Manchester United Banter Archive June 04 2018

 

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04 Jun 2018 21:56:16
Fred- more like mousa Dembele or more like Anderson?

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05 Jun 2018 01:10:20
More like Fred to be honest.

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04 Jun 2018 23:24:22
By the time Jose is finished with him He will make him look like djemba djemba the second.

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05 Jun 2018 09:03:12
Plays a lot like Modric but not as silky šŸ˜†šŸ˜†.

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05 Jun 2018 10:29:52
Like midi but not as silky? I've seen Fred numerous times turn defence to attack and go past 2 or 3 pressing players. Don't know who to compare him too play wise. Maybe a dribbling Kante.

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{Ed007's Note - Sounds like Ed025, he turns into a right dribbling Kante after a few beers.}

05 Jun 2018 15:18:01
Like BFRO but his comments are no where near as gšŸ˜†šŸ˜†d.

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05 Jun 2018 15:22:23
I had to read your reply twice ed to get an even deeper meaning to your joke. Made me chuckle.

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{Ed007's Note - :)

04 Jun 2018 14:19:54
Serious question here for everyone, let's say Mourinho spends another 200m+ on players this summer, several young players such as Shaw and Martial leave.

Then next season plays out the same as this season, we play boring negative anti-football, while limping out of the UCL and finishing 2nd or 3rd 10-15 points off the leaders.

Would you still say Jose is the right man for the job and we should stick with him?

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04 Jun 2018 17:11:00
Definitely not the progression now is to at least mount a very serious title challenge. Even if the football is better to watch.
Got to say I'm quite excited about the shake up in the coaching staff think it could be a real positive for us.

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04 Jun 2018 17:11:58
Let's talk about Jose for the 1 millionth and one time.

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04 Jun 2018 17:12:25
No.
There needs to be continual improvement so next season should see us going for the title (properly) and going further in the champions league if that isn't achieved then the manager isn't fulfilling his remit and should be treated ad any other manager who fails to deliver.

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04 Jun 2018 17:14:04
Oh Definitely - Jose is bigger than the club, he is a winner remember, before him we were just a shell of a team with LVG as the benchmark for him to be judged against at all times. (SAF didn't exist and if he did, it was just the last fluky season playing equally as bad football that Jose is to be compared with) there should follow the biggest sarc emoji known to man!

I know this post isn't directed at people on our side of the fence Shappy, but frankly anybody still supporting what Jose brings to the table is never going to change their criteria of success/ failure or expectations. It's a thankless task as they watch a different game and expect different things from their club. I suspect they are more interested in the 'stats' than the actual display.

Each to their own, but anybody saying they are enjoying watching us or like the direction we are heading in, or think this is a recipe for beautiful, attacking football, just aren't worth the trouble trying to convince otherwise - they are lost in my eyes. But if they are happy at least that means some of our fans are, take solace in that mate because I have realised that there are just some people you can't convince no matter how powerful the argument.

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04 Jun 2018 17:24:20
Nope. next season needs to be better - we need some silverware with a serious title challenge finishing in the mid to high 80s in points. the football needs to be more attacking and we need to get to the final 8 in the champs league. That would represent progress and we would have got to where SAF left us. If we continue to play limp football and end the season where we ended this one jose would have gone backwards for me.

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04 Jun 2018 17:26:32
Shaw's had enough chances and is no loss. Every journo and pundit is reporting Jose and the club want martial to stay. Who's to say how we perform? We're playing 2 wingers at full back because the 2 actual full backs aren't good enough. Our best centre back spent part the season injured. Our big signing at centre back needed to adjust to a new country and league, Rojo missed almost all the season and isn't good enough. Says it all we had to rely on Jones and Smalling. And of course Dave the Save. let's see if we can improve the defence, see if Fred can add some dynamism in the middle, and if anyone can grab the right forward berth that would make a difference. How about let's see how the transfer window goes first. Your a good poster shappy and I enjoy your posts but its getting repetitive now. If however the season goes how you say, and I sincerely hope it doesn't then yes its time for him to go. But who comes in and how much time does he get before we get more sack the manager posts?

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04 Jun 2018 17:32:41
Beast's post brought to you by the strawman fallacy. (Look it up. )

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04 Jun 2018 17:33:54
Iā€™m excited to see who Jose falls out with next season. Sanchez is an obvious choice, but Iā€™m sure heā€™ll pull out a surprise for us.

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04 Jun 2018 17:38:52
Obviously has to be clear progression shaps. If your scenario plays out then he must go. We have to be challenging for the title right into the business end of the season, minimum quarter finals in the champions league, and the style has to improve dramatically.

Beast - just because someone doesnā€™t share the same view as you doesnā€™t mean they are wrong. Iā€™m very much in the middle on my view on Jose. I am unhappy with the style but can appreciate there have been improvements. Not everything is black or white, but can be grey too. I also am willing to give him another season, but if he doesnā€™t perform he must be shown the exit. Doesnā€™t mean I think Jose is bigger than the club or think he can do no wrong.

Youā€™ve turned on the last 3 managers pretty quickly. To your credit you were right about lvg, and you point out some good points regarding Jose. But whose to say you wonā€™t turn on the next manager if we are in the same situation 2 years down the line. You may get your wish of jardim and he may play great football, but we are challenging for 4th. I can guarantee you will be calling for his head because we are not challenging for top honours. Iā€™ll be happy to hold my hands up at the end of next season and say you are right regarding Jose if he fails. But your consistent negativity gets a bit too much sometimes. Maybe I am not seeing the facts like you. But I will back whoever is manager of our great club because thatā€™s the right thing to do, whether I like him or not.

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04 Jun 2018 17:54:33
Sexy beast, itā€™s not just the managers that heā€™s turning on.

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04 Jun 2018 18:06:29
Iā€™m in favour of Mourinho staying, but itā€™s all about progress hence why Iā€™m not overly disappointed with this season. If Mourinho gets the players he wants, thereā€™s no excuses. We need to either close the gap to city, or somehow overtake them and ensure a much better showing in Europe for him to remain imo.

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04 Jun 2018 17:59:58
beast i am a jose in fan, but i'm not an idiot, the football has been unattractive and boring to watch mostly if not 90 percent of the time, if i thought otherwise i would be a fool,

but at times all be it not a great deal of times there has been glimpses of the type of football we can play especially at the start of the season and as many have said on here this will be his 3rd season and the style has to be improved not doubt about that

i think we can all agree that the style isn't great to watch,

but he must be doing somthing right because we finished above the all out attacking sides like Liverpool and spurs. we are hard to beat and don't concede many.

there has been many times where our play in the final third has cost us points, that you can't blame on the manager.

love him or hate him, complain about the style the fact is he is getting the job done, all be it slowly, forget fergie that era is over.

you cannot deny we have progressed post fergie which everyone seems to revert back to when slagging jose off and if anyone on your side of the fence thought otherwise then like you say each to your own.

the team we have atm is not a team you can play attacking football with, we don't control games in the middle of the park.

the full backs are poor going forward, can't cross a ball and the centre halfs are not good enough bar bailly who up untill his injury was top.

ive said it time and time again that up untill the injuires to bailly and pogba at the start of the season we were flying.

we lack quality in certain areas

we are weak in many areas to play a style of football that's going to not only look amazing to watch while still maintaining a challenge.

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{Ed025's Note - the thing is bolger as you say this is his 3rd season and for me the style has stayed the same...slow, boring at times, and bus parking against the better teams, obviously for you its all about the results and thats fine if thats what floats your boat, for me united is synonymous with style, quality and having teams that frighten the life out of the opposition, they are miles away from that at the moment if you ask me and thats solely down to the manager mate, him being an egotistical arsehole does not help matters either..

04 Jun 2018 18:34:19
Ed I would disagree that I am a fan all about the results. I've grew up only knowing united playing attacking football since the 90s

But I just didn't expect Jose to come in and implement that straight away coming off 2 managers before him who played poor football it was going to take time.

I do agree with people on here who say Jose plays boring football and it needs to improve that is something that needs to be done this season otherwise questions will be asked

I just don't think he's done that bad a job as most people are making out.

We knew what we were getting with Jose from day one.

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{Ed025's Note - your right you did bolger which beggars the question why him?, once upon a time he would have been a good catch but has gone downhill faster than a fat kid on a slide in recent times, maybe its because im a bit of a purist but i have always begrudgingly admired united because of the way they played the game...but not anymore mate..

04 Jun 2018 18:47:07
I don't care who if the two you mentioned leave as they haven't contributed much. I would say Martial didn't really get many chances thus year compared to rashford but no one knows the reason why.

If jose gets the players he wanta and doesn't improve the points tally or doeant win the league next year then you would have to evaluate and see what's best available for the club.

All the top managers are at their clubs already. It also depends on how we do in champions league.

My personal opinion is we will do fine next year . Man city can't really improve on what they have done this year, most of their players will be tires coming back from worldcup and with no David Silva if he leaves they will be a much weaker unit.

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04 Jun 2018 19:38:40
Don't think we are miles away from being a really good team. Remember how we were before Eric arrived? We were decent but he just provided the extra spark. I kind of feel that we are almost at that turning point again. There is a lot of talent at Jose disposal. if we click and stay clear of injuries we can be a real force.

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04 Jun 2018 19:45:48
I think when Jose first came to England with Chelsea he had a massive advantage on other teams at the time with Romans dollar

He's just a very stubborn manager


Hopefully the shake up of the backroom staff will bring fresh ideas into the team.

We have a good transfer window and pre season and he proves everyone wrong.

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05 Jun 2018 01:57:19
Lol - the vultures are circling, quite why you feel the need to fan the flames Shappy I have no idea. For some reason some fans/ poster's can find no good in the last season. Some seem determined that it will go down in the history books as one of the worst in utd's history.

City undoubtedly were different class all year.

Liverpool finally turned their promising team into a good run in the UCL, albeit with no trophy.

I can only summise that the relative style of our two fiercest rivals has got under the skin of our fans. Assisted of course by the media who love to write about utd.

We forget that in the early season we seemed to score 4 goals every week. But the performance wasn't good enough.

We are all seeking perfection, but I have to admit that 6-0 every week with 90% possession is pretty boring stuff.

I am optimistic about next season, but refuse to chalk up last season as the total disaster that a few would have us believe.

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05 Jun 2018 05:55:00
I think it is our style that has got under most people's skin.

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05 Jun 2018 13:54:04
Shappy,

I think I know how you feel. When Moyes was appointed manager I was utterly distraught, desolated, beyond consoling because I felt it was such a huge negative step backwards, which of course it was. You are posting in an almost desperate pleading manner for everyone to see what you see. You and the Beast want to make everyone see the ā€œlightā€, realise the manager is awful and suddenly he will be dismissed and all our problems will be solved by adding a coach who may or may not be able to play attractive football. Would a new coach win anything? Probably not. I was prepared to keep my head down in shame at another year of Moyes but the club were decisive and I expect they would be if they couldnā€™t see improvement or a clear direction from Jose.

I doubt many enjoyed the football last year but football teams are not just built on nice footballers and fancy play, Madrid win games because of players like Ramos, not just the fancy ones. Their football has t been great this season, but what a cup to win. You ask about whether young players like Shaw and Martial leave, yet if they had half the will to win of a Ramos they would play every week.

I understand your desperation but the same argument over and over isnā€™t going to change the manager this summer. If Woodward does his job then the right quality of player will arrive and that will benefit the club, remember some players are and will come to play for Mourinho. I donā€™t think you can be definite but I would expect the board to set the manager some key objectives and that will define what happens to him. Season on season improvement would need to see us close or in front of City. We have to wait and see.

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04 Jun 2018 16:01:39
not united related .................

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04 Jun 2018 16:21:12
eds, not sure why my post cuts off, was it me or does it come through like that when it should be posted on another one of your sites.

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{Ed002's Note - It is absolutely nothing to do with MU.}

04 Jun 2018 16:32:52
noted.

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04 Jun 2018 15:37:57
Anyone else watch the "football godfathers" its Geoff Shreeves in conversation with a manager for an hour -its on History channel - looking at the careers of 5 managers so far I've seen LVG and Houllier .

LVG has had some amazing success and given debuts to some great players -Houllier too -

Anyway, what was interesting is that both said 2 years is needed before you can implement what you want, yes there are exceptions but they trget 2 years as to when they feel they and the players, the set up, the coaching is in place to move forward.

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04 Jun 2018 16:49:52
Two years to implement. 'the philosophy'

Gives me shudders thinking about it again.

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04 Jun 2018 17:42:12
I didn't like LVG -saw him in a different light though, he went into the youth set up at Ajax and then Barcelona. the list of players he gave debuts to is incredible-

Houllier was a school teacher, within 10 years of taking on a semi professional team as player manager he had won the French premier league - he gave it all up to go back to his real passion "teaching" which meant he was tasked with implementing his philosophy (his words) from grass roots upwards -when France won the world cup the french manager gave Houllier his medal as without him none of the players would have come through, and the style fo play would never have evolved.

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04 Jun 2018 20:21:25
Decent programmes on History at the moment. Iā€™m currently watching FIFA World Cup official film, Italia 90.
Wednesday night theyā€™ve got ā€˜One night in Turinā€™. Gets you right in the mood for the World Cup.

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05 Jun 2018 01:44:36
I think the World Cup is so over-rated.

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Boxing Legends Part 1 - Mike Tyson

04 Jun 2018 10:30:52
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Boxing Legends Part 1 - Mike Tyson

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04 Jun 2018 13:13:22
Good read that ed. One of my sporting hero's. A fearsome and awesome fighter.
A totally flawed character but one hell of a fighter.

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{Ed001's Note - glad you enjoyed it ken, he was one of mine as a kid as well. He was like a comic book villain.}

04 Jun 2018 14:46:57
You should read his autobiography one of the best most honest ones I have ever read .
Amazing what he achieved with the lifestyle of drink and drugs he had .

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{Ed001's Note - I have it to read next, just wanted to do this before reading it. Would have been easy to end up just taking whole pieces from it otherwise.}

04 Jun 2018 15:53:07
Ed01 that makes sense, book really is a good read you will enjoy it.

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{Ed001's Note - I am looking forward to reading it, everyone I know who has read it raved about it.}

04 Jun 2018 16:51:05
Thanks for the suggestion, I'm looking for a good read atm.

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Review Of The Day 4th June 2018

04 Jun 2018 06:27:00
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 4th June 2018

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04 Jun 2018 00:37:49
Call me old fashioned or maybe just plain stupid but doesn't it annoy anyone else other than me that almost the first thing a new manager does is ask for as big a budget as possible to buy new players. I would love just for once to see a top flight manager come into a new club and not buy a single player but rather coach and man manage the existing squad and improve it noticeably.

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04 Jun 2018 08:27:14
Jose has improved the players, we jumped from 6th to 2nd, of all his signings only Lukaku and Matic have shone, we needed a striker to replace Zlatan and a MF to replace Carrick so in that aspect I think Jose has improved existing players as the other signings have left or been left out or been poorer than weā€™d like, wether some of those existing players and indeed signings are good enough to take the next step we all crave tho is another matter, no matter how good the coaching is, so spending money has to happen. Unfortunately at a club such as ours spending years waiting for existing players to reach certain heights isnā€™t a luxury United and jose has.

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04 Jun 2018 10:28:26
Welsh red,

Has Jose improved the players? I beg to differ. Iā€™d say heā€™s failing to get the best from most of them personally. How can you say about Lukaku and Matic when theyā€™re both in their first season? Iā€™d say Lingard is the only one who improved. Rashford and Martial have gone backward, Sanchez Is a shadow of the player he was at Arsenal, Pogba hasnā€™t improved, Bailly our best CB has been left out. Valencia has declined badly. In fact, Matic was poor from Christmas onward and Lukaku is not a top player. His touch is woeful, heā€™s not a top striker.

I think Jose is past it tbh. Look at the trophies he won in the first half of his career, and then the second. There is a significant drop in trophies won. And in this system he deploys I donā€™t personally think it matters who we sign. We could sign Messi and Ronaldo and weā€™d still be boring. Thatā€™s why I canā€™t get excited about transfers this summer, whoever we sign wonā€™t make a difference playing this style.

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04 Jun 2018 10:45:34
Some have improved but some haven't. It must be very difficult to get the best out of everyone who by the way are all multi- millionaires. It's all or nothing this coming season every player needs to be on board to stand a chance. šŸ˜†šŸ˜†.

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04 Jun 2018 10:55:02
Stand-U I think that was quite a harsh assessment. Matic hasn't been poor since Christmas, may have had an off game or so but certainly not poor. I also think young's form in the twilight of his career has to be mentioned.
We can never be more boring than we were under LvG.

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mbd              

04 Jun 2018 11:16:09
Rashford has been on a downwar spiral since his first 3 games for United. How has Jose led to his going backwards. He has played the most number of games for United this season.

Young has been good, so good that he has been called up for England ahead of several that most fans here would want to be playing at LB for us. Lindelof (being in his first season and only 22) has improved as the season has gone on. Valencia has been a very solid RB for us this season. How has he gone backwards, is it because of his age or Jose? Smalling has been one of the best CBs in the premier league this season. I simply can't stand seeing him play but i have to call what i see and Smalling and Jones partnership has excelled this season. Matic has been our player of the season. McTominay has been gelled into the first team. Lingard has had the best season of his career. Lukaku has scored more goals than last. Its not Jose's fault that his first touch is poor and that isn't something coaching would effect. If it were down to coaching, SAF would have done something about Rooney's first touch. Some people only like being negative and their posts show as much.

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04 Jun 2018 11:39:24
Exactly, some people make us believe that any manager will not be good enough if they are not consistently winning things.

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04 Jun 2018 11:53:43
Rumour has it Jose is at fault for sane not making the Germany squad.

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04 Jun 2018 12:57:24
I don't think many (if any) of our fans are forming their opinion on Jose based on whether we won a trophy or not this season.

99.99% of the criticism is on account of the way we play, most of us would accept missing out to a tremendous Man City and Real Madrid so long as we missed out in style. Missing out and playing truly awful football is the issue, so please let's not misdirect or misinterpret the reason behind the criticism of Jose.

He has the tools, finances, 2 years to plan/ prepare and he has got away with murderous football - let's hope he turns it around this year. Win, Lose, or Draw I would like to do so being Man Utd. There can be no excuses next season as a third year in a job is long enough for the team to be yours in anyone's book!

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04 Jun 2018 13:11:46
I didnā€™t say heā€™s improved Matic and Lukaku I said of his signings they are the ones that shone.
Valencia and Young have improved for me, Lingard as you say, McTominay integrated, Jones when heā€™s fit seems a better defender, Lindelof improved as the seasom wore o. In fact I would say Lukaku all round game has improved also, are we saying Jose had no impact at all on this?
Rashford has had many minutes, Sanchez will come back good imo, Martial has only himself to blame as does Shaw, Pogba is harshly treated when his stats arenā€™t that bad actually but jury out on him for me.
Tbh I agree with Beast, we have improved in terms of players mindset is better, points, goals, position all improved but itā€™s the style of football which is where he should be rightfully criticised, canā€™t argue anything else heā€™s done as itā€™s obvs improvement, I feel next season is a massive one for Jose.

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04 Jun 2018 13:12:25
No way has Jose ruined Rashford. He has been given plenty of opportunities by Jose, admittedly a lot from the subs bench but he has not made an impact on a regular basis.
He did last season when we won the Europa League but not this season.
Yes itā€™s hard when coming on as a sub but you have to be ready and as a forward you must make an impact.
We never complained about Solsjkaers impact from the bench, yes that is extreme but it shows what can be done. This is a learning season for Rashford he is not yet the finished article.
Without Lukakuā€™s goals we wouldnā€™t of finished 2nd so his touch although frustrating to watch is not everything.

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04 Jun 2018 14:52:33
Under Moyes the style was bad.
Under van Gaal the style was bad.
Under Jose the style is bad.

Do we pick coaches with no style?
Or do we accept some players aren't good enough for the style required?

It can't all be down to the managers that things are poor in terms of style. Didn't Jose berate them post game for not following instructions.

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04 Jun 2018 15:04:02
Doesnā€™t Jose always try to pass the buck when things go wrong?

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04 Jun 2018 15:56:06
Mort
I think most fans knew that moyes and Jose played a certain brand.
Lvg had played a boring brand for the last 10 years I think a few had there fingers crossed lvg was suddenly going to be the manager he was 10 year before .
That's maybe the case with Jose as well.

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04 Jun 2018 16:41:06
Mort, I said a week or two back I find it baffling that a club with a history of playing tradition (in the main) such as ours would appoint 3 managers on the spin that are the opposite to our traditions.
As jred says Moyes we knew from Everton played one way, LVG played one way for the last decade, I think we all hoped that Jose would embrace our way, maybe itā€™s just me thinking he had it at Chelsea 1st time and Real heā€™d do it here and maybe he still will but this is what happens when we donā€™t watch week in and week out our opponents, Chelsea fans did say donā€™t expect flamboyance.
But he does get the job done more often than not and thatā€™s where the fan base spilts, the likes of me and Beast and many others no doubt would like to see the football and win or go down playing the right way, others say itā€™s all about the trophies, and thatā€™s true, itā€™s about winning for Jose and the club, is such an odd feeling to have winning things, improving things but not quite happy.

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04 Jun 2018 17:03:20
WRD, the argument we see on this site and the one I've been persuaded by is that there is a third way. Specifically, Jose keeps it tight and grinds out results for a few seasons until he has a team he can trust to play more expansive football.

Results do matter because they mean we at least stay in contention and for example qualify for the champions league which means we can attract a better standard of player and we have the revenue to pay (for) them.

I've been told by posters on this site that Jose needs three seasons and with the pretty much unlimited budget he has, he will have the team he needs by the end of next season. Ok then, I'll wait for that to happen and then in season four I'll expect something pretty bloody dynamic from his team.

If by season four we are still labouring away and I find washing the car more exciting than watching Utd, then I will expect a massive apology from certain posters on this site for convincing me to stick with Jose when after two seasons I was pretty sure that the football under him would always be dire and we should get shut sooner rather than later.

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04 Jun 2018 17:35:55
Certainly don't get me wrong if its still bad in 12 months time then the question has to be asked. But given we're still playing with players that shouldn't be here then should we not wait till the jobs done.

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04 Jun 2018 18:46:18
I just think united should play a certain brand of football and be challenging and indeed winning things but I know thatā€™s a hard combination to master.
Maybe we are all waiting in hope rather than expectation that we will see a shift in playing style. For me personally I really wanted the United/ jose alliance to work and I find it hard to say next manager please so frequently but maybe Iā€™m clouding my own judgement by SAF being here so long, times have changed a lot even since Fergie retired.

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04 Jun 2018 22:30:13
Mort
What if Jose thinks then players should be . Fellaini for example or Tony his captain smalling his first choice cb .
What if Jose picks them because he rates them and actually he wants to play the way we set up to play week after week .

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