Manchester United Banter Archive November 06 2017

 

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06 Nov 2017 19:54:19
That was terrible from start to finish. There was only ever going to be one winner.
Going for draws away from home is just frustrating to watch and disappointing as a supporter. We are getting what we deserve in these games.
I could maybe understand it if we always got the draw and nicked the odd win but we don't, we are getting a point in about half these games. Go to win them, will lose some but I bet we would win more.
Frustrating.
Also Lukaku is low on confidence and needs taking out for a game or two. He is offering nothing at the moment. He will get back to his best but give Rashford a few games up top in the meantime.

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06 Nov 2017 20:44:43
Lukaku is offering nothing because he is getting nothing. what's he suppost to do.

Any striker is going to struggle when were not creating.


We're going threw some bad form in the leauge it happens


We're missing a few threw injury and form from some is low.


We have played 11 games 27 still remain.

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06 Nov 2017 20:52:35
He is low on confidence. Every touch is poor at the moment.
I rate him and when he is on form he's a beast and is unstoppable. At the moment though he's struggling. He is getting very little service agreed but every sniff of goal he does get it doesn't look like he will take it at the moment.
All strikers go off the boil and a game or 2 out of the starting eleven would freshen him up and help to get him back firing on all cylinders.

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06 Nov 2017 22:05:44
No width no crosses no chances been that way for 5 games in a row. Not sure you can blame lukaku alone.
Its been that way for years now. A squad without 1 proper full back and no winger at all cannot be considered a strong squad imo. Yes we have good depth for forwards and cb's but its a squad with glaring defficiences in other areas.

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06 Nov 2017 22:37:05
2nb in the league behind city who are probably the most in form team in Europe .

The same city who have no defficiences?
All the stick sterling delph stones otamendi have got on thus site .
City have raised the bar but this tome last year Chelsea where top of the table with 1 mire point than we have now .

Ken
It's been that way for years? It wasn't that way a month ago .

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06 Nov 2017 22:51:27
In fact we had width chances and crosses last season as we we just never put the ball in the net .


2nd in the league but we got beat of Chelsea a team we haven't beat at Stamford bridge in 16 games .

We got beat of Huddersfield where our players not good enough to beat there players?
Why did we lose that game .
What's the excuse for that game the only other team to beat us this season .

Would United look as bad if city didn't look so good?

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06 Nov 2017 23:18:18
Agreed Jred. We have been shocking for last 4 games or so but some of the overreactions on here are a bit much. We won't win the league as city are in a different class but once we get our fit players back i expect us to put a good run together.

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06 Nov 2017 23:35:39
You think we went for a draw? I must have been watching a different game.

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07 Nov 2017 00:40:52
Park3
We have been pretty crap last 4 games and that has seen us end up second in the league .
Better than the rest but not on the level of what pep is doing at city .

The melt down over a loss to Chelsea away a fixture we have won once in the last 16 games is nuts .


Forget Chelsea and all this talk off we haven't got the players to beat Chelsea, there not good enough etc . what do we need to beat Huddersfield, is our squad not better than there's
Chelsea got stuffed 3 days earlier.

2nd in the league top of our group in the CL and are our players playing well? Where would we be if we where playing to the best of our ability .
A bit like city,

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07 Nov 2017 01:54:04
Lukaku scores goals against bottom half teams and does nothing against top teams he will frustrate us.

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07 Nov 2017 05:26:04
This "past 4 games" is just based on results, we have played poorly for a long time, even when we were beating inferior opposition.

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07 Nov 2017 08:03:28
So all them 4.0 wins are use playing poorly.
How many would we of won by if we played well .

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07 Nov 2017 09:00:13
Yes Jred, won by a lot more if we played to anywhere near our potential.

Blitzing teams a few times in 5 minutes, doesn't count as a whole game, what about the other 85mins? Also those games seem a while ago now, and were against teams in turmoil for the most part.

Palace change of manager
Everton change of manager
West Ham change of manager
Leicester change of manager (we only beat these 2-0)

Granted the Swansea result was 4-0 and they don't seem to be in turmoil - however the game was horrible to watch and Swansea were very much in it and scary until we blitzed them from nowhere.

Put us against half decent teams and we struggle. Even the Spurs 1-0 could easily have been reversed had Alli scored a minute before we did. All if's but's and maybe's, but those 4-0 wins flattered us. Only great league performance this season was against West Ham. We have played in a similar way all season, this is why we struggle to lift it when our backs are against the wall.

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07 Nov 2017 09:13:30
Beast,

Shoulda woulda coulda, Alli didn't score and we won, you could say we would have beat Chelsea if Rashford's header goes in, it works both ways.

We are 37 games unbeaten at home, the longest run in Europe, we have let 4 league goals in at Old Trafford 2017 and none this season, not sure how when we are terrible in most games.

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07 Nov 2017 09:17:56
Beast
2nd in league .
If we win by 4 you say we are poor
If we lose we are poor
We beat spurs, a half decent team and we are poor .

Palace beat Chelsea
Everton beat city
Leicester my god we only only beat them 2.0?
West ham we only beat 4.0 should dock the players wages.

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07 Nov 2017 09:36:10
Calling it as I see it. After virtually every win this season the responses on here have mainly been "well who cares about the performance, it's the result that matters". Then when we start drawing/ losing instead of winning despite playing in a similar way, the responses are "well we can't play well every week".

Results are dictating the majority of peoples interpretation of the performance. It's easy to look at our results in a list format and think we are doing well, easy to look at the league table and think we are second so all seems good. But they are misleading in my eyes. I remember being impressed twice all season, Burton and West Ham games. The rest were mainly like watching paint dry, throw in a few glimpses of what we are capable of and it doctors everything for some people.

Just because a prostitute has a night off the job it doesn't mean she isn't a prostitute anymore!

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07 Nov 2017 10:15:04
Before the liverpool game 99 % of people where happy with how we where playing, there really wasnt that many complaining.
Since the liverpool game it's been a mixed again I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that .

We are that terrible, our players are that bad, our performances that poor that we are as low as 2nb in the league .

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07 Nov 2017 10:39:48
I don't think people were truly happy with how we were playing. Maybe they thought it was a necessary stepping stone, Rome wasn't built in a day etc. We have been winning ugly for the most part, but the majority of fans are content with that, satisfied even, I doubt many are really happy with what they get from watching us for 90 minutes every week - but the results smoothed over the tedium of most games. Maybe they were connecting a big win on paper with entertainment, I don't know. I do know that looking at our results paints a completely different picture than watching the games that got us those results!

There have been a lot of people saying well before the Liverpool game that the performances weren't ideal but it's about picking up the points and getting the winning habit back at the club. I have debated this virtually every week for the past 18 months+, the whole results/ performance thing is not a new phenomenon since the Liverpool boredraw, its been going on for ages. All of last season and during LVG reign I was banging that drum and slowly but surely the momentum builds.

We obviously haven't been terrible, I'm not saying that at all. We haven't been very good, I expect better from our team, manager and frankly the fans. I mentioned to Shan earlier on the other page that Jose is one of the most ruthless managers out there when it comes to players being punished for not being 100%, why shouldn't he be held to the same standards by the people that pay his wages? Jose doesn't tolerate anything but the best, he even wants MORE money to spend to be the best. Yet we are meant to tolerate what we are seeing from Jose's Man Utd?

We all support Utd, we all want free flowing entertaining football and to be followers of a winning team - but we each have our own expectations. I expect a lot more performance wise, I also expect better results against decent opposition - I certainly expect to see signs, but they evaporate as quickly as they emerge.

Even those Mickey Mouse cup wins last season didn't appease me, we all have our standards and I'm pleased for those that are happy with how things are going (I wish I could be) . I'm just different, but there is a growing rumbling of discontent and it's totally justified in my eyes.

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07 Nov 2017 10:48:40
Beast even if the prostitute if off I am sure she is providing enjoyment somewhere and somehow, well at least she will enjoy šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚.

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07 Nov 2017 11:25:00
Beast
I think we have been very Jose. The 90s have gone and some of our wins performances have been what I would call a Jose type performance .

Last season 6th was poor imo this season first half was pretty good been very average since the scouse .
But it's not all doom and gloom .
To be honest I don't think your ever going to be happy with Jose as manager not sure your ever going g to enjoy his style of footy .
I suppose that's why a few didn't want him as manager.

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07 Nov 2017 11:49:46
All true mate.

If we play like we did against West Ham then I would be delighted though, I don't expect it every week of course, just more than once or twice a season. I think I wouldn't be quite as frustrated had I not see what we were capable of in that game. But yes Jose's style is not for me, bit of out of the frying pan and into the fryer, been a hard few years for me with the managers we have chosen.

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07 Nov 2017 13:36:43
GDS, not trying to be pedantic, but I thought we played for the win, only in the first ten minutes. After that, we were swamped, and we seemed to shrink back into our shell again. We only got going again in the last five minutes.

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06 Nov 2017 17:39:30
Manchester evening news saying mourinho wants more backing from united and mendes has been or is talking to psg? any truth or just media rubbish? also yesterdays performance was awful. dunno was it mourinho tactics or the players or both but it needs to be addressed. thanksšŸ‘.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - All sorts of things are going on at the moment.}

06 Nov 2017 18:23:18
Wow, If this is true then it's a bit of a shocker even by Jose's standards. We have twice spent a lot of money and I am sure more is available so I can't believe that is driving him to bat his eyelids at other teams. If it is then so be it.

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06 Nov 2017 18:25:12
Can you expand on that please Ed at all?

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{Ed002's Note - There is no need to at this time.}

06 Nov 2017 19:42:16
Getting sick of Mourinho. Is spending a kings ransom not enough. Seems to me he has lost his touch. Its been a disaster since Fergie left. Terrible managers with poor signingsI donā€™t know what the answer is. i'm sick of dull boring football.

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06 Nov 2017 20:57:17
It's a strange comment isn't it why would the manager of a club like man United be making them comments about PSG . It's a bit odd.

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06 Nov 2017 23:36:59
Blackpool,

Jose doesnā€™t agree the fees for players, he just identifies the players he wants, one of which we didnā€™t get.

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07 Nov 2017 01:55:58
Because that's the things he does before he gets sacked usually takes 3 seasons starting earlier now.

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06 Nov 2017 17:00:17
The last international break came at a bad time and we have not hit the ground since. This break has now come at the right time and hopefully JosƩ will take stock, maybe a few players return and we can get back to the team earlier in the season.
That said second place should not feel too bad. Even though it currently does.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

06 Nov 2017 13:23:24
I mentioned a little further down thebiage the uneasy Jose / Utd alliance at the moment.

Jose himself is getting more bristly and the fans are beginning to murmur their discontent. On here and in the wider fan community.

I wanted the old Jose at Utd - this version doesn't feel right to me. However, I'm torn as he has won us two good trophies and we are still 2nd but the football is dire and is a slight upgrade on LVG. The balance of our team has not felt right in years.

I think changing him is too rash - but we shall see at the end of the season just how the land lies. I'd not be surprised with a change to be honest if his contract talks don't go well and he continues to simmer.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

06 Nov 2017 14:17:56
For me the question should be are we moving in the right direction?

Have we progressed since LvG? Yes clearly.

Have we progressed since last season? It's hard to say for definate, we are on the whole playing better football. The last few weeks have been poor, but we have handed out a few beatings early on which we didn't manage last season. I feel when we get key players back from injury we will see an upturn in performance levels. We are currently second place, in the league we finished 6th last season. So some progress has been made. But it is hard to fully judge until the end of the season. In May for example we could be out of all the cups and in 8th place, or we could still be first place with the UCL, FA cup and league cup all under our belt in a historic quadruple.

Both are unlikely scenarios, but both still possible. Let's hold off judgement until we can catagorically say if we have progressed or regressed from last season.

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06 Nov 2017 14:39:22
To go from 6th to Champions is some jump so perhaps our early form raised expectations too high. I expect by us to comfortably top 4, hopefully 2nd. There is a lot of moaning and groaning right now, including from me, and Beast has made some good points. Do we have a plan was one of them and I agree that not sure how we are setting up.

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06 Nov 2017 15:18:42
I think anyone wanting mourinho sacked need their heads examined. For all the valid criticism of our recent performances and his overall tactics, demeanor and constant moaning, we are still 2nd even if 8 points behind city and did win 2 trophies last season.

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06 Nov 2017 16:23:43
I don't want him sacked, I don't particularly like him but I don't want him sacked. I would like to ask him why are we playing such slow boring football, why do we play for 90 minutes in one of the best leagues in the world with international players and only muster 2 shots on target - why can't we string 5 passes together, we train 5 days a week and we can't even do the basics - does he feel that we are inferior to other teams not like Spurs, or city, barcelona, madrid or juve but teams like Benfica, Basle, Southampton who played rings around us recently in large parts of the games , they might not have got the points but they gave us a game where we were lucky to win. Is there coaching better than ours?


Those would be my starters.

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06 Nov 2017 17:14:45
Because our 2 man midfield gets overwhelmed by teams playing 3 in the middle. they are constantly rushed with very little time to move the ball. Happened at Liverpool and same at Chelsea. we get way with it when Pogba plays because he is a physical specimen.

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06 Nov 2017 12:03:34
To be frank the slating of Lukaku is annoying as hell, both from fans and pundits. As a striker myself, I know how aggravated he must be with the way we play.

We all know Romelu Lukaku isn't a hold up striker, nor is he an Aubameyang-esque in behind type striker. He's a jack of all trades, but a master of none in reality.

However, when critcised for "going missing in big games", it's genuinely mind boggling as to how we set up to play to almost get nothing from him.

If we plan on lumping it up to him to head it, we must have wingers running in behind, or another striker playing off him. which we never f**cking do. Then we switch it up, and lump it 30 yards ahead of him to chase against 2/ 3 centre backs, with no body else putting similar pressure on the open spaces.

It's almost as if our team is set up to lump it, then if we retain the ball the players think "oh f*ck Rom actually got to that one, best try and get up there to help", in which time the opposition have also got back.

Our style of play is ridiculous. Look at the players we have, top coaches would love to work with a lot of them, and would have them playing great, attacking football against any opposition.

One thing about Mourinho is that he is a manager, but by all means he isn't a coach. He knows how to field a team of good players, but that's where he stops. He doesn't really have any upstandintg tactical implementation other than 10 behind the ball and run. He puts his team out and let's them do the work, but putting 11 different pegs in 11 square holes just doesn't do much good.

Our team currently seriously lacks in personality, and I hate to blow his trumpet too much, but Pogba seriously drags us through in the pizzazz his play style brings. We would be truly woeful without his influence in the side.

Mourinho's inconsistency shows he isn't the right man for the job, but yet his ego just keeps him coming back. The man talks the talk, but he kinda just stumbles the walk, yet somehow gets there. I've been naive in thinking Mourinho would be the right one, hell any doubts I had were overshadowed immediately by the trophies we won last season.

I miss Manchester United, and everything this club has become is a facade of what and who we are. So, i'll ask the question. Is being successful all that good, when you aren't having fun in doing so?

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06 Nov 2017 13:01:37
Totally agree Mpez - We could have Messi, Ronaldo or whoever up top it would be similar, been saying it since RVP, Falcao etc all flopped with this attack with 3 men maximum philosophy - even Ibra didn't excel as well as he is capable of.

Problem on top for Lukaku is that he is a bit of a donkey on the ball to be fair, so it was a ridiculous signing considering the way Jose wants us to play. With proper wingers and a creative midfielder that gets the ball in space he would be a revelation and great value for money, but as it is he just compounds the problem because he struggles to control a ball and isn't sure where he should be half the time (nor would I be because it's helter skelter behind him) . I feel sorry for Lukaku, bit similar in some ways to when Liverpool signed Carroll, totally the wrong striker for the way they wanted to play.

Great points on Jose - the mojo he had has gone and it's all far too predictable. We lack personality throughout the team, almost everyone seems to be going through the motions.

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06 Nov 2017 13:16:24
When Lukaku was scoring he was brilliant and it was a joke that we re-signed Zlatan, now he's had a bit of a bad patch he is a ridiculous signing.

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06 Nov 2017 13:35:12
No one has scored more goals from open play in the league this season than lukaku .
We are second in the league, poor performance yesterday beat spurs last Sunday.
Chelsea excellent yesterday awful against Roma on Wednesday.

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06 Nov 2017 16:57:47
I think what we have got with Lukaku is exactly what we thought. Quality striker who will score a shed full of goals but may go missing against the big boys. Also he is someone who needs service.
All of which we have seen.
With Pogba back I think he will get back on track, I also hope this is the case for Mikki too.

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06 Nov 2017 17:18:42
Lukaku had such bad service and only thing coming his way was a high ball with 2 or sometimes 3 defenders around him and rash seemed so far away to provide him an outlet. He is not a donkey and its mick's job to orchestrate play and provide him with better service but at the moment he is quite poor. Can't even remember a single telling pass from mick to lusaka yesterday as he was losing the ball or watching fabregas run past him.

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07 Nov 2017 00:44:54
Most of the centre of the pitch where mimi should b was empty for a good portion of the game. i'm a fan of miki but he's costing us points now.

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06 Nov 2017 11:10:32
When is Pogba back we are lost without him.

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{Ed001's Note - he is due back after the international break.}

06 Nov 2017 12:18:37
Thank God we really are list without him. Thanks for the quick response.

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{Ed001's Note - you are very welcome Burke.}

06 Nov 2017 10:59:03
The season so far:

Exactly as expected. We're better than last year but need some more players and time before Jose trusts the team enough to send them out to destroy direct rivals for the title.

I think most of us expected top three would be the logical progress this year and we seem on track for that. Some performances have been bad recently and I'm not entirely happy, but again, looking back to what I thought would happen at the beginning of the season, we are bang on track.

Two more transfer windows, a third place finish this year and we should be ready to challenge for the title next year. If performances are still like this against the top six next season, if we are still below par for a title challenge, then I might start to moan/ worry/ criticise. But for now, what else did anyone expect?

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06 Nov 2017 11:12:00
We have no lb. An average rb.
No left winger or right winger.
No one to put a decent cross in to big rom. Yesterday we didn't have a creative midfielder to link the players up top.
We have 2 average central defenders.
But the positive is we have a world class keeper.
Plus we need an ole gole to come off the bench.
So for me it's back to the drawing board and hope we can finish in the top 4.
We are at least 5 players away from the title.
The sooner pogba comes back the better but with a club like United we shouldn't be depending on one player.

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06 Nov 2017 12:59:38
Not sure if any of that is an argument against what I said Leahy, apologies if it's not meant to be! :) Two windows = 5 more players (at least) . So by next season we will either be challenging or I'll be agreeing with the naysayers. As for this season, it's gone exactly as reasonably expected so far when you consider the scale of the job.

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07 Nov 2017 16:09:00
Would be lovely to know what people disagree with rather than just thumbs down. Polite discourse, my fellow humans, we need more of it.

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06 Nov 2017 09:47:05
Carragher: "United were playing with 10 men with Mkhitaryan on the pitch. "

Very true, but how would people resolve this issue with the current players we have? Mata seriously lacks pace which is no good when Lukaku and Rash are playing counter attacking football.

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06 Nov 2017 10:16:39
Syd, since Pogba has been out injured Mkhitaryan hasnā€™t scored a goal or provided an assist. He is very much a player who only shows up when the team is playing well, but disappears when the chips are down.

Yesterday we could have literally played anyone and they would have provided more to the team than Mkhitaryan provided. Lingard has fantastic work rate and has a habit of stepping up in the big occasions. We could have played Blind at LB, he was good against Benfica. Then pushed Young further up the pitch. We could have played McTominay and he would have been more involved than Mkhitaryan was yesterday. We could have played Martial alongside Lukaku and dropped Rashford into the No.10 role Mkhitaryan played yesterday. If Fellaini is fit enough for the bench he could have started.

For me though yesterday I thought we were tactically outdone, they went with Kante, Bakayoko and Fabregas in midfield, all very mobile. They swamped us, we were too static and outnumbered. Now although I feel Pogba has been a massive miss for us over the last month or so, I donā€™t believe he would have made a huge difference yesterday. Matic has been a fantastic signing for us, but he does lack mobility, same as Fellaini and Carrick. We need to have a midfielder or two who can add some mobility to our midfield, players who never stop moving, and not just running but smart movement, players who create space for their team and shut it off for the opponent.

Yesterday we had a game like everyone on here has been crying out for, an open end to end game. Iā€™m glad to see everyone is happy with the performance and the result.

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06 Nov 2017 10:16:59
Wilkins: "Lukaku lacks hold up play. "

Again very true, something Fellaini, Ibra and Pogba are great at. Holding up play for the runners.

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06 Nov 2017 10:18:39
Play a different way. Most games we have 2 or 3 that don't turn up not just Miki, we aren't good enough to carry them against good teams. All of our attackers have 1 good game in 4 (or more), it's not good enough - most players are anonymous for 85mins of the game. These attacking players we have are very good, so clearly we need to unleash them and that means having more men attacking creating space and providing options on and off the ball. Everyone is so isolated.

Sacrifice some of the defensive cover, for offensive options. It's harder to score than to keep a team out, especially as most teams will operate ultra defensively against us if they fear that we will attack. Look how City can play 20 yards further forward all game with their DM being more creative than our best attacking player. We have had some true quality creative players and great attackers in recent years, but they are wasted more often than not on account of too few players attacking.

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06 Nov 2017 10:20:18
Syd however good we play and however bad we played there will always something missing. We have a bunch of players missing and weā€™re far from being the finished article so people will always complain. Thatā€™s only human.
Itā€™s early still and I can remember there were so much complaints last season and all seems to be cool when we win the silverwares.
Get use to it and hear what people say end of this season. I think weā€™re ok tbh but of course thereā€™ll be plenty of negative comments to come still. But I agree with you on your post.

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06 Nov 2017 10:24:20
Pogba fellaini and Mata should all be available for our next game .

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06 Nov 2017 10:40:19
I agree with shaps lots of other options and Chelsea got there tactics right .

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06 Nov 2017 13:38:26
Good post Shaps.

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06 Nov 2017 16:52:21
Who's this 'bunch of player's that's missing? Apart from Pogba?

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07 Nov 2017 13:38:40
I'm not Lukaku's biggest fan, but even I can see the lad's not getting anywhere near enough decent service.

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06 Nov 2017 09:22:30
A lot of depressed fans around and understandably so. However looking at it in another way, we can say we played 3 our of the supposed top 6 we drew at anfield, beat Spurs at Old Trafford and lost 1-0 to the defending champions at the bridge; a place where we were scored 4 goals last season.
Realistically, at the start of the season, how many fans thought we will have a different outcome form these 3 games? I have seen a lot of posts about of defense and some attributes of lack of from various players. But for me one thing that stood out yesterday was that Mhki is no Hazard.
We have a 100% record in the CL, something which shouldn't be brushed off bcos if you remember the last time we were in a similar group we ended up qualifying for Europa.
What hurts now is the gap between city and us. Will be tough to claw back, but not impossible.

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mbd              

06 Nov 2017 09:55:16
You think, based on the current squad that we had, we couldn't defeat a poor Liverpool side or even take the game to Chelsea?

I think the last two matches of the CL have been poor. The goal against Benefica (Away) was pure luck and so was the first goal we scored against them at home. We didn't take the game to them, if you remember correctly, then it was Benefica that looked like they might score, especially at Old Trafford.

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06 Nov 2017 10:24:32
I think we have struggled since the player we have built our side around got injured. We were flying when Pogba was in the team, he got injured and we replaced him with Fellaini, he was no Pogba but we continued to get results. Then he got injured and we had to replace him with Herrera, since then we have struggled to get the results.

So yes considering our injuries and how those injuries have impacted the team then yes I donā€™t feel there is much else we could have done with the players available at the time to improve the result.

Our midfielders being out and our drop off in form also coincide with Lukaku picking up an injury playing for Belgium. He hasnā€™t looked quite the same since. He has missed a few chances in several games he was smashing away in the first few games this season. If he scored his chances in the last few games then we would have beaten both Liverpool and Chelsea in all likelihood.

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06 Nov 2017 12:00:25
Sorry mbd, but yesterday you could easily have lost 4-0 again. Bakayoko alone could have had a hat trick!

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06 Nov 2017 13:56:12
I hate to agree with Chelsea but he's right. We were well beaten a 1-0 defeat flattered us.

I was amazed how we approached the game and the space afforded to Hazard, Fabregas and Morata was criminal I have no idea what our game plan was yesterday, if we even had one? Very strange! Jose was even magnanimous in defeat.

We could have maybe nicked an equaliser at the end playing huff ball to Fellaini. He should have come in at HT instead of Miki, played higher up the pitch and we could have played over their high press which we just couldn't cope with. Our defenders aren't the strongest in possession and when they get pressed we can't retain the ball and give it away in dangerous areas. At least Fellaini might have given them something to think about. The fact he slotted in next to Matic and Herrra was baffling. He's not the best in possession himself and almost gave a couple of goals away losing possession around our box.

Conte got his tactics spot on and Jose had no answer.

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06 Nov 2017 15:28:15
We also missed some good opportunities and Courtois made some good saves as well.

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mbd              

06 Nov 2017 08:08:30
Rant? Not really, Iā€™d call it an honest opinion of what we all say yesterday.

1. De Gea: Couldnā€™t do much the header, I think Morata connected with it beautifully, the culprit is the defense, they gave him far too much space. If the striker is between your two centre-backs, then he bound to score.

2. Valencia: I know you all love him here. I donā€™t. I think he is extremely one dimensional. While his defending and tracking back might be right up there, itā€™s his ability once he crosses the half-way line that really bugs me. The amount of time he will check back inside, or even hoof the ball upfield is just one too many. His delivery in the final third is questionable, and Iā€™m not saying this because of the last match, but even in other matches, he seems to always strike the ball rather than whip it or even float it.

3. Chris Smalling: I donā€™t know what to say about this fellow. His defending is shambolic to say the least. His 10 yard passes wobble and bounce around. His arms always seem to like the opponent neck, back or shoulders more than them being at the right place.

4. Phil Jones: Improved as a player, yes. Does the odd mistake, but overall his game seems to be better. Obviously, the not being injured often part is good for him. Didnā€™t do much wrong last night.

5. Eric Bailly:

6. Ashley Young: I think he started the game pretty well, took on Zapacosta a few times, but failed to beat him or put in a quality ball. The moment we conceded, he started hoofing the ball upfield which was rubbish. He is probably one of the few players who deserve to be in the squad right now, based on the way he has been playing.

7. Ander Herrera: I was his biggest fan last season and I couldnā€™t stop talking about how good he was. This season has been another story altogether. I think his approach has changed a bit, his forward passing used to crisp and precise, now, he only manages to play those passes either sideways or backwards, which is not what you need from a defensive / box to box midfielder. I may be wrong here, but I donā€™t he and Matic are a good fit when played alongside the other.

8. Nemanja Matic: While he has brought the much-needed composure and calm to our squad, there are times, when the game sort of passes by him and yesterdayā€™s game was a classic example of that. I think he was too slow on the ball last night, he failed to dominate the centre of the park and because Herrera wasnā€™t able to provide proper coverage, he was all over the pitch. Still, I think heā€™s been one of the standout players this season. He keeps the game simple and makes everyone tick. He was best when he was playing with Pogba. I think that combination worked best for us, not just in terms of the teams ticking, but also because Matic could concentrate on keeping the flow going and Pogba could run his magic in the opponent's half.

9. Rashford: Heā€™s been disappointing, and not just yesterday, itā€™s been a few games now that he has been bang-average. His decision making in the final third is questionable, his set-pieces arenā€™t good enough. Yes, he is young and he has the speed to take on any defender, but I think that is not good enough, there has to be an end product to what he is doing. Again, he can be a good player, he has the ability. But cutting him slack by saying heā€™s just 20 and still learning is not the right way to go about it.

10. Mkhitaryan: What the heck is up with this dude? He was magnificent in the opening 4-5 games. He was pinging passes left right and centre and now it feels like he canā€™t even pass 5 yards without messing up. Is his game suffering because he has to track back? I donā€™t think so, he is not closing down the opposition, he is not putting in a tackle. Yesterday, Fabregas went past him with ease. It felt more like he was giving him a boost, rather than try and stop him. He is another player who is suffering without Pogba in the team. Maybe he could do with some time outside the starting 11, but who do you play if not him.

11. Lukaku: Whatā€™s the point of buying a striker who costs you 75 million quid and then starve him off the service that he needs. I mean, this is the third or the fourth game where is just trying to latch on to hopeful long balls. If I was a striker in the current squad, Iā€™d honestly tell my mates to f**k off and play ball to feet. because he always running after long balls, he hardly gets the space to run at defenders. I doubt that if given the chance to take on a defender, he wouldnā€™t be able to.


Anyway, itā€™s been a while since United really kicked out of second gear and took the game to the opposition. While I know Jose will never give you swashbuckling football, but this is dross and not football.

I think, with Pogba coming back soon, it should help with getting that creativity into the squad, but then again, the others who are getting their chances need to really take them and not depend on one single player. Letā€™s hope the team improves post the international break.

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06 Nov 2017 08:37:53
Raghav

Good post, i think Mourinhoā€™s approach to the big games is an issue. Last season when we beat Chelsea we played two up top and used our pace against them.
Yesterday it was long balls are us. Half wit tactics that looked desperate. I think Mourinho wonā€™t stay the full 3 years.

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06 Nov 2017 09:04:32
So we need at least 9 new players then raghav?

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06 Nov 2017 09:12:34
That's a pretty good assessment of where we are, I agree on Valenica, he's a top bloke but so predictable when he comes forward and he continually slows the play by stopping and turning back.

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06 Nov 2017 09:49:08
Angelred:

No, I don't mean we need 9 new players. I don't think my post meant that. We need to get rid of a few, we all know that. But most importantly, we need to make the players play to their strength and not their weakness. We need players to attack the game, not defend, defend and defend. If that is the mentality, then play Blind instead of Rashford and Darmian instead of any creative player, get Lindelof instead of Mkhi, so that the opposition has no chance of scoring against you.

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06 Nov 2017 09:51:19
Mad hatter:

I agree, against top teams Mou's set-up has been quite poor. He seems to shy away from the term 'take the game to the opposition. ' Till the time that doesn't change, I doubt the results would change.

It feels like he doesn't trust the players, but this is more or less the squad that he wanted. So he should be playing in a way that will make them use their skill.

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06 Nov 2017 09:52:13
Ajh: Yeah, i agree. He's been a great player for the club, but the game has evolved and one needs players who can play at a high-tempo and that's not just running or defending, it's those one-two passes that help you gain a yard or two in the other half.

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06 Nov 2017 14:47:40
Does anyone think maybe Toni is given instructions to play the way he does. I'm sure if JosƩ told him to run at fullbacks, then he would.

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06 Nov 2017 16:54:41
Lvg same instruction? Moyes same instruction? Fergie same instruction. Toni get 3/ 4 way up the pitch and turn back or get a bit further on and whack it as hard as you can across goal?
Valencia does 2 thirds of his role as well as many right backs but he is hopeless as an attacking threat.

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06 Nov 2017 17:24:40
raghav, madhatter I've got to agree with everything you both say.2 new fullbacks another box 2 box as cover for pogba clearly herrera doesn't work and I also think we need 2 wingers/ wide attackers that'll stay high and wide waiting for the full back to overlap to stretch the opposition defence or at least get rashford/ martial doing that as we bottleneck our attack.

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06 Nov 2017 19:07:28
Ken, all those managers play a similar type of football in my opinion. Could you see Pep giving him the same instructions? Or any more attack-minded coach, to be fair.

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06 Nov 2017 22:08:41
Lvg and jose play the exact opposite. Jose does not want to dominate possession lvg does.

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06 Nov 2017 22:07:50
Fergie?

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06 Nov 2017 08:05:42
A bad result can generate a lot of emotion but if we take a step back we haven't been playing well for a while. 7 points from the last 5 league games and unconvincing (although winning) in Europe. I maintain we have good players and a very strong team, for some reason many of them are not playing well and I don't think it is purely down to Pogba being out.

So did we flatter to deceive initially or are we just having a rough patch? Whatever is happening I think it needs sorting. We were overrun in midfield yesterday, I liked the 4-3-3 in the second half but none of the midfielders were breaking forward to link with the forwards. I still think this formation has potential.

There are a lot of issues people are highlighting and one for me is our movement, or lack of. Watch other teams and see how many players are constantly moving looking for the ball, we seem very static a lot of the time and given the pace we have it's a surprise.

Right now we have some very good players who are playing poorly, whatever else might be wrong, this is the biggest issue.

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06 Nov 2017 09:19:18
We have flattered to deceive all season bar a couple of games. We will dominate against far inferior teams (on paper) as will all top 6/ 7, but our chance creation has been poor most games. No cohesion going forward, not enough attackers moving off the ball looking for the second/ third ball. We look like a cobbled together rep team, not a team that trains together every day.

We benefited from a very easy start to the season fixture wise, Everton was meant to be the tricky game but they were in freefall at the time.

Pogba has looked pretty good this season, not amazing - yet most of us are praying for a quick return. That says it all for me. The constant theme is "inconsistency", players look underprepared, how Valencia and Young can be starting week in week out after spending hundreds of millions is a sad indictment - they are our two most reliable outfield players along with Matic.

I don't see much in reserve as well. We could throw in Mata, Lingard, Martial for example but they play well 1 out of every 4 games in the league. Miki, Herrera, Lukaku, pretty much the same at the moment. Maybe being generous with the 1 in 4.

I knew Lukaku was the wrong decision, we don't service a striker and he isn't intelligent enough off the ball or on the ball. He is a brute that relies on good service and numbers around him moving defenders. He'll get goals, just like any striker will for Utd because we do play a lot of poor teams.

I know I've been hammering the manager for a while and most of you are sick of it, but I'm not too sure how many more examples you need to see to understand he isn't right for a club like ours - I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt on account of his record, but LVG had a good record as well - it doesn't count for much if you can't get the most from your squad and don't address blatant issues during the window. Jose won the league with Chelsea, I think that Europa League win was the same thing. remember they limped to the title that last year, playing some horrible stuff after Xmas, he got sacked less than 12 months later because nothing changed. That's where we are. We played horrible stuff last year, lucky to beat very weak teams on the way to our cup successes. We are playing horrible football most games now, maybe a 5 minute blitz of the Old Utd every now and again, but they are rare.

Every manager will claim they need more time to build their team. We will beat top teams now and again, as will any team. But I doubt anybody believes we look close to being the finished article, we look just as far as we were under LVG (we have improved but so would any team with an extra Ā£250m spent) . Our main rivals have progressed quicker than we have, I can see what our rivals are trying to do. With us, I just can't see a plan other than hope to keep a clean sheet and nick a goal against any half decent team. We are as predictable as my negativity - not hard to play against us at all.

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06 Nov 2017 09:37:02
Beast, I love your passion. The comment that stood out for me is 'a good record doesn't count for much if you can't get the best from your squad' and therin lies the main issue, we have good players who are playing poorly.

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06 Nov 2017 10:19:18
So whatā€™s the answer? Keep sacking managers until one works? Not sure thatā€™s the way either but it does seem to me that the Jose / Utd alliance is an uneasy one right now. We canā€™t be seen to keep sacking managers and Jose canā€™t be seen to fail at another big club. They both need each other right now.

I think deep down, although we wonā€™t admit it publicly, we all wanted Pep and now he has gone to City we are seeing what we could have had. Albeit Jose has won more trophies at Utd then Pep at City!

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06 Nov 2017 10:47:53
I think that is the answer Eric. You don't marry the 3rd bird you go out with, just because the previous 2 weren't right for you. Getting the right manager is a very difficult job, the turnover is ridiculously high. Football is a different beast to a normal management role though, I agree in typical industry changing your head honcho every year is counter-productive, but in football it can turn on a dime. We have seen enough of Jose to know he won't change, Chelsea made the change 3 months into the season after he won the title - look how they did last season because they were proactive.

On paper Jose was what we needed - but in reality we all wanted the old Jose, like we all wanted the old LVG - not the tired versions we have attracted. Keep churning through them until we find the perfect match, then we make Old Trafford their home for the next 20 years if possible. Don't settle for second best performance wise because you end up getting second best.

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06 Nov 2017 16:56:46
Ajh those ' good players' have played poorly for us for 2 3 or 4 years depending on when they signed. Tjey have been playing poorly for 3 or 4 managers. Perhaps they are average players playing to their ability.

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06 Nov 2017 07:06:09
Two players i wish to have a discussion on based not on what we saw yesterday but over the past 45 days or so. Herrera and Mkhitaryan. Mkhi started way too well but has gone off the boil ever since Pogba got injured. Why couldn't Mata play there instead of him. Even Lingard gives more. He never closes down players. doesn't even challenge for the 50-50s. Its like he is doing us a favor by being on the pitch. I admire the player but his attitude on the pitch is in serious question.

Herrera- can't blv he was player of the year. He has been serious crap. He gives nothing on the pitch other than being the 10th player on the pitch (11th is Mkhi) . I thought once he got his chance post Pogba's injury, he would grab it. He has done nothing at all to justify his inclusion. Nothing in attack and nothing in defence and just gives away useless fouls. Matic just has to do the work for two players himself. He isn't superhuman and needs support. Herrera at the moment isn't doing enough.

These type of performances would be there when we have passengers on the pitch. No wonder Jose moans about missing Fellaini and Pogba. Someone needs to shove their boot up their asses on the pitch. What i would give to have Roy Keane on the pitch to witness these players. For now may be Zlatan could do that.

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06 Nov 2017 07:40:54
So now we are blaming mkhi and Herrera not only for their bad performances but also for being picked because apparently mkhi and Herrera now pick themselves in the 11, wonder what mourinho does then?

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06 Nov 2017 08:02:21
Remember when it was all fellaini fault.

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06 Nov 2017 09:01:56
Moyes go wash your face and read the post. Or tell me that they are playing brilliantly well and i am readimg the game wrong.

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06 Nov 2017 09:34:48
Shan you need to wash eyes and read what you have written.

You are blaming mkhi and Herrera for yesterday while also saying that they have been poor for months. If they have been poor for months why are they still starting and since your post doesn't mention the man picking them laying the blame squarely on the players so I just took the logical conclusion that the players must be picking themselves.

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06 Nov 2017 09:38:08
Nobody is saying they are playing well but your scathing assessment is a little harsh. Still, at least you've moved on from Rashford.

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06 Nov 2017 10:31:21
Jeez Moyes, "based not on yesterdays performance" means not based on yesterdays performance. If you don't believe what i wrote, go through the pages buddy and my sentiments have been echoed.

Tony, i still have my reservations with Rashford but i have taken in what everybody has said here, he is young and needs time. let's see where he is 12 months from now.

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06 Nov 2017 11:14:41
Shan but the question still remains the same, i have not said they have performed well, i have been criticizing mkhi for this performances even when he was padding his performances with stats and everyone was gushing about him. But when do you stop blaming the players and start blaming the manager for picking a player who has been consistently rubbish. This is like LVG and rooney and fair few here including me blamed lvg as well as rooney for that, you seem to be only blaming the players, which i feel is unfair.

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06 Nov 2017 13:13:38
Buddy its the manager's fault to pick Mkhi. Agreed. And that's why i said "play Mata" or even Lingard. But who do you play if not Herrera. There are no midfielders available. Herrera needed to pick his game up to challenge Pogba or even Fellaini. He has just gone backwards. Players are at fault. You can't even blame the tactics yesterday and say Jose didn't go for it. The players didn't perform, yet again.

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06 Nov 2017 14:13:20
Mctominay and martial could have started ahead of Herrera and mkhi. We don't have a good lb thus the back 3, not targeting a lb in summer was mourinho's fault. Liverpool and yesterday's games proved exactly why morata would have been a better signing for mourinho's tactics than lukaku, again mourinho's fault. The fact that until we are losing and have 30-35 mins left rash and martial can't play together, mourinho's fault.

You talk tactics and having a go what did we create that any credit should be given to mourinho for it. They had rudiger a player who shits his bed every time a quick tricky player has a go at him, martial was not even allowed to have a go at him, poor tactics again mourinho's fault.

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06 Nov 2017 14:18:42
Why can't you blame the tactics? Thought conte got it right yesterday, managed to get 4 players in cm yesterday, isolated the front 2 and controlled the game through midfield .
United had a go (Which everyone has gone on about ) and looked all over the place played right in to Chelsea hands .
We got our tactics right against spurs and wrong against Chelsea, really poor team performance yesterday .

What happened to the " I don't care if we get beat as long as we have a go "attitude .

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06 Nov 2017 14:52:23
That's simply not my attitude jred. I want a win. A dire borefest 1-0 does nicely for me. Did Jose tie Martial's legs with a shoe lace before putting him on? You got to blame the players where its due. They were hopeless. By tactics i meant he did what the fans were crying for and not what he wanted to do.

But as i said earlier, people don't like Jose and will simply put everything at his doorstep. Moyes obviously is right there at the top of that haters list.

Lukaku and Mkhi were world beaters before the international break and now signing him was Jose's fault. People like you wait for us to lose so that you can say i told you so. Losers.

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06 Nov 2017 17:03:53
Shan i and xfiles were wondering during live match chat why martial was playing on the right rather than left and unless much like mkhi and hererra picking themselves martial just decided he fancied playing on right yesterday mourinho might have something to do with it too.

Also go back and see my match chat view of mkhi you will find i never considered him good enough let alone world beater, lukaku is a decent player but he needs chances put on a plate for him to score, not to mention he gets easily bullied in the air, lacks good first touch and hold up skills all of which are essential skills for a mourinho striker with his 10 men behind the ball approach from time to time. Just compare drogba, milito and benzema you will find they have more in common with morata than they do with lukaku, its not hate its facts, sadly mourinho fanboys don't like anyone criticizing their Great Manager.

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06 Nov 2017 04:30:16
World class full backs a world class winger a world class midfield get rid of Fellaini an Herrera once these problems r solved we will Challenge if we can building slow and steady wewill dominate city will never understand that and believe in quick success2 years we will dominate again mourinho will give us the football we know once he builds a team trustworthy to deliver till then he will get us results, we area outtwitness mourinhos finestyearst.

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06 Nov 2017 05:32:28
Never understood this obsession of getting rid of fellaini. He is such a unique player in his own way and creates so many problems for teams and would like to see him signed to an extension. He might not be a silky Modric type player but very very effective at opening up opportunities for the strikers and rash and Martial and does a lot more damage than mick who is at the moment very very poor.

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06 Nov 2017 06:21:14
X files I understand what your saying but could you see real madrid, barcelona, bayern, juventus, psg, man city or spurs having a player like fellaini. Good at what he doe's but not what a top team should need.

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06 Nov 2017 08:16:48
Last season Herrera was going to be futures captain look at him now shocking we were also told lukaku doesn't turn up in bid games he is a joke 90 million.

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06 Nov 2017 04:03:58
Mourinho will get it right and stay a long time he wants the recognition and will overcome the challenges of short term success.

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06 Nov 2017 05:03:56
Conte has spent much less than mourinho in last 2 seasons, nor has conte bought a 35 yr old striker. So who exactly is the guy chasing short term success.

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