Manchester United Banter Archive November 29 2017

 

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29 Nov 2017 23:45:52
Lads you need to go on the city page with all the city posts.
They could do with a few posters on there as the page is a bit down on numbers just like their stadium.

Believable4 Unbelievable0

30 Nov 2017 08:02:53
My missus asked me whey are you swearing at 6am, said I just saw that city won in the 99th minute again. Making me sick!

I really do hope it's a case of them using up their luck and peaking too soon. Can they really sustain this throughout a season?

Main thing is we can't let that gap any more than it is, and we MUST try and beat them at ot. Will give the the team and fans so much belief and knock city's wind out somewhat. We need to take matters into our own hands and it's about time we did.

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30 Nov 2017 09:15:25
Gor a second there i thought 'raver' had changed allegiances and joined the OT faithful.

Apologies rave 🤣

Yes mate we could knock the wind put of their sails and its a 6 pointer.

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30 Nov 2017 19:30:33
We need to attack them and bully their defence because they do look a bit vunerable on the break and at set pieces. I just don't want to see us putting a team and formation out to try and not get beat, when we should be going for it. If we want to catch them we've got to beat them.

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29 Nov 2017 22:06:07
Looks like city are having the luck as well as playing really well, looks like they're going to take some stopping (sadly)

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29 Nov 2017 21:28:36
Take a bow Wayne, world class.

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29 Nov 2017 21:36:39
I just can't help but feel happy for him, I know we've all slated him a bit over the last couple of years, but I still get that feeling of joy seeing him hit a hat trick and knock one in from 60 yards.

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29 Nov 2017 21:37:22
It's also oddly satisfying seeing moyes fail again.

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29 Nov 2017 22:04:03
City now using Fergie time to its full potential đź’©đź’©.

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30 Nov 2017 08:23:44
Some way to round of a Hat trick.

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29 Nov 2017 16:39:13
I don't think anyone is undervaluing City at all. They've massive strides in recent years to get to the position that they are in. It just looks more impressive because of how big the strides have been. They've had to do a lot to get that position and they've done it in a short time frame compared to how long it took us. But they've had unlimited funds to enable them to do it quicker. The point is what are we doing to keep pace? We've thrown a lot at the team with mixed results. But what are we doing in the background.

Believable1 Unbelievable1

29 Nov 2017 17:04:23
Mort
What would you like us to do?

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29 Nov 2017 21:00:19
Jred

I have given a comprehensive list more than once.

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29 Nov 2017 21:19:34
Where do you want to start Jred?

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30 Nov 2017 08:27:00
Going then what?
We have spent a kings ransom over the last 4 year, broke the world transfer record and appointed one of the top managers in the world .
Won 2 trophies last season, started the league great and the CL .


Spoilt man United fans?

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30 Nov 2017 08:35:59
City are playing great, top manager pep but are United really that bad?

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30 Nov 2017 09:54:11
Jred

How many times. Have a look at our facilities, stadium, training, youth facilities, interaction with local communities, links with local schools. Then take a look at what City have done, their burning ambition. Their (and our) work in the transfer market is only one part. I even read an interesting article about our use of social media being old fashioned and behind other clubs, that it seemed Utd were content to quote 600m followers but lacked a spark of originality. Where were United when City were attracting Pep? Sat deluding ourselves that Moyes and LvG were the answer. What was our transition plan? What was our long term club development plan? It looks like it was based on a bit of arrogance that relied on adding new sponsors and increasing the asset value. All the while City had a better all round plan and were implementing it.

How much have the Glazers spent on OT? The work done when they first came in was from money from the Plc. We have the same stands and every year or two when it gets mentioned the plans to develop the South stand get trotted out. Then disappear a few days later when people have mumbled approval but as yet it seems they aren’t going to do it. We have massive borrowing to fund the leveraged buyout so borrowing to build a stand isn’t perhaps first choice. We won’t go into finance but most people don’t understand net debt. Out of interest I walked down the street at the back of the South stand a couple of years ago, the one across the railway. There were houses for sale on the side of the road adjacent to the ground, were the club buying them? Not according to the locals, but maybe it has changed.

When it came to Hotel Football, the club didn’t do it, why? In fact they opposed it, maybe they didn’t think of it first, why? The club has been buying land apparently round OT for years but have done what with it? Inside there are the same facilities, same toilets, overcrowded overpriced bars. What new facilities have been added around the outside of the ground to look after fans? .

City have built an infrastructure whilst Utd looked for sponsors to make more money. The supporters blinkered problem is encapsulated in the focus on how much spent on transfer fees rather than building a better all round club.

Spoilt is something we were for many years with the trophies but looking at the club we relied on one man, with old style methods which meant when he left we were shattered, too reminiscent of Busby leaving. Where was the planning? We have been reeling from that and just about starting to steady the ship now. All the while City executed their plan and in what can only be described as arrogance, we sneered at the noisy neighbours. Spoilt? I started supporting in 68 and following the club was tough in the seventies so spoilt is not the word, frustrated by the ownership more like. Frustrated that we let this happen. Frustrated that the owners were allowed to mortgage the club to enable them to buy it, limiting our power for years, no value of course, as an example whilst City bought Aguero. Frustrated the club seems focussed on asset value rather than infrastructure improvement, that were are allegedly being flagged as an adult Disneyland.

We surrendered our natural advantage over City, now they are nearly as attractive a proposition as us and only arrogance will deny that. It’s down to senior figures at our club to stop looking at numbers and create a plan that puts us at the forefront of clubs not the nirvana of owners and accountants, the asset value league.

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30 Nov 2017 10:39:53
Again Redman you are comparing us to one team .
We have one of the best stadiums in the country, we continue to produce youth players at a time when very few are getting in to any of the top teams.
We out spend 99.9 % of teams in world football .
Reportedly have the highest wage bill in world football.

You are spitting the dummy out because 1 team city are doing better, what about all the other teams below us?
What about all the other team that aren't doing as well as us, haven't got the money we have etc

Spoilt fans only concerned with what we HAVEN'T got.

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30 Nov 2017 12:46:33
Hardly spoilt supporting through relegation

If you choose to ignore the power shift you are just another who is arrogant enough to think everything will just carry on as is. City don’t have the fan base but it is growing as they engage with the community while we ignore them.

Great stadium but what have the owners contributed to that? Paid the electric bill? It has not changed in what 24 years?

Up to you if you want to see it or not.

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30 Nov 2017 12:49:18
What i'd do is bring in a director of football to oversee the football side of things as we have slipped up in this area. Move Woody back to commercial an what he does best. Its too much of a job and too much power for one man. Also the clubs facilities need an upgrade. And expand the stadium. i'd like to see a more coordinated plan in loaning young players out for experience. There is more we could be doing. We've stood still whilst others have evolved.

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30 Nov 2017 13:12:20
Redman
Who is ignoring anything? We can't do anything to stop what city are doing, or psg or Barcelona and Madrid for that matter .

We are spending the cash backing the manager breaking transfer records play in a 80000 seater stadium .
Poor Man United our fans have it hard .

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30 Nov 2017 14:02:30
Jred

Tunnel vision only looking at transfer fees. You need to consider the bigger picture.

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30 Nov 2017 14:33:40
Which is what red man .
The club as a business is outstripping everyone out there this has been our best start to a season in years .
We are set up to be successful, unfortunately will don't have a god given right to be number one.

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30 Nov 2017 17:17:45
Jred

You are being dazzled by figures, the club has a great income stream, fantastic. The focus seems to be mainly improving the income stream and impressing the financial experts. The clubs asset value helps mainly the owners. Where is the rest of the plan or did you not understand the points in my main post.

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30 Nov 2017 18:05:58
Mort

Agree but I am wondering about the role of a Director of football and who would have the depth of experience to plan that widely. It would be an interesting choice of person.

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30 Nov 2017 18:12:52
Such as appointing supposedly the best manager in the world and spending over 300 mil in 12 month.
The club is making record profits, investing that in the team .

As a fan what is that you want .

Big stadium, record transfer big name players, big name manager .

What is that the likes of arsenal stoke Chelsea palace all the other clubs have that poor old United don't? .

Hard work being a United fan.

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30 Nov 2017 18:24:00
Could not agree more RedMan.

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30 Nov 2017 18:34:54
No wonder United fans get a bad name .
The moment a team does what we have been doing for years the dummys are out .
Poor United.

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30 Nov 2017 19:27:48
Jred

You still just don’t get it

You said “the moment a team does what we have been doing for years”, the point is we haven’t. It’s not just spending, you are too focussed on transfer money, even so the owners only released the purse strings about three years ago. There was no value before. My point is about infrastructure development and integrating the club with the community, building a structure to best take the club forward. Look at the bigger picture.

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30 Nov 2017 19:38:54
The bigger picture red man is that we are a global brand, one of if not the biggest clubs in the world .
And in the modern game that is taking the club forward .
The rest is nice to have, although our infrastructure is up there development is improving while unfortunatly becoming less important in the modern game.

It's a money game now, a global game whether you like it or not and will become more so when a European league kicks off .

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30 Nov 2017 19:43:53
Man United is bigger than Manchester, football is a global business now.
Times are a changing .

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29 Nov 2017 12:22:36
As GDS has pointed out below, we now have our "best goal difference at this stage in a season since 2000". AJH suggests that "in any other year. we would win the league", were it not for City's record-breaking start. Others complain about our pragmatic style of play, look around at other clubs' squads and see them as stronger than our own; they regret bitterly never having tried to snatch Pep Guardiola from Bayern ourselves. So far ahead are Manchester City according to some - not only in terms of manager, style, squad-strength, but in terms of youth development, general infrastructure also - that we should give up all hope of winning the league title in the near future. At the very least until Pep leaves town.

Manchester City under Guardiola are yet to win anything. Not a Charity Shield, not a League Cup, not a Johnstone's Paint Trophy. Not a bean. I, like most people, do not believe we will be able to say this much longer, but it is not nothing. Remaining trophyless is not insignificant.

Jose Mourinho arrived last summer, and in the final few weeks of his first season in charge forged what can only be described as a winning mentality in a team that, though not entirely his own, was beginning to exhibit some of his own characteristics. This old cliche is the only suitable way of explaining what occured between the slightly fortunate League Cup final win against Southampton and the steamroller-ing of Ajax in Stockholm. In retrospect that Europa League win can appear run-of-the-mill, easy as pie, only to be expected. But did any top team in europe play a single match last season under more pressure than United were under in the final stages of that tournament? Having won nothing of significance since Sir Alex Ferguson had left? Facing the prospect of a third campaign from four outside the Champions' League? Imagine the mood right now, in and around one of the three biggest clubs in the world, had we not won that evening. Imagine the fans' mood, the media scrutiny, Mourinho's sanity levels. Would Mourinho be here? Would Lukaku? Matic? De Gea?

Winning when it really really really matters is a skill that only the very best sportspeople ever learn. It is what is missing at Tottenham, where an exciting young team with an exciting young manager look set to have an Arsenal-like season of missed opportunity. It is what is missing at Liverpool, where an enviable front four play on occasion irresistable attacking football under animated sockpuppet Jurgen Klopp. Arsenal lost the same "it" some time last decade.

Manchester City may be different. I think they probably are. They certainly have all the necessary constituent parts: the proven winner on the sidelines; the Agueros, the Kompanys who have been there and done it before in light blue; the squad bristling with speed, menace, talent.

But. But, they haven't done it quite yet. They haven't quite tipped over the top. They haven't come up against a single, defining moment and won through.

Perhaps they won't need to. Perhaps that leap has been made in their minds already on the training ground. Perhaps we will look back and see that winning mentality had developed slowly, bit by bit, over the course of the season - away at Leicester, away at Huddersfield last Sunday, in their reaction to a first defeat. Perhaps this season will be one long victory parade.

That is a very rare thing however. Very rare that a team flies free of the pack at such an early stage and stays there, never gets dragged back down to earth; never has to fight its way back up. If it does come to that - to grappling in the dirt - I think I know which team I would back to come out on top. And I think I know which manager I would prefer to lead the fight.

Believable9 Unbelievable1

29 Nov 2017 12:43:14
Good post but in short? city look the
Real deal to me.

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29 Nov 2017 13:35:58
Being a nattering nabob of negativity, I agree that we are well behind City at the moment as far as overall talent is concerned. That is to be expected. We are only now starting to restore the level of quality required to compete consistently at the top levels after a decade of squad deterioration in the height of the Glazer debt servicing years and the inadequacy of SAF's first two successors. December is a big month for us, starting this weekend at Arsenal followed by the first derby of the season, and then a potentially tricky away game at West Brom. One way or another statements will be made.

On a very positive note we are on pace to score more than 80 goals this season compared to 64,62,49,52 in the previous 4 seasons. We are on a good trend. As brilliant as City may be this year, no team is invincible. Other teams make adjustments. A couple more top players added to the squad could well see us competing with them on equal footing, even if sometimes it may seem the dominant factor is a battle between brain and brawn.

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29 Nov 2017 14:24:10
I agree, Man City look like the real deal. But I'm not giving up hope just yet.

One advantage I think City have over us, which I didn't mention above, is the greater sense of positivity their fans seem have at the moment. I'm not blaming the more "negative" fans on here, obviously, and believe that there are many understandable reasons why our team are perhaps not being as well supported as City's right now (historical reasons related to playing style etc. ) I'm not even saying that it can't change quite quickly - that a couple of defeats couldn't dint City's sense of optimism. What I am saying, however, is that it might make a difference to whether we can overhaul them in the end, to whether we can take advantage of any small fragility of mindset that surfaces if they trip up at all. Over the years, I have seen the crowd at Old Trafford drag the team over the line in tight games countless times. More and more in the last few seasons, there is a sense that the crowd is capable of that only in very special circumstances - that more and more it is the fans that rely on the team to inspire them.

I admit that it is a bit of a chicken and egg thing, that team performance feeds into fan enthusiasm and vice versa, that there is a constant flux of positivity/ negativity/ optimism/ entitlement, but why not do everything you can, as a fan, to make your season a success?

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29 Nov 2017 14:31:28
I should point out that there is a massive difference between grumbling on a forum, or to your mates before the game (I am as guilty of this as anyone - I think of myself as a realist when it comes to football, but those who go with me to matches would definitely call me a pessimist! ), and grumbling on the terraces, getting on the backs of individual players, groaning at a loose pass when the chips are down. I think you can criticise all you like if in the stadium you offer nothing but positivity and support.

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29 Nov 2017 14:24:10
I agree, Man City look like the real deal. But I'm not giving up hope just yet.

One advantage I think City have over us, which I didn't mention above, is the greater sense of positivity their fans seem have at the moment. I'm not blaming the more "negative" fans on here, obviously, and believe that there are many understandable reasons why our team are perhaps not being as well supported as City's right now (historical reasons related to playing style etc. ) I'm not even saying that it can't change quite quickly - that a couple of defeats couldn't dint City's sense of optimism. What I am saying, however, is that it might make a difference to whether we can overhaul them in the end, to whether we can take advantage of any small fragility of mindset that surfaces if they trip up at all. Over the years, I have seen the crowd at Old Trafford drag the team over the line in tight games countless times. More and more in the last few seasons, there is a sense that the crowd is capable of that only in very special circumstances - that more and more it is the fans that rely on the team to inspire them.

I admit that it is a bit of a chicken and egg thing, that team performance feeds into fan enthusiasm and vice versa, that there is a constant flux of positivity/ negativity/ optimism/ entitlement, but why not do everything you can, as a fan, to make your season a success?

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29 Nov 2017 15:06:05
I haven't given up hope either but not every team can be number one .
I can rember Ronaldo Rooney and co coming up against peps very very good Barcelona and coming of a poor second .09 and 11
Hats of to barce, great United team but it was a better barce one .

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29 Nov 2017 21:39:08
No one is giving up Jeff. We are merely stating that city as a club, team and manager are much better run at present. I think Mourinho said as much in pre season with the debacle concerning transfers. He's also trying to change the youth set up and our scouting.
Jred made a very good point that we are now paying for the years of under investment when the glazers took over.
City will not suddenly roll over and collapse. It's not going to happen. In fact, if we lose against Arsenal and they win at the weekend, they could be 11 points ahead by 2nd of December. Something special is happening across the city and we need to understand this and act accordingly.
On the points regarding our fans, the atmosphere at OT has been dreadful recently and I stand in the singing stand! Scoreboard end are as quiet as a library, and the other stands apart from the Stretford End are not much better. We all need to up our game.

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29 Nov 2017 12:00:06
Great win yesterday I was quite apprehensive going into this game expecting us to draw. Some really good performances from young, Lindelof, martial and Lingard. Never been lingard’s biggest fan but I think he might just be winning me over. His movement is fantastic and This aspect of his game offers a different dimension to our attack. Most of our attackers want ball to feet but he is willing to run the hard and clever lines to pull defenders out of position and creating space for martial and others.

Now I just wanted to touch on big rom. Now I will be the first to confess that I preferred is to sign morata in the summer and I believe he is a superior technical footballer who would have linked very well with the players we already have. And lukaku’s dip in form and confidence in fromt of goal has not been ideal and this was evident with that miss of the open goal. But I actually think his general overall play and build up play has improved massively since he has joined us. He is clearly working much harder and e has added a fair few assists to his game in recent weeks. He is puttting himself about and making things happen and I actually think that he is a major contributor to why we are seeing a much more potent attack with martial flourishing. Zlatan was static last year and stifled the attackers (although he was prolific) whereas this year we are breaking at pass and are very clinical.

My point is although rom looks a bit nervy in front of goal, he is actually influencing the game through assists and work rate around the pitch and has developed his overall game massively since joining from Everton. His turn and pass to Lingard for the first goal was very good and I am pleased to see us score 4 goals and not even have him on the score sheet. Shows we have others who can contribute. He will get out of this rut and get scoring again. And when he does, we will be difficult to play against for any team.

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29 Nov 2017 12:44:14
Rom put a shift in goals will come.

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29 Nov 2017 08:41:17
Who do you guys think Mou wants for the right? Willian will be difficult and most of the other options - perisic, bale etc. are better on the left.

Believable0 Unbelievable3

29 Nov 2017 10:08:26
Would like willian tbh.

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29 Nov 2017 08:01:48
{Ed's Note - we have posted a new article entitled, Premier League Match Preview Wednesday 29th November 2017

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