Manchester United Banter Archive April 05 2013

05 Apr 2013 23:28:25
Hi all, Liverpool fan here (IN PEACE!lol) i'm just wondering who would you rather beat:

Liverpool
or
Man City

purely the team rather than whether its for a cup/title.

?

Cheers,

blaze

Both, that's what makes us different ; )

As much as I would like to put our noisy neighbours in their place and shut them up the United Liverpool rivalry always gets me fired up so it would have to be Liverpool

06 Apr 2013 00:14:19
Up until a few years ago I would have said Liverpool hands down. But as they have regressed and City have gotten stronger that balance has tipped. This season it has to be City just because of our results against them last season. But I do always look forward to the games against Liverpool more than any other due to what it means both historically and emotionally.

06 Apr 2013 00:33:26
until last season I would always have said you lot but nowadays probably them even if it was a friendly, in saying that if yous do beat us we don't tend to stop hearing about it for months. I don't know can't I just hate yous equally?

To be honest, with the current state of Liverpool, I certainly expect us to beat them. Even though it is extremely satisfying to win against you, it used to be so much better when you actually were at competing trend with us. For me, winning against rubbishty is a bigger achievement nowadays, and keeping in mind all the oil-money that has been invested in that dirty club, nothing would be better than to demolish them and see them fail, especially after last season. However, if we look at it from a historic perspective, the United-Pool rivalry is much more prestigious than United-rubbishty. Probably because rubbishty used to be a wee-club, until the arab money. Tough question, but for now I will answer rubbishty. But that is just my opinion.

ZigZag

Liverpool defo, half my pals are scouse so its always good banter on match day, but city is still a big game even though half their fans where chelsea fans a couple of seasons ago and arsenal fans before that ha ha

Beating Liverpool feels better, losing to City feels worse.

BornInToIt

05 Apr 2013 19:49:00
Until three weeks back, we were in for a 'treble'. Then last week we felt short of a domestic 'double'. Had so much expectation from United this year. Now, our only shot left is a 'derby double' on Monday. I hope SAF fills a strong team come monday and removes evenly the slightest mathematical chance at the title.
Looking ahead.

We were never ready for a treble. 1-2 year's away from challenging on all four fronts IMO.

No, our only shot left is the league title.

Never in for Europe but the double was likely and should have put chelsea away at home. I have a feeling Wigan will win the FA cup believe it or not.

Shahram

People expecting the treble were being unrealistic. At the start of the season we were worried about the EPL let alone the CL. I was hoping a few weeks back we'd have a shot at the double but the one we really need is the league. City winning twice in a row would have been hard to take and if we do go on to top the league it will be every bit as important (if not more) as when we won it back from Arsenal and Chelsea.

06 Apr 2013 00:19:00
Shahram, I hope your right and Wigan do win the FA cup. I've had a soft spot for them since Martinez took over. He's one of the few genuine good guys in football, he never shys away and says it how he sees it. And is always gracious. He tries to get Wigan to play good attacking footbalk on a tiny budget and he has shown loyalty to the club and chairman when other would not have done. For alk this I feel he and Wigan deserve ti win the cup.

I think city will beat chelsea and FA cup finals are so unpredictable and Wigan are playing some good football.

Chelsea's schedule might be their undoing even in the league and expect to see the top 4 places decided on the final day of the season. Even though I hate to say it the Scousers might be in there with a shout.

Shahram

My god sharam am glad am not betting with you

LOL, I would bet on Wigan if the odds were good. I did not say Liverpool will be in there but they will be closer than most of you guys think.

Chelsea has a very tough run in and spurs look wobbly to me. Huge win for Arsenal today.

An Everton win tomm would make things very interesting:)

Shahram

05 Apr 2013 16:27:59
With the talk about Zaha being groomed into a top player, I was just wondering, for someone who hasn't watched him closely, is he even close to Ronaldo at the same age?
Who would you compare him with, if at all?
Bebe/Nani/Ronaldo?

Probably the physicality of Bebe, the dribbling style of an old Nani. I do not see any similarities to Ronaldo and Ronaldo was well ahead of Zaha at the same age, but as we know players develop at different ages and Zaha has immense potential if he can work on his end product. He will not get to the level of Ronaldo, but he will be better than Nani. That's my opinion anyway.

Sydney!

Sydney's description s pretty accurate. the only thing close to ronaldo would b the brand of shoes he might be wearing :)

Shahram

Sydney. ? Shahram. ? 2 posters I hold (held lol) in high regard. Surely you have noticed that Zahas favourite trick is that of Ronaldos. The sprinting down the wing then backheeling 90' towards middle pitch. Can send 2 defenders into each other it's that good lol. But admittedly, this is the main Similarity to Ronny. He is definately a good signing. But obviously nowhere near Ronny, who is IMO possibly the 2nd greatest player EVER!

Lets face it Ronny is a one off freak. I don't think anyone currently coming up will get close to him.

Patzi

No one can shoot like ronny with both feet and what he does to the ball is sick. Whilst Zaha has some tricks he does not move at the same pace with the ball at his feet as Christiano does. If he gets to 80 percent the player CR07 is we have a gem.

Shahram

Hmmmm, but only boots? Lol.

05 Apr 2013 14:40:53
What are people's opinion on birminghams nathan Redmond. He's a young player I was always rated and it seems he is really starting to hit form. Wouldn't be expensive and I think having two young English wingers zaha and Redmond could be exciting for the future

19JackC94

We don't want to buy another young winger like himself to develop. We need a top class winger such as Rodriguez.

Zaha can be the winger we develop into a star.

05 Apr 2013 12:32:49
Ed! Do we have any interest in Jordy Clasie or Nemanja Matic?

What's other's opinion about these two players. Are these really Manchester United Standard?


Victor J. {Ed004's Note - Not sure}

05 Apr 2013 08:42:30
Now listen guys, I might not be the most optimistic when it comes to this united midfield, but if saf plays the right tactics, meaning only ONE winger and playing a high number in midfield, then we will beat city.
If saf decides to stick to his 442, then I can see us losing, as our wingers are not firing at the moment.
Nomidfield

Mate if fergie goes for and out and out 4-4-2 we will lose control of them game in midfield. Kagawa needs to play!
Chris the REDman

That's exactly what he said Chris the REDman

-Saad

We rarely play 4_4_2 certainly not against the better teams why would we start now

Rarely play 4-4-2? I can't tell if you're being sarcastic

Redman

Why does Kagawa need to play, he has done nothing this season to warrant a place in the starting line up apart from one really good game and maybe 2-3 half decent performances.
Im really worried that this kid isn't going to fit into our system, the game seems to pass him by and he doesn't get into those little pockets of space to create like he did at Dortmund. i'm not saying that the kid isn't talented but I just don't think that our system and the English game suits him. I could be wrong and I hope i'm wrong but I really think he is going to struggle over here.

Simmo

-saad
where in my reply does it seem i'm disagreeing with him? I was agreeing and stating I think Kags needs to play.
Simmo kagawa must play simply because we need to give them something to get there dm's thinking about, its not like your writing kags off at all is it after his debut season. The boy is adjusting to pl football, for me we need to push them right back into there own half as when there forced to play short 5 yard passes across there back four there build up play is much to slow to penetrate us, much like us this season imo, so in saying that I would play 4 interchanging forwards in rooney, rvp, wellbeck and kags and move them into area's they dnt wanna play in thus getting them to make mistakes. No name we rarely play 442? I think we have played that a lot this season, the diamond isn't suited to our players yet so I expect inside forwards and an attcking midfielder to play behind rvp with carrick and cleverly holding maybe giggs in for wellbeck.

Chris the Redman

Hovever you look at it Kagawa in my opinion shouldn't start against Man City. You said it your self that he is adjusting to the Premier League. We can't afford any passengers against Man City. He is simply too inconsistent at this moment and it is like playing with 10 men. He really struggles when the game is played at such a high tempo and it will be played at a high tempo, he will be a passenger.
One player I would play in the Midfield is Phil Jones, the amount of space he covers is unreal and he will be vital breaking up the play and keeping tabs on Yaya Toure, he must start in my opinion.

Simmo

We rarely play 4_4_2 we don't play s ridgid formation we play 4_3_3, 4_5_1, 4_2_3_1, or 4_4_1_1 normally switching between these formations during 90 minutes this is the fluid style we have been moving towards over the last few year
Against any of the better teams we will have 5. In the middle we haven't played a proper 4_4_2 since yorke and Cole

Simmo

You make a valid point on Kagawa but it has nothing to do with the English game IMO it's just the way we set up at the moment. If you look at how City set up - I think Kagawa would thrive in the 'Silva role' or in place of Nasri. Similarly with Chelsea, he would do well linking with any 2 from Mata/Hazard/Oscar. What this tells me is we need to evolve our style a bit to make the most of him. And to do this we need at least 1 or maybe 2 more technical, ball players in and around him - so we can break quickly through good link up play and put the opposition on the back foot. If we buy a good midfielder who can pick out a forward pass alongside Carrick and a good ball playing inverted winger (Rodriguez? Gaitan?) I think we will see the best of Kagawa. But if we stick to our traditional wing play and fail to buy more technically gifed players to link up with him he may struggle IMO.

HoneyBadger

I understand what you mean and he may well thrive with better techinal players around him but I am talking about this season. Our midfield is basically Micheal Carick, the other midfielders like Cleverley and Anderson are just not good enough to play that system. They don't create or score goals. Anderson very rarely gets out of Mcdonalds without getting injured.
My midfield would be:-
Jones Carrick
Nani or Valencia Young or Welbeck
Rooney
RVP
Rooney coming a bit deeper to make things happen.

Simmo

So every time we play Valencia on the right and either nani or young on the left, what formation is that? We need to play our midfielders and match city in that department, otherwise, they will win. Simple as that. If fergie plays two wingers, then we're screwed.

Its called 2, 3, 1 mr no name
Derrrrrr

Simmo kagawa has not really had 1 bad game. even if he hasn't been playing at his best you cannot say he's been terrible like nani cleverly and anderson to name a few. so for his first season I would give him respect and look forward to the future. the lad is going to be immense

05 Apr 2013 04:04:46
Just wanted to ask you guys, Eds included, if you have any information on Cirigliano.

I've watched him a couple of times and have a decent opinion of him but if anyone is a follower of River Plate, he would know much better.

Cirigliano is a defensive midfielder, intelligent and reads the game well. He is a good tackler also, but not the most imposing of defensive midfielders. He is rather small ( 5ft 7 ) and not very stalky. He is great with the ball at his feet, decent dribbler and a Cleverley type approach to the game. Argentines seem to think he is the new Mascherano but physique aside, they don't have much in common.

Now my personal intake on defensive minded midfielders. IMO, to be a truely great defensive midfielder, I think a player needs something extra. He has to be able to put the fear of god in opposing players.

If you look at the truely great defensive/ box to box midfielders, they all have something in common. They bully opposing players and take the game by the scruff of the neck.
And in order to have that effect, they must have certain attributes. It might be their physique and surhuman strength that gives them the edge ( Viera, Toure ), a certain psychotic side that makes opposing players want to hide in their room and cry ( Gatusso, Makelele to a certain extent and Mascherano ) or even both ( Keane anyone? ).

Atm, we are beeing strongly linked to Strootman. Other than a great passing range, a great engine and a very smart footballing head, Strootman is an impressive figure, mentally and physically imposing. Opposing players know you shoukd not scr** around with him, his team mates are intimidated and driven by him. That makes him the perfect leader to any midfield, and the perfect captain. He has also been involved in a couple of on field accidents which, imo, only makes him more suitable. He is like a more modern, more balanced less psychotic Roy Keane. I think we should go all out for him and not give Milan a chance for his signature. He said he prefers the premier league and considering his quality and characteristics, I don't think money should be an object.

The other player we are reportedly targeting is Wanyama. He offers a physical presence few pther can rival. If we only get one midfielder in the summer, he would be my second choice after Strootman. I think that Phil Jones would be able to do the job Wanyama is supposed to but imo Jones will never be a great midfielder. He can become an excellent midfielder, but his potential as a centre back is world class.

Mick {Ed002's Note - Manchester United, Manchester City and Genoa enquired after Ezequiel Cirigliano last season. Juventus, Milan and Inter Milan have enquired this season. But Napoli have sustained interest and are continuing to push to complete a transfer after it nearly happening in the summer. They or one of the MIlan clubs seem a likely destination right now. Inter seem him as an alternate to Paulinho.}

Brilliant post, I agree with everything you said. Strootman is what we need, no question about it. I watch quite a bit of the Eredivisie due to my cousins being Dutch even though they are Vitesse I still watch PSV and every game i've seen him play he's been impressive especially in the first half of the season I can't remember who it was against but he absolutely bossed the game as of then I've wanted him wearing our number 8, I think he would slot in perfectly and now he have 2 Dutch players at the club he will have someone to talk to/get him involved in the squad. I think a bid of 12-16m will do it.

Totally agree, Strootman is perfect.
Im really worried that Fergie will not buy a midfielder, we are desperate for at least one maybe two in that central area.
If Fergie wants another crack at the Champions League surely he has to realise the midfield is the key area that we need to strengthen to get back to the level we were at 4-5 years ago.

Simmo

Top post Mick and thanks for the info. on Crigliano as I knew next to nothing about him.

Strootman sounds like a top option and I really hope we get him. I'd be excited at the prospect of having another leader and dominant player at the club, above all else. His progression to date and age make him all the more impressive.

I did want us to get both Strootman & Wanyama which would really sort out our midfield. But I'm starting to see it the same way you do - we only really need a DM in max. 10-15 games per season so Jones should be more than able to slot in at these times (even though I see him as Vidic' long term successor). Paying up to £15m for Wanyama when we don't need him most games may not make sense, which is a shame as he's a real prospect!

So Strootman would sure up our midfield and may be the only CM we buy. But if we do buy a 2nd I'd be delighted if it was a technically gifted ball player like Modric (ideally) or Veratti as examples. They would take Cleverly's place and make him work harder to get game time. Slot one of Modric/Veratti alongside Carrick/Strootman and our front 4 would be treated to excellent service from the middle of the field! We still have the option of partnering Carrick with Stroot in tougher games or even a 3 man midfield involving Jones in even tougher games.

Perhaps I'm hoping for a bit much here but let's hope we fially sort out the midfield this summer!

Mick you are making strootman into some super hero and I have watched a ton of games and he is not what you are describing.

One thing with him which is a little worry is his positioning and can a pacy midfielder can turn him run away from him. I have seen this in numerous games and yes he does foul them when that happens and not scared of putting a foot in.

He also plays a lot higher up the pitch that and that is a potential issue with Rooney and Kagawa.

He will be useful in certain games if we set up a certain way but he is no moura, hazard, Ozil, Goetze and I still think the manager will be buying someone of that mould given last summers interest that did not bear fruit.

Shahram

Shahram - Why did you compare Strootman to all attacking players when he is not an attacking midfielder. He is a box 2 box player simple as that completely different to any of the mentioned players. Bizzare statement from you.

I was not comparing him to an attacking midfielder. I was mentioning that last year we were close to spending a large chunk of money on one and believe the manger is still looking for one.

I know everyone believes he is our midfield signing for the summer but I really think the manager is after a hazard/matta style midfielder even if he bought strootman.

Strootman plays much higher up the pitch and not sure how to describe him best. He does quite few things well but nothing that is outstanding. I really can't make up my mind on him although Mick's description of a Keane type player is not too far off but not as combative as Keane.

One thing for sure is if we buy him, cleverly will get a lot less games.

Shahram

05 Apr 2013 00:40:22
When was the last time a high profile player plus cash deal was done? Eto'o & Ibrahimovic maybe, I think people get far too carried away suggesting:

Nani + 30 million = Ronaldo etc.

Anderson plus cash for Rodriguez would be the only one I could even imagine, so let's try and be realistic guys.

Gpot7

Pazzini- Cassano + 7 mil €

Mick