Manchester United Banter Archive October 04 2013

04 Oct 2013 20:40:10
Putting aside Moye's potential cock ups with coaching staff, transfers and formations, the main thing I'm annoyed about is the type of football that's been served up since he arrived and to some extent for the last few years under ferguson.

I watch football to be thrilled and entertained. As far as I'm concerned that's the whole point of it. If it's not exciting then what are we all bothering for? Sure it's great to win games and feel superior about supporting the best team but what's the use in that if we all fall asleep along the way?

I don't know about anyone else but the lack of skillfull and scintlating play from from Utd recently has really taken the edge off my excitement in watching the team. It's like trying to be enthusiastic about going to watch a movie which your missus wants to see but you know will be crap.

Perhaps there's a poll in this somewhere for the eds to put up. Would you prefer Utd are:

a) boring to watch and really successful in all competitions

or

b) exciting to watch but less likely to win things {Ed007's Note - I'll get that set up Andrew.}

Rather watch exciting football and be a mid table side than watch this crap moyes is serving up

Ask the Arsenal fans Andy.

05 Oct 2013 04:13:59
Well either a or b would be preferable to the option c we seem to be getting atm. Which of course is poor football and little chance of winning anything.

Good post Andy. But lots of teams, in fact, most of the successful teams in Europe play exciting football. Barca, bayern, Dortmund, Real, PSG. Even juventus play more exciting football than us.
So it doesn't have to be that if u want to win things, then u must play boring football. In fact, the opposite is true. All the top teams are playing high tempo exciting football.

Completely agree Andrew. Attacking free flowing football for me.

the stuff that young raw gifted talents produce. Lingard Zaha Powell and Adnan would produce.

As we found in with the class of 92 you can win with kids. Although I do accept the other posters comments on Arsenal.

i genuinely believe that wining trophies is a by product of great attacking football. Mourniho and Greece in the euros aside.

Rather win boring than exciting and not win mate. The reality is winning generally comes with good play.

I don't think its unrealistic or greedy to want both. A club like our should demand both. Manchester United should not settle for one or the other. If we had started this season playing good and entertaining football but still had the same points as we are on now, I think most fans would be far less concerned than they are now. Its not just the results that we are pi55ed off about, but more about the way the team is playing, tactics and team selections. The sooner the new management, and owners, realise that then the sooner they can address the issue.

Arsenal haven't been very exciting for several years, it's another media myth - they used to be exciting/great passers, so when the media want to slag them off they make out that they still are and their recent performance is terrible compared.

We are BORING - a game would finish and I couldn't wait until Utd were next on. Now I only get that feeling 5 minutes before kick off, in the hope that we eventually wake up. That's gone down from 20 minutes last season. Eventually I won't even realise we are on the tv because our chance creation numbers are dwindling by the game, more fun watching footy down the park.

Rather get beat playing entertaining footy than win with this horrible version of the game.

I am one Arsenal fan who would rather be 4th under Arsene than 1st under George if they were the only choices.

But trust me after a while you would need to see your team competing to be really happy and if Moyes gave you a two seasons of 4th but played like Barca of two years ago, he would be fighting to save his job

Tbh honest I enjoyed it last season, even though we didn't play attractive football.I enjoyed proving our doubters who thought that we would finish 4th after the Tottenham game at OT wrong, the fascinating comebacks, the derby wins etc.Imo success should be the main priority, but a club like Manchester United should be both successful and attractive at the same time.

Nicolas

I agree. If you can win whilst not at your best, there is a lot more to come when you get the missing pieces.

04 Oct 2013 20:49:51
One of the ways you judge a manager is by what he leaves behind. Martinez is benefitting from a very strong Everton defence and academy, both of which Moyes was responsible for.
Sir Alex left an incredibly strong club but a poor first team, in terms of the modfield. David moyes has to deal with that. I totally agree that he has not yet got it right but he does need time to adapt to expectations as to the style of play and the need to win every game.
To all the people who say he never won anything at Everton, well how many managers have won, competing against Sir Alex with no money?
If sir Alex had been in charge of Celtic or Rangers with the money they had, no manager would have taken Aberdeen to the Cup Winners Cup.
The only clubs outside of the elite group and yes I do include Liverpool in that group, who did not then get relegated to win an FA cup in the Ferguson era is Everton.
I don't look at the Carling cup because if you are competing in the Champions League you don't bother with it.
So please let's get real and give David Moyes the time Sir Alex had to develop his team and his structure. If in 2/3 years he has not got a quality team and is not producing good young players coming through then fine he should leave. But be fair and respect the fact that Sir Alex believed he was the right man to take over.

Great post. Let's back the boss.

But moyes wasnt the manager in '95 when they won the fa cup so I don't see the relevance, unless you are saying that everton used to win trophies before moyes took the helm and made them a hard to beat top 15 club and was happy with that.
mick the red fireman.

So we should also be thankful that saf spent £7mill on bebe who he had never seen play :)

GD62 . You're right. You can judge a manager on what they leave behind. My preference is to judge a manager on what they've won which is why I think Moyes is such a poor choice. You could also judge them on their style of football.which is why Moyes is such a poor choice. Everyone on here who supports Moyes states that SAF left the squad in a poor state. If that's true then it's because SAF choice of signings toward the end were poor. DM was also SAF choice:-(

He also signed Cantona for 2 mill but let's not mention that

Everyone keeps saying to give moyes time but why there was a few new managers at clubs this year and none of them are playing the s~~t we are

I reckon in over 20 years I could have signed a Cantona or two, the odds are there. Fergies transfer deals were very hit and miss, you could tell he either outsourced it, or was motivated by money. Some of the players we signed are a disgrace

Tiabi, Prunier, Belion, Bebe, Djemba-Djemba, Kleberson, just off the top of my head - blatantly something behind the scenes in getting those in, friendly handshakes with agents by somebody.

Unitedrd 71 - Great point.

04 Oct 2013 17:56:23
interesting analysis on UTD after the euro game on irish TV by dietmar hamann, was saying most players (on any team) wouldn't be happy with their manager coming out and saying "i need 5 or 6 world class players to win champs league" and "they won a poor EPL last year" as moyes has done recently. He reckons that moyes has already lost half the dressing room and doesn't see anyway back for him, reckons he's on a hiding to nothing.
Just reckon this is the first person i've heard on TV echoing what a lot of people on this site thinks, ie moyes not good enough and will be eventually sacked.

He didn't say "I need 5 or 6 world-class players to win the UCL" he said "if you look at the clubs who win the UCL, they have 5 or 6 world-class players."

People are getting a bit confused with these quotes. He isn't saying the club need to buy an extra 5 or 6 world-class players, he's saying a team needs 5 or 6 world-class players.

I think it's odd that people like Dietmar Hamann cannot tell the difference.

There are several MU players who know they are not world-class. I do not see how it could offend them.

Syd if he said you need 5 or 6 world class players to win the c/l then he's admitting defeat and getting his excuses in because if that's the case were not at the races

Like Sydney said the players know themselves we're not nearly strong enough in europe! Even with Fergie for the past 4-5 seasons we haven't looked that strong, the season we met Barca in the final of the CL we came up against fairly competition until Barca.

Also when has Moyes ever said "they won a poor EPL last year"?

Shock sharham ure not happy lol are u ever?

The objective Liverpool pundit, clearly we should give Moyes the boot. Anyone got the Glazers number?

Ozwald let's not rewrite history. We won the champs league 5 years ago and been in 2 further finals.

We were outplayed though in them.

The squad the manager and the owners is poor.

04 Oct 2013 15:45:57
May not mean a lot to most of you but for some of us who are members of UBF it is a day to remember 6 foot 2 eyes of blue. Big Jim Holton. Gone but never forgotten. Oh and a happy belated birthday to Willie Morgan for the 2nd a wonderful player in the wrong team. His autobiography is out at the end of the month and promises to be a great read especially the bits about Docherty.

Trust it to Kloot to claim the Mourners step, and station his "True" supporters stance. Very Classy.

Yes, I remember the song for Jim Holton, and didn't Docherty sign him from Shrewsbury Town (along with most of the then Scottish team?
I did hear a rumour from my neighbour that Willie Morgan had fallen on hard times, but no actual knowledge myself.
Red Setter

Six foot two, eyes of blue, big Jim Holton's after you.
He had a great attitude and always gave his all.

Big hero to a lot of old reds sadly missed. Remember standing in section k of the starboard end singing his song
Jim and Martin. Buchan wow what a partnership that was would grace any united team
sadly missed along with a lot of united greats

Its a wonder no ones asked you what ubf means yet kloot :)

I remember watching Holton he scared everyone to death! Very unlucky with injuries. I remember watching Morgan too. Signing Coppell saw the end of him at United really. But Buchan was my hero. I always wanted the number 6 when I played.

There is no point asking Kloot anything he never has the courtesy to reply!

There is no point asking Kloot anything he never has the courtesy to reply!

04 Oct 2013 13:59:07
Sorry for some copy and pasting here lads, just a few of Moyes' comments either yesterday or today.

"Manchester United is a good club, I am sure they know they picked the right man for the job. Sir Alex was part of that process as well."

''It's a long season. We'll hang in there and get ourselves as close to the top as soon as we can''

It just reaffirms what we have been seeing on the pitch and the touchline, there is an inherent sense of uncertainty around the club at the minute. For the manager of arguably the worlds biggest club to be saying that we'll ''hang in there'' in regards to a title we have won 20 times is worrying.

This transition was never going to be easy. and I'm behind the team 100%, but I have to say that something needs to happen soon. be it a change in style, some coaching changes or whatever. something just isn't right.

I will stand by what i've been saying that we will not win the league this year, but we need to be in the top 3 by Christmas or I can very well see us struggling to get top 4.

I think u read far to much into his comments tbh

I'm not basing my opinions on his comments alone. i'm basing them on the lack luster performances we've seen. some comments from players saying that something isn't quite right. and the fact we've had our worst start in over 20 years!

04 Oct 2013 20:12:44
I think we need that big name signing to spark the squad into life. Look at RVP last year and Ozil this year for Arsenal. We need that every year. I mentioned in a previous post that Roy Keane mentioned we needed to shake the squad up every 3 years or so. I was criticised by some, however these comments were made when he was a player. Far too many players are comfortable. We need that fight for squad places and at least 2 world class players. We are in massive danger of going backwards whilst others move forward. We need to be ruthless in the transfer market and show out intent. It's World Cup season and we need to do deals early or in January. Admittedly not easy but we'll only look like muppets again if we have a transfer window farce again. After all people at the club are actually paid to be good at this sort if stuff! Rant over! :-)

Adz

04 Oct 2013 11:55:24
Moyes supporters still think that he needs more time or you would like us to finish same places as Everton / Stoke?
Games are getting Dull to watch.

Can anyone tell me what is wrong with Van Persie lately?

Pretty simple really, he's getting no service

When Moyes was appointed I was impartial, I sat on the fence as I wasnt sure what to think. He looked like he did a good job at Everton on the infamous "shoestring budget". He looked solid, and had the longevity to him that Utd needed.
I work with a couple Everton fans, they said he will make Utd hard to beat, but will take all the fun and excitement out of the game with negative tactics and defensive approach.
I argued the point at the time, saying its Man Utd, Moyes will have to adapt and learn the way we play. Low and behold its gone the other way, we are playing boring, uninspiring football which is painful to watch. I read something yesterday which said "How to judge Moyes, is to look how Everton are doing now they have rid themselves of the Moyes burden" Its a great point. Martinez plays attacking football and Everton are looking good. We however look poor.

Rant Over. for now

Roberto martinez switched clubs, he doesn't show he needs more time.
pep joined bayern, he is doing good there.
pellegrini joined city with no premier league experience. he is not struggling.

I really hate some over optimists here. why not being honest with yourself and say that moyes is struggling to fulfill the big shoe. he isn't doing even ok. 11 years of experience in EPL, but where are the tactics? where is the trust in young prospects?
squad is simply weak in almost all area except forwards. so is moyes clueless with his illogical substitutions. and team selections.

players like kagawa. zaha. lingaard. fabio. janujaz is much batter than a few who's starting regularly like young, welback, valencia, stop-gap right backs. and CENTURY OLD GIGGS.

i m not over reacting but is there anything going in positive direction right now?

You have to give ANY new manager time.

Is he the right appointment? Quite possibly not however he IS the managerial appointment.

Get behind THE TEAM.

I find it interesting that some of you are comparing Moyes to Martinez and Guardiola in terms of how they have hit the ground running. Perhaps, just perhaps they hit the ground running due to the state their clubs were left in by their respective former managers? Martinez has inherited a very good side that was built by a certain David Moyes. As much of a legend that Fergie is, I think it's time we started facing the fact that, in terms of the quality in our side, SAF didn't leave us in quite as healthy position as some of you would like to believe, regardless of the fact we won the title last season.

Exactly TK-Red, he got out before his reputation was tarnished. Not even Fergie could have done much better with the squad available to Moyes. He wouldn't have attacked like the old days because we have been getting more boring by the game for the past 3 years.

A more adventurous manager would have done something different, but Mourinho would be in the exact same position as Moyes - relying on a doddery defence and nominal creative prowess to eak 1-0 wins.

1-0 against Sunderland - almost guaranteed.

TK-Red are you being serious? Everton was hardly left in good shape, they're in a shed load of debt, they have/had players like Naismith, Hibbert, Distin, Anichebe, Jelavic, Vellios etcetera hardly a great team Martinez has made it great with the additions of Mccarthy, Barry, Deulofeu and especially Lukaku, but without a doubt Moyes has the better team it all boils down to the fact that Martinez plays positive football whereas Moyes is an old fossil.

If you look at where Everton were at the beginning of David Moyes' reign and where they were at the end then there really is no comparison. The club were near ruin at one stage but David Moyes' built them into a good side and helped build a stable club. Moyes turned them into a team that challenges for Europe, brought in good players and sold some of them on for big money. Had Arsene Wenger done what Moyes had at Everton we would be saying he was a miracle worker. You say that Martinez has done a better job than Moyes at Everton and named a few players he has brought in but do you really think he would've been in a position to do so had it not been for all of David Moyes good work previously? Martinez is being allowed to build on the foundations that David Moyes put in place, that shouldn't be forgotten.

MrSween, i'm sure we are champions with the squad managed by SAF. So of course he did better than Moyes!

However this team has been in decline since 2009-10. Although we did make a trio a champions league finals.

this team is finished. i'm currently reading the 'class of 92' in which SAF quotes teams have a cycle of 5 years. That cycle has ended and a new re-build is required.

SAF should of gone 2008 and given the new manager an excellent team.

So only a few tweaks were required.

Id say that De Gea Rooney and RVP are the only first teamers we don't need to replace. May be Raphael and possibly Vidic.

Had saf stayed we would be seeing a totally different team now.

Rooney and NANi would be gone.

Kagawa would be playing in the middle with thiago and possibly strootman. I am sure that we would then be playing a more fluid attacking game but we will never know. there is talk of kagawa leaving, but if Rooney does not sign a new contract then he will go and DM would be mad to then let kagawa leave as well. He may need time to settle in but the early signs are not very positive. But hey before fergie won his first title there were calls for his head too, so maybe there is hope for us all.

Treble1999 - Last season was totally different, all of our competitors luckily underperformed, but now they seem to have clicked and have strengthened even more. We are a year older and look 5 years older. Plus we have the likes of Liverpool and Tottenham now looking to compete at the top.

I agree 100% with everything else in your post. Aside from Rafael is definitely class, no maybe's on that one.

04 Oct 2013 10:10:12
So more rumours, kagawa going back to Dortmund, zaha to be loaned out. Young and Valencia played ahead of more skilful players. Fellaini added for his supposed power and strength.
Do we see a pattern developing here? Get any skilful players out and bring in players who will run around all day and achieve nothing.
Does this remind us of any team in the PL? you guessed it Everton under Moyes!

Yes one step away from playing like stoke under pulis moyes as managed to take a team that granted was not brilliant last year but could score goals for fun and turn them in to a team that looks like it as just been put together what we have seen up to yet dose not bold well for the future. what is everybodys thoughts if even after he selects his own players he contiuse to play this dower football

He is one of stubborn managers who just want to employee his style of play without looking at players.
in everton he had hard working players. in here he has century old players on whom he trust most till now who demand bonus for that extra hard work. yet can't do it. slow players like carrik. fellaini. rio. evra. and express donkies like young and valencia.

he should understand his players. find best of them and make formation and tactics according to them, rather forcing them to play his style. till trasfer window opens and he got his desired players.

right now he is almost killing the united way

04 Oct 2013 02:28:57
Bloody hell Tel is back, thought you were dead mate after all the gob you gave last season only to disappear like your team

Got your balls back have you?