Manchester United Banter Archive August 04 2014

04 Aug 2014 22:33:01
It seems nobody really knows who lvg wants to sign. We are linked to more players than any team and most of it is paper talk to be honest. I think we all know players need to be brought it but I also think they must be the right ones for the club and the coach and his system. Di maria and cavani excellent players but not what we need and I struggle to see how they would of fit the system. We clearly have too many similar players whilst lacking in other areas hence lvg saying the team was not balanced. I would love to know who our targets and back up targets are and the positions we will strengthen in the window. Having brought shaw and Herrera in for around 60 million I think we may see two more players for probably another 60 million and I will guess Vidal or turan and vermaelen. I see cuardado has been linked and I do think he would be a great fit at wingback but getting him will be expensive and difficult. I feel confident with lvg in charge and think he will get the players to perform and Ashley young and his recent performances show what lvg can do. I had almost given up on young as he had not played well enough for ages but fairplay to him for getting back in the team and working hard to impress. Mata I think will be the star man this year and I think Phil Jones may just come of age this season. Rooney also looks trim and I think he will have a great year under lvg. Considering the season is very close now I would hope signings would be made this week but probably unlikely. My personal hope would be to get rid of nani and Anderson and fellaini and bring in Vidal, blind and hummels and if that was not possible why not go for cuardado vermaelen and Carvalho. To get top four I think we need at least two maybe three players. What do my fellow fans think? Also we have numbers 7, 9, 11, 3, numbers vacant and it would be strange to start the season like this. I would give adnan giggs shirt just my opinion. I will be at the Swansea game will there be any new signings that day?+

I agree with all of that post and after watching the tour I believe the new system suits our better players and the under performing better players for last few seasons look more suited to the new system? I think 2 more players would put us up there with the favourites for the league? Centre back hummels is the no1 choice for me he would lead the 3 at back and bring on jones smalling and blacket and jones to challenge hummels? Vermealen would b a good back up option? Midfield looks better already with ander who likes the ball and makes good plays? Fletch has been a welcome surprise but last night showed the amount of quick games caught up with him and his passing let him down (to be expected) I think Vidal would make a huge impact in our new system and there are others that would fit but Vidal is a must and will take the move in his stride? That would b just four Summer signings that with our youth looking like they may b given a chance and finally getting rid of players who have failed to make the step up like nani Anderson and I hate to say it kags we will b starting the new era armed with a new system with players who can excel in it? P.s Chico is a hard one because he's class n we love him but he's too good to let go but not good enough to start? I hope he stays.

04 Aug 2014 18:54:17
I read that Southampton are apparently looking to take our youngster Demitri Mitchell on loan and it made me look back at something I posted on here in 2012

27 Sep 2012
"Remember that name Dimitri Mitchell, many kids fall away after starring at that level I remember John Curtis as an exampe but keep an eye out for Mitchell, he definitely has potential"

"Anyone see the goal scored by Dimitri Mitchell for England schoolboys. I don't think I have seen his name on here but looks a little like a very young John Barnes, nice balance "

I see he played in our Milk cup team this summer and at 17 he is now at a key age, one to keep an eye on even more closely now.

04 Aug 2014 20:00:02
I watched the Utd games in the Milk Cup over here, Red Man, and much like Perreira last year, Mitchell stood head and shoulders above most of his peers. Fingers crossed, a good prospect.

I remember the convo mate. There's a few players like him in the youth. If we can loan them to clubs like Southampton then they could develop pretty well.

Sydney

Yes I liked Mitchell a couple of years ago as he glided with exceptional balance
It is the key age now, 17, a lot is down to their mental attitude as well as physicality. If he goes on loan he must get games. Like StevieK said, fingers crossed he has the mindset.

04 Aug 2014 12:32:44
Ed002, when a club such as Utd agrees a 3 window plan to rebuild a squad is this primarily a football decision ie: not bring in too many faces at once and risk upsetting the balance or is it a financially driven decision to stagger the outlay on transfer fees ect?
cheers,

Bren

{Ed002's Note - It is practicality - availability of players, etc. all are considerations.}

From everything I read about Van Gaal he has 433 (or a variation of it) at the core of his principles.however he has the ability and strength to play a structure that fits the players at his disposal.
I would imagine that he has earmarked players in this window that will fit both 433 and the current 3412 system and I an sure he is wary of blowing too much money and evolving too quickly in this current window.
I think 1 CM and 1 CD this window would allow him to use both systems but primarily 3412. Look to then get a second CM (probably Strootman) in January with a view that he can then develop players he has and bring in the final pieces next summer.

03 Aug 2014 22:24:56
Ed002, you often say that a buying club believes a deal can be done;most recently in the case of Hummels. Is this the club getting the nod from a player's agent?

{Ed002's Note - It may be.}

04 Aug 2014 15:36:21
Any particular reason why Nick Powell was not on the pre-season squad?
He Did well on his loan spell scoring 7 goals in 32 games.
In my opinion, under LVG he can play #6 or #8 role so we can have a decent midfield of
Herrera, Carrick/fletcher, powell behind RVP Rooney and Mata.

He would need to play #6 or #8 but I think he is more of a number #10 and he will never get in ahead of Mata, Kagawa or Januzaj, even Herrera would be ahead of him for that position. LVG said that we have an unbalanced squad and we do have too many #10s - Fellaini and Powell I think could be the ones that go.

He was injured when the squad went out although I seem to recall him heading out to meet the team a few days later. I'm assuming his fitness just wasn't at the required level to play.

For the last 6 months at Wigan, Powell was awful. He spat his dummy out and couldn't be bothered anymore. Something happened in the dressing room, maybe with the manager, I'm not sure. Did you see the play off semi? He was a disgrace!

I wouldn't want him back if that's his attitude!

I have many Wigan fan friends and they all feel the same!

Powell has been injured for months and only recently returned, He was excellent at Wigan until his injury, but he was played mainly as a striker. I suspect he will go out on loan.

Was watching the open training session on MUTV yesterday. I'm sure I see nick Powell there.

04 Aug 2014 13:13:45
With vidal saga not coming to an end wat do you guys think if we miss out on vidal and carvalho sign for arsenal than we wil miss out on both of them.i know vidal is 1st choice but even carvalho will improve our midfield and we are in danger of losing him to arsenal.May be van gal doesn't want carvalho and will sign strootman in jan. wat do u guys think.

In my humble opinion I don't think van Gaal likes Carvalho - if he did the deal would of been done weeks ago. Vidal is his top target without a doubt but he also wants Strootman. Ideally I am sure he would like both, but I think we will end up with Strootman. If he is back in training and we are still a bit short I wouldn't get against him coming in during the last few days of the window.

Fresh - What if Carvalho is seen as a viable alternative to Vidal by LVG but the Vidal deal is still not dead?

R7, I think that's closer to the mark. But sadly we could end up with neither. That would be annoying, especially if Carvalho moves to Arsenal for say £20m.

Very plausible. I said earlier in the week that we really need to either finish these deals for Vidal and Hummels or knock them on the head because deals for good alternatives are happening all the time. It's very dangerous pinning your hopes on two targets for so long.

The Roma manager has come out and said that we would have to pay a ridiculous amount to get Strootman. He would probably cost more than Vidal would, I really don't understand what the hold up is. If they want Vidal then pay the fee and get the deal done if Vidal wants the move?
Same old United farting about and dragging it on and on and on.
It's just boring now, every year is the same.

Lol, I learnt the hard way guys don't stress yourselves jus wait and see what happens.

Personally I think LvG said he wouldn't sign players until after he had assessed them. He has said he now has after giving them all a chance, albeit a short one. It should earn the respect of the players and it was important to go on tour and bond. If what he said didn't happen and we had bought someone his word would have been questioned.
Now he arrives back, tells the players and we will see who comes in. I am patient because I imagine deals have been under discussion for weeks and this is a timing issue. The players agents will know and likely the player will have decided but they will arrive on LvG's timescale not ours.

04 Aug 2014 10:47:47
I think these next two weeks is going to see some intense transfer activity and Mr Woodward is going to be very busy either finding clubs to buy players or negotiating deals. LVG has basically said he wants to slim down the squad and give players a future in the game that wouldn't have a great one here. To me, he is talking about Anderson, Nani, Hernandez, Fellaini and maybe Kagawa, Zaha. At least four or five will go though. I'd also think some will be going out on loan but I hope James, Wilson, Keane's and Powell stay in and around the first team squad. We are doing so well even without RVP and Januzaj who are two of our best players.

In terms of the players coming in, if this Hummels deal is going to get done it needs to be within the next 10 days because the back up plan Vermaelen could well be moving on very soon having rejected a new deal and Arsene saying that he could leave. So for me the Hummels deal would be the most urgent out of the lot. Di Maria is expected to sign for PSG in the coming days, Reus has been told he is staying and there aren't too many other options that I have read about or heard about. Shaqiri I think could be a very effective and low budget option and our hand could be forced if Liverpool make a push, similarly Depay and Tottenham's interest - those two I expect will leave their clubs this summer and it will be interesting to see if we go in for either of them.

As for Vidal, well I have never been more bored with a saga. It's even worse than Sneijder-gate and that really is saying something. My personal view is that he won't sign and that Fletcher will partner Herrera for the first half of the season as much as possible with Carrick coming in and Cleverley back up. We are destined for a deal for Strootman in January so it is perfectly plausible that we will wait until then rather than signing someone that Van Gaal doesn't deem necessary. This Vidal deal feels like it has dragged on too long to happen now, he is with the Juve tour and they say nearly every day that he will not be sold so I think that boat has nearly almost sailed.

Hummels will be Fabregas saga of this summer.
We have absolutely NO CHANCE of signing him. Dortmund don't want, or need, to sell. It would take upwards of £30million even if he wanted to leave and he clearly doesnt, he wants CL football this season and seems happy at Dortmund.

We really need to kill our interest in him now and move onto a realistic target and that's not Vermaelen who is a crock. We need a solid CB in good physical condition capable of playing every game if need be.

Have to agree with you Fresh, I am now over the vidal transfer no point in us moaning over something when its not going to happen.

I just hope we didn't miss out on vidal or kross because of Strootman, not seen much of him but if the boss wants him then he must rate him high.

The concerning thing will be that Woodward keeps pushing until the last few days and then we have run out of time to get in other targets.

That's what worries me, Fresh.

The way Woodward goes about transfers means one of two things: either he is really naive and thinks that if he keeps haggling he will get players at the price he wants, or he sees these long drawn-out failures as a good way to avoid spending while saving face. Considering he seems to be able to negotiate sponsorship deals without any problem, I'd wager it's the latter.

Every club has a protracted transfer saga every once and while. But we are having them every summer, and we have yet to secure a single singing from these dragged out fiascoes. I realise that transfers are complicated and can take a lot of effort, but we faff around for months and then either pretend that we were never interested or act like the transfer fee demanded was unprecedented and unforeseen.

At some point fans have to realise that a club that constantly talks big but never spends big is telling porkies.

If we spent £40m+ on Mata, I don't think we would worry about spending that on Vidal. We got burned with Fellaini, I think MU will be much more careful in future.

The only thing that we can hope for is that a centre back deal and midfielder deal is very close to being pushed through - one that we haven't heard of yet. Then at least if this falls through we have a back up signing that wouldn't take too long to finalize. I suspect that Blind and Vermaelen may be the two.

Blind is an odd one, Fresh.

Personally, I think he's very average but very useful. A slightly better version of O'Shea, or something.

But I can't deny that he would do a job for us, due to his versatility. A player like that is always useful. But for nearly £20million? No thanks.

Also, nobody else seems interested in him so surely if LVG wanted him, he'd have told Woodward to get it done already. LVG knows him like the back of his hand, and if he really wanted him I think he'd be here.

I can only imagine he's a backup option for someone else, and if we fail with that signing, a late bid will go in for Blind. I seriously hope Vermaelen doesn't come, complete waste of time and money that'd be.

04 Aug 2014 09:02:21
I was just thinking that if LVG can turn A.Young in to a decent LWB then
he might as well get Fellaini to do a decent job as CDM.

Also a question to everyone, Can we fit Kagawa and Mata in the same starting line up?

Im not so sure about how we could fit Kagawa and Mata into this new system without sacrificing one of our strikers, we may see this if we have to sit a bit deeper with a front 3 of RVP, Mata and Kagawa but I think Rooney will be playing most games up top with RVP

04 Aug 2014 11:12:47
Can't see Kagawa and Mata in the same team unfortunately under the system we're going to play .The midfield would be too lightweight with both in it and neither would suit wing back .

As for Fellaini , if LVG can turn him into a midfielder then he really is a genius

Van Gaal has said that he wants to play with two strikers, so two of RVP, Rooney and Welbeck will play in 9/10 games. Mata is the main number 10, and Januzaj will be the one that he rotates with there. As for Kagawa, LVG has said that he may look to make him play the number 6 sometimes so that is the position that he seems likeliest to play.

I think Kagawa and Fellaini will move on MU_DEVIL, Zaha, Nani & Anderson too. As long as there are clubs interested in them of course.

Hernandez too.

Does anybody else think maybe fellani could be moulded into a cb? Especially if we don't manage to sign one

If we don't get that illusive second midfielder Sydney there is no way that Kagawa will be moved on. LVG has said that he can see him as a number 6 so unless we bring players in, he is cover for that position. I also think Zaha will get 6 months unless we get Depay.

No Danny, not for United anyway.

Kagawa and Mata could fit in the same team. They would both be playing number ten roles behind RVP with a midfield three behind Kagawa and Mata.
Fletcher, Herrera and Cleverly.

This formation would be narrow so the wingbacks would need to occupy the wings during attack and defense forcing one or even two of the midfielders to drop back and provide cover (Fletcher and Cleverly in this this case).

04 Aug 2014 15:24:33
Fresh, it would explain why LVG has fielded Kagawa further back in midfield on two occasions on this tour.

Personally Syd, I get the feeling that LVG likes Kagawa. Spoke very highly of him saying you don't become best player in the Bundesliga two seasons in a row without being an exceptional talent. He also took time to praise him for when he came on against Madrid.

If Mata gets injured, it'd be wise to have back up who can be just as good if not better, especially under LVG who's to say he won't step up this season in this new set up?

Oz, I like Kagawa, but with what LvG said about having too many strikers and too many number 10's, I'd imagine Kagawa will probably leave. Mata & Adnan will play that role IMO, there's always Rooney to play there too if needed. Much will depend on what bids we will receive and who we sign I guess. let's wait and see.

04 Aug 2014 08:11:58
Van Gaal says he is close to making a decision on which players he wants to keep and which can leave.

I know, it's in every paper this morning.

Anderson, cleverly and possibly zaha. Not too sure about zaha, LVG said "he's shown his capacity" which doesn't seem very positive to me.

My Guess is Chicharito, Nani, Anderson, Fellaini and Amos will be allowed to find another club. Keane, Blackett, Lingaard will beallowed to leave on loan. I think Young has bouht himself another season with his form in the USA, Fletcher looks bright, still torn on Cleverley though!

Cleverley and Zaha will stay I think. However, if Depay comes in Zaha will go. Amos will go too, LVG was not at all impressed with him but I think Johnstone did well. Blackett and Michael Keane have also done very well. One of our two young strikers will go out on loan and I imagine Henriquez will be sold as he hasn't had a look in.

I think anderson will leave maybe nani, I don't think cleverly has done himself any favours .

04 Aug 2014 11:55:38
Sambo in case you have missed our pre season friendlies cleverley has been awful, gives the ball away under no pressure. seems an honest hard working lad but simply not good enough if we want to challenge again. his market value will be about 6 million which for an english midfielder in his prime says everything.

Place your bets on whose going then! Fellaini, Nani, Anderson and Chicharito. Kagawa and Zaha will stay.

Sambo2 - I don't see Blackett going out on loan. He's been one of our best players over pre-season and with our lack of CB's I can see him staying as back-up.

Both Will and Michael Keane should be sent out on loan as should Zaha if we're not going to sell him (If he's not sold this summer - he will be next summer). We should be looking to loan him, Lingaard and Powell to Premier League clubs.

Fresh, there will be ifs and buts as outgoings may depend on incomings and for us to let players go, we need to find clubs interested in them. But if LvG got his way this summer, then I think Zaha, Kagawa, Fellaini, Hernandez, Anderson & Nani will all follow Bebe out the door. But we have been trying to move Nani & Anderson on for years with no luck so nothing is ever that simple. Also would we let Fellaini go if we couldn't get someone like Vidal? Plenty of ifs and buts, but I think the above six will be surplus if LvG gets his own way this summer and gets the players he wants.

Would have thought keane and Blackett would be staying as we're short on centre backs as it is. I would say that Anderson and fellaini will leave paving the way for a midfielder hopefully Vidal. Nani, Hernandez, I would say that kagawa will more than likely go as well. With evra, vidic, buttner, bebe, Ferdinand and giggs all having left our squad already though that would bring it to 11 departures. Not sure whether we will actually let that many go but 11 departures and only 2 signings seems unrealistic. So if they do go I fully expect some to be replaced in the squad if not in their position

I hope Cleverley and Fellaini go along with Nani, Anderson. I suppose Chicharito too, more for his sake, because he deserves more minutes than we can give him. I would rather see Kagawa on the field than Cleverley, even in center midfield. Hope Kagawa stays.

I don't see why lvg would want to get rid of hernandez .
However hernadez may want to move

Nani, anderson are gone if they can get anyone to buy them. I don't believe fellaini is going anywhere and the daily star is as good as my daily toilet paper when it comes to credibility. Zaha will not make the shad and at best another loan deal.

He seems to do just fine in the world cup for one of the teams loaded with talent and I have feeling he will play holding amid field role under LVG.

The big decisions are Cleverly and Hernandez and what do you do with them.

Kagawa stays and can't see us selling him either.