Manchester United Banter Archive September 29 2018

29 Sep 2018 21:14:45
I'm not one to call for a manager to go, but enough now. Mourinho doesn't want to be here, as per Ed002, and never really did. I never wanted the guy, and said before we sacked LVG that we'd end up the same as all his clubs, fighting and a mess, if he did come in. Even so I have, and will, support the team, but its only going to get worse if he stays.

He is making our club a laughing stock, and a joke. It is unacceptable and it needs to end.

Someone asked should we let Carrick and McKenna take over for the season, and I would say why not. Will they do any worse than we are right now or will likely continue to do?

We then need to concentrate the next few months on finally getting the DOF we need, and getting Woodward as far from footballing decisions as possible. He is great at what he should be doing, but football isn't his strong point. The DOF can then spend January to May deciding who the next permanent manager is and working on getting them in, as well as looking at the squad and working on who is to leave and who is to come in.

First out need to be Pogba and Martial. I don't care what they think of Mourinho, I care that they won't give 100% for the fans whilst picking up great wages. No one is bigger than the club, so go in January, we'll be no worse off giving a few youngsters extra time in the first team squad.

We can get to where City/ Liverpool are with a couple of years of planning, but carrying on as we are isn't going to do that, we will just fall further. The club need some balls and to do it now. They were stupid enough to give the contract, so need to bite the bullet and accept they were stupid.

Will it happen? Probably not yet, but it is coming, I have no doubt.

Any way, that is my little input. Now back to the shadows :-) .

29 Sep 2018 22:45:05
Good post that Brendan - honest but also balanced.

29 Sep 2018 19:53:10
So I'm not the kind of guy who wants people to lose their job but I do believe that any job is a privilege and you should perform to your best whatever your role.

The players aren't performing. They have not turned bad over night. This has been a gradual demise. At preseason JM said that the season is over (in a round about way) . He's playing weird games with woodworm by playing midfielders in defence, he's publicly slating players. Basically he's doing everything wrong when you are managing a team low in confidence.

Not knocking Scott Mctominay but he shouldn't be anywhere near starting for us. The manager should be motivating all players but especially the better ones. pogba, Sanchez, Bailly, Lukaku. Why is he praising Scott mctominay? A motivated mcT isn't going to win a game. A motivated Pogba, Sanchez etc are. This is blatant poor management.

The game has moved on and JM has not adapted. Attack will always beat defence. I hate to say this but he needs to go. We need to lay the foundations, I'm used to not winning trophies now ("real" ones) so I can do with another couple of seasons of the same. What I can't deal with is these performances and no progress, no identity, no enthusiasm, just nothing.

I'm saying what the majority are saying now, DOF is a priority, then a coach that has ideas and plays attacking football. I just want progress and I want to enjoy my team playing football. I feel bad for my son if he is growing up supporting this kind of football.

Views?

29 Sep 2018 20:33:24
Yep. What you said. Some of these posts are saving me a lot of time and effort :)

30 Sep 2018 08:26:49
We regressed over the course of last season and have been awful at the start of this season.
It's getting worse not better which is a major concern and there are clearly issues behind the scenes .
Mc Tom and Herrera have now been picked ahead of bailly at cb so the writing is on the wall there.

Interesting that Ferdinand thinks pogba is talking for and on behalf of the players?

Third season kicking in again?

29 Sep 2018 19:31:06
Well, at least we're finally first on the match of the day running order!

29 Sep 2018 17:23:20
The players are as much to blame as Jose but the buck stops with him. So many of them aren't putting in the effort. There is zero pressing or closing down. There is no urgency or clear attacking plan. Matic is ambling about the place in a slow jog and he's supposed to be our midfield leader. Everything is slow, lacking vision and apathetic. They look like they don't care. What was he thinking putting McTominay centre half? Bizarre. It's like something a spoilt child would do; you didn't buy me the centre back I wanted so look what I have to do now? I think it's broken now and Jose's position is untenable. He probably didn't get the support he wanted in terms of signings but he hasn't improved any of his players bar maybe Lingard who didn't make the squad today. He's succeeded in alienating a large portion of his players and slagged off too many of them publicly. It's become a complete mess. I can't see any way back from this. How many of our players would get into the Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Spurs team? Apart from De Gea not many if any. Root and branch restructuring required.

29 Sep 2018 18:05:06
Zero effort closing down? No pressing? Come on DSG, do you think if the players were trained and instructed to press or stay close to their opponents they wouldn't?


Mourinho orders them to stand off and go on the counter.


Why do you think every team from Wolves to Derby to Tottenham all look like the all mighty Barcelona when we play them?


Are you trying to tell me that all these years Mourinho and his coaching haven't realized it or that they instructed the players to do so but the players refused or are you insinuating that it's the players' prerogative to press or not press during the game?


Are they not given tactical instructions based on opponent scouting by the coaching team before and during the game?


Why does the manager and his coaching team are on the touchline and have the ability to change personnel, formation or tactics in-game?

Lol.

29 Sep 2018 18:19:24
It is like he wants to be sacked to get a payout.

He doesn't want to be here anyway so why have someone that isn't committed 100 percent

People have been debating if a new manager would change the way the players are working well just look at hazard. New manager and he is on fire.

It's only going to get worse.

I can't see where and when our next win will come from

The football is dated and slow and tbh it's getting tiring saying the same thing every week.

29 Sep 2018 18:32:42
There were 8 players behind the ball and no one pressing for most of the game. These players were good when they were at their previous clubs so I can't blame them anymore for their form. Lukaku was constantly among the top scorers when at everton and now he can't get score at all. The players are sent with the instruction of not conceding and it was working until other teams realized and they could break us even with a little pressure and we don't exactly have fast players for counter attack. Every match seems like we are playing against City or Liverpool, no team is afraid of us as they know that defence is the priority. It's just down to Jose from team selection to our playing style. These same players will look world class under some other manager.

29 Sep 2018 20:03:06
Yaz

What on earth are you talking about? Clearly the coaches are not telling the players to saunter around the pitch and not bother to win the ball back.

It isn't a tactical issue of high press versus low press. The players are simply not putting the effort in.

Jose has lost the players, even the crowd today were quiet. Woody created this situation by not backing jose in market. But I can't see how Jose can come back from this.

29 Sep 2018 21:12:01
They are told to only mark when players are within certain territories.

Or is zonal marking for which Mourinho is fabled a new concept to you?


Players will fall back into a predefined shape and distance trying to constric their opposition attack without committing (pressing) and losing shape.

That's why when any of out players chases down, he suffers and stops because others don't. They are firmly rooted.


When ball is won, a worked out counter attack pattern ensues.


As for the pressing, ironically, Mourinho only tries that against big teams -

Sometimes I wonder if people only watch games for the sake of watching. SMH They are told to only mark when players are within certain territories.

Or is zonal marking for which Mourinho is fabled a new concept to you?


Players will fall back into a predefined shape and distance trying to constric their opposition attack without committing (pressing) and losing shape.

That's why when any of out players chases down, he suffers and stops because others don't. They are firmly rooted.


When ball is won, a worked out counter attack pattern ensues.


As for the pressing, ironically, Mourinho only tries that against big teams -

Sometimes I wonder if people only watch games for the sake of watching. SMH.

29 Sep 2018 21:47:29
Jose’s attitude is you can’t make mistakes if you don’t have the ball.
Says it all really that’s why they don’t high press.

29 Sep 2018 23:16:17
On the plus side you will probably get tonked by city and Chelsea then change manager in time to play and beat us 🤦🏻‍♂️.

30 Sep 2018 08:25:49
Lukaku has 19 goals in his last 17 games for Belgium it's almost like he is a decent player.

29 Sep 2018 16:18:23
Been an avid backer of Jose since day one but it's just not working out and it won't, i finally accept it. Really wanted it to work out but it's time to end this relationship.

Question for Eds/ Posters, hypothetically, if he leaves today, who do we bring in? Even on an interim basis? But we can't continue like this for the remainder of the season, that's for sure.

Jose will leave, but so do many of these players, some of them have been through 3 different managers post Fergie but are still playing poor and getting away with it, far too many players either not good enough or just not playing for the club. Like Ed002 says, we need a suitable director coming in for one, we have to have a proper succession plan now. Manager, player recruitment all needs to be in tandem with each other.

Let's just hope we can salvage/ scrape top 4 somehow, though it'll be ridiculously hard, can't bare not being in the CL.

{Ed001's Note - it would depend on the director imo. You need him to complement and fit in together. Appoint the director, then bring in the manager that fits with him. I do think you need to take a different tack from the last 3 though. Go for a coach with fresh ideas, someone who will try something new, rather than older managers who are past their best.}

29 Sep 2018 16:57:24
Good post Scholes. Echo my views exactly. Best way forward is to part ways with the manager now. It’s clear the he’s lost the players and he cannot get a tune out of them. I really have no clue who we can/ should go after. My top 5 candidates would be the following:

(1) Poch (unavailable)
(2) zidane (have my doubts but would be happy to see him)
(3) jardim (Monaco have only won once all season so he could perhaps be attainable - I’m a big fan)
(4) Nagelsmann (very promising but too early perhaps. Destined for Bayern)
(5) Howe (fear it may be a Moyes type signing)

Ed is right, a director of football is so important, and essentially will dictate the way we go. Howe and Nagelsmann would need a dof in particular. Think we may see zidane join. He is exactly the sort of manager Woodward would go for (ie big name) . Things are really bad at the moment. Waiting to sack Jose is a very dangerous tactic. We need a resolution quickly and if that means paying a large compensation package to Jose, then so be it. Next out the door - pogba. He’s a bad influence and I don’t want him anywhere near our club.

29 Sep 2018 17:04:35
The season is gone and I don't expect anyone to come in and turn it around within a few months. So I would like to have Zidane as the interim manager. We are anyways boring to watch and there are no attack minded managers available who can change everything overnight. Atleast with Zidane players like Dalot, Shaw, Rashford, Martial etc will become better players. You can say whatever you want about his inexperience and playing style but he's a good coach and his work on the field will make many players better which would be good for us in the future. He should be given contract till the end of the season and then decide whether to continue with him. But I doubt he would be ready for any such arrangement.

29 Sep 2018 17:08:14
We've supposedly been trying to hire one since 2016. How hard is it? Wages can't be a hold up. So is it the definition of the job?

If we can't get this sorted out how are to have confidence in them sorting this out.

29 Sep 2018 17:16:10
Completely agree Ed001.

The common denominator in our three post-Fergie appointments is that they are managers stuck in outdated styles. Moyes has been found out everywhere since he left Everton. Van Gaal was a spent force long before he came to us. And Jose isn’t able to adapt to a footballing world that has moved on from his glory days.

We need to look for a young manager with the drive, ambition and ideas to catch up with the best in Europe. I don’t know how much longer Jose will stay in a job but it’s painful to watch this inevitable implosion.

29 Sep 2018 17:16:21
Thanks Ed, in your opinion, do you think a director will be appointed before the summer window?

{Ed001's Note - normally I would say yes, but Woodward does not seem to have a clue what he is doing with the football side, so I don't know.}

29 Sep 2018 17:17:56
Zidane is exactly what woody will go for. Big name. But would it work?

29 Sep 2018 17:44:21
Woodward IS clueless, doesn't have a clue. And Sailor, Zidane is the only one available, out of a job but i wouldn't want him, interim: yes. But doubt he'd take the role for only 7/ 8 months of the season.

29 Sep 2018 17:51:36
Id go giggs as interim. Give us chance to plan for someone else if it doesn't work out.

29 Sep 2018 18:11:35
We still have a manager but today did feel like a watershed and it wouldn’t surprise me if the club made a decision. However, the idea of Zidane is poor and sounds like a name to suit the share price rather than the right manager of United. If and it is a big if United make a change now then I would go for Wenger as interim, if available until the end of the season.

29 Sep 2018 18:20:55
Hello ed001. I saw you mentioned there is a lot of money tied in Jose contact. I just wanted to ask if this would mean we are stuck with him how much ever the situation gets worse or things could change.

{Ed001's Note - it depends how bad things get. They don't want to pay it up unless they have to.}

29 Sep 2018 19:14:43
How does a termination of a contract work, as if a contract had to be paid in full then why terminate it . Can a manager who is removed from duties but still paid seek another job or could a club argue we are still paying him and he still has a contract unless a compromise is reached that means the club terminate the contract for an agreed settlement which will be at a saving to the amount owed but free the manager to seek other employment . The manager could always sit tight tho I suppose . Not sure how it works though if anyone has knowledge.

29 Sep 2018 19:16:07
Never said it before but Jose needs to be moved on.

The Jose and Pogba saga is dragging the team and the club through the dirt.
A united dressing room all playing for the manager would not be losing to West Ham and Brighton.

Yes we don’t have the players to match City and Liverpool but we have good players that are capable of sitting just below the top 2 and 3.

We need a DoF and then a head coach to take football matters totally away from Woodward.

29 Sep 2018 19:28:55
Laurent Blanc's available I think, (as well as Big Sam), might be an option if Mourinho goes, which I think he will now. Some very odd team tactics today, if you can call them that. There's no joy at all. Such dour, miserable football.
I was hoping Mourinho would get things right, get himself right but it looks beyond him and everything seems to be falling apart. Clubs a bit of a shambles at the moment though, so definitely not all his fault but he hasn't done himself any favours. Needs a good performance and result Tuesday or that could be that.

29 Sep 2018 18:39:48
Ed001, do you have any idea why they extended Jose’s contract earlier this year? Just seemed like a completely unnecessary thing to do.

{Ed001's Note - because Ed Woodward deemed it a good idea. I believe his intention was similar to the one that saw Ferguson backed in the early days, to send a signal to the players that the manager would be chosen over them.}

29 Sep 2018 18:55:03
Do you think Giggs would leave his post FZZ? Managing his country and it would only be on an interim basis? Also, just to confirm, Zorc is only leaving Dortmund when his contract expires, in 2021 Ed?

{Ed001's Note - I think so, though he might have a year option, I am not sure.}

29 Sep 2018 20:11:10
Doubt we'll have a director even in 2021 Ed, #ZidaneOut will be trending then 😂.

29 Sep 2018 20:36:50
Do you know, Ed001, if the contract extension was something José actively sought out, or was it all Woodward's idea? Cheers.

{Ed001's Note - I don't actually know sorry. Probably better directing that at Ed002 mate. He might know.}

30 Sep 2018 08:22:39
Young manager with modern ideas.

30 Sep 2018 08:24:52
That would be like fergy taken over at arsenal.

29 Sep 2018 14:24:55
It's not doom and gloom, we've lost under Fergie too.
This is the type of excuse we use this days.

Shame.

{Ed025's Note - i tell you what its not SMP...good enough!..

29 Sep 2018 14:28:17
The excuse would be that this team played a draw with Chelsea last week. So we were supposed to get beaten.

29 Sep 2018 14:30:27
Time for a change.

29 Sep 2018 14:37:17
Park obviously our players would be changing their diapers after rubbishting for 90 minutes.

29 Sep 2018 14:38:23
Not near good enough. time to go jose. your time is up. team selection and tactics are unbelievable.
I hope someone at the club has a pair and tells him not good enough. Time to go.

29 Sep 2018 14:51:37
Yes leahy but unfortunately it's the players who have the balls and are telling him he's not good enough.

29 Sep 2018 15:02:28
Jose ought to be sacked but if it's at all possible he should be followed by a number of the clowns masquerading as footballers.

29 Sep 2018 14:57:04
We are laughing stock.
I just can’t figure it out how can we be this bad?

29 Sep 2018 15:14:10
For me, this all started with Woodward. He hired a man known for buying rather than building then when things weren't going well he refused to back the manager. But Jose and the team have a responsibility. They shouldn't take their problems onto the pitch. Very unprofessional and not United. Pogba, Jose and Woodward have to go and for a few seasons, silverware will have to be forgotten about. The rot really is that deep.

29 Sep 2018 15:38:54
I've no confidence in woody getting the next one right an we'll be here again in 2 years time.

29 Sep 2018 16:06:03
You can question the players, you can question Woodward, but we’re into Mourinho’s third season and still have no style of play that i can see and that’s some indictment of him .
Seems to me his way of doing things has had its day, deep down he knows it but he’s got nothing else . We can’t get rid of a whole squad of players so the manager needs to be the one to go.

29 Sep 2018 17:02:17
No ones saying Jose shouldn't be going but questions do have to ne asked of the players. Underperforming for one manager is bad enough but for 3 means questions have to be asked.

29 Sep 2018 12:32:35
Does anyone know why Jose thinks playing midfield players, with no experience of playing in a back three, in a back three is a good idea?

29 Sep 2018 13:22:00
Simply to make a point “ I needed a center half and did not get one”. José is a complete tool.

29 Sep 2018 16:18:07
Has got a very good cb sat on his arse on the bench he had a bad game and got dropped.

29 Sep 2018 07:29:01
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 29th September 2018

29 Sep 2018 12:15:15
That police story is horrendous! I was thinking that can't possibly be true until charges were dropped against him because of video evidence, scary to think if there wasn't video evidence he might of been the one getting charged! I wonder how often police abuse their authority like that?

29 Sep 2018 14:26:15
All the time, Eden 😁.