Manchester United Banter Archive January 03 2014

03 Jan 2014 22:02:07
Thanks to Ed002 for the fantastic update earlier today, it is great to see everything gathered together in a single piece like that.

Really appreciated - it must be quite some work to pull something like that together for all the sites whilst keeping up the day job!

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Woodward is smarting from last summer and offers silly money (plus Nani/Ando?!) for Vidal. Here's hoping :)

Where do I find this piece?

So, a vacation on Spain is being interpreted as a negotiation rather than a much undeserved winter break?

DB

I think Vidal will be a big fee and Juve wants the cash and if they take Nani it would not be for a big fee. I would not even know what the number would be in this day and age. He is the best in the business at what he does IMO.

Peashooter

Check the rumor page.

I would think an offer of 40 million would do it. but Juve would want cash and that's not really how we've ever conducted our transfers. To let a player of his caliber go just because we couldn't get the cash together would be incredibly annoying.

04 Jan 2014 08:27:27
Juventus are doing brilliant in Seria A, They made some good business in CL last season. They have the chance to win the Domestic Double this season.
A Move for either Pogba or Vidal might be realistic in Summer. But I can't see them selling one of their most influential player in next 25 days.
I also fear the fee they would demand. Will we splash 40+ on a single player??

Andy

I think we have something like a 100 million in cash so that should not be a problem. The real question is if we could agree on a valuation. I said all along 40 million is what we would pay for strikers and cm and he fits the mold.

If it does happen it would be the biggest deal of the Jan transfer market and he would be some player for us.

I don't see reason to worry about the value of certain players that's the way it is thesedays and as a club we should move with the times. If vidal is available for 50 million I would say pay it because he would improve our team greatly and also strike fear into our opponents and make a big statement. Let's be honest Arturo Vidal is a beast and could galvanize all the players aswell just like ozil did for arsenal plus its all well and good sayin we bring in most mobey it needs to be used. Vidal is the perfect fit I think along with a LB if baines is there for 15 million take it because then we have 2 players who come straight into team and improve us greatly who knows what we could achieve then guys. The one thing which worries me above all else is it seems there is a 30m cap per signing but I sincerely hope I'm proved wrong

Damon86

I agree with you. Not sure about the 30 million cap and I know a few around here keep touting this but let's wait and see if this pursuit turns into a deal as it will definitely kill that theory.

I would not be surprised if Juve are asking for something like 50 million euros. He is a bigger influence than Ozil IMO and a better version of Roy Keane.

Damon86,
I agree to an extent, but the club will not pay massively over the odds just out of desperation. Nor would I want us to, look what happened when Liverpool did that with Andy Carroll. Having said that I do agree that Vidal would be a great signing. He is arguably the best at what he does in the world, and would be the perfect fit for us.

Realistically I would say Vidal is a £40 million footballer and if Juve were asking for that sort of fee we would pay it, unfortunately I doubt Juve are valuing him fairly (especially with us) and will ask for closer to £50 mil. I want players in as much as anyone on here but really a line has to be drawn we can not be dragged over hot coals by every club in Europe because they know we need a couple of players. Baines is a prime example I would love him to come and think he would improve us immensly but be serious £20+ mill for a nearly 30 year old with very little European experience? its getting daft

GCU + Betty

Yes definitely Vidal is a beast of a player a proper box to box type. 50 million is steep but if we could get him for 35-40 I think it would be a good deal in this day and age.

Liverpool signing Carroll for 35 million was probably 1 of the most daft signings I can remember he does not suit their style of play and I could never see the logic in that plus it was on the back of a good 3 or 4 months in the prem and a strong season in the championship.

If we could strike a deal with Juventus for Vidal he along with maybe baines or coentrao I would be very pleased with that window as two of our problem areas would of been addressed. What people must realise is look at the players Moyes has gone for clearly he realises the problem areas and whether they haven't been signed is purely not his fault. For all Fergie's goodness he turned a blind eye to CM and LB IMO.

A left back and CM could be difference to a big push for the title, Champions league or if disaster struck not in top 4 and Europa league or worst case scenario nothing at all! That could then lead to RVP and Rooney both leaving and that would need us dipping into the market again so better for the club to put a bit of elbow grease in now and get couple of starting 11 players in.

On another note guys or Ed's the news on Lewandowski's move to Bayern has gone quiet? Isit sealed or is Pep not too keen on him.

Cheers Lads let's hope Woodward and the Glazers give us Loyal fans a treat

03 Jan 2014 21:45:16
Hi guys. 1st can I say it was a great piece from ed002 on where we are with the transfers. I really hope the glazers dig deep and really give moyes the backing. We need to invest now! The summer will be too late, we can still attract top players at the moment. But if we don't invest we are not going to make the top 4. Moyes deserves to put his stamp on are squad. We need baines, for me he is a must. Let buttner learn from him and let evra go. Mata is never going to happen. We need Herrera or koke. To add something to our embarrassing midfield. we have a lot of dead wood in our team and I fear we are going to get behind city, Chelsea, arsenal, spurs in the title race. But moyes has to be given time

03 Jan 2014 19:37:30
If we have some serious money to Buy this window.
Dembele, 20mill+. He is exactly what we need. Very very difficult to tempt Spurs, But a chance to Join UTD would fancy him to move.

03 Jan 2014 17:36:49
Hey all,

Been a while since I've posted but this window, in my eyes, is one of the more important ones in years as if we don't strengthen I can't see us making it higher than 4th in the table. I don't claim to have any inside info, just a supporter with a modest wishlist.

I know that everyone on this site knows that we need two CMs, a LB, and a CB. I think that it is imperative that we at least get one CM and LB in this window. Over the last couple of days it appears that Vidal could be unsettled or ready to move on from Juve. I think Vidal would instantly take our team into that next level. The guy has everything that we need in a central midfielder, he can pass, run, score from distance, and put in a tackle. Honestly, if Jubr have any interest in Nani I would shell out 35-40 plus Nani to acquire his services. In the likely event of that not happening I would love to see United put in a 20m bid for Cabaye. He'd be a cheaper option with substantial Prem experience and has great vision, passing ability, and deadly from set pieces.

In addition to a CM I would love to see a LB. Our defense had been leaking goals from the left side for years but until this season we have been able to overcome Evra's lack for concentration by scoring 3 or 4 goals a game. I have absetuely no idea who Moyes plans to bring in.

Last thought, if Mata is genuinely prepared to move I would love for United to put in an accaptable mid for the Spaniard.

Ideally I would like to see this lineup before January ends

---------------De Gea--------------
-Rafa---Jones---Smalling-Baines-
---------Vidal----Fellaini---------
--Januzaj------Rooney----Mata--
-----------------RvP-------------

I know that this is a pipe dream but I fully believe that Fellaiji will come good for us and this squad could make a late title charge if the top half of the table continues to beat each other up.

Cheers ladies and gents and Happy New Year,
SpartyOn

03 Jan 2014 19:18:16
Mata on the LW is a danger. he is a perfect No.10. Play him there and you get the result.

SpartyOn. I agree, this window is incredibly important. but it's also a tricky one! With the world cup coming up players are wanting game time, but equally they will be looking for stability (in terms of training and comfort of whatever league they'e in). Many won't want to move I feel. The team you posted is a very strong one. it wouldn't win us the league or the CL, but it would get us top 4 IMO (I'd swap Baines for Coentrao though).

If Mata is available. we have to go for him. Mourinho bid for Rooney to unsettle him in the Summer, and it didn't work, he was never going to offer the money he knew would be necessary to land him. A lot of people are saying we won't get Mata because we didn't let Chelsea have Rooney; the two are completely different situations. I feel if a respectable bid was to go in (28-32 million), it may just get noticed.

03 Jan 2014 17:05:39
Theres a lot of negativity on here today, everyone is entitled to their opinion but it is the same old stuff each and everyday.

Hello 'Attitude' your a positive person aren't you. I think you missed out the word 'Bad' at the start of your username? Have you posted anything positive today? The way you are talking is very spoilt, as if you only support United because they have been so dominant in recent years. The way you talk as if we should win every single game, with ease. This is football my friend, a game of two teams, each with just as much right as the other.

Yes, I honestly believe United will make the top 4, its below are expectations, but its an achievement, is that not good enough for you? Mate you need to stop slagging off everybody connected with Manchester United, and start supporting the team your supposed to love. David Moyes is the manager, the Glazers are the owners and Ashley Young and Pat Evra are Manchester United players.

My favourite quote from you today, and you are a United fan aren't you?

'Fresh' talks about Koke and your response is. "Koke would cost us some serious money" well do you not want us to spend it. You constantly slag of the midfield, yet you act as if you don't want this RUMOUR to be true. Yes he will cost us some serious money, and yes the Glazers may not sanction it, but come on I want it to be true, why not talk about how he could improve us?

Come on man, support the team, you ain't going to win any points by slagging them off. Just remember this "Its only a game!"

Sorry this was me, I must have been timed out

03 Jan 2014 19:23:49
I am in between Attitude and Arrogance my dear frnd.

I don't wanna us to win all the games. But it sucks big time seeing UTD at 7th. I am not sure how u feeling about it.

Some Positive.

Yes. I have one. Rooney would miss at least 8 weeks. which means 8 games, By the time he returns I wonder where we would be.

03 Jan 2014 19:26:00
Koke would cost us serious money. Yes. I want that player. But why don't you guys follow the Eds, Koke has signed a contract extension in the summer. so as Costa and Vidal.
Or you happy yourself being disappointed like the fabrigas saga.

03 Jan 2014 16:35:11
Hey Ed002 I hope your well mate and youee trip went well, happy new year.

I was wondering what is the situation regarding Vidal, are juve willing to sell for the right price or is it all just media bs? I see we seem to being linked very strongly to him this month and I read on the chelsea page u said hw could move in jan, it just doesn't seem to compute to me.

Also is this 'delegation' we have apprently sent ti spain true ir again just more media bs? I respect ure prob very busy so please take your time ib answering, but any info u have would be greatly appreciated.

Again thanks

{Ed002's Note - I have answered this.}

Yes I have just seen that, thank you

03 Jan 2014 15:06:37
Ed's

Whats the score with this Alex Sandro rumour? seems to have gone very quiet, I personally think he is our best bet.

He's strong, fast and technically gifted.

Also which midfielder are we closest to? i'm glad we don't seem to be ion for guarin anymore, he's not what we need, we need a Cabella/Reus/Gundogan/Koke type of player. Someone who can pick a pass and puts a shift in.

Also with our current squad situation i'd quite like a rigth back, seeing as we have no cover for Rafael when he's injured, Smalling and Jones can do half a job but, one - I WANT JONES AS A CENTRE BACK (hes our best cb atm with Evans) and two - Smalling inst as gifted going foward.

03 Jan 2014 15:13:05
Christ, three lawyers have been sent to Atletico to broker a deal for Koke - I wonder if we know who this delegation is this time. God help us.

Is this true Fresh? Where did you hear this

03 Jan 2014 15:59:32
Koke would cost us some serious money and he has signed a contract extension very recently.

Where have you heard that?

Where have u heard this? because I can't seem to find a single source for this!

He heard it of it's BS.

Sorry Fresh its not 3 lawyers, its 3 wise men a little late, Ed Woodward and the chuckle brothers.

03 Jan 2014 12:49:08
With champions league qualification worth between £30 and £50 mil. not being in the top 4 makes very little sense. It's not just the lack of revenue, the lure of CL attracts top players, without it will be tougher to sign who we want in the summer.

Hand on heart I don't see us qualifying as we are.
I'll still be supporting no matter where we end up and I can rarely make mid week games so CL is mainly a TV job for me, still given a preference I'd rather see us at the top or at least competing for top. What I'm trying to say is not going the extra to get what we need this window may end up costing us more in the long run.

We can all argue/pontificate about what we need and I'm really looking forward to Ed02's list of who we may get. Still I think I'll prefer my dream world of who I'd like us to sign. Walter Mitty I'm after your job.

03 Jan 2014 13:41:37
What does everyone think about changing our formation to a 3511 playing evra and Rafael as wing backs who are both attack minded. Cb of vidic jones smalling or Evans .Midfield of Rooney januzi or kagawa interchanging with another holding cm player. RVP up front or Hernandez when RVP not playing. I think we would score stacks of goals
That would mean we could sell Valencia and young to a donkey sanctuary along with Anderson, and Nani that's if they would take them. We could then still buy a cm player or give youth a chance. We wouldn't need to worry to much about buying wingers as the days of wing play are long gone for now.?

I've never seen us or anyone historically do well playing 3 centre backs as a consistent formation. I prefer a deep lying DM which makes it almost the same thing anyway but more forward thinking. The best sides have at least one dm or a cb who steps into midfield. I think people get too caught up in particular formations when great sides and the modern game needs teams to be able to adapt during a match albeit your defence needs to stay pretty much consistent during a game and that includes a dm.

03 Jan 2014 14:22:33
It won't work well with our defenders. And BTW Evra is not an attack minded LB, He has lost his pace and he tries to get forward most times.
Against a Mobile attack this would fail from wings.
Imagine walcott against Evra?.

Young is on a pretty high wage and No PL team would take him. other than Sam Allardyce might be intersted (still plays with 4-4-2).
I am worried how are we going to offload these 4?. and what about our midfield?

Andf FFS Rooney isn't a MF. he is a striker.

Wtf attitude, Evra is not an attack minded full back? Really, what the hell is he then?

I think Young is attracting interest from Swansea, Newcastle and Villa with interest in Evra from France. There is clearly interest in Nani from Italy and interest in Anderson and Buttner from Fulham and Spurs. So I think if we set the price right, we will be able to do deals.

03 Jan 2014 19:32:11
Good If Young is attracting Interest, But we might have to take a huge loss and I highly doubt on his wages.

Evra should have been Off in the summer.

Anderson to Fulham?. Fulham needs a complete team.Y are they after Anderson?. and what about his wages.?

03 Jan 2014 09:53:26
Does anybody know when we last lost four home games in a single season? Suspect we may end up with more though!

2001/02 season Lost 6 home and 3 away. Finished 3rd, 10 points behind Arsenal with Liverpool 2nd.

That's just league game of course.

In 2003/2004 we also finished 3rd and lost a bunch of games both home and away after having won the league in 2002/2003 season. I can't remember how many home losses.

Whilst some people are in shock, we have had similar seasons in the past with a lot better teams than this current bunch and back in those days the league was much easier than what it is today.

In the press yesterday they said at the same stage in the season this was our worst home record for 51 years.

03 Jan 2014 09:39:37
Annoyed with Moyes (yet again!) after Sunday's game trying to make out the only reason we didn't win is because we weren't given a penalty, when the real reason was that Spurs came to "fortress Old Trafford" and out-played our misfits, simple as that. Get a grip on reality Moyes.

Don't remember Fergie getting slated for using the same type of excuses for the last 27 years. I'm surprised that Moyes hasn't been blamed for England losing the Ashes too!

Did you watch the game? We certainly were not outplayed.

Red

Talking complete nonsense, I bet you did not watch the game. Spurs sat back and defended, we dominated, possession, shots, corners but can't get the ball into the net and conceded twice from the left flank on counters because Janusaj did not track back and evra went to sleep. WE were robbed on a penalty as well.

If you are going to post then post something that has some intelligence.

03 Jan 2014 11:23:18
So what do you Expect from a visiting team?. All out attack?. Nonsesnse. they had their game plans set. and Believe me, they were the few teams who started 2 up front and still found a result.
We had balls. We didn't had anything else.
Lenon and Soldado had 2 clear cut chances to finish the game. we were caought at their blistering pace. and moreover we were pretty poor in the middle of the park. All I saw was Janugaz. Each and every attack came from him.

Attitude

If you are going to look at it that way, yep they were great. We should play like that.

03 Jan 2014 12:25:02
God Created.
Mate If you look at the Players Spurs have got, Its a nightmare for any opposition. They have almost 7 first team players Injured. and they are getting back to their Best.
But No Excuse, we should have won our Home Game.

GDS and GCU

Before the 2-1, they're clearly better than us. They won deservedly.

The penalty is just a poor excuse. No one can argue that we doomed this season. It's not like we're playing well but we lost, we aren't playing well and we are losing in consequence of that.

What I found surprising is that people think that is normal to loose at home like that. We're so proud.

Nick86

We are not smashing teams at home like we used and that has been the case for a few years. You do realize that we had a pretty poor run even last season towards the end but it went unnoticed as the league was won in the first half of the season.

I am not sure what deservedly is in your book mate.We can disagree on one thing if we played the way spurs played against us away from home, people would be up in arms about our lack of control even if when we win. They hit us with 2 counters and withstood a Barage of pressure.

We seem to have the same script this season. We struggle to get that key first goal against better opposition and then get hit on the counter. We are not good chasing games as we leave ourselves too open to the counter.

Attitude

Please save me the spurs lecture and where have you been may I ask. Even when they were in melt down mode a few weeks ago, I posted they are going to be more in the running for top 4 than Everton or Newcastle, so I know exactly what they have and what they are missing. Our best first 11 is still better than their best first 11.

There is a clear divide on this board as some see all the negatives and some see positives even when the results are not going our way. I think most people struggle with the fact that we are not dominant anymore and that is function of other teams being better and us not investing in players and it has finally caught up.

18 games to go in the league so let us wait and see where we are. March is a brutal month for us we will need a fully fit and heathy squad.

"The penalty is just a poor excuse."

Really, why is that. It should have been given and would have made a big difference it terms of keeping us ahead of spurs and point closer to teams above us.

I can see the press headlines already if it was the other way round. Nothing about us winning but the injustice of spurs being denied a clear penalty.

Janusaj is getting lumps kicked out of him but he makes the headlines for diving. The press in the UK hate us, which is a function SAF treating them like sh. t for years and just generally because we are United.

03 Jan 2014 16:03:17
GOD.
Mate with respect to our club, Ashley young have won us more penalties than any other player on the planet without actually deserving it.
At Home we shouldn't rely on 94th min penalty to seal the win. If we were good enough we would have won this long in First Half.

Shahram, sadly people these days have lost sight of what a penalty is. If a goalkeeper goes for the ball and connects with the player (regardless of if the player jumped to avoid challenge) it's a penalty. If it happened outside the box it would have been a freekick and the keeper would have been booked. People have lost sight of what a penalty actually is. Skrtel should have given away about 30 already this season, but referees do not like to give penalties even when they are PENALTIES.

Sydney

It is open hunting season on us including from some of our fans which is truly sad. Some are not even worth responding to at the moment as they are spewing complete nonsense stuff and lack the character to deal with adversity.

Young is also out now with a shoulder injury, so is rooney. We have an alarming number of injuries now and quite a heavy schedule given being still Involved in all competitions. I know it sound terrible but not a bad thing if we get knocked out of one of the domestic cups and can focus on the League, CL and one domestic Cup.

03 Jan 2014 08:21:49
Seeing as we have extended all loan deals, you'd maybe think we have a few deals close to completion, although some of this are only extended to end of January so maybe not that confident. It certainly doesn't bring confidence that deals will be done.

I believe it when I see it. We talk a good game.
Even if we bought the players, Moyes will play the wrong formation, cause he's clueless.

03 Jan 2014 00:41:19
it occurs to me that even if we write off this season as a transitional one we may still have to sign at least 1 probably 2 players this january.

it is widely recognized that we still need a creative central midfielder to replace scholes, a decent left sided attacker as januzaj can't play every game, and we could do with back up for raphael at rb as smalling/ jones will be needed at cb
now when you take into account that this is more than likely the last season for rio, evra and giggs and come summer we are already needing a cb, a lb, a rb, a lw and 2x cm (it has been a few years since giggs could be considered a genuine lw so cm)

both vidic and carrick have signed a 1yr extension so they will be with us next year and we will need them not so much on the pitch but more in the dressing room, but if we're being honest, I don't think any of us are expecting to see them continuing much after next season. the same can probably be said of fletcher too, meaning we will soon be needing 2x cb, a rb, a lb, a lw and 3x cm (3, as we have already brought in fellaini)

and just to make matters worse we also have to replace those players who moyes will want to move on, likely fabio, buttner, young, anderson, lindergaard, maybe nani and I wouldn't be surprised zaha (although a loan is more likely)
you could have youth stepping up as januzaj has done this season, but other than powell coming back I don't really see anyone else making that next step that soon, maybe blackett as back up lb

so realistically over the next 2 seasons we could need to bring in a gk, a rb, a lb, 3x cm a lw and maybe a rw too if nani or zaha go, I have not included a fwd as I think by the time rvp retires one of the youth will be ready eg keane
regardless, that is still a hell of a lot of players over a very short period (all needing time to bed in) it may be worth paying a little extra now and getting the right players in (or atleast signed and join in summer - koke)

Dags, good post but can't see powers-that-be forking out the necessary cash.

03 Jan 2014 10:52:43
There is a lot wrong with our current squad and many playerd need moving on and replacing. But we have had a very large squad for a long time, I suspect from here on we will look to have a smaller squad but hopefully with more talent, then supplement the numbers with youth players.

Lindegaard may well leave but he could be replaced with Amos and/or Johnstone we also have Gollini in the youth set up who is looking good. So as we would be losing a back up keeper then there really is no need to look to bring one in as we have good youth who could sit on the bench instead.

Same with back up to Rafael, Valencia, Smalling and Jones can all play at RB if needed. They may not be natural RBs but they can cover. If not then Vermijl or Valera could step up from the youth set up.

I would also expect to see the Keane twins, Blackett, Pearson, Lingard, Powell and Wilson all make appearances over the next few seasons.

So we could see 7/8 players from our youth set up replace squad players such as Young, Anderson and Lindegaard.

If we add 5/6 high quality first team players to our squad as well as getting these lads to step up we will have a slightly smaller yet more talented squad.

This is one of the reasons I feel Moyes was appointed, he needs less players over the course of the season as he makes sure the players he has got have a higher level of fitness so they can play more games. He has also shown a desire to bring young players through, he has give Januzaj far more game time than I suspect Sir Alex would have this season and he has said he is focused on the progress of Lingard and Powell. This points to him looking at bringing more youth through.

If we bring more youth through then we can spend less on squad players such as Lindegaard or Buttner and spend more on first team targets. This is what I think the long term plan is.

Shappy

I think they are going to change a lot of stuff, including youth ranks. The stuff about the Bulgarian defender, the Romanian prospects and now this 18 year old striker, it looks like they are bringing in players who at 17 or 18 have had the majority of their development and coaching already and getting them ready for fist team in a short time span.

I do agree he will prune this squad because let's face it what is the point of having someone in the squad if you play them twice a year. Someone from the youth ranks can do that for you (Buttner, Fabio).

I also believe he will clean up the first team and we will see major changes over the next few windows and up to 10 to 11 players, who are currently in the squad will be replaced by new signings and boys from the academy.

Guys like Kagawa, Zaha are gone unless they significantly improve their play and will not be what he will build his team around.

Thanks redsince68, tbh I can't see how they can't spend. they are foremost business men, and must realize that we need to be successful on the pitch in order to be commercially successful. I firmly believe that as it stands the debt against the club is entirely manageable will be completely paid off in a few seasons time (assuming we are successful that is)

shappy, I agree with you in regards to the downsizing of our squad, but even so, I do not think there are enough youth ready to play in the prem (for us) just yet and may mean keeping players such as nani and anderson for yet another year. out of those you selected only really powell and maybe lingaard would really get 10+ games next season, but that may put extra pressure on januzaj unless we were to get a cam who could also play on the left such as mata.
in regards to back up for rafael, yes jones and smalling can play there but my point still stands they are not right backs, and although they can do a job there, they are too easily exposed. I would rather give varela a chance and keep with a settled partnership at cb, that way you could play smalling and evans consistently and always have jones to bring on at rb if it is too much for varela, and have keane as back up for cb to gain experience
as for lb, evra is proving to be a consistent weak link so may be worth giving buttner more game time and have blackett as backup and letting evra leave for france, at the very least this will give buttner more game time to improve to fetch a higher price tag
that being said, and given the time that it took for vidic and evra to settle, I still think it would be wiser to bring in a new cb and lb soon to adapt to life at old trafford and so we can have a consistent back four
bringing in another cb and bringing up keane as back up would also allow you to play jones, imo, would be his best position for us, I think he would be a great cb but I feel he would offer more and be even better as a defensive midfielder. played alongside fellaini or possible transfers such as koke, herrara or vidal would give us excellent defensive cover which would in turn allow our more attacking players more freedom with the confidence of who is behind them. it would also allow us to play a 4-2-3-1 system with plenty of movement behind the main striker, whilst still having the personnel to switch to a 4-4-2 if needed