Manchester United Banter Archive February 03 2014

 

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03 Feb 2014 23:30:29
Do you guys on here not realise moyes is on the site.
He uses the name Betty swallocks.
Have you not noticed he will never criticise anything moyes does, defends wellbeck to the hilt despite everyone else knowing most clubs wouldn't swap a bag of peanuts for wellbeck.

Draig goch

Draig, where to f&@ did that come from? No relevance to the OP at all, and complete nonsense. I can only assume it is a case of mistaken identity. Either that or you are just a person.
I have defended Moyes for some, in my opinion, unfair criticism from serial negative posters like yourself. I have also stated that I think Moyes should, and will be given time to build his own team. I have also said on several occassions that Moyes would not have been my choice.
Onto Welbeck. If you, or any other poster can find any evidence of me EVER championing Danny Welbeck then please copy and paste it and re-post it here.

I am at a loss as to why you have felt it necessay to single me out today for no particular reason. Perhaps you were stuck on your homework and decided to come on here instead?

Now grow up and go to bed.

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Lol, this is a football banter site, why would anyone be getting worked up about what some other user said?

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I'm a big fan of Betty Swollocks even if she is David Moyes's alter ego, which is highly doubtful. So lay off mate, and show some respect!

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Ruud, I agree with you to an extent but let me be clear that I am not getting worked up by it. I posted that response because Draig for some reason decided to post nonsense on a thread that had no relevance whatsoever. If you visit the site regularly you will know that Draig usually posts nothing but negative hysterical rubbish. I have no problem bantering with people who have different views ( eg DannyP) but I try to balanced in my arguement. My main issue with Draigs post was the reference to Welbeck. I do not rate him and have never "bigger him up" on here, so was confused at to why a fellow poster would come on here, completely out of the blue, and claim otherwise.
I am happy to give, and take banter. That is why I use the site. But if people want to banter, then get their facts right and keep it relevant. Pretty straight forward really.

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04 Feb 2014 10:28:49
its getting more like a agony aunt page this.

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03 Feb 2014 21:58:49
Mourinho master class in tactics and team motivation, totally brilliant and shows what a top manager can achieve. How far are we from that level!

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Chelsea are doing what we did last year. Don't look convincing, but keep picking up the points. As you say, Jose is good at this kind of thing. Still wouldn't want him at United though

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We are a mile behind these teams. Jose played them when thought he would park the bus. Superb tactics. We have to accept, we are not in this class and won't be for years. they have better players and better managers. Anyone feeling confident of beating Fulham?

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I was just going to write that Red Man,
I also think Jose will have examined Moyes for many years and his style of play and knowing he won't be able to get the best out of Utd. That will be why he has sold him Mata as he knows the style and tactics won't be a threat to him for as long as either Moyes is Utd boss (6years Mata be 31) or unless Jose leaves Chelsea

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03 Feb 2014 22:11:36
Do you guys on here not realise moyes is on the site.
He uses the name Betty swallocks.
Have you not noticed he will never criticise anything moyes does, defends wellbeck to the hilt despite everyone else knowing most clubs wouldn't swap a bag of peanuts for wellbeck.

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Easy there, Chelsea are fortunate city are missing key players just in time. Tactics or quality of players on the pitch, I guess two different schools of thought.

We are 4 or 5 players away from being there and 150 million away. Chelsea have spend 350 million in the last 3 years mate.

It's kind of like the US navy not too difficult to hump everyone when you have the tools that other don't and and can hump everyone with it:)

Great result for chelsea but city will still win the league and if chelsea get injuries they will struggle.

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Really great example of modern football from both teams. Fast, interchangeable midfield, full backs are wingers and vice versa. Lessons to be learnt.

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Red Man well said my thoughts exactly and to think in the summer Mourinho was favourite to be our next manager and we got a very poor second!

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Moyes and Mourinho are even comparable as managers. But unfortunately for us the powers that be at our club are like the old gentry and too pc correct to employ someone who has somewhat of an eccentric nature.

He wasn't British enough for Bobby and the boys too rough, brash and not polished enough to allow to take the reigns of our great club. no they had a better idea give it to a guy with no pedigree of winning but he stayed at the same club for years and never hit the headlines.

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I think one point to mull over is that in February we can see what Mourinho's plan and style is and what a thorough tactically aware mind he has, yet at the same time we have no idea what Moyes is trying to do. We have fallen a long way behind and it is deeply disappointing

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FZZ

Are you for real with the mata theory, some of the stuff on this site is like kindergarden kids posting.

They went there and got a result and as Pellegrini said (not moyes because he makes excuses :)) their injuries hurt them and chelsea have spend more money than anyone and are a strong team and no matter what mourinho tries to imply he does when he says he does not have his ideal team yet but then again which manager does.

You lot are what Fergie used to refer to when he talked about the neighbors cow. Mourinho is genius, never mind he has a team that has cost a fortune to assemble.

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He was always my choice to take over from SAF.

This club needed a force of nature to get the best out of the squad after the boss left.

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Come on now gcu, the money excuse is getting boring, you spent over 60m on two players under moyes and gone backwards. You have to spend it wisely.
And plus city have spent more than anyone in te league in the last 4 years.

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Devil Dust, Did Ed02 not say that Mourinho was always going to Chelsea last summer? Which would make it immaterial if some wanted him here or not.

No-one doubts the guys tactical ability, and powers of motivation, but I'm with AJH, I still wouldn't want him about the place.

Not because he's not British, or too brash, but because he tried to gouge a fellow professional's eye out. If he did it on the street he would have been arrested. Do you really want someone like that managing the club?

Fair enough if you do, I suppose.

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GCU
It's not how much you spend, but how wisely. Hazard chose Chelsea over United because he preferred the project. He was much cheaper than Mata. Oscar was a great buy and Willian is not doing badly either. Ramirez is another excellent Brazilian buy. So that's 3 buys better than Anderson, etc. My point is that United has not bought well (with the odd exception of RvP) for the last 4 years
Fellainin at £27M was over-priced, even on his buy-out clause.
Still sad Red Setter

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GCU however you cut it JM is a far superior manager to DM. There's no point even discussing it!

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"GCU however you cut it JM is a far superior COACH to DM." Unitedred71 - fixed that for you.

Jose is a superb motivator and tactician but he isn't a manager in the sense that Fergie was. He's ideal for a moneybags club like RM or an Oligarc one like Chelsea but do you think Adnan would be getting a start under him? No chance.

United's post war DNA was built on developing young talent whether that's from within or bought in young. From the Babes to the class of 92 that's our heritage and Jose doesn't fit. If you want to change that for the Glory hunting, your choice but I don't. Bought in we've got Adnan, Raphael, Jones, Smalling etc. Developed we've Fletcher Evans, Welbeck etc. Last Chelsea academy product to be a regular (not all down to Jose)? John Terry!

As for the tosh about spending 60 mil and gone downhill - ones only played 2 games and the other has been injured more than fit.

I don't know if Moyse will cut it but good as JM is, he wasn't right for United (and ha, ha, he cried!). My choice would have been Pep but I think he was busy elsewhere.

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We don't want Mourinho but we are happy with moyes. What planet are you on? Are you actually serious about this comment? Because it is farcical in the extreme.

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If it's my comment you're referring to, NM, I've explained the reason why I don't want Mourinho, which is a fair enough reason I think.

And I'm not overly happy with Moyes.

In fact, I don't think anyone on here is saying they're happy with Moyes.

You're just putting words in peoples' mouths.

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GBJ why is wanting the team you support to win every game and every trophy considered glory hunting? If that's the case then yes I am 100% a glory hunter and I've been a glory hunter since the mid 70's. Of course the SAF era was far more productive:-)
My choice would've been Klopp. I think he would've been great for us.

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Just look at who Chelsea had on their teamsheet and compare that to what United have and you will see the light. The "tactics" Jose employed today would never have been possible with this lot of United players.

Chelsea had midfielders who had pace and power, and could put a tackle in. We have Tom Cleverley. They had wingers who could break at pace in Hazard, Willian and have Schurrle too. We have Ashley Young, Nani, Valencia who have been poor for a number of seasons now.

Didn't Everton beat City at Goodison last season when down to 10 men? All this Jose love in I see, he is a good manager, but not the reason Chelsea won today. It was a combination of having the right players and City missing Aguero and Nasri. Would have loved to have seen what Jose's tactics did to the likes of Young, Cleverley, Valencia, Nani etc.

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He was terrible at Real Madrid and make no mistake about it. He left Milan in a mess too. He is a good manager when he gets massive financial backing to do what he wants but the brand of football they play is quite ugly to watch and not sure we would be happy as it is defend first and counter attack.

Is he better than Arsene Wenger, I don't know even thought he has not won a trophy in 8 years. Give him 300 million over 3 years and see what he can do.

Money talks baby and there are no messiah in football. For those of you who say we have spend 60 million, please make those statements after we have added 4 or 5 players and the required investment and see how all the pieces fit.

This is the same Chelsea side who 2 or 3 years ago started rebuilding a very aged squad which is what we have at the moment. It has taken them time but they were gelling last year under Benitez and winning. They put another 120 million of investment into it over the last 2 windows.

Finally, if you don't believe missing Aguero, Paulinho, Nasri against a full chelsea squad is a big deal in a tight affair make a big difference, then I guess it is all the mangers genius.

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Oops meant to write Fernandinho and not Paulinho :)

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Lots of mangers get money nobody wins as much as Jose.
Pep is rated as a top manger and rightly so but he took over probably the best team in the world at Barcelona and spent a fourtune then took over the best team in the world at Munich and spent a fortune.

Even spending money buying the right players to fit a system is an art form and Jose is great at it.
I can understand why people don't like him but to question his managerial talents is ridiculous .
He has the best cv in football and if people can't see he is one of the very best managers in the world it shows a lack of understanding or just plain biased.

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Unitedred71- wanting your team to win every match and trophy isn't glory hunting but expecting them to and slating the manager when they don't is! Footie is like the economy and the rest of life - cyclical. Remember Fergies 2nd season we finished 2nd behind L'pool, bought Sparky back for a club record fee and finished . 11th!

OK, you didn't answer whether Adnan would be playing under Jose so here's another you might not want to answer, if Moyse had gone to the Bridge and played no recognised striker for 70odd minutes how would he have been slated on here? crucified more like! Just what Jose did at OT, he's a super tactician and motivator but very pragmatic and sometimes very boring - just not for us.

Looks can be deceptive but Klopp looks like he should be at Barton Moss telling people to frack off. He's done OK but this season he'd be getting the hook on here, 13 points behind BM. But how do you know he was available? Like my 1st choice Pep he may not have been.

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Georgie, you're wasting your time. Some of the ones on here just don't allow the humdrum of the real world in.

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Redsetter

I agree 100% we have bought poorly in the last 5 years and those players have not turned out wheat everyone hoped they would.

Ed002 said if I remember correctly fergie decided not to even bid for Hazzard for whatever reason. Fellaini is a lot better than people give him credit here and should be judged when he is back fully fit.

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03 Feb 2014 21:55:43
What does everyone make of Solskjaer's comments about Zaha? He says that if he works hard then he can be as good as Ronaldo - I wouldn't go that far but I really do think that he could be a special player and the sort of player that we need, someone similar to the abilities of Hazard.

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It's not that Zaha isn't at the same level as Hazard, they barely play the same sport.

Zaha is very talented, Hazard is a future ballon d'or contender.

Zaha's best attributes are his trickery and pace. Hazard is more skillful, just as quick, better passer, better dribbler, more productive, better shot and better close control. I would be very, very, very surprised if Zaha turned out anywhere as good as Januzaj, never mind Hazard, who imo is just as good as Goetze.

Comparing the 2 is like comparing Nani to Ronaldo.

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03 Feb 2014 21:54:59
As much as I dislike Mourinho and the way he gets his teams playing, tonight was near enough the perfect game plan

Job was made easier by Fernandinho not being there but they crowded the midfield and just forced City wide only for them to come back into the middle. Seems simple but they did it near enough perfectly

Wanted a draw personally so Arsenal can go on to win the league to show money counts less than developing players but this result makes me think that City might not going on to win the league which I'd expected from the start of the season. One day we'll be back up there challenging the very best and hopefully its not too far away

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To think we could have had mastic but moyes thought fellani was better. What a mistake. Also mouriniho is a master tactician in the big big games. Takes pressure off team before kick off by saying city are favoraites, and that they should walk away with league.
Pelagrini said it wouldn't be a problem if they lost this game.
Talk about motivation.
Why o why didn't we get Jose as manager?

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Because fergie's reputation would've been challenged. There's no danger of that with dithering dave in charge!

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Draig, Fellaini has played a handful of games, some with an injury.

How have you been able to come to such a definite judgement on a player, so quickly, and with so little visible evidence?

I'm sick of repeating myself, but all the big clubs in England were sniffing round him at one point or another, he's humbled a few clubs when at Everton, including us, and he's considered an integral part of a very good Belgium side.

But of course, it's Moyes mistake for bringing this pretty highly regarded player, by proper football people who know what they're talking about, to United.

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03 Feb 2014 21:45:49
Well looks like Chelsea found a player to match Yaya. Yet I was told Matic was just a more skilful version of Fellaini!

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He was cheaper than Fellaini as well, I think!

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Not sure who told you that, I always said he is a very good player.

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03 Feb 2014 21:25:28
2 Questions

1. Who do we want to win the title between City Chelsea and Arsenal?

2. Can we finish 4th?


JMO 1. I feel I should want Arsenal as the other 2 have sugar daddies but now Chelsea have sold Mata to us they are back in my good books plus RVP would be gutted if Arsenal won it the year after he left after 9 barren years so come on Chelsea.

2. I think we can. There are still 14 games to go plus this weekend could have gone worse if LLP and Spurs had won. Also the pressure will crank up - squeaky bum and all that. If Lpl don't get 4th then Suarez if off so imagine how their pressure is going to build up now. I think we will adopt the siege mentality and the winning instinct will finally kick in.

Cheers

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1. Arsenal, a proper club
2. No, too inconsistent

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1) Arsenal
2) No, I really don't think we can. Our strongest 11 (in my view) on paper is a very strong 11. We could have had it out at stoke barring Vidic, but we didnt.
I really can't see us getting 4th, not because the other sides are to good, but because were not good enough.

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1-arsenal
2-no chance

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1. If Arsenal win, and I prefer them to City or Chelsea, I fear they would gain the confidence to to do it again and again. Against us, Chelsea and City I don't think they have to belief but if they win the league they will.
2. Possible but a big ask now. 74/6 points will probably be needed and with only 42 to play for we can only afford to drop 6-8. If we can find some form, get/keep main players fit and learn to start winning again - YES but it's a long shot now.

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Arsenal.

Not likely, but still possible.

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City. They're a northern club.
And yes we can if we get our act together.

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Arsenal. Maybe but need a signature win along the way in the next few weeks. Arsenal away or city at home and no more losses till the end of season.

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03 Feb 2014 21:13:46
Anyone watching Chelsea vs City? Hazard has been absolutely magnificent. He just drives at the City defense and dribbles past everyone like no one's business. Hope Zaha can provide that for us next season ( obviously with much less quality ).

Matic has also been pretty impressive, not getting bullied by Toure and his passing is rather solid.

Question for everyone, who would you want to win the league? Arsenal would be my absolute last choice for a league win. If they manage to do so, they will keep getting better and it will give their young team a massive boost. Arsenal have the most to gain if they win it.

City and Chelsea are going to strengthen no matter what, even more so if they win nothing so for me it has to be one of the 2. I personally hope it's Chelsea.

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Sorry kick! I disagree. I can't stand Chelsea or City and everything no they stand for. I like Wenger and his philosophy and I live the way Arsenal play. I'd much rather they won it that City or Chelsea.

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I posted a very similar theme during the match. I agree re Hazzard and also want Chelsea to win the title now we cant. Plus they sold us Mata. I wonder if they will sell us Hazzard in the summer?

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Kick? Sorry Mick

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Colin you can't be serious now.

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AJH, I respect Arsenal much more than City and Chelsea, but I'm afraid if Arsenal start winning, they will not stop. They will strengthen, get better, and the kids they play now will gain vital winning experience, and Arsenal will become a more significant threat in the future.

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I know, Mick, and to think if Chelsea hadn't won the ECL that year, he could have been a Utd player :(

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03 Feb 2014 19:23:43
Eds, seen quite a lot about this supposed 1 billion dollar deal with nike lately. Would be a real boost in the transfer market if true - do you know if it's even remotely accurate?

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{Ed002's Note - There is no point going in to the finances.}

Ed Woodward turned down the first offer of 40-50m I think. I imagine it will end up over 70m p.a. probably lots more

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JJT

It's worth 45 billion over 5 years plus 100 pairs of boots for every player.

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03 Feb 2014 20:23:06
Just watching the City Chelsea game, surely Chelsea shouldn't be wearing blue. And for a top of the table clash, there is no atmosphere at all.

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03 Feb 2014 20:01:02
I fancy a Chelsea win 2nyt. A sneaky little 3/1 bet on them, as well as 50/1 on Matic to score first done seperately. Betfair

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03 Feb 2014 20:00:26
Take a look at United sightings, first picture! I just spotted it at the Emptihad, so thought i's share! ;)

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03 Feb 2014 19:48:14
Hats off to ngiak / gan for his post asking if you can get a sarky bugger at McDonalds. Well done my feathered friend.

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I wanted to laugh about it publicly, but Danny might have seen it as a sign of weakness.

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There you go again Stevie, mentioning your job and lacing your post with sarcasm and irony. You need to give it a rest and lighten up man.

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Stop it AJH. I'm chillin' just now :)

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03 Feb 2014 19:42:41
Ed, a couple of questions. Are these rumours of RVP being unhappy true? What do you make of Nani's comments? And finally is Nick Powell back with us or still at Wigan, I thought it was only a 6 month deal.

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{Ed004's Note - The RVP rumours don't think so not 100% though, what did Nani say and Powell is still at wigan as far as I'm aware}

Sorry, meant Anderson's comments about a lot of players wanting out.

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{Ed004's Note - It's been obvious for some time that Nani will leave}

The headline said "lots", Andow said others and quoted Nani only. No big surprise, brilliant on his day but for to long not many days.

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03 Feb 2014 19:35:56
I might receive a lot of abuse for saying this but we need to let Rooney go to evolve into a better style of play. Having to accommodate Rooney makes it more rigid.

Ideally, get in Reus, Shaw, Vidal, Garay. Even Kroos if we are being greedy.

Play Mata behind RVP, Reus on the left, Januzaj on the right (inverted wingers), full backs providing the width for the crossing. Vidal being the all action box to player while Carrick/ Kroos dictate the passing from deep.

I think this team and tactics would work very well.

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{Ed004's Note - If we could get those players in by sell Rooney I would 100% do it. However, I'd prefer Mangala to Garay and would another winger be required? I think young and Nani need to be sold Valencia as cover and Januzaj is young}

No abuse here, I agree. I'd be happy just to get Vidal and a LB! Although don't mind if he does stay. I also would take a chance on Janujaz, the boy has huge potential. I'm intrigued to see how we play when Fellaini is back. I honestly think he is the missing piece at the mo.

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03 Feb 2014 19:29:34
Just heard Roberto Martinez in the pre-match show and he said "Yes a win matters but the way we win matters the most"

Brilliant attitude and outlook towards football.

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03 Feb 2014 19:24:21
Everyone has it in for David Moyes. Some have been extremely clever in saying "Look he has spent 64 mil, and yet the team is playing this way." Well my friends 37mil of that has been at work just for 2 games and already has one fine assist. The remaining 27mil guy has been injured for half the season. Its the millions Sir Alex spent that are at work here, and they are not playing up to standard.

He needs a bit of luck, he really does. He has had none so far. Injuries haven't been kind to him. The man finally gets his 3 top players on the pitch at the same time along with his first choice central midfielder (perhaps the only central midfielder worth of any note available) and what does he get? His center backs crumble to injury and his team concede a deflected goal in the first 30 mins.

Then he has no option but to move Carrick out of position. Now it has been debated that Fletcher should have come on, but would it have made much difference? I don't think so. Sir Alex was using Rooney exactly the same way towards the end of last season.

Chris Smalling is a good young defender, but he is absolutely terrible on the ball. No composure at all. Put him under a little bit of pressure and he just clears it, loses possession or hoofs it up the pitch. I lost count of the amount of time we conceded possession because of him, not just the last game but throughout the season. Squad player who needs to work on his basics.

Evra, what a travesty. Doesn't even jump for a defensive header in the box. I feel ashamed that he gets to wear the captain's armband. In his good days he was a top player for us, but that Evra is long gone and we are left with this.

Then there is Ashley Young. Who got the idea of signing this guy I don't know but then again the same genius policy was responsible for signing Bebe. Valencia has a great workrate but his crossing has been poor for a while now.

Where do I start about Welbeck? He has pace and power, but his first touch and composure are embarrassing for someone who is supposed to be a striker. Tom 'side pass' Cleverley, never takes on any responsibility on the pitch or takes players on, just hides and passes it to the next available man. He has no pace or strength. Both need to be squad players at best.

And obviously the center backs who are either unfit or suspended. How are we supposed to have a stable defense if somebody crumbles to an injury every next game or worse, gets himself suspended?

Apart from Januzaj no winger has done much, and that has been the story for the last 2-3 years. NONE of the above is what Moyes has brought with him. Its been there for a while, the change of manager has only amplified it, magnified the glaring deficiencies.

I have named FIRST TEAM players above, those who start every week. Not good enough for Manchester United, especially during a season when the manager who has been here 27 years is changed. Look at the squads City, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Bayern had when they changed manager last summer. All of them were able to add quality to their squads, one way or another in the summer.

So what has really changed from Sir Alex to Moyes? Our success last season was built on RVP, Carrick, Rafael, De Gea playing to their full potential and being fit and available throughout the season, we know that. The rest made up the numbers, but Sir Alex, knowing these players for a number of years was able to get the best out of them. More importantly, he was the glue that held it together. The team worked for him, believed in him.

I don't think ANY manager coming in would have had THAT level of understanding with these players and got them performing to the level they were at last season, no chance imo. We would have been higher up with a more high profile name soothing some nerves in the squad, in 4th perhaps, but challenging the top 3? Only Sir Alex was capable of that with this squad.

A large part of this squad know they are gonners in the summer. That won't change even if we sack Moyes right now.

This is not to say that I am completely in favor of Moyes. Guardiola or Klopp would have been my first choices. Some of his decisions have left me puzzled. I don't blame him for what he says the media, because without the results, whatever he says to them is going to be a wrong comment anyway.

We have a major rebuilding job in the summer. Thankfully Liverpool just managed a point. We need to play better, get everyone fit and need a bit of luck going for us in a couple of games, to get out of this rut.

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Dont agree with most of that but let's leave it at that.
I'm sure moyes will become master tactician one day!

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@Nomidfield

What do you not agree with? I would really like to know. Do Cleverley, Welbeck, Valencia, Evra, Smalling, Young do enough to play regularly for United? I'm sorry I don't think so.

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REDFAITH, don't hold your breath.

Nomidfield's MO, is to come on here and come out with a few negative soundbites, that he thinks his bosses, Red Man and Danny, want to hear (sometimes after 20 minutes of a game when we're losing, before going silent when we come back and win - that happened quite a lot last season)

Once you actually pull him up on anything or try to engage in any sort of debate with him, he goes away and is never heard on that thread again.

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03 Feb 2014 19:19:15
I have been reading the comments ref David Moyes at United and not all the blame should be placed on him for the current state of affairs. Fergie is partly to blame. Last season united over achieved mainly due to team or management circumstances at Arsenal, Chelsea and City.

Fergie should have had a replacement in place for Paul Scholes (best player by far over the years) over 18 months ago. Ferdinand should have been replaced and kept as squad player last season. That is half the spine of the team. Smalling is not a fullback and should be in CB position. There is no point continuing playing uplayers who are likely to be released at end of the season, where is the incentive. If Jones and Smalling seen as CB then this season should be used to get them to work as a pairing. There are too many playing with a couldn't care less attitude and may find the likes of RVP and Rooney no longer want to be there. New skipper needed for rest of the season, suggest jones whenever fit

Moyes made a mistake of not keeping Fergies back room staff, in particular Mike Phelan. At least at matches he got off his backside and to the touch line which Steve round never seems to do. I had the same opinion when he was at Everton. What his qualities are I've no idea. I would like Moyes to succeed, prefer to see a British manager than foreign.

I post this as an Everton Supporter (but before any insults come my way am not a scouser) and how their players now play with smile on their faces, obviously improved team spirit. Like to think speak with common sense.

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Hi no name,
An Evertonian and not a scouser, you must be a glory hunter! Oh, no it's Everton!

Unfair but only banter and if you're my vintage you will remember Everton and Glory going together.

Good post with lots of valid points, one thing Moyse gets gets slated for is rigid 4 4 2 with wingers. Don't think he set up Everton that way, its the players we have & continuing SAFs system, what do you think?

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Been an Everton follower for 50 yrs but have respect for Man united over the years especially from the Busby era. Supporters need to be patient with new manager, many new players needed and new system. If the manager plays a system to suit their strength then okay but with so many changes won't be done overnight. The main problem will come next season on which players Moyes has been able to attract if they don't qualify for champion league. Prefer the northern clubs at the top irrespective of their location. If I remember, the first couple of seasons at Everton were not easy but the chairman stood by him. Look at the mess Liverpool made of it over past few years.

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I think that too, Jockstrap. I can't recall him playing with out and out wingers at Everton.

I think it's a case that he has to work with what he has, and rather than copy Fergie's penchant for fitting square pegs in round holes, he'd rather play the players in their natural positions, as much as he can, even if it means playing a tactic that he doesn't particularly like.

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Knoall, would you have moyes back at Everton?
Sk, moyes plays Smalling at Rb, jones in midfield, kagawa as left winger, welbeck in midfield (against Stoke). So not sure what you're saying?
And what's wrong with copying fergie's blueprint? It worked ok as far as I can see.

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I said 'as much as he can', if you read the whole post NM, rather than just what you think is in it.

Obviously injuries have made it impossible sometimes.

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Finished that too early - I'm nearly sure you spent most of last season moaning about Fergie doing just that.

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03 Feb 2014 19:06:19
'Brendan, Why not Powell, Cleverley, Keanes & Welbeck together? We do not need to sell players for the fun of it, there are enough leaving this summer. The squad isn't an issue, we need to improve the first XI. By improving the first XI we will be making the squad better. Players like Carrick, Cleverley, Valencia etc will be squad players.
Sydney!'

But Syd, why have squad players who bring absolutely nothing to the squad what so ever? We are paying probably £150k per week ish for Welbeck and Cleverley to be in the squad between them, and apart from making up the numbers they do nothing else. Even Young has started to add something, even if it is minuscule. We need 5 top quality signings and then I would make up the squad with the younger guys as they will add as much as the players mentioned plus Anderson, Young, Nani etc but on less wages. It just doesn't make sense, financially or in the development of our younger guys, who could benefit from being around the first team more, but can't as the deadwood are taking up valuable space and repaying us with nothing.

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Unfortunately, Manchester United like to keep a nucleus of English players. Cleverly and Welbeck make good squad players but nothing more than that, Powell could be a top player. And as you say, even Young has proven himself a bit, perhaps even enough to keep him as a squad player (at least he has a little bit more to his game than Toni). I agree with Syd on this, we have the squad players but need the world class players.

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Danny Welbeck, a local lad, came through the full youth set up, 9 goals in 18 games this season. He's 23 and will get better as he gets more football intelligence.

Seriously Brenden, don't sound like much of a "supporter". He's the ideal player to sit behind Rooney and RVP in the queue for a starting place. Him and Hernandez are vying for the 3rd spot, and current Danny's winning.

The fresh Prince of Bellvue =:)

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It makes perfect sense, hence the reason they are there. Hence the reason Moyes picks them to play. We will lose EIGHT senior players in the summer, why would we sell two squad players? That makes zero sense.

Also do you seriously think Cleverley and Welbeck are on £75k a week each? You think the club moved them from £16k a week straight up to £75k?

They are good homegrown squad players on low incomes (for a footballer). It makes no sense selling them when Nani, Evra, Vidic, Andow, Giggs, Ferdinand, Hernandez & Kagawa are all leaving.

All we need to do is sign 4-5 top quality players and players like Carrick, Valencia, Cleverley and Welbeck will be just decent squad players. Anyway I am off to bed as I have to be up at 4am. Later Bren.

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Cleverley or danny wouldn't get into any of the top english or european teams they are average at best just because players are english or local doesn't mean we have to be sentimental if a player isn't good enough it doesn't matter where there from or if they came through the acedamy you win nothing with sentiment

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Syd

Welbeck is on 70k a week mate. We do not have the third highest payroll in the league and one of the highest in europe because these guys are on 30k mate. There is a bunch of these guys who must think christmas comes every week for what they get paid and what we get back in return.

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Shahram, you read too many newspapers my friend. Welbeck is most certainly not on £70k a week. Both Cleverley and Welbeck will be on between £30k-£50k a week. MU or more importantly the Glazers will not go from £16k a week straight up to £70k a week. It just doesn't happen.

I said for a very long time Nani was not on £80k/£90k a week, that he was on around £40k a week and it has become apparent this month that he is NOW on £80k a week after his new deal. MU have a wage structure in place and they do not go from £16k a week to £70k a week.

Too many people reading nonsense newspaper stories.

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John, neither would the likes of Mikel, Kolarov, Demichelis, Rosicky, Rose, Lescott etc. They are squad players, all clubs need squad players.

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03 Feb 2014 18:32:14
I'm sorry, but the reaction to the result on the weekend is way over the top. Charlie Adam scored the luckiest and then one of the best goals of the season - an unstoppable shot. Stoke have always been tricky to beat and the games are always tight. We had RVP back and scoring, he linked up well with Mata who made the pass for his goal and we were generally very unlucky. It happens to every team. Whilst this has not been a good season, we have been very unfortunate.

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The performances so far are way more worrying than merely "unfortunate"!, there's a saying that you make your own luck, maybe that saying speaks more volumes than just being unfortunate. Some results have been unlucky, yes, but performances and general play and tactics go a lot deeper than unlucky.

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Fresh even if we attribute Stoke's goals down to luck or brilliance, our inability to score is what's the reason for the fans reaction.

Inspite of going we never looked kike scoring.

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Come on Fresh, I realise we have a number of drama queens I here but to say we have been unlucky is stretching it. Chelsea away, Swansea and Sunderland in the cups, Spurs, Newcastle, Everton, West Brom, all at home. I'll give you City and Liverpool away but for the vast majority of this year, we have been nothing but average and that's being kind. I'm not going to bitch and moan but I'm not in denial either. We need to support our team but be in no doubt we are currently in a mess.

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Fresh

Are you living in denial? We were equally lucky to have won at Hull and Norwich. Luck tends to balance itself out over a season

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It's just soul destroying coming on here just now ain't it!

We need Zee back to do his cheer leading act!

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Fresh

It is not a reaction to the weekends game but frustration at the continuing paucity of his tactics and team selection. If the game was a one off then call it unlucky but it is a result of our negativity, back four too deep, old fashioned tactics plus the situation that the players can't see the medals on his chest that confirms he knows what it really takes to succeed, show us your medals is the old saying.

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You are right Fresh! we were very unlucky. However, the fan's patience is waning with every result like this.
Every decision Moyes makes is now being negatively scrutinised. The reason for this is that he appears to not offer anything or have the ability to positively change the outcome of a game.

With hindsight a period of consolidation after SAF was the right thing to do. Moyes now needs to start putting his stamp on the team. He needs to stop tinkering with the line up to 'have a look at a few things' and he needs to start pressing teams and attacking them instead of 'getting to the line and crossing it'.
Whether or not Moyes is the right man long term, i'm still in the undecided category. I do however think he could do better here if he started being is own man instead of working to orders which is what it looks like at the minute.

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AJH - I'd be careful about using the term, 'drama queens'. Some of our more sensitive posters find terms like that antagonistic.

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It will be interesting to see the fence sitters opinions if we get beat by fulham on sunday:)

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Dodgy, Zee's one of those guys that I worry does take the whole thing a bit too seriously.

He's brilliant, and I love his positivity, but he swings from incredible highs to incredible lows. I always feel he's a small step away from becoming a newspaper headline.

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John, you never answered - wife or season ticket?

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03 Feb 2014 18:24:25
There's nothing to be gained by changing the manager at the moment, but maybe it's time Giggs stopped playing and was next to Moyes on the bench. I'm afraid that Steve Round and Phil Neville look like rabbits caught in the headlights and I'm sure Giggsys input would help. Gary Neville's defensive knowledge and never say die attitude would surely help our young defenders, if he could be talked into it . Round and Phil Neville could maybe used in the youth set up etc as Moyes did a great job at everton in that area?

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You must be mad to think Moyes will demote either Phil Neville or Steve round to manage the youth team.

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03 Feb 2014 17:54:03
This is going to be a rather long, statistical post, comparing ourselves with other premier league teams, especially the big ones. I hope we'd get a clearer look of our tactical deficiencies.

Ill start off with defense. In the top 8, we're the team that concedes the joint most shots per game ( with only Everton conceding 11, 9 ). City : 10, 1 and Chelsea 9.8.

Only 5 teams complete more tackles than us ( 17, 9 ), and none of them are in the top teams. Chelsea, City and Arsenal both stand at 20, Liverpool at 21, 5.

We're the second best when it comes to interceptions, 0, 1 behind Crystal palace.

All teams above us in the the league, and Newcastle have more shots per game. City stands at 18, and we're on a mediocre 13, 5. Same goes for dribbles completed per game.

We have the 4th most goals scored in open play, but all the top teams, excluding Arsenal, have many more goals from set pieces. And we have 0 counter attack goals, which for a team that plays with fast, direct wingers, is unacceptable.

Now comes the horror show, passing. We stand top on crosses attempted per game, with 27. No team comes even close, especially top teams. In terms of through balls, we're decent but only Chelsea ranks lower than us. We also have the highest percentage of long balls of all the top teams, with 15%.
& teams complete more short passes per game than us, and all of them except Swansea are above us in the league.

Our discipline records is 4th worst in the league, with only relegation battlers make more fouls than us.

As for the attack sides, we stand dead last in attacks from the middle of the pitch, with Stoke, West Ham and Sunderland our only competitors ( still 2% more than us ). 42 % of our attacks come from the right, and since Valencia is the one who stays there, it's fair to say we're not overly productive.

The only good stat is the action zones. Only City spend less time in their defensive third ( 23 % to our 25 ) with Tottenham and Chelsea also on 25, but Tottenham, Chelsea, City and Everton spend more time in the attacking third. We're tied with Arsenal on 29.

All in all, our tactics seem pretty clear. We try to intercept, and we don't have enough players who tackle, and when they do, we concede a lot of fouls.

We don't have any direct dribblers, and we don't shoot nearly enough, while we concede plenty of shots, all of which reflect the lack of time the ball is in the middle of the attacking theirs, you can't cross shoot when you're on the wing.

We also don't attack through the middle, and concentrate too much on the right, which is why it's pretty easy for teams to defend against us. This is down to Moyes' tactics of run and cross, and since we play with inverted wingers on the left, we attack more from the right ( to be able to cross more! ).

Now let's concentrate more on ourselves. Juan Mata averages the most tackles per game, with 3. Phil Jones and Evra are on 2, 5 which really is unacceptable.

Rooney concedes more fouls than tackles, and so does Januzaj. Hope that's it for how much Rooney helps out defensively. 0, 8 tackles per game is not much is it?

Now for Key passes. Rooney creates 2, 2 chances per game, Mata stands superior at 3, 5. I realize Mata has not been here long enough to be judged on statistics, To put it into context, Silva creates 3, 9 and Suarez 2, 5. That's hopefully it for "Rooney is a brilliant creator and should keep the number 10 position ". Rooney is a striker, and should be played as such. Welbeck creates 0.6, Januzaj 1.1, Kagawa 0.9 and Nani 1, 4. Those are mostly because you can't be as accurate with crossing as you are with passing, therefore the strikers will get less chances to shoot.

And the right winger of manchester United creating one chance per goal is unacceptable, especially with over half the play coming from his side. Welbeck creates 0.6., that's less than Carrick. NAni is our most creative option down the right, with januzaj second.

Now for dribbles per game, that's going to be fun. nani dribbles the most, with 2, 8 and Januzaj completes 1, 8 dribbles per game. Rooney stands third at 1, 4 and after that it's just embarrassing.

Rooney gets dispossessed 2, 2 times a game, and fouled 1, 4. Only Kagawa and januzaj lose the ball more often, but Januzaj gets fouled more than twice as much as Rooney so is more likely to be dispossessed.

Now passing, that's going to be fun. Carrick, whose real worth is his passing, completes 68 passes per game while Ramsey and Toure both stand over 70. Cleverley is second with 55 ( Cleverley, another player who's passing is his best quality ). Fellaini averaged 77 passes per game in his last 3 Everton matches, and only has 48 now. Not an encouraging stat now is it? Rooney completes 45 passes per game, with an accuracy of 79 %. Hopefully, that will be it for " Rooney is a brilliant passer ". He doesn't create as much a Mata, averages less passes, less key passes, is dispossessed more often. Only rafael, Young, RVP and Nani have worse passing accuracy.

He also has the most yellow cards with 8 (Valencia stands second with 5 ) .

I'm not saying Rooney is a bad player, because he proved himself this season to be our most important asset, but making him creator in chief is not the solution to a creative-less midfield.

From all those stats, it is clear that we need a change in tactics. I would play with something close to a winger-less formation. A variation of the diamond formation, meets PSG's 4-2-2-2 of last season.

We can play with Carrick and fellaini/ fletcher in 4 of the midfield slots, stick one of Cleverley/ Kagawa / Januzaj in a role similar to that of Di Maria in Madrid( all of them provide decent options, with Cleverley giving us more grit when needed, Kagawa more vision and Januzaj more creativity ) Mata would be at the top of the tree, the creator in chief for Rooney and Van Persie, who get to play the " 9 and a half " role.

A variation of this is the 4-2-2-2 wingerless formation. With carrick and Fletcher deep in midfield, Mata kagawa/ Januzaj making it a midfield 4, one playing a bit to the right and the other a bit to the left. And with Carrick and Fletcher, hopefully along with an advanced defensive line of Jones and Evans, would allow Rafael and Evra to attack responsibly.

Januzaj, kagawa and Mata would have a bit more defensive role to play, but this formation is hugely based on possession and suffocating the opposing teams, and they have the technical attributes not to maintain possession. When more grit is needed, Cleverley, and in the future Powell, would replace one of mata, Januzaj and kagawa, depending on the opposition. We keep Valencia and get rid of Nani and Young and in the future, with Zaha coming back, we can still play with wingers depending on the game.

I don't see this formation in the long term future of the club, with both Rooney and Van Persie unlikely to warrant a starting spot, which is why we wouldn't need to tinker with the formation and play with 2 strikers, we could move to a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1. But for now, the 4-2-2-2 seems like the formation that would allow us to change our tactics and get the best out of a very, very capable front line. Ed004, I'd like to see your optimal formation for the time being, without any squad additions.

Opinions welcome.

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{Ed004's Note - I think we have to play a 4-2-3-1 formation. I would play a back line of Rafael, Smalling with any other cb expect rio and Evra. Play a high line and press further up the pitch. Have a midfield of Fletcher and Fellaini/Carrick to offer a lot of protection and preferably a front 3 of Mata, Rooney and Kagawa support RVP. In the summer I think Rooney is off. If that's the case we need to add speed into our attack and technically good players. Ideally Reus and Di Maria that would mean for 3 positions behind RVP we have Di Maria, Mata, Reus covered by Januzaj, Kagawa and Valencia that gives us so many options}

Very good post,

I agree that we have to start moving toward a system in which we don't play with out-and-out wingers, and something like City's formation when Silva and Nasri play together could be a solution. However, for that formation to work you need strong box to box runners in the middle. My worry would be that Fellaini, Carrick and Fletcher all sit a bit too deep, and this has the knock on effect on pushing the central defence deep too.

I would like to see us try a 4-2-3-1 with Kagawa, Mata and Januzaj playing behind RVP. Again the problem with playing Rooney as the sole striker is that he has a tendency to run back looking for the ball instead of trying to run behind the defence.

The key thing is, like you say, we need to stop focusing everything on attacking down the wing. Interestingly, in the last game with Mata on the right, most of our attacks came from the left wing. In other words, the team just doesn't seem capable of doing anything other than try to get it to down the wing and into the box.

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Great post Mick. I think some of it comes down to risk v reward. Playing with Januzaj and Mata might seem less assured defensively, but their intelligence should outweigh that risk. If those two can both be allowed to float into any spaces they want offensively, they could break down defenses, and at least, give us more possession, and less defending.

Moyes needs to set the team up to press high defensively, or sit back with numbers and counter with speed. It can't be in between. And the Manchester United way would be to press and be proactive, and it would get the fans behind the team as well.

You are absolutely right about Rooney. He is not a #10.

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Another idea is a 4-4-2 with a diamond midfield. Rooney and RVP up top. Back four of Evra, Evans, Smalling, and Rafael. Let Carrick sit in front of the back four. Fletcher and Jones as the shuttlers, left and right. Then Mata at the top of the diamond, with a free role going forward, behind the strikers. Januzaj could be first option in any of the front three positions. And sometimes play Fellaini on the side of the diamond to allow Jones to play CB.

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@Ed004

I wouldn't play Smalling. He is terrible on the ball, it affects the whole complexion of our play. It affects the midfield. He keeps hoofing it up the pitch, loses possession or chooses the wrong pass.

From the current lot, Vidic and Evans/Jones or Evans and Jones should be the center back partnership.

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{Ed004's Note - I think composure will come with playing more. He has been our best defender the past month I feel more confident with him in the team defending set pieces. He has the speed as well to allow us to play a highline}

I don't see Wayne going anywhere. I think Kagawa, Nani and one of Young or Valencia will leave in the summer. Rooney, RVP & Mata are the first names on the team sheet for the front 4 births, there is one spot available as we can't put too much pressure on Januzaj. We need one if not two central midfielders, a world class centre back and top class left back. And IF Rafael's form doesn't improve then a new right back.

My picks would be Mangala, Filipe, Vidal and Reus. However I think it will be more like Mangala, Filipe, Kroos and perhaps someone like Griezmann.

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We will not pay 35mill for mangala

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Agreed mick and an excellent post. And at last people are coming to realize that average wingers are a luxury. We can play one winger at most, and he has to be world class and be flexible enough to change positions and come inside quite often.
The days of an out and out wingers are gone.
Problem? Moyes doesn't think so!!
Very good post.

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NM, like I said above, he can only play the formation available to him with the players he has. It's not a case of him wanting to, unless you know something the rest of us don't.

I spoke with Red Man about this before, and I think as a big admirer of German football, where 442 is not common, that once Moyes gets the players he wants, to play the system he wants, we won't be seeing 442.

ps. Bayern might argue with you about the days of out and out wingers being gone.

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03 Feb 2014 18:10:13
Ive been reading the posts for the last few days and pondering over what players are good enough and which aren't, and whether or not its Moyes who is not up to the job. As I thought about everything, and thinking back over the last couple of seasons I realised that for the last 3 years myself and some fellow fans have discussed and criticized 2 main points about matches. Firstly the speed and intensity of our play. Everything is very pedestrian with not enough one touch passing. Secondly we do not press the opposition when they have the ball, instead we drop back to our own 18yard line and try to defend from there.
My conclusion for what its worth is that this cannot be blamed on Moyes as its a bad habit we have been in for to long. Secondly although we definitely need new blood, I believe a lot of the current squad would look better if we played a higher tempo and pressed the opposition. Remember when pundits used to comment about how hard United players work when they don't have the ball, that can't be said now. Moyes Everton side worked hard and pressed, he has to make this team do it and earn the wins.

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Good pints. Moyes may or may not be the right man. Us he was certainly handed the sh1tty end of the stick. An ageing 1 paced team with recent recruits not up to the required standard

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03 Feb 2014 18:05:52
StevieK it was partly sarcastic lampooning eejits on the internet. But on a serious note I do think we will have a problem with them come summer and I see one of them going.

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I wouldn't disagree, MrE. Want to take bets on which one?

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No it wasnt

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03 Feb 2014 16:52:02
Champions League semifinalists, last five years, since our victory in 2008:
2009 - Barcelona, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal
2010 - Inter, Bayern, Barcelona, Lyon
2011 - Barcelona, Man Utd, Bayern, Schalke
2012 - Chelsea, Bayern, Real Madrid, Barcelona
2013 - Bayern, Dortmund, Real Madrid, Barcelona

We could say:
1. Bayern Munich
2. Barcelona
3. Real Madrid
4. Manchester United or Chelsea
We are still right there in recent history.

Man City and PSG will now have such expectations, anything less would be falling short for them. Perhaps Arsenal and Athletico Madrid as well. And this round has drawn Man City v Barca, and Bayern v Arsenal.

So if we can get past Olympiakos, and we should, then we will have at least made it to the 1/4 finals of the CL, and we are only 7 pts off Liverpool, and we face them at Old Trafford in March.

As bad as it has been, there is still hope. On our current form, no. But let's keep believing, guys. We have the talent for a turnaround.

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If we get past Olympiakos - and with a decent quarter-final draw - we could well end up in the semi's this year.

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Steady on mate, this optimism could be catching ;-0

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03 Feb 2014 18:20:34
History also tells us over the last 5-6 years if u beat barca you win the champions league

Corby12

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Why should we get past olympiacos when we can't beat stoke, sunderland, west brom?

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John, no offence to the standard of the Greek league. I'm sure it's top quality. But I'd fancy our chances against Olympiakos over most Premiership teams.

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03 Feb 2014 16:09:50
Is Nick Powell's loan at Wigan finished? If so, do you think he should be put in our midfield alongside fletcher or fellani to see what he can do?

Must be worth a look, he's done well at Wigan, I know the Premier League is a step up but he can't be worse than clevereley!

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Can't wait to see Powell in a United shirt next season, although where will he play? It seems his best position is the number ten role, where we already have Rooney, Welbeck, Mata and Kagawa
Banter please.

By the way, this a great site and I love the inputs of the editors. Keep up the great work.

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{Ed007's Note - Thanks.}

Can he play as a box to box midfielder? I thought he was more a no 10 and could even play up front.

I'm all for giving him a go but no point in risking his development by playing him out of position.

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He injured his hamstring and is back with us I believe.

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Brymnez75
Let him have a good experience mate! He looks a gem of a player and should not be rushed.

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He's played most of the season as a striker, almost as a false 9 really. I don't actually know if he's played a whole game as a centre mid. Maybe as he gets older, like Scholes he'll move back and be smart enough to dictate the play and control the tempo.

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03 Feb 2014 16:07:47
"Stevie, if you know your limitations you wouldn't keep trying to antagonise people that you lack the capacity to argue with"
Not too big headed hey Danny!
I tend to agree with Stevie, I see it dannypughunited and just skip past that post.

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03 Feb 2014 15:25:05
Last 2 posts dod not make the site, can I get a reason why?

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{Ed007's Note - No. Have you checked the site?}

03 Feb 2014 15:23:43
I am beyond embarrassed that a so called fan of the club has started a petition for the sale of Tom Cleverley, and around 2,000 others have signed it.

Cleverley may not be good enough to play for the club, but this is embarrassing for the boy and his family. Absolutely no need for it. He is still a United player.

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{Ed007's Note - I've been one of Cleverley's biggest critics on here but there's no need for stuff like this.}

It's stupid, it isn't his fault we haven't got any better options.

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Pathetic, it is becoming more and more obvious that he isn't good enough, but he isn't the only one, and to do that is a disgrace. I hope whoever it is gets the sh*t off people that they deserve. Any braindead f*ckwit who has signed it is no real supporter of Manchester United.

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Is it just me or can everyone see the funny side to StevenC's post?

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The same happened to Gibson. He was hounded out of the club by cretins.

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Welbeck is just as poor, Young, Buttner, Nani and previously Anderson have contributed much less, but none of them get the stick Cleverley does.

Some seem to think that the only reason Cleverley gets a free ride in the first team is because he's an academy graduate, and they want to make an example out of him.
And that is just not true. Cleverley gets a free ride because he's just as poor as our other midfielders.

If we didn't have Cleverley this season, and with Jones, Fellaini, Carrick and Fletcher on the sidelines more often than not, who could we have played? Ekangamene?

It's not like he is blocking the progress of other players or stopping us from buying someone. He is a squad player who has been given a starting role because of a lack of options. He should never have been given such a prominent role, and it's definitely not his fault.

I for one, would be pretty happy with Cleverley finishing his career here, and he'll be a valuable squad player.

What worries me more is how often Welbeck plays ahead of much, much more talented players. Nani for one, despite being inconsistent as fu**, has more talent in his toe than Welbeck does. Same goes for Januzaj and Chicharito.

But that comes back to Moyes, and Fergie. Chicharito scores more goals, and even with a bad first touch, is always likely to score a goal given a couple of chances. Welbeck is more likely to trip over his own feet and headbutt the floor.

The difference is, we have young players who will eventually replace Welbeck in Henriquez, Keane, Lingard and Wilson. We have no one capable of filling in for Cleverley, except maybe Petrucci, whose loan spell was a disaster and he could neither find form or fitness.

All in all, I'd like both to either stay or be sent out on loan ( despite their advanced age/development ) and come back improved. Unfortunately with in our current predicament, we are unlikely to do either.

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Its stupid and that's being 2 nice to the people that signed it!

You may not rate the lad but its stuff like this that is embarrassing for the real fans

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I bet some on here signed it :)

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I've not signed it yet can someone point me to it? Only joking, there is no excuse for this. Players try their best and give their all, for their own fans to do this is treacherous

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@ Ed007 - I have been critical as well, most have, and rightly so. Cleverley is not good enough there is nothing wrong with stating that. But the petition thing is just wrong and embarrassing for everyone involved.

@ unitedred71 - I don't know what you are on about, but my post is not supposed to have any "funny side" to it.

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{Ed007's Note - Surely no self respecting fan would sign something like that? If anyone on here has then shame on you, I hope you're next $hite's a hedgehog!}

I will sign it if we had one for Welbeck :)

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Bond, there's a vicious rumour going round that Danny Pughunited signed it.

I'm just saying.

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{Ed007's Note - Danny's never only wrote two words in his life!}

Bond, I'm not touching that reply with a bargepole.

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03 Feb 2014 15:02:38
Why are people saying "sell cleverly, Wellbeck etc. "
We will not sell our English squad players (bar maybe young) who will we replace them with without paying over the odds?

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Young can be replaced with Lingard, Welbeck with a door stop, or if not Keane can have his place.

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So you are saying so long as they are English they will never be sold. so any excuse for a footballer has a career long contract waiting for them at OT so long as he is English. unbelievable how thick some people are.

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Brendan81

"Welbeck with a door stop"

Brilliant, sitting at the airport waiting to board and just made me laugh so hard.
He is so poor and I am willing to bet he will not be her in 24 months if this is as good as it gets.Fro 80 k a week there area better players out there. He is no strikers and not sure besides being big what are his strengths.

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No I'm saying we won't get that much for them, we never get much for anyone and always undersell. Then we'd have to replace them somehow, using up our budget to buy more squad players who may or may not be better than them, but dam sure will cost a lot more.
I think people are forgetting we can't have a squad of forgeign players.

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'Fro 80 k a week' that just describes Welbeck perfectly, even if it was a input error :-)

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1993 our younger guys could give as much as Welbeck, Cleverley etc, so why not let them have a go where the above have failed?

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Also 1993, do we really undersell? Or is it that we over inflate the prices we think we should get because they are players for Manchester United? Let me just ask, if Welbeck, Cleverley, Young, Anderson, Nani and Buttner were at say Aston Villa, would you want United to buy them? If so, what would you, honestly, be willing to pay? I can tell you I wouldn't want any of them on the performances they have put in for us and non would be anywhere near the £10m and over bracket for price. They would all be £8m and under going off performance.

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03 Feb 2014 15:02:32
Ryan Tunnicliffe and Larnell Cole have been sold to Fulham. not loaned but permanently sold.


I for one am surprised by this.

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I am not surprised. Shame you couldn't combined the two players as they would be one complete player. Cole lacked the physicality and Tunnicliffe lacked composure and control.

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They were never going to make it. Tunnicliffe had an awful passing and Larnell was light weight and no where near united quality! Hope this means Andreas Periera gets his chance at U21 level now that Cole is gone.

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Never rated Tunnicliffe I thought he was a better version of Phil Stamp (that horrible player from Middlesborough in the 90s)

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Syd
What do you think of so many players leaving on loan? Clear out at academy level also?

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Ed001, do you have any idea if we have a buy back option? I wouldn't be surprised if we did, both were rated pretty highly by the previous coaching staff, especially Cole who was highly regarded by Scholes.

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{Ed001's Note - not actually sure, I will ask for you.}

Ive watched both regulary at u18 and u21 over the last few years and didn't think either would make it at utd, half decent but not quality

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03 Feb 2014 14:41:28
We started the pre season playing high tempo football Zaha, Januzaj and lingard were perhaps our best players. We beat Wigan in the charity shield and Moyes opted for the old guard. He played Ferdinand for 5 straight games despite SAF resting him every other game. Then Ferdinand got injured and subsequently has become a bit part player and increasingly looks past it.

I think Moyes tactics have been questionable his team selection has been hampered by injuries. His substitutions have lost us games, I.e Valencia moving to RB we lost three games doing this.

He is negative in his overall approach. When he joined he said he needed Giggs help for when we played in Europe, something which shouldn't have been said publicly. Next he stated that everyone tells me Kagawa is a good player. Then Ferdinand admits Moyes leaves his team selection to the last minute which doesn't help the players.

Moyes needs to listen to the players. The team lacks confidence and needs consistency. Playing the players in their correct position. If necessary give a reserve player a chance rather than play a player out of position.

Ultimately Moyes isn't doing a good enough job. We all knew that we would lose games but the fact that we've played like an un ambitious, unsure team is all down to Moyes. Confidence is key to success. Yes we should have bought players in the summer as Jan is always harder to buy. Play Fletcher in midfield with Fellaini with a front three of Januzaj Mata and Rooney with RVP up top. Allow the three attacking players to play free flowing football interchanging football. Kagawa Januzaj and Mata would play some beautiful football. Let Fellaini/ Fletcher sit back whilst the other provides support and let the defence play a higher line. We are a better team than our current position. Let's play attacking football and go for fourth place and really show that we mean business. Moyes needs to build momentum as how he currently has the team playing we will loose another 3-5 games this season. This isn't being pessimistic it's being realistic.

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Good post Mad Hatter

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Spot on hatter. I completely agree with your suggestions for the team.

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03 Feb 2014 13:59:45
Three of our defenders know that this is their last season with united.
Rio, Vidic and Evra so why they should work extra hard when they know the manager is clueless.

Jones and Evans are injury prone. Smalling doesn't know whether he will play the next game or not. Rafael has lost his confidence and his quality is also deteriorating. On top of it the manager is giving his team any confidence at least on pitch this is what we can see.

Our manager tatics are defensive. I said it yesterday that best manager performs well under pressure. Moyes instead of accepting the defeat and accepting that his tactics were not right gave excuses.

Moyes, you are the captain of the ship and you are responsible. Behave like a leader and accept the defeat with grace and say that I have used wrong tactics and we will improve in the next game. And improvement must be shown on the pitch. Instead he is saying that we were unlucky, we should have won, referees gave decisions against us and so on.

Can you guys remember when did we score 4 or more goals in PL.Well I can remember that it was our first match (I am not too sure on it) of this season.

So we are not scoring and we are not defending and it makes us Hodge Podge. There as so many coaches and what are they doing? Giggs and Philip what are they doing? I have to blame Vidic/Evra as a captain as well. Why they are not leading the team? Maybe because they are leaving so appoint another captain.

Do something different Moyes. Don't be afraid of losing the game as we are loosing anyway. Try differently, tell the players to play freely.Why not ask SAF to come and give them a lecture/ inspiring speech?

The only good thing happened yesterday was LFC didn't win so we are 7 points behind. There are 14 games left at least we have to win 11 of these to get top4. We have to win against LFC, Everton and Arsenal. With city if we get one point then it is acceptable.

I am hoping whatever has happened till now was worst and this new day will bring good things and hope someone take responsibility and lead us from front.

Our team and club need us so we will support our club even though with tears in eyes.

Hope City wins today or best draw. We need two teams to drop points out of top 4. My bet is on LFC and Chelsea. Though a lot depend on Ars vs LFC game.

Good luck and I know we will win against Fulhum. But I want our team to score 4 or 5 so they will have some confidence. Most of our matches that we won were not comprehensive.

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King can't see Chelsea dropping out of top 4 as long as Mourinho is incharge.

Our only hope is us beating Liverpool at OT and hoping the games Liv, Spurs, Everton play among themselves end in draws and the big teams beat them.

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I believe the bottom half of the table at hem will shock many of the top team from here till the end of the season.

The league is very competitive and no one is safe when they play on the road. We need some ugly wins no matter how on the road an deed to win all our remaining home games, including City.

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I can see City winning 3.1 tonight, perhaps even 4.1 or 5.1 with Aguero. I suspect Jose will try and play some 19th century football, but City are too good for Chelsea.

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Totally agreed Sydney GCU.

I believe the bottom half teams are very close so they all will work hard to avoid relegation. Westham showed against Chelsea. But then we are under threat as well.

Mumbai boy, If City wins today then Chelsea and LFC are our closest teams to catch. Arsenal performance depends how they will perform against Bayern. If they beat bayern and mind you they can (in one leg) then they can lift themselves.

I just feel the Chelsea will face this irony of handing us Mata most probably in this season. May be we get top 4 at the expense of Chelsea.

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03 Feb 2014 13:55:30
Banter if at all possible eds, thanks.

Syd has got me thinking about who we could let go this summer and here are my opinions.

Rio and Giggs will retire.
Vidic and Evra are past their best and both could go as long as we get a good LB and an experienced CB.
Buttner, Anderson, Nani, Young, Welbeck, Hernandez, Cleverley, Bebe and Macheda are all not good enough.
Kagawa as I don't think Moyes see him as a United player next season, especially with Mata here now.
Lindegard as we have enough cover.

Now to replace these I think we would need a quality, experienced CB, a quality LB, at least one quality CM but 2 would be ideal, a wide attacking player who can play left or right and a striker. Then we could add some youngsters and give them some real experience instead of playing deadwood who do nothing anyway.

We would then have great cover, I think, as follows -
GK DeGea, Amos, Johnstone
RB Rafael, Varela, Smalling
LB New signing, Blackett
CB New signing, Jones, Evans, Smalling, Keane
CM 1 or 2 new signings, Fellaini, Carrick, Fletcher
LW New signing, Januzaj, Lingard
RW New signing, Valencia, Zaha
Number 10 Mata, Rooney, Powell
CF New signing, Van Persie, Rooney, Henriquez, Keane

I'd be happy with that starting next season. Many won't be i'm sure :-)

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Yeah pretty much agree, though I think we will keep Young as a squad player. The priorities this summer must be LB at least 1 CM 1CB and a forward who can score and go past players. If we can cover those 4 anything else can wait.

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Bren how can we be sure that Giggs will retire?

We have been saying that for the past 3-4 seasons.

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Many people have noticed how our backs play very deep, and I wonder if Moyes can coach that out of them. If not, he may have to consider deeper changes than those you are recommending, although, with all the other needs, this probably won't be the number one priority.

Players mature at different ages, but if you haven't blossomed by 23, the chances are you will never be more than a squad player on a top team. So, yes, we do not need Cleverley or Welbeck. Between now and tyhe end of the season. I would play Buttner more often just to see if he has the potential to be in contention for the LB spot after Evra has gone. With CL qualification basically gone, it's a risk worth taking.

Assuming Moyes makes it to the end of the season, the Board really has no choice but to back him and spend the money. If he still can't make it work, then at least the next manager will inherit a squad full of talent. Even if he enjoys modest success, they may still axe him on the basis that a better manager should be having more.

Moyes can claim he's has a lot of bad luck, and so he has, but as the old maxim goes, good teams make their own luck. In the meantime we may look at his decisions - ranging from the failure in the summer to address the known weaknesses, not acquiring any of SAF's supposed targets, removing all the coaching staff, strange team selections and tactics, inexplicable substitutions, impolitic utterances, poor man management with the likes of Zaha, etc - and come to the conclusion that bad luck is not the main reason for the slump. At best we have ample reason to feel somewhat insecure.

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Just hope now Mumbai_boy, he is ruining his outstanding career achievements by staying on too long. Join Scholes, Neville and Butt on the coaching team and help the next generation.

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Brendan, you have obviously never seen Blacket play, 3 years ago he looked a really good prospect, pace, strength and decent abbility, however the boy has gone backwards. He was sent back from Blackpool because he was struggling and has also looked well off the pace in the under 21s. I can't see him getting much game time at Birmingham either.

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Raffa I know he hasn't progressed as well as we wanted, but I'd rather give Blackett a chance for one season as backup than keep Buttner. Ince actually wanted to keep him at Blackpool if you from sn interview I read in december as he was impressed with him. If he isn't up to it then we buy a new backup in January/summer 2015.

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03 Feb 2014 13:23:48
Ok I was a Moyes flag waver from the start, he wasn't my first choice or even my second choice. I'm still not entirely sold on him now, but he has to be given 18 months and the financial backing to turn it around.

Fergies genius masked how bad the issues are. I don't think one realised how much of a rebuild we needed.

Moyes has started this. He's began overhauling both the youth and scouting systems, both needed to be done. This is a long term thing though, something a Mourinho couldn't have done.

But its the first team that decides whether Moyes lives or dies. And that is a mess. We had 3 world class players at the start, now 4 with Mata.

Leftback and centre midfield had been allowed to fester under Fergie. Woodwards ineptitude in the summer did not help. I can understand not wanting to sign players to make the numbers in January and wasting money, why settle for Aldi beans when you want Branston. Moyes obviously wants quality. Up to Glazers and Woodward to deliver.

There are some players this season who have not been at the level required, and the problems in the squad have forced dome bad tactical set ups.

I do think Moyes has made mistakes and needs to improve and fast but I also recognise a lot of the situation wasn't his creating.

The jury is still out, I can see what he's trying to do, hopefully he pulls it off, as I said 18 months.

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MrE

I also see what he wants to do and having read the posts here the last few days, it is obvious he is losing some of the undecided fans here and out there with every additional loss or bad result as they will finds flaws with his approach.

I do agree he has made mistakes bit also believe some of the players have been atrocious and do not deserve the shirt or the wages. Every player will have a poor game but some of ours this season are so bad you wonder if any team in the PL would want them.

I am not sure if there is a right or wrong because at the moment people are going to finds flaws in whatever he does and he needs to win to stop the rot.

He needs to bench some players for good for the rest of season in my opinion but the injuries are forcing him to keep using certain players. I also believe some players are leaving and they are not putting in the effort.

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03 Feb 2014 18:13:59
Exactly, there has been a lack of effort from certain players who probably know they have no future. Things have not helped like constant injuries to key players forcing us to rely on players who aren't as good. Look at most peoples bugbears on here welbeck and cleverly, decent squad players but not what you want to be relying on for a half dozen game spell. Not their fault and a lot ogmf blame has to go to Woodward

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03 Feb 2014 09:49:55
Ed002, I have a question for you, do not answer it if you do not want to. A while ago you said that a manager 'MAY' come in to work under SAF for a year before taking charge fully. When you said that were you thinking Moyes or Blanc? Thanks.

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{Ed002's Note - Either - we knew that it would be one or the other and then we knew Blanc was out of teh running. SAF going early changed that.}

Thanks for the reply Ed, this is something I think really could have worked. Phelan leaving with Moyes as SAF's number two. Then they could have worked on the targets together keeping the continuity. There would have been less upheaval and change and the players could have been better prepared for the departure of SAF 12 months into the future.

I really hope Moyes didn't refuse to work under SAF which made him decide to retire early.

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03 Feb 2014 13:14:21
what do you think the defense will be this weekend? Any chance of Evans and Jones being back? Also is Vidic back from his ban?

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03 Feb 2014 13:09:17
Has everyone seen the stat on van Persie only passing to Rooney 3 times in the stoke game, all from the kick off. Clearly a problem does exist.

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Deary me. I think your looking into things a bit to much.

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People really are clutching at straws now aren't they

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MrE

Who did he pass to most?

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I cannot remember us stringing more than three passes together in total. Also why would RvP pass the ball back to central midfield?

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MrE, as a fellow sarky bugger, I like it.

ps. It IS sarcasm isn't it? :)

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Its a good job GDS isn't in on this as he gets very upset if you call him a sarci something, eh GDS :-)

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03 Feb 2014 13:07:58
question: do you think Moyes would win anything if he was managing madrid, barca, city or Bayern which are the clubs who I believe have the best squads?

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03 Feb 2014 13:01:10
Danny Pughunited

You really do take yourself very seriously, don't you?

You and a few others, full of their own self-importance.

There's hardly a post of yours goes by without some snide, sarky comment about those of us who live in the real world, and who know Moyes isn't going anywhere soon (Moysettes?) I make my posts laced with sarcasm, in an effort to person the pomposity of people like yourself, who just love the sound of their own voice, and who think everyone else wants to hear them too. Have any of your posts ever been less than half a page?

I work in a job, this weekend especially, where I see humans at their worst, doing things to each other that many are lucky never to see, dealing with families who've just lost a loved one, and all the time trying to keep the chin up.

I come on here, a banter site, for some light relief, but instead find it full of earnest blowhards, who seem to live permanently up their own rectums.

Football is not that important Danny, and when you become an adult, you'll realise that.

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Oh deary me.

Stevie you stalk this site like an attention seeking child looking for anyone criticising Moyes, posting one line put downs and sarcastic jibes, and then when you're called out for it you revert to personal insults.

I'm sorry if some of the people who post here don't do it for the same reasons you do, and that you have a tough job. But, FFS you actively seek out confrontation and then complain that it's the other people who are ruining your experience.

I, like others, make long posts because it takes a bit of time to engage in debate in a meaningful way. Because I actually like talking about football. I rarely see you talking about anything that happens on the pitch. In fact, you spend more time talking about the people debating football than you do about football.

For a adult man who doesn't think football is that important, do you not find it strange that you devote such a considerable portion of your free time to treating us to your razor sharp wit on a football banter site?

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Danny lol the answer reply is as I many other's expected but my dear friend in the last 7-8 months even before moyes gave his first statement you criticized him for what?
Moyes may or may not be the man to take us forward. but u surely see how rubbish our squad is? When everyone keeps on going about the formations I keep mum. because we simply can't play anything else without new injection of players.
4-2-3-1 with evra? We will be massacred! We don't have an able midfielder to do that covering
yes I agree with you moyes has made rubbishty tactical decisions. but you start spewing venom my friend.
I respect your opinion but its time you realize that our squad is more rubbish. and under confident than we can imagine.
Only Saf can take us to the title with, this squad.
your views makes me thing you would jump of a cliff if moyes actually succeeded.

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Plus I am pretty sure you noticed the only thing that has.changed about our play is moyes.
We still play as rubbishty as we did under fergie for the past couple of seasons.
I wanted a better manager but I will suffer with u and countless others but blaming moyes for everything under the earth and everything wrong about our play and squad is.only going to make us more of a.laughing stock as fans.

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*Grabs the popcorn.

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If I wanted a reasoned debate, I'd go on Question Time, but I use this site for banter. The clues in the title.

I would gladly engage you in reasoned debate about our club, Danny, but you tend to take rumours and half-baked stories from the media, and present it in a way that suits your point of view.

Any rumour, no matter how dubious, if there's an angle to slate Moyes with, or whoever your pet hate is this week, you'll run with it.

I'm not a great tactician, so I leave that to those who do know what they're talking about. I have players I think are good enough, and those who aren't. I don't get involved in things I'm not sure of. But that doesn't stop you. I know my limitations. You just give us the same old view anyway.

I have many views and opinions on this club and our team. I just don't feel the need to tell everyone about them, over and over again.

I try to use a bit of humour, because I have to balance it against those who take it too seriously, and I only mentioned my job because I deal with things that really are important, not whether or not the players may or may not be demotivated by a random Moyes quote.

I'm also a sarky bugger. I have to be in my job, where I have to deal with life's persons. I find that coping mechanism serves me well on this site.

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If people don't like other peoples posts then don't read them, move on to the other posts.

If you come on here for a laugh Stevie you may be in the wrong place. every bugger on here is miserable =)

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Stevie, if you know your limitations you wouldn't keep trying to antagonise people that you lack the capacity to argue with. There has been a lot of discussion on whether Moyes is getting the team to play in a way conducive to winning trophies in the longterm. Now if you, admittedly, having nothing to contribute to this discussion, why do you go out of your way to get involved?

And you do tell everyone your views over and over again. It's just most of your views are on the people talking about Manchester United, rather than Manchester United. If you're bored of what I'm saying and have nothing to contribute or no arguments to contest it, why do you continue to reply? It seems to be a bit of a pointless activity, don't you think.

I will concede that you are humours. I mean where else would you get a self-proclaimed "sarky bugger" criticising someone for making sarcastic comments, without a hint of irony. I forgot, you only "lace" your posts with sarcasm as a parody of people like me. I must admit that I'm confused has your parody of 'mine' sarcasm become your real life persona?

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Seems like it JK. Hate to see how they'd carry on if something really bad ever happened to them, if this is what they're like after a game of football.

I tend to avoid reading his posts for my own sanity, but he had a go at me further down, and after a bad weekend, I snapped.

Shouldn't have went down to that level.

How's the popcorn?

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Who's got the harder Dad or brother? That's what used to sort most of these quarrels out when I was younger.

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Steve not having a pop at you but football is important to a lot of people its all some live for.me personally i'm getting bored lately not just because of moyes we were crap last season as well.ive been match going longer than I've been in work, longer than I've known my wife and a lot longer than fergie managed utd.ive travelled to every part of the uk and all over europe and on my travels I've met a lot of people who have been friends now for over 40 years, there is a social side to it that people enjoy, so yes it is important to a lot of people and probably the thought of the next game gets them through there crap week.:)

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StevieK as both of your posts on this thread are so full of self importance are you going to add irony to your list of content?:-)

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Die Red, before Moyes was hired I said he was the wrong man for the job, for well documented reasons: no winning pedigree, no top level experience and no experience dealing with top class players.

Last season I was also talking about being unimpressed by our general performances, and that the Fergie factor plus RVP was dragging us over the line in far too many games. But that is precisely why we needed to go out and secure a top class successor, someone who could get the most out of the players we have until they had brought in replacements. There is a big difference between expecting us to challenge for the title and expecting us to be in touching distance of the top 4. We were competing when we had Alan Smith playing regularly in midfield and we certainly have enough talent in the squad to be competing with the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs.

Yes some of the senior players are a year older and look like they have gone a season too far at the top level. However, we also have a lot of young players who are a year older and, yet, don't seem to have progressed under Moyes. In fact, the likes of Rafael have gone backwards. Plus the man has spent close to £70m on two, supposedly, top class players and we have one of the best young players in the league plus the return of Fletcher. The squad is certainly not worse than last season, at least on paper. But the players are collectively underperforming and that indicates that the problem is with the manager.

There has been one major tactical change from last season and it isn't just to do with formation. This year we have the worst ratio of attacks through the middle of the pitch, last season we had the seventh best. We have the highest number of crosses in the league by a long margin too. When this has been happening consistently for months and months it tells us that this is how Moyes wants the team to play. It isn't due to poor form or the players getting things wrong. Moyes wants the team to focus their attacks on the wing, in his words to get it to the byline and cut it back. This obviously isn't working and it doesn't compliment the attributes of our best attacking players: Rooney, RVP and now Mata. It is the tactical equivalent of playing the odds: the more times you get the ball into the box, the higher your statistical chance is of scoring. However, no other top team plays like this. They play intricate passing through the centre, and cut on from the wings.

I would be over the moon if Moyes proved me wrong. But with his continued reliance on failed tactics, I just can't see that happening. He has stubbornly stuck to this failed game plan since the start of the season and it has very little to do with the limitations of our players. This is how Moyes wants the team to play, and he often publicly announces that when we play this way we are playing well.

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Really Stevie, you shouldn't have gone down to that level?

You mean when I replied to your post that contained the beautiful line: "You and the rest of the Chicken Licken brigade try to scare everyone by trying to make out that a long-term decline, like Liverpool, is inevitable if this season is a write-off."

Do you not even realise that you're doing it?

You actively go and call people out by name, making sarcastic and dismissive comments about them not living in real world or knowing what's really going on. Usually these posts have nothing to do with what the person you are calling out has actually said. And now you're retreating into victim mode?

Honestly, if you constantly go around trying to provoke people you're not sinking to any level. You are the low water line.

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John, I'm not saying it's not important, but put it this way, what would you rather lose, your wife, or your season ticket? It's all about perspective, and some people on here have none, or it's at best very skewed.

Danny, the difference is, I admit I'm sarky. You seem to lack this capacity. I can also laugh at myself, again, a capacity you seem to lack.


I get involved in some things, because you and certain others come on here repeatedly, using half-truths, if's and buts, and rumours to push your view, and present it like it's the truth. It's not a discussion you want, it's a vehicle to use any little piece of tittle-tattle, as a weapon to use against Moyes, or whoever else you don't like.

Nearly every post you make, whether it's about Moyes, the tactics, the pre-season, the signings, Ferguson, the players, conversations between players, Woodward, the Glazers - they all comes back to your usual conclusion - Moyes isn't good enough.

He may or not be, but most of us want to hear something different now and then.

You need to get out and make some real friends to talk with about football. It'll cut down your post length for a start, and save us all a lot of pain.

ps. I love the part about me lacking the capacity to argue with you, or a couple of your mates. Your self-regard and arrogance is truly breathtaking.

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Haha he has got a point though Danny, by the way whens the autobiography out?.

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Moysettes?

Your posts are filled with antagonistic remarks to those on here who think our manager should be given a chance. If you haven't noticed, then maybe you're the one that can't see.

Nothing wrong with that, or you slagging me off in your post below - I should have mentioned my OP was in response to that, just in case people think I just woke up this morning and decided to have a pop at you.

The difference between us is that I hold my hands up to being a bit dismissive of some people's views, and admit to a bit of slagging now and then. You either don't know you're doing it, or just choose not to admit it.

ps. I get better abuse off my 11 year old son, and usually more common sense from him, when it comes to talking about football as well.

pps. for your info. University of Aberdeen 1989-94 MA History/Politics. A proper Uni, not a glorified polytechnic. But your right, you're crushing wit and reasoned arguments are too much for my feeble little brain. I give in to your superior intelligence.

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Ngiak wonders what's a sarky bugger?
Sold at McDonald's and can penguins eat them?
gan

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There you go again Stevie you never have anything to contribute but spend your time scouring the board for these mysterious half truths. And when you find them, what do you do? Shows us the truth? No, of course not. You make a sarky comment or throw an insult or bring up something unrelated to the discussion.

You seem to think that you're some sort of white knight for Moyes. Saving him from half-truths by insulting those who would dare oppose him. It's not really arrogance to say that you lack the capacity to debate. The level of tactical debate that anyone here is capable of is pretty low, basic stuff. You're the one who admitted that he doesn't have the knowledge to engage with basic tactic debates, so I don't know where that leaves you.

Paul, autobiography is going now going to be a two parter. Second half will deal with the 2014 breakdown and its aftermath.

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Hardly scouring the posts, Danny. It was in your last one. Forgotten already?

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Basic tactical debates? Don't do yourself down, lad. The way you write on here, you'd think you actually believe the Utd hierarchy read this site.

I have a thing called a job, which prevents me sitting down and composing my thoughts. It's often just a snippet on my phone. I certainly don't have time or the inclination to write War and Peace, nevermind read your historic posts. I can guess what they contain without going to all that trouble, because they're probably much like your last one. And the one before that. And the one before that.

At least when other posters come on here, they mix it up a bit. Even if they don't want Moyes, they don't post about him every flipping time. Their posts usually have a light hearted touch too, because they remember it's a banter site and no-one takes it all too seriously. Apart from a couple of notable exceptions.

Like I said, I could take or leave Moyes. He wasn't my first choice, but I'll give him a bit longer to see what he can do. And posting about him won't make a blind bit of difference anyway, because, guess what? Nobody from Utd reads this. Sorry to disappoint you.

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Johndenton, you've had long enough to think about it. For God sake, please tell me it would be the season ticket!

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What half truth was in my last post so Stevie?

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I know you have a job Stevie, you don't half go on about it.

But do you not think that with the amount of time you spend taking the piss and coming up with lame put downs, you could make at least one football related post?

No.

Oh well, I guess you can go back to your high level banter then.

P.s. Did it really take you 5 years to get an MA? Most MA degrees are only a year long. You'd be expected to complete an MA and PhD in that time around here. Guess you're a special case alright.

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I was referring to your Moysettes comment., in relation to you antagonizing people. I think these might be going on slightly out of order now.

I did pull you up on something a while ago, that you took straight from a rumour in the paper.

I remember you prefaced it with, 'if this is true', before going off on one about Moyes. You were prepared to get the lynch mob salivating on a, 'if this is true' That's why I find it hard to take some of your posts seriously.

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You've obviously never heard of a gap year.

I'd love to stay and learn about football from the feet of the master, but I have to take my son to football training. I'll try and learn some tactics while I'm there, so I can debate it with you another time.

Time for you to step away from the keyboard, tidy up your used hankies, and go to bed, son.

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What you're thinking of is when Rafael's agent intimated that he might not be at the club next season. Hardly a rumour taken from the tabloid dregs.

Rafael came out and denied it, but the fact that he had to deny it shows how seriously he took it.

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{Ed002's Note - No that is not what I am thinking of.}

03 Feb 2014 12:57:25
Has anyone seen Oxlade-chamberlain performance for arsenal today? he was outstanding in that midfield role even though he is predominantly a winger/attacking midfielder.
Moyes should try the same thing with Mata. I think he would be deadly in a 4-1-4-1 position with Jones as the defensive destroyer midfilder.
Does anyone share the same view?

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03 Feb 2014 13:10:27
Question for Everyone
Who would you rather have next season on the bench
Wellbeck or Henriquez?
I think Angelo has potential to be way better than Wellbeck, but I think sadly he will again be loaned

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Henriquez as I stated below, Welbeck along with a few others have had enough chances.

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03 Feb 2014 12:40:03
To Valley Gooner,

Your claim that Chelsea and Arsenal have a better Squad than us is laughable. You have added two player's to your squad from last season, and our squad pissed all over yours and Chelsea's last season. Chelsea have added a couple; but I don't think what they added makes their starting 11 any stronger.

Last season we took your best player; and this season we took arguably Chelsea's best player. We also added Fellaini - who Wenger wanted to sign - and a young exciting talent in Januzaj, to the squad.

The only area of the pitch where you and Chelsea have the edge is in the CM area. Everywhere else, we are stronger.

If SAF was still in charge of our team, we would be above you and Chelsea now; of that I have no doubt.

This is painful time for united fans' at the moment, knowing we have a team capable of competing for the PL title; but have a manager who has done everything possible to scupper our season with a catalogue of bad decisions.

I still fancy us to go to your place and get something. Even as sh.t as we are at the minute, your lot seem to bring the best out in us. And RVP just loves scoring against you.

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Are we currently living on the same planet? Our defense is better than yours, our midfield is 10x better than yours, granted you have much better forward options but that's it. How u can say Valencia, cleverley, fletcher, nani, fellani janazui, carrick are better than Ramsey, ozil, Wilshere, carzola. Walcott, arteta, flamini rosicky & chamberlain is outright hilarious. Fergie was a genius. Bit would not have made up 15 points. If he was in charge you would have 8-10 more points maybe.

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This is fickle football at it's finest. On paper MU have a better squad. We won the league at a canter last season, 16 points ahead of Arsenal. We have added Fellaini, Mata & Adnan and Arsenal have added Oezil. The only difference is one team is playing well, the other isn't.

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Your defence is better than us – atm - because you have two decent centre-backs who have had to form a strong partnership because you have no-one else to play there, apart from the Belgium lad, whose confidence is shot to pieces.

Ramsey has had a good season. Wilkshire is always injured. Carzola is a quality player, as is Ozil. Walcott is all about pace; but how much has he won? How much as Chamberlin won? Arteta is decent player, but no better than Carrick or Fletcher. Flamini does a job; but if he was that good, he would not have joined you for nothing. Oh yeah, you have kim kallstrom LOL. He might turn or-right if you ever get him fit.

We have Mata, Kagawa, Rooney, Januzaj, Valencia, Nani and young. That is without Powell, Lingard and Zaha. We have more over-all – and in-depth quality than you in the attacking department.

I won’t even bother talking about strikers. You have none of any note.

You were miles behind us last year, and we had a weaker squad.

If SAF were still manager, or Jose had taken over in the summer instead of Moyes’, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

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Sam, let's not forget they were all calling for AW's head last season and the only difference was a freebie Flamini who was only meant to be training with them and Oezil. The difference between the disappointing dross of last season and this season is 'confidence' and 'continuity'. They are a team playing well as opposed to we are a team playing poorly. If SAF was still in charge and had Mata, Adnan & Fellaini at his disposal, we would be up there with Arsenal. That is why you are seeing the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool doing better than usual. They have continuity, the rest of us have a change in manager. On paper we have a better squad than Arsenal.

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Erm fellas, I think valley gooner might have a point. no point trying to stubbornly defend the indefensible.

just look at the league table and accept our squad is a long way behind arsenal and chelsea, plus light years behind city.

if we were so good, we wouldt be 7th. don't worry though, in time we will be back on top. just strap yourself in and enjoy the ride

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Exactly, Syd.

Arsenal have, hitherto, had a nice run of fixtures against teams of lesser quality. Granted, they have done the business and deserve to be where they are; but if they think they will win the league this season, they're only kidding themselves.

Wenger is a top manager. He has developed his current crop of players' well. They are now reaping the benefits. But to suggest that they have a better squad than us is ludicrous. If their squad was that great, they wouldn't have loaned a 33 year old player from the Russian League.

I am actually looking forward to when we go there next week. I have a feeling that RVP and Mata will have blinders. They both love scoring at the Emirates.

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Andrew, we have been poor this season. Our form is the consequence of a number of reasons. That said, looking at our 'whole' squad in comparison to Arsenal and Chelsea, we have - IMO - more 'in-depth' (in-depth being the operative word) quality than both sides.

Both Arsenal and Chelsea have benefited - this season - from having better defensive partnerships; while we on the other-hand, have played our best CB (imo anyway) in CM. Not having a stable pair at the back has cost us big time. The same applies to the CM area - although we do need a top CM player - and the attacking areas. We just haven't been able to put out our best side consistently enough.

At the end of the day, it is all about opinions; and it is my opinion, that we have a stronger, pound for pound squad, than Chelsea and Arsenal.

In short: we should be doing a lot better.

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03 Feb 2014 12:29:18
For those saying that the players have zero belief in DM, why have Adnan and Roo signed new contracts? Its not money before anyone says it. They would have received the same (or more) elsewhere.

popester
-------------------
It's been 4 months since Adnan signed his contract and Rooney hasn't signed a new deal.

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You ever thought that I could be to get more money from the rooney sale if he decides to leave in the summer?

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03 Feb 2014 12:21:16
Have to say watching one United player at the weekend in a red shirt play with pace directness confidence and good decision making was a breath of fresh air the only problem he was in Wales.

I like others were crying out for him to be given a chance and there is no way anyone can come on here now and say the opposite. The boy showed in 50 minutes on his debut for Cardiff more than any of our wingers have shown all season the guy was a threat a worry to their defence with his electric pace something sorely lacking even still from our team even with the very talented front 4 we have. Its unfathomable to think with the position we are in and the total ineptitude of our wingers that this super talented guy has not even had one chance to show what he is made of. OGS is already raving about him and has only had him a few days.

Its early yet and maybe he will be a flash in the pan but if he does kick on now and has great finish to the season it will only confound the fact that Moyes has not got a clue. You would have to wonder what SAF must be thinking now he paid out 15m for the kid and he has not got a sniff under Moyes.

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03 Feb 2014 13:06:31
According to Phil Neville he was mentally unprepared for life at United hence the step down. He should get his chance if he uses the loan to show what he can do.

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But its not a step down he is still taking on Premier league defenders is he not?

How can you judge if someone is ready or not unless you give him a chance.

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From the way Moyes sets up each game it's pretty obvious he relies on the two wide players to provide cover for the defensive frailties of our fullbacks - particularly Evra. Clearly Zaha wasn't able/willing to do so, hence him 'not being ready'. By the way, I' not agreeing with these tactics - merely pointing them out.

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03 Feb 2014 12:07:31
The probability of making the top 4 is looking very slim at the moment. In a realistic world we would expect the probable departures of star names like Rooney, Vidic, Nani, and possibly RVP if this unfortunate scenario unfolds. This would result to the inability of attracting world class players.
If we then get a couple of mediocre signings along with our young guns, does anyone think we'll have a chance of making the top 4 next season or are we going to become the next Liverpool?
Ed can I have your opinion as well please.
Thanks

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03 Feb 2014 11:34:42
Apparently Moyes is issuing the team individual sat navs so that they can have some idea of where Youngs crosses are going.

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That is brilliant. Whilst he is at it he should mention that as professional football players who earn at worse 50k a week they should be able to pass the ball after 2 touches and go forward.

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03 Feb 2014 10:57:09
So I'm tucking in to my Wright's meat and potato pie (are these the best in the world or what?) and our team is announced and I'm bemused. We seem to have been moving to a 4231 and in all honesty it suits our team. I freely admit I'm no tactician but what were we trying to play? 352 451? Whatever it was injuries blew it apart. Is it just me or has Fletcher been our best mid, since his return, and he's not playing again? The team I wanted and was hoping to see back 4 Jones and Fletcher as the 2, they cover far more ground more quickly and both pass well. Janu, Mata and Rooney behind RVP. Janu ( has been played too much) has been our most consistent forward and he's not played or even subbed on.

Now ed002 says we have nobody lined up for the summer. I was hoping we had after what the guy on tv said on deadline day. Just after the deadline passed he said his sources at OT had assured him he'd be very excited by what was planned in the summer. World cup summer is really a short window. June the 6th I think it opens
players will be with their respective teams then as the WC starts on the 9th till 13th July you would expect most players would take a deserved holiday then. Have to think this was a missed opportunity after how the other results went.

Still let's hope we beat Fulham and, fickle lot we are, can smile again.

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03 Feb 2014 10:03:08
Im running out of patience with Moyes now.
His substitutions, his formations are terrible.
The side looks disjointed unable to string more than 5 passes together. Opponents look like there going to to score eveytime they attack us, it really is dreadful to watch.
He looks completely lost sat on the bench.
The first massive mistake he made was getting rid of all the back room staff and replacing them with clowns like Steve Round, Phil Neville etc.
I can't help but imagine if Fergie would have spent 64 million pounds on two players where we would be now.
Yes Mata is a superb player but again the problem position (Central Midfiled) in the team wasn't addressed AGAIN!
I think we are also desperate for a center back now, a proper commanding one that will shout and talk.
Danny Welbeck is fast becoming my pet hate. His first touch and control are on a par with Hernandez. His finishing is woefull he slips on his arse every two minutes. Even when he eventually scores a goal he slips on his arse.
Which leads me to Tom Cleverley. why oh why oh why did Moyes pick him to play. He is completely talentless and a waste of space. He has 0% input into the game, why didn't Darren Fletcher start?
What's even more worrying was he decided to drop Wayne Rooney into midfield when we were chasing the game. unbeliveable!
I wasn't keen on the appointment in the first place but I really wanted him to succeed but he really isn't doing himself any favours.
Fo me the job is out of his league, I don't see it getting any better.

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Its becoming ore and more apparent that Moyes tactics are to blame. Yes we have bad luck at the moment but even so. His only tactic seems to be to give it to the wingers to get crosses in. Valencia's idea of this is to run. stop. stand still. run to byline then blast a cross in at 576 mph and hope for the best. Ashley Young like to cut in onto his right foot and where his crosses go is anyone's guess. We have just bought one of the most talented players in Mata and we scored on sat from using him correctly so why are we continuing to bypass the talented players and use the wings. Football has moved on now. Teams don't play with out and out wingers and bombard the box with crosses. So why are we, and anyway RVP and Rooney are not brilliant in the air either which adds more bewilderment to this.

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Yes he has spent £64m but Fellaini has been injured pretty much since he joined and Mata has had 2 games. Not really a fair point. Things aren't great and i'm not going to say that people shouldn't air their views, as they are free to do so. People need to understand though that Moyes WILL NOT be sacked and he will be given funds in the summer to sort the first team out.

We signed Fellaini as none of the other targets were signed by Woodward, and Woodward thought we could get him cheaper after his clause ended but he was hugely mistake and ended up overpaying. Not Moyes' fault and not Fellaini's fault either. With Mata, the chance to sign him arose and when a player of that quality comes up you HAVE to go for them. Yes we need CM players but none that Moyes wanted were obviously available or we would have got at least one. I don't even think it was a matter of having to pay a bit more, as top clubs don't want to lose their main players during a window when replacing them is near impossible. Did you want to hugely overspend for a player who would end up a squad player or would stop us from getting the top class CM we need in the summer? We have enough players stuck in our squad that need shifting in order to get better players in, without adding more to that on stupid money.

I agree on Welbeck and Cleverley, both are sh*t and Hernandez is no more than an impact substitute. This season is as painful for me to watch as anyone else, but I have gotten used to the fact that no matter what I want, Moyes will be given time and funds in summer to sort it out, and so i'm not wasting my time thinking any differently.

I have to say though, watching United for the past 2 1/2 seasons has been painful 95% of the time. It has been dire and not just this season. The problems were papered over by SAF and his ability to drag the team to a title and because of his presence on the touchline. No one coming in could have got the same level of performance from this side, especially when a lot kbow they don't have a future and are going through the motions at the minute.

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03 Feb 2014 10:00:39
This might be a daft question, but can some one tell me if Rooney has actually signed a new contract yet?

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03 Feb 2014 09:37:28
Sorry to sound like a broken record. BUT. it was
not Moyes' fault that he was given a 'team' that
was in drastic need of changing. Even the most
blinkered on this page (and not just you Disney)
have moaned and ground about your midfield (or
lack of one) for ages with nothing done to correct
things. In January there was never ' any value in
the market' in the summer there were other reasons.mainly that United were no longer the attraction they once were. No.Ferguson is to blame for your current predicament and Moyes
must be given at least 2 seasons to rebuild the damaged team he was left
A couple of reminders needed in advance of the
predictable replies :
1) I am not a Moyes supporter
2) I know you won the league last season

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Obviously for ground read groaned

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Puzzled

Can you tell me why he picks the wrong players, the wrong formations. His substitutions are bizzare and his tactics are baffling.
We are a goal behind at Stoke and he moves Rooney into central midfield, why not bring Flether on (who should of started instead of that useless person Cleverley) anyway and leave our best player up top.
These are simple mistakes.
The players he has at his disposal now should be fighting for a top 3 finish, there is no excuses anymore.

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Puzzled, I am pretty sure is a scouser. So only two years for Moyes? The scousers I know are praying he stays for three or four.

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Simmo1975- two things - 1. who are we to judge a manager's decisions. He sees want is happening in training etc etc
2. he is trying to deal with the hand he has been dealt

Red Man= I am a scouser, in that I support Liverpool, rather than LIVE in Liverpool- does that automatically mean that my views are wrong?

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Puzzled

I can judge the manager when ever I want to judge him.
I pay for a season ticket and have the right to an opinion.
so there. ner ner!

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Remind me how long Liverpool gave Roy Hodgson?

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03 Feb 2014 09:29:42
We should judge Moyes next January, when he has had a better transfer window and gets in the players of his style, which will reveal a lot about the way we are going to play.


It's ok blaming him for what happened in the summer transfer window but I believe it was mostly down to Ed Woodward.

Now to the results. I really believe we have been unlucky this season, injuries haven't helped and not having RVP and Rooney was a huge blow.
Some of the subs have been questionable and the use of Kagawa hasn't been great but most of the games we have played we have had a good enough team to win.
So IMO the blame is mostly down to the players.

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03 Feb 2014 07:35:12
Now that we have let the dust settle ( 2 transfer windows) it is now time to take stock of where we are.

Things look really bad at the moment.
Team looks dis-jointed and lacking confidence
Too many changes in defence has cost us stability.
We have lost our fear factor.

Reasons for this.aging and sub-standard squad.

Before we think about buying superstars we have to first trim the squad of the weaker/aging players.

Ferdinand. too old and injury prone
Valencia. one trick pony that is not producing consistantly
Cleverly. Just not United standard
Wellbeck. Just not United standard
Evra. like him but maybe time to trade for younger model
Carrick. any slower and he would be going backwards.
Giggs. legend but now qualifies for seniors tour.

We have lost our pace in the team where we used to rip teams apart but by the time Carrick wastes 10 seconds deciding to pass the ball backwards or sidewards opposing teams have set themselves defensively. He for me is the root of the problem. ok we need someone to dictate the pace of the game but not always in reverse.

We have also bought Mata to play out of position in the out of position Kagawa role. make sense.

I still think Moyes can get it right but he has to be like a young Fergie. RUTHLESS

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Players like Valencia, Cleverley, Welbeck & Carrick should be squad players. You cannot have a full squad of world-class players therefore you need your squad players. Player that are happy to be squad players. Obviously Rooney & Van Persie will play ahead of Welbeck when they are fit. Mata or Adnan should be playing ahead of Valencia. We should have better central midfielders playing ahead of Cleverley and Carrick, but these players shouldn't be sold, they should just not be first choice.

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Good post, sums up the situation very well. I would keep Valencia and Wellbeck as squad players, at least for now.

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Syd, Valencia and Carrick are definitely now squad players and Cleverley possibly, but i'm getting less convinced with every game he plays. As he brings nothing to the team, we might as well give another youngster a chance in his squad place. Welbeck though is rubbish, he brings nothing to the team/squad. His control is rubbish, his passing just as bad, he can't shoot or head the ball, when he runs with the ball he never has it under control. He is not good enough to start by a long way and what you need on the bench is a forward who can come on and give you something different when you are struggling. Because he is so poor in front of goal and most other parts of the field, he is of no use to us doing this either. So where in our squad does he fit? In my eyes, he needs to go and let Keane or Henriquez have a go in his squad place.

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Surely some players have to go Syd?

I would have;

Giggs - Retire
Ferdinand - Retire
Nani or Valencia - Sell
Buttner - Give away
Cleverly - Sell, if possible!
Hernandez or Wellbeck - Sell

I would keep Evra for one more season and alternate with new, younger left back.

We definitely need;

1, maybe 2 Centre Backs
1 Left Back
2 Def Mid
1 Striker

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It's more about what the club will do. But IMO they will allow these players to leave from the senior squad:

Kagawa, Nani, Anderson, Hernandez, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra & Giggs.

I think the club will sign a RB, LB, CBx2, CMx2, RW & striker over the next 18 months.

I think three of them will be what we describe as "Stellar" signings.

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Sydney, couldn't disagree with you more!

city's ambition was two have two world class players for every position. they've nearly achieved that and look at them now.

utd were at their most dominant when we were able to replace quality with quality.

we are poor at the moment because the squad players are second rate as well as half the first team.

e.g. now when Rooney and rvp are injured we only have wellbeck and Hernandez. its hardly like replacing Cole and yorke with solksjaer and sheringham is it?

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Syd I agree with the outs, even Kagawa as Moyes clearly doesn't want him. I would add Cleverley and Wwlbeck to those though. Neither offer us anything and we could give the youngsters a chance as they couldn't do any less. It is a lot of players to get rid of but Welbeck, Cleverley, Nani, Kagawa, Anderson, Giggs and Hernandez have done nothing this season anyway so we couldn't be any worse off, in my eyes.

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Andrew, City do not have two world-class RB's, two world-class LB's and four world-class CB's. They do not have two world-class keepers and they do not have four world-class central midfielders and four world-class wingers. You cannot have a full squad of world-class players. It's impossible.

Brendan, Cleverley and Welbeck will be around for a while simply because they are English homegrown players that are happy to be squad players. The club will want to keep their identity and SAF has said in the past how important it is to keep English players in the club. They shouldn't be first choice, but they are decent squad players.

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"Stellar Signings"
Don't you just love them two words.
I wonder how many "Stellar Signings" there will be if we finish 6th / 7th and miss out on Champions League football?
Certain people keep chirping on about all these great signings in the summer. I can't see it if were playing in the Europa League.

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Simmo, let's hope footballers and their agents aren't as narrow minded and fickle as you are being. Us falling outside the top four for a season isn't going to stop a top player signing for Manchester United. If MU are willing to pay the asking amount for the players, then why wouldn't they sign? Players sign a five-year deal, I am sure they can see past the first 12 months of that contract. Sure, if they have absolutely no allegiance to any particular club and both clubs are willing to pay what it takes, then it maybe more difficult, but if you get a player who wants to take on the challenge of replacing Scholes, and you pay him, his club and his agent what they want, then why won't it happen?

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But Syd surely we can let some of the young English guys like Lingard, the Keanes, Powell etc move up and give them a shot. They will do no worse than Cleverley, Welbeck etc for us and may be much better given a chance. We still keep our identity but with a new generation.

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Brendan, Why not Powell, Cleverley, Keanes & Welbeck together? We do not need to sell players for the fun of it, there are enough leaving this summer. The squad isn't an issue, we need to improve the first XI. By improving the first XI we will be making the squad better. Players like Carrick, Cleverley, Valencia etc will be squad players.

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03 Feb 2014 06:01:22
Hi eds and fellow supporters.

Two questions for you

1. How long do you see the club sticking with moyes surely not 6 years if we continue in this vein of form

2: what position do you have to finish to get into the Europa league.

Thoughts please was willing to give moyes a chance, but after 8 yes 8 league defeats I'm not so sure he will be there at ot this time next year

Thoughts please

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{Ed002's Note - (a) A while. (b) 6th or 7th.}

Ed0002 - are you in any way related to Yoda? You share your wisdom in riddles and are so often spot on!

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{Ed002's Note - 'I am afraid taht I don't know who Yoda is.}

02 Feb 2014 20:03:26
Hi Eds, now that things have calmed down, can you elaborate on any possible deals that may have been agreed upon before the summer, if any?

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{Ed002's Note - There won't be any.}

02 Feb 2014 20:01:47
Can any of the eds confirm if we had any interest in Eliaquim Mangala in the recent transfer window? I've read there was interest from Moyes but was surprised we didn't make a move when City tried for him. thanks

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{Ed002's Note - He is overpriced. There was no chance.}

03 Feb 2014 02:26:21
Okay.
I originally hated the appointment of Moyes. Didn't think he had the pedigree or demeanour to pull it off.

Few days later, after stewing on it, I decided he could be the man. if we backed him financially to solidify the defence (namely, LB) and midfield (around 2 CM signings, perhaps a winger or two).

I like the guy, he's salt-of-the-earth and it'd make me tingle if an underdog choice ended up owning it as the new Utd manager.

But we're in February. We've seen nothing but stop-start failure, all in all. Apart from a gritty 1-0win over Arsenal, our wins have come against bottom-tier teams and we're losing to terrible sides regularly.

I am struggling to support Moyes. His tactics are as basic as they come. He seems baffled when we're behind and when we're ahead, he sits back.

"I thought we played well, we were unlucky"

If this followed a 2-1 loss to Chelsea, or a 3-1 loss to City, I wouldn't mind.

When this follows a 2-1 loss at Stoke, I cannot accept it. He is a man simply happy to be there, and trying to enjoy the ride. He has no other tactic than 'hit the wing and cross it low into the box'.

I initially thought that, given the money, Moyes could be the boss.

After ignoring the LB and CM once again, spending 38mill on Mata and playing him wide in a static formation, and losing.

Im done. Moyes will never succeed here, so now its time to make or break. We will not, and should not, sack Moyes til summer. But I don't think this is the man we should bankroll.

Ill root for him but my confidence in him has completely gone.

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Converts are the best. The time to rid ourselves of this man is now enabling a new person to take stock and decide on a transfer policy. Also with the hope that a reinvigorated last few months might be the consequence. No further delays! I have said this since the day Fergus anointed him.

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Playing badly and winning is the sign of a good side. Now according to Moyes quite often we are playing well and losing. What does that say? I was against his appointment and I think I still am. He needs to drastically turn around our fortunes but when has he done that anywhere previously? We have highly decorated players taking instruction from Moyes, round and woods (who I remember as an average international), all who have probably not one medal between them. What do they know about what is required to win major trophies?

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What do Jimmy Lunsden and Steve Round do?
All Fergie's no. 2's were potential managers in their own right.
Queiroz, Mc Claren, Knox, Kidd, Meulensteen, Walter Smith

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Supasub,
I think De Gea and Lindegaard have been pretty Vocal at saying that they like Woods

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03 Feb 2014 00:22:40
Watched a great game today, seeing Athletic Bilbao battle Real Madrid to a 1-1 draw. Ander Herrera is a fine player, all over the pitch, wants the ball, shields, passes, turns under pressure. It's a real shame that we missed out on him last summer.

Real Madrid are playing 4-3-3 now, with Di Maria, Modric, and Alonso in the middle. I give Ancelotti credit to try Di Maria centrally. Alonso does not look that mobile, I could see Madrid trying to replace him next season. I love Modric, such confidence and creativity on the ball. Another one we have missed out on. For me he is Madrid's 2nd best player.

Another observation is about egos. Bilbao are a unique club, of course, playing only Basque players. But you get that sense watching them that they would die for Bilbao, and individual egos don't matter.

With Madrid you have Ronaldo's tremendous ego, but he does back it up. That is one reason I find myself always against them, every play is either through him or seeing how he feels about not getting the ball.

This brings me to Rooney. I think a lot of us are torn about him, he brings a lot to the team, but his ego is too big, like his mood at the moment has to be everybody else's concern. And if he is not happy, then he will just go kick someone like he did yesterday. Or shoot from the halfway line.

Managers don't have it easy these days managing all these egos. Moyes' handling of Moyes is a good debate. Has he gone too far in making Wayne happy?

Sorry for the long post, but I just have to add that Real Madrid are bunch of prima donnas, and my dislike for Sergio Ramos is almost, dare I say it, on John Terry levels. What a dirty cheap-shot artist.

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