Manchester United Banter Archive June 03 2012

03 Jun 2012 23:39:31
been a united fan since 94 and well the way i have seen the team come through most of the years is based from the wings mostly....
regarding the most signings done such as ronaldo,nani,valencia,young even tevez and rooney at times were used in the wings it seems SAFs game plan revolves around strong wings and a prolific striker able to pounce on the input from the wingers such ruud van nistelrooy berba and likes of chicharito
the midfield has been dominated by scholes and keane where scholes controls the tempo of the game with his passing to the wingers and strikers while keane was a box to box midfielder who has technically never been replaced in terms of ability and presence
yes fletcher and carrick have had their highs and lows but in my opinion we need players like modric/sneijder to be replacements for scholes as they can pass the ball very well and for a box to box midfielder and enforcer type player would most likely be daniel de rossi...
this is my opinion i might be wrong or have overlooked something.... ur input would be highly appreciated...

You may not know but De Rossi signed a new long-term contact at Roma so won't be leaving. Fair enough too as he loves the club. Personally think M'Vila, Martinez and even Witsel would be better options anyway.

Fred

Fully Agree with you Fred,I do feel we need to have a box to box inforcer,a player similar to Keane,who would push himself to the limit to win the ball and sniff out the danger and break down the opposition!and play ball too!we just don't have that!this is what frustrates me about putting useless players like Carrick who mite as well be my a granny with a walking stick when it comes to defending!mvila would be a good shout there!as for replacing scholes!i don't rate modric,I don't think he has done enough in his time at spurs and the premiership.hes nothing special.I would take Sneijder all day
long.hes a world class distributer of the ball,can score special goals and create great opportunities!he takes corners and is a free kick specialist!a magnificent reader of the game!hes a Dutch master!i watched him v northern Ireland the other night and it convinced me even more that we should get him!i look forward to watching him in the euros!and hoping we get him!

SuperRed {Ed004's Note - I wouldn't judge Sneijder on one game vs Northern Ireland, they were awful. He did play well against Bulgaria though and provided an outstanding assist for RVP's goals. Would love to see a midfield of Kagawa, Sneijder and M'Villa. All three are different and I think they would compliment each other.}

I think no name makes a good point , the game has changed its more about possession , teams play more and more down the middle ,wingers even tend to play on the opposite side to allow them to cut inside.
4.4.2 with 2 out and out wingers is looking dated
Jred

03 Jun 2012 22:50:15
Not an expert like some on here but here's what I think we need over the summer;

LB: Jetro Willems of PSV is the perfect choice. He has the ability and I think would undoubtedly be the successor to Patrice Evra. Leighton Baines is good but at 27 years of age I wouldn't pay a penny more than £10million for him. Emilio Izaguirre is another option but I don't think is ready to join United. Willems is the one for me.

CDM: The most obvious position that needs filled. Many names have been linked; Javi Martinez would be the ideal signing but it's highly unlikely he will come. Yann M'Villa is far more likely and would be a superb signing imo. He's solid, not afraid to make a challenge and is also good with the ball. Kevin Strootman would also be a terrific capture but he only joined PSV last season so i doubt they would sell. I also think Nuri Sahin would be worth serious consideration. Undoubted talent and is clearly out-of-favour at Madrid, a move to United could allow him to fully fulfill all the potential he has.

CM: I've always thought Luka Modric would be perfect for United and I think this year it might actually happen. He would bring some much needed creativity to our ranks. Alternatively Dembele has been linked and I've been impressed by him, is he ready to make the jump? I think he would be worth a gamble at £10million. I'd much prefer Fellaini or Witsel. Fellaini has been excellent for Everton and Witsel was wonderful at the weekend and would bring some steel in the middle of the park.

WINGER: All depends on Nani imo. If someone was to offer £25+m i'd bite their hand off. When he is on top form he is unplayable at times but he is far too inconsistent. Muniain was outstanding against us in the Europa League and has the look of a top talent. Nicolas Gaitan has been linked for months and would bring a different dynamic being naturally left-footed. Everyone also seems to be singing the praises of James Rodriguez and has high hopes for him, Ii'm not totally convinced but I'd take him over Gaitan. Another couple to consider are Ibrahim Afellay, Julian Draxler or Rasmus Elm.

ST: Lewandowski has been rumoured and he would be a good addition however I don't see SAF spending a large sum on a striker. Other area's are the priority and if Welbeck continues to improve in the manner which he has been progressing I don't think we will need another striker.

I think your more of an expert than most on the site.
good post agree with more or less everything
jred

Good post, should have left a name ;)

DodgyBanter

Sorry fella's, thought I had done. It's Rosco. ;) Love the banter lads, keep it coming!

Excellent post. Not too long either (Shappy, Moon) ;) but still covered all points. I don't think we'll need a striker as we look as though Kagawa will be playing in the hole where Rooney played, essentially taking one of the two forward spots so we'd have the three strikers plus kagawa and we all saw how little Berbatov played last season. Willems looks a great prospect but I really think (like most others) that Evra needs replacing now as that would immediately improve the team. Other than that I totally agree. Think modric gets too much stick on here - the lad is top drawer but would hope to only pay £30m tops for him. Hopefully it shall be a prosperous summer!

Fred

Good post, can't disagree with any of it really. Great shout with Julien Draxler by the way. 18 years old can play wide or centre midfield and already being included in the German squad. He has a big future ahead of him.

Rjmanutd

They certainly are the areas we need to address. Realistically, I can see us sorting out perhaps 3 of those 5 areas with a couple of youngsters coming in as well

Based on your post I'd go for:

Willems
Strootman/M'Villa
Kagawa
Clyne
Powell

Gav

03 Jun 2012 22:15:57
I would jus like thank the Glazers in there contribution in prices which now means lad I know had season tkt for last 16 yrs has had to give it up as can't afford it any more!Utd send letters of renewel with the great oh were freezing ur prices this year big thing!jokers! There's people on here I see havin players totalling upto 70/80m!wakey wakey! Utd mainley work on a budget of abou 50m as you got 45m going on interest on debt! They may sound a fair bit each year it aint work out the net spent since Glazers came not alot! 500m gone out of club thru debt! Ur benzemas,silvas etc that's where there cash went! Note the 2 same lines each transfer window to cover! Summer its no value in the market&jan its players we want all cup tied in europe! Madrid got Ozil&kheidra combined for 20m! David Villa other year 34m,Benzema 35m wasn't Silva abou 30m?we signed Berba 32m I know who I wud rather have but our money had gone! What you mean Fergie is no value in owners but we will after wait till ur book when ur finished for u to admit it!

Rft is that you? How could he afford it last season but not this season, the prizes have been frozen and are cheaper than lots of other clubs with little or no success.

GDS

Maybe he takes his kids with him? my son is now 16 and we have been dumped out of the family stand and have to wait till after 8th june to see where we can be reallocated to .even with prices frozen my cost for 2 season tickets will jump from £850 to over £1100.
johndenton

03 Jun 2012 21:19:48
Have to say, Roy Hodgson and the FA are a disgrace.

G.A.G.U.S

Usually England give us a decent laugh during competitions but this year is taking the biscuit.

Jono

Too right Jono.

G.A.G.U.S

Jono the best laugh is when England get hammered in the quarter finals and then they go back to the studio and pan the camera onto the devastated face of Ian Wright.

Rjmanutd

It is disgraceful, I know the FA will be making these decisions for Hodgson, but Hodgson is nothing but a gutless yes-man. Nice to know the FA have stuck by a racist pig while the victim's brother gets shafted. Lets be serious guys, we have all seen the video evidence and we know what Terry is.

Sydney!

I can't believe that Suarez took 2 or 3 months to be banned with little evidence. Yet Terry hasn't even stood trial yet 9 months after the incident. We all saw the video. We all know what he said. How Cole, Welbeck and Young etc. can play with that man is beyond me.

G.A.G.U.S

03 Jun 2012 20:27:53
Hi Guys
I've just got in from a long and hard days work and I was wondering if Roy Hodgson realises that he's been sacked as Liverpool manager as he seems to still be showing them an awful lot of loyalty.I'm really hoping Rooney or Welbeck don't get injured as I wouldn't put it past Hodgson to try and pick Suarez.

Bazza The Red

Suarez wouldn't be a bad shout if Hart gets injured! SHRIMP

Thank f*** Charlie Adam isn't English.

A

He was trying 2 get his LFC job back.

03 Jun 2012 18:37:18
With it being very early in the summer and the transfer window not even being open, it's clear to see that Chelsea are the ones making the most aggressive moves. Marin, Hazard, and Hulk are three top quality (maybe not Marin, but the other two for sure) signings.

I think that Kagawa is a top notch player. Like many on here say, if he were anything other than Japanese, he'd be worth at least twice as much as he is now. I'd rather have the Bundesliga player of the year over the Ligue 1 player of the year every day of the week. I think a very successful summer would be the addition of Kagawa, a holding midfielder, and a left back understudy / competition for Evra. I think that Aly Cissokho is a perfect replacement for the aging Evra. I'm pretty sure that he has a publicly known desire to play for United. The arrival of Modric would be a plus, as I rate him highly. I also rate Sneijder highly, he just had a rough season after playing so much football with little rest. I think that either play maker would be welcome, but certainly not a necessity.

Ins:
Kagawa 17 m
Strootman 18 m
Cissokho 6 m

-----------De Gea----------
-Rafa--Smalls-Vidic--Aly-
------Stroots-Carrick------
-Tony----Kagawa----Nani-
----------Rooney------------

This squad would allow us to rotate Scholes, Welbeck, Cleverley, Hernandez, Young, Jones, Evans, and Ando. Personally, i think that team could win some silverware.

Sparty On

Very much along the lines of what I'd like to see! (in a realistic world) Along with a couple youngsters, perhaps Clyne and Powell...then I think we'd look good

Of course in an ideal world I'd take Martinez over Strootman and bring in Modric as the play maker!

But your choices are realistic and would improve us to no end. Fingers crossed then!

Gav

As would I Gav, I think that Martinez is probably out of the question, but I would love to see Modric brought in around the 30 m mark. He's absolute class IMO, and at 26 we would have the best years out of him.

Sparty On

03 Jun 2012 18:19:43
From what I heard and read, and as some of you already know, the reason we haven't fully signed Shinji Kagawa yet is because he is having trouble acquiring a work permit.

The following criteria must be met for a work permit to be approved:

1. A player must have played for his country in at least 75% of its competitive "A" team matches (not including friendlies) he was available for selection, during the 2 years preceding the date of the application;

2. The player's country must be at or above 70th place in the official FIFA World Rankings when averaged over the 2 years preceding the date of the application; and

3. The application for a GBE must be made by a club in membership of the Premier League or Football League and the player will only play for clubs in membership of those leagues.

However, Sir Alex is going to make sure he gets the work permit by stating that, at 23 years old, Kagawa hasn't had the sufficient amount of time to get the 75% of competitive international apperances. He also says that Kagawa is an exceptional talent that will be able to make a significant contribution in footballing terms to the development of the United Kingdom game at the highest level.
Basically, Kagawa is as good as signed. The fee is £16.7 million and Borussia have agreed, with either their manager or chairman stating that Kagawa isn't in it for money, he has choosen for Manchester United for honour as he will be the first Japanese player to ever play for Manchester United. Borussia Dortmund aren't going to try and stop him joining United because he has his heart set on joining and it would be impossible to change his mind.
Can't wait to see him in the United jersey, he is exactly the player we want, someone who is signing for the simple fact that he wants to play for United.

Breeno

No it's because he is away on international duty and the deal will be completed in the coming days. There will not be any work permit issues my friend. He is an exceptional talent. How did you think Ryo Miyaichi got a work permit for Arsenal?

Sydney!

Ryo Miyaichi was loaned out to Feyenoord until he got a work permit and he was part of Arsenals academy, so it wasn't as hard for him, and Aresenal probably had to go through the process to get him a permit, it just wasn't as high profile as this.

Breeno

Ryo was not part of Arsenal's academy. Kagawa will not have any work permit issues. The hold up to finalise his deal will be because he is in Japan playing in some World Cup qualifiers. You cannot complete a deal without the player being there to agree personal terms and sign on the dotted line. He played today for Japan so I think the deal could be concluded in the next couple of days when he arrives back in Germany. I doubt the Jubilee will hold anything up as I doubt the Germans are too fussed with our monarchy.

Sydney!

Actually pal he was ruled as an exceptional talent, Kagawa will get a work permit don't worry

Big Mac

Sydney, you obviously know nothing, Kagawa needs to get a work permit before the deal can be finalised, otherwise he can't play for Manchester United. Get over it. He's as good as signed anyway, and isn't that all that matters?

Breeno

Of course he needs a work permit before he signs, my point is he will have no issues getting a work permit. The story is nonsense my friend, trust me.

Sydney!

03 Jun 2012 16:55:40
Modric- 32M
Tiote- 20M
Baines- 20M

' I won't pay'

Maybe SAF needs to realize that things changed. If we don't pay, we don't get simple as that.

Another season with likes of Paul Scholes(With all due respect), Giggs, Carrick, Cleverly(look like he likes to much the 'physios' than to play football, 'kidding'). Lets wait for the market to be officially open to see if there's value or not at this market or end up another season trophy less and say that the next season will be better.

One trophyless season in how many? We were so close to winning the league. Stop moaning.

GDS

GDS

It is the direction we are heading in that concerns me. It may only be one trophyless season but without proper reinforcement that can easily become two or three
Liverpool 1990

Red Man

Keep it up GDS earn your Glazer shilling. I AM KLOOT

Modric is worth that but Baines in no where near worth 20M!!!!

RedDevil7

GDS

Close isn't winning! Maybe you're a bit confused or do you think yourself as a perfect fan. Look around, there's no a simple argument to justify this season, a Club like United with only the Community Shield, is it enough for your ego!? Then, suit yourself.

Just put something in your mind, mist of the times Quality costs money and if we can't invest, as much as it hurts me, but the only way will be down! If we don't have money to buy good players, Chelsea and City will make this like La liga, competition of 2!

Maybe I'm being very negative, but this is what it is.

GDS no offensive mate but your delusional all you does say how good we are when we're clearly not.

Yeah we lost out on goal difference but in 6 games we lost it ourselves that's how poor we are.

There's is no value in the market cause it doesn't exist for class players.

If andy carroll went for 35 million

The players we want arnt going to be cheap

That's one thing united don't realise, or the fact is we don't have that kind of money that's why there's no value in the market

MUFC90

Mate, you were 30 seconds, 30 SECONDS, from the league title. Chill out! The transfer window isn't even open yet.

RFT, my post had nothing to do with the Glazers. I am frankly getting sick of you, absolutely pathetic.

GDS

I'm really not sure where this rubbish of Baines costing 20 million is coming from. He'd cost between 12-15 at most. Everton aren't the richest club and Baines would be easier to replace than someone like Fellaini, Cahill, Jagielka or Jelavic.

Tiote, well i doubt that we are linked with him, and Mike Ashley thinks cos he mugged the scousers fro Carroll he cna do it all clubs.

Modric well thats Spurs you know they are hard to deal with, but i think Moric himself will try to force a moe this summer and the price will come down.

We may have been only 30 secs from the title and won it the year before but we ve been playing rubbish for at least 2 years

To the noname who said the Prem will be like La Liga with just Chelsea and City at the top....tell me how Chelsea haven't dominated since Abramovich joined, some 10 years (guess) ago? Where did the finish last year? How many League titles have they won in the last 5 years? Not exactly dominant!

When Chelsea won the league we won it back from them in our usual way, through teamwork and shrewd business. We didn't go out and match Chelsea's £500m over a few seasons (or whatever it was)

It is clear we need to invest this summer, we probably have for the last 2 years (midfield especially). BUT we won't go out and match either City or Chelsea's spending because 1 - that's not our way and 2 - we don't have a sugardaddy; we are self sufficient and laboured with debt unfortunately

If we can get Kagawa and another couple decent signings we should be there to compete again next season IMO

Gav

Gds,the bloke who believes only his opinion counts,very blinkered this one,cant or wont see we are in need of investment and cant or wont admit that the money isnt there due to glazernomics,the worst kind of fan.
big red bob

Was the money there last summer Bob? Clown.

Sydney!

I listen to everybody's opinion bob, I will state my opinion as well, if you disagree the comment, I am pissed off with Rft because he brings everything back to the glazers but I love the banter on here so back off yea?

GDS

Mufc90,

All I ever say is how good we are? Show me one post where I said united were fantastic this season? I thought we were average at best in most games and no trophies is extremely disappointing, but we had a very young team with an extra years experience, and our captain was missing for the full season.

We are signing the bundesliga player of the year, a player who plays in the exact position we have needed a player for about 4 years. Just because we aren't paying 35 million (like for super Andy Carroll) doesn't mean be isn't going to be a fantastic signing.

I think we will sign 3 or 4 more players as well, we have to so that we can compete on all fronts next season.

I just don't understand people moaning because we had one season without a trophy like its never happened before. It has and the next season we have always won something big. I am sure this season will be no exception.

GDS

03 Jun 2012 16:27:34
Good to see Scmeichel coming back to work as an ambassador for the club,i hope we use him to get into the ribs of prospective signings in a similar way as Madrid & City use certain Frenchmen .

Raffa

03 Jun 2012 16:36:22
Mat Hummels has signed a new deal at Dortmund

03 Jun 2012 16:00:13
Who cares who we get as long as they are a controlling midfielder as Paul scholes won't stay and if we dont get kagawa or modric then I think we should make a move for Parker/Ozil

03 Jun 2012 15:51:27
i've just written to The FA to suggest they and the management team draw up a 30 or 35 man shortlist, and us, the English public, vote for the 23 man squad we would like to see go to the major tournaments.

Well how stupid is that?

What is the point of having a manager then?

MPez

They would manage to screw up a short list

Mike

Iv'e just written to the FA to apologise for your letter...

Whistler.

For tactics, subs, staring XI etc, I only suggested for the squad

Wasn't a letter, it was an email so u can scrap you're awful replt

Lets be honest there is a lot of players injured, left out due to some sort of personal issue with others in the camp or basically they have been snubbed. Our squad is that depleted there are Liverpool players getting in the squad. Scholes, Cahill, Carrick, Wilshere, Cleverley, Barry, Holt, Lampard, Smalling, Richards, Bent, Crouch, Walker, Johnson, Sturridge, Dawson & Ferdinand could all be there if the squad was picked on merit or they weren't injured now or for most of last season. We really are scraping the barrel with Kelly and Henderson, but sadly there aren't too many options.

Sydney!

They don't have email accounts at the FA, that would be too quick and efficient. I'd write a letter just to be sure young man. Do some pictures. The FA love pitures.

Whistler.

Richards should of gone

The FA are that slow they've only just found Don Revie's resignation letter.

03 Jun 2012 15:11:30
Gary Cahill gets injured so they bring in Martin Kelly?! According to Woy, Ferdinand not being in the squad 'wasn't for personal issues' Good lord, Explain yourself Mr Hodgson.

Hoppy

The man is a gutless excuse for a man. He should have been straight with everyone from the start.

Sydney!

There is 1 reason and 1 reason only that Rio isn't in the England squad...John Terry. Rio has had a better season than all the other English centre backs, and Micah Richards should be 1st choice right back without a doubt, I think this is Roys way of getting forgiveness from the Liverpool fans, as a proud Englishman its utterly embarrassing.

I'd rather have Rio rested thanks....

Whistler.

03 Jun 2012 15:00:45
I think people should be more fair with the Pogba situation. Let's put it this way, would you stick with your job, or move somewhere else to do the same job for twice as much pay? We are offering Pogba around 18k I believe, Juve are closer to 40k plus a signing on fee which I'm sure will be substantial. A footballers career isn't guaranteed, he could have a career ending injury so he will want to make as much money as possible, and who can blame him?

Most will say that he should show loyalty to the club, why? He wasn't born in England and when the weather is like this I bet Italy looks attractive!

Personally, I hope he stays, then we won't have to spend on the likes of Tiote to the same job. But in all likelihood he's gone, which is a shame, but I can understand his thoughts entirely.

RedDevil19

'19'

The move was down to bad advice by his agent who is renowned for doing this. Why can't it just be left at that? It's well reported in Italy that Pogba was offered circa £20k a week by Juventus, similar to what we apparently offered. The move has nothing to his salary or playing time. It is purely tainted arm twisting by his agent. Ed002 has made that clear on a number of occasions and this also goes with what Paddy Crerand said, the media has been saying and our manager has said.

Sydney!

03 Jun 2012 14:29:03
just for you G.A.G.U.S.

the papers are linking us with tiote, modric and baines so is we get them, which we wont IMO then we could have a line up like this:

----------degea----------
rafael--small--vidic--baines
--------tiote-modric-------
valencia---kagawa---young
-----------rooney---------

to be honest if we had that team we wouldn't need to buy players for a few seasons.
(shame it wont happen though)
JK92

That wud suposedly cost us £90mil (17 + 72) we could get better players for cheaper, instead of tiote cud get mvilla for 20mil, instead of modric for 32mil we cud get javi martinez, maybe gotze with that price, even madrid might consider sellin ozil for that price, while they r plenty of lb better than baines like alba , schmelzer,jetro willems,alvaro pereira etc.

There are better players than tiote and baines out there. In terms of cost, there are better options than modric out there too. I wouldn't be very happy with those 3 signings, so hopefully it won't happen.

Gar

401st team ;)

G.A.G.U.S

IMO Modric is worth the money but Baines and Tiote aren't.

03 Jun 2012 13:53:43
Is it just me or does anyone else thing Young is overated? {Ed004's Note - I have always stated I do not rate Young highly since his days at Villa...}

I am not sure who is overrating him. I think if someone like Baines is valued at £20m at 28, then Young at 26 is worth £30m.

Sydney!

Young is class watch him shine this year

Ross

I like him personally, he can whip a cross in, is pacey, likes to run at people... he does fit the fluid style United are aiming for in the fact he can play either wing or upfront. A little one footed perhaps but still beats a player more than most. I think he was a decent enough signing. Not an outright amazing one, but decent enough. Starting to perform more consistently at international level too, and at the moment looks England's biggest attacking threat going into the Euros IMO.

APC

Ashley Young is underrated if anything

WizardOzmand

I wouldn't say he is under-rated. He certainly offers more behind the striker than he does on the wing. He must be a dream to mark for a RB, he always cuts back on to his right. I suppose Robben gets away with the one trick as well though.

Gar

A little predictable, but a decent player.

G.A.G.U.S

If that comment is on last nights game you have to remember CF is not his favoured position. He much prefer playing out wide.

Ste-Utd

He is a good player but don't see him going on to be a great player TBH

To get to that next stage he would need to find that little bit of magic to get past a player, add that to his pace, linkup play and finishing and then he would be top quality

Gav

03 Jun 2012 13:40:33
any rough idea on how much van der wiel would cost to buy him ?
pg14

03 Jun 2012 12:47:10
Love him or hate him you have to admit Fellaini is a hand full. To be honest I wasn't a fan but this guy is everywhere on the pitch. Winning defensive headers, midfield tackles and popping up in the box. Not the most classy player but very effective as utd and England found out. Also on England can't believe Richards, A Johnson and Sturridge are not going to Euros. Yet Downing and Henderson are! Roy hasn't got a clue as proved with Liverpool.

Boyley

I like Fellaini but do worry about his lack of pace, he seems pretty slow in midfield. I think the fact that Dembele is being looked at by United and Chelsea says that Everton are not willing to do business regarding Fellaini.

Sydney!

03 Jun 2012 12:24:34
Invisible STuey

He made 3.14 tackles per match. I think he is what we are looking for in out midfield.

______De Gea
Rafael_Evans_Vidic_LB
_Dembele_Cleverley
Nani_Kagawa_Welbeck
______Rooney

I think that set up would suit us perfectly depending on the left back.

Percy

Chelsea are favourites if they want to take up the option to sign him. With his agent saying he can replace Lampard I think that tells you where he wants to be. He will not have to uproot either will he?

Sydney!

What are you on about,dembele plays as a second striker.
big red bob

Chelsea are really us over this Summer. big red bob, you're wrong.

Percy

Percy, I warned this would happen before they won the UCL, some United fans were still rooting for them to win though.

Sydney!

I was one of those people. I'm regretting it now.

Percy

BigRedBob

You getting confused with Dempsey?

DodgyBanter

Glazers may know how to run business but to far to know about football. We gonna start underachieving if we keep dreaming about Dembele's and stuffs.

03 Jun 2012 11:58:14
According to a journalist Utd have been asked 32m for Modric, 20m Tiote and 20m Baines
SAF said he wont pay that (More no value?)

Pardoe

Thank god for that if true, Baines/Tiote £20m is utterly ridiculous, both decent players but I wouldnt think they are worth more than haf that fee. Modric over priced to really but understandably and he is a genuine talent unlike the other two
Invisible STuey

When you look at other transfers between english clubs newcastle and everton prob think they can get somewhere near that price, these days any player in the middle of his contract coming of a good season is going to cost a bit
jred

All hail the English Media and their "sources".

REDFAITH

It seems (although not fact) that United are waiting for some wiggle room in terms of Modric. I suspect if Modric starts saying via the media that he wants to quit Spurs over the next couple of weeks, then SAF has something to do with it ;)

United will need Modric to make it hard for Spurs to negotiate a higher fee by making it clear he doesn't want to be there. This is not really his character so may not happen, but I think we would sign him tomorrow if a deal could be struck on around £25m.

Lets wait and see lads. This is a transfer that would likely go to the wire.

Sydney!

03 Jun 2012 10:11:53
would just like to say that after watching the performance of holland against ireland really think we should consider sneijder again absolute class from midfield and a great goal well worth a pop at 25m,


UNITEDFORLIFE75

Holland beat Northern Ireland.

Ryan

Sneider could be moving to City,
BLUE MOON.

I am not so sure Blue Moon. I think it's no more than Moratti trying to play City off against United to drive up his fee. City will sign a defensive midfielder, centre-back, striker and a left winger. I do not think Sneijder is needed, let alone wanted.

Sydney!

03 Jun 2012 09:54:30
Hi Ed, what do you think of Ibrahim Afellay (FCB) he is not the first name on time sheet @ FCB, n no doubt he is a talent, last night he was terrific.
Will United consider ha move form him?

Aly {Ed004's Note - I don't think you can judge him against a very Northern Ireland side last night. I think he is a decent player but there is a reason he doesn't get much game time at Barcelona}

Yes Ed there is a reson and that reason is he has to try and get past the likes of sanchez,messi,iniesta, pedro,villa,cuenca,tello etc {Ed004's Note - Yeah I know and I will not argue with that reason. But whats to say he will get ahead of Nani, Valencia and Young? He isn't world class and we shouldn't be trying to get squad players off the teams we are trying to compete against imo}

03 Jun 2012 08:00:51
I see in todays Daily Mail that sources say SAF will not spend such ridiculous fees on Modric Tiote and Baines. This is the same SAF who priced Ronaldo at £80m! Double standards.

This is also te same SAF who expects us just to renew our tickets, £900 plus automatic cup tickets is a ridiculous amount in a recession. Double standards.

What has changed, when down the years we broke records bought players like Rooney, Keane and Rio, now we scrape around in bargain alley, they tell people to renew season tickets before declaring there is no value in the market. I see the same happening this year if the Mails story is correct. We renew now to find our main signing could be Schoes as there is no value.

Well for the first time I am starting to feel there is no value in the season ticket. How would our Glazer owners like to hear that when the only message we hear is United can't afford any top players.i wouldn't say Modric, Tiote are even the top level players, very good yes but more functional than brilliant.

Am i paying £900 to see the best players, no, but i am ensuring a good income stream for the Glazers. I am one frustrated season ticket holder that is not happy with the double standards of united the united of Malcolm Glazer

Red Man

Double Standards? One of the best players in the last 20 years who scores virtually a goal a game from playing out wide in comparison to what you have stated yourself as functional players being quoted t £20m, what would you rather have at the club £80m or Modric,Tiote ad Baines and £20m it doent even require a second thought does it.
I would agree with you that we need a couple of top quality signings to improve the team and excte the fans. Howevwe look at when we signed the likes of Rooney/Keane/Rio the only teams around competing financially were Blackburn and Leeds and they were small fry compared to the wages and fees City and Chelsea are prepared t pay.
I is difficult for us to compete with thatfinancially, irrespective of the Glazers. I too am tied of hearing "no value in the market" but n the case o Baines and Tiote I would have to say that is certainyl true.
Invisible STuey

That's a pretty naff post Red Man, a) You are taking this from the Daily Mail and assuming it's fact, b) Real Madrid offered £80m for Ronaldo, not SAF, c) If you want to moan about season tickets then you do not have a leg to stand on. £931 for the BEST seats at OT is very very good value. Lets not forget that Arsenal's CHEAPEST ticket is £930. Newcastle, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, QPR, Liverpool etc all have pricier season tickets and do Newcastle, QPR, Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal or even Chelsea have as much success as us to warrant their prices?

You say you are a man who works in finance, yet you think United are in the wrong by not paying Everton TWENTY MILLION POUNDS for Leighton Baines. Who in their right mind would pay that for him? You need to look at this from a neutral perspective, not let your hatred for the Glazers cloud your true opinion.

Sydney!

@Red Man

Firstly, The Daily Mail's track record on getting things right is like a one in million. Its just scaremongering by the media and trying to get fans to panic and pick up the paper to read.

Secondly, IF it is true, will you spend 20mil each on Baines and Tiote?

Modric, possibly at 32mil maybe worth it, although you yourself were saying it would be better spent elsewhere.

I don't see any truth in the report. Also, when you look at costs of other forms of entertainment, price of tickets at some other clubs, the season ticket at United is well worth the value imo.

REDFAITH

Syd to the rescue for the Glazers again.

What you don't mention in your justification for the price hike is that we have a far bigger stadium than all these other clubs so the Glazers make far more money from their slightly lower season tickets than any of the clubs you mentioned. So the Glazers could afford to reduce season ticket prices or offer really low youth prices like City do. But they don't they chose to make as much profit as they think they can and then wheel out Fergie as a marketing tool to convince people to pay up.

Now because they run the club like a business and treat supporters like consumers, then their consumers should be demanding a better product.

Danny Pughnited

Ah Danny, another fan who lets his obsession with the Glazers affect his impartial opinions. Bit of a silly comment regarding City isn't it? You do realise that City are trying to 'adopt' new fans to the club as they are a small club trying to be 'us'. They are also being bankrolled by a sheikh who's personal fortune is over £20Bn and his family/associates £880Bn. They can afford to fill the ground with kids.

As for your "demanding a better product" comment, perhaps you could tell me who has been the most successful club in the EPL since the Glazers took over? If we were Arsenal you may have a point, but with our success over the years you do not have a leg to stand on. £931 for the best seats at OT is a steal. No United fan wants the Glazers at our club, but I am not going to blame the Glazers for every little thing. The Manager will decide if a player's price-tag is fair or not.

Sydney!

Do the people that disagree with red man actually have a season ticket

I want to see players better than Tiote and Modric but the message we hear is similar to previous summers and having heard no value before I certainly fear hearing it again.

Sydney, I have to laugh at you telling me what good value our tickets are from the comfort of your armchair. Let me know when you buy one

As for Ronaldo , united set the price and that was well beyond any other previous deal so we were happy to receive the big fee but don't want to part with big fees, double standards.

No I don't think Baines is worth £20m but it appears very obvious that we are going to struggle to attract the type of players we need to compete and that is no longer acceptable. We shall really know on 1st September but we sat watching a debacle every window in recent years and the £92m that reduced the debt we were disgustingly saddled with would have likely given us several top players rather than improved the Glazer long term profits

Red Man

Seeing as tho red man pays £900 for a season ticket i would say his entitled to his own opinion on this, i would also think he has a right to moan about season tickets if he wants
jred

Beat me to it,people who dont have a season ticket shouldnt have an opinion on utd,s pricing it doesnt affect them.likewise i think anybody who supports the glazers shouldnt be allowed to be a utd fan.
johndenton

Red Man, you live in Manchester and can be at a game within minutes and back home minutes afterwards. I used to have the same luxury, but now I have three young kids making it hard for me to leave them on a regular basis for a couple of days at a time while I wonder off 400 miles up north. So our circumstances are very different.

One thing I will say is if I still lived in Salford I would have a season ticket whether it be £900 or in Arsenal's case £1900. I understand your worry/frustration regarding signings, but tickets at United are very fair priced and did you know that the ticket prices were due to soar under the PLC before they sold to the Glazers? That's right, they were due to go up 'a lot' anyway, this could of course be why the Glazers bought the club, but nevertheless they were going to rise rapidly anyway.

Sydney!

John, so what about people who have previously paid for tickets? How about someone who went to OT every week for 12 years aged 5/6 to 18? I agree with your last point.

£500-£900 for a Manchester United season ticket is fair whether you like the Glazers or not.

Sydney!

If you dont like it dont buy a season ticket. Simple.

Sydney

You are missing the point

It is what the Glazers are doing with the money that matters. I am lucky to be able to save up enough to pay for the ticket and forego a lot for it but to watch Scholes being brought out of retirement because we haven't spent in the market is beyond a joke. The money was spent repaying £92m of bond debt to help the Glazer finances. £92m which would have bought us several top players. We should be buying Martinez and similar level players yet we are just servicing debt disgustingly dropped on us. We are just expected to pay up for season tickets whilst being told we must accept austerity measures. The difference being that united didn't spend the money in the first place to get us in this mess, yet it is the club and supporters that carry the responsibility to pay whilst the Americans sit watching the asset value rise and waiting for the moment when they can realise it.

The Glazers seem to think we will just turn up and pay and they don't have to buy top talent. Then sometimes sitting reading people on here posting we need what are inferior players likely helps perpetuate the Glazers impression they can get away with it.

I don't live in Manchester any more, I travel for hours to and from each game so your excuse doesn't hold much water with me.

Red Man

People do know that nobody is forcing them to buy a season ticket?

I have bought mine as I do every season and will now sit back and see who we buy over the summer. From what i can gather we already have the best player from the Bundesliga on his way, a couple more big signings and we could be set for a successful season ahead.

I do not support United for the success I support them for the love of the club. When people complain about how bad we are no wonder fans from other clubs hate us. Imagine being an Arsenal fan, all the promise in the world, losing great players and winning no trophies, but I am sure they are still buying their season tickets too!

I do not think any United fan likes the Glazers, but you cannot blame them for every little thing that happens, its a little pathetic.

GDS

I think people need to actually read what Red Man is saying. Ticket prices have risen astronomically in the last few decades. When the PL started you could get a season ticket for under £300, and this made going to see football affordable to most people. Now it has come to the stage when watching regular football is beyond the means of a lot of people, me included. And this is aggravated by the fact that a growing number of season ticket holders are doing so solely for the purpose of selling their tickets for vastly inflated prices.

The Glazers are not to blame for all of this. But they are to blame for charging mass amounts of money for tickets, making the largest profits in the history of football, and then acting as if they don't have enough money to buy top class players. The truth is that they don't buy top class players because they chose to pay off their debt. Then they construct the fiction that it isn't Glazer debt, it's United debt and it's in the club's interest to pay the debt off. Of course once the debt is paid off it will benefit the Glazers far more than the club as they can either sell it far a huge sum or they can milk us for dividends.

The Glazers continue to charge excessive sums to supporters in order to watch football. They do this because they know that supporters will continue to support the team no matter what. Yet they refuse to back money ordinary fans are paying with adequate spending. If we are the most profitable club in the world we should be at least the 5 highest spending club in the world (behind Chelsea, City, Barca and Real). As it stand we're flagging behind Liverpool in terms of spending. This shows massive contempt by the owners to supporters, it's saying we have no incentive to reinvest your money in the club because you'll pay up no matter what.

Danny Pughnited

Red Man, have you ever thought that the top players we were interested in were not available for sale or they wanted to move elsewhere? Then when the deals/moves/interest fell through for whatever reason, instead of leaving the cash in the cash reserves collecting dust at a 1% yield, they bought back some bonds reducing the interest payments?

Sydney!

Of course our spends are vastly obscured by the Ronaldo sale. We are also not like Chelsea where if we miss out on plan A, B & C we do not go for a Meireles. When we go for a couple players and the deals fall through for whatever reason we never panic buy a load of rubbish. Last summer we went for Nasri, Sneijder and made a phone call to Dortmund for Goetze, when that all went pear-shaped we put our trust in Cleverley and Anderson. Unfortunately they got injured, Fletcher got injured so we had to bring Scholes out of retirement. It is a concern that we are missing out on targets, but we cannot help it if a player wants Spain over Manchester or wants £175k a week of £120k a week. It's just unfortunate that medium sized clubs have now caught up with us in terms of financial power and they have better climates to offer the players. Or Chelsea can offer London, or City can offer ridiculous amounts of cash. United are trying, but it is difficult to wrap up deals nowadays with so many rich owners around nowadays and Manchester United no longer being the club that every kid wants to play for.

Sydney!

Danny

Exactly the point

Sydney, incredible Manchester United the biggest brand in world football one of the most attractive clubs to play for with one of the most famous of all managers, have not been able to attract any of the top players in the last few years, I wonder why that would be? Money and the policy of our owners on wages and agents, otherwise David Gill would have been sacked by now. You know this but then you peddle the other excuses.
On the finance side you are condoning a plan B that instead of looking at alternatives to the players we desperately needed to give us more strength on the pitch you excuse a transaction to improve the value of the Glazer asset. What impact on the playing staff will reducing interest payments have if our owners only want to improve profit?

I will probably renew my ticket because it would hurt too much not to, however, the Glazers are on trial, we trusted they would buy in previous windows but there was no value. So this morni when I read that story it sounded like the start of the no value excuse all over again. We shall see on 1st Sept but some still need to wake up to what these owners are doing.

Red Man

Syd
I have you ever thought that the plan was always to use the money to pay off debt and the rest is pr to keep the fans happy or is your opinion the only one that can ever be right
Jred

Seeing as you dont like the glazers you do a great job defending them

The issue i have is that united do have the money to compete at the top end of the market we choose not to.
our wage bill is 46% of income the lowest in the EPL , never mind climate etc it has been proved that money talks and if united wanted to we could pay a lot more and still make a good profi,t a 10% increase would make a massive difference.
This will never happen as the club are determined to keep the wage bill under 50% to make us a better prospect on the stock market.
teams like ac inter madrid barce etc operate at about 85% and nearly all profit is put back into the club our problem is that to much money is taking out off the club.
maybe we are run to much like a business and not enough like a football club.
With the money we make we should be able to do a lot better in transfer market than we have been i have no doubt that the 92 mill spent on the bonds has been to the detriment of the team.
there is always and excuses as to why we miss on this player or that , but the fact of the matter is a team the size of united has repetitively missed out on its top transfer targets for a number of years.
jred

Jred, if that was the case then why did SAF deny trying to buy Sneijder? Or confirm Nasri turned us down for a bigger offer? Why was there NO comment on Hazard during the whole saga and the info was only outed by Hazard and Harry Redknapp? Or why was it only through Ed002 that we know United contacted Dortmund about Goetze? If this was 'token bids' and 'PR' stunts then why hasn't the club done more to pretend we were trying to buy these players?

As for my opinion, my opinion is as good as anyone else's on this page whether it differs from yours is irrelevant.

Sydney!

"The issue i have is that united do have the money to compete at the top end of the market we choose not to."

Evidence of this please?

Sydney!

"but the fact of the matter is a team the size of united has repetitively missed out on its top transfer targets for a number of years. "

Do you suggest we kidnap them if they choose Spain over England or London over Manchester? Or do you suggest we abolish our great traditions and do away with our wage structure and pay inflated wages like City, Anzhi, Chelsea and PSG and watch our club go further into debt and out of business?

Sydney!

Syd
" Why was there NO comment on Hazard during the whole saga and the info was only outed by Hazard"
i think you answered your own question there

"As for my opinion, my opinion is as good as anyone else's on this page whether it differs from yours is irrelevant."
i completely agree with this i think you should remember this before you dismiss some one else's opinion based on facts you have gained from a newspaper.

"The issue i have is that united do have the money to compete at the top end of the market we choose not to."

Evidence of this please?
You only have to look at our accounts to see there is scope to pay more in wages and transfers and still be profitable, we choose to keep the wage bill under 50% for business purposes Gill gave a lecture on it at a couple of university's you may be able to find it on line ,also a green done a good article on it.

Do you suggest we kidnap them if they choose Spain over England or London over Manchester? Or do you suggest we abolish our great traditions and do away with our wage structure and pay inflated wages like City, Anzhi, Chelsea and PSG and watch our club go further into debt and out of business?
no syd of course not and some times a player just wants to go some where else but we have broke our wage structure a number of times over the years its called inflation we may need to do it again as i have explained we can afford it.
would you rather money was spent on player wages/transfers or used to service the glazer debt?
jred

"

Nice side step on the first point jred, I knew you wouldn't have a comeback for that one.

I do not dismiss anyone's opinions, I listen to theirs and then give my own opinions on the same subject. It's called a discussion jred.

Exactly zero evidence jred, our wage bill has always been kept below 50% long before the Glazers were here. Even this doesn't prove anything, staying below 50% would have been an issue even if we give Hazard £200k and Sneijder £200k a week each. It has nothing to do with keeping the wages below 50%, it's the principal, we pay what we deem fair and will not pay silly inflated salaries just to compete with sheikhs and oligarchs.

I would rather the money was spent on players, but like I keep saying, what if they are not available or do not want to move to Manchester? What do YOU suggest the club should do?

Sydney!

Sorry correction,

"staying below 50% wouldn't have been an issue"

Sydney!

Syd
i read your post wrong on the first point my bad.
there was no need for united to comment on hazard or sneijder the papers and the players had done the job for us .
united never made a comment on them but is there a man united fan in england that doesnt know we were interested, madrid and that have been doing this for years.
how is there zero evidence, Gill himself has said that united will not pay what they feel is over the top in wages and that the club must be profitable they CHOSE not to pay sneijder.
you have completly missed the point united choose not to pay top end wages but could afford to,munich make less but pays more in wages than us and are still very profitable.
yet again you bring the plc into when i haven't mentioned them in my OP . United could of payed more in wages before the glazers as well it was interesting to note that fergy fully backed kean when he broke the wage structure at united.
the problem is your that quick to defend the glazers your defending them when im not really talking about them.

the thing is syd you dismiss peoples opinions all the time and then promote your own opinion as fact. for example have you even seen the lectures Gill gave , he backed up a lot of what i have said but you have dismissed this and decided it has nothing to do with 50% but is principle (which by the way also is an issue)

if you read my OP it says in short that united could if they wanted to pay very high wages and still be profitable and that maybe we are run to much like a business and not enough like a football club. Have a look at how much other clubs reinvest there profit and turnover in to the club compared to united.
jred

"have you ever thought that the plan was always to use the money to pay off debt and the rest is pr to keep the fans happy"

But the manager DENIED interest in Sneijder, why would he do that if the club is trying to trick fans into thinking the club were interested in signing him? Denying it defeats the purpose my friend.

"The issue i have is that united do have the money to compete at the top end of the market we choose not to."

Where is the evidence that we choose not to compete? We have just competed for Hazard have we not? Personal terms agreed according to his agent and himself. Not giving into Sneijder's ridiculous demands isn't evidence jred, both Chelsea and City never gave into his demands either, are City and Chelsea not competing at the top end of the market? Chelsea and Real Madrid didn't give into Aguero's ridiculous wage demands, are they not competing at the top end of the market? Like I said jred there is ZERO evidence to suggest we are not competing at the top end of the market, just RFT and Red Man's theories.

Manchester United are a business so you need to get that into your head jred. We are a business just like 99.999% of every other clubs that are not bankrolled by sugar daddies. You also need to understand that by me disagreeing with all of the anti-Glazer propaganda on this page does not make me a supporter of them. I just find it very immature when they are blamed for everything on this page. Yes they are bad owners for saddling us with their debt, and I hate them as much as the next bloke, but they are not constricting our spends as much as RFT and Red Man would like to think they are. Every self sufficient club which is all but Chelsea, City, Malaga, Anzhi & PSG will look to cost cutting ventures. All self sufficient clubs work on reducing outgoings and improving incoming cash it's how things work.

Sydney!

Syd
So you disagree that united could afford to pay higher wages and still be profitable which is the point I'm making
Yes we are a business but like I have said maybe we are more concerned with paying the debt / making a profit than investing in the team,
Have you any actual fact about sneijdrr etc other than what u have read in a paper our heard on a rumour site.
Ive looked into this a lot our wage ratio to profit our investment to turnover is poor when compared to suggar daddy clubs , well run clubs and badly run clubs.
In short there is massive room for improvement . Why can you not get your head round that. But as per usually you have dismissed this and decided that only your point of view could possibly be right.
I have answered your question now how about you answer mine.
What's our net spend over the last 4 years?
What's the biggest transfer we have done over the last 4 years ?
How much have we spent servicing the debt over the last 4 years?
Does the balance between investment in the team and money spent on the team seem right?
Jred

"The issue i have is that united do have the money to compete at the top end of the market we choose not to."

one other thing apart from what you read in the paper or hear on a banter site where's the evidence we are competing at the top end of the market, how do you prove that statement wrong.
our accounts show we have money thats a fact.
over say the last 3 years we haven't signed one so called big name thats a fact.
jred

Syd my bad should be
"does the balance between investment in the team and money spent on DEBT seem right?

1 maybe 3 cans to many lol
jred

Our net spend is obscured by the Ronaldo sale. Take away the Ronaldo sale and the Glazers have net spent circa £30m a season since their arrival.

£30.75m is the biggest transfer, including agent fees and tax it is closer to £40m on a 27 year old Berbatov.

Servicing debt over the past four years has cost £68.8m/£68.8m/£50.7m/£40m/£92m/£67m = just shy of £400m.

No the balance is not right and this is the reason why I hate the Glazers, but this isn't my point Jred, I know the Glazers have wasted a fortune of our club's money and will continue to do so, but I still believe there is cash for transfers, that is where my opinion differs from yours.

Sydney!

"our accounts show we have money thats a fact.
over say the last 3 years we haven't signed one so called big name thats a fact.
jred"

But where's the evidence that suggests the lack of big name signings has been down to lack of funds? Like I have maintained players may have not been available, they may have preferred Spain to England, even prefer London to Manchester. I understand we have missed out on players, but I do not think it's down to lack of money and more to do with being gazumped by teams in better locations.

Sydney!

Syd
to be fair i never said since they arrived i said the last 4 year also dont take the ronaldo money off just because its a big transfer doesnt make it any less valid than the gibson sale when working out net spend.

do the same thing over the last 3 years it makes even worse reading.

But thats not the point, have a look at my posts, when did i say there is no money, when did i mention the glazers.
what i said was united could do better in the transfer market ,we could pay higher wages and still make profit , with the money the club generates we could compete at the top end of the market something we haven't managed to do these past few years.
if you disagree with that fair enough but i think you have been to busy making your point you have dismissed mine.
"i still believe there is cash for transfers"
so do I ,but not as much as there could be
jred

"i still believe there is cash for transfers"
so do I ,but not as much as there could be
jred

Very true, if there was no debt we would have more cash. BUT! we do have debt. If we never had debt would we spend more? Perhaps we would, but we would never pay inflated salaries like City and Chelsea do. That is a road we will never go down. You need to earn a huge wage at United. Let me ask, If we had paid Rooney what we are paying him now when we bought him, what would he be on now? Would he even be at the club? If Hazard is on £200K a week, what will he want in three years time when he is negotiating a new deal? Where does it end? If we agreed to Sneijder's demands which were that high both City and Chelsea snubbed him, what happens if we agreed to that and he gets a big injury and doesn't recover from is injury the same player as he was? How can you justify paying Sneijder a reported £250k a week after one world-class season?

Sydney!

"The issue i have is that united do have the money to compete at the top end of the market we choose not to."

one other thing apart from what you read in the paper or hear on a banter site where's the evidence we are competing at the top end of the market, how do you prove that statement wrong.
our accounts show we have money thats a fact.
over say the last 3 years we haven't signed one so called big name thats a fact.
jred
that was the full post and to be fair you never answered it .
look syd i gave my opinion and ive backed it up as best i can , not with rumours from papers or banter sites but from researching, i might well be wrong.
but maybe you are?
jred

Syd
im not going to get in to the sneijder issue i rate him highly i think he has had more than one worldclass season but we have discussed this before.
what happens if a player get injured , well you could say that about every transfer?
but again you have dismissed my point.
this is about the fourth time ive put this

united could if they wanted to pay very high wages and still be profitable maybe we are run to much like a business and not enough like a club.
this has nothing to do with the anti glazer, man city , chelsea or sneijder. its my opinion after looking into the workings of the club.
read my OP again i really dont know why you have such an issue with it
jred

03 Jun 2012 07:04:39
belgium 0 england 1

(Hazard looks terrible)

Hope he flops

03 Jun 2012 02:04:55
wow, have just seen a you tube clip of some guy called joey barton, he plays for qpr and for some reason he could be available pretty cheap
on you tube it shows he can pass, he can score and can put a tackle in! fergie sign him up!!

dags

Joey you need to stop drinking so much drink in dagenham!!!!

ya header

Robbo

03 Jun 2012 00:58:54
Apparently we're looking at Tiote of Newcastle. Anyone know what price he'd be going for? He had a decent season with Newcastle, but with 14 yellow cards! Be a good buy if the price was right and SAF could sort out his discipline!

30 mill plus still has 5 and half years on his contract plus he doesn't want to leave, that was 2 seasons ago 14 yellow cards

20 million

fearny