Manchester United Banter Archive November 04 2013

04 Nov 2013 16:28:16
Chicharito RT'ing Carlos Vela's statements that he should leave if he doesn't get the minutes he needs. Could Chicharito really be looking to leave?

I think both Kagawa and Hernandez will leave this summer.

Why did SAF buy Kagawa? To play him as a winger or as a replacement for Rooney or was this before he knew he could bring in RvP? Feel sorry for the guy he's got such great ability.

The only way Kagawa leaving would be acceptable is if he is involved in transfers of either Gundogan, Reus, Schmelzer or Bender or for that matter any Dortmund player.

Kagawa is unfortunate, SAF in my opinion saw that he was the replacement for Rooney. Then we signed RVP which made things even worse for him. Under Moyes I don't think there is a place for him in the team.

Ozwald

Only my opinion but I feel SAF saw Rooney a couple of years ago and thought he was in decline. Rooney had been pictured smoking and turned up not as fit as SAF expected. I feel SAF looked at Kagawa as a replacement for Rooney and possibly planned to link Kagawa with Lewandowski.

Moyes has re motivated Rooney and it leaves Kagawa without a defined place in the team. The rise of Januzaj has also worsened Kagawa's position. I wouldn't be surprised if Kagawa left possibly even as soon as January. I just hope that we use the leverage to get a top player in return.

I'm not sure Kagawa was seen as Rooney's replacement. We all know it is a squad game and I think SAF had a clear picture of Rooney upfront, Hernandez rotating with him and Kagawa in behind. Of course then the opportunity to sign RVP came along and SAF could hardly turn down the chance. Had we not signed RVP then I expect we would've seen Rooney/Kagawa in Europe and the big league games and Rooney/Hernandez against the smaller sides when there is less need for numbers in midfield.

Yeah I think i'm with TK on this, we signed Kagawa before catching wind that RvP could be ours also. Maybe he was meant to be someone to come in and push Rooney. It could have turned out so much more differently say if either RvP or Rooney got injured for a long period of time Kagawa would be starting most games in a central position who knows how well he could have done for us. I remember when we first signed him from Dortmund, after watching him play for BvB he stood out as the player with the best vision and quick decision making on the counter, was so excited about him. Although as most people knows we don't play anywhere near the exciting counter attacking football that we did just 4-5 years ago.

According to SAF we came into the summer 2012 aiming to sign either RVP or Lewandowski, so we were always looking to add a striker. He also claims that Rooney isn't capable playing into his 30s because of his body and bone structure, and tellingly he believed that Rooney's long term future was in midfield. So I'd argue that SAF bought Kagawa as a number 10 behind a new striker with the hope of transitioning Rooney to midfield during the course of the season. The problem was that Rooney wasn't great in midfield and didn't like playing there.

This year Moyes has reverted to 4-4-2 because he doesn't want to upset his star players, unfortunately this means that Kagawa has been shunted to the side and will probably end up leaving. But the bigger problem is that we are stuck with an outdated formation dictated by the desire to keep players happy rather than any real managerial vision for the team. SAF saw the need for change, but Moyes lacks the courage to move forward.

I think Danny is spot on here. I think this was SAF's long-term plan, but last season when he realised Rooney was unwilling to move to midfield, the plan was to sell him and buy a top midfielder.

Rooney playing behind rvp with januzaj and kagawa either side and two holding midfield. the width would come from the fullbacks who would then have cover from the two holders if needed IMHO.

04 Nov 2013 15:33:16
After a great run of wins against a poor Swansea and then Sunderland, Stoke, Palace and Fulham I can totally undestand your feelings that your back.

Sydney! How's the prediction that you'll be top by bonfire night panning out?

Haha everytime marcellus, very predictable now, that's rite u deflect that attention away again!
How are those niggling doubts now?

Hi Marcellus! I have not bothered replying to anything you have ever said! However you seem like a football fan, and not blinded by your own team! Syd loves United like us all, and speaks a lot of sense! So let's look at the season so far! United have played Livepool, Chelsea and rubbishty and despite our poor start are only 3 points off second place! Some bad start? This is what we do! Forget Fergie and Moyes, we kick in at the start of the year, and we have reeled better teams than what is ahead before! Wait and see?

Nice game at Newcastle, really enjoyed it. How many points are we behind the great Chelski and we haven't even played a great game yet. If not for Joe Hart we would be level.

My prediction was wrong, however I thought that would be the case after the WBA game. But let's not forget MU are just 3 points off 2nd. And Arsenal are yet to play ourselves, Chelsea or City. The table is starting to take shape now and I think it will be very close come Christmas. I do not see Arsenal being there at the end of the season. I still believe the title is between ourselves, Chelsea and City.

Marcellus you're not that bright are you, I mean if you take into consideration the big teams we've already played against the teams you lot have played? Not to mention the fact that you've got a big manager in Mourinho that's already been at your club so he needed no time to settle in yet he's hardly been above average. Moyes is only going to get better. Losing to a team like Newcastle that have only won 4 games and lost just as many don't see how you think you're season is looking much better.

Can't imagine we're going to see your name around here come the end of the season.

04 Nov 2013 10:21:11
So as we have had such a bad start to the season, how comes we are only 3 points off 2nd place? A win against Arse, and let's see what the papers write! I personally think se sort of deal was done to bring in a creative midfielder in January, and I believe we may even see a swap deal with Kagawa going back to Dortmund and us getting Gundogan! It's also time to let Welbeck go, we have Tony V, Zaha, Janujaz and Nani, I think we should have Chicarito stay and also go for Benzema?

I do agree with you with parts of what you're saying.

But, benzema is one of the worst forwards at a big club. I wouldn't want him anywhere near United.

We won't be getting Gundogan mate.

Kagawa will have nothing good to say about his time at OT when they speak, and if Gundogan becomes available the big Spanish will be interested and therefore, we'll be out-bidded.

No way Everton would want Zaha . they have Deulofeu the Spanish Under 21 international from Barcelona on loan for two seasons to occupy that position .

Let me get this right, you want to get rid of Welbeck and keep Nani, is there any explanation for this?

The only thing I agree with is the fact we are 3 points off 2nd place despite the press jumping all over us as if we are in the relegation zone. By Christmas things will have evened themselves out and we will be more like out realistic position of 2nd / 3rd.

To be fair, Nani can be outstanding and a match winner at times. But Welbeck has not shown any good qualities other then the fact he is a willing runner. The boy can't finish, dribble or pass.
Benzema is a no go as getting him would not guarantee Chica any more game time and that is what he wants. As for Gundogen, I am sure he is aware that Shinji has not been playing all that well (Admittedly may be due to confidence issues or playing time) and would know things are not going to be the same for him as they would for Shinji.

Red sky, real and barca might want to buy him but how's he going to get a game?

So GDS2, you think I am wrong? Well we have Janujaz on one wing and Tony V on the other, with Zaha, Giggs and yes Nani as cover! What use is Welbeck out there? Now with RVP and Rooney, why keep Welbeck as Chicarito is much better as a finisher and in my opinion an all round striker!

So there is only 3 points separating Chelsea in 2nd down to us in 8th. Like gds2 said by Christmas we will be in a position where we can then look at the table in a more realistic view. December will be a big big month for us. We have 9 games in December and moyes will have to use the squad to its best to get through the month still challenging on all fronts. But first we have a champions league tie to deal with and then a big game against arsenal.

4 points from the remaining 3 cl games should be enough and only maximum points in the pl will do at the minute.

Red Sky, how many more midfielders can the top Spanish sides take? Some of the best are not getting games!

04 Nov 2013 14:18:42
We need either Gundogan or Koke, both are players Barca have identified as potential replacements for Xavi, but they won't sign both. Real Madrid have Illarramendi and Modric as their main midfield pairing going forward and are unlikely to go all out for Gundogan, and are unlikely to be in the running for getting Koke off of their bitter rivals in Atletico Madrid. So I expect to see Koke go to Barca leaving us a real good chance of signing Gundogan who only recently described us as his dream club.

Now I don't wanna get peoples hopes up but if we do try and sign Gundogan then I expect we have a really good chance of signing him. He has shown a willingness to move to us, Dortmund are expecting him to leave as his contract is running down, and we have Kagawa who is kean on a return to Dortmund and who Dortmund are also kean on resigning.

In an ideal world i'd like to see us sign Gundogan, Mangala, Konoplyanka, Barkley and Coentrao/Baines.

With Rio, Evra, Fabio, Anderson, Young, Nani, Kagawa leaving. If Hernandez feels he has to move on then we will need to sign another striker.

Andrew B and Shano,

Not saying you aren't right, but it doesn't matter. The lure of joining those clubs is simply a lot greater - other top players have gone there with fans asking 'when will they get a game'.

I would bet big money on Gundogan's next move being to La Liga.

Stop its Shappy, you are giving me a wet dream. I hope and pray you are right and we sign those players, but with moyes and Ed Woodward around I fear scholes will be recalled along with Gibson being resigned along with obertan and Bellion.

Shappy, I thought fabragas was xavi's replacement?

red sky, agreed the pull of barca or real is irresistible for most players but utd is still a massive draw.

most players want to play every week so they must look at their chances of getting a game as a big factor of where they move to.

gundogan must know that if he moved to utd, he'd be the midfield daddy with a guaranteed start every week. I guess it all boils down to the priorities of the individual player.

my hope is that utd sign two box to box midfielders of gundogan's quality. its what the team needs if we are really serious about challenging at the top level.