Manchester United Banter Archive November 05 2014

05 Nov 2014 20:38:52
Hi ed don't know if you are the one who checks posts before they go on but I've sent a few questions (good ones) but they aren't being uploaded?

{Ed002's Note - They have all been answered.}

05 Nov 2014 16:58:44
Hi ed, hope you're well. Interesting question. Do you think it's unlikely we will sign anyone in January and if so how unlikely? Thanks ed

{Ed002's Note - No.}

05 Nov 2014 15:21:19
Hello eds, anyone she'd any light on falcos injury, were Man U missled about his injury, he miss most of last season and the World Cup, he is 28 now, takes more time to recover, a fine player 300g a week plush millions to Monaco, a big risk .how much playing time will we get out of him.

There is a thing called a medical and in his case i would assume we did a tone of test including mri's and scans. It is silly to even think in this day and age a club like us just takes another club at their word mate, given his injury.

05 Nov 2014 11:43:00
This isn't an anti LVG post for once, it's more open ended topic/observation.

We are apparently a third of the way through the rebuild. That means we will roughly need to spend £450m on players to fully rebuild to the quality needed according to LVG and others in the know.

I think the local Red Lion equivalent would win the Prem and Champions League for the next 5 years with Mick the Plumber managing them, if they had £450m being invested in players in 18 months, integration should happen very quickly with that class, look at ADM, Costa, Sanchez, .

If this was your money would you trust LVG's philosophy with another £300m over 12 months?

LVG is likely to be with us 3 years max if we believe what we read. £450m is a big bet that the next manager is basically LVG's dopple-ganger and continues the exact same way, (I am assuming LVG's way eventually works for the sake of argument). The handover didn't work for SAF & Moyes as an immediate example that would concern me if I were planning post LVG.

Giggs can be moulded all we like, two people never think exactly the same way and I believe there will be a lot of nodding along going on with secret negative mutterings. If we go external with our hire, that is just a lottery for me a £450m roll of the dice.

If you guys believe in the LVG plan, surely it would make more sense to invest in young prospects, basically blank canvasses with great raw talent to mould them into the players and into the philosophy he wants, to ensure as much as possible the project continues after he has gone?

Shaw is the only signing for me that fits this category, but we paid a lot for him. 10+ Luke Shaw's is a lot of cash to spend on moulding raw talent.

I appreciate he will only buy players that he thinks will fit his philosophy (how does he know if they will fit his philosophy/style if it takes players 3 months to get it, how well can he know them before he signs them, I'm confused by this), but whilst he is waiting we are stuttering, CB's and a world class DM were essential, what if they aren't available again in Jan or the Summer, do we keep waiting and suffering or does he spend 3X what they are worth just to get them and damage mid-term growth? Or worse does he buy more and more stop-gaps or squad players on decent wages for £15-20m a time? It's a tricky one, but expensive either way.

I genuinely think us supporters look into things ten times more than the people in power do, I think we care much more than they do and as a result look for secret messages, or reasons that don't exist as to why they have said this or that.

Whatever happens and whether you believe the LVG experiment will pay off or not, it is going to be a very bumpy 5-10 years and I'm pleased I'm not the guy writing the cheques because there is far too man cries of "All in" from the Woody side of the table, he can't afford to get LVG wrong and as such would sacrifice anything in my view, even the next 10 years on a blind faith bet that the platforms being built now will last once LVG goes. (Big assumption this initial LVG plan works of course).

{Ed002's Note - I think a third time wise rather than financially is more appropriate. Don't lose sight of 2017 and what will happen then. More money, new owners.}

Thanks Ed - I did forget about 2017 actually, this probably highlights the re-build point further. Why re-build so drastically for 3 years when new owners could rip it all up with a whole new idea of how a club should be run. Interesting times ahead for us Utd fans, the Glaziers have obviously done their maths and thought £450m ish now is worth more than that in extra sale price come 2017.

{Ed002's Note - Typically new owners do not do such things at all. It is possible that the new owners of MU might be no more than institutions. I would not get wrapped up in the money.}

05 Nov 2014 13:03:30
Erm have i missed something? What happens in 2017?

{Ed002's Note - Lots of things will be happening in 2017 Supasub.}

05 Nov 2014 13:13:32
First off where do you get 450 million from. Just because we spent 150 this summer means we'll spend the same amount over the next two years.

We need as priority commanding centre half and dominant midfielder. We could probably do with an upgrade on Rafael and Valencia and maybe at some point van persie although a lot hinges on falcao.

Also why do we need ten like shaws. We have some great players coming through the academy that need proven class to learn from. That will be the lvg legacy.

And at the moment I can't see giggs getting the managers job. We've been blinded by sentimentality once and got bitten. can't see the suits making that mistake again.

As for 2017 ill believe it when I see it.

Totally agree, wouldn't let Giggs anywhere near the job, this whole class of 92 thing needs to be put to bed imo.

05 Nov 2014 14:01:15
What philosophy??? I really don't understand this. From unbeatable in tour matches. we are 10th in league. Out of 30 possible points we have only 13??
Changing formation after every markable defeat is philosophy??
We were playing excellent in diamond. But just some shaky defending by inexperienced defenders against leiscter and formation is changed.
Now again we are playing "boring" 4-4-1-1. and still there are no results. Is it philosophy???
The performance has improved but that is due to throwing 150m on individual talented players.
What we need is sattled back 4. Sattled formation and attack which could scare opposition defenders. Diamond was performing just great except RVP. Towards whom lvg looks bias. Playing attacking players to help defenders and hold them to run is philosophy???
I m really getting p***d with this word now because it doesn't look there.

Ed what do you me by institutions? do you mean owned by a number of wealthy individuals or a private equity firm?

{Ed002's Note - Institutional owners could include banks, insurance companies etc..}

05 Nov 2014 14:26:31
Congrats on finding another angle to find doubts in LvG 😄 Seriously though, the figures you have used have little basis IMO we won't spend that much and what we do spend will be 'viable'.

In terms of timescales - Surely 3 years is around average for managers sticking around these days? I don't see the issue there, really. All teams go through these changes regularly, you still have to back the current manager.

I agree with much of Mr E's post. I do trust LvG in general but am particularly excited at the prospect of him giving chances to our academy talents - getting us back competitive and bringing through youth will hopefully be his legacy.

In terms of the future - Things change so quickly in football I'm not going to worry about what might happen in 2017.

My personal aim for LvG was top 4 this season, competing next season and winning a trophy or 2 before he leaves. Whilst leaving us with a good basis of youth coming through. That has not changed and I still expect that from him, otherwise its failure.

He really must sort out the defence by the end of next summer but I'm sure he realises that. I'm more than happy for him to have the cash to land a top CB and top CM plus a couple of squad options, which is what we need. I have seen nothing so far to make me think he's a liability in terms of transfers so let's see how he gets on.

The whole 2017 thing seems to be growing legs. Ed, you seem very clear that this is going to happen and the logic is something i cannot disagree with especially with the passing of Malcom Glazer.
Beast, don't get caught up in multiples of spend. I am sure lots will be spent between now and the end of the summer 2015 window but I am sure it will not be 3 times what has already been spent. And if it is so be it. what a team we would have for that money!
Also, remember that we have a certain amount of players that need to be sold and this will offset purchases coming in. Some of which are on loan even if it feels t hey are no longer around.

{Ed002's Note - Actually it predates the MG death but nothing seems to have changed. I suspect with the new TV deal we will see some high profile English club sales in 2017 - not just Manchester United.}

05 Nov 2014 14:46:05
Ed002 any chance of shedding a little light on 2017 please ?

{Ed002's Note - New owners, more income from TV.}

Ed is it your opinion that the Glazers way of thinking now is spend big money on the team now to maximize its sale value in 2017?

{Ed002's Note - No, it really doesn't work like that. No owners simply want to "spend big".}

MrE - I got £450m from the case we have spent £150m so far and are a third through the rebuild, granted it doesn't work that simply. But it was just a point that sympathisers go on about being a third through, so we have to multiply by 3 if we are being fair, which is crazy!

Rodio - My views exactly, but I have opened that can of worms far too many times of late and I didn't want to attract the usual posts and tried to mix it up a bit.

HoneyBadger - Thanks and yes I was trying to be something other than a pure LVG critic, obviously I couldn't fool everyone. However 3 years management time is all well and good, but not all of them have the type of investment and rebuild job that we have at Utd. This build is for the future direction of the entire club from top to bottom, seems a bit redundant if you ask me considering nobody thinks like LVG and the club will arguably be in new hands as well.

I just thought it would be interesting to look at why we are undertaking this rebuild when the foundations we are building on are questionable and the quality we have (for the most part), are going to be close to finishing their careers by the time it is complete - will it end with them and if so was it worth it.

£200m this summer could buy Hummels, Varane, Vidal, Reus and Falcao. Problem solved.

05 Nov 2014 17:08:52
Would we face another leveraged buy out is the big question.

Inevitably it will be leveraged there is hardly a deal that happens on that scale without leverage.

I think we would all jump for joy if the Glazers sold out to a rich Sheik or a consortium of United fans who ploughed all the money we generate back into the club.
This however, is probably very unlikely and the club will be purchased by new money men intent in making another fast buck i.e. will be taken straight back to square one.

All in all the best option is better the devil you know and that the Glazers stay. After they have paid off the debt they can take a massive cut themselves and still put plenty back into the club.

So Ed is the big spending period simply just to improve the team or does it have any bearing to 2017?

{Ed002's Note - Forget about amouts of money and terms like "big".}