Manchester United Banter Archive November 03 2017

 

Use our rumours form to send us manchester united transfer rumours.


03 Nov 2017 23:23:33
We have won more in the last two years than Spurs have in the last 25,Liverpool in the last decade, and as much as City have managed since Roberto Mancini

And that's with a manager that some on here would swap and whom can't wait fir our next new shiny manager.

Yes it would be nice to be scori g 3 and conceding 1 every game and winnjng it all but realistically its winning first, aesthetics second.

Believable9 Unbelievable7

04 Nov 2017 00:25:05
We're you saying the same after LvG lifted the fa cup?

Agree6 Disagree1

04 Nov 2017 00:55:19
People were moaning when we were scoring 4 and conceding Nil. We hadn't played any good teams.

Some people just don't like Jose and it doesn't matter what he does, or what he wins, it Won't be 4-4-2 In the 90's when footballing perfection was achieved.

Agree7 Disagree0

04 Nov 2017 05:56:51
That is the whole bloody point. Its the "unliking of Jose" that stems the discusiion here. There needs to be something to moan about. When we are winning, pick on the style and moan about entertainment. People are just sad.

Agree6 Disagree5

04 Nov 2017 07:10:37
Correct shan.

Agree5 Disagree5

04 Nov 2017 08:21:57
It's just boring isn't it lads the way some behave you would think that we wasn't in the middle of our best start to a season for years.

Most of the less than inspiring performances have neatly coincided with us being without our best player yet we have held it together aside from the Huddersfield blip and shown grit, determination and character when needed.

Take away the other so called great sides players and see how they do, would the all conquering city have won as many games without de bruyne? Would spurs even be in the top half without kane?

I'm not Mourinho biggest fan never have been tbh he sometimes really gets on my tits with his moaning but I'm very grateful he has our club back on track and winning stuff again and if that means a few lacklustre performances that we still come out of with points I'm happy to accept it.

Agree3 Disagree0

04 Nov 2017 09:24:40
Personally I'm okay with the Mourinho appointment and him staying as manager. My only criticism is how he set up against Liverpool. Didn't think it was necessary. Far too defensive and thought we should have had a go as they were there for the taking. I'm not too fussed about the games not being so good to watch. I think in time that will come.

Agree3 Disagree0

04 Nov 2017 09:31:18
I agree season has started well with one blip only. Keep up the good work fellas. I, for one, like seeing United win.

Agree1 Disagree0

04 Nov 2017 09:35:57
I think too much is being made of this. No one is asking for Jose to go or anything, just a few people are highlighting that at times, his football is very defensive. I think fans would prefer for us to go out and attack teams. But as has been pointed out, we expected this when he was appointed.

Apologies if we don't all have a mourinho poster on our bedroom walls with a box of Kleenex at the ready on our bedside tables.

Agree6 Disagree1

04 Nov 2017 09:37:15
Yeah we could have set up more adventurous against Liverpool we also could have lost against Liverpool personally I would rather jump off a cliff than ever see that bunch beat us so I'm completely over it and I would be perfectly happy if were crap tomorrow and come away with the points .

When we are champions again maybe we can afford to be a bit more cavalier but this year we must win at all costs and I'm down with that I understand it.

Agree4 Disagree0

04 Nov 2017 09:50:58
If Lukaku burries that chance against Mignolet, we win 1-0 and Jose's plan worked. Similar to Spurs.

Agree2 Disagree3

04 Nov 2017 09:55:23
Deano - We could have lost against Liverpool playing the way we did. They had good chances which they squandered. It's not as though we parked the bus and gave them no opportunities, we parked the bus and they had chances they failed to take.

Agree1 Disagree0

04 Nov 2017 10:16:55
I can only remember them having one decent chance Syd the same as us .

Agree0 Disagree0

04 Nov 2017 10:21:36
Shan - Our set up against Spurs and Liverpool were completely different. Against Liverpool we didn't play and just put 11 men behind the ball, against Spurs we gave them a game and attacked.

Completely different games. Completely different set ups.

Agree3 Disagree0

04 Nov 2017 10:29:20
Not true Deano. They had a few and they breached our area a lot and ball put across our six yard box a couple times with our defenders flapping. Of course these occasions aren't documented in game stats.

Anyway we should move on from the Liverpool game. It wasn't great from us, but it's gone now. We stopped them from reducing our gap by 3 points. (only good thing from that game) .

Agree0 Disagree0

04 Nov 2017 10:32:41
There has been folk on here asking jose to leave and they can't wait to see the back of him.

Agree0 Disagree0

04 Nov 2017 10:35:53
I want us to approach the game against the top sides like we did against Spurs, not Liverpool. If we went into the game against Liverpool playing like we did against Spurs, I genuinely believe we would have beaten them. At worst a draw. Maybe Bailly getting injured prevented Jose from playing like the way we did against Spurs? I hope that's the case. Bailly fit would have meant three at the back. I just think Liverpool were there for the taking. We actually made them look good when they are not that good.

Agree1 Disagree0

04 Nov 2017 10:41:19
The set up was similar in both games we just played better in spurs games and got the goal .
Ali had a better chance than any of the Liverpool ones but thankfully didn't take it .

Agree3 Disagree0

04 Nov 2017 11:01:46
It was similar in the sense that in every game a team defends and attacks, that's where the similarity ends. We attacked against Spurs in numbers, from the start. Two completely different approaches and two different outcomes. How we played against Spurs is how we always play under Jose, against Liverpool was put 11 behind the ball and protect a draw. Embarrassing. How can you nick a goal when you commit two players in an attack against 7 Liverpool players. Two completely different approaches. Hence the criticism worldwide.

Agree0 Disagree3

04 Nov 2017 11:11:13
Anyway let's hope we see some football against Chelsea, this is another game I believe we can win. A game I believe we should attack in numbers also. We can defend well and attack too, we seen it against Spurs.

Agree0 Disagree0

04 Nov 2017 11:38:21
If Ali had scored and martial hadn't all the same people would be saying the same things .
Amazing how goals and results change people's perspective.

Agree1 Disagree0

04 Nov 2017 11:47:05
Not true Jred, we were watching the game and commenting on it live. It was a much better performance throughout and game plan was much more positive, irrespective of result.

Anyway it doesn't matter now. You expected a win against Liverpool, how do you see tomorrow playing out? I think we can win this one personally. And it may be Conte's final game if we win.

Agree0 Disagree0

04 Nov 2017 12:01:05
Syd
Big game United are capable of beating anyone on there day but so are Chelsea.

The players played better against spurs shame they where so poor against the scouse.

Agree0 Disagree0

04 Nov 2017 12:32:41
Lukaku has struggled lately, I think losing Pogba has had a bigger effect than we have realised. We were lucky to have Fellaini on amazing form, then he gets injured. I think we will see a refreshed MU when Pogba, Fellaini (if stays) and Ibra return. I mean confidence alone we will feel stronger with these characters in the side. Big characters physically and mentally.

Agree0 Disagree0

03 Nov 2017 17:14:31
Me and a mate were having a discussion the other day about Jose's flirtation with PSG.

Other than PSG which I think would be a good fit for Jose (a team that is so superior in their league that you can win at a canter and focus on the UCL), but beyond that where is he to go in club football?

He has probably well and truly burned his bridges at Chelsea, City probably wouldn't hire him, nor would Arsenal. Would he go to Liverpool? They probably wouldn't take him now he has managed us, and after his run ins with Rafa I don't think the Liverpool faithful would have been too pleased with him before he managed us. Real won't have him back and Barcelona certainly wouldn't hire him, so that rules out Spain and top clubs in England. Would he go back to Italy? from what I heard he didn't enjoy his time much in Italy and he has burned his bridges at Inter. I don't see Bayern looking at Jose, he just doesn't fit the kind of managers they go for. Besides I think its obvious they have their eye on Julian Nagelsmann as a long term option. How soon they choose to go for him could be the question. Which only leaves PSG as an option for a top club in one of Europe's top five leagues. I don't see him going back to manage in Portugal. So for Jose it might be PSG or bust when he eventually parts ways with ourselves.

Or is it, with the looming international break a thought crossed my mind, would Jose make a good international manager? His pragmatic style and his history with cup competitions is excellent, I think he has won at least one cup in every year of his managerial career. If not then it certainly feels like he has, when at Chelsea he would win the league cup or FA cup nearly every year. He has won 12 cups, to his 9 league titles. That isn't including his 5 community shield or equivalents he has won as well. If you include those as knock out cup competitions then he has won 17 cups. Personally I don't count them, but either way his style certainly seems to pay off in knock out cup competitions. So from that point of view international football should suit him well. Where he might struggle is with him being a control freak how would he feel about not managing his players on a day to day basis.

It might be something he will have to get used to if he wants to extend his career too much further.

Believable7 Unbelievable0

03 Nov 2017 19:18:01
Have had this discussion before and i had him. down at some point as portugal manager.

But i tbought italy before that.

Agree0 Disagree0

03 Nov 2017 19:33:31
I think it will be PSG although I wouldn’t be surprised if they went for Potch, also I can see Bayern being ideal for Mourinho before pep their team was huge and althletic.

Agree0 Disagree0

03 Nov 2017 19:57:39
England is and option but Perez has said he would like him back at Madrid.

Agree0 Disagree0

03 Nov 2017 20:13:33
He bigs up his time at inter a lot as well left on good terms if I remember rightly, was It not moratti who let slip he was off to United.
England job would be prefect for him tho.

Agree0 Disagree0

03 Nov 2017 20:30:47
Would you guys like him as rngland manager?

Some fans only want an english manager but we have limited choice if that's how we look at it.

Id like to see him as england manager.

Agree0 Disagree0

03 Nov 2017 21:25:40
Rewz, I worry that Pochettino will end up at PSG. Although they really want that elusive UCL win. In that regard Jose is probably a better bet, he certainly has the track record.

Jred, I thought Inter looked into taking legal action when Jose left. I also think Jose likes to keep mentioning his achievements at Inter as it was probably his biggest achievement.

I would like to see Jose as England manager at some point. I think he would do well at it.

Agree4 Disagree0

03 Nov 2017 22:54:52
Shaps
They kissed and made up it was after Jose had dinner with moratti that it was let slip he was off to united .
Moratti has spoke in glowing terms of Jose and vice versa . Very Italian coach imo
Also England would be the typical underdog type team for Jose it's perfect for him.

Agree0 Disagree0

04 Nov 2017 07:08:42
If Jose keeps winning, and if he perhaps lightens up a little then there will be no shortage of top clubs happy to take him when he wants to move on.

Agree0 Disagree0

04 Nov 2017 09:28:53
I think the worry is who succeeds Jose. Not many contenders around. Everyone says Poch but I can't see it myself.

Agree0 Disagree0

04 Nov 2017 11:03:26
I like the Monaco manager as well.

Agree0 Disagree0

Liverpool FC u23's - The 'wonder-kids' & The 'maybes'

03 Nov 2017 14:25:09
{Ed's Note - we have posted a new article entitled, Liverpool FC u23's - The 'wonder-kids' & The 'maybes'

Believable0 Unbelievable1

03 Nov 2017 11:52:23
Welsh Red Devil makes a point about our style of play and suggests that people must have forgotten the 70s and 80s. Not at all mate.

Tommy Docherty knew how to play, young pacey wingers and a direct style. He was building something and it was an indiscretion that saw him leave before he could take us to the next level.

We then had the Sexton years which were dire, I sat through them and it was pretty painful stuff.

On to Atkinson who also liked wingers and also played a direct entertaining style for the most part. He seemed to be on the way to success but after a fantastic start we finished third and it was downhill the following season before he was sacked.

And then SAF. A couple of difficult years whilst he bought and sold, chopped and changed, restructured the youth before we finally set on 2 wide players and an attacking style. Everyone seems to suggest that "SAF didn't always entertain" which is true but for the most part he did, and he sought to build teams that did, it was part of his understanding of United

So, other than Sexton we have had Managers since 1975 whose first instinct was to entertain and they key point here is that this isn't Jose's first instinct. I'm not trying to diss him as he has been very successful and pre international break we were playing pretty well although possibly flattering to deceive a little.

I have seen comments that winning is all that matters and I completely disagree. If we turn into a boring team that grinds out result after result to win a trophy (as in under LVG) then I am not interested, that is not the United way. I get there are odd games we need to do it, or team selection may dictate it occasionally but for the most part our approach should be to make the opposition worry about us. That is what we have done since Sir Matt, with only the odd interruption. When LVG was in charge there were a few games I simply didn't watch; the football was painful, I had other things to do and I just wasn't prepared to sit through another shocker of a game. Don't give me the 'support your team whatever' line. Of course I support them, always have and always will but the LVG years were dreadful.

It remains to be seen if Jose will 'let the horses run free' often enough. Perhaps when he feels he has the players he wants we will do it but other than a short spell at Chelsea he has been pragmatic for the most part. You pays your money, you makes your choice but here's the question: does anyone think we would have attacked Real the way Spurs did this week? Me neither.

Believable3 Unbelievable6

03 Nov 2017 12:10:22
You make some good points Tony, my post wasn’t an attack on any one supporter but to remind people that tho it may not be the attack attack attack of a Fergie it is far from as bad as we have seen, Sexton you point out, LVG of course but my point is that Jose’s job is to win, get us back to the top competing at the highest level, he was brought into do that and he has and is, so I find it hard to say it’s not good enough when we have sat thru some recent painful years and have had eras playing some dire stuff, much worse than now and when actually we are playing quite well other than Liverpool away onward and that ‘blip’ we had.
Spurs v Real yes was good stuff from Spurs, in the Prem against us, or without Kane, not so much, so it does basically boil down to style or substance then and who likes one without the other cz obvs we would all like the ideal of both, but ask an arsenal fan who play great footy but come nowhere every year if they are happy with that, I’d think not.
I get what your saying it’s a tradition and I loved the Fergie years, brought up on videos of best law and Charlton but it is a competition and so we’ve got to be competing so until we come across someone to do that with both ideals we have a successful Jose.
My other point is when we get a manager in who plays the way we all want, will he be given time to build and have our patience while he does so, I hope so but recent history suggests managers even at a club like ours don't seem to be given that luxury.

Agree2 Disagree0

03 Nov 2017 12:57:38
Jose won't change we are not going to play the free flowing footy of barce or city .
It will be the tactical organised maybe even methodical footy we saw from Jose Chelsea teams .
It can be good to watch but it has its own style, his Madrid team scored goal but it was organised.

Rule 1 don't conced .

Agree2 Disagree1

03 Nov 2017 13:29:54
Rule 2 - sod the history, ethos of the club and the reason you get the exposure/ money you do.

We are where we are now because the game has gone global and we had "entertainment" written all over us during the key time of football's global PR growth. A generation ago it was different and the points AJH and WRD make are valid imo, however the game is different now. We are spending world record amounts of money on talent from all over the world. We have dominated the best league in the world for 20 years - so our current entertainment value can not possibly be compared to 70's/ 80's football. It was a working class game back then, passion, excitement but yes poor football now it is more like a choreographed boring opera. If I want to be bored I have other things I'd rather do.

We are closer to the 70's/ 80's football than we are to the 90's/ 00's football - that is a travesty considering the investment and learnings we should have taken over the recent past. We had a massive head start on our rivals, we are now going backwards. I like AJH find myself less bothered about games, I used to stay up all night if overseas to watch us, I would plan flights around the time we kicked off, meetings, everything was based on what time Utd were playing. Now I don't lose sleep if I miss a game, as I can pretty much copy and paste the match report every week. Been the same since SAF left.

Winning is great, but there always has to be a winner by default - you can be the best of a bad bunch. Winning in style is special, and frankly we look like doing neither at the moment.

I'm looking forward to the next manager coming in already, I just hope that we make the correct decision next time factoring in the main reason why we have hundreds of million to spend on players every summer - Man Utd stood for excitement, it now stands for something a whole lot different in my book. Most fans wouldn't want Jose gone because they think he will bring us success, or they have some sort of degree in football restructuring and the impact on clubs (show me proof frequently changing a manager is bad for a club) . We should be more ruthless in the boardroom, on the pitch and our fans should care more about what we stand for rather than a remote chance we win the league playing dull stuff.

Agree3 Disagree6

03 Nov 2017 13:31:27
Good post Tony.

Agreed Jred, 1st rule is not to concede. From that we hopefully can nick a goal or two, maybe more.

Agree0 Disagree0

03 Nov 2017 14:27:03
The Docherty team played fantastic football and was highly entertaining. I firmly believe that United would've won the league under Docherty if he hadn't been sacked for his affair.
Moyes, LVG and Mourinho all play cautious football which is totally alien to our club. I think there is a balance between entertaining football and cautious football. Mourinho is on the wrong side of cautious. Pochettino has the best balance at Spurs. Entertaining but very solid defensively.
I yearn for someone like Pochettino to take over and actually return the club back to its values.

Agree2 Disagree2

03 Nov 2017 14:28:13
Beast
Jose won't change, it's his style and while I don't think it's the greatest football in the world to watch it's not the worse or anywhere near as bad as you like to make out .
Won 11 drew 2 lost 1 
Scored 37 conceded 6 .  
It's no where near as dull as you make out .
For the vast majority of the season we have been good .


Fergy had spells of poor football Barcelona took apart a very good United team playing a brand of football fergy never matched.

Just my own opinion but I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as you make out .
I also enjoyed the spurs game for example .

I agree 100% it shouldn't be all about winning LVG got sacked after winning the fa cup and many on here wanted him gone because of his style of footy .
But there is a middle ground, some of the football under fergy was great but he could and did grind out a lot of results especially in Europe. He said him self he change his philosophy after getting knocked out by Madrid in 2000 (I think) in what was 2 very entertaining games . We where never as gung ho after that .

Agree1 Disagree1

03 Nov 2017 14:44:31
I think there is another part to this that people are missing or doesn't seem to have been mentioned, the difference in style depending on the quality of the opponent. Go back and watch United games under Fergie against the top teams at the time, plenty of hard fought 1-0 wins, plenty of games where we played tactically, but obviously also lots of games where we smashed much inferior teams to pieces.

These days the inferior teams are not as bad as they used to be so it is not easy, but we are still seeing us do that. We are in the middle of a tricky run of fixtures and we are playing without our best midfielder, some people seem to be ignoring that, Herrera and Miki have been poor since Pogba got injured and Fellaini was in the best form of his united career before the last international break cut him down.

I also think winning has to come first, results breed confidence, we are 37 games unbeaten at home and you can see the confidence and belief that they will not lose at home when we play. Martial and Rashford at their best are getting me off my seat every week at OT. The confidence then allows a team to play with more freedom and the belief you will win from any position then allows the more exciting play.

Beast, we have not dominated the best league in the world for 20 years, we have won it once in the last 6 and that was 4 years ago, we are rebuilding and results have to come before performances, even if both is the ideal for everybody.

Agree5 Disagree1

03 Nov 2017 15:28:59
Some really good points being made. I don think we are as bad as Be
East makes out, I enjoyed our games pre intl break but I do think some of the score line should flattered us. However, we were creating chances so the play was much better than last year.

Good point from Schmid, cautious football is alien to our club and it remains to be seen how cautious Jose will be. He set up positively for Spurs but we were at home and we have scored plenty in the early games so who knows?

GDS is spot on, I don't think we can get Pogba back quick enough, he was starting to look the real deal before his pull.

I'm currently on the fence probably because of my antithapy towards Jose as an individual and his grating public persona. However, I will never accept that winning is everything or the only thing that matters.

Agree1 Disagree2

03 Nov 2017 16:32:26
GDS problem with the whole fergie did it too logic is fergie never set out to get a draw, we always started the game with let's win this match attitude, with mourinho i know that there will be 4-5 games of the 38 where we will set out to not lose rather than win. That is not the utd way however much you may bring SAF or Sexton or whoever. Last season against liverpool we had no injuries to pogba or anybody what the excuse then to not even try, it was worse against city and arsenal. Pogba's injury had little to do with the Liverpool tactics this season, that is on mourinho refusing to even consider attacking his top 4 rivals away from home.

Agree3 Disagree2

03 Nov 2017 17:08:02
Mourinho is much more pragmatic than Fergie. Substance over style when it's a big game.

We knew what we were getting when mourinho signed on. And to be honest you'd swear we haven't ever played well. Only behind city in terms of goals.

Agree1 Disagree0

03 Nov 2017 19:32:22
Priority to win or play with style? Sexton's last six games before he was sacked were all wins!

Agree0 Disagree0

04 Nov 2017 01:24:27
Good debate lads, but I think too many people are looking at the goals tally and automatically think we must be playing well. Goals can be an indicator for sure, but most of those goals were scored in blitzes, our actual performance in games has been remarkably stable and similar, even if we draw 0-0 or win 4-0. The games we have hammered teams we have been clinical or lucky in front of goal, the games we drew or scored few we were not clinical or unlucky in front of goal - what happened before those micro-seconds was same same.

Our build up play, style of play and team structure (defence first) has been remarkably similar, we have much less of the ball now as well - that is what Jose brings to the table, but it also means if you don't like what you see one game there is a strong chance you won't like what you see for almost every game. I hate what I see most games because I know we are capable of so much more.

How about stop protecting our defence (that we have invested heavily in) and start testing the opposition defence. We treat most half decent teams like we are inferior, it doesn't sit right with me, especially as that complex is hard to shake when we play teams like Huddersfield or Stoke for example.

I'll be glad when he takes over England after Southgate. Our expectations for England are so low it is perfect for him and frankly watching England is like watching Utd, so most of our fans will love watching us beat Andorra 4-0 and then parking the bus against Slovenia hoping Kane nicks a goal. At least then we might get our Man Utd back, the real one that dazzzled and had us on the edge of our seats. Wasted opportunity this period in our history.

Agree1 Disagree1

04 Nov 2017 09:24:14
Can some of you who advocate winning at all costs and sod the entertainment explain to me why you spend time and money watching football and following a football club? What do you get out of it?

Agree3 Disagree0

03 Nov 2017 05:10:05
Hello,

Do any of the Eds have any infoif Jose is really thinking about bringing andreas pereira back?

Thanks!

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - I am not aware of any firm plans to take him back to Manchester in January - but there is provision to do so.}

03 Nov 2017 10:18:41
Thanks for the reply Ed. By the looks of Jose's latest press conference Pogba could be back soon, possible even for the trip to the bridge.

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed002's Note - I would think after the international break is more likely.}

Midfielders - Part 3

03 Nov 2017 03:40:53
{Ed's Note - we have posted a new article entitled, Midfielders - Part 3

Believable0 Unbelievable0