Manchester United Banter Archive January 03 2020

03 Jan 2020 19:25:52
Ed001,
Greetings Ed. Good day.
Do you think that Man United board realised that sacking managers is not the solution, with wrong manager on-board ?

Thanks,
Pal

{Ed001's Note - yes, that is a very good way to sum it up. They need to sack this particular manager, but they are desperate not to do so. It is a real problem.}

03 Jan 2020 23:29:42
if we get beat by wolves and spanked by city i think most fans will turn.

03 Jan 2020 23:13:48
We lack a real leader is the whole club, one that makes strong decisions, gives clarity. Embarrassing situation.

03 Jan 2020 23:58:05
Thanks Ed001.
The supporters see lots of positives and negatives. Do you see any negative other than the negatives that are being daily discussed such as Not turning for a match against top 6, consistently., Failure to make make subs at the right time, players yet to pull more than 4/ 5 passes together, etc.,
What do think about Jesse Lingard as a player and his last year form? Do he still warrant a place ahead of Pierrera?

Sorry for too many questions mate.
Have a great day, Ed.

{Ed001's Note - I think Ole is just so weak it is embarrassing and I hate seeing a manager grim gormlessly at the best of times, but to do it when your team has just been beaten makes me fear for his mental health.

Lingard is not as bad as some United fans like to make it, but he is not good enough to be a starter. He is like a worse version of John O'Shea, a cover player for injuries and should only play when you are missing a few players. He clearly is missing something in the mentality department, as he lacks that drive and fire to win. Lingard works hard, but it is not all out for the cause, it lacks that focus of a winner. I would have to wonder about the way he has been trained over the years as his technique does not seem to have done anything but get worse. To me he is a symptom of the weak squad, he should have been upgraded on by now and been sold on, instead he is still a key part of the squad.

Pereira is another one who should be, at best, a fringe player. He has shown no improvement and no genuine quality to be starting. Even now with a stretched squad you have to question why he is in the team. Why not Garner? Much better player already and he could be gaining experience and growing into the player he should be.}

04 Jan 2020 00:14:31
Ooooo here's hoping! *rubs hands in anticipation* 🙄.

04 Jan 2020 06:36:23
Hi Ed001, hope you're good. Have you heard any more about the training sessions/ coaching? I remember you saying earlier in the season that the players were finding the sessions too relaxed etc. Are the players still behind the manager?

{Ed001's Note - I haven't actually heard since, I will ask, but I would think most of the players are still with him as there have been very few rumblings about disagreements. Only Pogba, but he is trying to force his way out, so that is a different thing.}

04 Jan 2020 09:05:42
No wonder some of our talented youngsters want out ed001.

{Ed001's Note - it doesn't bode well for them. It is difficult though to try and keep them happy when they know there are other teams that can offer them a regular first team place. If you are Garner, Chong or Gomes sat there watching Lingard or Pereira play at the moment, neither seem to be offering anything, and you see Matic lumbering around in midfield and you are not getting a game, do you see a future for yourself?}

04 Jan 2020 10:06:45
I wouldn't if I was in there boots. And I'd be asking to get out the door. Seems to me that's what some are doing.

Even Williams who has played in recent games must scratch his had looking at Shaw getting his games.

{Ed001's Note - I really don't understand why Ole can't see that Shaw is not working out. His performances are concerning if you ask me. Admittedly he is not being helped by having that hopeless lump of wood next to him in defence and Matic in midfield lacks the mobility these days to get across and cover. But Shaw himself is just not doing enough to deserve a place. He offers no threat going forward and is hopeless defensively. Williams looks a genuine threat going forward and is decent defensively. Work with Williams and just explain to Shaw what he needs to do to win his place back. If Shaw isn't willing to do what is needed, then it is time to get rid.}

04 Jan 2020 10:54:25
ED001.

Hopeless piece of Wood, by that do you mean Maguire.

For me Shaw lack of positional awareness is glaringly obvious. He also looks unfit and struggles to track back. William's has the right attitude and has played very well. The kid is still learning. Its quite concerning that he is leading by example on the pitche, where players like Lingard arent.

Maguire's lackb of mobility and pace has always been a concern to me. His technique isn't particularly great either.

Lindelof is abit hit and miss as well. Perhaps it's a lack. of the right coaching aswell?

{Ed001's Note - yes mate I did mean Maguire. Terrible buy, you have to wonder why the scouts did not see that when I could. They are being paid to know these things but still aren't spotting them - worryingly.

Shaw really does seem to be just genuinely dense. He reminds me of when Moreno was at Liverpool, without the effort and fitness. He just charges forward with no thought and then needs to get his breath back. Williams is already well ahead of him imo.

Maguire has no positional sense either, which would make his lack of mobility, pace and technique less of a problem. Trouble is you see him after you have conceded and he is always in the wrong place and looking around for someone else to blame. Just get yourself in the right place to start with!

Lindelöf was looking a player before, but he seems to be getting worse. That does suggest coaching is an issue, as it is difficult to point to a single player that is looking to have improved.}

04 Jan 2020 13:34:00
Cheers ED001.

Another thing aswell. Maguire has missed some sitters with his head this season aswell.

Imagine what he will be like when he is 30, 31 and has lost some more pace. Its embarrassing watching him struggle so easily.

{Ed001's Note - how did any scout think he was worth a world record fee? This is the problem when you limit them to looking for Brits. There is so little choice.}

04 Jan 2020 16:16:35
Thank you ed, there were plenty better options out there than Maguire yet the club were fixated on him and happy to get rinsed. Leicester must be laughing there backsides off at us.

{Ed001's Note - it was because he was British. }

04 Jan 2020 21:34:28
I still think lindelof is a far better CB and will be okay providing that we update our coach.

03 Jan 2020 18:30:15
Hi eds.
Can you please upload my post re Klopp relegating Mainz that I put up earlier.
think it would add to the debate, it wouldn't have broken any rules so can't see why it wasn't.

{Ed047's Note - I haven’t seen it Ross, it must have been deleted that’s if it’s not gone on one of the other pages.

Sorry I can’t help mate.

03 Jan 2020 19:46:52
Ross so what if he has? He’s won the league twice with Dortmund and won the champions league with Liverpool. He’s also a step away from leading Liverpool to their first league title in 30 years. He’s probably the best manager in the world. The only similarity that him and Ole have is they both got relegated with a club. The comparison stops there. Anyone that compares ole with Klopp or even fergie immediately loses credibility because it’s the most ridiculous comparison.

{Ed025's Note - i have to agree park..

03 Jan 2020 20:56:57
Am I reading this right? Klopp once got relegated? I've seen it all now.

You need to get your own ship working, before trying to pick holes in Klopp. He's come in and within 4 years (just as he promised), brought silverware to Liverpool. I do not think you or anyone should be allowed to critique that.

03 Jan 2020 22:30:15
Klopp managed Mainz for years in the German 2nd division. He got them promoted after a few years. He then got them into Europe, way beyond what they expected. He did get them relegated, stayed and couldn't get them promoted again and left.
I'm not Klopps biggest fan but that reads better than Ole taking over a struggling Cardiff, getting relegated, spending more than anyone in the division and getting sacked a few games into the season.

This habit people have of comparing managers because they have similar career trajectories. There is only one Sir Alex Ferguson. Just because a manger does well in a smaller league first does not make them Sir Alex.

Using Klopp as an example to prove Ole is a good choice is wrong. Using Pochettinos sacking at Spurs as a pedestal to big up Ole is wrong. Just because you were in a film with Robert De Niro doesn't make you Robert De Niro. Just because you worked closely with Gordon Ramsey does not make you him.

Ole is not being harshly judged. He is being judged because a lot of his results are awful, a lot of his decisions are awful. If/ when Ole gets sacked he will not be able to cry foul treatment. He's still in a job with a win percentage that seen Moyes sacked. He's still in a job with a lower points tally than Jose that seen him sacked.

Ole is being judged because he is Ole and he is failing!

04 Jan 2020 02:35:16
2nd taxi of the day for Ross😂😂.

04 Jan 2020 09:08:27
But ken, everyone's opinions are valid.

04 Jan 2020 14:50:35
Good morning Anthony which side of the bed did you get out this morning?
They are indeed, did i moan about him giving his opinion? i'm not the one dripping of hypocrisy.

03 Jan 2020 13:32:23
Hi Ed2 -
Keen to get your view on who is the worst run club. Given your critical views on Utd and Arsenal being run like amateurs, who are the most inept? Or are there others that are even more so?

{Ed002's Note - Both clubs are badly run - Arsenal's problems stem from (a) the structure of the management, and (b) spending money unwisely in the summer. Manchester United are completely out of touch with reality and are run like an amateur side as I have said. Deportivo Maldonado are likely worse run.}

03 Jan 2020 13:50:06
Didn't we have an agreement with deportivo maldonado years ago, where did those 5 clazz bralians that were coming ever go to.

03 Jan 2020 13:56:55
Ed002, that's simply untrue. You are a stark raving looney coming on here spouting off with your ill informed opinions.
Deportivo Maldonado are not worse run.
How dare you?
😚.

03 Jan 2020 15:19:07
Haha Ken imitation is the greatest form of compliment, thanks.

03 Jan 2020 18:15:28
Just googled Deportivo Maldonado Eds002 you never fail to crack me up😂.

03 Jan 2020 18:32:45
imagine being thirsty and you are quoted £5 for a bottle of water. Would you pay over the odds to quench your thirst or would you suffer so you can go to the supermarket and pay market price of £1?

Without me preparing, I'd have to pay the £5, had I planned well, I would have gone to the supermarket bought a bottle and carried it with me. United are so slow and it does not seem they do any form of planning and instead come up with this value in the market, right price guff. without planning, they have messed up and will need to pay over the odds.

03 Jan 2020 08:43:51
Can anyone provide any insight on what is happening with ............

{Ed002's Note - This is the Manchester United page.}

03 Jan 2020 09:59:12
Wolves this weekend, at molineux in the 3rd round of the Fa Cup. Don't think we could have gotten a much harder tie given our historical record against them and the fact they beat us there last year twice. Wolves are a well coached side, who are set up to exploit us tactically and also have quality individuals who can win them the game. How does everyone see this going?

03 Jan 2020 10:16:18
We always follow up a defeat with either a win or a draw.
It's going to be a stern test against Wolves.

03 Jan 2020 10:16:21
No idea. Will martial turn up? Will fred have a good or awful day. Will lindelof be at it? Will young play? Will shaw play? So much depends on the day. We can't rely on anyone we just have to be like the manager and hope it all goes well on the day. If it doesn't we can all be like the manager and smile and laugh it off and regurgitate the 'lads are working every so hard in training" line and move on to the next game and hope it all goes well there. If not rinse repeat and so on
Groundhog day.

03 Jan 2020 13:28:21
Can’t see anything other than a loss with the squad available due to injury and illness.

03 Jan 2020 07:07:28
The failed former Cardiff manager or Ole Gunnar Solsjaer as I like to call him did indeed oversee Cardiffs relegation from the Premier league however just for clarity, Solsjaer joined Cardiff on 2 Jan 2014, and managed Cardiff for 18 Premier league games, winning 3, drawing 3 and losing 12. Cardiff were 1 point and 1 place above the relation zone when Ole came in so yes he did bring them down but it's not like Cardiff were fighting for top 6 at the time, they were always getting relegated for me as a betting man.
So please when anyone mentions the failed Cardiff Manager please try to remember that he joined midway through the season, he joined a terrible team that were already on their way to relegation, fair enough though, Ole indeed could not stop them being relegated.
Lampard couldn't get Derby, playing in the championship, not the premier league to the playoffs, does that mean he's not capable of bringing Chelsea into the top 4 because he failed in a similar situation at derby.

{Ed047's Note - well lets all hail the successful Cardiff manager then

03 Jan 2020 08:53:13
TAXI FOR ROSS😂
Wake up tomorrow with another senseless argument.
Its what he is doing here that counts. He has been our worst manager since the late 70s.

03 Jan 2020 09:08:18
Some people on here will argue that black is really white because it gives them some kind of misguided idea that it makes them some kind of superior 'fan' if they don't criticise.
It doesn't. It just means that other people may have a different opinion.

Or that others don't have their heads in the sand.

03 Jan 2020 09:22:20
Well said Betty.

03 Jan 2020 09:22:27
I can’t work out if you’re praising or slating Solsjaer here Ross?
Very strange post that mate.

03 Jan 2020 09:35:31
So Ross let me get this striaght just to be sure what you are saying in ole's defence.
He took over a team mid way through the season that were not in the bottom 3.
But he got them relegated but it wasn't his fault?
Im not sure I'll give you a call if i ever need a defence lawyer😂😂.

03 Jan 2020 09:48:24
This "failed cardiff manager" title annoys me.

I had a bet with one of the fellow poster that Red Man will call out Ole as failed cardiff manager atleast 10 times.

1 down, 9 to go lol.

03 Jan 2020 09:51:12
What happened the following season in the championship Ross after he spend unprecedented amounts then for cardiff a championship club?
Tell us how he nearly got them back up? No you can't because he had them heading towards division 1 begore they had the good sense to fire him.

03 Jan 2020 10:02:34
I agree TRD.
I don't think its right to continually refer to anybody like that. Just my opinion of course.

03 Jan 2020 10:41:20
My point is simply that I think its thoroughly disrespectful to Ole Gunnar Solsjaer when fans of his club are referring to him as the failed Cardiff Manager. The reason I gave stats was to provide context and balance for when he is referred to as the manager who relegated Cardiff City just in case some people might have not been aware that he wouldn't have been in charge of Cardiff for a full 38 game season and may have formed an opinion based on that.
I don't think I'm any superior kind of fan because I support Ole, as I said to park yesterday we all are passionate as fans because we love the club, none of us are better or worse just i'm sick of all this change of managers stuff, we've done it a lot recently and it hasn't worked much. Do I think Ole is the second coming of Fergie, at the moment I don't and never have but who knows, stranger things have happened.
What I do believe is since Fergie left our club has never been the same, even when we won with Mourinho it wasn't the same, you knew it was going to come crashing down again soon.
We are not where we want to be at the minute, I'll be the first to admit but I believe that there are things I'm seeing like the development of youth, like the weeding out of overpaid stars who don't care about the club, like the targeting of lads who want to play for United and players with potential to bring us back.
Ole gets praised for being a tactical mastermind for beating most of the big 6 sides so far this season but then slated as inept tactically against smaller sides, he surely can't be both can he, that's why I would surmise that it's the player quality rather than the tactics.

03 Jan 2020 11:19:28
He wants to build a team around the biggest overpaid egomaniac in the squad ross. And the club are holding him to a contract against his will. He doesn't want to be here and had asked to leave.
That's some weeding out.
He is doing a very poor job overall. Notwithstanding the couple of areas where he had overseen some good change.
He is miles out of his depth.
Ive said it before it was like giving your local green grocer the ceo job of tesco plc.
He just doesn't have the credentials for the job. It was a risk it hasn't paid off. So no point making ut worse cut the head off the snake and move on.

03 Jan 2020 11:26:07
Ole’s reign at Cardiff is only discussed because he DID fail there. Without being offensive, this is Cardiff we are talking about. Not a major club in Europe. Of course his credentials will be scrutinised when he’s manager of the biggest club in the world and failing.

03 Jan 2020 11:30:12
Maybe we should refer to him as the successful interim manager?

Or the failing Man Utd Manager?

03 Jan 2020 11:38:47
😂😂😂 that made me spit out my tea utd road.
Post of the year so far.
Quality😂😂.

03 Jan 2020 13:42:18
Again just my opinion, which I'm not expecting ye to agree with. Thanks for the feedback. What I would say is that some of the people replying are the same people posting stuff going mad about how an 18 year old Brandon Williams isn't starting every game, can people really not see he is 18 years old and clearly needs more time to recover.
On the pogba thing, I'd surmise that Ole is just saying the right things maybe just like fergie did with Ronnie, I dunno, I may be right, you may be right in thinking Ole is trying to build a team around him but I'd be a bit more cynical of that.

03 Jan 2020 14:11:13
Ross we all have opinions mate that's why most of us are here.
I do understand its not all oles fault i think everybody does.
Williams can't start every game. Nobody can. He is developing.
I'm not concerned by his team selection at all because it doesn't matter who he picks or who is available as its hit n miss either way.

03 Jan 2020 04:25:23
Every poster on here is entitled to their opinion. The fact that the fan base is so split just shows how disoriented we are with the way our club is being run. What adds to the misery is the fact that our two biggest rivals, City and Liverpool are so far ahead. They’re also two clubs who have chopped and changed their managers until they have the right man, have a structure in place and a plan moving forward.

All the above adds to the anger and disappointment we are experiencing as loyal fans of this club.

I wanted to add that I was at the game on Wednesday and the so called top reds are far more toxic then fans who try to give balanced views and look at things at face value. They jump down peoples throats who try to criticise the manager, the tactics, even the board and blindly support the rubbish we have seen for a sustained period of time. They solely blame the players and nothing else. There is lots of examples around Europe where clubs have under performed until a good manager with the right idea has come in and changed things very quickly. This adds to the pressure that Ole is receiving because in comparison, he has done nothing to suggest we have an identity, a way of playing football.

We may not have a squad that’s title worthy or even top 4 worthy but we do have very talented players at our disposal. Players who have clearly been deprived of proper management and coaching in comparison to our rivals. Rashford and Martial should be much further ahead in their development. I would also argue that players like Lindelof, who was a sought after talent around Europe should be much further ahead in his development.

Fans, like myself come on here as it’s a platform which we can vent and write down our true feelings. The board do not really care what we want which is why, as many of you have alluded to, we do not have a proper structure, plan or coaching staff in place that is fit for our great club.

I fear deeply about the direction we are going in now. We’re not far off what Liverpool became after their period of dominance. What frustrates us the most, I believe, is the fact that we have money there to sort all of these issues out but it seems that the powers that be have other ideas in mind. We have wasted enormous amounts of money and have regressed. That is clear to see.

Whether we like it or not, we are stuck with Ole until he either magically becomes a pep or Klopp type manager over night. If not, he will take us further back and will be sacked as usual.

The latest loss has sparked more of an outrage as the loss was similar to ones we have had against much lesser teams. Devoid of ideas, tactics and players lacking confidence even though we have been on a decent run. There is outrage because in comparison to previous managers which we have sacked, he’s performing worse. A lot of our games against the top 6 clubs will now be away from home. I think we may now see the results against these clubs balance out. Of course as a fan I hope that I’m not right. I want nothing more than to be proved wrong.

03 Jan 2020 06:57:55
That’s a really good post Amz. I agree about the so called top reds. Criticise Solskjaer and you are called plastic or toxic. Some of the abuse they give the players is disgusting whilst absolving anything the manager does. You wonder what the agenda is tbh. Fanbase is more split than I can ever remember. It really isn’t nice at the moment.

03 Jan 2020 07:44:37
Klopp had a very rocky first 18 months at Liverpool. Had he taken over United he would have been sacked and called the failed Mainz manager by sections of the United fan base.

The fact is we aren't a loyal fan base. We turn on managers if the moment the team isn't winning.

There were even some fans who during the final years of Sir Alex said he needed to go and on occasion turned on him. One poster even blames him for our current owners.

So I can fully understand it when the Ed's label us toxic.

{Ed047's Note - is Klopp the same manager who smashed it with Dortmund up against the European power house of Bayern Munich or did he win some Norwegian League?

03 Jan 2020 08:56:22
How can you compare Ole to Klopp? As ed said, one beat Dortmund to the title twice and got to the CL final. It was always clear he was going to be a top manager. Ole’s credentials?

03 Jan 2020 08:58:37
The comparisons are embarrassing ed047.
Clutching at straws.
Senseless and ridiculas arguments that make are quite frankly becoming note and mite bizarre.
Toxic purple flip flop with their opinions all the time. Toxic is not having an opinions that disagree with the board.

{Ed047's Note - it’s ridiculous ken, OGS isn’t and never will be in the same league as Klopp.

If he were the manager of any other club you guys would literally be laughing your heads off and rejoicing he was still at the wheel.

Much like people were with Emery driving us nowhere fast.

03 Jan 2020 09:18:17
Ferguson does indeed deserve some of the blame for our current owners.

As soon as greed got the better of him regarding a racehorse and he decided to take on major shareholders he should have been reminded that his job was Manchester United manager and there was a conflict of interest .

03 Jan 2020 09:53:32
We must stick with Ole until we have a long term strategy in place.

Get a DoF and overhaul the recruitment team.
Else, it will be sack, rinse and repeat.

03 Jan 2020 09:17:31
Ed047 i took some time out a d read back over a couple of posters posts and the inconsistency and flip flopping is embarrassing. Essay after essay of complete inconsistency tweaking arguments with preposterous claims to fit the narrative of the day.
Absolute hogwash and all in the imagination. Most of the points are so far from reality its laughable.

Then we get posters who spent months even years trolling the previous manager who complain about redman being repetitive.
Its hilarious.
I love the double standards.

{Ed047's Note - you’re not wrong mate it’s getting ridiculous

03 Jan 2020 10:24:02
What dicey 18 months were these shappy? In his first season taking over in the middle of the season he guided them to a Europa final. The next season after 21 games he had them 3rd on the table level on points with 2nd placed Tottenham and 7 points behind leaders chelsea. That season after getting into top 4 after week 5, they were out out of top 4 only once in the entire season.

This misstating of klopp's record to make ole look good needs to stop.

03 Jan 2020 10:30:36
We must not!

03 Jan 2020 11:18:01
There is literally no comparison when it comes to Ole and Klopp.
Klopp has credentials and clearly had Liverpool playing decent enough football. They were a good team to watch the moment he joined.
How Ole enters the argument is quite baffling.
Klopp broke the dominance of Bayern spending nowhere near the amount they did and took Dortmund to a CL final, narrowly losing. This is after being relegated with Mainz and sticking to his philosophy.
Ole won a title in Norway, relegated Cardiff after wasting a lot of money on players he had connections with, went back to Norway, achieved nothing before coming to United. The team he left then went on to win the title.
Which manager deserves more time after 12-18 months?

I completely agree we are now a club that sacks, rinses and repeats. However, the calls for a DOF and a change in the recruitment department are falling on deaf ears. At this moment in time there is one thing that stands out and that is we have gone backwards under Ole.

03 Jan 2020 11:40:22
Correct amz that of course is fact. But but but but if but if but if if but if but.

03 Jan 2020 11:51:46
The double standards are ridiculous Ken. It’s as if you’re allowed to be repetitive because you’re Ole in, anything else is toxic and boring. Like I said earlier, I seem to remember The criticism of Jose was often very personal by some posters. He was character assassinated and there were personal attacks on him as a person. Yet people call Ole the ‘failed Cardiff manager’ and that’s outrageous? The vitriol Jose got was awful during the end of his reign that it became an agenda. Personally, I think the name calling of Ole is wrong and I don’t engage in it. But at least people should not have double standards.

03 Jan 2020 13:13:39
To be fair Park there is only a couple of posters like that.
I mean its very easy just to argue against points without giving an opinion.
You know the ones i mean the superior supporter the visionaries who is always right, changing the goalposts to suit their narrative. Its a little sad really.
They have the goal posts on wheels they shift them that often😂😂.

03 Jan 2020 13:48:38
Please divulge the examples of posts where posters here are personally attacking mourinho at your earliest convenience. I can only speak for myself but the only player or manager I have genuinely ever wanted out of the club is pogba and I will stand by that.

03 Jan 2020 15:57:53
Paranoia ross? Nobody talking about you.