Manchester United Banter Archive May 03 2015

 

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03 May 2015 22:00:04
It has become obvious that we are crying out for a Carrick replacement. The question is who?

Do we look for someone who has the same qualities as Carrick or do we look for something different. Do we want a deep lying playmaker who can shield the defence or would it be better to move towards a more traditional defensive midfielder ala Makelele and leave the creative stuff to the guys further forward?

Personally I think we could do with both, it would add some much needed tactical flexibility to the squad.

Gundogan has been mentioned but he would require a more specialist DM along side him as he ventures forward more often than Carrick does which would leave us exposed in the middle. He could work very well with a William Carvalho type player alongside him. But to sign both of those two we are looking at around the 50m mark. Which considering we need to sign a RB, CB, ST and side player makes it unlikely that we can afford to spend so much on the midfield. Maybe De Jong could be a good short term fix.

But I have been watching a player this season which my German friend Markus told me about at the start of the season as someone to keep an eye on. He also pointed out both Gundogan and Reus to me before they moved to Dortmund, as well as Vidal during his first season in the Bundesliga. He also said Kevin Volland would be a world beater but I won't hold that against him. lol.

The player he told me to keep a close eye on was Johannes Geis, so I have this season been watching him and I must say I have been very impressed with him.

He can play as either a DM or as a box to box type midfielder. He is technically excellent, with great technique, he is reasonably strong and quick with a great passing range, his long balls are simply amazing and he is a mean dead ball specialist. His reading of the game is also very good, he makes plenty of tackles and interceptions per game and often vital ones, he is also mature in his decision making knowing when not to dive in and rather just hold the player up until help can come and shut the opposition player off. He isn't yet the finished article, he sometimes goes missing in games and he needs to learn more patience with his passing sometimes trying to force it too much always looking for that defence splitting ball, rather than waiting for the opportune moment. But these are things which come with age and quality coaching.

In my opinion he would be an excellent signing to bring in this summer to work with Carrick to learn from him.

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03 May 2015 22:38:20
I also watch a lot of German football and think Volland is an excellent player who would be more noticed in a better team with better players. Gets is good but I think he needs to have another full season to see if teams work out how to nullify him. I really do think we need a defensive shield who can pass forward with vision along with a driving box to Box type player

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03 May 2015 23:04:10
Tielemans!!!

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{Ed004's Note - In an ideal and unrealistic world I'd love Javi Martinez}

03 May 2015 23:23:35
Ronnie, Tielemans will be an excellent player. He will be much closer to a powerful box to box midfielder ala Yaya Toure when he's fully filled out. Where as we need someone who can sit and dictate the tempo. Beside as good as Tielemans is he isn't ready for the premier league, and certainly not for a team expected to challenge on all fronts. He needs another couple of years to be ready for a team such as ourselves.

Herefordred, I'm not saying Volland isn't a good player, he is just a bit too inconsistant for me. If he can bring a level of consistancy to his game he will be and excellent player. But imo Schurrle is a better player currently.
As for Geis I would like to see us sign a player before the rest of the world becomes fully aware of him amd his price sky rockets. What would have happened if we had that attitude to signing a young Ronaldo? He would have ended up at some other club. Besides I think Geis would learn more playing with us and training daily with the man he will be trying to replace. We can also mould him exactly into the player we need that way As well.

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04 May 2015 00:19:35
The only player who plays the Carrick role as good as Carrick is Sergio Busquets. Protects the back four through interceptions and intelligence and his passing arsenal is fantastic. In an ideal world though it would be Schneiderlin for me.

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04 May 2015 00:22:05
Hummels passing range we need a hard man like roy keen to put them in to row z

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04 May 2015 06:15:10
Although it would be a lot of money i'd want vidal, gundogan and herrera in a midfield 3

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04 May 2015 08:29:32
Shappy, I've seen you mention Granit Xhaka quite a few times as well. He's a bit of a different player to Carrick in that he can be more physical but I have to agree he'd be a good buy. I also wouldn't mind Luiz Gustavo.

However, I'd say the best fit that's available would be William Carvalho. He is physical but is a very good passer and reader of the game from what I have seen. He'd also be a good addition to our squad as he can play CB. Since Jones, Smalling and Rojo seem to be made of glass.

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04 May 2015 09:15:01
I have only seen him once but Nainggollan at Roma looked a good player in that type of midfield area. Perhaps those who have seen him more could better assess?

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04 May 2015 09:54:27
I've watched Nainggolan quite a few times and he looks like a solid defensive mid, very tough and loves a hard tackle, quick to turn defence into attack. I personally think he's like a more defensive Vidal! Would give us that steel in midfield we've been missing for a long time.

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04 May 2015 10:06:45
I think Verrati would be Taylor made for us but he has his heart set on going to Juve. He is Ideal. Gundogan is too small and not a good replacement of carsick and will get pushed around.

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04 May 2015 10:48:37
Shappy, I remember Geis being mentioned last season, was said he "is the anti-cleverly" I think by bleacher report can't be sure though. That was the 1st i heard of him and checked his stats then with a few comments from my Bundesliga loving friends, he sounded like a must-sign player! Although i haven't watched a game of his yet.

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mbd              

04 May 2015 11:29:38
You do realise that Verratti is about 5 ft 5" GCU? A wee bit smaller than Gundogan. Anyway we don't necessarily need a physically strong player in the holding role. We need someone with an excellent passing range, who can read the game and has good positional sense. Verratti would be perfect, but looks unlikely. Although Gundogan has a good passing range, he's closer to Herrera than what we need. And a lot of the other players mentioned are classic cdm who won't add much to our current modus operandi.

We need a Pirlo not a De Jong. And personally I think someone like Schniderin or Matudi could do a job for us, but as long as the cdm remains the creative focal point, it's going to be really tricky to find the right player.

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04 May 2015 12:09:29
@Red Man

Naingollan would be a top addition to the squad. Very powerful and also has great positional discipline. The editor has told us about our interest in him and that we may bid once his ownership issues are resolved.

I think we need two midfielders. One more defensive minded and another who can dictate the tempo and dribble through midfield as well.

Naingollan and Gundogan would be my pick and signing them doesn't look unrealistic at all. A midfield three of Naingollan Gundogan and Herrera would be world class.

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04 May 2015 14:50:44
If we went for 2 CM's then look no further than Southampton.
Wanyama n Schneiderlin - already know each others game to.

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04 May 2015 18:24:22
Danny

I know he is not tall but he is strong and quite physical and has great passing range where gundogan is not as physical enough for me.

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03 May 2015 20:11:17
I wanted everyone's opinion on Benteke, is he ready for a top club like ourselves? How much better are similar players like Cabani for example?

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03 May 2015 20:22:19
I'd rather have Benteke , he's younger , will only get better and has proven he can score goals in the PL

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03 May 2015 20:24:58
I personally think the lad has a lot of great qualities, can play with his back to goal well to link up play, can run beyond defenders, has a good shot on him and good in the air both offensively and defensively so i think a move to a bigger club is a question of when not if

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03 May 2015 21:21:14
He is a very good player, not in the world class bracket and unlikely to reach that level imo, but it's not beyond him.

He's strong as an Ox, pretty quick, very good in the air, and clinical in front of goal. He's a little like a young Drogba, but has yet to reach Drogba's peak level.

We could certainly do a lot worse than sign him up, he would add a completely different element to our front line which we currently lack.

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04 May 2015 00:20:50
His injury record isn't great and I feel Villa would over value him. Having said that he isn't a bad player but we could get better.

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04 May 2015 07:43:07
He's a lot better than people give him credit for. A choice between him,rvp or Falcao, I'll take Benteke any day. Also, if he plays with better players then that'll improve him.

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04 May 2015 08:17:58
He's one of a few players who recieve the ball to feet in or around the area and u think goal. He can score from outside the area and he's good in the air, good all rounder who at 24 and averaging a goal every other game at villa would have the potential to hit the level of top strikers in Europe. Judging off the rumours it looks more like he's a Liverpool target not a UTD one.

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04 May 2015 09:02:38
i agree entirely. Everyone is talking about signing centre backs, midfield players, right sided players and yes let's invest our transfer budget on bale! lol, ignoring our problems up front.
Falcao hasn't delivered, RVP getting old and past his best, wilson not yet ready and even wazza isn't a natural centre forward although i wouldn't have a problem with him playing there.
Benteke would be an excellent signing for all the reasons listed above by other posters.
The fundamental job of a centre forward is to get goals and benteke has proved that he can do this in the premier league and represents a better bet than someone like cavani who would cost twice as much in both transfer fees and wages and has no EPL experience.

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04 May 2015 10:11:09
Benteke would be ideal for us as he gives us the muscle and speed upfront like Costa does for chelsea and no CB in the league can handle him when he is on form.

All our strikers are small and will never muscle any cb. I prefer him to Lukaku and think longer term he will end up being a better player.

After our spanish experiment this past summer with ADM and Falcao, i think we would better off buying players that have proven they can play in the PL and that is why l like Clyne or even Schneiderling.

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04 May 2015 11:44:25
The funny thing is Benteke had a first season similar to Kane including being nominated for pfa young player. The hype surrounding kane however is a lot more apparent, can anybody wonder why haha

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03 May 2015 20:02:42
Hi Eds, just wondering if utd concede to losing ddg to madrid if they would try and lure a star player from madrid in return

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{Ed002's Note - Manchester United will attempt to buy the players they want and not make random exchanges.}

03 May 2015 19:45:09
To any of the eds,

Forgive me if this has been done to death but do any of you stil feel lvg could stil move on in the summer regardless of champions league? I mean with klopp being available, to me it would make sense to make a move for him just so we don't miss out. A few years ago Spurs did it with avb when they gave redknapp the chop.
Even if lvg does his job (get top 4) would u rather stick with him for 2 more seasons or would you go for someone like klopp? Saying that klopp may not even be a choice for us but u would think the club would have given it a thought surely?

Cheers guys

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{Ed004's Note - If LvG gets top 4 I think he will stay. He has already laid the foundations for next season and I'm sure we will be a lot better next year}

03 May 2015 20:08:40
How did sacking Redknapp and hiring AVB go for Spurs? The grass isn't always greener. Klopp is a very good manager, and yet he has only had success and one club, he also has a relegation on his CV and has only just managed a miraculous recovery over the last couple of months to stop him having 2 relegations on his CV. He is also totally unproven in the premier league. Many very good managers have come to England and have failed horrifically. Juande Ramos and Phil Scolari come to mind.

Klopp would be a massive gamble, and its not one that at the moment is worth taking. We have a very good manager who has done a good job. Maybe not an amazing one, but he has at the least he has managed(almost) to complete the tasks set him. The squad still needs a lot of work and going back to square one unnecessarily is a case of one step forward and two steps back.

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03 May 2015 20:12:50
We would be back to square one if the manager was sacked IMO.

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03 May 2015 20:29:49
I like Klopp, his ideas and his passion, but if LVG gets top four, he deserves another chance. Considering that he came in off a prolonged World Cup run with the Dutch, he deserves a chance to show what he can do with a full window to bring in who he wants and a full preseason. As we know, he likes his preparation time.

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03 May 2015 20:34:29
So if we get rid of LVG , get in Klopp and he doesn't set the world on fire straight away , who'll be the next flavour of the month manager to replace him for the following season

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03 May 2015 21:04:04
I'm not saying do it, I'm merely saying that sometimes you would need to bite the bullet when a top manager becomes available like klopp. We keep lvg, then in 2 years say klopp is at City and guardiola goes arsenal for example, would we not be back at square 1 anyway? Taking a gamble on someone like giggs? To shappy, I think avb was doing fine at Spurs and was wrongly dismissed. So that one was the right call. Lvg's cv isn't exactly glittering is it? With his 2 titles since the turn of the century

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03 May 2015 21:12:59
When was LVG ever on our radar? Hardly flavour of the month.

I could see the logic in both Moyes and LVG, but like the vast majority of people we wanted Pep, Klopp, Mourinho.

No problem in going back to square one if the direction we are heading isn't where we want to go. Who wants boring, slow possession based football.

A key part of why Man Utd are loved throughout the world is our swashbuckling, attacking, attractive and entertaining footballing mentality. LVG is systematically destroying that in my eyes.

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03 May 2015 21:32:44
Diego, there will always be good managers available, maybe in a couple of year Simeone will be looking for a new challenge, maybe De Boer has moved to a top european side and proven his quality or any other young up and coming manager.

LvG has alluded to the clubs preference for maybe Ryan Giggs taking over when LvG moves on. Who's to say he isn't a young Pep in the making who himself had never managed a top flight team before he got the top job at Barca.

Sometimes the big name manager isn't the right choice for the club, to be honest the next manager we appoint should be interviewed properly to find out whether he really is right for the job. His management style as well as his playing style are vital, as are his plans moving forward and his ideas on youth development. He has to be able to make the most out of what we have while building on it to take the club forward.

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03 May 2015 21:34:48
Beast, not so long ago - a few weeks in fact - you stated that you were looking forward to watching us again.

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03 May 2015 22:25:06
If we change manager next year it could put us back another 12 months,new manager, new ideas,new players,no coaches,if we are spending big money this summer we need a manager in place for 4 or 5 years at least

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04 May 2015 07:49:31
As much as I love klopp,we can't just get rid of lvg for no reason. If we're in top 4 then that will be target achieved and we go again next year

I'm sure Pep will be available in the future and that's who we should be going for when the time is right.

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04 May 2015 10:13:54
Nomid

I completely agree on Pep. The exact type of Manager that is Ideal for United from a managerial and also how he handles players. Needless to say he would have a massive positive influence on players coming to us where LVG might put some off given his approach.

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04 May 2015 12:19:36
If we get Gundogan he would probably play in a mid 3 with Carrick and Herra and cover Carrick when injured. For the prices quoted its a no brainer. Longer term Gundogan could move to the Carrick role and a box to box CM in the mould of Vidal brought in for his position. Alternately the club may have a long term solution in the youth ranks (sean goss?).

we obviously need a RB and it appears we are looking at CB's. We desperately need two wingers though. We lack pace upfront making us easy to defend against. The lack of forward pace also puts pressure on our Midfield as we can't stretch teams. For me Di Maria needs to go, his head isn't in it, Depay and felipe Anderson all day long for me.

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03 May 2015 18:29:37
A lot of people saying how we miss carrick and we do miss him him,but if we are depending on one player at united there's something wrong,interesting Gary Neville said all along even when we were winning he wasn't convinced,a lot of injuries didn't help the manager but he didn't help himself playing negative sideways and backward passing,the depay transfer seems to be taking another twist is that because lvg is leaving,is it the only chance we have of getting Klop in as manager in the next few months,whatever it is I hope we get our buisness done fast and not drag it out all over the summer

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03 May 2015 19:18:37
I don't know whether there is any mood for getting rid of LVG at the club, the Eds have intimated there are various issues that may dictate what happens.
Regards to Deepay different papers and sites say we are or Liverpool are favourites so don't be too worriedo just yet.
As for Klopp.it could be we have to go for him. I think he is great and maybe with bringing in Hummels, Gundagon. could we also get Reus ontop.even Bender!!! Just,wishful thinking. It may encourage him to come!

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04 May 2015 10:15:20
There a a couple of people on the board that don't necessarily think he is doing a good job and we are underachieving. They are football people so their view has a large influence.

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03 May 2015 18:18:14
Any chance of Angelo Henriquez getting a chance at United after his loan has expired?

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{Ed002's Note - I rather think not.}

03 May 2015 18:09:59
Who would have thought at the start of the season (after all our amazing signings and confidence after a decent pre-season) we would be worried about the prospect of playing Palace to hopefully secure just 4th place?

Palace are safe, they have nothing but pride to play for. We have everything to play for and yet I wouldn't put a penny on us winning. That for me sums up the season.

What odds on Zaha haunting us?

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03 May 2015 18:47:56
A lot of people also predicted we would struggle to get 4th place.

I think some people need to take a step back and realise that we haven't got a great team at the moment. It is littered with above average players. Yet, those above average players have shone this season under the current manager; and the players who we all thought world class have been complete and utter dross. Yet we are vastly improved from last season, although we still have some of last seasons hang-overs.

The signings this season, with the exception of Di Maria and Falcao - and possible shaw - have done well and have big futures at the club. Shaw, if the lad can stay injury free, will become, IMO, one of the best full backs in world football. He has the attributes to be that good.

We will beat Palace next week because we have to beat them IMO. They will be up for the game but that psychological cutting edge will be on the wane now the season is close to an end. It won't be pretty and I expect there will be a few twists and turns, but I expect us to get the job done. Then, the work for next season starts and I really hope to see young Andreas Pereira given a game because the lad is the real deal IMO.

At the end of the day Beast, you have not fancied the manager from day one. But you have to admit that getting the team back into the CL would merit a successful season after last seasons debacle.

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03 May 2015 18:53:54
Beast, I said at the time that we're stupid to let Zaha go. Hope next week he doesn't come to haunt us.
Underwhelming season, but this year was all about rebuilding. In fact,next year might be the same with slight improvement. Rome was nor built in a day!

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03 May 2015 19:54:23
CL football will be a decent result as you say Sam, so let's hope we get it.

Nomid - My issue is that despite there being a change in system which can take time agreed, we are not progressing. We need new players to make it work apparently, but who says they will make it work? Didn't he sign ADM with a view to making it work? Herrera & Shaw who he doesn't seem to fancy as well?

We need to be able to be flexible dependent on opposition and the changes they make, so play in more than 1 way. Frankly I feel all we have learnt this season is that a lot of our players struggle with this system and we can dominate possession stats whilst doing little with the ball. We have also learnt it all falls down when you don't have a clever holding player.

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04 May 2015 00:28:41
If he plays shaw he will not give him a toutch

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04 May 2015 08:31:29
A successful season, scraping 4th, playing boring football, after spending 150 million on players that have hardly set the world alight,in the poorest premier league ever!
Not my idea of success

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04 May 2015 15:37:56
We finished 7th last season in an equally poor league.

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05 May 2015 15:56:19
Sam

City, Liverpool were much better last year and so was Everton. The only team that is about the same as last year is Spurs.

We had a disaster of a transfer window as well.

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03 May 2015 17:50:02
After feeling like the world had ended last night, my senses have returned and I have been thinking about our current predicament. Firstly, after losing three on the bounce, we can still tie up 4th place next week if Chelsea beat Liverpool - job done. The angst we all are feeling atm will disappear like a fart in the wind. But, IMO, the manager needs to change the formation if Carrick is still unavailable.

With Carrick in the side, those nice triangles on the left and the right become so effective because Fellaini and Herrera are moving into the channels, which allows for the wide forwards and full backs to over power the opposition in those areas. But Carricks absence has meant that Fellaini and Herrera are having to play altered roles because the midfield has no natural holding player. That is my take anyway.

Yesterday games was crying out for width. The selection, IMO, was all wrong. Mata should have been played in CM alongside Herrera. We didn't need a deep lying player in the team against a WBA team whose game plan basically confined them to their own half for large periods of the game. We could have gotten away with playing Herrera, Mata and Di Maria in the middle, and played Januzaj on the right side: Januzaj, for his faults, is very good at stretching the full backs. And considering WBA played with 4 CB's, I think Januzaj would have had a field day down the right.

Palace - although they will be more forward thinking considering the pace they have on the flanks - will pretty much set up the same as WBA, so we can afford to play three offensive thinking CM players if Carrick is still unavailable, or play an out and out 442.

A lot of people are saying that the system LVG is trying to implement has been found out; but I think those people are talking .ollocks. The system is fine. It works. But it only works when certain players are present in the side. With better quality players in the team and more pace up front, we will be a very effective outfit playing the system the manager is currently implementing; and, IMO, will bring us success both domestically and in Europe.

I am going to remain positive and say that we will rise to the occasion next week and secure those three points. We have too. Failure is not an option!

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03 May 2015 18:05:48
the system works fine we just need the right players ?
how much will messi neymar suarez iniesta and co cost.
.
im a fan of carrick but in a game that we had 80 % possession and played most of the game in there half i'm not sure what difference he would of made.

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03 May 2015 18:31:39
Carrick playing, as I explained in the above post, would have allowed Herrera and Fellaini to pick up positions between the CB and Full back, which they did so well against Spurs, City, Liverpool and Villa.

It isn't coincidence that we have failed to score in the three games Carrick has been absent. The structure, build up and position of the players has changed, which has been detrimental to the side.

We don't need messi, neymar and suarez to make it work better - although that would be nice; we just need players who can play the roles being asked of them to a high standard. That means players who have pace, good movement and a decent football brain.

Stick an inform Di Maria and another pacey winger on the other side, and you watch us go next season. Of course, we need to invest in more quality CM players who can perform a similar role to Carrick, as we have been found wanting in that department.

It is a game of opinions and it is my opinion that LVG will turn us into a very good football team if he can get the right players to fulfill his vision. But first we need to get three points next week, and I don't care how we get them. We just need to get them and get CL football secured. Once that happens, things will kick into gear nicely.

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03 May 2015 19:00:22
Sam,as much as I've supported lvg,I think next week,we'll be heading for a hiding. Can't see us getting anything from that game. Even before we lost 3 on the trot, I had marked out this game as a loss. We have a bad record there and that won't change next week.
Manager has gone into hos cage just the time we need him to bite. If we go there trying to play possession, then we're in for a big loss. If we go there to hit on the break,then we might stand a chance.

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03 May 2015 19:27:18
A hiding against Palace? Are you serious? I don't share your view. We will either win the game or lose to the solitary goal as a consequence of being caught on the break or them scoring from a set piece. They just won't have enough of the ball to give us a hiding. That is what's so effing frustrating: teams are beating us with only 30 + percent of the ball. We are not being outplayed, or even out thought. We are just struggling to execute the killer pass in the final third which has more to do, IMO, with not having MC in the side, which allows the others in CM to pick up threatening positions.

Football is fickle. Yes, we don't look like we could score atm, but we could also end up winning our last three games and scoring a ton of goals, such is the nature of our season.

Have some faith mate.

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03 May 2015 17:39:28
next Saturday's game against Palace is the biggest of the season against a team who deploy the exact tactics that we have struggled against for 3 games in a row now. Lose that game and I'd fancy liverpool to turn over a chelsea side who would probably prefer a liverpool side in the champions league rather than us who would then compete for possible transfers with chelsea. We desperately need stop the rot or it could become unrecoverable having to beat arsenal would not be ideal. Would like to see LVG mix it up for the palace game with out and out wide men to get behind the defence, hopefully Carrick is back as the rest of the midfield are average at best. Would like 2 up front as well as our current formation is too easy to defend against. Still not convinced by LVG big season next year where we have to be competitive in all trophies overall the season has been a failure in my eyes apart from the 3 recent games against City, liverpool and Spurs it's been just as woeful as last season. Posession stats mean nothing when it's around the half way line, not looking forward to Saturday palace showed today how organised they can be

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03 May 2015 15:21:33
Thoughts on the last 3 games :-

1. Possession

I don't think our possession stats are anything to be proud about. Keeping such high amount of possession only suggests to me that we are playing far too many safe, sideways passes, play with a slow tempo and do not take any risks. That style is good when you are a goal or two up, can draw the opposition in and hit them on the counter attack, but isn't when you have Juan Mata with no pace cutting in, while Ashley Young (even with his recent good form) on the other flank not being able to run at the right back.

2. Inverted wingers

The very point of having inverted wingers is to have more movement and stock up midfield, so you have a dual option, either the winger cuts inside and plays a one two, or the full back overlaps and is into space.

I don't think this works with the personnel we have. Mata is too slow to be an inverted winger, and quite frankly is wasted there, unless there is a very weak and inexperienced full back who commits mistakes. Ashley Young on the other hand is predictable, and unless Fellaini is getting in the box, doesn't produce much either. Valencia's crossing is terrible and the only proper outlet we have is Daley Blind.

Gone are the days when we would concentrate play on one side of the field, draw the opposition towards that side and then quickly move the ball to other side to get a 2 vs 1 against a full back.

Wingers hugging the touchline forces the opposition full backs to come out to mark them, that creates space through which runs can be made, yet with our style we don't seem to be doing that.

3. Running from central midfield

Since we play with inverted wingers, we allow the opposition to stay compact centrally and there is very little space to play through midfield. With Van Gaal's obsession with ball possession, neither of our three central midfielders wants to take a player on and beat him, we always play the safe sideways pass, or recycle the ball backwards.

Do we have a player who will take players on in midfield who we can play in the midfield 3? Certainly Di Maria played that role extremely effectively at Real Madrid and had his best season in that role, but Van Gaal seems to favor Fellaini there. He has also been quoted as saying "Di Maria dribbles too much." Januzaj certainly played that role last season with great success.

It seems to me that players are scared of going against Van Gaal's philosophy. It is quite clear that he doesn't want the players to take chances and play through the middle.

4. Lack of flexibility and second half.

We seem to have a complete lack of flexibility in the style, formation and intensity of our play, practically no plan B. We play the same way for the whole 90 minutes. Van Gaal rarely gets up from the bench or make changes during the game.

Contrast this to Sir Alex, you never saw a United team, especially when a goal down play the same way. The team played different formations very well and switched tactics in the blink of an eye during the game. It put enormous pressure on the opposition and forced mistakes.

Also, we lack intensity in the second half of games. I only remember the City games where we played better in the second half than the first.

5. Absence of Carrick

Carrick is a very clever player who with his passing range can control the game. He also has the ability to switch play and constantly bring the opposition defense out of shape. Nobody in the current team does that.

6. The next 3 games :-

I hope Januzaj starts on the left side of a midfield 3, in place of Fellaini and Di Maria as the left winger. Sure, it may leave us a bit lightweight and exposed defensively but that will be difficult to defend against and certainly won't be predictable. Mata needs to be dropped and someone else needs to play in that position, perhaps Valencia can be pushed up so that he can just hug the touchline and stretch the opposition.

7. Next season :-

I can see why we are interested in Gundogan. He will add the much needed movement in midfield and take on players and beat them. His diagonal passing is also very good.

Everyone seems to be worried about Hummels' pace but I think he is exactly what we need. He is like an extra midfielder when in possession and brings the ball out breaching the first line of defense very well.

Depay looks a top talent and I hope we don't miss out obsessing over Bale. A new right back like Clyne who can be up and down the pitch and cross well would improve us a lot.

8. Bale :-

I can see what he adds to the team. Pace, power and the ability to go past players. He also has a great shooting ability from outside the box. But is he worth the money he would cost? If we can get all of the other targets AND Bale, then I am all for it, but that doesn't seem feasible.

I have a different theory on Bale. We need to go for him next summer, not this one and look at him as the long term replacement for Wayne Rooney. Not the Rooney post his injury against Bayern, but the pre 2010 Rooney. The one who had acceleration, took players on and beat them. We miss that kind of player so dearly.

I think Bale would be fantastic playing the role just behind the main striker and solve a lot of our problems, especially, running through midfield and stretching the opposition. To bring the best out of him though, a striker who constantly plays on the shoulder of the last defender is required.

But there are other priorities before we can go for Bale.

P.S. Sorry for the long post.

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03 May 2015 15:31:41
There are priorities of course: RB, CB and DM being the main ones. But we could quite possibly get all three positions fixed for around £60-70 million which does leave some room to go for Bale.

I have argued the point before that the top sides in Europe have that one special player: Messi, Ronaldo, Tevez, Ibra etc . I don't think that we do. Bale is truly world class and is amongst the top 5 best players in the world. Di Maria is very good when in form, as is Rooney and RVP, but neither are quite as good as Bale. He would transform our forward line and for me is quite an important one to chase if we are to compete in Europe and domestically.

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03 May 2015 15:42:26
Absolutely first rate summation for me mate.

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03 May 2015 15:50:00
I also want to praise you on your post. I totally agree about the style aspect especially and I think it is a crying shame that we are still relying on Carrick who is in the twilight of his career. I do wonder if LVGs rigidity will cost him his job in the end, winning games by playing different ways is more important that an overarching philosophy.

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03 May 2015 16:05:45
Very good post RF.

I also think starting with Januzaj on the right makes more sense than starting Mata.


"winning games by playing different ways is more important that an overarching philosophy."

Very well said Fresh! In today's game you have to be dynamic and change formations on the go according to the need of the situation. And it is certainly possible with our squad with players like Young, Blind, Rooney etc capable of playing multiple positions but somehow that does not seem to be happening.
I mean who would've thought we would see Rooney and RvP playing midfield and Fellaini as striker?

I would also like to mention Valencia is extremely embarrassing to watch. I mean for the past two games he was getting beat for strength from Lukaku and Lescott, granted both are strong but I thought pace and strength were Valencia's strong points.


I also think we cannot miss out of Depay regardless of what happens with Bale. Depay will turn out to be a star imo.

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{Ed004's Note - If, and it's a big if, both Depay and Bale were signed surely that is overkill? We would have Bale, Di Maria, Depay, Mata, Young, Januzaj and Valencia who can play out wide. Van Gaal seems reluctant to play Mata, Di Maria or Januzaj centrally so would assume he wouldn't play Bale and Depay there.}

03 May 2015 16:21:35
ED04, I personally am a fan of Mata but i feel he is a player who does well when the team does well however in times when the opposition presses you or gets physical he is out of the game and that is something we cannot afford. I would be ok if we sold Mata.

Loaning Januzaj would be a good move for all people involved imo.

ADM i am not very sure about. His attitude and performances so far have been far from convincing but its only his first season. However if selling ADM means we buy Bale then I would take that offer.

That would leave us with Young, Bale, Depay, Valencia and Januzaj(if we do not loan him and there are also rumours about LvG planning to make him a striker). Those are good enough options with all getting pretty good game time given that we don't have a very good record injury wise and will also have more games next season.

Let's not forget if we play with just 1 conventional striker we will certainly need more wide-men.

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{Ed004's Note - Ideally if Bale and Depay are signed. Then sell Young when he is at his highest market value, loan Januzaj (PSV or Everton) and play Mata centrally more often. Leaves wide options of Bale, Di Maria and Depay. Mata, Valencia and Rooney can play wide depending on injuries.}

03 May 2015 16:23:19
Ed - I would expect Mata & Januzaj (loan) to be moved on maybe even ADM if we sign both Depay & Bale.

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03 May 2015 16:27:02
@Ed004

Don't think it will be an overkill. Januzaj will most likely go out on loan. Young, as good as his form has been, isn't a player who I would lose any tears over if he is let go or not in the starting 11. Mata, unless played behind the main striker, offers nothing IMO.

This may be an unpopular opinion, but if we were to sacrifice some players to partially finance a move for Bale, it would be Mata and perhaps RVP too.

Also Di maria and Depay playing on either wing and Bale playing behind the main striker would be perfectly normal I think. All three of them can interchange and are comfortable in all 3 roles behind the main striker. All that movement and pace ought to cause the opposition huge problems.

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{Ed004's Note - I would love to see those 3 behind a striker but do you think LvG would? The more I think about it the more it makes more sense to sign both of them. I just think it'll be difficult to sign Bale (if not impossible). They're bound to look for De Gea in any deal}

03 May 2015 16:38:42
ED04 if we think about LvG then ADM, Bale and Depay are all players who take risks and are likely to lose the ball. That itself does not fit LvG's philosophy.

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{Ed004's Note - I think those 3 would work well behind a striker as long as they had cover in behind them. Not sure finances are there to sign them all as well as a rb, cb and midfielder}

03 May 2015 17:02:39
I don't know about anyone else but Valencia has none of the skills required to play for us as a winger. I would loan Januzaj out to Everton for sure and get Bale and Depay. That would give us options of Bale, Depay, Di Maria, Young and Mata who for me is far better centrally that he is wide. It would be really harsh to sell Young and I don't think we would do it. We could play all 3 of Bale, Depay and Di Maria behind Rooney if we wished, or I suppose we could sell Di Maria to fund moves - selling Di Maria would't leave us short I don't think.

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{Ed004's Note - But who will pay over 30 million for Di Maria and be able to cover his wages (rules out Italian sides). Only option is PSG who Ed2 said aren't interested.}

03 May 2015 17:20:20
Yes, I agree that we would struggle to flog Di Maria at this stage. I would offer him back to RM as part of a Bale deal though. However, I would also consider using De Gea as part of a deal for Bale. We can't afford to miss out on Bale, there aren't many like him around, but we could get someone like Leno or Lloris to replace DDG.

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{Ed002's Note - You want the fantasy football pages.}

03 May 2015 17:29:09
For the cost of ADM you could have Memphis Depay and Felipe Anderson. That's right and left wing sorted for a decade.

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03 May 2015 19:06:26
Red faith, start with januzaj and Di Maria? What have they done to deserve a start? Agree with some of the points but we have to keep calm and play the right tactics next week. We have to contain their pacey wingers and hit them on the break.
Januzaj does not cut it I'm afraid. And Di Maria has been given umpteen chances and hugely disappointed.
To throw him in at Palace will be a disaster.

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03 May 2015 13:59:35
Never thought I'll say this but need City to get a draw or win today. That will take spurs out of the equation.
And if Palace can sneak a draw then it will ensure Chelsea are up for the match against Liverpool.

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03 May 2015 14:30:00
So sad that it has come down to this.
Carrick would be back for the palace game and I hope we would win that one.

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03 May 2015 14:37:31
Somehow we have to stop the rot, but Palace are no pushovers and we haven't scored for 270 minutes.

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03 May 2015 14:46:32
I'm going for a draw against palace, draw against arsenal, and scrape a win at hull giving us 5 points we need to scrape 4th

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03 May 2015 15:24:06
I'm less optimistic. I think we will get a draw with Palace, lose to an in form Arsenal and scrape a 2-1 win on the last day having gone behind - this will probably relegate Hull. 4 points should be enough though as I think Liverpool will get a maximum of 5 points from their last 3. Chelsea, Palace and away at Stoke is tough.

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03 May 2015 15:58:34
Guaranga guys we didn't lose 4-0 to west brom, on another day we would have scored 5, we created so many chances, I understand losing brings out the pessimism but we are 4 points ahead of liverpool with 3 games left, it could be better but it isn't, liverpool have been poor recently as well but you all expect them to suddenly get 9 points and us to struggle. A few weeks ago people were saying we are good enough to finish 2nd, it's amazing the difference a few weeks can make to people's opinions, so fickle.

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03 May 2015 19:09:37
Gds. I'm behind lvg but we've gone 270 mins and not scored a goal. Now we're going to Palace where we find it difficult to get results.
I have zero confidence in US getting anything from that game.

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03 May 2015 13:51:12
This will not be a doom and gloom post, nor will it be an LVG out post. If we get 4th you can say that he has steadied the ship and put some confidence back into a quite unhappy bunch of players.

My question though is, in the long run do we suit the 4-3-3. I ask this primarily because of Rooney. I don't for one minute think that Rooney fits into this system at all. To get the best out of Rooney he needs to be a support striker and right now he is either up top on his own or very deep in midfield - neither of which are his positions.

To me, this squad of player, and the players that we are looking to bring in are better suited to a 4-2-3-1. Rooney is not an out and out number 9 and is incapable of spearheading an attack due to his desperate need to be involved at all times. Look at the Dortmund team that made the CL final. A 4-2-3-1 with quality attacking midfielders like Reus and Goetze behind an out and out striker, Lewandowski.

The 4-2-3-1 may not be quite as good for possession, but it is more useful in possession and there are more players further forward in threatening positions that can set up chances. You have the number 9 either on the defenders shoulder or running into the channels, the number 10 operating around the box and then two wide players who can either whip a ball in or cut inside and have a shot themselves. The 4-3-3 on the other hand is far superior for possession but there are fewer options forward and is therefore easier to mark against - especially with a lack of pace in the side.

This post is not advocating the sacking of LVG, nor is it calling for it. But I can't help but feel that if Klopp came in and played say RVP up top, Rooney as the number 10 with Di Maria and say Bale as the wingers we would be a far more effective attacking unit who wouldn't have quite so much possession, but would be a better team for it.

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03 May 2015 21:51:42
I think you are right about Rooney. He is best suited to the 4-2-3-1 as you described.

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03 May 2015 13:35:39
Dont forget if we blow 4th place it will also cost us millions from Adidas who were smart enough to insert a clause into the mega kit deal . i think we will lose upto £300mil

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03 May 2015 14:13:47
Personally I don't see Liverpool winning at the bridge, so assuming they drew, and won both other games, we need 3 points! Surely we can win one of the last 3 games

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03 May 2015 13:51:28
£300m in one season! I doubt that very much.

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03 May 2015 15:39:35
Its consecutive seasons starting this season (so it needs to happen next season as well).

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03 May 2015 12:59:51
Is there any update on Memphis Depay. If you believe the press Liverpool are strong favourites to sign him now. Would be a shame to miss out. Thanks

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03 May 2015 13:36:25
If we feel that we can get Bale then it wouldn't surprise me to see us not go for him. But ideally I would want Depay in the bag because he really is a prospect - perhaps they see him as Sterlings replacement.

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{Ed004's Note - I would take Bale every day of the week over Depay but if there is a chance we can't get Bale we must go all out for Depay}

03 May 2015 14:12:48
Fully agree I love Bale the lads in the top 5-6 in the world. I hope we don't go all out for Bale, fail to get him and by the time that's finished Depay has already gone! Miss out on both.

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03 May 2015 14:32:16
Why can't we have both?
Di maria isn't a winger and bale and delay on the wings would be phenomenonal.
We could sell di maria or play him as midfielder.

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03 May 2015 16:06:33
I really don't think that Bale is a luxury, I think he is a necessity, just as important as say a right back. We need more pace and goal threat going forward, we need directness.

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03 May 2015 12:35:18
I use to be Rooney''s biggest critic but he has played well in recent times. It is not his fault he keeps getting picked or played in wrong positions.

The manager needs to be making the right decisions, but sometimes even the right decisions doesn't plan out well.

We have done well this season, I certainly didn't expect us to win the league this year, we have improved our confidence and have beaten some top teams. We still lack a top defence and predicted in the beginning of the season that Chelsea will run away with league the rest are all just poor.

It took Chelsea several years to be where they are at now. We have only had 2 years of rebuilding and hAve come a long way from last year. Did people not get happy when we beat man city, Liverpool and spurs or do we just think of the negatives and disregard those wins.

With our defence which is as good as any championship defence is not going tone winning you league, we need a top defence , top midfielder that can control like matic does for Chelsea.

With teenagers in the defence and a week midfield and unreliable strikers, we have actually done well so far, we need to finish off with a place in champion's league and that will be job well done.

Next season we will have more success when players get used to their new style of play.

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{Ed004's Note - I agree with Ed 25. We are only 4 signings away from having a really good chance at the title.}

03 May 2015 12:44:10
4 GOOD signings and good sales

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03 May 2015 13:38:09
Yes, these 4 signings really need to be top notch and they need to be bought with the system in mind which for all intensive purposes seems likely to be 4-3-3. A world class centre half, defensive midfielder / deep lying playmaker, a more solid right back and ideally a world class winger. If you were to make a list it would be Clyne/Coleman, Hummels, Gundogan and Bale - anything on top of that would be a bonus.

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{Ed004's Note - The exact players we have been targeting and I think are quite likely to sign. Maybe Depay for Bale. However, Gundogan is not a defensive midfielder and has never played there before. He would replace Fellaini and it would be a midfield of Carrick, Herrera and Gundogan}

03 May 2015 14:11:10
Completely agree with all of you. We need top signings but it will take time before we start playing like the old days.

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03 May 2015 14:36:14
If we sign Gundogan and play him as DM, this would be the sort of the thing I hate about the managers.
Buy Fellaini, play him as a DM which he clearly isn't.
Buy kagawa and mata but still play Rooney at CAM.
Buy Anderson and play him DM.
Try to turn Powell as DM.
Play lingard at rb.
Why do we try to convert perfectly decent players?
Buy ADM, play him as a winger. He is a CM, play a 3 man midfield.
We should have signed a defensive midfielder long time ago.

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03 May 2015 11:40:30
Ed025 you seem like a pretty level headed and impartial guy so I was wondering what's your take on LVG and how he has done this season?

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{Ed025's Note - i think he has done pretty well JMB, he inherited a side which was pretty poor and low on confidence but has galvanized them to be an effective unit, for me united are still 4 players short of competing for honours and i dont think he is the long term answer, but he has improved you mate..

03 May 2015 12:20:39
I would agree that he has improved us but he has also cost us points through been stubborn.

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{Ed025's Note - thats a fair point herbie..

03 May 2015 12:23:24
Would you be tempted to change him if 'the long term answer' became available this Summer?

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{Ed025's Note - yes mate, if klopp, bielsa, or ancelotti was available i would go with one of them, but thats just my personal opinion..

03 May 2015 12:28:04
That's not what he wanted to hear Ed!!

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{Ed025's Note - its all about opinions betty, i dont think he has the flexibility to return united to former glories mate, but maybe thats just me..

03 May 2015 12:46:49
i agree with ed25.
on a different note lvg has said giggs will replace him i think that would be a risk

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03 May 2015 13:27:03
What Betty?

I tend to agree with everything you have said Ed025.

Jred I agree that Giggs would be a risk but I think it would all depend on how ling LVG is here for and the postion we find ourselves in. I would hope we learnt from form the Moyes saga.

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{Ed004's Note - The thing is with our rumoured targets being Gundogan, Depay, Bale etc they sound like players that would suit Klopp's system more than LvG current system.}

03 May 2015 13:41:05
Only Pep or Klopp would for me replace LVG as the long term answers, not Ancelotti. Those two could build a dynasty if given the chance and for me are the two most able managers in the world (in an attacking team).

I like what LVG has done, 80% possession is excellent with averages above 60% - but the ball is still moved very slowly and predictably and this is not the "United Way".

Klopp especially would stick two pacey wingers like Bale and Di Maria with a solid yet creative midfield and would have a clinical striker. That is his system.

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{Ed025's Note - im a big klopp fan as well fresh..

03 May 2015 13:40:25
I agree completely ED004. Fast expansive wingers who cut through the middle with diagonal runs is the Klopp way with a Gundogan type player picking passes. Counter attacking, possession football. You could throw Hummels in there as well.

I still think wherever Jurgen ends up he will raid Dortmund for Reus as he is key to his system.

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{Ed004's Note - If one of klopp's conditions is that we would have to bring Reus in then I wouldn't hold it against him}

03 May 2015 11:43:32
Beast suggested that Myhill had made but one save. To my recollection there were at least 4 decent ones including the penalty. Yes, they were saves any good goalie wold have made. We also had a few great chances: McNair's header with an open goal ahead of him, Young's delayed shot after Myhill's parry of RVP's effort, and a weak effort from Mata from the centre of the goal which was cleared off the line. Despite all the criticism of our style we had plenty opportunities to win that game. We just didn't take them.

This has been a recurrent theme of the last 3 weeks. At Chelsea Rooney missed a golden opportunity as did Fellaini at Everton. Along with the PK yesterday, each of these would normally have resulted in goals, and in all likelihood we would now be celebrating CL football next year.

It is all very reminiscent of last year. When we are playing modest opposition it is as if anxiety saps away conviction and replaces it with an expectation of failure. In this respect we have not progressed at all from the Moyes management era. The only difference between this term and last is our performances against the better teams.

As for next year one could make the argument that we need a new right back and a replacement for Carrick, but other than that the wings and forwards need replacing in entirety.

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03 May 2015 12:30:51
Shaw , you should know by now mate , never let the truth vet in the way of a good story.
1 shot on goal? ha ha

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03 May 2015 13:05:15
Will chicarito have missed these chances? Doubt it. He's the best finisher we have and we're going to sell him.

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03 May 2015 14:39:40
Agree with no midfield. Hernandez is so underrated. He would got the same amount of goals as Falcao, even more, would have still smiled and taken fraction of wages.
The players like Chicharito are very good deputies to have and ancelotti and RM have realised that.
SAF loved him too. He was a nightmare to Chelsea and Stoke :P

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03 May 2015 08:13:05
Firstly perspective Manchester United lose a game, Rio Ferdinand loses his soulmate and wife. My thoughts go out to Rio whose loss is far greater than ours.

Now a loss on its own is not reason for all the blood letting, sarcasm and chest beating however three defeats in a row is seen as a crisis. Yesterday was unacceptable and LvG needs to understand that.

The first half was like I imagine Strictly Come Dancing would be like, I don't watch it on telly and I want to watch it even less at OT. Basically lots of smooth positional movements than mean nothing, all frills and no knickers.

I have to question our lack of intent, three games zero goals and LvG has to be under pressure now. I question his decision to play rvp, who I said at the beginning of the season could be his Achilles Heel. At home to an ultra defensive team we need to score and rvp had gone last season. The decision to let him take the penalty was ridiculous, Rooney should have taken it, if scored I think we would have won.

It has made Palace a must win and frankly if I was Pardew I would sit back and let us play pretty patterns then break with the quick players. We desperately need to score first.

Finally at the moment it feels like the club is a fishing boat in very rough North Sea waters. My concern is do we have a plan? When they appointed Moyes it was appallingly handled, then we went in the direction of possession football but did Woodward and co do that with an end game of appointing Pep or was it seen that LvG would steady the ship? It is important because if LvG fails and goes there is Klopp, my favoured replacement for Moyes, yet another change in direction though and that would make me question what Woodwards strategy is. LvG started talking about a different squad next season, well that isn't going to motivate the existing players unless they think they are playing for their futures. That was not good management for me. No matter what, yesterday was not acceptable, three losses at Manchester United playing Strictly Come Dancing football is not good enough.

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{Ed025's Note - if you blow 4th place red man it will be a catastrophe mate, united cant survive without CL football, and any strides that have been made recently will go right out the window, its time for the players to step up to the plate..

03 May 2015 08:30:51
ed025

If we blow 4th, it will be seen as the biggest melt down in our history. I know we blew an 8 point lead to city a few years ago, but this will go down as even a bigger disaster given the other teams involved and their own circumstances.

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{Ed025's Note - worst of all is that it will be to liverpool mate and we will never hear the last of it...time to get to church and do some praying me thinks.. :)

03 May 2015 09:19:18
I wonder what team Mourinho will field next week against them if they end up clinching the league today. I hope he puts out a strong first 11.

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{Ed025's Note - i think he will GCU...he dislikes them more than me mate...and thats saying something!.. :)

03 May 2015 09:22:18
i still think we'll get 4th. If pool even draw at chelsea, we only need one win from the next three games. i don't think spurs and southampton have any chance. Both still have to play city. Infact if they get any points off city and we do our part,we can get 3rd.
And if we can't get three points from hull city,arsenal and crystal palace then we don't deserve CL anyways.

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{Ed025's Note - you will have to show a bit more application than you did yesterday though mate..

03 May 2015 10:33:10
Red man. Yesterday was unacceptable as you say. But if the penalty was scored then it would have been a different storey. Remember, rooney missed the last penalty he took and rvp is our penalty taker. It was one of those things.
What I find unacceptable is the amount of creative players we have on the pitch and no one wants to make the run and no one wants to make the killer pass in case they lose the ball and lvg goes mad and the crowd groan. We have to allow our creative players to flourish and play the killer balls even if only one in five succeeds. The fans have to encourage that and the manager has to insist on doing it.
I have backed lvg all along, but he's not making it easy with this type of football against a very poor wba side.
As you said,I always wanted klopp or pep to succeed fergie and now I'm thinking maybe we should be going this direction. We need the manager,the players and the fans to be brave. We are United and we have to play with our hearts firstly and our minds secondly, that's what's made us a great club.

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03 May 2015 08:03:06
ask yourself this would you play Rooney as a midfielder ahead of Schweinsteiger, Thiago, Alonso, Modric, Kroos, Xavi, Carrick, Busquets or Vidal? No because there are soooo many better midfielders out there than how Rooney can play in midfield. 

Would you play Rooney as a striker ahead of the likes of Lewandowski, Cavani, Benzema, Suarez, Costa or Aguero? Probably not as they are better and more consistent strikers than him. 

Would you play Rooney as a winger ahead of the likes of Ronaldo, Bale, Hazard ect, again no
shappy

it seems as soon as we lose a game the same people have the knives out for rooney.

well in the above post remove rooneys name and insert any of our other players.

truth is rooney has been one of our best players this year playing all over the park , but yes we should sell him ?

ps. for all the people shouting he shouldn't been in cm .
is he playing any worse than our other cm?
and whos decision is it to play him there .

lvg can do no wrong

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{Ed025's Note - some good points there jred mate..

03 May 2015 10:15:10
Jred - The answer to you question is no Rooney wouldn't play ahead of those players, you could probably treble the list.

So why is he captain of our team, England and is paid more than 95% of those players? Why is he treated like he is in the World Class bracket still when he left it 4 years ago?

It's because LVG and in turn we are desperate. So long as we rely on Rooney we will not compete at the top level again, he is not a talisman for us as you can count the number of games he has been MOTM on one hand this season, probably 2-3 games maximum.

He is a good player but he isn't a great striker and he is a lower prem level midfielder at best. Therefore we need to move him on or start to treat him like we do other players of a similar standard, bench him etc.

My personal gripe with Rooney is that when he plays in midfield he disrupts everything as well as not contributing enough personally. This is the managers fault, but until recently there were a good proportion of our supporters saying he would be a great midfielder in time. Not many of those knocking around anymore.

He doesn't do anything up front either, aside from the Preston game he has been pretty much anonymous this year up there.

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03 May 2015 10:33:27
beast
as i said you could change rooneys name for any other player in uniteds team and it would be the same.

rooney has easily been one of our best players this season if we where going to start shipping players out there would be a lot to go before rooney

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03 May 2015 10:47:12
Well done Jred, yet again you have managed to read my post and take out a couple of tiny segments to make your point and make it seem i'm saying something i'm not.

I started that post stating that the result yesterday was not Rooneys fault in the slightest. I went to to say Rooney has been a great player for us, and even said that he could still have a future at our club.

The point i was discussing with Clarity was that Rooney who will be 30 next season and is no longer world class in any position(on a regular basis, obviously he still has games where he plays to a world class level but he no longer does it every week) is not the player to rebuild our team around.

Yes he does a good job in many positions but if you build a team around a player who is merely good in the position they play in then your team will be only able to play at a good level, if you want your team to play to a world class level then you need to build your team around a world class player who is playing in his best position.

John O'Shea was good in many positions but you wouldn't build your team around him. He would drop out of the team the moment a player who could play the position better than him became available.

Should Rooney play in midfield ahead of Carrick or Herrera? No and when they are fit and able to play he doesn't, earlier in the season and yesterday RvP was played ahead of him as a striker, and although didn't score played the position better than he has at any point this season. RvP isn't world class anymore yet he played a better game as a striker than Rooney has this season tells you that Rooney is a good striker still but not a world class one.

The big argument the Rooney fan boys come out with is he can play well in many positions. And he can, there is no doubting that. But you never see any other manager of any other player asking a world class striker to play any other position other than as a striker.

If you have a world class player you don't make him play in positions other than his best, you then move other players around. For me Rooneys best position was as a wide forward in a 433 in the same kind of position that Neymar plays. The role Rooney played in 2008, with Ronaldo on the opposite flank and Tevez as the main striker. It allowed Rooney to find space and score goals, it meant he was on the ball more than as a main striker and it made use of his work rate, pace and all round ability. This is where he probably should be playing now. Where Mata plays and probably moving Mata to play more centrally.

Chelsea build their team around Hazard and as a result when the chips a re down he is still able to come up with a goal or create a chance for someone else as we found out the other week. Barcalona build around Messi and Real around Ronaldo. We need to find that player to build around. Sadly that player isn't Rooney.

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{Ed004's Note - I don't think we should sell Rooney (who could afford his wages), unless he throws a tantrum, but he should become a squad player over the next year or so. He still offers experience and leadership.}

03 May 2015 11:01:09
Yes you could Jred - but could you say the same for how all our players are treated? There is one rule for Rooney and one for everyone else (aside from Blind and RVP it seems although their injuries have hidden this bias).

I don't think he has been one of our best players this season as it happens. Although even if he has been it isn't saying much at all considering the standard.

The way Rooney is treated mirrors how our manager expects to be treated. Like an untouchable on a pedestal, but frankly delivery is rank average for the expected standard.

Basically the special treatment for Rooney is not justified and is of detriment to the team as a whole. LVG spouts the teams is bigger than the individual, but he doesn't act on that.

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03 May 2015 11:07:21
Great post Jred. And by the way, someone posts an incorrect stat and the haters lap it up. Wayne has scored 7 and assisted 2 in his last 12 games. 3 of those games he did not play as an out and out striker. But hey ho, what is fun is agenda posting through incorrect stats. True mate, the same ones usually come running to belittle our captain. Shappy, how is your better than Rooney Welbeck doing aye? 4 goals all season. Sorry, just having a little bit of fun. Rooney hasn't been great for the last 5 matches but the grass is always greener and that sort of thing. Beast even predicted Welbeck to be the leagues top scorer :)

Deeps.

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03 May 2015 11:11:49
shappy
we haven't built our team around rooney infact lvg system that you are so fond of doesn't really build around any player.
its a possesion based system where everyone has a job
was rooney worse than mata ,herrera or fellaini .
mata was poor again imo.

as soon as we lose a game you get the same people shouting sell rooney.
as i said your whole argument could apply to any one of our players .

as i have said before if we start getting rid of players there will be a few to go before rooney .
like it or not shaps he is one of our best players .

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03 May 2015 11:37:08
When Mourinho went all out to buy Rooney a couple of years ago , it was to play him as a centre forward , not in midfield or as a wide forward ( where he never looked happy )

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03 May 2015 11:49:18
Jred, Rooney is always picked because he is captain, and he is shunted around the pitch to make way for players who play the position better than him. I'm not saying Rooney is a bad player, far from it. He is a very good player. But If we are to move forward we need world class players in every position or at least great players. If you could build your dream 11 Rooney probably wouldn't start, that tells us where we should be heading with Rooney.

I think he should remain at the club, but his role should be that as the player who fills in for the great/world class players when they are injured or suspended. We should be aiming to have players who can play in midfield better than Rooney can, players who can play upfront better than Rooney can, players who can play wide or in the No.10 position better than Rooney can. But keeping Rooney to play those roles when they can't.

I agree there are many other players who should and will leave the club before Rooney does, he can still be a very valuable asset to our club. But it should be his experience and versatility that we value and not him as a first choice starter. We need better players for that.

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03 May 2015 12:05:25
shappy
he is shunted round the team because he is the best man for the job .
from the players we had available yesterday rooney needed to play cm as simple as.
as for players who play the position better we have looked a better team when rooney has played striker.
our best football has been when rvp was injured and rooney played up top.

your point about needing 11 worldclass players and rooney not making a dream 11 is stupid.
non of our out field players would .
again you could remove rooneys name from your post and add any other players.
we should maybe aim for players who can play better than young , mata rvp blind etc etc the list would go on and on.

in this present team rooney would always be one of the first names on the team sheet imo there are plenty i would replace before rooney

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03 May 2015 12:08:18
also rooney doesn't always play because he is captain .
he always plays because he is one of our best players and when fit he starts.
its one of the reasons he was made captain

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03 May 2015 13:01:23
Actually LvG has stated more than once that the captain of his teams always receives certain privileges, and he has said his captain if fit will always start.
He has made Rooney captain, now I don't completely disagree with that decision as there is a real lack of other candidates atm. But to say that Rooney will start if fit regardless doesn't bode well.

I agree that with our current group of players that Rooney should be one of the first names on the team sheet, De Gea and our defence should be picked first as you always build from the back, but I would never start him as one of a midfield two, for me he would play as either the furthest forward of the midfield three or as a striker. Failing that as a wide forward similar to the role Mata is playing.

So that puts Rooney in direct competition with Fellaini, RvP and Mata atm. Yesterday the runs and off the ball work RvP did were better than anything I've seen from Rooney when he has played as a striker this season. imo RvP was let down by his own rusty finishing(he has been out for nearly 2 months) and a lack of balls being played into him after he made those runs.
Fellaini has been in great form this season but he still isn't a traditional Manchester United player. that's not to say he isn't a good player but he lacks the finesse and vision to play against teams that park the bus. Against teams that will push further up he will be able to create havoc with his ability to bring down the long ball forcing teams to be wary of him if they push forward. But against teams that sit deep and in numbers his effect on the game is limited.
Mata playing wide is also a part time role, against certain teams it will work well, against other he will be a total bystander. We would have been better placed yesterday playing Mata in Fellaini's position and having one of Januzaj or Di Maria out wide stretching them and creating space in the middle for Rooney and Mata to work in.

I'd have had Young on the right meaning he will go wide rather than cut in, and one of Januzaj or Di Maria on the left doing the same pulling the full backs out wide isolating the CB's and creating a 3 on 2 in our favour with RvP, Rooney and Mata in the middle using the space to open them up.
By playing wide players who want to cut in allowing their full backs to come in with them meant that they had four defenders in their box and two midfielders camped just outside it making in impossible to break through.

But its easy to work these things out in hindsight.

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{Ed004's Note - The problem is everyone on this site knew how Pulis was going to set up his team to play manutd at old Trafford. There was no need for Fellaini to play yesterday and if so play him were Herrera was playing and make the other manager change his formation. Ideally Fellaini would have been holding midfielder (mainly for height at set pieces), Herrera and Mata central with Di Maria and young out wide supporting a striker. Play a high line with Smalling and McNair and press West Brom if all they want to do is sit deep. Don't give them a minutes rest}

03 May 2015 13:07:36
PFM i assume u are talking about my stat? If u took the time to read it properly you would see i said scored in 4 games not scored 4. I find that makes it a more transparent way of asessing the performance ie if a player scored 5 in one match but doesn't score for the next 7 games if u say he's scored 5 in 8 games it doesn't offer a true reflection of performance. Please do try to read things thoroughly before announcing them as incorrect. Cheers

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03 May 2015 13:18:52
shappy
he wouldn't make some one captain if he didn't think , when fit he would start .

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03 May 2015 13:30:08
Granted Jred, but if there is someone who could perform the role better and is fit then that player should play. Your captain should start most games, but not all even if fit. You need to play the best players in their best positions in order to get the right result.

Like I said i would have have had Rooney playing where he was yesterday against a team that was always going to sit deep. When everyone is fit i would probably have Rooney replacing Fellaini in the team with Carrick as the deepest midfielder and Hererra playing the box to box role. The decision should then be who plays the wider roles between Mata, Di Maria, Januzaj and Young.

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{Ed004's Note - I would like to see Rooney start on the left of a front 3 with Di Maria on the left of a midfield 3, running into the space Rooney leaves free. Would then have RVP and Rooney in the box. Possibly Fellaini as well to target}

03 May 2015 15:06:36
Jred

I know the manager puts him there but iMO he is not a good CM at all. When I have stated that him in midfield is a non starter for me it is because we end up sitting a recognised midfielder to make way for Rooney and RVP.

It just happens that Carrick is injured or it would mean that either Fellaini or herrera end up sitting. They are both better in the middle of the pitch than rooney. I am not sure if people realise this but hitting a cross field long pass is not that difficult in Football and most CM can do that. Where you separate the good ones from the average ones is how they can operate in a crowded middle of the pitch and their short passing and control and dribbling. Wayne is not good at that.

This is not about Rooney or the team being built around him but more about the managers decision to play him there. We look pretty poor every time LVG has done this and from what i have read about yesterday, it was no different.

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03 May 2015 16:15:03
gcu
we have played our best football with rooney playing up top.
i would like to think he is only playing cm due to carrick being injured.
i would play rooney ahead of rvp in this system but i have a bad feeling lvg will try to fit both into the team.

i wouldn't play rooney cm but i think he does a better job than fellaini and blind . i think blind is very average.

also with rvp and rooney on the pitch what was fellaini doing playing cf. dear me

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03 May 2015 16:21:44
While Rooney is at the club he will always start, be it CF or midfield. It's wrong, but it's true. How could a manager explain having a squad player on the wages he is on? The captain thing has complicated things further.

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03 May 2015 16:33:39
Jred

I did not see the game but every time I see the line up come out and Rooney and RVP in the starting eleven i am hoping we are playing a 442 but The manager keeps insisting on playing rooney as CM, which I think is a mistake.

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03 May 2015 18:00:39
RVP was playing CM most of the 2nd half as well GCU! Just remember any game pre Spurs and you have our performance, so no need to waste time watching the pointless, sideways/backwards passing fest.

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03 May 2015 18:10:00
gcu
fellaini cf ?
with rooney and rvp playing deep .

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03 May 2015 18:36:12
That is even more nuts Jred. I am not sure what to expect from this team at all as it feels like we can have a howler on any given week.

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03 May 2015 07:15:59
These are the type of games when you need a player like Hernandez or Nani. Both would have done a decent job for us. Nani for his trickery in the wing and Hernandez for the space he finds.
I can't think of the last time a striker had so many chances than RVP. He is a ball magnet, on another day he could have had a hat trick. Aside from the missed penalty which wasn't the worst, he was very good. He looked sharp, he cropped everywhere and looked the only one capable of scoring a goal.
Hernandez scored half of the time when we needed a goal. I still believe Hernandez to be a better player than Danny Ings.
Di Maria, when would he play CM, with the space we were afforded gmhe could played CM easily. On current form, I could see us losing against Arsenal and Palace, with Hull being the only game we could win.
The players need to stand up.

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03 May 2015 06:44:50
Rooney in midfield just does not work, not his fault because at the end of the day its the manager who puts him there.
LVG is still making schoolboy errors in his decisions, very frustrating at this level.
Over reliant on a 34 year old Carrick, shocking.

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03 May 2015 06:29:08
Well missed the game due to an engagement was quiet frankly shocked to see the result once i got home. Can't comment until i see the replay but we are now putting ourselves under enormous pressure to win games and letting everyone back in. Unbelievable how we have not just put this thing to bed yet.

Do not want to go to hull last game of the season or Arsenal at home needing a win.

We are mystery and quite disappointing to be at this stage and still looking for the right formula with the season almost over.

My only comment which i have made in the past is Wayne Rooney in midfield for me is a disaster and not sure what that achieves. The injuries in a way forced the managers hand to play a certain way but seems like we are reverting back to the same old thing.

Finally, why not let wayne take the penalty as RVP just got back.

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03 May 2015 07:07:15
Forgot to say don't be shocked if we drop a 4th loss on the bounce at Palace next week especially if Carrick does not play. We seem completely lost without him. I believe both our 6 game winning streaks have been with him coming back from injury and starting.

I can only hope we go with one striker at palace and play people in their right positions.

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{Ed025's Note - its only when carrick is missing that a lot of you appreciate him GCU, people are lauding up these imports like blind, herrera and ADM but your best midfielder is carrick mate, you know what they say...there is none so blind as those who dont want to see..

03 May 2015 07:26:07
To be fair Ed25 a lot of us on here have said for a long time that Carrick is a top player, he does the simple but effective things that a lot of people don't notice.
We sure as hell are missing him which goes to show that we still have a lot of work to do on this squad.

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{Ed025's Note - you do herbie, but like every other supporters you crave instant success mate, so these quick fixes are now an integral part of the game, gone are the days of building a side..sadly..

03 May 2015 08:26:00
Ed025

I have said Carrick is a top player for 4 years and never once joined any of the chorus, who criticised him for being too slow and taking too long on the ball which, is don't agree with anyway. Most of the time he takes his time on the ball is because none is available or in the right area.

I think our wing play with the exception of young is non existent and the right side is very poor with Valencia. Dimaria on the left has been so so poor and Janusaj has gone backwards this year. Hard to break teams down if you have little threat from both wings.

Needless to say a terrible result for a team trying to wrap up a CL placing. It was the easiest of our 4 remaining fixtures.

We lack a creative midfielder in the Mold of Modric/Pjanic when Carrick does not play, who can sit there and find those telling passes.

On another note watched Cleverly yesterday and although he scored, can not believe how average he is. So so poor and lucky boy to be on the kind of money he is for doing the most basic things. No bottle at all never tries a telling pass or takes anyone on.

I can see a big overhaul this summer as it looks like one step forward and 2 backwards.

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{Ed025's Note - the bad news for me GCU is that martinez is a massive fan of cleverley, he could well be in an everton shirt next season..how about you take clevs back and we get carrick?.. :)

03 May 2015 09:18:04
LOL

No thanks i think he is so average you can have him. BTW you guys were rubbish yesterday. Watched the first 45 minutes and then had to go out but you were fortunate to be only 2 down.

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{Ed025's Note - tell me about it mate....we are that bad that we are thinking of asking moyes to come back.. :)

03 May 2015 10:37:08
We have a very good player in pereira who would have done an excellent job yesterday and we should have left rooney up top and rvp on the bench.
This is worrying as as soon as rvp is fit, he plays. That's not right. Lvg made totally the wrong call there.

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03 May 2015 11:13:32
Nomid - RVP looked far more threatening than Rooney has upfront imo. I would have benched Rooney, or maybe Fellaini and changed the formation to 4-4-2, so we could get at their wide men and have options in the box.

Sticking with this 4-3-3 is naïve against teams that are going to camp.

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03 May 2015 11:25:20
Good point regards 4-3-3 Beast, we was crying out for wide players yesterday.

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03 May 2015 01:56:33
Why is everyone having a go at our dear leader LVG? Yes we had three sub par games. Yes they were a little boring. Yes we have zero points from nine and yes we have no plan B.

But we can't be blaming the great LVG. He is a masterful tactictian in the dugout. Motivational and the players are obviously enjoying playing for him as it means they don't have to think and make their own decisions. Actually if any of us had spoke to LVG just after the warm up he would have told us straight we weren't going to win today as he is an oracle of footballing intelligence.

All I'm saying lads is get off LVG's back. The guy is a genius and even if we are inconsistent, predictable and mundane at the moment the gaffer will bring in a few £60million players this summer to sit on the bench to intimidate our opponents next year. So what if didn't win today? Who cares? What's important is we had possession right?

Finally a big shout out to the Scousers for letting Luis Suarez leave and replacing him with total dross. That decision by the Liverpool footy club has ultimately propelled us into the top 4 this season. Praise the lord of luck.

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03 May 2015 00:55:34
Had a problem finishing last post. As i was saying gundogan would be a good signing and is a long term replacement for carrick. I still feel we need a midfield box to box man with strength speed and abilty to create and score goals.


Depay for me is a must. He has pace skill and a good delivery. I think he would be perfect for us.

Finally i think we need a striker with pace who can score 25 plus goals a season.

The need for pace is clear to see and we need players with pace,skill and the ability to open teams up . Pointless possession is no good. I honestly think we are unbalanced and with the correct additions we could challenge domestically.

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03 May 2015 01:55:21
The 3 games we have lost we have scored 0 goals our best striker is playing cdm,

I have been a lvg fan all season but the past 3 games have really wound me up we have other players to play cdm other than rooney,

Why not play 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 rooney is wasted in midfiled and lvg is the reason we are once again battling it out for top 4, we now need to win our next 2 games both very difficukt, we should have wrapt top 4 up by now.

We now need city to win tomorrow and chelsea to beat liverpool next week otherwise its going to be a nervy last 3 games epecially if we draw against palace and lose against arsenal we could potentially be 5th by the time we play hull(if the worst results happen).


We need to play much faster and stop doing pointless passes back and sideways, I understand its hard to play againt 10 men behind the ball but our plan b isn't working, lobbing the ball into the box is a waste of time.

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03 May 2015 02:11:50
SPB in all honestly you have kept your views of LVG as positive as possible this season but can you really say you would be at ease with us mounting a title challenge and trying to push on in the CL next season with him in charge? The way we are going at the moment (very predictable) the CL qualifying round is worrisome.

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{Ed007's Note - Ronny Deila's gunning for Utd's CL spot...

03 May 2015 03:24:59
Prior to the last 3 games rooney has played as a striker in 12 games, he's scored in 4 of those 12 (including maybe 3 penalties). rooney not playing up front is not the problem, carrick being injured is the problem along with just accommodating rooney because he's the captain in a position he's even less effective in which affects the whole shape of the team.

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03 May 2015 11:43:07
jmb, i like lvg and how his teams play, i do believe we will still get 4th but there is work to be done in order to challenge next season.

we did have our chances yesterday rvp missed a pen(why rooney didn't take it?), mcnair header but the amount of bodies that were in the box for westbrom was a joke, but its down to us to try and break them, that's where i feel we are struggling atm, against teams who park the bus.


that's why the summer is going to be very important on who we buy.

but if all goes well in the window and we get the right players i have every faith in lvg, that we can mount a challenge because teams are not creating many chances against us and i never feel worried that we are going to concede,

clarity- rooney offers more up front than are other strikers, he makes the space for the players behind to make the runs and putting rooney upfront has proved that is more effective, he is our best striker.

but i do agree carrick has been sorely missed.

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03 May 2015 02:35:59
I think Ronnie Delia will have his hands full with Stu McCall gunning for Celtics SPL spot 007!

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{Ed007's Note - Hahahaha (rofl) That didn't half cheer me up on this wet and miserable Sunday. Finishing 3rd in the Scottish second division isn't too bad for a club that only started up 3 yrs ago and has the second highest wage bill in Scotland.}

03 May 2015 00:54:43
NoCarrick=Nomidfield

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03 May 2015 00:35:29
We should know by now teams like wba will come and park the bus hoping to score from a free kick or set piece. We have encountered this on numerous occasions yet are still unable to find the solution. I have had lvgs back this season but he does make strange decisions like playing rvp and wazza in midfield. A player like fellaini dictates the way in which you play and it has to be altered to suit him and that would be fine if he was messi or ronlado.

We have now made it a race with 3 defeats in a row when we should be out of sight and are only still in pole position due to liverpool not capitalising. The team still needs a good few additions. I can only call it as I see it.
We lack speed/pace and the penetration to cut through team that you need in the premier league against teams that set up as wba did.
I hate to single players out but i have to be honest as a fan who wants to see the best players possible.

Valencia ironically has pace but he is not good enough to play right back or right wing. He has concentration lapses and is constantly caught out of position leading to us losing points or goals. He works hard but his crossing and delivery is not good enough. New right back needed because lvg never plays rafael. Clyne is rumoured and may be a good choice as he knows the league is now an international and is quick strong and able to link well with the wide players.

Mc nair worries me when he plays and whilst he may excel bringing the ball out of defence I don't see him an answer in the back four. Smalling has been one of our better performers of late and jones needs to improve and reach his potential. Evans I would move on and young tyler I would loan out.
We need at least one centre back if not two I know hummels is mentioned although i am not a fan. I think he lacks pace gets caught up the field a lot and takes one too many needless risks. I would go for garay,otamendi or varane.



We need a midfielder we are so reliant on carrick and look lost when he's absent. Gundogan would be w

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02 May 2015 23:46:21
Last 3 games
71.8% possession
678 final third passes
15-58 shots on target
Zero goals
Just not good enough up front

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02 May 2015 23:46:21
Last 3 games
71.8% possession
678 final third passes
15-58 shots on target
Zero goals
Just not good enough up front

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03 May 2015 00:38:22
We definitely need an overhaul in the striker department.

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03 May 2015 01:25:09
all 3 rooney has played in midfield, lvg needs to stop being such a dick and play people where they are best suited other wise we will miss out on top 4, we now need chelsea to do us a favour n beat liverpool

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03 May 2015 02:21:08
Spb,

Do we? Last I checked we are 4 points ahead with 3 games left, it's all in our own hands.

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03 May 2015 09:06:29
We have 4th lol, it's sad all round that that is seen as progress for us but Rome wernt built in a day!

36 hours I've been awake now and can't even fall alseep to match of the day

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03 May 2015 11:48:33
i have very supportive of lvg, but GDS2 you have got to admit playing rooney in midfiled isn't working? the past 3 games have proved that,

and its all well saying its in our own hands but if we continue to play like the previous 3 games we aren't scoring goals, if you don't score you don't win games.

and just for arguments sake liverpool beat chelsea(who may already be champs) and we draw away at palace that's 2 points infront and we have arsenal and hull away are you so certain 4th is wrapped up still?

and from last year chris 4th is progress considering

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03 May 2015 13:14:13
Spb,

I never said 4th is wrapped up. We had the chances yesterday and didn't take them, if we had it would have been 5-1 and then what would people be saying? So what's to say next week we won't do that, it's not like we got battered like last season against west brom where they were the better team.

You can say what if so what if we lose all 3 and liverpool win all 3 then yes obviously we won't finish top 4, but that's very unlikely.

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03 May 2015 18:09:05
well we wouldbt be united if we didn't do things the hard way.

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