Manchester United Banter Archive January 03 2013

03 Jan 2013 23:45:21
I think it's time we brought to the floor the problem that is increasing in Valencia's form...

The first thing I would like to say is he does have an injury that the doctors are trying to fight against. His right leg ( I think) is larger and longer than his left and he is having to use larger in soles just to level that out which is causing back problems for the player.

However the worst thing that has happened to him in the last 12 months is ironically his excellent form of last season. Without doubt on form he can be devastating but he is so predictable its untrue. Every person in Old Trafford knows what he wants to do and doesn't have a plan B. He has no left foot ( hard to believe for a professional footballer). He seems to be scared to take people on. And because he was so good last year teams are putting two men on it making it almost impossible for his game plan to work. This in a way benefits young/nani/giggs because they are left 1 vs 1 but he is becoming a 1 trick pony and at a big club like Utd that is just not good enough.

My verdict is this is really the true Valencia, last season he was just on form and we the fans just have too high expectations for his ability.

RedKnight

I do worry that we may have seen the best of Valencia unfortunately.

One leg being shorter than the other isn't an injury that can be over come, it requires a huge operation which takes years to recover. Which is too long considering the short career of a footballer, especially at Valencia's age. It could also have an effect on his pace.

The best we can do in real terms is put insoles in his footwear and hope that takes the back pain away. But it will always be a problem waiting to flare up.

The other problem he has is we and football as a whole seem to be moving away from the traditional winger to wide forwards who can mix it up abit.
This leaves us with a player struggling to get back from injury and regain his form in a world where his certain skill set is becoming obsolete.

If the rumours are true that Valencia CF are willing to spend around 20m for him then i feel now we should strongly consider it.

Don't get me wrong i love Toni V, but i do worry that he may struggle to be the player he once was. I used to love watching Alan Smith, not the most talented player to play for us but a real fighter who had the right attitude but he was never the same player after a similar injury.

Maybe now is the right time to let Valencia go and look to bring in someone who is more suited to the new style we are trying to adopt.

Shappy

1. Valencia has never been and never ever will be "devastating". Players like Rooney, RVP etce. can be devastating on their day, not someone as talentless as Valencia. Any fullback with a bit of pace and the brain to show him inside will nullify him completely. He becomes more useless than Giggs in the middle of the park.

2. He is good at the one thing he does, but calling it a "trick" is embarrassing.

3. One leg shorter than the other leading to back problems is no excuse for a professional athlete's poor form.

4. Our full-backs have been our best players (or rather, most entertaining) out wide this year. Tells you all you need to know about Valencia's ability, and to a certain extent, Young's.

5. To get the best out of what we have in our CL tie, I would much rather play Valencia at RB with Rafa ahead of him. Valencia only brings hard-work and strength to the table, should be much easier for him to cope with Ronnie than for Rafa. Rafael is light years ahead going forward.

I'm inclined to agree with this...

I mean when Toni was first bought a lot of us including myself were confused as to why he was bought.

He then peaked had the form of his life and what we're seeing is the Valencia you would get before he peaked.

Still a very talented player. but this may be the reason beside the Injury story.

buttner, Welbeck, Young, Rooney, Cleverley - all can play on the wings, if Toni was injured why hasn't SAF decided enough is enough and started a combination of the 2 listed above?

Surely an Injured Toni isn't going to be any better than a Buttner - Young combination for example...

The Moon.

No name,

So you think Valencia is good then?

Did you not watch him last season? He can be absolutely devastating on his day.

GDS

No Name

Your 3rd point is so ignorant it's incredible!

G.A.G.U.S

Alright guys I'll add abit to this injury/condition.

I too have one leg longer than the other by just over 1 centimetre, I have had this naturally as the whole difference is in the shin bone after tests had been completed. Toni's has clearly come from his injury alone as he never suffered from it previously.

A basic insight to it is lower back pain to severe levels as your pelvis is supposed to sit perpendicular to the ground on two equal length legs, this allows for your spine to sit at a natural 90 degree angle from the pelvis now Toni's pain will be like I had when growing up. Solely concentrated in the lower back area but not just when playing this will continue for 1-2 days after with aching muscles and spine in that area. The pain can be crippling to a point where you can be bent over 90 degrees to make it comfortable. I tried a different techniques including the soles, back exercises and the likes but none worked. After the growing pains had passed its been a pain free area unless I play footie on a very hard surface and the tightness comes back.

Basically at his age and the fact he had not dealt previously with it means he may well not get over it and we have a limited Toni on our hands. I doubt very much the soles will make enough difference to him but here's hoping!

Dr Jono

If the fact that Valencia had a leg shorter than the other is true, add to that the fact that he has a piece of metal where his ankle is suposed to be, he might struggle to fins his previous form.

Last season when Valencia came back firing on all cylinders, he absolutely bullied teams and in the second half of the season he dragged us back into the title race, collecting every award in sight. He was the best premier league player in the second half of the season, on par with RVP.

On top of all of that he sacked his manager because he loves the club and doesnt care about payraises and such stuff. He just wants to help the club.

In that sense he is exactly like Chicharito. Top notch attitude and a true proffesional.

So if there's a chance he even play sparingly throughout the season I say let's keep him. This is a player who has shown nothing but sheer loyalty and love for the club and has shown that if given chance to recover fully, he is more than apt to be club legend.

Mick

No name

If you are going to be so inflammatory and insulting at least leave your name. There is very little constructive in your post, just a list of insults. Valencia has not had a good season so far but it's clear you didn't watch him last year.

AJH

Agreed toni hasnt hit the heights of last season but do you really think the other players would give him as much possesion as they do if they thought he wasnt good enough.he puts a decent shift in every game wether thats up front or helping out in defence and come the end of the season will have a decent amount of assists to his name.if he loses the ball he will chase the man down and try and win it back unlike giggys who will just stand there with his hands in the air.
johndenton

I believe Valencia's struggle has multiple reasons.
For one he seems to be "injured", another is the change in our game plan and personnel.
We used to play counter attacking football with Scholes in the middle.
This offered Valencia huge spaces behind the opposing fullbacks to run into, and he had Scholes to deliver the ball into those spaces precisely.

Now we are seeing more if the ball and space is tight, especially behind the fullbacks, since they are mostly pinned back, instead of invited forward.
On top of that we play with Carrick and Cleverly, both decent passers, but neither has the ability to deliver a ball over the top of the back 4 to one of our wingers precisely.

That's as well the reason why our fullbacks shine this season, they are the only ones being played through by the wingers, instead of the wingers themselves.


I am sure our wingers are told to keep hold of the ball more as well.

Jonny8

Just a observation on Valencia and whilst he is not having the best of seasons, the teams play and formation also contribute to that. On occasions when he gets past the last defender on the wing there is hardly anyone in the box and crossing the ball is pointless and we would lose possession and hence the pullback and pass backwards.

Once he is not running at defenders and standing still he is not very effective and short of ideas and not the best dribbler from a standing position.

Shahram

He relies on his pace to beat his man, now that his pace has slowed, he will not be as effective. I think a fully fit Valencia is very hard to play against, but I don't think he will be fully fit again.
He's always been reluctant to come inside and shoot or cross with his left foot, and for me this is partly player fault and partly coaching staff fault for not working and improving him.
Sell if a big offer comes but I don't think anyone will pay £20m for him.
NoMidfield

Shappy

Good post and I agree.

Noname

That's well harsh and I'm thinking you can't have watched the United games during Valencia's 'devastating' spell last season?

Gav

03 Jan 2013 21:19:00
AJ mate, good posts but I think your signature may lead to confusion...

AJH

Why are you posting to yourself....?

; )

Gav

03 Jan 2013 22:29:25
I agree, It could get a bit confusing

AJJ

AJH what you don't know is that his name is Anthony John Hopkins lolol

Pardoe

I see what you did there gav !

Mick

I was trying to politely highlight the obvious confusion. I tried to search to see how long AJ had been posting but you need more than 2 letters to search. Think one of us needs to amend our tag

AJH

Apologies Pardoe - once in the past when you insulted me I assumed you were Glynn
of City fame

Puzzled

03 Jan 2013 19:33:44
Ben amos just been recalled from loan(check his and hulls twitter for clarification) which is due to the fact that de gea is heading for real madrid in a deal worth 20+million

Instead of the wind up, the truth is Amos is no longer first choice, so no point in staying at Hull. De Gea is going nowhere.

Re Amos
"As well as being ousted by new arrival David Stockdale, signed on loan from Fulham three weeks ago, Amos' one-time understudy Eldin Jakupovic is now being preferred as the Tigers' back-up goalkeeper.

City boss Steve Bruce admits to feeling sympathy towards Amos and said: "I've let him have a break for two or three weeks to let him take stock of the whole situation.

"I'm also mindful that Jakupovic is our goalkeeper. Ben can feel hard done to but it's difficult with keepers. It's a specialised position and it's hard to win your place back."

Next rumour please

Red Man

Hasn't stockdale gone back to Fulham now?

I agree that I think fergie is going send Johnstone on loan.

Also I think de gea will leave but not till the summer at the earliest.

If de gea does go though I would like Ter stegan I think he is a class young keeper


Munkydunc

Munky

The quote was a couple of weeks ago but Amos has been sat on the bench for the last two games.

Red Man

Ahh okay red man fair enough no point the youngsters sat on the bench when the could atleast be playing for the u21's


Munkydunc

David stockdale played for fulham against west brom on new years day
johndenton

There is no point Amos sitting on a Championship teams bench whoever it is behind, would not surprise me if he goes out on loan again. It does question his chances at Old Trafford if he can't get into a Hull team, even one doing well

Red Man

03 Jan 2013 19:23:42
Snjeider (whatever the spelling) to QPR?
Apparently...at least it puts that one to bed
Pedroknight

Cant see him going to the bottom club with no chance of european football.
johndenton

03 Jan 2013 20:59:18
The power of twitter drawing yet another gullible fan in

=v1=

03 Jan 2013 21:27:19
So by putting a question on here you think you put it to bed?

It was a spoof BBC twitter that started the rumour, as it usually is with stories that sound too stupid to be true.

GDS

03 Jan 2013 21:25:04
You've been trolled by a twitter spoof account on that rumour.

Haha, BBC Sporf strikes again!

Hoppy

03 Jan 2013 19:04:04
I missed that match... Hoping for someone to give an honest comment on his performance against chelsea

Anyone with me who still thinks Fabio is little more talented than Rafael.. Don't get me wrong, I totally agree that Rafael has proven he is United quality.. but this is just my opinion that Fabio is better talented

AJ

Rafael is faster, stronger, fitter, more energetic and more skillful. Fabio on the other hand has better positioning, is more disciplined and clamer.

He was great defensively, whoscored listed him as top of the match.

Mick

Fabio was always considered the better footballer by the brazilians
johndenton

03 Jan 2013 18:28:05
does anyone else think valencia is overrated whenever i watch him in attack he just kills the pace and instead of cutting in and causing trouble he stops the ball waits and passes back when hes got rvp and co. running into the box

i know hes important to us and a good player but he doesnt have that cutting edge the best wingers have

Just having a bad patch... he looks dangerous when he takes on defenders.. no idea why doesn't do that anymore
But in last couple of games looks like he is getting back. Still an important player for us

AJ

I like valencia but the few problems i have with him are..

he can't shoot very well.
one footed
no skill

the good thing about valencia is..
very fast
disciplined
good crosser
good at defending.

JK92

03 Jan 2013 19:15:58
bring back nani, atleast he has trickery, valencia is a waste of time and has no bottle and i dont buy into this theory that he has an injury

Yes but you just said it he is a good crosser but he never plays i first touch for a goal he always stops it and im not not too sure that he is very fast hes quick but very fast?

im not to flash on cleverly either

The man has had major injuries the last 2 years, what are you doctor and examined him. The man was immense last year, do you not remember that goal vs Blackburn that should have propelled us to the tittle. Ungrateful fan you are

Nani is my favourite player and deserves to start

not that i'd argue with saf but why the f*** is he pushing nani away

The man plays right back when called upon and works great with Rafael. Get a clue

03 Jan 2013 18:11:19
I admit I know nothing about Wilfried Zaha... just looked at some youtube videos.. that's about it...
But if SAF feels he can improve our team, then I am more than happy.. b'cos I believe he can judge a player better than most of us here

Hope he turns into a quality player whether we sign him or not

AJ

03 Jan 2013 19:21:04
i have just done the same AJH. watched a video which some person had put pirates of the carribean sounding music over the top but he does seem to have potential and lot of power and pace. if we could get him cheap it could be worth a shout and hes in a position where we are struggling atm so its not like players like scholes will be keeping him out the team, i hope if we do get him he will get a few chances in team.

'twas AJ, not AJH. A tad confusing I think

AJH

03 Jan 2013 17:27:31
Great to see Fabio Da silva starting and playing well.

Lets hope he stays fit and continues to play well.
Oxred.

Agreed, would be a massive bonus for us if he turned out to be anywhere near as good as his brother!

Gav

Just watched the Chelsea game from yesterday and fabio to me looks like he has bulked up and played real well and put some crunching tackles in. I think we will not be buying any lb and will see him back next year starting.

Shahram

03 Jan 2013 17:06:09
After reading Ed 2's comment on Strootman and how he is likely to sign for either us or Milan and there is a possibility the move could be completed in January, I was wondering who on here has actually seen him play a few games. I know the majority have probably watched youtube clips on here at one time or another but youtube could even make me look like Ronaldo at times and I am obviously not so I was wondering if anyone who has watched him will give us a report or a review of the player.
From what I have read he seems to be a very phsyical player who can tackle but he is decent going forward.. Is he the best available and is he a player we are just settling with or his he on the way to becoming a world class talent. I haven't read or heard much about his passing which is a slight worry as usually the top midfielders have a very good range of passing on them and can swap the play quickly to utilise space. So has anyone on here watched him on a few occassion and willing to state what type of player he is...
The Red Manc

Fingers crossed, Zaha and Strootman would freshen up the squad until the summer. Both can be described as young potential like the manager described.

Sydney!

I've only watched his europa league games this season, and you rarely see a player bossing a game like he did. About 8 tackles per game is all you need to know.

As for his passing, its his best attribute. Long range, short range, through balls, he has got it all. He's like a more mobile Carrick, with a presence. He can even play as a number 10, which says it all about his passing really.

Mick

The Red Manc,

I haven't seen him play and can only comment on clips I've seen like yourself however a work colleague lived in Holland and travels out there pretty much most weekends. Anyway, I asked him about Strootman before Christmas and he said he's the golden boy at the moment in Holland.

My colleague spent Christmas over there and I saw him yesterday and asked what the rumours were regarding Strootman and he said his stock is rising and apparently there were United scouts at the last game?

From what I hear I think he could be a great signing. Physical but also technical.

Ports

The Red Manc
youtube could even make me look like Ronaldo at times

Are you kidding... I bet nothing can make you look like Ronaldo! ;)

Wow, based on Mick's assessment, sign him up!

Gav

I have watched him a few times and is a tackler off a keane mold but no crazy stuff and likes to go forward. He is very well rounded and by no means a bruiser(tiote type) and is very involved in their passing and distribution.

Shahram

Ive seen him play he gets stuck in and as a great range of passing short and long . he also looks to have a bit of pace which we need

Mick's assessment is pretty bang on. I've got a dutch friend who told me to watch out for him before he joined PSV. He is a great young player who has the potential to make it as a top midfielder.

Shappy

03 Jan 2013 16:42:23
what about charlie austin, would'nt cost that much.

Why?

AJH

I actually really rate Austin.

I don't think he'll ever end up at United or a similar club but he's better than most forwards in the EPL.

Personally I think he'll sign for someone like Celtic or end up at a club like Everton, Newcastle, etc.

As for not costing that much, I think he'd cost around £6 Million.

Talented young lad, but unfortunately he just seems to be lacking something for my liking.

The Moon.

Ideal for Celtic when they eventually lose Hooper...

Patzi

03 Jan 2013 13:47:56
Disgraceful from Ballotelli. You guys seen the pictures of him fighting with Mancini. He's not going to fulfill his poteintal if he goes on like this.

T-O-I

Its hilarious though, I love seeing citys 'empire' implode


Anon

I think that's a little harsh. We have no idea what the fight was over and I'd put my money on it being a problem Mancini had.

Mancini IMO is much worse than Balotelli in terms of arrogance and attitude. He's an awful manager.

I mean, admittedly he's got a side full of ego's to control but any half decent manager would have that squad winning everything in sight.

Poor manager, poor attitude failing to control a potentially world class player.

The Moon.

I don't know, I would love to get in a brawl with Mancini. Pity he didn't wallop him!

Jono

Complete shamble of a club and reminds me of a daytime soap opera.

Shahram

It was to do with a bad miss timed tackle on sinclair.. mancini ran over and got in his face and tried to push him on the floor but mario was too strong and mancini looked like a d1ck...
(apparently)

JK92

Apparently it was over a tackle made on Sinclair by Balotelli ha...small club!

DB-Red

Balotelli fouled Sinclair in training. Sinclair was not happy and this will not make him feel any better. He already regrets his City move.

Sydney!

Apparently Mancini tried to take him down but Mario was to strong, no surprise considering the size difference but I would've loved Mario to teach him a lesson and rough him up a bit.

Brilliant, just brilliant. I'm surprised Nasri didn't get involved we all know how tough he is having flinched away from RVP's freekick the other day!

Gav

03 Jan 2013 12:38:46
According to TV sport on the live transfer window news Everton have reported a loss of £9.1 million for 2011 - 2012 season. Might be worth putting in a cheeky bid of £12 million for Baines?

Bryn Mez

I don't think £12m is that cheeky. It's a fair price.

Sydney!

£12m isn't that cheeky ? No, in fact it's extremely rude and outrageous. Try £22m at LEAST.

If you use cashley cole as a barometer, who, supposedly in his day was worth £30m then Baines is worth more, a lot more. Baines is a better player than cole ever was, and is a very humble human being and a much better man than cole is or was.

03 Jan 2013 10:42:39
I think we need to forget about making any huge signings this January. We will only make a major transfer if someone moves for one of our big summer transfer targets and I'm sure fergie will be waiting for developments regarding Ronaldo as we will know for definate his and Real Madrid position over the summer months.

Although...maybe a move for hector Herrera could be a possibility as he isn't cup tied, would only set us back close to 9 million and is a young(23) true box to box midfielder in the same bracket as Arturo Vidal at juventus. Would be a fantastic addition.

Any thoughts people?

Strootman is a class above Herrera imo. So are Bender and Sebastien Rode.

Mick

03 Jan 2013 09:04:14
All these United transfer rumours are a load of rubbish. the only transfers United will be doing will be players going out of the club. Fergie wont risk upsetting is squads balance we are 7 points clear at the top of the league have the best attacking force in europe (if not the world) and we have players coming back from injury. i know we have looked quite shakey at the back but once smalling jones and vidic get a few more games under there belts we will be back to our solid selves. There will be no signings in this window fergie will be concentrating on getting our title back then looking at the summer for new players.

M.U.F.C. Salford.

We are in need of a winger, especially if Nani leaves.

Sydney!

03 Jan 2013 03:16:04
suarez got 784 points on fantasyfootball... i know he did well today today but come on!

The guy at the top has RVP as Captain aswell as Suarez, Berbatov, o'brian, zabaleta Christ almost all the scorers from the 1st. No wonder he had 104 points!

I'm 100 points behind now in 7th!

Jono

I had RVP, Suarez captain, zabaleta, Baines and Rafael. Just a shame I had a midfield 3 of Mata, Ramieres and Dyer...


Anon

Tell me about it. The chances of catching him are getting slim for me as our teams are simular. Loking forward to using my jan WC.

Adam Dean

03 Jan 2013 01:01:55
Sir Alex looking very closely at zaha supposed move to arsenal looking doubtful right now

02 Jan 2013 19:59:32
Hi Ed. I was just wondering if you know whether Man United are seriously interested in Zaha and looking to buy him?

Cheers,

Rudderpost.

I would be insanely disappointed in signing Zaha. He's done nothing to suggest he can cut it, and if we swap him for Nani, I'd be disgusted (and I'm not even a big Nani fan).

RED_SKY

I see Zaha as a Obertan, Bebe type player. A young player that the manager will work on. He will not be a direct replacement for Nani per se as the club were looking at Moura and he is more of a right forward. I think the manager is looking to add better young players than we were getting. Henriquez, Powell, Zaha.

Sydney!

RED_SKY agree a 100%.

LOL Sydney the players you have likened him to have turned out to be absolute dogs and quite embarrassing to us as a club. For 10 Mill on a young player, it is suppose to get you a quite finished article and potential superstar of the future with some rough edges to smooth out. Varrane, Vidal all went for that sort of money.

Shahram

Shahram, I am using Bebe and Obertan as examples of SAF buying potential in the past. Like I said in my last post the manager seems to be buying 'better' quality talent for a little more cash these days.

Vidal was under £10m because he had less than a year on his current deal. Varane played for a club who had just been relegated to Ligue 2. Zaha has a long contract and carries a English premium.

Sydney!

C'mon Sydney take a joke:) my point was 10 mill, british or not is a lot for a player that you think is in the Bebe territory and already makes me shiver.

The fact that the old man is back buying another winger makes me shiver even more. Eventually after a couple hunderd million pounds, I am sure we would find the ideal 2 wingers:)

I am amused when he says there is no value in buying in January but can still sanction a Zaha buy if true.

Anyway, I think it will be one of those transfer windows where we will be watching quite a bit of activity but don't see us buying anyone.

Shahram

Syd,

I know where you're coming from, but we've been saying all season - we have enough 'potential', we need a new spark that will make an immediate impact. But even when we've been over-run in CM this season, in most games, we're STILL targetting 'skillful' attacking youngsters like Zaha instead of what we all know we need.

RED_SKY

Shahram, I never said he was in the Bebe territory. I said the manager likes to buy potential and Zaha is potential. The manager has been buying higher grade talent from when he was buying Tosic, Obertan, Bebe etc.

I do not see Zaha has a replacement for Nani. More of a Obertan, Bebe, Tosic kind of buy, ONLY BETTER.

Sydney!

RED, I meant for the central midfield. With Bebe leaving we do have a space for a 'potential' in the wing department. The manager has always looked at wingers with potential, Bebe, Obertan, Tosic. Zaha is just a higher quality potential player.

In regards to central midfield we need to go for the finished article, but with Valencia and young as wingers Zaha will be a breath of fresh air to have on the bench to be able to give one of them a rest. I do not see Zaha replacing Nani long-term, I expect we will look at a Moura/Rodriguez type again in the summer.

Sydney!

03 Jan 2013 00:17:09
Liverpool won two games in a row.

Brace yourselves lads.

StevieK

Lfc already posted earlier, it's gonna be a long week fellas!

-JakeW

Hopefully they play again soon, and things can get back to normal :)

StevieK

We cans sort them out in our match against then ;)

-JakeW