Manchester United Banter Archive July 30 2012

 

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30 Jul 2012 23:32:38
Oh dear, oh dear.....

The Glazers have set the club to list on the NYSE under the ticker 'MANU'.....

What are they doing to themselves, this will not help them, with the supporters, one bit.

MPez

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How about the fact that they are only using £73m on the debt and the rest goes to them? F**kin vermin s**m.

G.A.G.U.S

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Have i got this wrong? Because I'm no financial wizard, but doesn't £73m pay off more than 10% of the debt?
Mitch.

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Am I wrong in saying this, but if they keep selling 10 per cent chunks like this and 73m go's to paying the debt off we owe close to 500m, they only need to sell 70 per cent of the club and they will pocket around 800m and the debt will be cleared and they will still own 30 per cent.

I think this could be the Glazers end game mate, walk away with a massive profit on their investment. Be honest how many people on their own is there out there who can stump up 1.6 billion quid to buy United, not many I can assure you. Doing it this way the Glazers get their sale and massive profit and we end up debt free.

Sounds like the end is nigh to me. Onwards and Upwards

Mike the Moston Red

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Arsenal fan here,i dont know much about the glaziers or finance,but like a lot of you i watched that program about the glaziers a couple of years ago and their financial situation back then was a bit shakey,since then the world economy has gotten worse,so i was thinking,they are being very shrewed with this share offer.they are taking money for themselves to prop up their shakey business empire,also paying of some dept to keep the banks happy.but just in case the banks try to do a liverpool senario on them in the future they are covering themselves by bringing other independant sharholders into the club to prevent a liverpool senario.after all a new prospective buyer would have to offer a price per share wich is acceptable to the shareholders i would have thought therefore if the worst happened to the the glaziers they would be covered against what happened to hicks and gillet and would walk away with 10s of millions if not 100s.just my theory,prob totally wrong but hey ho
trev the gooner

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And just like that......the eyes begin to open.

RED_SKY

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Mike The Moston Red

I think we are something like £423million in debt so the Glazers would probably only have to sell 60% of the club but you're absolutely right. We were always going to see the Glazers take money out of the club before they sold up so this is no great surprise and if this is what it takes (the Glazers lining their own pockets) to get them out of the club sooner rather than later and make us debt free then so be it.

TK-Red

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Trev, with all due respect you do not know what you are talking about. United do not owe the banks a single penny. United currently pay bondholders 8% interest every year and the debt is the bonds. (currently £423m), after £75m pay down will be around £350m. So debt is being reduced, but not as quick as us fans would like.

Also United are in no danger of going bust or going into administration, we are very strong financially in that respect The issue us fans have is do we have enough cash to be competitive in the market with the big spenders like City/Chelsea etc. One thing for sure is that we are still and will remain far more competitive than Arsenal. Our gross debt will be around £350m, yours is around £250m, but we have a much bigger income than yourselves.

Sydney!

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Like i said sydney i dont know much about finances.but i do know arsenal dept is around 200m and utds around 450m.the main difference is arsenal invested in the club by building a new stadium therefore arsenal have a tangible asset for the money.utds dept has been accrewed to service the dept of the glaziers caused by the purchase of utd and their failing business empire.its all about value for money sydney and not having ticking financial time bombs further up the road that you will have to deal with later
trev the gooner

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30 Jul 2012 23:01:14
Now I don't claim to understand all how it works but its came out tonight on quite a few reports the glazer leeches was only goin pay back only 73m of the debt with what they raised by the floation the rest was for themselves!if anybody in some deluded way think there good for Utd wakey wakey!iv been goin see Utd for 23 yrs&yes fergie for me walks on water but if any of you don't think he's a liar wake up!he's tryin to cover the mess were in,yes he can't come out&jus say but he's lies aint workin anymore! Gill for 2 yrs money is not an issue then now its admitted floatation is because debt cud effect ability to compete!(Gill shown up lies) fergie no value u market total b*******,who does he think believes that! Benzema,Silva 2 yrs watched&hadnt got the cash! Some will shout Moura,RVP who u think gona pay for them in long run!

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Didn't we offer the same as real for benzema but he wanted to join them instead?

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I dont think that was his point.

Cban

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We refused to go to the price Real paid for Benzema and stopped about two to three million short. The price was only about £35m but it was not deemed value

Red Man

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And finally.......the eyes begin to open.

We have NO MONEY. Stop with your deluded transfer rumours, we have NO MONEY.

Can this be any clearer?

Gill has been lying to you.

Our hero, SAF, has been lying to you.

Our club is in deep, deep trouble.

RED_SKY

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As an EMPLOYEE of man united , even if this stuff u are saying is true I don't know, how could he possibly come out and say it, not just for keeping his job but for keeping the peace AND for making the club an attractive place to work and support.... Use your brains a bit man!

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30 Jul 2012 21:36:09
Man United launches New York Stock Exchange listing. Shares set to start between $16 and $20

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19057547

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Only half the money going towards the debt, the rest directly into their thieving pockets. They've lied to supporters again, and shown their true colours. But will this convince people that they have no intention of putting anything back into the club and every intention of fleecing us for everything we've got? Not a chance.

Danny Pughnited

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30 Jul 2012 21:48:55
IPO must have been cancelled following the agreement of the new Chevrolet shirt deal. Hopefully any upfront payments received will be invested to improve the team rather the club losing income to pay of the debt as the teams performance declines.

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This could be the worse timed post ever
jred

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30 Jul 2012 20:45:25
Sao Paolo have completed the signing of 18 year old attacking midfielder, Ademilson. Looks like this is a direct replacement of Lucas Moura. He plays exactly in the same position. This is being widely reported in Brazil. Maybe Lucas is off either to United, Madrid or Inter.

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Personally i can't see Lucas going to RM or Inter. It's been reported that Inter have agreed a fee for Ayew and RM are struggling to get the money for Modric by offering players aswell.

Lewis.

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This guy admielson has been at the sao paulo academy for couple of years . he made his debut in february
he is not a new signing

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I don't think RM don't have the money, but they're not willing to pay the rediculous fee that is one modric. Heard they have given up and are going for Witsel for 31m if true then surely Tottenham are asking for 40m?

Kai

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Am pretty sure Madrid can afford both Modric and Moura, especially if they sell a couple of their fringe players....they probably just believe Modric's overvalued.

Millz

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30 Jul 2012 20:17:03
chevrolet? seriously? don`t care how much it`s worth, do we really want a budget car brand on our shirts? we`ll be a laughing stock!

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Scouse.

G.A.G.U.S

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Are you serious, boy AIG was a great company, how was Sharp? The largest shirt sponsorship in the world and you complain.

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Not sure what's to laugh about by having the biggest shirt sponsorship deal in the world...

rpc

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You co.k my wifes got a chevrolet and it's great
ARB

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Are you one of these fans who is also going to moan when we sign Lucas Moura or RVP? Or when we win the PL but ''should have won the champions league too?''...or maybe when the club makes millions after it gets floated on the stock exchange and gets rid of some of the debt? Which, by the way, is what this sponsorship deal is going to do. Chevrolet are owned by General Motors...who have many fingers in many pies and make billions every year...some of which is now going to be directed at making the club better...because when we look bad, they look bad. So grow up no name, it's more than just a name on a shirt.

Andy

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It'll look a millions times better then the current Aon sponsership. I've always thought it has looked a bit childish.

Kai

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1957 Chevy.

Whistler.

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Wow, really got your backs up didn't I? It's not about the money, it's the name! Manchester United is one of the biggest and most respected clubs in the world so shouldn't we expect a similarly well respected name on our shirts? Chevrolet may be big and well known but it is certainly not highly respected.

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Ignore my part about making millions from the IPO...thanks Glazers...

Andy

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30 Jul 2012 16:47:13
Inter Milan are rumoured to have bid around £14 million for Andre Ayew, a fee that is apparently likely to be accepted. If it accepted then I think we may have missed a trick as Ayew is naturally left sided, something that I think we need more than anyone like Moura who is primarily right sided. Top quality left sided players are few and far between, you can only really think of Di Maria, Ayew, Gaitan - they are probably the only ones that would improve us that may be available.

RedDevil19

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Ive never wanted Ayew since we were linked a couple years ago. However this would eat up Inters funds and Moura would no longer have a chance of an Inter move.

Sydney!

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Afellay? Ribery? Carzola? Much better than Ayew and Gaitan! Bearing in mind we have Young, Nani and Kagawa who can all play on the left...not to forget Giggsy either. I don't think buying another left sided midfielder would really improve us...most of the problems on that side of the pitch lay with Evra last season.

Andy

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I like Ayew, I think he is a quality player. He is gonna be a great player, if he is available for 14m then that is value in the market.

Shappy

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RD19

I am not convinced about buying an out and out line hugging winger like you mentioned and I am far from convinced Gaitan would improve us at all. Valencia likes to play with width on the right but buying a similar left side player is restrictive to our style of play. I said some time ago we need to move away from 2 wingers and become more flexible in our style. We can afford Valencia because he adds pace and direct threat but I cannot see us being able to play with two wingers or in a flat 4 in midfield certainly not with the two central midfield we have and not against a central midfield 3. We need a different style , someone with more all round play, who can come in from the left but whist can be left footed doesn't have to be.
We appear to have identified Lucas but personally I think Muniain would fit better. Either way a successful buy of this type of player has to make Nani surplus.

Red Man

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'Red Man' - the thing is that we have no one that would be comfortable sticking to the touchline on the left. Giggs can no longer do it for more than a half. Nani and Young both cut inside. If we signed a proper left winger who stuck wide then we could have Nani right and a wider left midfielder which shows good balance instead of all of our width coming from the right side.

RedDevil19

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He is a good player, and we seem to be getting linekd to quite a few primarily wide players this summer and showign genuine interest. In this case however, though a good player I really dont think he offers anything different or of greater quality than we already have. Decent player though.
Invisible Stuey

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What is people's fascination with wide players on this site, we have plenty of good ones already.
I'm sorry if I sound like a broken record but the centre of the park is where we really need to look at.

Red Daz.

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RD19

I would not have Nani instead of Valencia and the fact SAF has given Valencia the number 7 shirt don't believe he sees it that way either.

My thoughts on Nani are well known, but if SAF is looking at a Lucas Rodriguez or Hazard type player I really cannot see that being in addition to Nani, can you?

I would choose Muniain because he has a real look of Iniesta. Nani has been far too inconsistent and we will see what SAF does.

Red Man

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Attacking wide men win you matches, as do good strikers... But in big tight games you can play 1 up top with 2/3 fast counter attacking wide men (3 if you play one down the centre) and cut teams to pieces on the break.

DodgyBanter

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I know they're not the same position, but his brother looks a much better prospect.

Sanshine

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"Redman"

We all know how you feel about Nani but i say at the start of the transfer window that Nani wont be leaving, now with only a month left, its looking more and more likely he ll stay.

Millz

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And just because fergy gave valencia the number 7 shirt, it doesnt mean he'll be first choice. Remind me again, who was the last number 7? am sure he was first choice.......oh wait.....

Millz

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30 Jul 2012 09:04:49
does anyone know anything about omar abdulrahman for uae he looks a good player what i have seen of him good passer vision got good skill wants to go forward attacking and gets back to help out just wondering what people thought

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I *think* the commentator yesterday a lot of big European clubs looked at him before he had two cruciate injuries in as many years.

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He didn't use the word big, he just said european clubs had taken up an interest before his two serious injuries.

fearny

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Yeah but he is still only 20 and wouldnt cost much, Looked decent yesterday anyway.

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Very intelligent player, GOod to watch

Cban

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30 Jul 2012 16:11:33
Does anyone know what the Chevrolet shirt deal is worth?

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Telegraph reporting they believe it's worth £28m a year (£200m over seven years). Other places saying £25m.

United - £28.6m
Barcelona - £25m
Bayern - £23m
Liverpool - £20m.

Sydney!

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About 25mil per season apparently.

Whistler.

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Cheers Syd, is the current 1 worth £20 per season with Aon?

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Reuters are saying the deal is not £25m, but £55m a season. That is massive. Lets not forget the £10m a season DHL sponsorship kicked in this season and the TV money will increase by a further £34m in a couple of years time. Imagine what the Nike deal will be worth?

Little chance of the Glazers going now lads, just hope this sponsorship will help with the IPO so we can bring our debt down.

Sydney!

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Think what we could of done without the Glazers. Can't believe someone was praising them on the commercial side of things,because those interest payments are great for us arn't they.

Red Daz.

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Sydney

It is another good selling point but not a reason why they won't sell.

The Glazers have always been in this for the payday when they sell , in other words the asset value more than the income. An increase in income is welcome but unless they can sell the shares and reduce the debt in time for the end of the bond period they have a problem.

This just gives them a better income stream making us slightly more attractive to buy, but not that much. There are bigger problems to be sorted

Nike may be a more interesting deal

Red Man

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Red Man, I hope you are correct. As soon as they sell the better. Can I ask what you mean by the Nike deal may be more interesting? Thanks.

Sydney!

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30 Jul 2012 15:35:08
What happened to fryers is he man utd players spurs free agent ? RK

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He went to Spurs but I think we get a small fee for him.

-JakeW

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30 Jul 2012 16:06:12
rasmus elm's, another thats gone somewhere else,
top player.

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Good player but would he have made us any better?doubtful,not really bothered hes gone elsewhere

phil

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30 Jul 2012 10:54:56
Starting to look more and more like we are in fact highly unlikely to sign any more players, let alone anyone who actually excites or is world class. Is this all just a lot of smoke and noise again to try and sell the unsold tickets or create buzz ahead of the now apparently postponed (failed) IPO ? Eds - can you confirm we are not just low-balling and hoping for a miracle rather than making any SERIOUS attempts to strengthen the weak and dying midfield that saw us embarrassed in the CL last year.

This is starting to look exactly like the pattern of last years transfer season only Sneijder is now Moura.
We always seem to fall short or fail to agree and that is starting to look like a deliberate tactic so that the fans can be appeased with another sob story of how it didnt quite happen, or that the demands were unreasonable etc etc etc.

Will we EVER strengthen the area that really really needs strengthening ??? Everyone can see it and last season it was so obvious so why arent we trying to buy for those areas - We can live without wingers and we can live without a left back but we cannot live with Ryan Giggs as a midfield general.

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Calm down, long way to go yet and Fergie has already said we are in for players. 'We are not sitting on our backsides'

So sit back and enjoy.

GDS

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Glazer Defence Squad activate, form of oxymoron.

The club assures you that we are not sitting on our backsides, please return to sitting on your backside. And remember to enjoy your consumption of [product title] Manchester United Football Franchise.

Glazer Defence Squad Away!

Danny Pughnited

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30 Jul 2012 15:21:00
is Van Persie slipping from our grasps?
just read Adebayor is about to sign for City, guess they will then push to sign RvP.

bad luck I guess, still hoping though, not for any amount but for the right amount he'd be an incredible asset

Jonny8

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Adebayor for City? Isnt he already a City player ;)

Devil for Life

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30 Jul 2012 15:20:02
Apparently Madrid are willing to pull out the Modric race after Witsel's performance against them in a friendly. Obviously they had known about Witsel before, but they may move for him now. Madrid are said to be willing to offer 33 Million Euros for Witsel and refuse to pay 40 Million Euros. Does this mean anything for us? Well I still think that if there is a possibility of signing Modric, we will try. I'd much rather have him than Moura or Van Persie and I'd be happy to see him line up alongside Carrick with Kagawa and Rooney up top. In the big games we could get Wanyama perhaps in there if he comes in, or Jones to break up the play in a midfield 3. Modric has been the central midfielder that I have wanted to see come in for sometime now, hopefully Madrid will pull out and we can do a deal.

RedDevil19

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I don't know how anyone could possibly know what RM want to pay Benfica for Witsel. I would imagine Mods will be a RM player pretty soon.

Sydney!

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Its true that no one could know, but nevertheless it makes an interesting read. We can only imagine haha.


RedDevil19

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Did you see the game? Witsel was great in the game but it was against a mostly second/third team. Only a few Madrid first teamers played. Benfica did smash them thou so wouldn't surprise me if they go for both and look to sell Sahin, Khadira (sp) and maybe 1 more to raise the funds to cover one of them.

Jono

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Khedira would be pricey if he were to become available! If Madrid do sign Witsel/Modric either Sahin, Khedira or Ozil will probably go...most likely Sahin. Hard to tell whether he'd go on a loan or a straight sale...given his lack of game time and injury! But he would definitely be worth a look.

Andy

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If the club pull out of a Modric deal due to the performance of a player they already were aware of it would be a bit of a mockery in terms of scouting and research wouldnt it? Id throw a hunch at it being press talk probably driven by his agent as well. Personally I dont think Witsel is good enough for one of the worlds top clubs, including us, seems to be flavour of the week though
Invisible STuey

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Ive been saying for ages that witsel is the real deal
should be our no1 target full stop

marlow

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30 Jul 2012 15:18:07
Portuguese newspaper A Bola claims Real Madrid have opened talks with Benfica over a staggering £31.3m deal, which, if completed, would become the most expensive in the history of the Lisbon side

If they were to get him and Modric then that is potentially 2 of the cm players we were looking at......

I know there is a whole month left and plenty of time to sign players (and some may be at olympics) but really hope fergie has someone lined up and we do not get to the end of the window and get the old story of we nearly signed him or him but wages were to much, agents fees were too much....

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Who are you talking about? gaitan? axel witsel? garcia?

Philiphs93

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30 Jul 2012 14:59:08
A question about van Persie for you guys. Do you really want him at the club? People have said that it would be a crime to miss out on him and let him go elsewhere, why? In my opinion he has had one good season, he will get injured again soon, his wages will be astronomical and has to resale value. Unfortunatly, football has become a business and resale values have to be looked at. We'd be getting poor value for money for him, as, in my opinion, he will be in the treatment room a lot. Also, do people want to push Kagawa out of his position? The whole point of signing Kagawa was that we would play a more modern formation and move away from 4-4-2 (or thats what we hoped) - but as soon as RVP is linked we'd be happy to push Kagawa into a position that is not his best and also carry on with the outdated 4-4-2 formation instead of perhaps a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3. Whilst he is a big name, I hope we are not sucked in by this as signing him causes more problems than it solves in my opinion. Someone like Lewandowski would be better as he would not throw his toys out the pram when he doesn't start games.

RedDevil19

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How many good seasons has lewandowski had? and he didnt exactly light up the euros. think he would just hamper welbecks progression. van persie is a player at the top of his game who welbeck n hernandez can learn from. we dont need another player for the future we need somebody for here and now

vinny

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I am still not convinced we are in for RVP. Can't see SAF shelling out 15m+ for a 29 y.o.

Pardoe

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So you would want Van Persie then vinny? I'm not saying I specifically want Lewandowski, but he wouldn't be a bad signing. Nevertheless, I think 3 strikes plus a young one is more than sufficient. I just want us to make the most of Kagawa.

RedDevil19

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Red devil 19

i think we need another striker if berba leaves and a choice between rvp and lewandowski, id choose rvp all day long. if another youngish striker were to come in then they would expect to play most games, whilst this is also true of rvp, i think he would be easier to rest for games in order to manage his past injuries, meaning more game time for welbeck especially. plus lewandowski coulnt lace rvp's boots

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I think people are forgetting that because of the departure of Barrios from Borussia Dortmund, Lewandowski will not be available to buy this season; regardless of whether or not we buy RVP. Lewandowski is their only proper striker I believe, so I doubt they would allow him to move this season.

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30 Jul 2012 14:20:46
Saf should strengthen cb that exactly what cause us the league because what hap when vidic hav another long injury as he a more experiece and strong cb at the moment compile with ferd, small , evans

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30 Jul 2012 12:23:23
Lucas Moura was impressed by Old Trafford and the supporters after making a brief cameo appearance as a substitute in Brazil's 3-1 Olympic win against Belarus at the weekend. "The fans screaming my name was a very pleasant surprise," he told Superesportes. "I was glad. I tried to do something in the little time I had to play but the most important thing is that we won and we qualified. The stadium is wonderful with a fantastic structure. For me, it was very cool. At the moment, I am a player from Sao Paulo and I'm focused on the Olympics."

really hope the deal has already been done and it is being kept under wraps until Brazil are out of Olympics... sounds like he is very interested in us but wants to concentrate on olympics first

oxred

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30 Jul 2012 12:22:53
As much as I am pleased to hear positive thing about possible deal for lucas Moura. I really think we should give Victor Wanyama, such a raw defensive mid(obviously Saf doesn't tend to buy players who go for African cups)
and option and the best option is Nuri Sahin( Mourinho admit possible exit of the player if any deal coes through). I have been following the boy since 4 years ago. This guy is top player, can tackle very well, hold the ball amazingly, lots of assist, beautiful long and short pass and nice free kick. 2 years ago, I thought we can never get 2 best players from Dortmund, but now we have chance to get him.. and i reckon he will be under 10mill. Yes the boy was out injured, but if united are willing spend 30 for hazard or lucas and 10m for Bebe. I honestly think he will be the best buy. At Dortmund he was their best player. So I really hope Man utd buy him or atleast loan with possible buy.
Obviously we have young players coming and we can still give them chance, but having Sahin( I reckon he is better then Carrick) improve our team.

Red United

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I can only see an initial loan deal being done for Sahin as SAF will rightly be aware of his injury problems (aka Hargreaves). If a loan deal went well then I'm sure we would try to negotiate a full transfer for him.

RedDevil19

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RedDevil19, Hargreaves was injury-free and awesome in his first year and it all went downhill thereafter.

MUMBAI_BOY

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Hargo was not injury free in his first season,your wrong. Go back and look at the stats, im sure he only played about 25 games.

Red Daz.

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30 Jul 2012 08:41:55
Papers saying that we are looking at ashley cole? I would love to see him at old trafford so he could rot on our bench and for rio to get his hands on him.
Are there any realistic transfer targets except l.moura at the minute,for the players utd are linked with we would need around 500 million to spend.
Cant wait to see who we actually get if any.

quinner99

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30 Jul 2012 08:20:47
Hi ed,

Do you have a way of sending pictures to yourselves? I have a brilliant picture that I think needs to shared with everyone on a Monday!

Jamesmack8 {Ed002's Note - Why would I want to send a picture to myself? If you want to send a picture for everyone follow the links.}

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