Manchester United Banter Archive February 06 2014

 

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06 Feb 2014 22:47:40
rip, busby babes, will always be remembered.

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Thank you lfc, might I also point out for those unaware of it, that Liverpool Football Club were the first to offer support in terms of loan players, in the aftermath of the disaster.

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Gooner here, just adding my thoughts as well. Not a live at the time, but so tragic and I would hope any fan of football would agree- RIP to them all.

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RIP from all at EFC

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06 Feb 2014 21:55:08
Anyone see that lad playing in Midfield for St.Mirren up in Scotland. Looks a great player, just what we need. Goes by the name of Djemba-Djemba. So good they named him twice :)

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{Ed007's Note - I couldn't believe it when I heard over the weekend St Mirren were trying to get him in, I'm going to ask him for his autograph if I get a chance :)

I recall reading an article with the headline : " St Mirren sign Manchester United and Aston Villa legend ", clicked on the link, laughed out loud, peed myself a little.

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06 Feb 2014 21:53:39
Hmm. seems we were all fooled. David Moyes is an actor:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1316713/

kung-fu-seven

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06 Feb 2014 19:37:14
I thought I red on the site the nike deal was supposed to be all but done are nike now stalling to see what happens this season; if so what are the implications to the club if they do not sign the deal and if they do sign dose it go to help the club transfer wise or into uncle malcoms pocket thoughts please only do not no mutch of how it works

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If it falls through our players have no boots and have to buy their own. Also, our kit deal then defaults to Matalan

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Matalan! lol

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Sponsored by 99p store.

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According to the Daily Wail on 28/1/14 United are opening discussions & expect to secure a world-record shirt deal worth in excess of £65 million-a-year within six months after handing Adidas, Warrior and Puma the opportunity to replace Nike as their kit supplier.

"A United spokesperson said: “We currently are in discussions with multiple parties regarding our Global Retail, Apparel & Product Licensing business starting in the 2015/16 Season." Expected to be concluded in next 6 months.

Stop panicking United are still a huge global brand whatever happens this season. Woodward might be useless at transfers but he's good at income generation.

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LOL you guys are a trip.

It is a Nike deal and will be the largest deal of its kind in the industry. There is some house cleaning at Nike and you are seeing some of it including them dropping certain other arrangements to Focus on fewer Partnerships but larger and long term arrangements that they feel are synergetic and strategically aligned with the direction of the Nike brand.

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Thank you gcu some body with a brain but will it go towards transfers or go in the owners pocket

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The latest is that primark are interested :)

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Johndenton

Well thank god for that, it should save me quite a bit on next years purchase of the new kit for my boys :)

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Gcu I asked

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Well gcu you seem to now it all but you still have not said if it is going to be spent on players or in the owners pockets

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How would he know? And you wonder why people reply to your posts with sarcasm.

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A red fan

I also believe the club will spend money on the players they want. The players will come whether refinish top 4 or not as long as we are willing to make ends available. Come summer we will see quite bit of change that might make a believer out of even the most pessimist fans.

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06 Feb 2014 18:13:25
Baring in mind this is a banter site, just wondering what you guys would consider a disaster this season:-
1. Not making 4th and CL?
2. Not making Europa League?
3. Possibly ending the season 9th?
If any of the above happened do you still think the superstars will go to you in the summer? and if they do what are they coming for - Club or Money?

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If the money is right players will come, psg, Monaco, city, Chelsea even the Russian clubs have proved that .

No matter how many times a player at your club kisses the badge if he wasn't getting paid what he wants he wouldn't be there .
I would say that applies to 99% of players

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Today of all days should make us all realise that a disappointing few months on the pitch is just that. Disappointing. No more, no less.
What happened on this day 56 years ago in Munich was a disaster.
Like many have already said today, it puts things into perspective.

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A disaster IMO is missing out on the Champions League and having to compete in the Europa. The number of games in the Europa would hamper our domestic progress, unless we used it to blood the youngsters, but we learned from last time that we would take it seriously.

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Agreed Jred, I don't think finishing outside the top four would stop players coming, but it may take a bit extra in their pay cheque, if that is the case. Personally, I think finishing outside Europa League places would be a disaster, not because I like the EL, just because it would mean we were so far down the table. I would rather finish as high up as possible and forfeit our place in europe, if it wasnt the CL, as there are just far too many games and it could ruin the rest of our season. They should have left the Uefa Cup as it was, but then again, that wasnt making them as much money.

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Well said Betty, I was hoping for a quiet day on here today

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Jred

The only fly in the ointment is if Chelsea and City for example offer the same or more money AND have CL when we don't. You then have to rely on the player wanting us more than the others and that could be difficult. How attractive is the set up without CL?

I would feel we would have to aim a little lower and hope for top four the next season to become more attractive again.
Top four us very very important no matter what slant people try to put on it.

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Red man
What if we make CL and Chelsea or city offer a player more money as they have done in the past?
Imo even if we come 5th as long as we offer the right amount we will still get the top players .
If Vidal becomes available for example he will go to the highest bidder imo.

Why do you think falcao went to Monaco or zlatan to psg.
Do you think United was matas only option or where we the club prepared to pay the most?

We could win the league but won't get the players we want if we don't pay top dollar, we have all ready seen this .

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In light of all the comments about paying top dollar gets the best players, when does the FFP salary cap come into effect? Do the eds have a view on how missing out on CL and or EL will impact on our salary budget next season and the season after? What factors dictates the level of salaries we can pay?

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{Ed002's Note - There is no point getting in to the finances for reasons that are well known.}

Huggy76

Next week we are reporting quarterly results and will guide on the issue of missing CL as I am sure it will be asked by analyst who cover the club.

Our salaries are not an issue at all with or without cl, when it comes to FFP and if some of the reports are true then some of the wages/bonuses are tied to cl qualification and winning the league for example so a lot of people will share in the upside when things go well and also take some responsibility and the consequences when things go the other way.

What most people are not recognizing is the fact that some of the changes that will come with new players will actually bring our wage bill down given what some of the older guys are being paid and their replacements will not be on those type of wages.

Then you will have the capital outlay that is required for getting new players and that is quite complicated as Ed002 has pointed out as there are many items that needs to be factored in.

Some of it can be amortized over the duration of the contract on straight-line basis and some I would assume is a one time expense that is a charge on the pl and balance sheet for that given quarter/year and then you have the tax deductible items, so in short not really worth the guessing game.

I generally look at a few key items which is top line, Operating cost and some key items ratios, Ebidta.

The key item for me when it comes to buying new players is Ebidta as you need some form of upfront payment in any purchase no matter how you structure the payment terms. I have no idea if we use any form bank finance in player purchase like some clubs do and that would then again significantly change things.

For example there were stuff about the Bale transfer this summer that Real was trying to secure financing from local banks, I am not sure how true the story is.

In short I would not worry one bit about our finances as they are under control and we are in a very different place compared to 2009/2010, which was the real difficult period for the club.

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Jred

They would likely go to Chelsea or City who look nailed on to qualify and especially if they offer more money. If we offer "the right amount" we still don't know the impact of no CL, we may have to pay more than the right amount, a major premium and that may not be enough. Yes Falcao went to Monaco but by all accounts it was for a major tax free premium, PSG are in the CL aren't they?
Mata may not have had many options in the January before the World Cup of teams that would pay £37M, also we still had at the time and have a chance although tougher now, of the CL when he joined.
There is a real scramble for the CL because it is where the money is and where players want to play. We would be naive to think it didn't matter and the premium to get them otherwise could be beyond what our owners are willing to pay. Also the players would have to believe it would only be one year out if the CL so our finish to the season could be important. Overall it is up in the air IMO if we don't qualify for the CL.

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I think a lot of things matter when players switch clubs. What club they are at compared to coming to United, clubs agreeing, player wanting to change, wages, playing time, position they play, competition for places at the new club, other players, the manager, married or single etc etc.

If you go by what players say, how many times have we heard players say you can not turn down a club like united, unless you are a catalan and obsessed with playing for Barcelona which is more than a football thing.

BTW I don't for one minute believe 95% of the supposed bids we have made on players as reported by the media including the last minute stuff that was being reported in the summer.

According to ed002 who is an expert at these matters he a rarely says we have bid on someone and got turned down. It is more a case of us monitoring players, enquiring but not very often where we actually progress things with a bid.


Today there is story on Herrera with headline that he is staying put but when you read what he has actually said, it's really the only thing he can say when you consider who he plays for, the ethnic thing with that club and how they have vilified other players in the past who have publicly stated they wanted a move.

In real life, Would he move to us? off course he would if we could get the clubs to agree.

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Thx for the response GCU. I was coming at it from a slightly diffrent angle. As I understood matters the FFP salary cap meant that you could only grow your salary budget by a predetermined % each season. As such regardless of how much income we generate from commercial deals there is a ceiling budget for wages. If this is indeed the case then surely there is the potential to limit the number of players we can sign in the summer and out ability to pay inflated wages to attract top players if we cannot offer CL football will be adversely affected. I accept with Evra, Vidic, Rio and potentially Giggs, Nani and Anderson off the wage bill that will free up some cash for new players wages, albeit top players will want similar if not higher wages.

This also leads me to believe old Wooody has been quite cute in getting Nani to sign a new deal at higher wages when he was probably always going to sell him. It not only increases Nani's potential resale value as he is tied to a longer contract, but it also increases this years salary budget which in turn means we can pay more next season when we are trying to attract new players and not fall foul of FFP.

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Huggy, there is a ruling that says a club can only increase the salary by £4m a season. Not sure if that's what you are talking about?

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06 Feb 2014 17:46:07
RIP Busby Babes, here's to a brighter future for football.

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06 Feb 2014 17:24:44
Today should be a day we step back and look at ourselves, we are not in as bad position as everyone is making out to be. Especially compared to what our club has been through.

RIP Busby Babes, you will never ever be forgotten and although I never got to witness any of you play, i'm sure you were very entertaining to watch and you always tried your best.

Lest we forget.

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06 Feb 2014 14:47:00
I am starting to believe the Vidic to Inter rumours and I don't see us offerig him a new deal which would be a great shame. I get the impression that he is unsure of his future and Moyes hasn't made it to clear. If this is the case then I personally think it's poor management. I also think that Rio wants or expects Moyes to go - he quite clearly doesn't have the players support, especially the older guys. What is certain though I think is that we are going to lose our 3 most experienced defenders in Vidic, Ferdinand and Evra. How do you think that we will respond to this, how many need to come and what sort of player? An experienced defender for me is what is needed.

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Rio and Vidic are not the future of the club so it really doesn't matter in the long term what they want from a manager. It may be understandable after their time with SAF, but if they are being disloyal, disruptive, or not giving 100% then that reflects badly on them, not Moyes.

Vidic an Ferdinand have been great players for us and we are all appreciative of them, but Moyes will need to create a team that wants to play for him according to his managerial direction. As difficult as the transition has been and may yet prove to be, I think he will be given time and money to do that. But if he a) can't recruit anyone decent and/or b) fails to create any improvement in performances by next Xmas, the Glazers may have to cut their losses.

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I want Rio to go, he's long past his best. He can go and sell his caps then full time.

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Hiya Fresh,
as an outsider looking in, and I'm just an opposing fan, it appears to be unrest among the dressing room, only if true of course. It could however lead to a situation like AVB at Chelsea, where some of the established senior pro's might unsettle the manager. DM will have to be very strong to overcome it and the main problem he has is results or lack of them at the moment. If he were to turn around things in the last 30% of the season he's in a very strong position. That I think will go someway to attracting the caliber of player that might be attracted to the club or the amount of financial outlay the owners are prepared to give.
I'm not necessarily talking about qualifying for CL etc but more so the way the team performs. If they give it a right good go and fall a wee bit short at least prospective players will see a chance to be successful in the shorter term. I'm sure the same could be said of the owner's too.
Personally I feel it's a very big few months for DM. It's all well and good saying sell this fella, buy that fella etc, but that's the dilemma every club has right now. Will the owners be prepared to add 150m to the 64m already spent if there's no improvement in performance between now and summer. That's a more relevant question I think.

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Simonpw

I think United as club will boot any player out if they prove to be disruptive. I think the british press is what they are and just can't stop printing rubbish with probably 90% of the stuff complete bs and 10% of the stuff correct to small degree. It is a bad six months and being who we are everything gets magnified and in many cases completely taken out of context.

Chelsea and us are like chalk and cheese mate. I suspect a few players are not being offered extensions and if they are at reduced wages, which is what Fergie should have done with some of these guys a long time ago.

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06 Feb 2014 14:44:04
R.I.P Busby Babes, who knows what they could of achieved.

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They may not have had the chance to achieve it on the pitch, but their tragic deaths have forged the spirit of our club and the communities who support it. Everything that we have achieved over the last 56 years is dedicated to their memory.

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R.I.P indeed. I, being an old man,
remember the tragedy clearly

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Puzzled if my memory serves me correct you are a Liverpool fan so fair play for your respect. Things like Munich and Hillsborough transcend football and you show real class in this post(mr Wallace take note)

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06 Feb 2014 14:07:41
I think that no matter we get into 4th place or not, we will still world class players joining in the summer. Our attacking front is already up to the mark. With world class players at CB, CM and LB, we will be an amazing team for many years to come. Wise players know that United is United after all. We will always thrive to stay at the top no matter what. So I don't think there will be any doubts about players joining us. We have a bright future for sure. and its good we are suffering now. This will initiate the much needed revamp that needed to be done some years ago. So there are a lot of positives to take. GGMU!

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I think we need a big summer, Chelsea and city are looking good at the moment and I think will add the finishing touches to there squad this summer. I also think arsenal will improve .
I do wonder if United are 12 month behind them 3 and the next coupling of seasons could be about building a team rather than winning titles

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Assuming players are on form then we have the bones of a very good first team. We already have a good squad but need to add world class additions. In terms of a starting 11, we already have De Gea, Rafael, Evans/Jones/Smalling who could all be good enough. Carrick or Fellaini could still merit a place, Januzaj, Rooney, Mata and RVP. We need to fill in the gaps with world class players and no more squad players.

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Are you having a laugh Fresh! We are well short of a good first 11! Jones is always injured. Smalling can be very uninspiring at times and I see Evans as a squad player.

Carrick is slowing down (if that is possible) & the Wig is not United class never will be.

We need 2 CB's, at least 2 DM's and a winger!

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As good as Chelsea and city?

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Jred

Depending on proper retooling and investment, we are 2 seasons away from contending for the PL title.

Both city and chelsea have completely retooled teams that have settled down and missing the finishing touches, where we will need to integrate 10 new players over 2 seasons, some from within the ranks but mostly from outside.

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Well the way I see it we need 4 world class stars at a minimum.

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GCU
I would agree, although I would like to think that we will be ready for a title and the Cl after next season.
Although we will have to step up in the transfer market no more time for excuses, time to put the money on the table

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Jred

I agree. Money talks and all the stuff being debated with regards to which players, formation etc etc become irrelevant if we do not invest significant money this summer.

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06 Feb 2014 13:56:08
R.I.P the busby babes. munich air disaster 1958. how feeble our worries look compared to what this mighty club has gone through. if our great club can come back from such a catastrophic disaster then our recent troubles are nothing but a slight blip on our way back to greatness.

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06 Feb 2014 12:15:33
Puts into perspective a few bad months on the pitch doesn't it?

Keep the red flag flying high,
'Coz Man United will never die

RIP

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06 Feb 2014 10:30:58
Munich 58. RIP Busby Babes.

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06 Feb 2014 10:19:16
I think some fans on here need to wake up and smell the coffee. Saying they'd like Vidal reus etc in the summer. Can anybody tell me why o why these players would leave their clubs to join united. We will be lucky to play in the Europa next season. Please don't give me give me the bull about massive club if we are that big of a club why did all of the players we went for last summer say david who?

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Having one bad season doesn't mean we're no longer a big club.

We're in transition.

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You are clearly not a Manchester United fan. With or without Cl football, United are one of the highest clubs in the world. It is a privilege for any players to play for a tram like United. Same as it is to play for Arsenal, Liverpool, Munich, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus and the Madrid clubs. These are the true "big clubs" that players want to play for. Others will go to whoever pays the most.
Make no mistake, United are still one of the highest and most attractive teams to play for. RVP and Mata could have earned more elsewhere, but chose United. Others will follow.
Do you honestly think we are no longer a massive club, as you put it, because of a bad few months?

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Highest should obviously be biggest. Damned phone.

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To be fair we have struggled to attract the top players fir a while.

For me it's quite simple pay the money you will get the player

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@ Betty, United is a huge club and one we all love but I think RVP came to us because he wanted to win trophies. Allegedly SAF assured him he would stat for 3 more years. I wonder if RVP would've chosen us if SAF was not manager.

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Lets not respond to posts like this on a day like today lads, clearly not a united fan.

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Unitedred71

Why did Mata come, I am sure if he waited until the summer he could get a move to any club of his choice. On a day like today, I do not want to get into the merits of United as a club and why players will join.

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Unitedred, my point is RVP still chose to sign for United. The OP implies that United are no longer a massive club because because we can't attract the big players because we might miss out on Europe and have David Moyes as manager. The truth is, we have failed to land our big name targets for many years now. Hazard, Moura, Schneidjerer are just 3 from a list of many. And that failure to land our targets started a long time before DM took over. SAF (the club) failed too. Our failures in the transfer market are nothing to do with not being a massive club, but more our failure to spend the required money. Agents fees have been another big stumbling block.
At the end of the day, we are still among the biggest and best in the world but if we want to sign the best players we need to spend the money.
We must also not forget that climate, lifestyle and culture have an influence too. But I am sure there will be those that blame David Moyes for the weather too :)

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GDS2

That post is totally unfair, MAjor mc is just putting his opinion over.
Why say something like that?
Totally uncalled for that.

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Understood Betty. I was trying to make the point that different players join for different reasons whether it be trophies or money or manager. But United not being a massive club is not one of them. Badly worded I guess.

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Simmo,

Not arguing mate, the OP is clearly not a United fan, and if he is then he is the worst kind. Just slagging the club off for the sake off it with no constructive criticism.

I was making the except same post GCU made.

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*Exact same point

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06 Feb 2014 10:15:13
WILL NEVER FORGET THE BUSBY BABES

LEGENDS RIP

Dont be surprised if Phil Jageilka
joins us in the summer!!

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Bfro not sure if jags is united quality but on a personal level he is a top bloke.

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06 Feb 2014 10:02:34
R.I.P the boys of '58.

Though time passes and memories fade, you will never be forgotten by Manchester United and its true supporters. Every 6th Feb we will mourn your passing, but remember what you did for our great club, and we will be forever grateful. Each new generation of United supporters will know your names, what you achieved and what you would have achieved, had you not been so cruelly taken. Your names and memory will live on forever because we are United.

R.I.P Busby Babes, gone but never ever forgotten.

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06 Feb 2014 09:30:56
Lest we forget, RIP the Flowers of Manchester. We'll keep the red flag flying high!

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06 Feb 2014 06:52:21
One cold and bitter Thursday in Munich. Lest we forget

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Here here Tony :-)

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06 Feb 2014 06:33:04
Today we should all remember the flowers of Manchester. 6th February 1958 was not long before I was born but I learned when young from my United supporting brother what had happened and how our team and club rose from that terrible day. It gives us all the strength to know that no matter how bad things are that we as a club can come back. This last year we lost another warrior survivor and great servant Bill Foulkes and rightly we remember him today as well as all those who lost their lives back and not just the United players. Today is extra poignant for me because as I posted in previous years today is also the day I lost the brother who told me all about Munich and made me the true red I am. I remember today.

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Always a sad day redman, I was born 2 months after the crash and became a utd fan against my blue nose dads wishes after regulary sitting listening to jackie blanchflower (rip) telling me about playing for utd and being in the air crash when he was the landlord of a pub in millbrook stalybridge.

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Very sad day and sorry to hear that on the personal front . I have my 12 year old currently reading a book on United and Munich and it is interesting listening to all his questions to say the least.

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Absolutely. They will never be forgotten and they gave their all for our club. Rip.

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06 Feb 2014 06:26:53
If any of you get chance ave a read of rio's last few tw***er posts, very interesting.

Also RIP the flowers of manchester 1958

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Wot he say?

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Blimey he's hardly being subtle is he?

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