Manchester United Banter Archive January 03 2018

03 Jan 2018 21:43:06
what did people make of morata in that game.

{Ed004's Note - Relieved that we have Lukaku}

03 Jan 2018 21:51:21
Spot on ed a bullet dodged imo.

{Ed004's Note - If that was Lukaku tonight we would be still reading about it in his testimonial}

03 Jan 2018 22:36:47
He was brilliant he gained arsenal a point.

04 Jan 2018 03:07:22
Lukaku gets far too much stick. Very good player.

04 Jan 2018 06:03:29
It is possible for both to be donkeys!

Morata had an off day, Lukaku has had an off few months imo.

04 Jan 2018 08:42:16
Beast seems you don't watch Morata as much.

04 Jan 2018 00:45:33
Ed 04 lol quality pal.

04 Jan 2018 11:33:24
I think that is being a little harsh on lukaku, during our first 10 games he had a lot of chances and finished quite well.
During our second 10 games the chances seemed to have dried up for him, therefore he has not scored many
They guy has scored quite a decent amount of goals for his age so far, he needs better service than what he is getting at the moment.

04 Jan 2018 13:42:39
True Darv.

04 Jan 2018 13:26:43
I don't think we play to his strengths that often, he seems more of a striker who relies on his wingers putting in balls from the side. I think half of our problems will be solved if we just add decent width.
Young and Shaw have been good out wide, Martial and Rashford aren't wingers.
1-2 decent crosses of the ball, out wide, and Lukaku will start to score.

03 Jan 2018 21:00:32
Good evening chaps,

I must say, a break has done me good and given me a fresh perspective - excuse the pun. This will (more or less) be my first post of the season and now we are around half way through I feel it is a good time to add my two pennies. Firstly on the squad, and then on the club as a whole.

Defence: For me this is a very promising defence but needs some tweaking. We need Bailly to be a main stay, he is the glue and the best defender we have. Lindelof for me will blossom in time, like Vidic did. I'm also glad to see Shaw back, although the strength and depth in the fullbacks is pitiful. Valencia and Shaw are good first choices, but Darmian and Blind are no replacements whilst Young should be a starting fullback for a club of our stature. Delighted to see the Ghoulam links, he is a top class left back who would add a real balance to that side. How long can we trust in Shaw's fitness?

Midfield: Lack of strength in depth again. Carrick looks to be finished at this level and Herrera's form has severely dipped off. Matic is the only guaranteed starter whilst Pogba needs the freedom of the park. Another midfielder is required, Savic is a popular choice, although I'm not professing to know much about him.

Attacking Midfielders: Mkhitaryan has been a huge dissappointment and his form has tailed off. Lingard is a breath of fresh air, he has totally changed my opinion of him. Martial and Rashford for me are number 9's, especially Martial. He is far better up front and is the most clinical striker we have. Mata remains a good squad member, but lacks dynamism. I'd love nothing more than to see Ozil and Lucas Moura come in. Pace in Moura and fantastic ability in Ozil.

Centre Forwards: Lukaku gets such a hard time, because he plays for us, he is top class for me.

Overall, I would argue this has been a good season so far (except the Bristol result) . I'd like to see Lukaku and Martial paired up top, maybe with a midfield diamond behind it of Matic, Pogba, Savic and Ozil with the fullbacks providing the width.

Thoughts chaps? And, good to be back.

03 Jan 2018 21:15:39
Good to have you back fresh. Fair assesment imo.

03 Jan 2018 21:37:57
Welcome back fresh 👍.

{Ed004's Note - Welcome back Fresh! Agree with everything you have said although for right back I'd like to see Mensah act as understudy to Valencia next season and a left back come in to compete with Shaw. Even if we integrate Perriera in to the side still think we are two short in midfield and my marquee signing would be either Ozil or Dybala to play right side but given a free role}

04 Jan 2018 09:09:19
Hey Fresh, where have you been? 🙄

I agree with a lot of your post but if we play a flat back 4 then we need top quality FBs and Matic will need to just sit to protect. Right now, we end to use Pogba to his maximum, if we need to structure a team around him then let’s get on with it.

04 Jan 2018 11:30:35
Ozil seems so attainable. I’m sure anything over £25m in this window would tempt Arsenal. They’re a well run club in terms of finances and that is a lot of money to turn down.

He would also be eligible for the CL.

03 Jan 2018 14:40:25
Well the crazy winter schedule is nearly over and it hasn't been a great one for us. Too many draws against teams we should be beating. To be honest when I look at our squad I expect us to be comfortable top four, possibly even challenge in most seasons. This year however City look like they might be doing something a little bit special. With that in mind though we shouldn't be as far off the pace as we are.

The loss away to Huddersfield was silly, however every year one or two of the promoted teams get a shock scalp against one of the top teams. So it happens.

The loss to Bristol City in the cup hurt, not so much because we got knocked out. It's hardly the first time we've been beaten by lower league opposition in the cups, but being comprehensively out fought and more worryingly out played was the hard thing to take.

The losses away at Stamford bridge to Chelsea and at home to City have dented our chances, although hardly surprising. In the last decade I think we have only one once at Stamford bridge. And has anyone seen this City side play this season, hardly shocking stuff that we came up short against them.

We have to accept at this moment in time they are the better team, they have a better more balanced side, they have more confidence, and they are playing the better football. Unless you accept that fact you will never be able to start what is needed to overcome them. Mourinho and our players need to look at what City are doing and rise to the challenge.

The losses haven't been that disruptive to our season to be honest, it is the draws that have killed us. Liverpool away is just about an acceptable result, however I was not happy with the way we went about getting that result. The draws away to Leicester and the home draws against Burnley and Southampton can be considered 6 points dropped. With the 3 dropped away to Huddersfield that is 9 points I think we can consider dropped this season. Which is too many at the halfway point for a team with title aspirations. I don't know is the defeat to City and has demoralised the players as it did really indicate the end of our title challenge this season as you can't see City dropping enough points for us to overtake them now. I appreciate we might need to spend more money to elevate the side to City's level but we have more than enough talent in the side to dispatch sides such as Huddersfield, Leicester, Burnley and Southampton.

It is the managers job to motivate those players after such a loss.
I was never in support of giving the managers job to Jose Mourinho, I have always respected what Mourinho has achieved but didn't feel he was the right fit for our club.
I will though always support the manager of our club until such a point that it becomes clear he will not succeed. I did it with Moyes and LvG and I have got behind Mourinho too. He proved his ability as a manager winning two trophies with us in his first season, even with a squad that looked far from a quality side.

I continue to back the manager as I still feel he can get this side playing better and performing better. However, I think we might be seeing the beginning of the end with Mourinho. It must be very hard for the players to lift themselves if our manager comes across in a constant state of misery. Mourinho looks pissed off when we don't get the result and angry or even worst nonplussed when we do get a result. Yet never happy. At the final whistle in the Europa league final he seemed more interested in holding three fingers up than actually being happy with the players and celebrating with them on a fantastic achievement.
When he first moved to England he was happy, cheeky and playful with the press, now he just scowls and is awkward for no real reason. He has openly flirted with PSG and is now picking fights with the board which he must know he won't win. Picking fights with club legends. Complaining he hasn't been given enough money seems churlish considering how much he has spent. Agreed City have spent more in the same period, but he has still outspent every team below us in the league.

To me he just seems like someone who is really unhappy with everything at the moment, maybe as some have suggested being away from his family for so long is affecting him, maybe the fact the Pep seems to have stolen his spotlight first in Spain now in England has rubbed him up the wrong way.

I think Mourinho needs a sabbatical, I thought 6 months off before taking our managers job would be enough. Now however, I'm starting to think he might need a year or two off then maybe try something different. Club football has moved on and winning isn't enough anymore, now you need to entertain as well. Can Mourinho change? I don't think so. With that in mind maybe international management is the best place for Jose now. The intensity he manages at wouldn't be so damaging when players spend less time with him. He has proven he is excellent at doing what is needed to win in knockout competitions.

However, he is our manager and I will continue to back him. I am becoming less confident he will be our manager at the start of next season though. I hope that this time Ed Woodward has learnt and he has a back up plan incase it all goes south between now and the end of the season. We can't afford to be left with no plan, no manager, no idea who to hire or which players to target.

We should be succession planning almost continually. That's why I think we need a director of football, someone who can take pressure off our managers and provide a continuity in style and transfer targets, someone who can monitor young up and coming managers and profile which ones could be a good fit for the ideas of Manchester United. Managers who play progressive offensive football, who trust in youth and who progress their players.

Until then we need to get behind our manager, our players and our club.

03 Jan 2018 15:46:32
Great Post Shappy. I posted about Jose on Christmas Day but it didn’t get a lot of comment, probably because it was Christmas Day.

He is no longer the same person and his constant spikiness and negativity must permeate through to the players. It’s a real shame as he was charming, witty, intelligent, and engaging years ago; nowadays he is just a constant grump.

I’m not convinced he wants to be here, it’s just a job for Jose and I think he already has an eye towards his next one.

03 Jan 2018 16:13:37
The thing is Tony is that there is likely to be several top jobs available this summer. On the club front you will have Bayern looking for a manager. Now I don't think they would consider Jose but they might take a manager from another top side that might consider Jose if he was available. Emery isn't in a strong position at PSG and could be out of the job come the summer unless he does exceptionally well. Zidane could also find his position less secure than he thought unless Real Madrid do something about this slump they find themselves in. Inter Milan could also make a move for Mourinho as he is still well liked by their top brass. AC Milan have owners who want to make an impression and could decide to move for a manager of Mourinho's experience.

Then there is every chance that a top international side could be in need of a new manager if things don't go well at the World cup for their country.

I feel that for whatever reason Mourinho isn't totally happy at our club, he seems to be trying to push the board into a back me or sack me situation. Considering the backing he has already received he might find himself on the wrong end of that battle.

03 Jan 2018 17:06:52
I think you are leaving this too much to chance or the whim of Mourinho. I think the club should take control of the situation by starting to look for a replacement and then ask Jose to leave at the end of the season.

He obviously doesn't want to be at Utd and like you say he's not a good fit, so why prolong the pain for him and us?

A DoF should have been appointed years ago.

03 Jan 2018 17:31:10
Woodward and the Glazers run the club, Mourinho wants more power to do the stuff for the team. I feel our owners are more concerned about the commercial cash, rather than the prestige of winning the league.

03 Jan 2018 18:20:18
JOse already has the top job in Europe. Manager of Man Utd!

03 Jan 2018 19:08:24
Shappy. Agree with all that apart from his demeanor. I am obviously not privy to anyone at the training ground, but in terms of his interviews I would imagine he has just learnt his lessons. Even when he was at Chelsea and I loved to hate him I thought he got a rough run of it.

In terms of going forward, I think trying to give him another season after this would do us well. In my opinion he has more often than not left behind a solid base/ top team. I would like to see the club, like pre mourinho, have a plan and this time stick to it. Start wooing (tapping up) the future pochettino's (sp) now.

Just my 2 penny's.

03 Jan 2018 19:21:08
Good posts Shappy.
Personslly I want to see jose force a back me or sack me approach.
If the board won't back him then his position becomes impossible.
He took over a really poor squad that failed miserably in the league for 3 years and those same players with his 4 additions failed miserably again In his first year. Allbeit winning 2 cups where consistency is not the foremost criteria. He added 3 more players this summer. But due to injury suspension and in lindelof and miki's case poor form he has had to rely on a lot of the same faces that have failed for the last 4 years. But somehow he has got them in 2nd place all season again allbeit with a poor ever changing but mainly defencive style. These same players in the main are doing Better than they have for 5 years.
If we want to see better style and entertainment a lot of these players need to be replaced. Or they will cintinue to fail under the next manager.
Back jose and he will produce a team we are all proud of.
If not sack him. Start again with a new manager that's the choice.

03 Jan 2018 21:44:27
So the rumour is that the owners are not happy with Jose’s comments about spending. Why is anyone surprised as it will highlight the imbalance between the ambition to be the best financially or best on the field.

For football reasons Jose should stay next season, gives the benefit of stability and if we buy the right top quality players he has proven he wins and wins big. If he doesn’t then review his position then.

The other reason is that if he is jettisoned at the end of the season, people will wonder if it is for football reasons (having not fully supported him with the top players) or for flagging of the owners ambition?

There is this fantasy idea that there are young up and coming managers with a profile and a good fit for United. (Give it to Giggs mob? ) Did people not learn from appointing managers, Moyes and LvG with all their experience couldn’t hack it. Poch keeps getting mentioned but what has he won? No doubt someone will say Dyche next. The next manager has to have the gravitas. Then it is about those who play progressive offensive football, trust in youth and progress players. Offensive football is built on a strong base, otherwise you get Arsenal and years of pretty football but win little of significance. Progress players, seems Jose gets no acknowledgement of progressing Jesse. We need to have a plan but naivety must not be part of it.

Give Jose the money and next season judge him.

{Ed004's Note - I honestly couldn't think of a better manager than Jose available that's why I want to see him continue on. There's still a lot of deadwood in this side. Although, I would like to see a few more youngsters get a chance such as Mensah, Tuanzebe, and Perriera next season}

03 Jan 2018 22:10:17
Ed004

Yes I agree, the board should ask him for his requirements and support him or sack him. I believe they should support him and see where we are next season. I get used to reading the anti Jose stuff to the point I have given up on live chat but I can see progression. Give Jose the players.

Mensah has a good chance, always believed he is a central midfield player, but has the attributes plus Tuanzebe similar although maybe he would benefit from a loan. Perriera, I am not sure he will be quite good enough for United but I sense he may want to stay in Spain.

{Ed004's Note - I think Perriera might want to play permantently in Spain as well but he would be like a new signing for us in the summer}

03 Jan 2018 22:42:39
Describes some posters as, 'the give it to Giggs MOB'. Gets upset about some comments on José's management of the club.

04 Jan 2018 01:06:01
Totally agree with you red. I think Jose is doing a grand job and that City are skewing everything with their freak season.

04 Jan 2018 02:22:40
I think Ancellotti would be the perfect fit for us right now. He's got the gravitas, personality and attacking football philosophy which is a good match for Utd.

He's also flexible with his approach to get the best out of the players he has available. He's not dogmatic about formations and tactics.

I just think he could handle the job and would bring some much needed positivity to Manchester United.

04 Jan 2018 11:34:21
Red Man, I still fully back Jose and think currently he is still probably the best man for the job.
I just feel that his timing isn’t right if his long term ambition is to remain at our club. Everyone knows the January transfer market tends to be very poor. You pay a premium for players mid season, they also often suffer with adapting to their new team and quite often new country.
Add to that very few top players are available and those that are are usually cup tied it all adds up to a poor time to buy players.

Very few January signings go on to become top players for their new club and even fewer do so immediately. The only really successful January signings we have made is Evra and Vidic, it took nearly 6 months for them to adapt meaning neither made much difference to us during the season they were signed and both were signed 12 years ago and we haven’t signed anyone in January since or really before them who came close to being as effective as they were.

Jose knows the January market is poor and considering that most players we could sign with be cup tied for the UCL and if we are honest the EPL is beyond us now then what difference would any signing we could sign make to our season? Probably none or very little at best. So why drive a wedge between himself and the board when there is little to be gained at this moment? Sure in the run up to the summer window it makes sense, but now? Not really.

What it does do though is send a message out to parties possibly looking for a new manager in the summer that Jose isn’t completely happy at United and that he might be open to a move. Considering who his agent is and how many influential people at top clubs Mr Mendes will likely be speaking to this month it makes sense to put it into their minds that Jose isn’t completely happy where he is. I expect some might even take the chance to ask Mr Mendes what Jose’s position is while discussing players this month.

I hope the owners continue to back Jose as they have done. We have spent 26m on Mkhitaryan, 30m on Bailly, 35m on Lindelof, 40m on Matic, 89m on Pogba and 75m rising to 90m on Lukaku. Plus commiting to sign Zlatan twice the second time while he had a serious injury. That is 295 - 310m. That is massive backing in just over 18 months at the club. I completely agree that the Glazers didn’t fund transfers properly during the Sir Alex’s final 5 years or so. But with Jose they have been more than fair with spending so I’m not sure Jose has too much to complain about.

As for looking for good, young, up and coming managers. I think it would be negligent to not keep an eye on these guys and see how they are doing. I am not one of the give it to Giggs brigade, in fact I argued against giving it to him on many occasions. I just don’t feel he has proven himself as a manager yet, we would be diving into the unknown.

My opinion is a club our size needs a director of football to take a lot of the burden off the manager. Sir Alex was a freak of nature in that he effectively did both roles and he could do both without letting either suffer, yet in his final years he delegated far more than he used to. Going forward very few people will be able to do both roles, so we need to share out the workload.

If there are lower off field demands on our manager then they can spend more time with the players, helping them progress and building a stronger bond with those players. It’s all well and good having an authoritarian manager who has control of everything, but who do you think the players will blame when something goes against them?

If we stick with the idea that our manager needs to have the “gravitas” and track record to do every job then we will be picking from a very limited pool. We will also be entirely at the mercy of that manager. Okay so Jose has the track record, but he also isn’t known for sticking around long. If we had a director of football then maybe Moyes or LvG’s reigns wouldn’t have been so bad.

But allowing managers complete free reign has created nearly all of the problems we have had since Sir Alex’s retirement. Who do we go for after Jose? There aren’t many other managers out there who can do it all. The solution should be that we can sign exciting young managers at the forefront of modern football, guys who have proven themselves at a certain level but need the chance to scale up what they are doing. Because top managers are already at top clubs and prising them away isn’t going to be possible. So what then?

04 Jan 2018 12:12:01
Good post, Shaps. I still maintain that the jobs Dyche and Howe are doing at their respective clubs, are on a par with or better than, an Arsenal or Utd winning a League or FA Cup.

03 Jan 2018 13:04:15
Danny rose injured again, wonder if that will stop us having a look at bringing him in? He'd had a few this season and I think he had some injuries last year. Surely we give Shaw to the end of the season now, unless the possibility of signing someone of the Calibre of Alex Sandro or David Alaba is a real one.

03 Jan 2018 13:31:37
I like rose as a player very much when fit but I'm not convinced he can stay fit and we have enough sick note players on the books.

High risk and there are other options. i'd rather wait until the summer to get the correct left back. As badly as we need several new players this us not a time for panic buying. Player recruitment has been nothing short of pathetic over the last 5 years so getting it right is more important than doing it quickly.

03 Jan 2018 13:41:12
Rose is a fantastic player when fit, but he is struggling to stay fit often enough.

I would let Shaw have a run at it until the summer, we still have Young and Blind who can fill in there if needed.

Then look at some of the other options in the summer if Shaw isn't showing enough promise there. My gut feeling is Shaw won't do enough to convince Mourinho. Other options could be Grimaldo (although he has his own injury concerns), Aaron Martin, Jose Gaya or even Jetro Willems who is having an excellent season over in Germany.

03 Jan 2018 13:48:51
Shappy I think Jose said that about Shaw a year ago. 'Let's see how he does'. He obviously feels he isn't good enough or has what the role requires. Otherwise we wouldn't be looking at other options.

03 Jan 2018 13:55:37
I really like Shaw and he is currently looking good. Poch got the best out of him, perhaps Jose needs to step back and consider how to do the same, Shaw is clearly a bit fragile but he has huge potential.

03 Jan 2018 14:46:22
Angel, in October Jose said Shaw still has a future.

"He has a future here, but the situation is not easy because he comes from injury, after injury, after injury. He needs [lots of] matches in a row to play, to make mistakes, to get conditioned, to get match fitness and at this moment I can't give him that, "

03 Jan 2018 14:50:25
Angelred, Shaw is a fantastic talent, and has all the ability to become the best LB in the world. Several managers have said he needs to work harder. The whispers coming out of Old Trafford is that he is working much harder. Maybe the penny has dropped.

For all the other options out there none are as good as Shaw could potentially be. So as Tony says we need to address how we can get the most out of him. He has looked better than all other options we currently have at LB in the last month or so.

Also I'm not convinced Mourinho will be here at start of next season. So I am quite happy to give Shaw until the end of the season as clearly currently he is our best LB, the chances of us getting someone better than him in January are limited so let's wait and see.

03 Jan 2018 16:03:58
For sure shappy, but maybe that penny has dropped far too late. Ed002 still maintains we want another LB. Could be a case of too little too late for Shaws United career.

FZZ, you really believe Jose here?

03 Jan 2018 16:16:20
Shaw has played every game since the start of December and is the only player to have played well in every game. So with 5 games in quick succession under his belt he hopefully can kick on from that.

04 Jan 2018 00:56:40
Some won't be happy until Shaw is sold .
Some can't wait until he proves them wrong.