Manchester United Banter Archive January 05 2018

05 Jan 2018 22:48:38
Loving seeing Jesse in the form he's in at the minute. Always been a fan, and Fergie always said he'd be a late developer.

He could so easily have been discarded like so many others who don't get the chance for one reason or another, and here he is now, a regular in the first team at his hometown club. His performances are becoming so much more consistent with experience. He must be pushing Dele Alli for an automatic World Cup spot now.

Chuffed to bits for him. I always get a bit more pleasure seeing someone like him making it, then someone we've spunked x amount of millions on.

His celebration moves still bug the diddies off me.

05 Jan 2018 23:17:38
Agree with all that mate especially the celebration bit 😁.

05 Jan 2018 23:31:33
Just got back from the game. Full marks to Lingard he's finally showing some end product and quality to go with his excellent movement and work rate long may it continue!

One quick observation is that we're far too passive when not in possession.
We fall back into a very deep defensive shape and put no pressure on the ball. This allows the opposition to have some easy possession deep in our half. I'd like us to be more aggressive and press teams a lot higher up the pitch especially against inferior opposition. Sometimes we had really good spells of attacking play but then let them off the hook by sitting deep and allowing them easy possession of the football. This helped them to release the pressure we'd built up! I'd like us to work a lot harder when we haven't got the ball and try and win it back a lot quicker. Apart from that I thought our movement and attacking play was decent at times although we definitely lacked a bit of width.

05 Jan 2018 23:44:27
Jesse is in fine form at the moment, and a must have selection for those of us that play fantasy football against friends. If he keeps it up and doesn't go to the World Cup it will be criminal.

05 Jan 2018 23:55:27
Good post Tony and Danny. I will admit I was a massive doubter and didn’t rate the lad but I’m so happy that I am eating humble pie because he has been sensational. His movement both on and off the poor is terrific and he has some shot on him. But above all he works so hard and is an example to the rest of the team. Being a local lad he is living the dream that many of us would give our left arm for.

Danny - great observation on us not pressing aggressively enough without the ball. I agree with that we afford teams too much time on the ball and allow them to drive at us. I thought our link up play and movement was great at times today but if we could press more aggressively as a team without the ball then I think it will improve us massively.

06 Jan 2018 00:06:57
Totally agree Park is it the manager asking them to sit deep in a defensive shape or the players not working hard enough to close the ball down? What ever the reason it drives me mad! We saw similar against Everton in the second half. We'd totally dominated, got ourselves in front then retreated deep and they had a 5-10 spell when they could easily have equalised! Jose's instructions, work rate, fitness or a combination of all three maybe?

06 Jan 2018 00:21:40
Great to see jose developing an academy graduate that has worked hard. He has come through good loan spells and spent seasons as a squad player and can now truly can be considered a fist team player.
Too many young players get too much too soon and let it affect their professionalism and ambition and are not prepared to work as hard as jessie has done. Sitting on the bench and working to prove themselves is too much like hard work or lack of self belief.
I hope other kids like gomes don't feel they have to leave if they are not a regular starter by the age of 20. Harry Kane has been the same he has not been an overnight success and had remained very level headed with his success.

06 Jan 2018 01:16:51
I think it’s tactics Danny. The frustrating thing for me is that we have spells in a game where we are fantastic playing at a good tempo and pace and then we suddenly drop off and invite pressure onto us. Then we have situations where we give away sloppy goals and lack game management. I feel that is also down to leadership in the team. We seriously lack an iconic figure such as Keane, Vidic or Ferdinand who were fergie’s eyes and ears on the pitch. Those players pushed fergie’s instructions and high standards onto the rest of the team and we seriously lack this. Love pogba but I’m not sure if he’s captain material. yet. I do think it is jose’s Style to soak up pressure and wait for a mistake as opposed to the modern way of pressing and forcing the mistake from the opposition. Personally I prefer the later and think we have the speed and players to press from the top but obviously that is not how Jose wants to play.

Ken - something that has really surprised me about Lingard is how hard he works and his attitude when he has not been getting into the team. Has not sulked or shown bad attitude and that has been refreshing. He is still a bit eccentric and immature from what I have seen from social media but as long as he keeps producing the goods I couldn’t care less!

06 Jan 2018 06:09:13
Park, Noucamp is Stevie mate. On the subject of Lingard he is currently massiveLy outperforming Ali so it will be interesting to see who Southgate picks. I really hope he can maintain this level of energy and contribution, it’s really refreshing.

Stevie, he’s still a young kid, remember Giggs, Sharpe, Ince all doing their silly little dances? If he keeps scoring he can celebrate all he wants mate.

06 Jan 2018 09:55:55
Linders is great example of a player that is playing at the top of his game .
City have 11 constantly doing it .
Decent squad this.

06 Jan 2018 10:17:05
Been saying this for a while Danny. It really frustrates me when we sit deep. Of course, it's a lot less work than pressing high. So is the manager telling them to do it or are the players taking the easy option? I think it is mourinho asking them to sit back. Not a great tactic as the opposition have no one to beat until they get 30 yards from our goal.

05 Jan 2018 22:12:49
I enjoyed the performance tonight. Carson had a good game for derby. I think we could have done more to test him though. Great link up play at times, especially for Lukakus goal. I thought Lindelof play well at rb. Shaw got up and down and was solid again. The movement was very good, fluid. Rashford was unlucky not to score tonight.
Onwards and forwards to the next game.

05 Jan 2018 17:45:01
Here's a question for everyone.
We played well against Everton, especially going forward.

So was it because we had an extra midfielder on the pitch?

or

Because with Martial as our main striker we had a more fluid front line?

05 Jan 2018 18:11:53
Interesting question shappy. I think it is a bit of both. Having the extra man in midfield took massive pressure off matic and released the shackles off pogba to express himself further up the pitch without having to worry as much about his defensive responsibilities. You can also argue that the way Everton set up compact and defensive meant that having a fluid front line of martial and lingard was perfect as Everton did not have an obvious target man (lukaku) to mark. I personally think we need to revert to 2 up top with Lukaku and martial as that partnership has pace, power and huge goal scoring ability. If they can strike up an understanding then it can rival any team in the premier league. Combine that with Pogba further up the field executing his attacking abilities and you have yourself a tasty attack!

05 Jan 2018 18:17:03
I don't think you can put it down to Any one reason shappy.
How many times tbis session have we scored 4 with lukaku as centre forward?
Or was it down to the form of jessie?
Or that Shaw played well?
Or that martial was running the channels so well?
Or was it because everton offered nothing?
Was it our team shape?
Was it our mindset post half time?
Lots of reasons is the answer it was 90 mins where most played well, everton didn't, we scored 2 worldies but pickford wasn't really overworked at all.

05 Jan 2018 18:18:33
For me the 3 man midfield was the difference. It allows Pogba to push further forward and use his creativity in the final third.

05 Jan 2018 18:33:01
I think we look the most dangerous the further forward we can get Pogba as long as there is protection behind him.

06 Jan 2018 07:35:53
Shappy

I think it was the extra midfield player that gave us better control and the opportunity to express ourselves. It freed Pogba. You control midfield and generally you control the game.

05 Jan 2018 16:58:30
Are we considering buying another DMF?

Matić, although superb, isn't a spring chicken and Leander Dendoncker, of Anderlecht and Rodrigo (Rodri) Hernandez, of Villarreal would be good replacements?

I know José loves Matić he will soon need replacing?

05 Jan 2018 17:05:26
Matic has been here half a season. He isn’t a player who relies on pace, the first few yards are in his head. Quality player who could be in the team for 4-5 years Ronnie.

05 Jan 2018 17:26:17
Matic should be here a few good years, but we will need cover with Carrick likely retiring this year. If Matic needs a rest or is hurt, we need someone there. Blind is positionally disciplined to play there, but also slow, and not as strong as Matic. Herrera is still not convincing in a deeper role, and neither is Fellaini, too foul prone.

05 Jan 2018 17:34:03
I agree caolan. But he can't play every game v club and country like he does at the moment as time goes on. So we do need a good understudy. I have always been hopeful that TFM would grow into that role. But he has not played there.

06 Jan 2018 01:16:21
Caolan but he is still the only dm in the squad i don't think we need to replace him but we do need a player to cover for him if he gets injured or needs rest.

05 Jan 2018 13:10:26
Everton v Liverpool LIVE on BBC! Are they having a giraffe? Who wants to watch that rubbish.
As a BBC licence fee payer I demand that they switch this to the United game immediately.

05 Jan 2018 13:21:43
I saw that. Also no highlights on tonight, which is equally annoying!

05 Jan 2018 10:33:22
Watched Jose in the interview yesterday saying he wants to stay, the only issue l think everyone has is Jose isn't smiling and laughing (Klopp) but l know who would prefer. I think we all pay too much to these mandatory media interviews. If we can play the attacking style football (Everton game) more consistently everyone would love Jose, grumpy or not.

05 Jan 2018 07:43:06
A little hypothetical question-
We sack mourinho at the end of the season, bring in pochettinho and after 2 seasons have played some of the best football ever seen at old Trafford but don't win a trophy

Even if we don't win a trophy this year, after 2 years of mourinho, we would still have a league cup and Europa league after 2 seasons whilst not playing beautiful football but getting results

What would you prefer?

05 Jan 2018 07:53:56
If we play some of the best football ever seen, why would we not win trophies? It doesn’t have to be one or the other, it’s perfectly possible to do both.

05 Jan 2018 08:17:37
Tottenham play some great football, win nothing.

05 Jan 2018 08:47:00
Trophies first. The gunners have had long spells of playing beautiful football so ask them how they feel?

Beautiful eye catching football doesn't necessarilly equate to winning football either.

05 Jan 2018 09:13:05
But to add to the above post, i would like to see both! 🙂.

05 Jan 2018 09:21:01
I'd go for the good football over the trophies.

Most of all I'd settle for getting rid of Jose's negativity both on and off the pitch. What a boring man he is.

05 Jan 2018 09:21:54
Don't get me wrong, so would I but unfortunately with all the money involved now, football is a results first business and so far Jose has results
As I pointed to at a previous post, I would hate to see the reaction if we came 6th and didn't win a trophy last year.

05 Jan 2018 10:20:38
Man utd along with 19 other teams are competing in the prem league.

Competing to win, that is the whole point otherwise it wouldn't be a competition.

Results first aesthetics second. I love the traditional style of play etc but i prefer watching a final where we win.

If its aestheitcs first and results second does that mean fans don't celebrate if we win a major honour?

05 Jan 2018 11:35:33
Results first is the obvious choice, no one wants an "Arsenal" situation at our club.

However, why can't we have both?

I think most fans current issues with style comes from the belief that this group of players are more than capable of playing a more exciting, attractive brand of football.
We have seen it, all be it only in glimpses. I think that is where most fans frustration comes from. When we see that we are comfortably on top for 30-45 minutes but then we go a goal up or it gets to the last 30 minutes and our approach changes and actually puts us under pressure by backing off and inviting teams on to us.
More often than not we still go on to win the game, but when we do that and draw or lose because we stopped having a go at the opposition it rubs fans up the wrong way as they see we could have easily have won the game.

Away to Chelsea and at home to City are the only games where we have been comprehensively outplayed. The draw with Liverpool we could have won had we had a go at them. The other losses and draws we have been well in the game and had every chance of winning those games had we been a little braver and took the game to the opposition a bit more.

05 Jan 2018 12:06:01
Good discussion guys anr i'd definitely be choosing results of style just so we can avoid the arsenal situation.

05 Jan 2018 12:37:23
Watch Arsenal TV and you'll have your answer. Although I would argue that they don't play great football because they defend like a pub team. A defensive team can be admired just as much as an attacking on in terms of the quality of the football. Your taking about entertainment which is something totally different! Football is competitive sport not Hollywood. By definition if you play good football you'll win football matches. Utd have played good football under Jose but not on a consistent basis hence the 15 point gap to City. Everybody would like to win football matches playing with flair and immigintion but the Italians built a dynasty playing very tactical and defensive football which brought them great success. Surely football is all about winning otherwise what's the point of the game I don't really get the debate to be honest!

05 Jan 2018 12:41:39
Ps - Come on Mancman really?

05 Jan 2018 13:18:25
Munich, city, barcelona and psg will win there leagues playing attractive football .

Should we aim to win things or aim to win things playing good footy?

05 Jan 2018 13:46:56
Jose got results so far darv what results the prem is the bread and butter we finished 6th last season now we are 15 points off city your talking like the parking the bus been a huge success.

05 Jan 2018 14:33:08
Perfectly put danny.

05 Jan 2018 14:41:11
Mourinho's going to stick to what he does bes and until he is here you guya going to have to accept the style.

At the end of the day its a results business with there being only one winner so i rather be United continug 2nd then playing attractive footie and missing out on top 4.

I predicted in the begining of the season unit3d as premier league qinnera but that is only because of being a united fan.

There haa definitely been a improvement on last year and given time Moyrinho will win the league in the next 24 months with us.

05 Jan 2018 14:43:24
Tcre, we are second to only a record breaking City team. In any other season over the last 10 years we would be top with the points and goal difference we currently have. Also we are in the top 2-3 for goals scored so far this season, so 17-18 teams have scored less goals than us. So hardly parking the bus, many of those teams below us are lauded for their attacking prowess yet they have scored less than us.

I agree with have played negatively at times, yet more often than not we have beaten teams relatively comfortably. The issue is we have let in a few silly goals, probably by being negative in the final 20-30 minutes of games.

05 Jan 2018 14:48:51
Tcre, compare the two seasons:

This time last year we had 41 points, scoring 33, conceding 21. The final 16 games yielded only 19 goals, while we conceded 8, which means the average score was something between 1-0 and 1-1, hardly entertaining.

This year we have 47 points, scoring 45, conceding 16 on pace to end up with 81 points and 78 goals, 26 more than last season.

We are clearly not building a team based on parking the bus. Comparing our season to the phenomenal one City are having, which will probably see them smash all records for points and goals scored, is not the way the way to measure progress and it's completely futile. City are currently setting a benchmark next to which every premier league winner of the past, including the greatest of Ferguson's teams, Arsenal's invincibles, and Chelsea's record setting 97 pts and 103 goals, will all be found wanting.

05 Jan 2018 16:53:45
I think City are showing it's quite possible to do both.

05 Jan 2018 18:31:58
We should aspire to win with style.

05 Jan 2018 19:38:11
Of course we should aspire to win with style, but precedence is on winning because winning matches, championships, and qualification for the Champions League are the prerequisites required to create the winning and stylish team we all want. It comes down to money. If we win, the club makes more of it to fund the acquisition of stars who play with style. Without the transfer budget we will find it virtually impossible to compete at the level at which City are now playing, if only because they seem to have unlimited funding.