Manchester United Banter Archive December 06 2012

06 Dec 2012 22:40:33
Eds/Regulars,

Can any of you suggest a good weekly Manchester United Podcast?

Thanks!

06 Dec 2012 21:37:57
Given the performance of some of our team against Cluj, and the need to get something out of the derby with most of our midfield injured, I would like to see a change of tactics, personnel and formation. Similar to what we did against Arsenal a couple of seasons ago. How about;

DeGea

Jones Smalling Evans Evra

Carrick Powell

Rafael Buttner

Rooney

RVP

Bench Lindegard Tunnicliffe Petrucci Wooton Scholes Hernandez Welbeck

Rafael and Buttner can provide width and pace which will be ideal on counter attack, and they can step back to stiffen up the middle when we don't have the ball. We must also start introducing youth from the bench when circumstances allow. Management cannot complain that they lack experience when it is their responsibility to provide that learning curve through careful staged introduction to first team action. A win would be great but a draw would be good, and I feel that this formation could achieve it.

Thoughts?

GLC

I wouldn't mind Buttner LM but Rafael is best at RB, I like your sense of adventurousness but I doubt we will see any youngsters given a chance Sunday.

-JakeW

I loved our game against Arsenal when Fabio and Rafael played left and right midfield they had a free license and thrived off it but Rafa is turning into a class RB so there is no point stopping his progress...... Buttner was converted into a left back and I think it was because he hasnt got the dramatic pace of an explosive winger but he has definitely got the final ball... His crossing is one of the best in the squad (literally nobody can cross) so maybe he would be worth a gamble and would provide great cover tracking back too.

06 Dec 2012 21:03:15
Giggs wants perfection? Retire already then and let some youngsters through.

-JakeW

Is this a wind-up? It is, isn't it.......is it?
KLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!

StevieK

Stevie I don't understand what your trying to say?

-JakeW

Sorry Jake - meant for Aesop's post about our owners.

Still can't work the mobile site properly :)

StevieK

06 Dec 2012 18:43:50
Although we are top of the league, and have qualified for the Champion's League last phases there is a sense of disquiet all about. It starts with the Manager who appears to signaling his exit, and whose judgment in tactical matters seems wanting. Whether or not he is doing the best with his resources is only one part of the problem as he chose and nurtured those resources.
There is little blame to be placed at the owners' door, as acquisition funding has been reasonably plentiful over the last two years, but a combination of sentiment and lack of killer judgment has created the all too visible gaps in the player portfolio.
While the defense and attacking personnel are on the whole fit for purpose (that is with the exception of Messrs Nani (my favorite), Valencia and Welbeck), the team is inexorably run over in the middle by notionally inferior opposition. All of this has been debated on these pages for most weeks of this season.
The upcoming transfer window is the last opportunity to fix the midfield issues, something that must be done with dispatch, either through purchases or by giving younger and promising players their opportunities. If not I am fearful of a second half of the season collapse.
I hope that the somewhat illusive signals of managerial departure are going to become much clearer soon. Clearly there is some consensus building in favor of Jose M, who has the ruthless streak that has been lost at our club, and who is the master of tactics and ruthless innovation.
With the extraordinary uplift in income that will be driven by sponsorship and commercial deals, as well as increasing tv revenues, he will have the resources that he needs.
There are rumors that the Board are fighting shy of a Mourino appointment, but let us hope that good sense will prevail, and that the much needed clearing of the Augean stables will begin in earnest in the summer.

Aesop {Ed007's Note - The player portfolio..? This should be a giggle when KLOOT see it.}

Oh dear, ed I think you are right, can imagine kloot is doing to type this one up on word and copy and paste it across!

When was the last time we collapsed throughout the second half of the season? I know we lost 8 point lead at the end of last season but that was mainly down to pressure. We have a stronger squad this season than last what with Rvp, kagawa and vidic. Lets be a little positive, somebody said on here the other day that only united fans would be moaning in the position we are in.

GDS

Acquisation funding?

Player portfolio?

Could you sound anymore like a corporate American Glazer plant?

This. Post. Is. Hilarious.
Glazer plant?!

DodgyBanter

06 Dec 2012 18:19:46
Who is this Percy Weasley? Where have u been the last 2 years of football? Nani at is 100% talent , 5% intelligence. Neymar at 19 has won more individual awards than Nani would ever win inhis career. The just concluded Brazilian season he scored 45 goals in 52 games. He just won an award that only Pele ever won. What more need I say! He is light years ahead of Nani.

06 Dec 2012 17:30:46
Just reading the match report in the Independent. "their football lacked tempo and urgency, as it has throughout the campaign, and their final ball was poor". Sums up our season so far quite well I think.

AJH

06 Dec 2012 17:22:51
"Personally if Neymar was gettable I would sell Rooney to get him...Some would say too much of a risk but football is moving on so much now you pretty much can not touch players and tidy, neat, technical players are the future."

Chelsea's tippy tappy players haven't helped them this season have they? But with Drogba and Lampard beside them things may have been different. I am not saying we shouldn't buy Neymar type players, just think you need players like Rooney in with them.

Sydney!

I am not saying we only need tippy tappy players... I just think Neymar is the type of huge signing that we are crying out for and we do not really have a player of his style. I think Rooney at 27 should be sold before his value decreases and Neymar who obviously is not gettable but in a dream world would be the huge signing to replac him.

This is where I think our team is lacking TBH, would be nice to have a mix of physical players and technical players but we've got too many (midfielders particularly) who are just good all round, without specialising in either direction.

Carrick & Cleverly is possibly our best natural CM partnership but neither are great at defending or great technically. They are both OK at both. Compare that with Keane & Scholes (good old days) or Martinez & Schweinsteiger (current ex.) as good examples of a balanced midfield.

I would love us to have this balance again. It works well in the PL especially and would provide a better platform for our attacks. And just to pre-empt some replies - I'm not asking for an out and out DM, but a Strong box-to-box type who can defend

Possible choices for a balanced CM: (in order of preference)
B2B: Vidal, Bender, Wanyama
Technical: Cabaye, Moutinho

I'd say Bender & Cabaye would look great on paper. Both are possible too but would likely cost £40+m in total which could be an issue!

Gav

We could raise from selling the rubbish though, Nani, Young & Evra would raise around 35 surely?

I know we can raise the money for Neymar.. We can afford him now before sales but I was clearly stating that if he was gettable I would sacrifice Rooney for him that is all.

06 Dec 2012 16:54:55
Who reckons it might be worth if fit playing Valencia in central midfield against city ? Adds a bit of strength and pace where we're severely lacking !

John the fireman

Dont know if he is fit or not. But he cant get past a player in the wings, what the hell will he do in the center?
Now some deluded Valencia fan might say he plays through the middle for his country. So sir just tell me how good is he in that role and how well does Ecuador perform on the international stage?

baba octopus

Anderson is back to his best, he will run the show on Sunday.The guy is a pitbull. I will be back to say i told you so too!

Anderson is injured.... so can you please leave us your name so we know if you come back to tell us so....

although if fit i would agree

oxred

Anderson is injured.

Luke

Valencia has never played centrally for United, from memory. I would not make Sunday his first appearance there given the scale of the game! I can't imagine him being all that good in there tbh. I'd rather play Jones in the holding role if we really need the additional strength

Gav

Sorry baba I forgot you need to be able to beat people to play centrally midfield ala scholes ,pirlo,etc

John the fireman

Jones is a poor passer and will give the ball away too often. I think we will end up having fletcher and carrick in the centre of the park.

Shahram

06 Dec 2012 13:55:25
If it is true that Fernandinho will be moving to a manchester club then im unsure if i want him, he's 27 years old and plays in a poor league where bebe would look like a world beater..

27 Sure that means he has a good 10-12 years left at our club.

Fergie sign him up.

Devil Dust.

He's still part of a team that did well against Chelsea and Juventus. He's better than our current options.

Fresh!

Can he not play on the left? I would snap him up if it meant we could sell Nani.

Devil Dust good one :)

Shahram

06 Dec 2012 12:45:42
some points

considering the injuries to cleverly and anderson , giving scholes time on the pitch could be crucial

i dont see us winning at etihad , also cant see any team getting a win there

rotation is key , chelsea and arsenal are enduring problems of not doing it.

also hope saf makes a u turn and stay on for a few more years , cant see another manager capable of leading us



nikz

So your saying that at the start of Dec Arsenal and Chelsea players are tired and thats why they are doing badly ??

The mind baffles.

Devil Dust.

Bottom line for Sunday - we cant keep a clean sheet to save our lives, while keeping a clean sheet is pretty much all City are capable of at the moment.

I see SAF bottling it, playing a very defensive line-up and we lose 1-0 with a goal in the last 10mins. Not a disaster, but I don't see us picking up points there.

RED_SKY

A u-turn? Do you know something we don't? Fergie has never suggested he is leaving this summer so how would him not leaving be a u-turn?

GDS

Certainly devil dust benitez and wenger have said it not me. they played the same x1 in almost every game , something that we havent done.

nikz

06 Dec 2012 12:30:38
Shakhtar Donetsk star Fernandinho says he is going to sign for either Manchester United or Manchester City next month - but he is keeping schtum as to who that will be.

The exciting attacker has been central to Shakhtar's impressive Champions League campaign so far this season

He scored in the 2-1 win over Chelsea last month and has been tracked by numerous clubs with a view to a move.

Intriguingly, the 27-year-old Brazil international says he is leaving Shakhtar and moving to Manchester in January, but he has not said which club he will be joining.


"I am closing a deal with an English club. I will play in Manchester in January," he told Calciomercato

Can't see it being us, we don't sign cup tied players.

Fresh!

If true my guess would be city.

phil

We dont need another person like Hazard making self publicising announcements regarding playing in Manchester but not confirming if its City or United....if both clubs are after him them shut up til you have signed for one then go on your PR offensive!

Ring any bells?

I take it from that statement he will be joining Chelsea and their amazing 'project' haha

Jono

It could be any EPL side who are playing either ourselves or City in January. Possibly even Wigan if he means Greater.

Does Ed002 know anything about this? Thanks.

Sydney! {Ed002's Note - It will all be nonsense Syd. Sorry, I love seeing you duped like this and can only say it is a pity taht it is not me who did it.}

Supposedly it a misquote in an italian newspaper , he said something along the lines of " i would like manchester" when asked which club he would like in the next round.
amazing how a story can spread
jred

06 Dec 2012 12:16:15
id like to see us draw AC in the last 16. they are struggling big time and think we could hammer them over 2 legs again. whats peoples thaughts?

ms85

We barely beat Reading, lets not go overboard.

Gar

Madrid would be good. Either we win or gt out and concentrate on PL.

06 Dec 2012 11:05:16
Wow according to StevieK unless you have a coaching licence or have won numerous titles you are exempt from having an opinion about the manager of the club you have supported all your life.

He also thinks that we have not a single player aged between 18-24 that could not constantly give the ball away then because they are too old be unable to run to get it back...he thinks we were right to get beaten with a 38 and 39 yr old in the centre of the park because the kids needs a calm head there holding them by the hand while they get ran past time and time again....

Devil Dust.

06 Dec 2012 11:23:28
agree, time to get real stevie k

06 Dec 2012 10:11:24
Hopefully Fergie watching up in the stands may have opened his eyes too the problems all have us have been screaming about for over a year or two.

06 Dec 2012 09:53:37
Im sorry but i totally disagree with fergie while it is good our so called youngsters get a game and experiance in my opinion we should not just be beating teams like cluj but ripping them to pieces all of that team last night barring powell have plenty of top flight experience in various leagues all of which are better then the Romanian 1st div so why should we be happy now that we have ando,clevs and kagawa out injured i dear the worst for sunday as fergie will play 4 4 2 with a midfield comprising of 2 of fletcher,giggs,scholes or carrick plus out of form wingers and forwards played out of position and a defence that cant seem to defend No matter what combination you play we are in a false league position in my opinion and unless we start playing like we all know we are capable of our luck is gonna run out.

Yes we should of ripped Cluj apart...But they had everything to play for and we had nothing. We had no motivation. It is sad that these are the only excuses because footballers shouldnt really need motivation to kick a ball for the money they get paid... says it all.

06 Dec 2012 09:26:52
SAF's stubborness is getting beyond a joke I feel. No Petrucci AGAIN - this is my biggest qualm. You can see why he played the players he did last night in midfield, Scholes & Giggs are the only two that we have left if we are saving Fletcher & Carrick for the weekend and Anderson & now Cleverly are injured. Other than Powell what do we have? We really need a complete, box2box midfielder - the only one that I can see being vaguely realistic is Strootman. Nevertheless, we should have seen Petrucci in action a few times this season, and also Tunnicliffe, the fact they aren't playing much implies that they are seen as not good enough - it would not surprise me to see Petrucci leave in the summer given that he has had no first team exposure.

Also, would anyone actually miss Welbeck if he left? I said yesterday that he could become a good winger, but I don't think he is a top winger or a top striker. He is a squad player ultimatly. I would very much like to see Lewandowski here - so could he replace Welbeck?

Fresh!

Lewandowski imo would want to be one of the first names on the team sheet like RVP and Rooney so how do you fit them all in? Welbeck imo should of been sold in the summer after a decent season.... He will not be a top striker or a good winger I would get the £15 million and sign Vadillo or Strootman.

Petrucci is plagued by injuries and I do not really have a clue when he is fit why he doesnt get game time... He will end up at Inter or another italian club.

Petrucci is currently injured, has been for a while and will be for another month. Maybe get your facts right before criticising the manager!

Petrucci is NOT injured seeing as he played Monday night so maybe you should get your facts right before posting about something you obviously know nothing about !

Epic FAIL....

Devil Dust.

I think you'll find Petrucci played against Southampton u21's on Monday so please get YOUR facts right!

Craigy!

The game against Southampton was his first coming back from a lay off again....

06 Dec 2012 07:31:47
Right the game!

Obviously it was a run out for some players, and we lacked any real fight!

Giggs and scholes! legends they maybe but this is there last year! People should still respecct them though, tarnishing them is not what you do to ot legends!

Powell, looked uncomfortable at times and positionally needs work.

Cleverly- needs run of games to find his feet again!

buttner and jones! 2 best performers, jones looks like he could be a quality player if he can stay fit! Buttner is gradually improving and should challenge for lb position!

Wooton - good expeirence for him!

The rest were no good, but there was no pressue to win

Big V

You say Powell positionally needs work even though he is not at all a left winger and never will be.... He is a centre midfielder or number 10. He looked comfortable on the ball and made some darting runs more than what I can say for Cleverley who has been shocking all season.

06 Dec 2012 02:31:21
Are you for real? Seriously? The defending in Brazil and Portugal is non existant is it Percy? So they play with 5 midfielders and 5 strikers in those leagues do they? Neymar is the next big thing from Brazil. He is already better than Nani. You have to be the most biased United fan in the world to say Nani is better than him. Rodriguez is another top player, who performs better than Nani on a consistent basis. As for Nani single handedly winning us the league? Hernandez scored 20 goals that season, Berbatov scored 20 goals that season. Rooney regained his form in March. Valencia returned and pushed Nani out of the team. To say he single handedly won us the league is a little off.

Hazard isn't on Nani's level? LOL. You criticise Robben for being inconsistent, yet when Nani is inconsistent, you don't say a word against him. Nani has had a run of games at the start of the season, and played awful all year. Not one decent performance. Yet you wouldn't even have Neymar, Rodriguez or even Reus ahead of him? Wow. I give up. There is no getting through to you.

G.A.G.U.S

Okay. Let's get a few things straight as you seem incapable of reading.

1. Reus is the only winger I would take over Nani. I stated that clearly in my post.

2. Are you saying that the defending in Brazil and Portugal is as good as that of the Premier League? Or even Spain for that matter?

3. Valencia did not push Nani out of the team. Injury did.

4. That season, Nani got 10 goals and 18 assists as well as being the first name on the team sheet. (Also the year we last won anything)

5. Neymar and Hazard easily have the potential to be better than Nani, just aren't there yet. Rodriguez on the other hand in my opinion will never reach his level.

6. I think you'll find that Nani has not had a run of games this season (do you even watch United), and that he has put in at least 2 decent performances (Gala and Spurs).

Does that make everything clear for you G.A.G.U.S? If it doesn't I'm not sure what to suggest as I can't make my points any clearer. Please refrain from posting lies in response to this, they're quite tiresome.

Percy

Point 5 is classic... You're taking the piss yeah?

Melbourne CFC

Percy your mental. Neymar and Hazard are twice the player of Nani and Rodriguez is already better... I would put Nani just ahead of Lennon's level.

Rodriguez is already above nani's level thats why we want him 2 replace nani
Sid

'Neymar and Hazard easily have the potential to be better than Nani, just aren't there yet.'

Haha there is just no arguing with that sort of statement. If it was meant to be as hilarious as it reads then i tip my hat to you as you have had us all believing you actually rate Nani highly.

If however you are being serious, well, you must be blind.

Jono

At this rate I would even take Walcott for Nani.... And I think he is useless..... Says it all really.

Personally if Neymar was gettable I would sell Rooney to get him...Some would say too much of a risk but football is moving on so much now you pretty much can not touch players and tidy, neat, technical players are the future.

"Personally if Neymar was gettable I would sell Rooney to get him...Some would say too much of a risk but football is moving on so much now you pretty much can not touch players and tidy, neat, technical players are the future."

Chelsea's tippy tappy players haven't helped them this season have they? But with Drogba and Lampard beside them things may have been different. I am not saying we shouldn't buy Neymar type players, just think you need players like Rooney in with them.

Sydney!

06 Dec 2012 01:57:08
Play youth, play youth!, they scream and shout. It's a meaningless game anyway, they yell. Have some balls Fergie, and let youth have its chance, they bellow.

We lose 1-0 to a low grade Romanian team at home....

Our proud home record gone! they moan. To a team like Cluj! they scream. Oh the shame! How could this happen, they wail, how could this possibly happen!

Because apart from on FIFA or Football Manager, where most of these people seem to convince themselves that they know better than SAF, you can't throw a team of youngsters together, ranging in age from 18-24, against any ECL opposition, and be anywhere near confident they'll get a result. It doesn't work like that in real life.

But no, it's not the youngsters fault, these people say, it's the two oldies in the team, Giggs and Scholes. Ah, of course. Very convenient. After all, I'm sure another two kids in for these two would have made all the difference in the end. What potential greats did these people have in mind to play in the middle tonight instead of Giggs and Scholes?......

If you came away from your computers for long enough, you'd maybe realise that any team full of youth needs older, calmer heads around to take them through the game by the hand, especially in a European tie. Fergie knows that, but then he's probably never played Football Manager.

He's looked around the squad for some experience to stick in with the kids, and realised Giggs and Scholes are perfect for it - experienced greats, and 2 he can afford to risk before Sunday, as he knows deep down, they won't have a major role to play then, if any.

It's called management people, and if any of you hypocritical whingers have any actual real-life managerial experience that compares to Fergie's, then by all means, pass judgement all you like. If you haven't, then at least be consistent in your criticisms. You can't have it both ways.

I'm in week 10 of my stopping smoking, and in a foul mood anyway, but by God, some of you immature, spoilt little whiners, aren't helping much!

StevieK

Who cares? The match meant nothing anyway, it's good for Giggs and Scholes to get a game now rather than Sunday.

Percy

Steve
Good post also if we had played the kids and got beat and gala were knocked out I think there would of been questions asked
Jred

Percy and StevieK

Can I ask how much your tickets cost last night? If you paid good top level money to watch that I doubt you would be so dismissive.
I don't want to watch Scholes and Giggs, I would rather see one or two young players given a chance, we go on about them often enough. I wouldn't mind losing on that basis but losing like last night having paid how much I paid is not right and for Ferguson to tell us it was a young team , incredible, compared to him maybe

So again how much did you pay to give you the right to be so dismissive?

Red Man

Totally agree SteveK, tonight was ideal to use Giggs & Scholes. What got me riled was that the players on the pitched lacked drive and motivation. It was lacklustre an not up to standard... Roy Keane, even if rested, would have made sure the team put in a bit more effort than that! These guys should be pushing for a first team place, only one doing that was Jones, maybe Wooton & Buttner if I'm being kind. Not good enough.

DodgyBanter

Steve

Thats all well and good when your experienced players are the heart beat of the team in games like these and stand head and shoulders above the younger lads. Ours just brought them down by slowing play and encouraging safe passes and little forward penetration whilst helping cost the goal conceded.

And a team age range from 18-24 with all but 2 21 plus is not young anymore mate. A team with 7-8 players under 20 or even half under 20 can be considered youthful. 21+ and as a player you should be taking strides in developement to the level of the top players IF and its a big IF you are actually good enough!

Jono

What a load of rubbish, last night would have been ideal to try a young winger or midfileder. nstead we played Giggs, Scholes and Fletcher and we lost and learnt nothing.
A good point made by Red Man, people phoned on MUTV and they spent in excess of £400 to come to the match from Ireland and they got a half hearted display.
Also would like to mention that one million euros you get for each win. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but our club isnt exactly flush with money, so the win was important.
Finally, winning is a habbit, we have lost the last two games we played in CL, so dont expect miracles in the next round, you cant turn it on and off.
NoMidfield

Red Man, I don't see what your point is, but I've been at dead rubber matches and early round League Cup matches before with my wee lad, and been quite aware that the team was not going to be our normal first X! - normally why we were able to get tickets in the first place. Like I said elsewhere - kids, guys returning from injury, and bit-part squad players are the norm. Don't pretend you expected our first team to be playing, unless you're naive in the extreme.

"I don't want to see Giggs and Scholes", you claim. Giggs was one older starter out of 11 - does that really offend you that much? Does that one guy really affect your whole viewing pleasure? You should be grateful you got to see Giggs and Scholes before they retire - many haven't had the luxury - rather than be so dismissive of their contributions to this club.

"I would rather see one or two young players given a chance" - Smalling, Jones, Wooton, Powell, Chicharito, Wellbeck, De Gea - you mean young players like this? Or do you mean EVEN younger players? And then we could have lost by a few more goals, because you just can't throw 11 teenagers in and expect to win, and you would have had even more reason to complain about what you had to watch.

I've put a lot into the coffers of this club over the years, if that is now the true barometer of being a supporter - living across the water necessitates boats or planes, so don't lecture me on paying to watch my team. I've paid hundreds of pounds to watch some crud game where the result was immaterial. I went hoping for better, but knowing mish mash teams rarely excel - tough titty on my part, and tough titty on yours I'm afraid.

StevieK

Totally agree Jred - I know it's not Utd's job to have to look after other teams, but there is a certain moral duty to not take the piss by putting out your under 18s.

Dodgy - that's what annoyed me about last night mate - not the team put out, but the apparent lack of desire. These weren't raw U18 kids looking to get themselves noticed - they were mostly young squad players who should have been running through walls to show their manager why they deserve to start games regularly.

Maybe we just have to accept that our promising youngsters are not actually that promising, or maybe they're just happy enough being in the squad set-up, I don't know mate.

Suffice to say, I don't think they'll be causing Fergie too many selection problems in the near future.

StevieK

06 Dec 2012 00:28:19
A draw would keep out 3 point advantage at the top with the two hardest games out of the way before Christmas (Chelsea and City away) and this is all with Vida and Kagawa to come back. Not all is doom and gloom!

Very concerned about Welbeck's goalscoring form though, probably would help if he played striker though.

Hoppy

06 Dec 2012 00:19:49
Well tonight that was utter shyte Giggs ...I despair how he commands a start, Clevs I am seriously thinking he is going to do nothing the midfield version of Macheda, Clevs is 23 surely he should be close to his pomp now.

Anyhow there is no way we'll be anything but rubbish in midfield until theres a change of personell ,Sad to see Ando injured again so much promise

Pardoe