Manchester United Banter Archive April 06 2019

06 Apr 2019 19:24:35
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Southampton v Liverpool - A Liverpool Perspective

06 Apr 2019 15:38:06
I think as the pressure has increased on Ole, so has the movement away from giving youth a chance. I suspect there is huge pressure to achieve top four and Ole is looking to his experienced players to achieve it. This pressure can be from within, no matter whether it is a senior target I expect that within Ole he will be driven to achieve it. Pressure can make you take safe options yet one thing is certain, the pressure to succeed will only increase and how Ole handles it will define his management. I believe what you are seeing now is the change, the transition in Ole from being a temp, a carefree temp, to having a chance at the permanent role, to being appointed. The pressure, the targets for success change and it takes a brave strong manager to put the fears of it all being taken away, behind him and then to hold a line and introduce youth. SAF did it in 95 with years of success behind him but was widely criticised for doing it. I am sure he felt immense pressure at the time. Now, Ole has to achieve success quickly, or people will say it was a poor appointment, he does not have a 6 year contract so when he makes decisions can he trust youth that may not truly bloom for 3 to 5 years after his contract has finished?

Personally I think Ole is out of his depth as a manager here at this level and it is a massive risk for the football club. He still may grow on the job and despite his total lack of experience I think he will do what he thinks is right, he will uphold the values of our history but to put a multi billion pound operation in the hands of someone so inexperienced is high risk. Love what Ole stands for but fear where we are going.

One thing to consider here is that SAF seemed to want to attack and Phelan seemed more pragmatic, a balance, but maybe Ole is listening too much to Phelan and has become too defensive now. Perhaps Muelensteen as number two next season would make more sense?

06 Apr 2019 16:01:43
That’s not a bad shout Red Man, Phelan is allegedly wanting assurances but with the solid base of United men as backroom staff, him moving on wouldn’t be the end of the world. I also worry about Ole’s lack of experience but he is one of us, he gets it, and as said below he is restoring our values. Right now, that feels like it was the most importan priority.

06 Apr 2019 18:19:09
We'd lost our identity. Out of all on here red man you'd appreciate that. We lost our way and identity in the 70s and it took Ferguson to restore it. Since he went we've lost our identity again. I honestly thought Jose would end the record of academy players in the match day squad. Ole has come in and reminded people of what United are about which was sorely needed. We've wasted money on big names and galacticos and that's never been United. If Ole has any effect on steering Delorous Edd away from that policy then good. Others will say that signing cheap unknowns will suit our CEO perfectly but its been a mainstay of United transfer policy for years. Maybe that's what we need. More Dalot's and less Pogba's.

06 Apr 2019 18:24:26
Red Man, there is a reason we are playing defensive.
Our defence is just not reliable.
Young, Jones, Smalling, out of form Bailly. With these players, it is difficult to go all out for attack.
Then we have a huge injury list.

We have seen glimpses of quality in certain matches.
Hope this summer window addresses most of our issues.

06 Apr 2019 19:01:14
Spot on TRD.

With our defence being so bad throughout the season it is hard to fully analyse exactly how Ole wants Utd to play.

It’s clear that he wants us on the front foot and attacking as he has said so but you can’t go gunhoe with our defence.

That’s why a CB and RB are the most important signings in the summer. We need a solid base.

06 Apr 2019 19:38:29
It's clear we've become a pretty impatient and mutinous bunch. We now judge players and managers on a game by game basis with little regard to objectivity or fairness.

Ole has presided over a record winning run, clawed back an almost insurmountable deficit to put us on the brink of Champions League qualification and presided over one of our most memorable European performances in years knocking out one of the favourites when nobody gave us a chance. He's not done too bad.

Let's analyse the football for answers rather than speculating that he's out of his depth or somehow can't handle the pressure now he's been appointed the permeant manager. How can we possibly judge him when he's only been in charge for two games? How do we know he's not going to invest or trust in youth? Forgive me if I'm wrong but didn't Mctominay start and score in our last game. Pereira has still been given significant minutes and I don't think the likes of Chong, Gomes or Greenwood started any of the games during our fantastic recent run. Has anything really changed in that regard? Surely these are just sticks to beat him with and have no foundation in truth.

Getting back to the football Arsenal have been imperious at home this season. They've won 10 in a row and easily dispatched both Spurs and Chelsea recently. A De Gea howler and soft penalty saw us fall to our first domestic defeat in a game we dominated and created good chances.

Wolves have beaten Spurs and Chelsea, they've taken points off City and Arsenal and knocked L'pool out of the FA Cup. We hammered them for 25 minutes and on another night would have been 3-0 up. Wolves are resolute and well organised. They defend in numbers and are a threat on the counter. We all know the deficiencies in our team. We have players that are capable of making mistakes and we can go from the sublime to the ridiculous in the blink of an eye. Wolves stayed in the game and we beat ourselves. I accept we were poor in the FA Cup but every team has their off nights.

It's far too early to judge Ole, he hasn't had a pre season to work on his tactics nor a transfer window to improve our squad. We don't know if he'll promote youth consistently or if he can handle pressure because he's only been in charge for 4 months.

We must take into consideration we've had injuries to key players which have interrupted our flow and disturbed our rhythm. We have a massive game to look forward to on Wednesday and despite a set back the other night a real chance of finishing in the top 4. This was unimaginable before he was appointed.

If we judge Ole's first 4 months in its entirety he's done a fantastic job and we've witnessed some unbelievable moments. Yes we've suffered some disappointing defeats and witnessed some poor performances but I think most will accept that we are some way off being a title winning team and have some glaring weaknesses in the squad which need to be addressed. Let's see where we are at the end of next season before we make assumptions about the mentality or resilience of our new manager.

{Ed004's Note - Fantastic post and fully agreed. He tried to play a pressing game initially at the start, players dropped like flies and couldnt maintain it, so he has had to adapt. He talks about wanting to play attacking, fast paced football and every player we have been linked to suits this style of play}

06 Apr 2019 21:44:34
Dlib
Good post, I would add our performance against wolves was no where near as bad as people want to make out . We should of been 3 up after 20 minutes .
Injuries have also hit us hard, martial, linders Lukaku and rashford in particular where all playing well until they pick up injuries, none of them have yet got back to the same form yet.

07 Apr 2019 08:04:41
DLIB

This is Manchester United, the pretenders to being the biggest club in the world. Whilst I appreciate the points you make and your defence of Ole I just wish to point out that I am not suggesting he be sacked. What I have repeatedly said is there was no obvious decision making process behind his appointment and frankly we have put a manager with a sacking at Cardiff and some reasonable success in the Norwegian league in charge of said biggest club in the world. The role requires a leader not just a manager.

We will know more when the transfer window closes whether the owners really support him and then whether he can make it work about April next year. We have appointed him now but as you correctly say, let’s see where we are at the end of next season. A question to you though is what if that is fourth and no trophies, how long do you stand by him? Another season, two more years to the end of his contract? A legend will be extremely hard to sack given the sentimentality at the club. I hope he succeeds, we all do, but the structure and planning at the club looks haphazard so it would be a major challenge for an experienced manager let alone someone whose major time was at Molde. Let’s get him Muelensteen as part of his team, I think it would give him a better chance.

07 Apr 2019 09:11:21
Red Man - In many ways we are very similar, I agree with most of your views about Woodward and our intrepid owners. I worry myself that they are satisfied with mediocrity if that guarantees Champions League football and a steady revenue steam in Sponsorship heaven. I was outraged when last summers purse strings were in my view predictably tightened and I speculated the reason was a second place finish was more than acceptable and they had no appetite in risking more money chasing trophies.

On the other hand I can't complain that they haven't spent money and our wage bill is the biggest in the league. That doesn't really fit with my conspiracy theory. The more I read Ed002's post's the less I understand about how our great Club is managed. I've tried researching the Clubs structure to gain a better understanding of how the Club operates and who makes the decisions but it's a mystery hard to fathom.

Ed002 has informed us that OGS will have little input on transfers and I find that abhorrent. Without a DoF or Technical Director if the manager isn't making the signings than who is?

Call me old fashioned, out of touch or even naive but I believe the manager should make the signings at the Club or at least have the final say. I've always been of the opinion that a DoF only complicates matters and often leads to conflict. If we eventually go down that path then does the DoF become the most important position at the football club?!

Football doesn't have to be complicated, it's beauty lies in its simplicity. We all know what areas of the team needs strengthening. With the amount of football on Tv we can virtually scout them ourselves. If some unbeknown force is really recruiting and signing our players then we are in big trouble despite who the manager my be.

In relation to OGS I know this sounds cliche but he understands the Club, he knows it's expectations and he knows what it takes to win. His press conferences have always been articulate and positive and I truly believe he has a vision of how he wants us to play. Perhaps more importantly he's attempting to reintroduce a mentality that had been eroded over the last few years.

I think any manager would struggle coming into our Club because there doesn't seem to be any idea of how to successfully run the football side of the operation. Maybe it might just take an insider to change that.

07 Apr 2019 09:17:13
Cracking post Red Man.

07 Apr 2019 10:20:49
I think we need to dig in for the long overhaul, maybe years, until we are consistently challenging again.

We are at the START of a major rebuild as we beefing to find our identity again, find a DoF plus over one the following obstacles:

1. Sanchez wages has completely skewed all wage negotiations with existing players. He needs to go and maybe the others demanding high wages will need to go also.

We need to start rebuilding our team with young hungry players rather than bringing in seasoned players who bring baggage

2. Hence undoing hap-hazard transfers of previous managers where players like Sanchez, Schweinsteiger, Matic, etc were brought in on huge wages and expected to be the main player. We need hungry youngsters who want to play as a team.

3. We need to keep in sorting out the other footballing structures in the club from producing and blooding youths players to the women’s game to management t and because hi g structures. It’s been a real mess and it’s only now starting to be addressed.

4. As such, for the extra few years, I’d give OGS the target of top four while we completely rebuild.

I’d usher out: Sanchez, Lukaku, Matic, Young, Rojo, Darmian, Mata, Jones, Pogba, even DDG if it’s going to unbalance a new wave structure.

I’d bring in young hungry players such as Wan Bissaka, Rice, Etc, bro g back Henderson for GK and Tuesnzebe for CD.

Obviously there needs to be some experience but a future team, based on mon-superstar signings might look like:

Henderson

Wan Bussaka
Axel Tusnzebe
Smalling
Shaw

Rice
Herrera
Garner

Martial
Rashford
Lingard

Either way, we need to accept a major rebuild I’d beeded and it’ll take a few years to achieve.

Whether OGS is up to this huge job is up to debate!

07 Apr 2019 12:20:42
I believe a DOF would be more effective if they reported to the board directly and not to Woodward. You are talking major rebuild after six years and on to our fourth manager. What strikes me is how different the four managers have been in their approach and strategy, why? Only one has been an established experienced manager at the right level, why? We have appointed Ole based on what? He loves the club? However, have we put the cart before the horse? A DOF worth his salt would likely have an opinion on a manager but we appointed one anyway.

I agree on young hungry players plus someone mid twenties with a bit of experience for centre of defence. You said haphazard player purchases of previous managers yet Ed has clearly said the manager has little say. There is one constant in this throughout six years of transfer policy and that is Woodward, which is why I think a DOF should report to the board.

DLIB
I think we agree. The club have spent money but appears it mainly happens when it looks like we may not make the money spinning CL (Remember Woodward’s no major retooling comment) . Look at last summer, having been second it should have been a platform for a challenge, buy quality, support the manager but someone seems to have decided they didn’t think it was needed, we had enough already. Does anyone really think, no matter what you think of him, that Mourinho would have signed off on what actually arrived? People moan about Sanchez wages but how much goes out of the club in dividends, consulting fees?

It is a mess that was hidden for years by the genius of SAF, the CO92 and players like Rio, Rooney and Ronaldo bought before the Glazers arrived. You see clubs wanting to improve or build a stadium like Spurs, City, Arsenal, Liverpool, what have our lot done? Nothing, a club like Spurs will have borrowed the money to build their stadium, but we will have to start with £400m debt that did nothing for the club before borrowing anything, it isn’t helpful but 16 years on it is still there and some say it isn’t an issue. I don’t think an insider like Ole will change anything, if he has little say on transfers, his opinion on bigger issues won’t likely be sought. I don’t think major change will happen until the Glazers sell and Woodward goes back to the commercial side, meanwhile City and Liverpool’s plans have come to fruition. Six years of Woodward and how many of the Glazers and we are still talking about a major rebuild. The only shock to me is that there are still some who can’t see the problems.

07 Apr 2019 12:02:08
DLIB. Fantastic points.
Ed004 is right. After 3 games, our intensity dropped dramatically.
Almost the entire team was injured.
Even now we can't manage high intensity more than 30 minutes.
I'm happy that Ole's ultimate aim is to play attacking football.
But he is handicapped because of a poor defense, injuries and lack of quality players.

06 Apr 2019 07:09:05
Would being in the europa league next season really be that detrimental to us?

We have seen in past windows we have still been able to attract players to the club without the allure of champions league. Whether they have been successful is another story.

Also it would be the perfect breeding ground for the youngsters like greenwood, garner, chong and gomez to develop in.

06 Apr 2019 08:36:10
DSG I think being in the Europa automatically means you’re not challenging for the title that season. Look at how it’s worked out for other English clubs. If Europa fixtures were on the same nights as CL it would help greatly.

06 Apr 2019 11:23:27
The issue DSG is that, without CL, we were able to attract players by offering massive wages, and not many proved to be up to standard. This has created a situation where we have a squad packed with mediocrity, but soaking up huge amounts of wages.

The top players will always gravitate toward clubs competing for titles, and playing in the CL.

06 Apr 2019 12:06:42
I loved the Europa campaign we won, if that’s what we end up in then so be it. When Ole arrived we seemed to be a nosedive so it’s ironic that if we finish out of the top 4 people will be disappointed. He’s probably over achieved so far and raised expectations which is why so many are upset with a couple of losses.

05 Apr 2019 23:58:51
Borussia Dortmund has very much cleared their stance on sale of Sancho this summer from now only. I guess it's very good for us as it will save a lot of time in chasing a player who is not available or do not want to join. It had happened many times in past that we had wasted to much time chasing unattainable targets.

06 Apr 2019 02:06:08
Every player in world football has a price regardless of any statements imo.

06 Apr 2019 13:45:58
Dortmund are a selling club. Wave enough money and they tend to take it. Question is is Sancho worth the price? Or will his value go further upwards? Would it be better to pay now or later?

06 Apr 2019 14:23:26
Dortmund have a history selling their best players to their biggest rivals Munich. The are a selling club always will be.

06 Apr 2019 18:38:50
Ronaldo wasn't for sale and Fergie said he wouldn't sell that mob a virus. look how that turned out.