Manchester United Banter Archive June 04 2014

04 Jun 2014 22:07:24
Sorry, finger trouble sent the text before I had finished.
I was querying whether Woodward was a novice at securing the services of target players. In view of last summer's experience, I have to surmise that he hasn't learnt much in a year. I hope that I am proved wrong.
Before we get too despondent, the squad in 2012-13 ran away with the EPL, so they are not bad players (though the contribution from Vidic will be sorely missed). So with good coaching and the restoration of confidence to players by a great coach, together with the influx of our very promising U21s, maybe we are being too pessimistic. We definitely need at least one world class centre back and at least one quality midfielder (or 2) but let's be optimistic.

Red Setter

In the text that went missing, I had suggested that applying Occam's Razor, the most likely reason why an announcement had not been made about a signing, is because one hasn't been made, not because it would be announced later.
The other leading EPL clubs are making signings before the World Cup starts, which is what we all said needed to be done - yet we are not.
Red Setter

********************************************

Just because there has been no announcement of a signing does not imply that the announcement will happen after the World Cup. Far from it. The Occam's Razor test tells you that no agreement has been reached (even though we all would like to believe the opposite.
We run the risk in the absence of positive news of building up our hopes too high. We have only a few days before the World Cup starts to sign anyone of real proven quality, yet we have all agreed that we needed to. Yes, our competitors have seemingly made significant progress. Why Haven't We? Is it simply because we are not willing to send the extra million to compensate for the lack of involvement in the Champions League or is Mr Woodward competent to secure sponsorship deals but a

{Ed007's Note - I've added the missing text buddy in case you want to rewrite your post and send it back in.}

William of Ockham knew nothing about football so his razor test is useless.

04 Jun 2014 21:17:46
You guys watching the game? Smalling and Jones have been awful, so bad that the twitterverse has 'Smalling and Jones' trending worldwide, and such a mockery is being made. I must admit its painful reading it knowing you don't have much to defend them with! At least this season anyway, and I agree with some who are saying Stones would do a better job atm.

I rate Jones very highly and still believe he will go on to become one of, if not the best CB out there. Smalling I regard more of as a squad player, but this is just embarrassing. I know its a friendly, but it has importance, they are potentially fighting for starting XI places.

Jones got better smalling was poor

04 Jun 2014 21:42:06
I disagree. Only Smalling has been awful, I don't think Jones has done much wrong and has made some good stops/interceptions.

I too really rate Jones and maybe I just see no wrong. But for me Smalling has been poor and dragging Jones down with him.

I missed the first half thanks to the missus, but thought Jones and Smalling were quite shaky in the second half. Definitely struggling for confidence still. Definitely need someone like Hummels this summer. Shaw looked good. Hopefully we can get him wrapped up. Funny seeing TonyV get angry. Hardly surprising with the WC a week away and Sterling jumping in like that. It's a friendly for Christ sake.

Jones had a good game imo.

When you have two attacking midfielders, one of them a 35 year old overweight under-performing midfielder and the other a young 22 year old who spends most of his time either rolling around n the pitch holding his ankles and crying like a little b1tch, just t stand up and act like a hard-man a second later, knowing full well he would get stuffed would it have been anywhere outside of a pitch

Smalling was terrible, Jones did just fine considering. What Milner and Lampard are doing going to the WC I will never know. So what if Milner can play in lots of positions, he does so to a novice standard, so slow.

Rooney - hmmm was he playing? much prefer, Barkley, Ox, Sturridge running with Lambert as the target man. Like for us, he just doesn't seem to fit the system. I worry about him slowing everything down and roaming too much.

What was Sterling doing flying in like that, person?!

05 Jun 2014 08:40:18
Townsend, having a go at Valencia, making light of the tackle because Toni was able to stay on his feet and run after Sterling. Sadly typical of the man.

Don't condone raising your hands, but Toni quite rightly, was probably thinking, 'what the feck are you doing, Sterling? 10 minutes to go, in a friendly, with the World Cup in a matter of days, and you lunge in over the ball like that'!

It wasn't the seriousness of the actual tackle he was angry about, though there was a heavy impact, it was what the tackle COULD have cost him.

That outcome seemed to be lost on Townsend, who I presume would have wanted Toni carried off on a stretcher and missing the World Cup, before considering the Sterling sending off more than, 'unlucky'.

05 Jun 2014 11:12:54
Andy Townsend is an awful commentator and pundit. One of many unfortunately.

Townsend is always just terrible. I can't understand why he is on all the time. I might hate him more than anyone who ever lived, including fictional characters.

The person that p*ssed me off most was the swan that is Ian Wright. Going on and on about it being a crazy thing to do to get angry about a tackle that could have badly injured AV and ended his World Cup before it started. Sorry, maybe I was watching the wrong person during his career but I remember him being a little chicklet who wasn't afraid to play the race card when he was in the utility room. Peter Schmeichels and his shins would probably back me up on that.

You've got to love this sites auto correct for offensive words :-)

04 Jun 2014 19:52:51
Winner - Argentina

Best player - Aguero

Top goalscorer - Hulk
Group winners
A - Brazil
B - Spain
C - Colombia
D - italy
E - France
F - Argentina
G - Germany
H - Belgium

Team to watch Ivory Coast

04 Jun 2014 18:51:15
So, plenty of whispers about Kevin Strootman for our midfield. Now, I think he's a quality player but I have the following SERIOUS reservations about this potential move:

1) He's going to cost around £30million. That would proably mean that he would be our 'marquee' signing for midfield and we'll be lucky to get someone like Clasie to add to our CM options.

2) The obvious one - he's recovering from a serious injury and won't be available even for consideration, until the winter or January.

What happens if he suffers a setback? What if he returns as half the player he was?

We're then left with the same old faces labouring, huffing and puffing in the centre of the park adding next to nothing and getting over-run by even relegation fodder.

I'd hope someone as wise and experienced as LVG would not put all our midfield eggs in one basket, here. As he's in for a rude awakening if he's forced to toil away with our current crop.

The papers seem to be saying that he is a January target, not for now.

04 Jun 2014 19:42:52
And he would pass a medical how?

Boca

Great post. There is so much drivel being posted at the moment that it pointless to even reply. More fantasy land stuff than anything to do with a rumour with some possibility.

04 Jun 2014 22:08:13
That's my point - a January buy that would probably mean we don't sign another top midfielder til then. So a very strong possibility of the same midfield options running til Janury, waiting for a player who might not even return to his form of old.

04 Jun 2014 22:57:27
I agree GCU. I'm just gutted the drongo's spoil this site for everyone! If they just learned to sit and read rather than post rubbish there would have been a possibility of Ed002 letting us know with his list where our interest is. But no! For some reason people just read something on twitter and post straight on here!

We need two mids mate.

04 Jun 2014 17:09:24
Any information on enzo Perez from Benfica? How good is he if you've seen him play?. See we are linked with him

(please post this instead ed's)

I will probably be called a moaner, but is anyone else a little peeved that Chelsea are getting their targets done, while we are still scratching around?

I can't get my head around the fact that we haven't brought at least one player in.

We do everything for maximum PR Sam. Even LVG announcement was timed for when US Stock Markets open on a Monday. Any major deal will be announced to get maximum publicity, so I wouldn't be surprised if we hear nothing formal until all the WC hype has settled down. Liverpool, Chelsea etc don't have the same business as us, we think about share price first not making fans happy unfortunately.

It was reported that MU wanted three signings sorted before the WC kicked off. It does look like EW is struggling at the moment. But we can only really judge come September 2nd. I think he will no longer be in charge of player acquisitions if he messes up this summer. But we can only judge when the window is closed.

04 Jun 2014 18:47:47
The only thing I know is that we will struggle to sign anyone even after the World Cup.

So, this BS about the market not being open yet is scrap. We are finding it difficult to get the players we want.

Okay, most of the things the press is bringing up are just lie, but no one can denye that we may face another poor transfer window even with LVG on board.

The Beast,

You are probably right mate. I was just hoping we would get some business done before the WC started.

Nick86,

I would have thought that getting some of our targets sorted before the WC would have been top priority. Even with a new manager, we should have still done business before he officially takes charge.

Leaving it all to after the WC isn't an option, given the fact that we have a complete liability in charge of the transfer negotiations.

I am actually starting to feel slightly concerned. Our club cannot afford to be left behind this season. It would be a catastrophe.

04 Jun 2014 20:27:52
The Beast

Las tarados it wasn't any hype around the press and we ended up with Fellaini and Moyes, look we we are now!?

You may be right, only the future will tell, but I doubt. I don't buy it into this theory that we do business differently anymore. The truth is that we are not that good when come to transfers and this season we can't fail otherwise we'll be the new Liverpool(leaving under past glories).

It's the only logical conclusion I can come up with, if we have the cash and assurances players will come (supposedly), then it has to be down to PR. We wouldn't cock up again surely, there must be more people at Utd that know how to get deals through so I don't think we need to panic until 20th (ish) of July.

04 Jun 2014 15:38:20
"He won't be back playing until autumn - that's the time schedule at the moment, He is of interest to Louis van Gaal but not related to Manchester United at this point."
When probed as to whether he would be of greater interest in the future, he added: "Could be. But he's in Rome and he had a terrific season. There has been nothing between the clubs or between Louis and Kevin - they know each other and like each other but at this stage its not related to Man United.
"Roma do not want to sell. The first thing is its all between [the] clubs. And its also a very difficult decision because he has to choose between a fantastic club in Rome, a club that bought him and supported him while he was injured and [then] you have his personal coach of the national team at United."
"The clubs have to decide. He's very happy at Rome, he's happy to stay because they play Champions League next season, and happy to recover his injury, so at this stage we are not part of any discussion."strootman agent

According to Andy Mitten we are close to signing Hummels. Not sure what to make of it as I didn't even know we were in talks with BvB. Shaw and Hummels would certainly be two very good signings.

{Ed004's Note - Without doubt the two perfect signings for our back line. If I had to pick two players it would be them for CB and Lb. I reckon smalling and Rafael will become world class or atleast very good players under LvG}

Sounds to me as though a move will be made either in the summer of 2015 or the January of 2015. Who will be out box to box midfielder? It's the position we need to fill more than anywhere else, Vidal must still be the top target but we have no chance.

Mueller seems to be unsettled in the past two days too. Either Barcelona or ourselves may have offered him personal terms that would be hard to turn down. He went from ruling out a move and saying he's staying, to I want a conversation with BM to see if I am valued. So what's happened in the meantime? Have we stepped it up a notch. We know he's on a very low salary by his standards. If we paid him £80k a week we would be more than doubling his wages. Or have Barcelona turned his head? Or has he got wind of BM listening to offers for him? Silly season is starting to hot up.

Fresh
I don't think strootman is a box to box midfielder.
I also hope we sign our cm this summer not next

Sydney are you saying Mueller earns less than £40k?

Thats hard to believe.

Strootman is a b2b midfielder, but I think we need a much busier, much quicker midfielder. Shame Gundogan is still injured. Herrera has to be a target still surely? I think he fits the bill. Carvalho may be the only one who is achievable, but if he has a great WC he maybe very difficult to sign.

Syd
I don't think he is .
He can play further up the pitch but tends to play one position .
It would take him about 20 minutes to run from 1 box to the other

Look at the ground herrera (someone I would class as b2b ) covers compared to strootman.
Same goes for gundogan

Muller Hummels Shaw shows intent and maybe Fabregas too would be great I would personally make Hummels captain

€2m a season.

04 Jun 2014 18:40:54
Cheers for sharing jred, although I would suggest these quotes tell us very little if anything at all, that we didn't know. Still interesting hearing it from the horse's (agents) mouth though.

Syd, Herrera's name is one that keeps jumping out at me too. In terms of quality, availability and playing style I cannot think of a much better option. I don't know of any interest this summer though which is a shame.

I think that we need to get 1 or 2 players in of decent quality pre world cup or straight after. This is the only Way more will join if they genuinely see a fabregas or a Hummels has joined.

Nice one Jred, I had a giggle at that. On a serious note, Strootman covers a lot of ground. That is his job. He gets up and down the pitch sticking a foot in. That was certainly what he done at PSV.

Syd
I don't think he played that deep for psv, certainly not as deep as he does for holland or roma ( although I've only seen him a a few times fir roma)
I just think he has a role, support and start the attack at psv or dictate tempo for holland .
I really don't see him as b2b

He played the number 8 role for PSV. Watched him 10 to 15 times when he was at PSV.

04 Jun 2014 14:16:58
Am I the only one who dies a little inside when a player of Pogba's now undoubted quality will be heading to PSG, Chelsea or City for £60m.

Fergie didn't make that many mistakes but that was a whopper. A small debit tho in the context of 27 years worth of credit.

Appreciate they're being linked with everyone like we always are but I already think it's Chelsea's title next year.
I'd take that now if you could guarantee good attacking football to watch and a Top 4 finish. Then a real crack at the 1516 title and some good Euro nights back.

How can it possibly be SAF's fault. Pogba and his agent have achieved exactly what they wanted. Pogba was never going to sign a contract with MU. Excellent player and will be one of the best in the world, but sadly he is a mercenary. It won't stop him having an excellent career mind. He will end his career a very rich man and having played for the best clubs in the world. MU messed up by not offering him a more sturdy deal as 17 year old for him to sign on his birthday. Sadly MU are still making the same mistakes now. Adnan was close to leaving and Wilson is out of contract in the summer.

I disagree Sydney, I think that if we had paid him what he wanted and if we had played him (especially in the Blackburn game when Rafael played CM) then he would still be here. Thank god we have got Adnan tied down, I hope we do the same Wilson.

Freash, you think Poges will stay at juvent us for the rest of his career then if he's paid enough? Managed by the same agent who also has Zlatan and Balotelli on his books? Pogba was being hawked around Europe by other agents before the will he won't / he debacle.

Fresh, you can disagree as much as you want, but it doesn't make it true. The editor has made it abundantly clear to us before and after he left that him and his agent had no intentions of staying at MU.

Wilson has signed a new long term contract.

Wilson's contract is until 30th June 2014. I have little doubts that he will sign a new deal, but we have still left it far too late just like we did with Adnan.

If I remember rightly a lot of the old guys on this site cried out for Fergie to play him and he rarely did. There was many an opportunity to do it so Fergie to an extent was at fault but not totally to blame.

At the end of day the guy was never going to spend all his career with us but he could had a few more years with us if we had played it right.

Saying that, none of us were privy to what went on and obviously Fergie knew something so had his reasons.

04 Jun 2014 16:41:37
Would have been brilliant to see 2 fantastic prospects such as Pogba and Januzaj in the same team. If we still had him and played him last season I think we'd be much happier, even if our league position was the same!

I am actually in agreement with both sides of the fence. Yes, he was always looking for a move away, no doubt about it. But the way SAF handled him was not his finest hour.

Deeps.

Deeps, I think SAF knew what he was doing all along. After the third rejected offer, SAF went crazy in the dressing room. Pogba had to train alone. SAF did all he could, shame as Pogba is exactly what we are missing now :(

An awful lot of players are mercenaries at heart Syd!. The only question, and what means they are labelled as such, is whether they have to leave a club to get what they want elsewhere or whether their current club pays up. We are about to make an 18 year old the highest paid teenager in the world, by all accounts, so why was the idea of Pogba asking for more money seen as so obscene? Perhaps because he wasn't English? There are some players who are destined to be world class and know it, Pogba being 1 of them and as things stand he is being proven correct. We also handed Januzaj a whopping deal. If we'd have done the same with Pogba then he may very well still be with us.

04 Jun 2014 19:12:39
I'm with Syd on this one, his agent was always looking for a way out for him. SAF gave him some chances and banished him other times, IMO these periods coincided with us offering him contracts then him declining. We could not keep playing him after he turned down several good offers. I actually think Pogba was happy here but was being strongly advised to leave the whole time.

TK, Syd, Gav - Its actually sad that we lost out on our 2 best academy players since the Class of 92, Pogba and Ravel.(except 'course Adnan). The reasons are different, but I can't help but think "what might have been". A midfield of Pogba and Ravel - Stuff of dreams.

Deeps.

TK, I agree with some of that and I wasn't calling him a mercenary to have a go, he is an actual mercenary. A Tevez MK II. Like you said most of them are nowadays. But it's a shame he never committed to us.

The problem was Pogba wasn't asking for more money. He never had any intention of staying no matter what we offered. A year before he actually moved he was being offered around Europe. That kind of says it all really.

None of it really matters anymore. Shame though as he is what we are missing.

I'm not saying he wasn't / isn't a mercenary Syd. Let's face it he's not the only one. And clearly he'll never be the 'bleed for the shirt' player wherever he plays. But playing is something he wasn't doing for us.

Can't complain tho can we. Afterall we nicked him from St Etienne in the first place!

Le halve

I mean Le havre, I have had enough of this phone.

04 Jun 2014 22:28:53
Agree with that Deeps, I often dream of a side with them 2 in as well as Wilson, Januzaj, DDG etc. Would have been immense but it wasn't to be.

05 Jun 2014 13:54:13
Gav, you need to get out more, mate, if that's as good as your dreams get.

04 Jun 2014 11:25:49
If memory serves me right Ed002 has taken a break from this page over the last few transfer windows due to some very impatient / rude posters. I'm beginning to think it is probably convenient for his/her (I may have to refer to Ed002 as "the symbol" ala prince a few years ago as Ed002 has changed sex more times than a jellyfish) to concentrate on their in all likely-hood more important other job.
I will miss their no nonsense
/ non guff posts for the next few weeks/couple of months. Please don't cheese of any other ed's or I will be denied of a world cup period beefed up with a fully informative football rumour site. You know who you are

04 Jun 2014 19:53:40
I appreciate all the ed's hard work and input and Ed002 seems very well informed. I appreciate all the Ed's input along with a lot of the regulars.

04 Jun 2014 12:04:47
Could we have potentially reached a deal with Southampton in relation to the fee for Shaw? The transfer would of gone through had we paid the £30 million or whatever the quotes fee - clearly we don't want to. This talk about including Chicharito makes perfect sense if he is happy to move there. They will need a striker now Lambert has gone and Rodriguez is injured and we will want to pay less. Chicharito also probably won't be in our first team plans. Suits all parties I think.

Why would he want to go to Southampton? If he was British it might make sense - but there's a myriad of foreign clubs who would take him.

All parties suited but not Chicharito who will want a team that is challenging for titles I think he will end up replacing Diego at Atletico no chance he will sign for Southampton but I am 99% on us signing Shaw just after the world cup I think all the players coming in will arrive same time same day.

All parties bar perhaps Hernandez. If he was to move I'm sure he would prefer to Inter or Valencia.

If he wants to stay in England then it isn't a bad option, a team pushing for Europa League. Although of course Atletico could well be his destination.

Possibly even Spurs

I'm sure Hernandez would prefer Spurs over Southampton. I would have no issues selling to Spurs.

04 Jun 2014 16:56:39
Hernandez will score for fun wherever he goes. I can see it being athletico. Not many better strikers at finding space. Fantastic movement. Bee sad to see him go

Le Havre nicked him too.

04 Jun 2014 07:57:21
I see van gaal has said Micheal vorm and 5 other Dutch players are negotiating with other clubs at the moment. let's hope one of the other 5 is clasie, indi, depay or de vrij speaking to utd

Can I ask a question - for the past few weeks (ever since LVG was announced) we have been linked with players out of the Dutch team which is a natural assumption with Van Gaal being there.

But the names mentioned above - are they Man Utd quality?

I don't watch Dutch football and I won't pretend to know anything about it but I haven't heard of any of these players - i'm not saying for one second that because I haven't heard of them they aren't good players but if we had any other manager would people be 'hoping' for us to sign these players?

Im looking forward to seeing the Netherlands in the world cup to see how Van Gaal conducts his team and will look closely at these players but the question is will these players be good enough to win the title back?

MU will be talking with some of them, but they may be back-ups in case we do not get others.

To be honest any of them nwould be an improvement on anything we saw last year, are they champions league quality is dubious but in that regard, we can take a punt and bed them in this year so long as we also get some top quality buys too.

Giants I don't watch Dutch football either but garner information from a couple of Dutch ex-colleagues. They don't state the above are world class but have potential and would add pace and mobility to the side. I
think should we sign anyone from the Dutch side at least lvg will have a good understanding of their temperament. My colleagues always go on about the danish lad (thanks Syd) fisher as being the outstanding talent in Dutch league football at the moment.

Bookedredmole - I will look forward to seeing them in the world cup - I know LVG likes to go for the youth but I do feel we need more proven players for next season than potential - don't get me wrong I love seeing the youngster come through eg januzaj but I believe impact players are what's needed particularly next season.

Giants I see your point and accept your views but think differently. In my opinion the centre back should be the important experienced player and should we be lucky enough to get hummels he would be a perfect fit. For midfield I think you can get away with more youth. I appreciate there are risks involved with youth but if lvg thinks they are in the best 23 from Holland i'm sure they could potentially blossom into stars at old Trafford. We have had some mares but also unearthed gems like solskjaer, Irwin, Ronny Johnson etc. the caveat is of course is that they might not be first choice for lvg if at all. i'm just excited by the prospect of attacking football again.