Manchester United Banter Archive September 30 2013

 

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30 Sep 2013 23:05:52
Zaha plays 100 games plus 2 England caps before he's 21. 2 months at United and he goes back 3 years to reserve football

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Dm said we've not had a look at him yet? very strange

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I have wrote before I have no idea what Moyes is doing with the lad. If he's not going to play him then loan him out. He scored the winning goal at Wembley in front of 80k people and now he's playing for reserves. Why didn't he loan him back to Palace and he could have got valuable experience? He saw the lad train everyday during the summer tour so he can have no excuses, play him or loan him. Its things like this that make me think Moyes is in over is head.

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30 Sep 2013 22:29:30
Come on chaps keep your head on, give Moyes a chance its a massive change for him give him time to work it out.
Don't forget he was hamstrung in the transfer window by the person

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30 Sep 2013 23:06:09
hi pardoe it's not about given him time, it's just that he has made a lot of big mistakes already and saying he does not want thiago and does not even know that kawaga does not play as wing 4 japan and don't rate him, but he rate's young say's a lot about him, Manchester United is 2 big 4 him and do u honestly want him to struggle four couple of year's(3-4years) before he get's it rigth!?we will lose a lot of players by then, players like rafael de gea rooney and rvp and he will replace them with bad players and the players will be without flair he does not like foreign players.moyes is a goog manager but he needs like 4 years or maybe more 2 build a top team but he does not know how 2 do that.soory 4 the lomg post cheer's.zee

thenew52

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Some people do seem to think that the lack of strengthening is down to David Moyes. Had we signed the targets that Moyes set out then I very much doubt this conversation would be taking place. Moyes knew that we needed atleast 3 top class players and the board let him down massively. I would put my house on us making some big moves during the next 2 windows.

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The glazers will not spend big, 2 of moyes targets baines and herreara would of been here now if we hadnt penny pinched

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There is a lot of noise about £100m being spent over the next couple of windows and that may well be true, however that doesn't mean the club will change the way they are in the transfer market. I still do not expect MU to pay over the odds for players.

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Perhaps not massively over the odds, Syd, but where as previously the club would haggle over £4-5million, they aren't stupid and will be petrified of not qualifying for the Champions League. Personally I think we will qualify but, for a few extra million per player, I don't think the club will see it as a risk worth taking.

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Syd
then they won't get any top players

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Syd,
So what did you do with Fellaini then?

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I think there is a chance we will pay more than we would have done in the summer, but the difference between what MU wanted to pay for Herrera and what Bilbao wanted for Herrera was more than £4-5 million. I hope a deal could be reached, but I don't see Bilbao compromising when they didn't during the summer and I do not see MU paying £30m for him. He simply isn't a £30m player. He's a good player and could be worth that in a few years, but he isn't worth £30m now. Then you have to consider the other costs on top of that and there will not be much left for other areas. I think we may finally pay near what is needed to secure Baines. Perhaps around £17m. But I think Baines will need to push for a way out and I'm not convinced he will. Could we see Garay finally purchased? We will see.

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Herrera is a better player than 27:5 mill Fellaini

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Jred, I want us to pay what is needed to get the players we need. But if we have to pay £30m for Herrera, then I would prefer we pay a little more for a better player. Someone in Cesc's class. There are very few about though.

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Syd
Fab, hamsik Vidal ext will all cost 40 +

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Syd, do you honestly think that we would be willing to (a) pay the money need to buy someone in Cesc's class? And (b) do you think a midfielder already playing for a top team would be willing to join us at the moment?

As far as I can see we are hesitant to exceed the £30 million mark and we really struggled to attract top players during the last window. So chasing Cesc type players is a pipe dream unless we are willing to pay over the odds, which we won't. But we still are desperately in need of a creative playmaker, so Herrera, I would argue, is about the best we can do. The club needs to buck up and pay the release fee for Herrera or face the reality of another season without any creativity in the middle. The stats don't lie, and so far Rooney has been our most creative player but he is 28 on the list of key passers in the league this season. Not good enough for a club chasing titles, so Herrera is potentially worth his fee because he would provide what we lack.

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I don't believe any of them are available. Hamsik certainly isn't worth £40m.

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If the owners don't like to spend money why on earth are we even considering baines at 29 two or three seasons at the top left at 18 million which according to everton they are going to come up with then wages that to me dose not make sense we would have the same problem replacing him it would make more sense to spend that bit extra on somebody younger for the long term

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Danny,

A) Yes I do believe we would be wiling to pay a record amount for someone like Cesc i'd he was truly available. We did bid £34m. I am sure we would have gone higher if Cesc was interested in joining.

B) Yes I do believe we could get a top player to join us. Arsenal signed Oezil did they not? Higuain signed for Napoli, Spurs signed Lamela. I think we would have signed Oezil had Rooney joined Chelsea.

Should we pay £30m for Baines because we are lacking a decent LB? MU value Herrera at say £23m, Bilbao want £30m. Usually the two clubs would meet somewhere in the middle, but Bilbao will not negotiate on the price.

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I would take Herrera over Hamsik. Cesc then Vidal would be my choices, but neither are available. Both want to stay at their clubs and their clubs are unwilling to sell.

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Syd
Hamsik was outstanding last season I'm a fan of Herrera but for me hamsik is a much better player and is a big reason why napoli are doing so well.
Also top players are never available unless you pay big cash .
People said ozeil wasn't available or gotze wasn't available

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Gundogan will only have 1 year on his contract next summer so that should put him in United price range

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Syd, we made a couple of bids for Cesc below what Barcelona actually paid for him. That isn't paying over the odds, that's trying to low ball. My argument is not that we won't bid over £30m, it is that we are very hesitant to bid above it for any player. I find it very hard to believe that we would have paid the £42m for Ozil, regardless of whether Rooney was sold.

It's not the same as bidding £30m for Baines, and you know it, even more so because Baines valuation is £18m. We have identified Herrera as a player who would directly improve us in the weakest area of our team. Bilbao have clearly stated that there is no wiggle room for negotiation and that £30m is the price. Now we can either give up on the player or put up the cash. Given that I am struggling to see an alternative who would be cheaper or a better player who would be willing to play for us, do you not think that he is worth paying £7m over our valuation? We were happy to pay well over our valuation for Fellaini because we desperately needed him, so what is so different about Herrera who would add more to the team than Fellaini?

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Jred, nonsense, both Goetze and Oezil were available hence the reason they moved. BM triggered Goetze's clause and Goetze wanted the move and Oezil was hawking himself around Europe all summer and RM needed the money. Vidal and Cesc both want to stay and the clubs do not want to sell. They are not available, Goetze and Oezil were available. {Ed004's Note - Im hoping we make a move for a few German players tbh. Moyes has spoken about the German league so hopefully we have an eye on a few players Lars Bender, Draxler, Reus, Gundogan etc}

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Danny, So if MU sold Rooney for £40m (lets say), you don't believe we would have used that cash to buy Oezil? Probably the best number ten on the planet. I would bet my mortgage that we would have.

Baines is valued at whatever Bill Kenright wants for him. So if he said he wants £30m should we pay it because we are so desperate for a LB that can actually defend. Bilbao want £30m plus extras and MU think it's overpriced.

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Syd
The point is 6 months ago people on this site where saying ozel and gotze where not available yet they have both moved. Only last month I said if ozel could be made available and you disagreed .
Why Do you like to pretend you know what is going ion in world football .
Every player is available for the right price Madrid prove this every year
You seem to know what's going on at juventus and the Vidal camp so you know for a fact that Madrid for example couldn't put enough money on the table to temp juventus or s package together to temp vidal that he hasn't got a buy out clause similar to gotze

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Sydney

"I still do not expect MU to pay over the odds for players."

We are penny wise and pound foolish and it makes me laugh. We go buy players like Bebe, Buttner, Young, Nani. Anderson, Berbatov and a host of others, which are worth a fraction of what we paid for them or in some cases a complete waste of money.

So were 8 million apart on Herrera and did not do the deal but paid 4.5 miilion more for fallaini, who was available to anyone all summer and no one came in for him. I wonder who paid over the odds.

BTW Fabregas would not go for less than 45 million in the current market and we might as well just not bother bidding for these type of players as we will never get them at our valuations.

Why are we the only club who seems to miss on an so many players because of this issue whilst other clubs might not agree on 1 or 2 transfer targets but not to tour extent.

The club needs to have a assessment of their transfer policy and just accept that these are different times and you pay what the going rate in the market is.

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Syd, I seem to remember that we sold a player for £80m and didn't respond by making a massive signing, so selling Rooney would have no way guaranteed that we would have broke the bank for Ozil. We have never paid anywhere near that amount for any player before, and there is no evidence to suggest that we are willing to buck that trend now.

I don't know why you keep banging on about Baines either. He is another example of a player that we refused to match the valuation for but your argument about 'what if Baines was £30m' is a strawman, and is completely irrelevant to the discussion on Herrera.

Athletic value Herrera at £30m, and will not budge on this valuation. We value him at £23m, but there's no point biding this amount because the price has been set £7m above this valuation. The question is, is Herrera worth paying over the odds for because he is (a) exactly the type of player we need, (b) probably the best player that we could bring in, and (c) bringing in a better player would cost more. I think that the club needs to wise up and accept that we need to pay over the odds to bring in the players that we need to stay competitive.

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Is Herrera worth 30mill to United, imo yes

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Danny, I have said the exact same thing. I don't think Herrera is worth £30m yet, but I have been saying for a long time now that we need to pay over the odds to get that important midfielder. I don't expect the club to do it in every window or on every transfer, but I'd hoped they would have done it this summer as it was important that they backed Moyes after SAF leaving. You are preaching to the choir (almost spelled it wrong ;).

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Jred, I think he is a £25m player, but a couple years at MU and you could add ten million. That being said I would worry that such a huge fee could put him under pressure. Especially when you consider the pressure Kagawa is under already this season.

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Jred, Vidal said a month ago that he wants to stay at Juventus. Juventus president said he is not for sale. Cesc said a month ago that he wants to stay at Barcelona and Barcelona have said he is untransferable. These players are not available. Not because I said it, but because THEY said it. Goetze has never hid the fact that he will leave Dortmund and has flirted with us, Arsenal, Barcelona etc etc in the past. Oezil was not a player RM wanted to sell, but they got desperate towards the end of the window as Di Maria, Modric, Benzema etc didn't want to leave. They wanted Bale and Oezil wanted to leave which made him available. Was Lewandowski available in the summer? Did he have a price? Does Messi have a price? Did Scholes have a price? If Vidal and Cesc became available there would be no shortage of admirers, but they are not available.

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Jred, what do you think about Pastore? Could he be a player worth looking at?

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Syd
don't believe everything you read in papers if Vidal or any other player is asked by the press if they are happy of course he is going to say yes.
I told you ozil would be the odd man out and he was.
But I stand by my point you have absolutely no idea if Vidal would be available at the right price or if he would be interested in a move so why pretend you do.

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Syd
He's a good player but a lot depends on our formation .
Arsenal are giving a lesson in how to play the 4_2_3_1

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Vidal turned down a very good Barcelona offer to join Juventus and Juventus are just starting to look like a team able to win major trophies. Why would he leave them? If he says he is happy at Juventus and dismisses talk of him leaving, who are you to question that? You spend most days copying and pasting quotes from players/managers. Why bother if you think they are telling porkies? Oezil wasn't the odd man out. RM didn't want to sell him. They wanted him to stay, it was him who pushed his way out and RM allowed it after they failed to raise capital elsewhere in the squad. Because Benzema, Di Maria, Coentrao etc didn't leave, RM had to raise the capital somewhere and they sold their 2nd best player because he wanted to go, not because he was the odd man out. RM didn't want him to leave and neither did a few of the RM players. They were shocked that he was sold. RM had a list of players that were surplus, he wasn't on that list.

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Syd
Lol so you know what's going on at Madrid now .
Why pretend
With bale and especially isco who has taken ozil spot, ozil was going to struggle for a game.
I explained all this at the time you disagreed but guess what you where wrong.
Yet again you are making excesses .
It seems you always know what's going in after the event.
To be honest I don't take any of your post serious any more

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I am simply relaying the information the editor gave us regarding Oezil. That's how I know the situation regarding Oezil and RM. Everything I said above is accurate.

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30 Sep 2013 22:14:26
I we had won the first 7 games some people on here would be saying "he's inherited a championship squad"! I am worried, but think we must wait. Some players really need to step forward now.

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01 Oct 2013 06:52:14
I agree that players need to improve and step up but I also think thay Moyes needs to start consistent pairings on the pitch starting in defence with Evans and Vidic
Midfield with Carrick and Fellaini sitting behind a front 3 and Rvp

What do ye think?

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30 Sep 2013 22:03:24
Just an idea, but a couple of seasons ago, Johnny Evans had a run of games at left back when Evra was injured and played very well. I'm not a fan of the whole "square pegs in round holes" idea, but left back is one of our biggest problems at the moment. Evra has been next to useless as usual, and Buttner looks out of his depth at this level. I know Fabio is still an option, but Evans might be worth a go in the short term. Then hopefully we might be able to return for Coentrao in January.

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I don't think it's the worst idea in the world. I think DM has to choose one out of Buttner, Evans and Fabio and give them a run, whatever he does. The biggest problem I see with it is we probably need Jonny in the centre.

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Im afraid with no left footed wingers in our squad, leftbacks are the ones who get to the byline and cross, that's why you always see Evra attacking. With Evans coming on our left wing will be dead. I reckon that's why Fabio isn't beeing used more often there

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Mentioned this before - one of Jonny's best games for Northern Ireland, was at left back in a win over Spain at Windsor Park. Had a certain Fernando Torres, in his prime, trapped in his pocket all game. Torres never got a sniff.

Would agree with Mick on his capability to get forward tho. However he is a very good distributor of the ball, so might be worth a shout if all else fails.

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Could also look at 3 5 2. Evans vidic jones. Raph and evra as wing backs. Fell carrick cm. Kagawa in between rvp and roo.

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Jonny Evans has been Utd's best and most consistant CB over the last few seasons yet he can hardly get a sniff now. Instead Moyes plays a has been who is afraid to put a tackle in but likes to look fancy playing balls out from the back which now go astray quite regularly. Evans should be first choice CB not left back. Moyes is a plank imo.

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Mick, who is to say that Evans wouldn't get forward? He is decent at coming out of defence with the ball and although he doesn't have blistering pace he may still be able to do a job.

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I want to see a back four Jones, Smalling, Vidic & Evra tomorrow. I think Smalling and Vidic is our best possible CB pairing.

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Rafael at left back for me. Jones might struggle against their wingers and offers very little going forward.

Is Rafael Injured?

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Shaz, I don't think Rafael is 100% yet.

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30 Sep 2013 21:25:14
Sam red you are right we will not finish top 7 let alone top 4
Sydney you are obviously happy for our club to sit mid table. How does signing Baines at the age of 29 going to help us. Just like fellaini he looks good on a very average side. David moyes cannot motivate the players
I agree we haven't become a bad team overnight but it's clear there is a problem there as the players can't be bothered. RVP body language is not good, how many times did you see him run around like a mad man getting booked last year .none
Fella I is not good enough for the top level if he was City Chelsea spur or arsenal would have gone for him. Why didn't they?
Same with Baines if he was that good sir Alex would have gone for him two seasons ago.we don't need a mass clear out of players just David moyes and ex Everton coaching set up inc Neville and Giggs

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Oh dear! Clueless. So 8th is the highest we can finish and Baines is crap. I really have heard it all now. The end of the world is nigh.

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Coch,

I will bet you £5000 we finish in the top 7, I have never heard such drivel in all my life. We haven't turned into a rubbish team overnight but you think we will go from champions to 8th, no wonder other teams are laughing at some of our fans, what a total embarrassment.

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Draig

Fergie was after Baines. Both Arsenal and Chelsea have rumoured to have considered Fellaini in the last couple of years. And I suspect RVP's body language is as much about Rooney as anything else.

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SAF did go for Baines but was met with the same price. £18m.

I do not think I have read such a ridiculous post.

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30 Sep 2013 21:18:31
I can safely say Everton got the better deal.

Martinez who I wanted. Lukaku Barry McCarthy. Kept baines and barkley.

Martinez has.won something. Plays attacking football and set Swansea on there way.

astute manager good eye for players and good attacking football.

i honestly think its worst than I thought it was going to be under moyes. Which was originally top 4 and may be get out of the champions league group.

pre season and the start of the league has been poor. I don't think the players want to play for him.

sick of hearing say the same rubbish he has been.

one word uninspiring if I am I wonder how the teams feels.

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Martinez is nowhere near ready for a club the size of United.

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Yes marteneze spelling won fa cup but also relegated wigan then jumped ship if he had been man enough to stay with wigan and then bring them back up then you can say he has got something about him he would strugle like dm because it is a monster of a club

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Moyes is no where near ready for a club the size of utd not his fault there's very few managers in world football who are

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Martinez may be not be ready. Who would be. Look at the two starts for them both.

Martinez did go down with Wigan but did remarkable things prior to keep them up. On a shoe string.

also along with sousa set Swansea on there way.

plays good football look at how Everton have improved over less time than moyes has had to ruin our team

no idea wha they think of his daily moans.

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30 Sep 2013 20:21:30
my last 5 or so posts haven't been posted, is there a reason why?thanks in advance of a reply. {Ed002's Note - No idea. Try the "Other" page."

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30 Sep 2013 20:08:44
Don't forget it's only a game.

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30 Sep 2013 19:25:46
There are finally some sane people coming on here instead of the doom and gloom merchants. This past few days has been like the transfer window on here again. I'm sure people just come on to moan and groan and don't care what its about. They seem to just have a big grey cloud following them around all the time.

We support THE greatest club in the world, yes we are going through a difficult patch, but as I said earlier, did anyone honestly think it would be anything but? We lost the greatest manager of all time, he chose to Moyes to succeed him and e need to get behind him and give him a fair chance. Anyone wanting to sack him now is on another planet in my eyes.

SAF worked miracles at times the last few years, did we expect Moyes could do that with the same first 11? I certainly didnt. He needs time to assess and then clearout and build his own team/squad. He couldn't do that in one summer where it seems Woodward also had a shocker.

We all need to calm down, get behind the teamand accept this is going to be a difficult season. I expect us to get 3rd spot and will be happy with that. Moyes can then start rebuilding next summer and we can truly see whst he is about.

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If we come in third I will be extremely happy because that's what I predicted before the season started. However, I didn't anticipate Arsenal getting Ozil and Spurs getting an entire new squad. I think this the toughest the league has been.

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Brendan I don't care where we finish never have, if we win things great but its something that has never been a reason I go every season.i like the social side of home games and in the past I've been priveliged to see some fantastic football along the way.unfortunately I've not seen that fantasy football for a few seasons now and don't think this season will be any different.i believe that this season will be a massive reality check and predictions ranging from winning the league, top by christmas or even top 3 will be wide of the mark.as others have said this isn't just down to moyes but has been building up for a few years now through the lack of proper investment in key areas.i also think the job is too big for moyes and I fear for him as the pressure grows as it surely will if we carry on losing.weds is a massive game against a team with 1 of the best home records in europe and on paper not what we needed after city and west brom, if we can somehow pull off a win then it will hopefully instill a bit of confidece which is seriously lacking at the moment.

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Brendan

Stop talking sense man, we should be top, we should win every game, Moyes out! Seriously, it looks like being an interesting year, some us remember the pre-SAF and the early SAF years, others have perhaps been spoiled in recent times. I think John makes some good points - but I do think we will find a formula that keeps us competitive, it just might take too long for us to challenge.

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I think CL qualification is a must. Otherwise, we will find it even more difficult to attract players. And loss of revenue will mean glazers will be even tighter with the purse strings.
Non of us think we have a god given right to win the league every year, but a team who win the league by 11 points shouldn't be struggling so badly.

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He can only rebuild as you put it if he is given some realistic amount if money to spend which I doubt. As I said earlier in the summer it may take us to fall apart before some fans come down from the clouds and realise that our owners have bled our club dry.

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Sorry AJH :-)

Yeah I agree with what John says too, I am old enough to remember pre SAF and his early years and it wasn't pleasant at times but we have been spoiled the past 20 years.

I read a post by Timbo on the other posts page, makes a lot of very good points in my eyes.

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30 Sep 2013 19:24:43
eric steele appointed steve mclarens no2 at derby good luck eric

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30 Sep 2013 19:08:15
Guy's it seems some of the posters here are just aiming for a top four finish, saying "don't worry we'll finish top four" . When did we care about the top four? We are manchester united . We always think of winning the PL not just finishing in top four. Have we become an Arsenal or Spurs or even City?
We should not even worry about the top four. We are in it.
I hate this kind of aspirations. DO NOT FORGET WE ARE MANCHESTER UNITED and we are winners.

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Mohammed some of us have longer memories than you and we know that football goes up and down. No one stops at the top for ever. Many of us remember the bad times when if we got to a cup final or a result at Anfield it made our season. And that Mohammed was Manchester United

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Kloot for once I 100% agree with a whole post of yours, it's only taken about 3 years mate ;)

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Finally a KLOOT post I can agree with.

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KLOOT, stop this right now! That's two posts of yours I've agreed with lately, and frankly, it's making me feel a little dirty.

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As I have said before, my favourite game was the FA Cup semi final in '83 against Arsenal. Why? Because despite having some great players we were not a great team and only so the occasional cup. We pitched up for big games more in hope than expectation. I'm not saying I want to go back to that but it's very easy for complacency to seep in

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Ngiak can't believe mr rainfishtrombone said that
gan

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30 Sep 2013 19:05:23
We need to forget about what would fergie do in this situation. He's not the manager now. Moyes is.

Sure its hard to see us lose and be outplayed by West Brom, City etc.

Moyes is trying to figure out his best team and system. Its going to be painful, some players need to move on and some new ones will come in.

I just wish Moyes wuld try to be more positive in his talks and team selection and play in the united way. Either way Moyes has got a tough job and we should give him a fair crack of the whip even though the league table is hard to look at, at the moment.

Hang on for the ride, its going to be a rough one!

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30 Sep 2013 17:17:19
Ahhh boarshaw u are the worst poster on here imo, I have yet seen a positive post from u, u disappeard when we won the league and only reappeared when the transfer business was going tits up! U seem to revel in your own teams failures!
Heres a crazy thought why dnt u get behind them?
Chris the REDman"""

dear mr chris the redman
very well said sir
ngiak wonders if there is a corelation between age of posters, duration of time they supported the club and the ridiculous suggestions to condemn the manager
ngiak remembers dear old Atkinson and the first 6 seasons of some guy by the name of alex
well that's all in the past
it's great to banter. and ngiak really wishes mr Sydney would please stop making predictions as he has the luck of getting them 100% wrong. very consistent
but ngiak supports the optimism
WE ARE MAN united fans. through thick and thin
with greater dignity and sportsmanship than the rest
it's time for the fans to show their class
but ngiak also believes that despite being a portal for criticism and opinions
it should also be a portal for encouraging and showing support for the new guy
he is NOT sir Alex
he is NOT familiar with the club yet
he is NOT immune to pressures and anxiety
he is NOT going to not make mistakes
to all sir alex worshippers
it's the past
many players are past their prime
many players are very average
sir alex players
no changes were made by him
yes, he WAS the greatest. but he left a mess
moyes has a lot to cleanup
the fans are needed now more than ever
maybe it's time to clear out the fair weather ones too?
let woodsy find his feet
and an honest hardworking straight talking man might just turn things around soon
jan window to consolidate
summer to build his own legacy
let the fans also show their class and maturity and support
gan

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Here-here! Absolutely spot on!

WF Red Devil

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Bang on the money. let's not turn our club into everything we often accuse other clubs of doing wrong.Get behind the team and manager, right now, is what seperates those who truly support and those who just shore things up till its uncomfortable.

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Great post Gan.
Too much negativity on here. It's going to take time, we have to be patient.
We are Utd, not Two bit clubs like Chelski

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Lol I've supported united since 1965 and believe me I don't like what i'm seeing happening to the club, I've said we would not sign the quality we needed in the summer and we would struggle to make top 4 that is not my hope just my opinion like we are all entitled too

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30 Sep 2013 17:00:23
There's no doubt Moyes is under pressure at the moment, and if he comes through this successfully, it'll be the making of him as the future Manchester United manager. Sometimes in order to climb to the top, you have to hit rock bottom.

For me, looking at the players at the moment, they seem to be experiencing a little bit of self-doubt. Traditionally, they'd walk on that pitch knowing that behind them was one of the greatest managers of all time. Should the team not be performing well, and even though he wasn't on the pitch, Sir Alex could change the game in United's favour in a heartbeat. Whether it be a substitution, or perhaps just knowing what to say, at just the right time. Simply knowing that Sir Alex was behind them, gave them all an 10% extra right from the start, and that air of invincibility. But it wasn't always like that.

As soon as Sir Alex first walked into Manchester United, he demanded respect. If you didn't adhere his rules, you were thrown out. He wasn't there to make friends, and he simply took no prisoners nor compromises. Initially this cause a massive stir, with senior players grumbling as it was a massive change to the old regime of heavy drinking, partying and generally not taking your profession seriously. 3 years later, he finally tasted success proving that his method were right from the start. This started a chain-reaction of success breeding respect, breeding further success, to a point where he developed an 'aura'. An aura that subsequently spread to the pitch, and those 11 players that started the game.

We've lost that 'aura', and at the moment the players seem to have a lot of doubt as a consequence. If Moyes is going to be successful, he needs to be absolutely ruthless in my opinion. No more "It's a massive job, and Sir Alex was great, blah, blah" or "We'll try our hardest, etc." He needs to grab this club by the short and curlies, and if needs be, ruffle some feathers - the bigger the feathers the better! Will some players revolt and kick up a fuss? Yes, absolutely! But that's the point.There should be NO ONE BIGGER AT MANCHESTER UNITED THAN THE MANAGER.



WF Red Devil

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Dear mr wf red devil
brilliant post sir
ngiak is in total agreement
he will clear out the deadwood and those not dedicated to the cause
he has nothing to lose and it's in his blood
the transfer window closed too soon
gan

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Class post.

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30 Sep 2013 15:12:00
I thought that Eric Steeles "comments" where just paper talk but Shahram pointed out that these were direct quotes, if this is the case then the whole saga from Fergie retiring to now is a total balls up.
Gill had always said that there were plans in place with regards to SAF successor.In order to maintan stability and continuity would the ideal scenario not to have Fergies no. 2 lined up to be the natural successor(I don't mean Phelan), he should have been in place for a couple of years then slot straight in.
In appointing DM the club should have ensured that he worked alongside the tried and tested coaching staff if only for a year until he found his feet. Utd as we all know is a bigger beast than most other football clubs. By all means bring some of his own men in but let them also learn from people who know the club.
Giggs and Nevilles first coaching roles should be working with the youngsters then move up to first team.
Any wonder DM is finding it hard, he has aided the club in putting himself in an impossible situation.I hope that he and the club have decked that he needs all the help and advice from SAF before its too late.

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Does make u wonder if fergie left or was pushed towards to exit door

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Any top manager would want his own backroom staff.
All the problems at the moment are what happens when you change manager especially one that has been at a club as long as fergy.
Moyes needs to put his own stamp on the club .
What's amazing is people didn't see this coming.
We where also going to go through a bit of pain no matter who the manager is.
I'm far from convinced moyes is the right man for the job but you need to give him time and would expect him to be at the club for at least 2year .
What's surprises me is the same people who tried to tell me what a good manager he was in summer seem to be the first to doubt him after a few games, everyone needs to relax a bit and see the squad and the size of the job for what it is .

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Spot on jred.

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Spot on Jred, wish more people would realise that before posting

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You cannot blame Moyes for wanting his own backroom staff with him like Jred said. I think he should have let them all go or it wouldn't have felt like his team. The only criticism I have of Moyes is passing up the opportunity to sign Thiago. As far as errors go, if true that would be up there with the very worst of them. As long as Moyes finishes in the top four he will remain manager. So you have to say he will be around for a while yet. People need to get behind the manager, not booing him. It will do far more damage than good and if you are truly a MU fan, then you will not want that.

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Syd
I think thiago best position is as a deep cm linking play.
But reportedly moyes didn't think he would handle the EPL.
I think he bought fellaini to play there which for me was the mistake, Carrick will play most games and I would rather thiago type than a fellaini next to Carrick I think that is what we have been missing.
Imo we didn't need a dm this summer also after paying 27 mill I don't think he was bought to sit on the bench so I think moyes wanted a Carrick fellaini cm which for me has always been an issue as I said all summer it's outdated and negative

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I don't think it is a blame thing. At this level and considering the club he has to win. Complaining about everything under the sun is not going to help him.

If we go with the theory of this is just growing pains at some point he has to grow up and start winning.

I think the Southampton game will be immense and if we do not win, people can say all they want about not panicking and let's give him more time but I think you will be proven wrong.

There are too many points to make up against not one but a bunch of teams who are not going to be cupcakes. THEY ARE ALL BETTER THIS YEAR.

This idea that it is okay to lose because one of our other rivals lost does not wash as there are a number of teams that will compete for top 4 placing.

72 points is what we will need for a top 4 I reckon, so do the math and every time we lose or draw the target will be further away. 65 points from 32 games or 96 points.

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I see Herrera as a box to box player add a good creative cm like thiago and I think our whole style would of been much improved.

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01 Oct 2013 12:00:03
Jred, the club clearly wanted two midfielders this summer, but with Cesc's camp making all the right noises, I think Moyes thought he could get him. That mixed with his feelings that he believed Thiago wouldn't handle the EPL and I think that's how the blunder came about. Maybe if Moyes knew there wasn't any chance of Cesc he would have went for Thiago?

Carrick is 32 years old and this is a squad game. The club are not going to go against signing another much needed midfielder just because you don't see Carrick or Fellaini sitting on the bench. It is a squad game and we needed midfielders. I think Moyes wanted Cleverley, Carrick, Jones, Cesc/Herrera & Fellaini. Then we would have had the midfielders to challenge on all four fronts giving players the much needed rest they deserve.

MU will not want to play Carrick in every game this season. So Herrera would have been a good signing, although not as good as Thiago. Ed02 says we still hold an interest in Herrera so we will see what happens, but I think we would have more chance of seeing two defenders signed in January.

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Syd
Carrick will play more games than any cm in my opinion

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Jred, I actually sent the last post yesterday, not sure why it turned up today. Carrick will play a lot. But so will Fellaini, so will Cleverley. So would a new midfielder. It's all about rotation these days.

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30 Sep 2013 15:01:18
Sydney
You said at the beginning of last season united were 2, 3 players from.dominating europe and that is a fact. Lad your a funny guy to banter with but manchester united are a great club and most intelligent united fans and KLOOT acknowledge that united are carrying ordinary players, young, cleverly, anderson, giggs and ferdinand past it. United need rejuvanised with young top players. #Moyesin ;)

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How would MU dominate Europe? Teams like BM, RM, BvB & Barcelona will never be dominated. I said MU need three players to challenge on all four fronts. Two central midfielders and a LB (Baines).

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United are only 3 players away from dominating europe, messi, Ronaldo and inesta :-)

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Sydney
United would of still been miles away from winning the Champions League even if they would have added Herrera and Baines as well as Fellaini.

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Simmo, I'd wager that if we had signed Herrera and Baines, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

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Sam thered
Who do you think moyes would of dropped to play herrera

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Jred, He would have probably been a main starter, and would have alternated with Carrick and Fellaini, IMO.

Herrera, IMO, is the type of player we have been crying out for. He ticks all the box's needed to be a top CM. Him and Baines would have made a big difference.

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Samthered
I agree I really like Herrera and I think he is exactly what we need

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Big Al you got that one in under the wire. Nice

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Thought it was a nice touch too, Big Al. Can't believe no-one picked you up on it before now :)

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30 Sep 2013 14:02:46
Hi Guys

Just a quick point i'd like to make. I think its unfair some of the stick dm is getting but the comments that he is coming out with is not helping his cause.

'We don't have superstar players' 'we can't win the champions league' 'we need players to come straight in to the team' etc.i think all this negativity is one of the main problems

The players were used to unrivalled support from sir alex publicly even when things weren't going well or when the team was playing poorly and now they don't seem to be getting the same protection which I think is changing there attitude on the pitch and they don't seem to be giving 100%. just my opinion

cheers

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He can't rate Rooney and Van Persie that highly.

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Rooney and RVP are the only two world class players at United.
Moyes knows that, the problem is half of the team are just average.
Young, Cleverley, Anderson, Nani, Buttner.
Rio looks desperately slow now, Vidic is coming upto 33 and slowing down, Evra's defending is just terrible and get's worse with every game.
Carrick is knocking on for 33 now and Fellaini has only just joined the club and has to adapt.
We need at least 5-6 new players to come in over the January transfer period and the summer transfer period, and they all need to be real quality players if were to stand any chance of the Premiership or the Champions League.

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Vidic is 31 and he is world-class.

5-6 new players, you are talking nonsense Simmo.

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He said we don't have enough world class players.

Rooney, Van Persie and an aging Vidic are the only world class players in our squad. Michael Carrick could be considered world class by some( when it comes to controlling posession and setting the tempo of a game, he is the best in the league by a country mile ) but he cannot play 8 games in a month without being rested nor can he play to his best without a decent partner.

But what we do have are players with world class potential whether it's in the near future ( Kagawa, Rafael, David de Gea, Fabio?, Jones, Smalling?, Evans, Nani? ) who, if not given a fair chance, will not reach their potential and some great young talents who can reach great levels with time ( Januzaj, Zaha, Lingard, Keanes, Henriquez ).

But what we need right now are players who can improve the squad, while also not blocking the development of youngsters.

At left-back, we only have Fabio who has any talent to speak of, but he hasn't done enough to merit a starting place ( neither has Evra in any case ) and we need to invest in someone.

And the other area is central midfield. We have no up and coming talents whatsoever to realistically challenge for a first team spot ( Ekangamene, Ben Pearson and Davide Petrucci are either too young or too unlucky ) and we desesperatly need a central playmaker in Carrick's mould ( pace setter ).

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Vidic is a very good central defender he is not World Class Sydney.
He was World class 2-3 years ago.
Your statements get better and better. remember the one last week about being top by Christmas, do you still stand by that one?
We do need 5-6 players and I will put my house on it that David Moyes buys that many over the January and Summer transfer window.
We need new wingers, at least one or two more midfielders, a left back and a central defender.
This will be Rio's last year, Vidic will be 32 nearly 33, Smalling and Jones are constantly injured.

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Appreciate the feedback!

all man u fans + dm know's we are short in a number of area's but coming out and saying it?! just don't think that was the way to go

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Vidic is world-class Simmo. He is 31, not nearly 33. Rio used to be world-class, but no longer is. Evra used to be world-class and no longer is, Vidic is world-class.

IMO we will buy 3-4 first team players between now and the start of next season. Obviously a CB, LB & CM will be signed. I would hazard a guess at us signing a left winger too.

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There isn't a central defence on the planet that Vidic wouldn't get into. That means he is world-class.

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Wow simmo, vidic not worldclass? pfff the man is one of the best cb in the world mate u need to get off those funny pills

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United have some world class players clearly As a non supporter I would class Rooney, RVP, Vidic as world class. The rest are average (at best) and I include DeGea, Evra, Chicorito, Evans, Jones, Carrick. The others wouldn't get in most PL teams and I include Ferdinand, Giggs, Young, Welbeck, Nani and all the other young lads. Liverpool on the other hand have Suarez, Sturridge, Gerard, Coutinho, Agger, Skrtl, Toure, Mignolet, Enrique, Johnson, Lucas ably supported by loads of young guns all proven at international level, including captaining their country at U21 level. Sterling, Henderson, Wisdom, Aspas, Ilori, Moses, Sakho. i'm afraid Moyes has a LOT of work to do

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Sydney, sorry to say it but it's not simmo who is talking nonsense. I'd go further and say its more like 10+ new players needed.

Valencia, nani, young, ferdinand, cleverley, evra, Giggs and anderson all eight out straightaway.

Carrick, RVp and Vidic while still quality are all over 30 and will need replacing in the next couple of years.

Its possible you could also add wellbeck, buttner and fabio to that first list.

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Tel, our squad is FAR better than Liverpool's. Far better.

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Sydney, there's only you that actually believes it now. United have players in their squad that quite honestly would not be bought by ANY team in the league. Let me name just some of them: Ferdinand, Evans, Giggs, Evra, Nani, Cleverley, Anderson and Young, that's 8 yes 8 first team players, and you and I know there's more! None of the young lads would get a game in any premiership club yet. There is some potential there, I accept, but no more than most clubs have on their own books. For example none of them compare to say Coutinho or Sturridge. Bury your head in the sand if it helps Sydney, but facts are facts. We all know united has an ageing squad that should have been replaced 2 or 3 years ago, but Fergie persisted with playing Scholes and Giggs because he couldn't find any better players? United have made the classic mistake i'm afraid, by delaying in replacing good players with even better players.
The last batch Fergie bought, were just not up to Uniteds standards, and you know it i'm sure.

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Tel, Juve were looking at Nani recently, so I dare say he'd probably get into your all-conquering team of world beaters.

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Chris Red Man

Can you please tell me what he has done over the past two seasons to warrant "WORLD CLASS"?
He's been injured alot, I've seen Vidic get torn apart in quite a few games over the past couple of seasons.
This name "WORLD CLASS" is just banded around so much it's embarrassing. Very good player but world class. nah not for me.

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30 Sep 2013 13:17:45
To all the knee jerk reaction merchants: If you thought Moyes would come in and we would waltz onto the title wagon with no instability, you are either mad or thick. We can't throw money at a new manager like Chelsea or City. My son could pick their team's each week based on playing Fifa on the Xbox. This season will be a low one. If we qualify for CL be happy. Start your yapping when Moyes has had a season and a couple of transfer windows to build.

All the brain surgeons out there tell me what we do if Moyes went right now?

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Agreed Mick. No doubt Moyes has made some mistakes but he needs to be given a couple of seasons to find his feet and rebuild a squad in dire need of a major overhaul.

However, that can only happen if Utd finish at least in the top four so we can attract the top players with Champions League football (it's difficult enough as it is). With Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal and City all vastly improved from last season, a top four finish will be tough.

What will be interesting is what might happen if we are 10th or something come Christmas. However, like you say, if Moyes is fired - what next? The only viable mid season rescue plan I can think of is fergie coming out of retirement.

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Utter rubbish. United need success on the pitch to continue the success off it. Not qualifying for the CL this season would be an utter disaster.

United don't have the kind of financial backing the likes of City have, who can throw money at a problem. We have debt to worry about; thus it is of paramount importance that the club stay successful.

I am sure Moyes' was made aware of this. He was probably told what the minimum expectation was, which wasn't to finish outside the top 4.

He has 5 games left, IMO, to put it right; and if the players' don't fancy playing under him, I should think he is pretty much finished.

Fact is the whole hand-over was a shambles. The club needed a big ego to take over. Someone who would have not kept on talking about the previous manager. Someone who would have walked in his own shadow. I think we all know who we should have gone for under the circumstances.

Fans' who pay money to see United play have a right to voice their concerns.

One last thing: Do you think the new mangers' of City, Chelsea, Madrid, Barca and Munich were told that they would be given time to win things?

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30 Sep 2013 14:51:31
I have and will always support David Moyes, but it seems the longer he is in the job the more rope he's being given to hang himself with.

His decision to get rid of all the back room staff was a poor decision. We needed their experiance to help the transition.

His tactics have been poor and he isn't getting the best out of the players. Some seem unhappy with the new regime.

And I now flinch everytime he speaks to the press, his comments are embaressing and don't inspire confidence.

I hope he can turn things around, but atm he is certainly struggling with the size of the task at hand. He needs help before he drowns and drags the club down with it.

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Good post sam agree with everything you say

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Ahhh boarshaw u are the worst poster on here imo, I have yet seen a positive post from u, u disappeard when we won the league and only reappeared when the transfer business was going tits up! U seem to revel in your own teams failures!
Heres a crazy thought why dnt u get behind them?

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30 Sep 2013 23:35:24
good post sam, agree with everything u said.zee

thenew52

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30 Sep 2013 13:10:10
Believe me, Sydney, I hope your fantasy of a top 4 finish comes true.

Mine is that the Glazer's sell the club.

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So you think MU finishing in the top four is fantasy? You really haven't got a clue.

You think the Glazers selling the club would be a good thing? Again, you do not have a clue.

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Sydney, I wouldn't back us to finish in the top half at the moment, let-alone the top 4. When WBA can come to OT and make us look like a bunch of chumps, one has to worry

Most teams in the PL now have a better CM than ours. And in the modern game, the CM area is where the game is won and lost.

We made City look like world beaters; and they are not that great as it turns out.

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Pea, there are VERY few people on this planet who can raise £3bn to buy MU. There will be no one who loves the club who have that sort of money. If the Glazers were forced to sell up they would sell to the highest bidder. That means the consortium with the biggest bid would get the club. There are still no rules or laws within the game to prevent another leveraged buyout. So whoever was to offer the Glazers the biggest amount of cash will be borrowing it against the club. We currently have around £380m gross debt. £300m net debt. Now that could easily be £1.5bn-£2bn gross debt if the Glazers sold the club. If that was to happen you could then worry about us going into liquidation as it would be possible. The Glazers are far from ideal owners after the way they bought the club, but we are out of the woods financially and are a massive financial power. I would love a Qatari consortium to buy us and pay off the debt and allow us to spend our own cash, but the chances of that happening are slim to none. The most likely outcome would be a full flotation, but if they were to sell to a consortium, then it will be with borrowed cash and we will be in trouble. Better the devil you know.

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Sam, you are flapping. Don't worry you are not the only one. The site is full of flappers. It was a bad day and that has inevitably had an affect on Saturday's game. City had a blinding game against us at the same time as we had a mare. The team Moyes played on Saturday was not our strongest side so I wouldn't base your opinion of us finishing 12th on that game. Moyes clearly prioritised the Shakhtar game and it backfired. We will almost certainly finish top four.

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Syd, it is called being a realist. I have tried to override pure logic with sentimentality, but it hasn't worked. It made my head hurt.

Believe me, I want the guy to succeed; but I am not going to sit here after witnessing an average side at best, come to OT and look like it was them who won the league by 11 points last season, and say everything is Hunky-dory.

The most worrying thing is the body language of the players'. I mean, I have seen us get beat a plenty of times, but I have never seen a United side so devoid of everything that has made us great.

I wouldn't put your money on us finishing in the top 4 ATM. That is an objective analysis, based on what I have seen from our team this season.

How long are we to give them man before the penny drops?

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Sam, it's called being a flapper. You think MU have become a bad team over night? I cannot believe some of you lot on here. It's ridiculous.

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Syd,

I've said before. we haven't become a bad team overnight, everyone else has just improved. We stood still this summer and other teams have bought good players, so they've improved. and they'll be harder to beat this season.

We shouldn't have been so weird in the transfer window, if we'd brought in the 2-3players we both know we needed, the transition would be smoother.

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Well, obviously, they have become a bad team, otherwise, we wouldn't be sitting in 12th place - 8 points off the leaders - after six games.

There is faith, and then there is blind faith.

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RS, I agree. We needed Baines and Herrera as well as Fellaini to kick on this season on all four fronts. I am not best pleased with our summer buys or lack of.

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Sam, I will be reminding you of this come the end of the season. Just like I reminded Red Sky about his prediction that we will finish outside the top four last season.

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You know what Syd, I hope you do, mate.

Believe me, I am getting no enjoyment from sitting here being negative. I am feeling depressed enough about the situation as it is. But I can't lie to myself. ATM, we look like a team that is going down hill fast. The Players' don't look up for it, and the pressure is really getting to the manager.

I just worry that this is all a bit too much for Moyes' and his staff. The level of expectation at our club, compared to his previous, are miles apart.

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The City game has shattered the players' confidence. A league win will get the team back on track. We played a weakened side at the weekend and that was a mistake by Moyes. When the team are trying to get their league form back on track, the last thing you should do is play a hugely weakened team. Saturday to Wednesday is plenty of rest time.

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Sydney I would definately leave off the jd and cokes :)

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John, I wish I could mate. I drink the stuff like it's pure orange.

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Syd,

Yes, and I took my stick last season from you, GDS and others. I reckon we finish 4th this season. I hope you, GDS and anyone else will be as forthcoming when the season ends - I've remembered mate, league winners and 20pts+ ahead of Liverpool.

We'll see in May.

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Red_sky,

And here's me thinking I would never have to bring that up again and you bring it up for me ;) enjoyed reading down this site tonight, still some negative posters flapping like we aren't going to finish top 4, but mainly some good points.

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As long as we finish 10 clear points ahead of Liverpool.

That one bet has been placed with about 20 different Scouse fans already this season - could be a very expensive May.

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30 Sep 2013 13:02:48
I was under the impression that Steele had decided to retire, but he has now come out and said that it was Moyes who decided he wanted to bring in his own men.

This to me shows that Moyes may have underestimated the size of the task infront of him

Imo he has changed too much too soon. Apparently Rene has had a disagreement with the club over his compensation, so we have probably burned our bridges there.

For me the loss of Steele and Rene has had a big effect on out start to the season. Rene was very close with RvP, and if we're honest he hasn't looked happy all season, getting into fights/arguements with players and refs alike.

Then today we here that apprently DDG is still abit homesick, he was very close to Steele. Is moving Steele on the best idea when he has helped turn our goalkeeper into one of the best in the league in only a couple of seasons.

Moyes could have kept Rene and Steele and could have still brought in Phil Neville and Steve Round as people he knew and trusted but would have still had some experiance in his coaching staff.

It seems that Moyes first mistake may have been his first decisions when taking the role.

If we lose against Shaktar then the game against Sunderland(who are without a win in the league) becomes a must win game as we can't afford to lose four games in a row.

If we don't get 4 wins out of our next 5 games then Moyes could be in serious trouble. The club just can't afford to miss out on champions league qualification, its not just the financial cost but it will effect our ability to attract the kind of talent we need to improve our squad.

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Unless Moyes' intended to break the team up, he should have kept Rene at least. Rene knew the players' inside out. He could have been a big asset for Moyes'

I hope Moyes see's sense, and tries to bring him back to the club.

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Rene M was offered a position that was really a demotion, if I remember it was in charge of one of the younger teams.

He didn't want to go backwards in his career so decided to leave

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30 Sep 2013 12:22:02
Interesting times at the moment and think dm has big decisions to make with regard to some squad members. I am starting to wonder if we would be better off playing one up top and having 5 in midfield (as long as two of the five break forward like kags or adnan). At the moment we are playing 442 but have no runners from midfield which makes it easy for the opposition and other than januzaj no one takes on their man. I appreciate that either rooney or rvp will not appreciate being benched but this is about what's best for united not individuals.

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I don't understand why you think it would be a good idea to bench one of our best players?

Surely the better way to go is to utilise a way of playing which gets the best out of having both Rooney and RVP on the pitch at the same time?

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Andrew b as much as I would like to play both rvp and Rooney I personally believe we could do with another body in midfield (who must be prepared to run with the ball, and try to take on opposition players).Rooney could play this role but I don't think he would be happy to do so. I much prefer the idea of Carrick, fellaini and cleverley sitting with kags and adnan providing support to the frontman. Just my humble opinion and people will have their own equally valid ideas but what ever moyes chooses I hope our performances improve.

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Andrew

What is the point of having two strikers on the pitch when we are creating hardly anything from open play and getting run over in midfield and conceding goals.

I agree with the 5 man midfield idea and have been saying ti for a while. You can only play 442 if you have guys like pogba/vidal combination who cover a lot of ground back and forth and can run with anyone.

People will say in Bayern's case Martinez/schweinsteiger are not the fastest but they are great in terms of positioning and very physical and their centre backs are not short of pace.

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Bookredmole abd God Created Utd, I agree with both of you but its possible to address both the problems you identify and have Rooney + RVP upfront.

Many posters including me have been talking about a 4 3 1 2 set up. This provides bodies in midfield and plays to the strengths of our full backs who are better at going forward than defending and so can provide the width.

For me it will show how good a manager Moyes is as to whether he can get his head of his 4 4 2 backside and implement a system which makes the most of what he's got.

It's blindingly obvious we need three in midfield 'cos any two of what we have can't cope. Its also obvious we have a problem defending at left back. Furthermore, everyone can see we are strong up front with some useful creative players who can play just behind.

i'm not suggesting Moyes should always use whatever system is appropriate but for the time being he needs to innovate something until he can bring more players in to strengthen the team and elimate the weaknesses.

We've seen Rogers devise a 3 4 1 2 system to suit his immediate circumstances from the players he has available. We know he prefers 4 3 3 but he has two excellent strikers and a shortage of fit fullbacks so he's adapting like a good manager should and its working for him.

Time for Moyes to show he's got just as much gumption (never thought i'd be praising the liverpool manager over the utd manager. weird how things turn out sometimes!)

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30 Sep 2013 12:19:36
Its very easy to jump on David Moyes head but a lot here know the problems have been inherited so its rather unfair on him. Yes maybe David isn't as experienced as in some of his team choices but you have got to remember this guy has taken from not only the best manager in the world but probably the greatest manager of all time so let's cut him some slack. Remember Fergie needed time as well.

The team needs rebuilding and arguably you could count the top players on one hand so he knows the extent of the problems in United plus the ones we don't see and if he is brutally honest would say United need 7/8 quality players.

Yes its very frustrating but Fergie was able to paper over many cracks so as long as he's backed in the transfer market Moyes will pull it around.

We should be more worried with our recent transfer shambles and hope that is put right than Moyes abilities.

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Moyes' seems like he don't really have much of a clue at the moment. He looks tactically naive; the players' look like that don't have a clue about what their roles are; and to make matters worse, we look more disjointed then we did at the start of last season, which is a worry considering Moyes' is meant to be this defensive mastermind.

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30 Sep 2013 12:16:22
The schedule is to blame, how dare they give us WBA at home so early in the season!

RedSince68

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30 Sep 2013 12:10:40
Are United in crisis? No. The transitional season was always going to be a tough one, especially given that the squad left behind wasn’t that strong, compounded by United’s failure to secure their top transfer targets this summer. It is unfair to harshly and prematurely judge David Moyes in this context. He is probably showing a bit of tactical naivety though, for example opting for a two man central midfield against such an athletic and strong Manchester City midfield.

Talk of writing United off completely is still premature. We are the champions and even with such a poor start it is highly likely that whilst retaining the might be beyond us, we will still finish in the top four. The fact Moyes was awarded a six year deal suggests that we are prepared to back him through his contract, but the board need to back him in the transfer window to help him steer United in the direction he wants to take the side.

The big issue is United are clearly more vulnerable than they should be at the back. Three of our best defenders, the three who were the corner-stone of our recent domestic dominance; Rio Ferdinand, Patrice Evra and Nemanja Vidic are now on the wrong side of 30. Ferdinand had a renaissance last season but was poor against West Brom and Man City in recent weeks. Aside from these defenders Johnny Evans is capable but there is a lack of a real top class centre-back to call upon to replace Ferdinand as Phil Jones and Chris Smalling are not quite the finished article.

Another concern is that the ‘fear factor’ appears to be gone. West Brom came to United and attacked quite aggressively, running at the defense and looking to exploit the clubs weaknesses. In previous years, under Fergie, teams would come and defend deep, fearful of being hit on the break if they ventured forward. One side who attacked us Old Trafford last year was Spurs, who won 3-2 and even back them grossly exposed weaknesses in the back four. If teams continue to do this and United don’t reorganize this, it might not be the first time that the club drop points at home.

Moyes came out and said that the side did not have a chance to compete for the Champions League given that they lacked sufficient quality. This is not entirely untrue. Even though United won the league last season there is a feeling that Sir Alex Ferguson was holding things together and getting the best out of what was at times a below par squad (by United’s high standards). Players like Ashley Young, Nani, Antonio Valencia, Chris Smalling, Phil Jones, Danny Welbeck, Anderson and Tom Cleverley have all looked like they might not be the required quality for United at times, particularly in big games.

The back five is still very good, but as noted above three of the four defenders are the wrong side of 30 and on the decline, with none of the replacements as good as those players were in their prime. Robin van Persie is still a top striker but he is the wrong side of 30 also, whilst Wayne Rooney is a quality, yet at times frustrating player. It is in the midfield where there is a real lack of quality. Michael Carrick is a good midfielder but none of the wide options look good enough and Marouane Fellaini doesn’t look like a natural fit alongside Carrick. Moyes also looks like he is not sure where to get the best out of Shinji Kagawa.

Overall its at least 2 experienced Defenders and Midfielders to be able to compete again in my honest opinion

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Its not a transition mate.

Look at Spurs. Sell their best, most influential player and bring in what, 7-8 new players? That's a trasition and they are flourishing.

We just don't have a good squad and now, with a lesser manager and coaching staff in place, it's showing.

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However you phrase it the club is going through drastic changes.

Most people here will agree that Moyes should of been backed in the market this summer. He wasn't. Whoever's fault it was is yet to be seen.

I think as a result Moyes brought in who was familiar(Fellaini) to help bolster the midfield and is trying to Motivate the Average players that are there by giving them playing time to breath confidence.

And now that tactic hasn't worked is writing them saying they aren't good enough, maybe to motivate them to prove him wrong.

I think some decisions will get easier for him though. Drop young, Get Zaha in there with Adnan.

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I don't buy all this transition talk.

I have tried to remain calm and enthusiastic about our season; but all of that was blown out of the water on Saturday.

We won the bloody league last season by 11 points. Nothing has really changed. The teams around haven't really changed. Yet, we look miles behind the North London clubs, who finished miles behind us last season.

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Samthered, I think you'll find that more changed this summer than at any other time in premier league history.

three top clubs change manager. City spend £100m+ and add 4 quality players, Spurs do the same and bring in 6, Arsenal spend £42m on one player! Chelsea have added some more quality and even Liverpool have improved their squad significantly in the last 12 months.

What's more, the improved TV revenue has enabled smaller teams like Norwich, Southampton, Swansea and Cardiff to get the checkbook out in a big way.

While all this has been going on, we've lost the best manager in premier league history, brought in a novice as CEO and all our players are a year older and some of them really look it. Oh yeah, we bought an average midfielder as well.

Other than that, I guess there's not been much change.

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30 Sep 2013 11:38:03
hi ed's didn't log in on my replay on a post before this one, could u please let it go trough thank's zee:)

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30 Sep 2013 11:27:40
The level of over reaction on here is insane. Its how many games into the season and people are calling for Moyes's head!
We have been very lucky to have such a constant figure for us over the past 25 years. Now when things are not going our way we are crying for his head. Its fickle. everybody on here knows we are most definitely in transition. And what happens to a club when they are in transition? Things become difficult, New Manager New Staff and Hopefully New players, its always going to be difficult, I know this is going to take time to work out but calling for a new manager already is just going to reset any progress that DM has made so far, Time is necessary to do something right.
If Moyes was Sacked what exactly do people on her think would happen? Someone else would come in and look to implement their own brand, bring in their own staff and Shake things up just as DM has done. So rather then getting behind the man trying to change our Club for the better people are calling time on his United Career.
Granted his tactics have been a bit off, He is experimenting with line ups aswell as tactics as all managers do until they find one they deem to be a winning one. Moyes just hasn't found it yet and working with the players day in and day out I am sure he would know more about their qualities than most on here.
It is frustrating watching us falter but we will come back from it. Patience is a virtue and all that!

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30 Sep 2013 12:51:53
If Moyes do gets the sack. some one esle would come and would first sell some deadwoods out from the club and would bring in some real quality players.
What on earth is Fellaini valued at 29 mill is beyond me, why were we short on LB, Evra needs to go so as Rio. why is Johnes played all over the pitch?
and common Kagawa is superb little player, who isn't getting a game ahead of whom?
We just looked like an embarassment in Transfer market last summer being the champion. Turned down by abrca on 4 occassions, tuerned down by almost all clubs and ended up paying 29 mill for Fellaini?

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Moyes wanted to find out what he had to work with first before deciding to sell anyone, He needed to asses the entire Squad and identify what was needed, he tried to address the midfield area with the purchase of Fellaini, Many fans are still split over him, And Kagawa has not got a game because when he has played he hasn't played well.
If we just throw money at a problem it will not fully solve our problems.
Moyes is going about certain aspects of the job the right way.
Also players can't be sold if their is nobody will to buy them. Its not as easy as FIFA to sell players in real life!

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30 Sep 2013 11:04:47
With Fergie gone I think it has now highlitghted just how important he was. He won us 25-30 points a season getting the best out of average players and his never give up attitude.
With him not there anymore it has really highlighted just how bad some of these players really are.
The likes of Anderson, Nani, Buttner and Young should be moved on, they are just not good enough.
We need at least 3-4 players, and I mean real players of real quality.
In my opinion at least one new winger, one or two midfielders and a left back.
Im not going to get on Moyes back, I think that he deserves some time to try and get things right, we should really judge him on where we are in January and what kind of players he is going to bring into the club.
I have to admit it was terrible on Saturday and I came out of the ground completely gutted and deflated with the whole thing.

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Simmo

He has brought in Fellaini for 27.5 so let's see how he pans out this year. No excuses like new league, new country blah blah.

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It's a confidence issue more than anything Simmo. The pressure on Moyes is filtering down through the squad. We certainly need more players. I said Baines and Thiago plus Fellaini would have made a big difference this season. I was never a big fan of Fellaini like you and one or two others, but I did think he would solve part of the midfield issue. For me Thiago and Baines would have made us much stronger and the club failed to make these happen. Saturday the manager clearly played a weakened team and that came back to bite us on the ass.

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Wheeyy your back, where have you been?

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A weekend on the JD. Try and keep up ;)

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Syd you seem to be constantly skirting around the fact that Moyes is drowning and dragging the team down with him. He is failing at every possible level.

He failed in the transfer market, jettisoning SAF's targets and not being able to secure his own ones. He failed in the staffing department, ignoring SAF's advice and sacking a world class coaching team in favour of Everton nobodies. He has failed in tactics and team selection, playing an outdated rigid formation, consistently selecting the wrong mean and misjudging the opposition. He has failed in the media, flip flopping between having a squad capable of challenging on all fronts, and having a team lacking two or three in the starting 11 and a squad capable of competing with Europe's best. And worst of all he is failing his players, publicly undermining them, and refusing to hold his hand up and admit that he is the one getting things wrong.

It is a confidence thing, but not in the way you suggest. In the past we scooped up points because teams feared facing Fergie's United sides. Now we can see a huge change, teams are quickly realising that Moyes's United are beatable and the fear is no longer there. Teams are taking the game to us because they recognise that Moyes's tactics have blunted our attack and that our defence is ageing and lacking pace. It was so evident last weekend when we equalised: last season the opposition would have gone on the defensive, hoping to hold on for a draw, this year they feel like they can win the match because we lack the teeth to put them to the sword.

We probably aren't good enough to win in Europe and I would doubt that we will win the league with the current set-up. But there is no reason for the manager to be saying that in the media for any reason other than he wants to deflect blame from himself. But the blame is Moyes's and his alone: he saw the weaknesses in the squad and failed to act decisively.

And people are not judging Moyes on 6 games, we are judging him on the mediocracy he has produced for the last decade at Everton, and has brought with him to United.

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30 Sep 2013 12:55:46
I just don't get why peopl think Moyes needs time, more time and more time after every defeate?
1. he is coming from the same league
2 he is an experienced manager in the EPL.
3. he has taken over the champions, not a club from the bottom league to turn the corner.
4. he had amble time in the transfer market to buy players.
5. and we lost to clubs whom we never lost in the past.
6.How is time going to help him, If his buys and some players continues to produce average performance?
7. He needs to get his formation right.

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Moyes' biggest mistake for me was not sanctioning the Thiago move. Baines, Thiago and Fellaini would have improved our weakest areas. That being said he will make mistakes and he will need to learn from them quickly. He needs time and needs to be judged at the end of the season.

Fans have every right to voice their concerns, but for me it will be MU's downfall if it continues. Fans booing and getting irate will not benefit MU in any way. People have every right to an opinion, but it's what will ruin us in the long run if it continues. We need to give him a full season, if he fails then people can act.

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Re - 'Where has Sydney been'

Sydney, you got two logins now or something?

Think I'd find it a bit creepy if someone else was posting using the login 'where has Andrew B been'

What's the story with this?

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Moyes should have bought a creative cm we have struggled in this area for years .
But to be fair many on this site wanted a Defensive cm

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Syd, that has been trotted out at various stages since the Glazers took over. We shouldn't criticise their unethical buying of the club, their lack of investment in transfers, their focus on financial success rather than on pitch success and so on, because our criticism will only harm the club. But the counter balance is that the management of the club as a whole is already damaging our chances of sustained success, and we shouldn't ever turn a blind eye to this.

Now I can concede that there is very little fans can do about the Glazer ownership. But if we see that the team is being managed by someone incapable of doing the job, then I think we have a responsibility to question the wisdom in allowing that person to rest on the laurels of their 6 year contract. I am not advocating booing at the ground, that is silly and childish. And I do actually accept that Moyes will have at least one year at the helm to prove himself. But this year is a probation period and so far Moyes is failing badly.

I think fans need to let the club know that they are not willing to turn a blind eye to incompetent management, especially when the manager starts to publicly criticise his players. That way, if Moyes does not get his act together in the next 12 months, the club will be left with no choice but to bring in someone up to the task.

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I agree that the fans have every right to ask questions of their manager, but the more the fans overreact, the more pressure will be piled onto the manager and players. Criticism will not help our season, it will damage it.

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Syd
It's called pressure if they can't handle it there at the wrong club

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Jred, we wanted a REALLY GOOD defensive midfielder.

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AndyB
Watching us this season and the lack if possession and creativity do you think it is a DM we are missing?

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Jred, short answer is yes, but that's only part of it because like you say we also lack creativity and someone who can control possession and boss the game.

its the schweinsteiger and Martinez, busquets and xavi, Keane and scholes we are lacking more than anything else, although I think the problem is even bigger than that .

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30 Sep 2013 10:35:37
Might sound a daft question, but with Young playing as poor as he has been, why don't we give Büttner a chance on the wing? I know we've had him playing left back but with Fabio returning, surely Evra will have enough competition? He might link up with Rooney/Van Persie better, because Young seems to have a habit of cutting back on to his right foot and going for the top right corner glory strike/

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Buttner is not good enough for a top 10 side mate and a complete waste of money if you ask me.Nani, young, welbeck o the left are still miles better than him, which is not saying much.

If the Baines deal genuinely broke down as matter of 5 or 6 million, you have to wonder why we paid 4.5 extra for Fellaini and 3.5 million for Buttner.

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Fair enough, it was just something I had considered because of how bad young has been lately. But then again I'm ill so I'm probably just going delirious haha. To be honest I reckon this is just a 'test the bath water' season for moyes.

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I think we need to spend some money in Janurary and teams like Bilbao, Inter have players who are not cup tied and are gettable if we put enough money on the table. {Ed002's Note - Seems you also have an extremely naïve view of the transfer process.}

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I think we get frustrated with our wingers because we are so reliant on them unlocking things for us.

We are not a threat through the middle as non of midfielders make any runs and we tend to sit back and protect the back four.

Teams tend to stack the wings and make it very difficult for our wingers especially given our slow build up.

Young and Valencia, who are one trick ponies tend to run out of ideas when other teams do that. With young you just need to show him the outside and not allow him to come in and with Valencia it is exactly the opposite and pretty much take them out of the game.

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Buttner was yet another attempt to replace a key player (Evra) with a bargain-bin purchase. See Djemba-Djemba, Kleberson, Bellion etc.

Once in a while, these type of buys are a success but more often than not, you get what you pay for.

Scouts in Europe were shocked when we signed Buttner. He wasn't even considered a top prospect in the Dutch league, far from it.

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I think the only mistake moyes made was saying it was great how the owners didn't put a limit on what he could spend. I'm sure he will do well and hope so too, but fergie was very quiet and tactical about his transfer business.

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30 Sep 2013 10:34:55
I know it's been said before, but I think losing SAF & Gill at the same time has caused a lot of uncertainty at boardroom level, and United would have had a much better window if Gill had at least stayed for Moyes first season. The disruption caused by the lack of continuity can only be blamed on the Glazers.

My only criticisms of Moyes so far would be that he doesn't seem to know what to do with Kagawa, and buying Fellaini smacked a little bit of desperation. Other than that it's just too early to say. He needs to really make a statement in January and get a couple of top players in though.

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30 Sep 2013 10:19:41
Im all for giving Moyes a chance and i'm totally behind the manager. I am concerned by our start and I would be a liar if I said I wasnt.

The problem is if we have a disastrous season and finish outside the top 4 then Moyes will get sacked. The reason for this is because it would be our worst league finish since 1991 as since then the lowest we have finished in the league is 3rd.

Not finishing in the top 4 would be an absolute nightmare for us and we need to get our act together and fast as I really had us bouncing back to win 3-0 against the baggies on saturday but it was not to be.

The worrying thing for me is the boss has no idea on his first choice 11 and he has been at the helm since july 1st and that is a concern. In all honesty though I do believe we will hit the ground running but I do not see us winning the title if we could get 2nd or 3rd and an fa cup win then invest in the side I would be very happy.

Finally we need januzaj's contract sorted out ASAP as I can see us losing him otherwise. Fit kagawa rooney van persie all into the team and get it going we need flair players in the team to play exciting football and not this slow predictable easy to play against style. It is not nowhere near all Moyes's fault as we have been very boring to watch for last few years under fergie and pretty much since ronaldo and tevez left.

Come on United fans let's get behind our team and manager as they need us more than ever now and let's get back firing up the table

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There is never a question of not being behind the team or the manger. Does anyone in their right mind want DM to fail unless you are a sick individual.

Having said that there is no way I would want him here if we fail to nail down a top 4 spot in the pl this year.

I hope and pray for us and him that we get a draw at Shakhtar. A win would be ideal and take a lot of pressure off of him and the players go a long way in guaranteeing qualification and then we can try and focus on the league.

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Yes exactly he will be given a chance. It is a transition in terms of coaches and managers but in terms of players there is very little difference to last year other than Fellaini arriving. If a transitional year brings us 2nd or 3rd place and we do bring in fresh talent in then Moyes deserves to stay.

On the other hand if a transitional season means we slip out of the top 4 then IMO he was never the man for the job but I am hoping he can pull it out of the bag.

I am quietly optimistic its a tough tough game away in the Ukraine then after that we have sunderland away and stoke, southampton at home.
We MUST win them 3 games to start to gather a bit of momentum

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I agree with everything you said and if we finish 3rd even, I would be quite happy and think he has done well in his first season.

I have not watched Shaktar this year and had Sociadad qualifying with us from the group and was really surprised when they lost at home to Shaktar.

Having watched a sociadad now a couple of times, they are clearly struggling and quite disjointed. Both teams have lost their best player, so hopefully we will get a good result.

A win would be massive and you are absolutely correct we need to win the next 3 in the league.

November will either break or make our season IMO as we have 2 away fixtures in the CL, arsenal at home and 2 more away fixtures in the league.

Given our start anything but wins will see us lose more ground.

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Definitely mate!

I think a lot of people are getting over excited also about Arsenal's start as they have only faced Spurs just at the start of the season and other than that not really had a hard game.

They should be judged after they play a few big games. The problem this season I don't think anyone is that great so I really did think the title is there for us to take if we knuckle down but not the way we are playing at the moment.

Yes have to agree with Sociedad they look pretty average at the moment in La Liga, full credit to Atletico though as they look like world beaters.

November is a tough month mate your dead right there if we can get a good October under our belts also with a good November and also pull off a win over the gunners at home and we could then start to shape our season. Moyes will then start to gather some confidence and it can fire the players up going into Xmas and then we will kick on into the new year. Come on United!

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30 Sep 2013 10:04:15
With Moyes starting with Rio and Evans and then saying Vidic is the best defender he has ever worked with, does that mean the defence to start in Ukraine will be Smalling and Vidic? For me that is our best CB pairing and I think we will see Jones at RB, Smalling and Vidic at CB and Evra at LB. Carrick and Fellaini in the middle. Valencia & Welbeck on the wings and RvP & Rooney upfront. Moyes clearly underestimated WBA and thought a weakened side would get the points.

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You think Jones at RB.

has to be raf. looked sharp in his first game back and jones gets caught out of position to easily.

watch him and you will see h drifts into the middle too much.

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30 Sep 2013 09:28:33
I got to have some sympathy for Moyes, he is taking on arguably the biggest job in football taking over from arguably the greatest manager in the history of the game. He had some knackers to bring in his own people, adopt his own philosophy and put try to put his own stamp on the club, which I can't blame him for. In his first game you titled him the chosen one (No pressure David) with banners all round the ground obviously expecting some kind of revelation which unfortunately guys doesn't happen over night. Mr Ferguson didn't have the greatest of starts, he was branded a failure in his first 3 years (I think it was), unfortunately patience is no longer in the game. Results are expected immediately, If your to blame anyone its that Woodward fella for not concluding enough business in the summer not Moyes. Give the guy a couple of years, he might surprise a few people although as a Liverpool supporter, I certainly hope not!

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The difference was SAF had to rebuild not just the first team but the whole club so understandably needed 3 years especially as we had lost 3 of the first 6 games under Atkinson!

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30 Sep 2013 09:05:57
if it is true what the papers say and I say if. saf told moyes to keep majority of coaching staff and pleaded with him to do so then moyes in my eyes deserves to be sacked if this poor style of play and results do not turn around I think it will be curtains for moyes

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At this stage you can't really believe what you read in the papers has the summer not proved that to you.Regardless what happens this season whether we win something or what position we finish get used to the fact that DM is going nowhere.

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Our ex goalkeeping coach said that and it is not the papers making it up. It is a direct quote from him.

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Here it is:

"I didn't want to leave. Why would I?" Steele told Manchester United fan magazine United We Stand.

"You've just been part of a team that has had a great season and won the league. David de Gea's had his best season.

"Does it make sense that you're not retained to continue the good work? Sadly, that's out of my hands."

The club's struggles in both the league and in the transfer window have somewhat vindicated detractors who feel Moyes may have bitten off more than he can chew with step up.

Steele partially agrees with the sentiment, adding: "He spoke to me, Mick and Rene. He listened to the manager's [Sir Alex Ferguson's] advice, but he wanted to be his own man.

"You had the United perspective – the manager saying: 'Keep what we've got, keep the continuity, work with them and they'll guide you through. You're taking on a massive machine here. You've gone from Marks and Spencer's to Harrods'."

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30 Sep 2013 09:05:49
Don't panic lads Darren Fletcher is back training and impressing DM he will no doubt be fast tracked to the first team.

If Rio or Young start another game for us then Moyes must be blind they are liabilities Rio has completely lost it where as Young was one of Fergies very strange purchases and in a way sums up why we are in the position we are today. buying players who are simply not United standard.

Its worrying how many players we have that simply are either too old or just not good enough Rio Evra Young Nani Anderson Cleverly Welbeck and Giggs and its that very list that in a way puts some of the blame at Fergies door DM has inherited a lot of deadwood and in all honesty is most likely not good enough a manager to fix it and Moyes himself was Fergies last big mistake to bring to the club.

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30 Sep 2013 06:42:33
For me the season is already over.
I for once have been very optimistic through the past 10 years of supporting this great club but saturday was a new low.
I have been reading the comments on this website and could agree more with the ones mentioned below.
1. RvP is not enjoying his current run in the game and so is Hernandes & Kagawa. This is very clear in their body language. (I saw Rooney Smiling in the warm up sessions, may be he is getting all the attention)
2. Not winning a trophy for a year is ok but finishing out of the top 4 has financial implications as well. (loosing on CL money on top of amount lost for not winning PL. I guess we have certain amount of funding promised by the sponsors provided we finish top 4 atleast.)
3.Some of the players how ever are enjoying new faith from the manager (Smalling, Fellaini, Rooney) some are useless and getting chances (nani, anderson, buttner)
and some are not able to show their quality( Zaha, RvP, Kagawa, Hernandes)
In short managing the biggest club in the world is not Moyes's cup of Tea.
Please don't hammer me, its a true perception of how I see things at the moment.
Next Manager please

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30 Sep 2013 08:54:17
Havent seen any difference made by Fellaini. 28 mill pounds.

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30 Sep 2013 08:55:09
The worst fact is Take UTD out and still have 4 top teams for the Top4, Arsenal, city, chelsea and Spurs.

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Dear mr feared
unfortunately you want to sack a manager here dealing with sir alex legacy and sir alex players
so where does it end?
ngiak thinks you deserve to support Real Madrid or chelsea or man city as that is their Modus operandi
moyes is still feeling out his squad
he is still finding out about his new job and surroundings
the screw ups of mr woody did not help
if he got the 4 players he was supposed to get it would be different
and things could have further been improved in January by getting rid of sulking deadwood
time and support for a new man is required
that's the least we could do
ngiak hopes the facts can sink into some fair weather fans who have not been around before the mid 90s
the players need to be replaced or sent off
lotsa changes are needed. most are the fergie era ones anyway
gan

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30 Sep 2013 08:58:47
I understand the fact that Moyes needs time, But let's be honest.He is from EPL, having 11 years of experience being a manager. The only difference, he is managing UTD.

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'The season is already over?'

Don't post until May then. It is September, we are 3 points befind City and 4 behind Chelsea, it has been a rubbish start but bloody hell grow up.

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Dear Gan,
Faith & Outcome are 2 totally different things.
I had faith in God I would never have cavity in my tooth, as it turned out I had 2.
If things happened as they are supposed to be, the world would be a different place to live.
If Ronaldo came back & IF Messi signed for us, we would have been on Top of the world.
Critisism is Fair where it is deserved.
GDS, I am the first person who would like to be proven wrong, but with the looks of it, we may finish top 4 at best!

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30 Sep 2013 11:34:32
mr moyes sent that legacy out the window when he let the hole saf backroomstaff go.that what his biggest mistake and brought everton staff and if u are happy being playing like everton then good 4 u, btw why should utd play like everton we should play with flair and attacking fotball.i will wait and then see when utd are playing like everton and trying their best 2 get a draw then, I will jugde them. ps: I don't wanna become everton our players does not like playing our training like everton used 2 do, they are enjoying that they are even better without moyes and they are even playing better then they used 2 without moyes.am I the only one who is worried that we are becomeing even worse then everton and no manager complain's as much as moyes.the team is not good hellooooooo moyes maybe it's u and not the team, moyes and his gang steve round and p. neville wow I can see us reaching the champions league final and winning the league, not. zee {Ed002's Note - You need to log in.}

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30 Sep 2013 02:02:26
I think everyone knew deep down that this bad start had the potential to happen. It almost seems like a perfect storm. fergie retiring, new manager taking over after 26 years of stability, very average squad for the most part, awful transfer window, difficult opening fixtures etc. so honestly I really can't say i'm surprised at the way it's gone so far. I think the real problem I have is the way the team is playing, and has been playing for the last 3 or 4 years. Fergie covered a lot of it up with the simple fact that he kept getting results, without ever really playing that well with any consistency. There have been maybe a handful of games over the last few seasons where I was excited by the way we played, and isn't that why we all watch football? It's about entertainment for me anyway and over the last few years I simply haven't been enjoying watching us anywhere near as much as I used to, and I have supported united since 1979. Christ the teams in the 80's were more exciting to watch than they are now, and we were rubbish back then! I guess it comes down to what you want from your team. I would take several 4-3's with the result going either way rather than a string of boring 1-0 wins. That's just my opinion but surely I can't be the only one who is uninspired by the way we have been playing for the past 4 years?

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Spot on. Ever since the sale of Ronaldo when the proceeds were not reinvested in the squad, many of us have suspected that given the level of debt the funds were not genuinely available, and that this day was ultimately inevitable. We were all looking for something in the summer beyond a derisory purported offer for Fabregas, and the signing of Fellaini.

Without the players to generate excitement, with a manager who does not have the tactical nous to compete at the highest levels or the vision to purchase well, and what appears to be bad blood between RVP and Rooney, it is hard to see anything but a progressive decline.

We have had a great run and in many ways we shouldn't complain if the baton is shifted - if it was just about the football it wouldn't be so bad. My greatest fear remains that the decline will lead to a complete breakdown in the financial position of the club and that if the Glazers don't do something dramatic, we could be headed the way of Rangers.

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Peashooter, MU could never do a Rangers whilst under ownership of the Glazers. Anyone who has the smallest of idea of how the financial side works would know that. It was a poor result and I cannot comment on the performance as I missed the game. The only part I got to see was Fellaini straying offside onward. Disappointing, but I cannot believe some of the stuff I have read on here. The board need to back Moyes this winter and buy him the players that he wants, but anyone who thinks Moyes will be sacked this season doesn't know how MU work.

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Clearly it depends on results. A CL berth and a few good cup runs and the economics will be okay this season. But long term no CL and unexciting players will = sponsor withdrawal + empty seats + lack of new quality players, which will accelerate any decline. Under those circumstances, the loss of revenue could make the debt unserviceable and the Glazers will have to sell or take the club down.

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Sydney

If we finish outside the top 4 80% likely hood he gets sacked depending on where we finish. If we miss CL qualification from group stages and drift away from the top 4 as the season goes on, 100% sacked and will not be a united manger come May.

Before you start arguing for those 2 things to happen, it will mean we will have a run of very poor results and one shock after another and If you think Benitez was treated poorly, the fans will crucify Moyes and he will be gone.

Needless to say Financially he will murder us if that happens and you can't go from 1st to nothing and as you keep telling everyone we have a great squad, so how does manchester united work and what is their tolerance level for that kind of seismic failure.

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Peashooter, that is all fantasy and quite frankly ridiculous.

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Shahram, MU won't finish outside the top four so it's a bit of a pointless post.

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Sydney

Let's theoretically say we did, do you see him keeping his job?

You know my view, always though we would have to fight it between 3rd or 4th and top 2 out of the question IMO.

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I think he would keep his job if there were no player versus manager issues. But I think we will comfortably finish within the top four so I do not believe it's an issue.

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I would be very disappointed if we keep him if we do not finish top four and firmly in Redman and Nomidfield and some of the other camp then :).

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Syd
It was only a couple of days you argued we would win the league .
Top 4 will be tight this year United city spurs Chelsea arsenal even the scouse could all have a shout

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Jred, I said today that we will win the league and I believe we will. City are the benchmark and they are just three points ahead of us. Some very bizarre overreactions on here today. If you seriously believe Liverpool will be a threat to our season then you must be going a bit dizzy.

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Syd
I think the scouse will push for top 4 but will prob end up 5/6 but I think they will be lot closer than last year .
Suarez sturridge and couthinho will be a handful and Gerrard and Lucas are a decent pair. A lot will depend on injuries though same goes for arsenal.
A bit dizzy, well like I always say let's wait until the end of the season

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This coming from a man who says Liverpool will finish 20 odd points behind United. Get real. Your as deluded as the rest and probably more so

Most of the United fans can be honest with their assessment of David "The one" Moyes, and they can also be honest on the fact that, actually, you just aren't a very good team. IMO, you brought in fuzzy head, and that was a big mistake. He's not up to it. You needed much more

The only world class player you have now is RVP. Your defenders are shocking, and Vidic and Ferdinand are just like a training ground dummy's

What other good players do you have? None is the answer. The thing is, last season you won the league, but you weren't a great team. This season you have been found out and, and it's not going to get any better

Apart from fuzzy head, where is the transition? The new manager? Nah, Whisky nose will still be having his say i'm sure. I can see United still outside the top 4 up to and after Xmas, and if that proves to be the case, you won't get into it. One thing though is certain, you won't win the League, and looking at the season so far, you would have done well to get 4th!

Oh and you had a JD weekend is why you haven't been on? S##te! You can't take the criticism after your ridiculous predictions of winning the League with the best team in the league

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I think Liverpool will finish 6th at the very best. When they start hitting the more difficult games it will start to show. They are running on high confidence at the moment, whereas we are low on confidence. The gulf in class will start to show sooner than later.

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RD, I don't think I have ever read so much nonsense in one post.

MU will finish 20 points ahead of Liverpool. I have no doubt about that.

MU will win the league, at the very least we will finish second. You will be 6th.

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Syd
To be fair we have issues at the back and in cm and outwide.
We are a better team but gulf in class not so sure .
I can see positives in the scouse like I said the front 3 and Gerrard and Lucas.
There back 4 aren't great but aren't that bad.
There squad is a bit light so injuries could take a toll .

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