Manchester United Banter Archive October 06 2013

 

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06 Oct 2013 23:04:29
If you're a glass half full type of person then we're only 6 points of the top of the table, if you're a glass half empty person then we're only 3 points above the relegation zone.

I agree with those who want to give Zaha a chance - he needs to share right wing with Nani. Valencia should be Rafael's back up. Jones, Smalling and Evans need to be the core of the central defense. If they can't step up then we need to purchase someone.

It remains to be seen whether Fellaini will amount to anything or whether he will be one of a number of purchases by United that fail to address the central midfield creativity issues. While still a great motivator and powerful force, SAF's last few years have been marked by extreme irascibility and stubbornness which resulted in a seeming inability to retain young talent (Pogba, Morrison, Fryers) or to attract them. I don't think he was comfortable with the new order either in terms of player power or tactical developments, and his retirement was probably overdue.

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Very good post.

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Agree with most, apart from I don't think Fellaini was ever purchased to help with CM creativity

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06 Oct 2013 22:36:51
Just a question. Did Fergie have enough sense to put a buy back clause or first option on Ravel Morrisson? The guy is coming good after all his early problems. Bad enough to lose Pogba but Ravel as well.

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06 Oct 2013 22:38:30
Just a suggestion, What does everybody think of playing Valencia at right back and Rafael on the wing? Valencias inability to take players on is frustrating while Rafael like nothing better.

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No. What did we buy zaha for in that case? Put him in. He'll be amazing.

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06 Oct 2013 22:07:01
I read Gary Neville's article today and it is actually very apt when considering our performances and in particular the direction we seem to be going in.

Gary Nev highlighted the way forward as the pressing game with high energy closing down high up the pitch to win the ball back as quickly as possible. He also highlighted the back four have to push up to condense play.

So now I see our back four dropping deeper and the pace of our game slowing. There were some signs at the beginning of the season that we may close down higher but that has dropped off. There have been many comments about our transfer activity but the question for me is how would Fellaini fit a high tempo pressing game? I have a lot of time for Neville's astute tactical analysis but when you look at us, the direction we are going in is less than clear especially with the Fellaini purchase.

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I said the exact same thing to you earlier Red Man. We need two CB's with pace who can push up, this will push the midfield up to support the attack.

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Id like to see us play 3 at the back if we were to adapt that style, maybe a 352?
Jones Vidic Smalling at the back with Fellaini, Cleverley and Kagawa in the midfield and Januazaj left mid, Nani right mid and RVP and Rooney upfront.

Only problem is, where do you play Rafael? Right mid maybe, he's better at creating than our current right mids.

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Pls read my comments. I've been saying this for over a year. It's not rocket science, all best teams are doing it.

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Nomidfield

There are a few of us who have said similar things even when SAF was manager. I highlighted this because Gary Neville is still connected with present players and is a well known United fan yet is saying the best way forward is something that appears to be at odds with the direction Moyes is taking us. Neville an England coach as well so the same thing to be said there as well. It highlights one point that I don't feel we know and that is what does Moyes envisage as our future style of play? Is it forward thinking tactically like Neville suggests or more of the same slow attempts to keep possession? Why are our back so deep?
One thing Moyes hasn't done is give us his vision of the future, good leaders do that to get buy in, but managers are not always leaders and perhaps Moyes is just a manager. Remember Mourinho at the same time has given us his vision on how he sees Chelsea playing. Leading and managing are two different things.

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A very good point red man. And that is the frustrating part. 15 games or so under moyes and we are still playing slow predictable old style football, mostly involving two average wingers and a below average midfield.
What gets me, is the lack of new ideas. We have been playing this style under saf for the past four years. Do the change of manager should have given us a new lease of life. But nothing seems to have changed.

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06 Oct 2013 20:09:55
Just been think about the rooney situation.
Basically moyes definitely knows whether rooney wants to leave or not due to their discussions. So surely if rooney wanted to leave and wasnt going to sign a new contract moyes would not play him and let him rot on the bench or get rid of him asap. So i'm justing thinking that rooney may actually stay with us cause there's is no point in playing him and building a team around him when he's going to leave in the summer. Moyes can't be that stupid especially since we have kagawa whos best position is where rooney is currently playing and has said he wants to prove that himslef to moyes.
Your thoughts?

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That would make sense with somebody in their job for a few years and everyone is happy - but a new manager coming in where 50% of supporters at least think he isn't up to the job, (a lot more now), you would do whatever you can to ensure a good start and get one of the best players to perform.

Could you imagine the grief he would be getting if we were playing like we are and Rooney is on the bench, it's bad enough with Zaha and Kagawa, but somebody like Rooney would be suicide by Moyes?

So I think Moyes is putting short term success ahead of long term planning, and he is wise to do so, because Rooney performing is one of the only things that is good about this season so far.

I'll be looking forward to when Moyes can start with a clean slate next summer.

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Are we building a team around Rooney? News to me.

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Who said we are building a team around rooney. I think the reality is he was told to get his head down and play as we are not selling him to chelsea.

I think the fact that no overseas bid came in was a surprise for the club and the player. If you look at the teams that he would go to, they don't necessarily need a striker or he is not their preffered choice i.e psg, barca Neymar, messi), monaco(went for falcao), Rm(suarez is the guy they want).

It will be interesting to see what happens come this summer and maybe the player and the club will come to an agreement. If there is no deal by the summer expect him to be sold.

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06 Oct 2013 19:07:28
So Pogba has said that the nail in the coffin was when Rafael & Park played in midfield against Blackburn. I think this was one of SAFs biggest mistakes. Really let a gem go! Let's just hope Moyes sorts out Januzaj quick!

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I was saying the same thing just last night about that being Fergie's biggest clanger. I didn't know Pogba had spoken about it.

Its obvious Januzaj is ready for the first team right now. The only problem is after a debut like that we have to be careful not to expect him to be the savior of Manchester Utd.

I understand his preferred/best position is on the right wing.Is Moyes playing him out of position because he can handle it and we're so poor on the left or is this Moyes depoying him as an inverted winger?

Considering we have Januzaj now ready, plus Powell and Lingaard likely to be ready for next season, that's a pretty potent trio of players coming into the squad.

Undoubtedly Moyes needs to bring in new faces but he needs to be careful not to limit these young players who are starting to look like the real deal.

Let's hope januzaj gets a run of games now 'cos he is a breath of fresh air in a stale team.

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I agree with this. We also need to integrate Zaha soon. I'd be tempted to give a run to Powell, Lingaard and Keane sooner rather than later. If they are good enough then that will alter our transfer targets. We still need to buy wisely and central midfield creativity is lacking, as is LB and Buttner isn't good enough. I think the jury is still out on Rooney, he's definitely improved this season but whether his form lasts and whether he wants to stay is still unresolved.

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We need to manage this lad and not over play him, I was at ot when a young lad called macheda produced a wonder goal to win us an important game, he's now on loan at doncaster

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John - The reason Macheda didn't work out was nothing to do with being over played. It was fairly obvious that his attitude wasn't what it should've been and he believed he had already arrived. I don't see that happening with Januzaj. The lad is 18 not 16. Both Rooney and Ronaldo were regulars at 18 and I don't think anyone would say they were over played.

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The problem is tk is that moyes is swimming in mud at the moment and might see adnan as his great escape and think he can turn our season around single handed.he scored 2 good goals and played ok, but he also lost possesion a few times trying to do too much, we will get punished against better teams doing that.he is a massive potential talent but he needs to learn certain things I don't expect to see him start most games.im also worried that his agent is calling the shots and already touting him around europes elite, if barca come calling what will he do? he certainly looks as though he is made for the top.

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06 Oct 2013 18:08:11
Spurs beaten 3.0 at home. Say no more. Arsenal very lucky to get a draw. It took a wicked deflection, WBA should have had a penalty and Anelka should have buried his one on one. I guess when confidence is high, the luck comes with it. I think Norwich should have seen out a 1.1 draw had they been more professional. Jose would be under some serious pressure had that happened. Fine lines and all that. City got the softest ever penalty. I suspect the true table will start to show after 12/13 games. We have to be happy going into the international break.

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I think the fact is that the gap at the top is decreasing due to the League strengthening as a whole. But the top of the League is weaker than it used to be. This was noticeable in the City vs Bayern match.

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Agree you can't look at league until after more games but I for one am not happy lol. Long way to go yet but thanks to the emergence of Januzaj picking up the, 'Open' berth for LW or left sided attacker more accurately in a 4231 we are still a few players short. Evra and Nani still first teamers just shows how we'll continue to get pasted by better teams.

And need to factor in as a minimum next year Vidic and Carrick replacements too. RVP year after for sure too.

We are off the pace in terms of the league but light years away from competing in Europe now.

Could be worse we could be Scousers lol.

I'll get behind Moyes and the Team as usual but my observation from yesterday's game was it felt like we'd just won a cup semi when in reality we struggled at times to beat relegation fodder by one goal.

5 mins gone though it was looking oh so much worse.

I wonder what impact the De Gea save will have on Moyes United career. Fine lines and all that.

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Have to be happy! Yes happy with 9th place! Having been beaten3 times. And a 27.5 million donkey. You are easily pleased.

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Exactly, I wouldn't be putting my money on any results in the near future, games are so hit and miss across the board. The start whilst bad, isn't being capitalised on fortunately.

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Yes Syd and by halftime Sunderland could have been home and dry! saved by a 18 yrs old who had a great debut.
It's not looking good.

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Yeah, 9th place in the league, exact same points and goal difference as Aston Villa, two of our victories were against the bottom two teams in the league, we have secured a grand total of 1 point from teams currently in the top half of the table, and we have scored 1 whole goal against teams currently in the top 10. We should be ecstatic heading into the international break.

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Danny, you just wrote exactly what I have been thinking, but couldn't bring myself to write. Fair play mate.

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Syd

You are the eternal optimist LOL. Our next game will go a long way to tell us where we are. Other teams having clangers does help keeping the gap respectful but we still need to go out and win games.

I said a long time ago 80 points wins the league and 72 for a champions league place.

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I am not sure how we can be happy, perhaps a little relieved because it could have been worse and we managed to beat the bottom placed team who have been in disarray. Lose yesterday and it would have been hard to say it wasn't a crisis.
We won a game we could easily have lost but it remains to be seen whether we have turned a corner. We might have done but if happy is realising we could have been in an even worse position than we are and that we have a young player with potential as long as we can keep him, and that I forget the pathetic transfer window then I am almost happy.

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Yeah. Bloody delighted with the points, performances, transfers, tactics, defending, midfield, attacking. NOT!!
why are people so easily pleased?!!

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She*p, sorry I was meant to put "happier", not happy. I don't think any MU fan is happy.

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06 Oct 2013 18:08:00
Could have morrison and pogba.
. We have cleverly and fellaini

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I'd of loved Pogba to have been here still. But Morrison is a time bomb and to be honest we have the upgrade of him in Januzaj.

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"I said to Ferguson: 'play me, and I will show you if I'm ready or not', " said Pogba.

"Against Blackburn, on December 31, 2011, I was on the bench. Ferguson puts Rafael in midfield with Ji Sung Park. Then I gave up. I was really bummed.

"I joined Juve to silence people who have criticised me, who did not believe in me and said that I would fail."
Did seem a strange call at the time

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We couldn't have had Pogba. Don't people listen to the editor on here. Pogba was always going to leave MU.

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True. Could throw Pique into that argument too but we are where we are. On balance I think Fergie is allowed one or two mistakes don't you?

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Syd

May be Pogba had already decided his future. But it will be foolish to deny that SAF playing Rafael and Park in midfield would have helped young Paul change his stand. I think its time we admit and live with the fact that SAF made a few howlers. Sadly most of them were not innocent errors, there were fuelled by his larger than life ego. Poor call IMO

Deep.

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Halesini, I think Fergie made more than one or two mistakes and some quite baffling decisions at times.

His policy of buying players who were good in one position and playing them in another position was just weird. Rafael and Park in midfield against Blackburn was just the ultimate manifestation of it and there were bigger consequences than just losing the game.

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Sydney you lie

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So do u KLOOT

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KLOOT, for someone who always preaches about the ethos and spirit of Utd, your defence of someone who was bringing the club into disrepute with his 'gangsta' behaviour, is a little inconsistent to say the least.

StevieK

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Andrew B,
The point is of course Fergie made mistakes. I'm not blind AND I remember Ralph Milne FFS!

But then I remember going from being piss poor and occasional good cup runs to league dominance for TWENTY YEARS.

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06 Oct 2013 17:29:14
So guys, I finally got to support united away from home at a live match! The support the fans gave the players was amazing, so the question is why can't we have this at old Trafford? Now on to Adnan, what a performance! What a talent, I hope he signs a new contract because here he can go on and become anything he wants to be, he is that good! A world class talent who I've no doubts will reach the heights! His first goal was an outstanding finish, seeing it on motd you see he actually had little of the goal to aim at! The second goal, all I can say is wow! If Lionel Messi or Gareth Bale score that it would be talked about all year, that's how good it was. All in all it was a great result and personally for me absolutely loved being in the away end!

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It was a great performance, but does anybody else think that he looks miserable? Almost like he did what he needed to but didn't enjoy doing it for Moyes/Utd, when he came off especially.

Hopefully reading too much into it, but he may have already made up his mind that his future isn't at Utd and wants to perform to get a better deal wherever he ends up, maybe Italy.

His parents are Kosovans, Italy is right next door to that part of the world and maybe he has been advised that you don't owe Utd anything and they weren't prepared to offer you what you want go to somewhere you are valued (when not in crisis)? Yes the club value him now, but that is only because other players are performing so badly, if Valencia and Young were doing well he would be nowhere near the first team and his adviser will know that.

I hope that we haven't burnt our bridges with him, but if I was his agent I would be holding us to ransom and not sign anything until all the offers come flooding in during the Winter.

I don't know what the guy is like though, I'm sure some people will know his character/love for the club, etc. Hopefully he feels gratitude for the chance he has been given at our club, but who knows.

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I think he expects that sort of performance from himself. He will have been disappointed to go off, however when you saw him on the bench he was laughing and smiling. He's a young lad with a quickly expiring contract so that will be playing on his mind too I'm sure.

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Yeah probably nothing - obviously wants to look professional as well when playing. Serious is good.

I love how he wants the ball and will turn with it, we have been lacking that for so long from the wings.

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He was smiling and laughing on the bench and after the game he was chatting with teammates. If we don't sign him then we will be the biggest laughing stocks in the football world. Pay the lad what he's worth, and hurry up about it. Overpay him if we have to, I don't see other top teams losing their best youth players to other teams. We decided to go after young players to develop them but not for other teams. Since when did we become a feeder club.

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06 Oct 2013 17:28:06
Whats with all the love for Cleverley today? I admire the fact that he has come through the ranks. And Shappy made a fair point that Clevs is just trying to be the best that he can be. But he will never be any more than a squad player, which to be fair is an important role in modern football. But unless he improves hugely in a short space of time, he will never be good enough to be a key man in our midfield. I know he had a bad injury when young, which meant he missed an important year in his development.But he is 24 now and I just don't see where he fits in for us. If he becomes a regular in our starting line-up, then Manchester United have seriously lowered their standards. The self styled TC carries all the midfield authority of Officer Dibble.

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Sorry guys didn't mean to start a new thread, it was meant to be a reply the the earlier one on the same topic.

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06 Oct 2013 17:54:54
Its not a "love in" its a reasoned disscussion on what Cleverley actually offers us.

He is a very good squad player who may develop further. But it is the poor tactics and lack of quality around him that holds him back and exposes his weaknesses.

I'm not saying Cleverley is the answer to our midfield problems far from it in fact. But he will be a vital cog if we are to get back to winnibg titles. But he is not the problem with our midfield as most seem to try and lay at his feet every week.

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Yeah I agree with what you say really Shappy, amd I am by no means a Cleverley "hater". I just feel that with the way we are playing now, and for that matter the last 3 or 4 years, we as a club seem to have lowered our expectations of our players. There are too many excuses and "reasons", not just for Cleverley but for the team as a whole. As I have said numerous times before, I don't blame our problems on David Moyes. There have been too many unaccptable performances from our players this season, and they have let the new manager down badly. Our squad is not great, but it is capable of far better than we have seen so far. The challenge of winning titles is getting harder every season, not just because of the money being thrown about by City and Chelsea but beacause there are more teams than ever who will take points off the top side. The likes of Swansea, Everton, Liverpool and several others, along may not win he league but they will have more of a say than prevoulsly.
I just think that, TC aside, if we are to return to where we belong we must set our sights higher than we currently do for our players. Not Cleverleys fault I agree, but we need better players than him if we are to challenge the best.

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The thing cleverly has got going for him is that he never moans when dropped or played out of position when he was at wigan he played very well further up the pitch and they spoke highly of him its only since he came back to united he seemed to have gone backwards the other thing is he runs his heart out which can not be said about a lot of players with the predicament we are in at the moment

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06 Oct 2013 17:21:15
Well, I was right, we nicked a 1-2 victory with their goal being something from, seemingly, nothing.

Pleased to be back in the win column, but if that's the best we can serve up against supposedly the worst team in the league, the rot has not stopped.

De Gea made a stunning save at 1-0, Jones improved but with Vidic looking slower, and getting older, knowing that Jones/Smalling/Evans will soon be our only CBs worries me.

Cleverly did alright, he's a useful squad player. Carrick will need replacing soon, IMO.

Januzaj was immense, that's the sort of spark we've been missing. RVP's lack of form is worrying, too.

Something I've been thinking about, is that in the summer, we could feasibly lose a good few first-teamers.

Rio - must be retiring, surely.
Rooney - he'll go this time.
RVP - something tells me he's going to ask to leave after this season, just a hunch.
Giggs - retiring.
Young - if we have any sense.
Nani - still isn't justifying his hype.
Anderson - must be on his last chance.

That's a hell of a lot of players to potentially replace, especially with stingey owners like ours and our shocking behaviour in the transfer market.

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Yeah i'd add to that list:

Vidic - one last payday, slower Spanish game
Valencia - not happy, not creative anymore
Zaha - Moyes mustn't rate him at all
Kagawa - had enough of waiting
Buttner - We will sign a better left back and he wants first team footy
Hernandez - Not happy and needs a fresh start at Athletico.

Half the squad, massive overhaul. I think Anderson will stay and will be class for us in time - I know he has had a lot but he hasn't had a good run in the team.

RVP should stay if Rooney goes, if he doesn't then RVP will be off.

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I don't think we will be in for such big a change as you two have both said. But there will be changes.

Firstly Rio & Giggs will go, either both retire or Rio will try to do a Beckham. Young has to go, he cheats and he's useless and I think Moyes has figured that out. Rooney I think will get a contract in the new year, probably in January and will he hailed as the most important signing we could of had. RVP has said he is happy so I have no worries about him, he just hasn't got into his stride yet.

As well as Rio & Giggs, Buttner has to go because he hasn't impressed and to be honest I don't honestly know why we ever signed him. Nani, Valencia & Zaha will all stay and we will add another winger - probably Konoplyanka. Januzaj will sign a new deal but as for Kagawa I really don't know.

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McSween. Do u honestly think Anderson will do it for us?

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Fresh - I hope you're right about Konoplyanka. He would be quality on the left with Januzaj and him interchanging we would dominate the ball and RVP would score loads.

If Rooney signs I'll be surprised, but Moyes is firmly on brown nose duty with him (I suppose he has to be considering the start we have had), so maybe he will sign in the winter and it can all be put to bed for once. If he does I don't expect RVP to hang around though, there is some serious one-upmanship going on there and it's counter productive.

I think Kagawa is out of there and couldn't blame him - he was only signed for the Asian PR market yet he offers so much more, what a waste.

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Nomidfield.

I honestly do mate, he opens up so much for us when he plays. He plays in centre mid so he is going to give the ball at times the way he takes the game to the opposition. Obviously he is by no means the finished article, but within a 5-6 games playing he will be the class we are crying out for. We play so defensively at the minute, he adds energy/dynamism to the midfield and will get full match fitness quickly. He also gets into the box freeing up space for our strikers.

Next time he plays just watch how much space he creates for our other players, not necessarily how great he is with the ball yet. The fact that we are rubbish at the back isn't his fault, but obviously when the ball is given away we tend to get punished so it stands out more when he plays as that isn't his game.

If we can sort out our holding midfielder (Carrick is too deep) and back four he will be brilliant for us.

Our defensive weakness is leading to our midfield having to be defensive minded and the whole team suffers as a result.

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My worry about him is his fitness. He never seems to last more than an hour.
Also, he likes running with the ball, while most of the top teams pass the ball quickly and accurately to create the space.
Also, his goal record is abysmal. If we're going to compare him to the greats, ie Fabregas modric, then I don't think he's in the same league.

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Not yet of course, but look at the amount of games he has played compared to those two. His injuries have been ridiculous and Fergie rotated him too much when fit.

If he gets a run of games and isn't dropped for 5 games every time he gives the ball away he will be a brilliant asset.

He is made the scape goat far too easily. The first half against WBA, Anderson & Kagawa were our two best players and they were the first two subbed - they were the only ones willing to take the game to them, so would give the ball away as they aren't passing sideways or backwards all the time.

His energy is in question over 90 mins, but who cares, get him match fit and sub him until that point, 60-70 mins is usual sub time anyway.

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06 Oct 2013 17:02:59
Raph

I agree with your formation I do think a 3 4 1 2 would be good for us with Evans vidic and jones at the back.id like a top cm player with cleverly and either kagawa. Januzi Rooney playing behind van persie and Hernandez . Then you could have Zaha felani smalling lingard Fabio Rafael and another striker and Powell on bench. I think Powell will be world class given an opportunity
Then if the game isn't going your way then you could change to play a different formation.
Maybe others don't agree with this?
What would be your formation and line up?
I still think Rooney would be good as a cm in a 5 man midfield. If he stays next year.

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Worth a try. But Powell will not be world class.

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06 Oct 2013 16:45:52
Mcsween I agree football wasn't pretty at times last season but we still won the league yes we still needed 4 players especially cm x2 and cd and lb and in my opinion under saf we would be challenging for a top 3 position at least. David Moyes had a chance to strengthen like everyone else but it's clear he only had two players in mind and we got one of them the other potential targets were only a smokescreen .to try to get fans onside.thats my opinion. We can all blame Woodward but moyes is as much to blame. To give Nani a new 5 year contract is ludicrous . Wats your opinion on Nani getting that long contract? I also think Rooney still wants to leave, which although he has been one of our best players this season I wouldn't be adverse to him going as for me Romney is more of an attacking midfielder than a second striker bit like scholes was for us in the past although scholes was world class, and in my opinion Rooney is not although a good player.id rather see kagawa given a chance behind RVP and Hernandez

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You are the most boring and negative poster I ever read and although a banter site you seem to use it to annoy most readers
Did you ever watch United in the widerness years I would suggest not because believe me you would have changed clubs by now
ARB

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Draig - I think giving Nani a 5 year deal is farcical. Should have been 3 max so we can sell him in the summer for good value, 5 years reeks of desperation and is one of the most undeserved contracts in the history of the game.

Rooney definitely wants out, he has just agreed to keep quiet and get on with his football. His recent performance was lacking in quality, which reminded me very much of the vast majority of his performances last season. Work rate was there though, so everyone is allowed an off game. But I don't want us to sacrifice Kagawa for the sake of keep Rooney happy. He may have looked sharp, but his goals have been freekicks (mostly), Baines could have done that for us and more. RVP isn't the same now Rooney is getting all the ball and praise, you can tell they don't click and we are putting all of our eggs in the wrong basket by making him captain etc, he will be gone in the summer and should be for the way he has treated our club.

I want to see Kagawa behind RVP, maybe even with Rooney behind as a trident of death!

We aren't far off the top despite our rubbish displays, watching Arsenal, Chelsea etc it looks like everyone can lose points to anyone this season so it's going to be a case of whoever clicks into gear first will win it, we still have a chance despite being appalling to watch.

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06 Oct 2013 15:43:03
There is a thread further down but I feel it better to post a new one as its getting abit far down the page.

Tom Cleverley isn't the answer to our midfield but that doesn't mean he isn't Manchester United quality. I hate it when people say that.

Cleverley is a vital player in the future success of our club, and i'll explain why.

Cast your minds back to the days of Scholes and Keane, and suddenly the hole in our midfield seems huge when you consider what riches we had.

Of course the greatest moment for the club during their time at the club has to be the winning the champions league back in 99.

Keane is remembered and rightly so for his amazing performance against Juve in the semi final, but Keane didn't play in the final due to suspension. In his place the unassuming Nicky Butt played.

This is a lad who was a talented lad, but when up against the talents of Keane and Scholes was always going to come of second best. Yet on that night in the New Camp he played his heart out and helped the team restrict Bayern to just a single goal which made the last minute come back possible.

Fast forward ten years to 2009 and the champions league final against Barcelona. And the memories aren't so rosy. And when the disection of that night takes place the missing Darren Fletcher through suspension was blamed as a key factor for the loss.

Now Darren Fletcher wasn't the most talented but his work rate both on and off the ball were key missing factors in our performance that night.

Now Fletcher and Butt have very similar qualities, but they also had a similar standing within the team in the fact that they weren't considered world class but valued sqaud members.

Now Fletcher and Cleverley have something in common, neither are/were deemed good enough at the age of 23/24 yet a few years later and the loss in a major final is blamed on Fletcher absence. So what happened in that time?

Simple, Fletcher stepped up and the fans started to appreciate his quailties.

In modern football possession is king, and losing possession is tantamount to treason.

Both Butt and Fletcher were the much derived "water carriers", players who didn't win you games by themselves but did the dirty work which enabled the world class players time and space on the ball to win you those games.

Cleverley is a more modern styled water carrier, he quietly goes about his work, putting tackles in and making interceptions while keeping possession and moving the ball about the pitch. Yes a lot of his passes are sideways or backwards but you can only pass to the options available.

Cleverley's only problem is the lack of a world class midfield partner for him to play with. If he is the water carrier then who is he carrying the water for?

He seems to get blamed for the managers not signing an adequate midfielder for our club. That isn't his fault and he shouldn't have to bare the fans rath for his managers failings.

We need players like Cleverley at our club, players who are happy to drift in and out of the team as needed, hard working team players playing for the club rather than their own ambition.

Yes we need a couple of new midfielders, but that isn't the fault of Cleverley. Maybe we should appreciate the work he puts in for our club. Because just like Butt and Fletcher with these type of players you don't tend to realise their importance until they are gone.

We need four different types of midfielders at the club, one defensive who can shield the back four and offer a more physical edge, one who is a water carrier who will work for the better good of the team, one who can drive at the opposition and force the issue and one who is creative and can make things happen with footballing intelligence.

Now we have Fellaini who is a physical defensive player, Cleverley is our water carrier.

We don't have a player who drives at the opposition, a true box to box player. We need one.

Carrick has been our creative brain, he is the one who plays the passes that opens up teams. He is a deeplying playmaker. But the issue is that in modern football these type playmaker has slowly been phased out for a more mobile creative pressence. So with Carrick being 32 and our need to move toward a more modern type playmaker then this is a position we need another player for.

So we need a box to box player and a modern playmaker. But again this isn't Cleverleys fault and its about time we stopped blaming him for it.

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Couldn't agree more Shappy.

I genuinely think Anderson is the Box-to-Box player we need in the short term, he opens up so much space when he plays. Yes he gives the ball away, but how many minutes does he get - we keep saying give people time, he needs a run of games and fingers crossed no injuries? When he plays he makes things happen both directly and indirectly and that is why Juanjuz is so exciting on the wing.

Kagawa should be our creative advanced player, Mata/Oscar/Hazard etc, but he is not being used. The deep lying playmaker/battler style player could be Schweinsteiger - £35mil I reckon we could get him as it solves a few problems for Bayern with their rotation.

Good post though Shappy.

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Why does Cleverly want to be the water carrier, as you like to put it? You are right that we don't have a World Class CM partner, but shouldn't that be an added incentive to become that World Class midfielder that we need? You shouldn't stop your progress just cause there is no one challenging you for your position in the team.
Cleverly is not worthy to be mentioned in the same breath as Nicky Butt, as Butt was in his own right a fantastic midfielder, as he excelled at his qualities. Cleverly on the other hand doesn't even know what his qualities are. Does he want to be an enforcer, playmaker, box to box, attack minded? He seems to be content in passing the ball and keeping his percentages high, rather than contributing and taking the risks to change the games!
Sadly, Cleverly will only be a mid table player, then will be eventually found out as not being very good. Mr O'shea comes to mind!
Cleverly is surplus to requirements, he doesn't want to improve or stamp his position down. Phil Jones offers more in that role as, he has the ability to excel at the enforcer role. Even Anderson knows his role is to create, although his days are numbered.
I fully support any United player, but to me Cleverly is not a United player, but a man stopping the progress of many talented players in the youth set up. Is Cleverly not an attacking left winger, we saw that an 18 year old yesterday, just needed one opportunity to show us the distance of class between a game changer and Tom Cleverly!

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Shappy agree 100% Cleverley as worked hard come through the youth system and now established himself as a Utd first team player and England international. let's give him some credit and support

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Aaallj5, you do realise that Cleverley has been playing out of position ever since he broke into the team don't you? I think if people knew that he wasn't a central midfielder then they would appreciate what he has done a little more.

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Dear mr shappy
ngiak is speechless
just one word
brilliant
gan

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Shappy

Butt and Fletcher had a mean streak to them and while not the world class midfielders in terms of passing they were underrated I say.

I have been watching cleverly for 2 years now and still can not figure out what is it that he excels at. To me he is a young pair of legs that runs around and a lot of huff and puff but no real quality in any area of the pitch.

I agree the squad needs players to come in and do a job but it still does not change the frustration level of watching him and when we are crying out for someone to step up when under pressure, he does not do anything for me and does not want the responsibility either.

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06 Oct 2013 17:00:44
Aaallj5, Dider Deschamps was one of the few recognised world class "water carriers".

It is a role within itself. To disregard a player for having the fortitude to realise that maybe his best position/role within a team is abit daft to behonest. I know everyone as a kid wants to be the star and have the adulation that comes with it, but when you grow up you need to realise your ability potential and your limitations.

Cleverley is working hard to become the best player he can, but sometimes that means he has to look at himself and realise what he can and can't do. Would you want him to work hard at trying to be a centre back? or a striker? of course not as you realise that those are positions that he won't excel in. He is a midfielder, and one who hasn't got the vision to be a great playmaker nor the physical qualities to be a strong destroyer. So as he hasn't got the natural qualities of either Keane or Scholes then maybe he is best looking toward Nicky Butt for inspiration.

He is going to work hard to be the best player he can be with the qualities he has. We need to realise the kind of player he is and how to best use him inorder for us and him to be successful.

If it was as simple as training to become world class at something then we would all be world class footballers rather than just supporting the team as fans.

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Shahram your frustrations are valid, but it is the lack of quality that Cleverley has to play with rather than his limitations that you should be frustrated at.

People seem to be slating him and saying that we are playing with 10 men when he is on the pitch, in which case let's not play him and see what happens when we really do play with 10 men.

It is not his fault that he is the best player we have to play alongside an ageing Carrick.

His work rate is an asset, he moves and keeps possession of the ball.

We could play Anderson instead but his lower work rate and his losing of possession means we get over run even more in midfield.

Cleverley has as much a mean streak as Butt and Fletcher. Like I said players like this get truely appreciated only after they are gone. Cleverley is at least equal to Fletcher when Fletcher was 24 and only alittle away from Butt at the same age imo. The difference is both Butt and Fletcher had much better players to play with and thus had less expectancy on their shoulders.

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Butt was a better player than both Fletcher and cleverly.
Cleverly is not a bad player but why do people feel the need to make excuses for him.
For me he is an above average player no more but the harsh fact is when you are playing for a team like United expectations are higher.
is cleverly not playing great because of his cm partners or because he is played out of position or because he is injured or any other excusse imo no .
It's simply a case of as well as his talent merits at this level average.
If we had bought Allen or Leon brittan I wouldn't expect them to be world beaters for example.
In short I think cleverly is playing as well as he can.

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Cleverley puts his foot in and wins a lot of 50/50's he also picks up a lot of loose balls if you watch him carefully he always shuts off danger and gets a touch to stunt the opposition. He just isn't good in the air and as we have all agreed on doesn't offer much creatively. I think he is let down by us not having a decent left winger and Carrick's slowness, so he closes down and nobody supports.

Sydney insists he is playing out of position so I'm prepared to wait and see.

Several years ago I was one of those people screaming for Fletcher to be sold, later on in his career he was vital as Shappy says. Cleverly is still young and developing, Lampard style player without the goals at the moment.

To be fair when Strikers go to left wing we praise them for doing ok out of position, should be no different for an attacking midfielder having to sacrifice himself and short term "reputation" for the good of the team.

I say give him and Anderson more of a chance with young dynamic wingers and we will be a lot more entertaining and effective.

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So we need a box to box player and a modern playmaker
Shappy

Couldn't agree more, we need more pace more power and more technique.
We need a more modern approach in midfield more movement and to actually do something with possession.

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I'd add to that - Cleverly is a far better player with the ball than Keane, Fletcher, Butt, Robson - he is obviously a bit off some of those and miles off others in terms of all round game, but he needs time to develop and he isn't doing too much wrong - just nothing going on around him so he can't create as much as he could given the right pedigree around him.

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Jred, so Strootman and Thiago wouldn't have looked so bad now in hindsight eh? Strootman a box2box midfielder, can stick in a foot, score goals and Thiago a modern playmaker. I think SAF had it spot on with his targets. Garay, Baines, Strootman, Thiago & Di Maria. Lew if Rooney was sold. I think SAF and the scouts done their homework.

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Yes Sydney, I am fully aware that Cleverly is being played out of position, but let's not hide the facts, that Cleverly does not play in his preferred position, because he is not good enough to play there for Manchester United.
It is extremely disappointing that a club like Manchester United have to play a player out of position due to the lack of options.

Shappy, Ultimately Cleverly is not even worthy of the role water carrier. To do that “pivotal” role, you have to be serving a purpose to the team, something Cleverly fails to do.
Young Tom, is more content to mimic Carrick than offer his own qualities. He does not know what he wants to do, he doesn't want to attack or create and he doesn't want to enforce. He is content with picking up the ball with his back to goal and passing it the same way he received it.
It doesn't matter whether he wants to play, and excel at centre back or striker, currently he is playing out of position and is failing at it. To give him the water carrier role would be way out of his reach. I also fail to see the water carrier role in any team, it is like saying the sub that comes on in the 92nd minute is playing the time waster role, he still contributes to the game as well doesn't he?
Didier Deschamps was fantastic at breaking up play and laying on the ball to players that could do something with it, not passing back to his keeper or centre halves. Ferdinand offers more creativity than Cleverly.
Again I cannot see the comparison to Butt and will never see it. Butt in his own right was a fantastic midfielder that would walk into this team today. Cleverly back then wouldn't be 5th choice.
A question to all, out of all the top teams in the league, would Cleverly dislodge there main CM's or even their back up centre mid pairings?

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Aaallj5, Cleverley wouldn't be first choice as CAM or left wing of course, but he would do a better job than some of the players who have played their recently. He is a better player when given a more attacking role. He is a good squad player, a player I expect to play a lot this season whether Fellaini is fit or not.

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Syd
More than one way to skin a cat, but back to the real world Carrick will play most games so you are looking for a player to play next to him strootman who I wouldn't say is a box to box player far to slow or a fallaini are not a good partnership I still think United need two creative cm for the top level.
Garay is not that good Like always you have started raving about him simply because he has been linked to the club.
Strootman is not that good far to slow .

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Aaallj5 - Kagawa isn't good enough for Utd then either, basing it on where Moyes and SAF play them? The problem is our system and plodder players, they don't suit players like Cleverly, RVP or Kagawa.

Of course Cleverly isn't world class, nobody thinks he is. He is a very good squad player who could develop into a great one if used properly. Exactly the same as Jones, aside from Jones has more potential to be World Class, but again it could be a case of not getting enough games early on in his best position.

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Aaallj5, you clearly don't understand and I think your still trying just letting your frustrations out on a young man who doesn't deserve it.

I'm not saying Cleverley should be first choice, just that he has a vital role to play as a squad player for our club if we are to be successful.

You seem to be falling into the trap that many fall into in that you expect to see a midfielder play one of two roles, either they have to be dominating the other team physically like Keane used to, or they have to be tearing them apart with their passing and vision ala Scholes.

But football have moved on from that very limited view.

In some games you will need a physical player in the middle, in other you won't.

Sometimes you'll need a player who'll run at the opposition from the middle, and in others that would leave too much space in the middle.

Sometimes you'll need to sit back in games and other times you'll need to be on the front foot.

There are many different roles that are needed thus you now need serveral different types of midfielders at your disposal in order to give you the options needed to out play your opposition.

You say all Cleverley does is mimic Carrick, that is because him and Carrick are very similar players(although Carrick has a much wider passing range, but Cleverley is quicker and more mobile). But it may have escaped your notice that Carrick is 32 and won't be around for much longer.

The biggest problem our midfield has had over the last few seasons is a lack of options. last season we had Carrick, Scholes, Cleverley and Anderson as midfielders.

Now as its been established Cleverley and Carrick have a similar skill set, neither will run at the opposition, neither will score many goals and neither physically dominate the opposition. They both pass and move the ball around in the midfield.
Scholes was 38 and had to sit deep due to not having the legs to do the running anymore.
And Anderson was typically injuried for most of the season.

So our only options all tended to sit deep, thus we could only play in one way. This is not the fault of any of the players, but the fault of the management for allowing us to have such poor options.

As I have said in modern football you want to have four different options in midfield, last season we had one well one and a half with Anderson.

Now we have signed Fellaini which brings us up to two different types of midfielders within our squad but we still are missing a true box to box midfielder and a modern playmaker. And until we get them then our options will not be great.

Cleverley will be a vital option for us in the future if we get the required players, he won't play every game but will come in when needed. He is a home grown player and as such is more likely to accept such a role. We could go out and sign such a player but as with Butt and Fletcher it has shown that we have more success with bringing this type of player through our own academy.

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Jred, I'm sorry but WHEN have I ever raved about Garay. Like I have said repeatedly, I do not know much about him. I am mentioning Garay as he was a SAF target which is the whole point of my post. I am talking about SAF's targets.

Strootman is a box2box midfielder. That's not even debatable, it's fact. Strootman himself would tell you that. He maybe a tad slow, but he is lightening compared to Fellaini. Fellaini who you said would be our Yaya Toure ;)

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Syd
Lol r u getting that desperate yaya.
He's a better than a lot give him credit for and could play the yaya role but as I have said repeatedly a partnership with Carrick will not work.
I have also been very against a fellani type player

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Shappy

I do agree better player around him will help his performance just like any other player on the pitch. I also agree compared to gigs and anderson he is a massive improvement although both can have the occasional good game.

I just do not buy into this idea that he is a advanced midfielder and being played out of position. Advanced midfielders are good dribblers and take shots and it is instinctive and can anyone honestly say he has either of those in his locker.

I think your description of him is interesting and maybe in certain games he is needed.

We talk about box to box and creative midfielders, I am not into labels but for me the most complete midfielder today in Arturo Vidal and not sure what category he is in, because he does it all assists, tackle, shooting, scores goals, passing and tough as nails for his size. Give me two of him and I would be a very happy camper :)

Finally, at the moment cleverly is very much needed as we honestly don't have much there but to play a 442 you need vidal type players in your midfield.

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06 Oct 2013 22:36:20
Life long united supporter and first time poster I've been following this sight for a few years but mr sween have to respond there is no way in any shape or form cleverly is better on the ball then Keane or Robson both were far better passers and far better goal threats then cleverly will ever be. {Ed007's Note - Welcome to the site but would you mind registering, it will take you 2 mins and we find it helps with the volume of trolling. Cheers.}

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06 Oct 2013 15:37:23
Yesterday janujaz good everybody else bad Rooney and clevs shocking imo
Even vidic had a poor game.
the gap between cm and attack is getting bigger and by the time we eventually get the ball forward the opposition have plenty behind the ball.
Carrick looks very classy on the ball but there is just no drive or tempo in the middle of the park .
Did clevs or Carrick get into the last third yesterday.
Back 4 was a bit of a concern as well, although credit to Jones who improved after an awful start.

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If you play a 442 with two strikers and two deep laying midfielders, there will be a big gap between midfield and attack. Rooney needs to drop into the hole, but I think it's clear that he doesn't want to.

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Syd
Why doesn't he want to drop in to the hole that's where he played when rvp was injured.
I think it's quite obvious moyes wants to see a rvp/Rooney partnership and after all its moyes who picks the team .
Looks like we are going to get another season of " everything's Rooney fault"
Also its quite simple you don't play 2 deep lying cm if your playing a front two.

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I don't think Rooney is to blame, I said earlier on that if he wants to play as the main striker then he has every right. I just think it's effecting our performances and we need Rooney in the hole to knit the midfield and attack. We do not have the midfield personnel to play any other way. I cannot see for the life of me why Moyes would want RvP playing alongside Rooney as it isn't working. The partnership would work better if Rooney plays behind RvP. RvP as the main striker, Rooney in the hole. Januzaj on the left, Nani/Zaha/Valencia on the right. Two of Cleverley, Fellaini & Carrick in midfield. Rooney's contract like RvP is largely incentive based. So the more goals Rooney scores, the more money he will get each week. It makes sense for him to want to play further ahead as he will score more goals. More goals equals more money. I don't think it's purely down to money, Rooney is a goalscorer and all goalscorers want to score goals.

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Syd
Lol really it gets better Rooney wants to play striker so he gets paid more and it's having a negative effect on the team due to Rooneys greed.
Does Rooney look like the selfish type of player who is only interested in scoring .
Is this the latest Rooney theory.
It's quite obvious notes fancies a rvp/Rooney partnership just because you can't understand why doesn't mean he doesn't .
I've no doubt you know better tho

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I think Rooney wants to play as a main striker whatever his reasons. You have said the same thing. I think Moyes is trying to keep both RvP and Rooney happy and it's not quite working out as there is a Rooney shaped hole between the midfield and RvP. RvP is drifting far too deep at times to get the ball and he needs to stay in and around the box. I don't think a 442 works and the proof is there for us all to see. I haven't said Rooney is being selfish and clearly stated that if Rooney wants to play as a main striker then that's his right. I just do not think it's working.

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I have stated many tines 4-4-2 isn't s modern way of playing especially at such a slow tempo as really it is wingers oriented and you need to get the ball forward quickly . The cm also need to supply and support the strikers. Ours don't.
Your new theory on Rooney tickled me though I'm sure all our tactical issues are down to Rooney wanting a goal bonus

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I think a 433 with janusaj-RVP is well worth the try with 3 midfielders behind them. it would plug a lot of holes for us and have a front 6 that is a lot more jointed.

IMO we either drop one of the winger or one of the strikers and play 3 established midfielders and use our wing backs, who at the moment are more effective when looking for width.

I pray we do not play a 442 against southampton as they will rip us to pieces with their midfield.

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Like I said I do not think Rooney wanting to play further forward is purely down to bonuses, but it must be difficult watching RvP score 30 goals a season being the main man when it used to be him. Playing further forward would increase the goal tally, so whether it's greed, fame, plain jealousy or a mixture of all it's irrelevant. My point is I think he wants to play as a main striker so Moyes is trying to keep them both happy by playing a 442. I don't know about you but I would be playing Rooney in the hole.

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06 Oct 2013 15:28:00
I think we can safely say Palace, Norwich & Sunderland are favourites to go down. Norwich had a 1.1 in the bag and gifted a win to Chelsea. What was Bassong doing? What a thin line from Jose being a zero to now being a hero. Does anyone fancy a West Ham or West brom win? Southampton are looking good.

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I can see 0-0 with the Gunners, suffering from too many of the same players having to play. West Brom may nick one late in second half when Arsenal start pushing on more.

I think Hull will go, Sunderland & Palace.

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I think it was Tetteh that cocked up for the 2nd one, tracking from their corner. Horrible.

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Come on you BAGGIES - Bosch.

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On that note the 2 penalties for the scousers and city are 2 of the softest penalties I have seen all year ad people come on to this site and talk bs when we get one after our guy has been hacked down and we get one.

In the city game the Lukaku incident was penalty the other way and the scores could have been very different had the refs not had a howler.

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MrSween, yes it was, my mistake. Tettey put it on a plate for him. He only needed to let it run out for a goal kick.

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What drives me crazy with the penalty shouts is that anywhere else on the pitch a freekick is given no questions. Players like Lukaku, Crouch, Fellaini get a real rough ride due to their stature, we saw it in the Ukraine the other night and whenever Crouch plays for England. Lukaku should have had a penalty at least yesterday.

McCarthy looks good for Everton!

The puffer has just scored, damn!

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Mr Sween
Better with the ball than kean and Robson?
Are you having a laugh keans short game was excellent he could controlled the pace and tempo of a game against any opposition never gave the ball away and dictated play.
Don't even get me started on how much Robson was better than Clevs with and with out the ball

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Jred - I mean better with the ball under pressure, he is technically better with the ball than all of the four mentioned. All of those players could dictate tempo when given time, but Cleverly is an excellent footballer with vision, he just doesn't have strength, dynamic pace, amazing stamina, tricks, aerial presence, or the good players around him. The other four players specialised in one or more of those criteria's and they certainly had better players moving in front of them.

Cleverly is average at best in all of those areas, but he is a better "baller" in the sense of keeping a game ticking - we need more than that obviously and sideways/backwards is really annoying, and I imagine that is what he will be working on. But if you had 11 Cleverlys and 11 of any of the others, you would be waiting a lot longer to see the ball against team Cleverly, than Robson, Keane, Butt or Fletcher.

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Mrsween
Most ridiculous post so far this season .
I honestly don't believe you have even seen Robson play

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Lol, Jred I have to agree.

Robson and Scholes have been the best midfielders the club has had in the last 30 years and Roy keane off course. The rest have mostly been forgettable experiments.

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06 Oct 2013 14:41:52
Ajh

You make a fair point but how can I be positive when all I see is negativity every time I see the team I love play.?
It frustrates the hell of me watching a decent team last season being destroyed before my eyes .this is why I post negative comments.
How can you get motivated by what you see us playing these days. If we all made a stance and showed our frustration then maybe Moyes might change his ways and play more positive football then we'd all be happy.
I'm so disheartened by the current manager. Rightly so we all have different opinion, and the world would be a boring place if we all had the same views.

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Draig - I love a bit of constructive criticism, but basing your point on our performances last season is ridiculous. We were awful last season, the key difference is that everybody else has gotten stronger and we have aged and weakened still further.

Old Trafford has lost it's fear factor and that was happening before SAF left. The fact he has now gone has just meant that even relegation fodder come to us expecting to give us a game now where as in previous seasons they would have rolled over and died. Not Moyes fault in anyway.

The boring footy has been here for years, people have just taken their "I LOVE SAF" goggles off now and are seeing what a lot of people have for a while.

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Good reply MrSween. As I have said many times, our current problems are not down to Moyes. He has made mistakes, no question. And his negative demeanour, and tactics, have not helped his cause. But he has been let down terribly by the players too. This is mot a great squad, but they are still capable of better than the rubbish that we have seen all too often so far this season. They have mostly performed poorly, and with car too many individual errors that have cost us goals.

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I think Moyes knew just like all of us that Utd had a problem and because it's his god damn job to know before he come on board. He's not an amateur having been a manager for so long in Everton. It's not a big club, but it's not small either. I won't say he's failed or anything, because he has a 1 or 2 seasons to prove himself and it's just too early to call for his head. Problem is he's failed on Summer transfer. He's the Manager, so it's his bloody job to make sure he gets the squad ready for the full season. Signing Nani couldn't have been more depressing for me. One more thing, don't like too much about him going out there in the public talk rubbish about the team. He should go out in the public defend the team externally, but make sure he beats the crap out of the squad in the dressing room or back at OT. What's the point going mental in front of the media.

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06 Oct 2013 14:34:10
Looks like Powell will finally get to start a game in midfield for Wigan today. Starts at 3pm!

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06 Oct 2013 14:05:41
1 general question to all,,

lets forget, who, why, when, what, how come, did this, said this, and all the past bla bla bla.

who will be in opinion of willing to re-sign both paul pogba and ravel morrison in present situation?

i am the ONE for sure.
i guess pogba's market value has got to 18-20m and 8-10m for morrison.

remember we got fellaini for 27m

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I wouldn't sign Ravel, don't think he'll ever have the right attitude to be a top top player. Pogba I would within a heart beat but I can't see him wanting to come back to us. At least we have Nick Powell.

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Pogba is far better than Fellaini.

So if we would pay £27.5m for Fellaini, then Pogba is worth £30m+.

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Why re-open a vein? lay off, its all behind us!

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If Ravel keeps up his development I would resign him.

if Pogba is willing to come back, I would go all out for him

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Definitely would not complain if we resigned Pogba.
Morrison is a good player who, if played regularly, has great potential. I do still worry about his temperament though. I also think Powell, Lingard and Januzaj are better players so I do not see any reason to bring him back.

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Byron!

i said forget ifs and buts, and give your wish. u can simply say no. they are not good enough.

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06 Oct 2013 11:35:18
Steven

I agree on cleverly. I really think he is a good player but needs to be given time and regular football as more of an attacking midfielder rather than holding which Moyes wants him to be. His confidence is low he is a young lad. Look at Ramsey at arsenal last year he was awful but this year with the right players around him to let him express himself has had a wonderful start to the season. He's playing well and scoring goals. Cleverly is the same for me. He will come good. Just be patient with him and buy a quality centre midfield to play with him.
Draig goch"""
dear mr draig goch
ngiak finally can say he agrees with you
after all your unreasonable negative posts, this is a good one
cleverley did the same thing as cattermole during the game
yet it was the Sunderland lad that got all the pundits
our domination in midfield yesterday was due to cleverley
it's a great platform to build on
our team needs an enforcer and he has the building blocks to do a better job than fellaini notwithstanding his size
as for moyes. ngiak how about showing the same faith and patience?
gan

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06 Oct 2013 11:31:46
When Sir Matt retired he was allowed to pick his successor disaster we were told that this would never happen again and United were planning for the future and picking the right man for the job. What happens they let Fergie pick his own successor. Absolute disaster. With Fergie's ego was he ever going to pick anyone who might compete or even eclipse his achievements. Maybe there after all was only one criteria for the job. Must be able to work on a shoe string budget. Keep paying Fergie a million a year and he will never criticise the owners. Ah the damage one race horse can do.

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Ahhh the complete lack of respect u show our greatest ever manager, I mill a year couldn't make u happy

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Chris 75 questions were given to Sir Alex about his transfer dealings and money that couldn't be accounted for. As soon as he received them he dropped the claim on the race horse. The tv made a programme about his dodgy deals with his son and refused to back down even when he used the club to try and black mail them. I suggest you look past the trophies and you may not like what you see. I was supporting United a long time before Fergie and I will be supporting them a long time afterwards. As a man manager he was without competition but as a man he leaves a lot to be desired but maybe I am privy to a little bit more information about him from within the club than most. I take nothing away from what he achieved. I just think you shouldn't be blind to reality though

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Kloot what's your insider information?

I see Fergie for what he was, a very highly paid employee.

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Im with kloot on this one. Fergie was the best man manager. But his tactics were questionable and his transfer dealings were not as white as people make out.
We have a board and they should have been asked on fergusson successor.

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06 Oct 2013 11:27:28
A woeful performance against the bottom team rescued by a wonder strike from a teenager. Looking at United in the first half I was trying to see some kind of plan that Moyes had. But it is quite obvious he hasn't got a clue. As for Rooney how he stayed on the pitch is unbelievable he gave the ball away more than any other player on the United side but Moyes sat there like some sea horse with a thyroid problem doing nothing. Kagawa must just be sat there thinking its never going to happen for me at this club. I am about creativity and he wants hard workers. The more I see chris Smalling the more my heart goes out to the lad because I think he knows that he is not up to United standard (Ironic I know giving this season performances) but he looks so nervous whenever he is on the ball. Once again yesterday we get into the lead and Moyes takes off the attacking Nani and puts on the defensive Tony V. I agree with everyone who says its not the performance its the points that matter at this stage but please god somebody tell me what Moyes is trying to do because he seems bloody clueless. One last thing unbelievable support for the boys yesterday. The team may be letting the shirts down but the support was still the best.

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So now Smalling is in your sights? Unbelievable. Hey Kloot, I know where a couple MU youth products live, shall we go and toilet paper their houses? You have one or two favourites, the rest of the young MU players trying to make their way in the team get chucked to the scrap heap. This comes from a man who cannot stop talking about Sir Matt, yet he would personally call you a disgrace Kloot.

Shameful.

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Yep your our savoir KLOOT as always mate. Its all about KLOOT, god u really do my head in! Your so egotistical and up ure own ass.
KLOOT the pide piper!

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LFC fan here in peace. Personally I thought United looked a lot better yesterday, and they fought for every ball. The young lad looks a real gem and reminded me of a young Giggs. Very calm on the ball, and real talent. I still don't think Moyes is up to it but as a LFC supporter its not a big issue for me. You deserved your win yesterday and had two outstanding young players on the pitch, I thought Wellbeck was class and overall United looked a little better than they have been lately

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Haha Chris the Redman, so true. Kloot it really does seem your so blinded by whatever reason, that you just need something to hate about United. Whether it's cleverly, who had a good game yesterday, so no wonder you havnt mentioned him today, or now Chris smalling whose started playing well but all of a sudden looks out of his depth? You make no sense at all! I bet you were just loving it when we only signed Fellaini, as that would have given you a whole six months worth of moaning! Whatever will it be next?

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06 Oct 2013 11:20:34
Anybody think that all our problems areas can be solved with what we've got,

Vidic and rio are looking past it but we have jones Evans and smalling, 3 good cbs with bags of potential not to mention keane.

Nani young and val haven't bee the most effective the last few years but just look what we have with januzaj not to forget zaha whom should be given more of a chance aswell

Mid, carrick will need replacing soon but is it not possible Powell is that replacement, really excelling at Wigan, and people say we need another more creative mid well what about lingard the lad looked class pre season and is carrying that on to Birmingham.

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I hope we can tie down Adnan to a long-term deal, bring back Powell after a great season at Wigan and see Zaha make the right-wing his own by May. Then go and buy the players we need which will install confidence to the rest of the squad. Keane is a couple loans away from playing for us, but Jones looked good yesterday. For me the team is lacking confidence, SAF is a big miss so it isn't surprising. All we need is that confidence back and we will see the points starting to pile up.

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Jolly good post Syd and right on the money.

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19jackc94 I agree we have some really good younger players; Moyes needs to get as many of them in as possible as soon as possible. Supplement them with 3 top players (LB, CB, and CM) and we are to go.
Very good points made Syd. Its a real shame we have the international break now as the players do need to recapture that confidence togetherness again

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06 Oct 2013 10:29:51
Anybody see the Wigan game the other night in Europe Powell played really well and scored two goals

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Yeah, his second goal was fantastic. Shame he's being played up front though. We should get Powell and Lingard back by January and have them both fighting to get in the team with Januzaj. Then maybe we'd start playing much more attacking football.

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06 Oct 2013 10:26:33
I said Jones should be played I said Evans should be played now I think there our strongest centre half pairing if Sir Alex was here now Johnny Evans would be a regular in the team Rafael Jones Evans Coentreo would be one of the strongest back fours in the Premiership

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We got 99 problems but Vidic ain't one.

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Our strongest CB pairings would be Smalling/Vidic or Smalling/Jones.

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Oh Kloot, Vida is a big problem. His legs have caught up with him and it seems that any forward that can run fast in a straight line has the beating of him. Nothing against Vidic, fantastic player a few years ago and probably the finest centre half we have ever had, but time has caught up.
What was that about De gea as well, he really is developing into the finest goalkeeper in the World.

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So the old man is listening to rap now.

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Aaallj5, you cannot base that on one poor game mate. Vidic has been great up until that game.

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No he doesn't listen to rap mate, he came up with that song and jay z stole it off him! damn glazers/rooney/clever ley/fergie/gds/honeybadger

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I m expecting to see a center back signing aged between 24-27 and established. who will be regular in first 11. and smallings/jones will be paired accordingly. they both have different attribute while defending. vidic/smalling/jones will rotate as per value of game and injury.

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Smalling looks very uncomfortable, reminds me of Paul Parker on the ball and Kryiakos positionaly. Hopefully games will correct it, but I don't think he is Utd quality.

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Smalling has had a nightmare two years. Injury after injury and operation after operation. But for me he is still my first choice defender. CB's need a run of games to see the best of them. That is what Smalling needs, but even without a run of games I feel safer with him at the back than Rio or Evans.

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Sydney!

This isn't based on 1 performance, but the past few months. Ferdy, Vidic and Evra have fell victim to age. Vidic is constantly turned and is forced to cynically pull the attacker down at every opportunity. The ball is not going to stay in the air the whole match. Look at his last ditch dive when Johnson bundled the ball into the box yesterday. Or better still his exceptional clearance in the european game!
We have the talent already in the squad in Jones, Smalling and Evans, why hinder their progress because of sentiment.

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Aaallj5, I agree, I think it's time to play Smalling and Jones. Look what happened when we played an 18 year old Adnan. Let Smalling and Jones build a partnership and see how it goes. I think we will sign Garay and play Garay and Vidic, but I would seriously play Smalling and Jones.

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Syd, are you seriously suggesting, at a turbulent time for the club, and in a position where players get better with age and experience, that we should throw in Smalling and Jones together at this early stage of their careers?

Evans is much more experienced in defensive craft. if we're talking about getting rid of Vidic, which I wouldn't do just because of a few mistakes, then there has to be some experience in that partnership.

Very naive, mate. Now is not the time to be throwing two youngsters into such a difficult position to play.

StevieK

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06 Oct 2013 09:48:59
Gds2

I'm expressing my opinion and frustration on here as a Manchester United fan who I've been following for over 36 years through the good and bad, success and not success.
Last time I checked its a free country and I'm allowed to express my views. Many on here will agree with me and many will disagree.
Your opinion of me docent bother me one bit. If u love Moyes great go and support a mid table team mind you the way we are going that's what wel be.
I will stick to my guns and say we will win nothing for the term David moyes contract, if he is to remain in charge for the 5 years.(I doubt it as with no champions league prospects we have no chance of attracting top players).
Carling cup dosent count. We will not win the league or champions league under him. That's not being negative it's being realistic. If he proves me wrong I will be a happy man as it will mean he has won league and chalanged for champions league. 2nd best is not good enough for me I want to be a winner and would do whatever it took to win.
We won the league last year with this team, if you say its because sir Alex was the manager, and that no other manager would be able to achieve what he did with this team, then I disagree. Mourinhio, Laudrop, pep guadiola, kloop would do much better than David moyes and I do beleive under any of these we would win the league.
I totally agree we need to buy players and also let go of players, but with the quality he has to pick from he should be doing a lot better than he is doing. If we have to rely on a 18 year old then that's very worrying. Why isn't RVP and other players playing like he did last year. You only need to look at players body language and see something is not right.
Mohrinio went to Chelsea and made tough calls on mata etc and now they are all playing for him. They will win the league in my opinion.
Guadiola same at Munich. Imagine if we had Laudrop as manager with an experienced director of football, imagine the quality of football we would have. He has done wonders on a shoe string at Swansea and brought through a few young players also, especially Davis at LB who would be a great accuisition for us.

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Mate

Nobody minds you having an opinion or voicing it. It's just you repeat the same things again and again and rarely post anything constructive. I'm not trying to have a go, just giving you my view from reading your posts. I'm trying to be positive about our situation but finding it hard given what we have seen but bleating continually doesn't achieve anything. let's have some constructive suggestions for discussion (apart from sack Moyes)

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Draig, couldn't agree with you more. There are many that think the only prerequisite to being a successful united manager is the ability to stay in a job a long time. To those people who think that all you need is time. why was O'Farell and Atkinson sacked? Given time would they not have been succesful? No they were correctly sacked because they weren't good enough. SAF was very different. He came to United with a pedigree and proven track record. to those people on here who say we should get behind DM and not put so much pressure on him, I say the opposite. Survival under extreme pressure will either make him or break him. Let's hope it makes him. To those who say he needs to learn the ropes. This man has a £36m contract. For that sort of money I expect him to hit the ground sprinting.
Think with your head and not your heart. DM is not the right man for the job!

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A few weeks into the season is not a good time to try to change your manager (unless you were Sunderland). Your choice of an alternative manager is very limited ad statistics over the years have shown that unless you are Harry Rednapp the results get worse. Anyway, even though David Moyes clearly did not have a good close season, h showed great courage in starting Janujaz in a must win away game. As regards the criticisms of Cleverly and Jones, I think that both made telling positive contributions to yesterday's game. The tam looked more confident in the second half, which bodes well for the ext game. Had Van Persie scored near the end, his confidence would return.
There's light t the end of the tunnel.
Red Setter

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I think draig Goch should be allowed to say whatever. If u don't like his/her posts, then don't read them.
I think he's right on moyes, I don't think he will win anything in his time here. Giving time to the wrong manager could prove more disastrous than if u got rid of them quickly.
Everyone makes mistakes. The people who succeed, act on their mistakes quickly.

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06 Oct 2013 09:34:50
The negativity among some on here stinks big time. People have decided every week that Tom Cleverley is going to have a bad game before kick off. He played well yesterday.

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Steven

I agree on cleverly. I really think he is a good player but needs to be given time and regular football as more of an attacking midfielder rather than holding which Moyes wants him to be. His confidence is low he is a young lad. Look at Ramsey at arsenal last year he was awful but this year with the right players around him to let him express himself has had a wonderful start to the season. He's playing well and scoring goals. Cleverly is the same for me. He will come good. Just be patient with him and buy a quality centre midfield to play with him.

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Are you serious he's a terrible player he shoudnt be wearing the Manchester United shirt, he gives us nothing what so ever going forward or backward which most of the time he kicks the ball backward, the next thing you will be saying crapbeck, nani, anderson are worldclass let me have something your on

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I felt Cleverley was a weak link in the centre of our midfield. He neither creates, controls or defends well but is a busy player. He takes the ball and gives short passes and keeps it moving but is limited in what he achieves. One of our problems is a lack of creativity but another has been a lack of goals from midfield. Cleverley doesn't contribute to the creativity or with goals, an old saying jack of all trades master of none. That central position is one that needs sorting out and Cleverley like Anderson isn't the answer.

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Steven

I'm not a Cleverley fan but I thought he did ok yesterday and I agree, some have am their minds up. And mark welsh, classy post mate, classy

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Red Man, funny that as yesterday I saw Cleverley make two great tackles to retrieve the ball from Sunderland in dangerous areas and I seen him get forward more times than Carrick. Yet Cleverley was the weak link in midfield yesterday. He shifted the ball quick whilst Carrick was taking lifetimes to pass the ball. I am not saying Cleverley is better than Carrick, but he was much better yesterday, so just goes to prove that Cleverley is the new scapegoat at MU. People may do well to learn from how Arsenal treated Ramsey last season and how Ramsey has been their best player this season so far. It's funny how so many on here thought Fellaini would be a massive improvement on Cleverley, is he? £30m's worth better? I don't think so.

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Draig goch - That's exactly the key to us seeing the best from Cleverley, where he plays. SAF made the same mistake with Cleverley as he did with Anderson; he tried to turn him into a deep midfielder. Cleverley has plenty f energy, is always lively and likes to one touch pass which is something that would prove much more effective in, and around, the opposition area.

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Somebody please explain the point of the Brand to me. He only ever plays the way he is facing the highest percentage of his passing going backwards or side ways he has played around 55 games for United scored 2 goal and assisted 3. He is a typical academy player. There is no flair style or creativity about him and the fact he gets into the England side tells you why we struggle. No surprise to see Sydney defend his love child but Syd talks rubbish most of the time

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Kloot, how many has Carrick scored and assisted playing in the exact same position?

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Great! We are still blaming Clevs for the lack of personnel in our team? He was played out of position repeatedly by SAF (yes he is better further forward). I am not his biggest fan and he is not the solution to our midfield woes. He has shortcomings to his game. But yesterday he was better than Carrick. So far I have not seen a lot of difference between a Fellaini/Carrick or Carrick/Cleverly partnership. We still get overrun. What does that say? Missing out on Thiago was a huge mistake. I put te blame for this squarely on Moyes.

Every year we get into the scape goat mode, don't we. Broken record yeah! It is funny how RVP and Carrick(recent times) are immune to criticism. No matter how poor they play, people seem to pick on their usual targets. Clevs, Evra, Rooney the shameful threesome.

Deeps

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Deeps, all players have their good days and bad days. Their poor moments and their good moments during a game and everyone is entitled to their opinion on a player whoever it is, but when a player does nothing wrong and is still being blamed for something, for me that shows that their mind is already made up. That the player in question is a scapegoat and no matter how he plays he will never be accepted.

It is clear as the day is bright what is wrong at the moment. MU are playing with two deep laying midfielders either Fellaini and Carrick or Carrick and Cleverley and we are playing with two strikers. There is a gaping hole in the centre where Rooney used to be. Rooney was the link up between the midfield and the main striker. Now he wants to play on par with RvP the team is suffering.

For me that isn't Rooney's fault. He has every right to want to play where he wants to play. Also with RvP and Rooney's contract being incentive based, why would he want RvP scoring all of the goals getting paid large bonuses when he could be doing the same. I completely understand Rooney's point of view, but the team is suffering for it. There is a big hole between the midfielders and attack and that is why the strikers are left isolated.

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Sydney

What does Cleverley contribute? There is a hole in our central midfield that the bottom team exploited particularly in the first half. If it had been a better team we would have lost and Tom is a good squad player no more no less. Don't include me on the Fellaini issue, not United standard.

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Red Man, Cleverley is not a world beater by any stretch, but he is not the reason our midfield is lacking. There are a number of issues. One being what I have mentioned above in regards to playing two strikers neither playing in the hole. Another issue is the CB's need to push up more, but Vidic is often caught out that way. Rio no longer ventures forward as he cannot get back in time. We need two CB's who can venture forward so it pushes the midfielders further up the field. Jones IMO is ready and Smalling is too. I would try that pairing. We also need inverted wingers who can get back and defend. Silva is a prime example. he stays central to add more midfielders and he gets back and defends. Should have been booked three times yesterday whilst defending. Valencia can defend, but he isn't great on the ball and is too one footed. Januzaj could do a job on the left, but he's still learning. We could swap Cleverley for Herrera and still struggle centrally. It's more than just one problem. Fellaini has proven that.

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Syd

I agree with your points mate. But then help me understand why some players in the team are never called out for their poor performances. That is what gets on my nerves. Its like people behave like sheep and endorse what's popular. Brilliant case in point being yesterday's game. People came in numbers to say Cleverly was poor, yet show me one post which details Carrick's performance yesterday? RVP looked very poor, missed a glorious chance at the end, but dare we talk about it.

Redman

I agree with almost every point that you usually make on this forum mate. I like your posts as well. But tell me something, what did Carrick do yesterday? For a supposed brilliant player, he got owned by Cattermole and Co.

Deeps.

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Sydney,
I agree with you stats over cleverly and carrick on the basis of goals and stats, however with carrick we expect spreading of the ball and controlling the game from midfield. No one knows what to expect from cleverly and what he is good at.

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Deeps

I commented earlier that I felt I saw the first signs of age creeping up on Carrick yesterday, he was crowded out and a little bullied. He does remain calm but we were too overrun in that area particularly in the first half. Carrick has been an excellent servant but if we persist tactically with two in the middle then my feeling is that it is just starting to be the twilight of his career. I remain a bit surprised we set up the way we did yesterday and I would have looked to start tighter centrally. Then as the game developed look to exploit width.

My concerns which I expressed at the beginning of the season included the ageing of Rio, Vidic and Carrick and to me Vidic and Carrick are also now displaying signs of their age. Vidic looked flustered in our last two games and yesterday looked a little lost for pace, we don't know if those knee injuries still affect him. It likely explains a little why we are dropping a little too deep as well because if it was tactical it is naive. The spine of our team isn't right and I include worrying signs over Carrick although believe he has a little while in the team yet.

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I'm frequently slagging off Carrick and RVP - it is well deserved this season.

RVP looks like he doesn't want to be here now Rooney has started to take the glory, switch from last year. They can't play together as they would rather shoot at risk than pass for a certain goal (to each other).

Carrick is the reason we create nothing, he is too slow and makes it 5 at the back so opponents can pick up the rest when we have the ball. Smalling isn't good enough.

We need to start throwing more youngsters into the team, they play with passion, speed and aren't afraid to attack.

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I'm not saying Cleverley is the answer to our midfield issues, but he is not as bad as many make out and will be a very useful squad player for years to come.

My issue is with people who have made their minds up about him so cannot bring themselves to acknowledge when the lad has had a good game. That is bias and unfair on Tom, who no matter your opinion of him, always gives 100% and loves playing for Manchester United.

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MrSween, Carrick has been good, but he is not the answer to our midfield. For me he holds onto the ball for far too long and slows down the tempo. Cleverley gets stick, but if we were to sign Herrera or if we signed someone like Thiago/Cesc, it would be players like Cleverley who would work better with them. Cleverley passes backwards and sidewards but the point is he is passing it and he is keeping the ball moving. If there were more players on his wavelength we would be a better side and IMO players like Herrera would work far better with Cleverley than they would with Fellaini or Carrick.

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Sydney

If we had signed Cesc or Thiago would Kagawa rather than Cleverley be the beneficiary? Cleverley would better suit a faster game but then Kagawa is better again in that scenario. I am not substantially denigrating Cleverley but he isn't suited to a 2 man central midfield platform. Kagawa is a superior player but will we ever play the style to suit him under Moyes?

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Sydney - I rate Cleverley, he suffers from the same issue that Kagawa does, not enough clever or mobile players around him and not being played regularly in their specific position. We saw how well he started when Anderson started with him a couple of years ago, the key was the movement that Anderson provides. It frees up space for the wingers and strikers to have time on the ball and Cleverley was able to pull the strings - quick football.

Carrick is the weak link, but because of our defensive frailties we need an anchor man of sorts. If your faith in Smalling is warranted then I think he needs to start more, but Evans has done very little wrong. That will mean once we are solid at the back we can get rid of the insurance policy and be far more creative going forward with players like Cleverly pulling the strings, he is wasted at the minute as is Kagawa.

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It is odd to Carrick to defend Cleverly's performance I have to say. But here is a simple question, do you think if Carrick got injured tomm, cleverly can even do half of what Carrick does defensively or offensively?

Cleverly is going to be 25 and this idea that he needs more time is funny as we are still waiting for 25/26 year old Mr. anderson to show up. You either have it or you don't and he has none of the attributes of a great midfielder.

Th only reason he had a better second half, is if you watch the match last night again, our fullbacks pretty much played the second half up the pitch and he was allowed to do his 5 yards this way or that way because their midfielders were trying to cover 2 guys down each wing.

Put a few midfielders around him and he does not know what to do and just gives it back to Carrick or the CB's.

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Cleverley is 24 Shahram, he has had THREE seasons of injury and has had just ONE full season as a MU and England player. How about let him have a few full seasons at MU before he is judged. {Ed007's Note - Are we REALLY going there again Syd?}

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007, I know it's crazy isn't it? A MU fan wanting to give a MU player time to develop. If only I wasn't like the others who are ready to drive him out of the club. {Ed007's Note - I'm sure when he returns to Wigan there will be an outcry about why Moyes let him leave.}

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007, Cleverley will have a long MU career. {Ed007's Note - That just shows you how far the team has slumped in recent years.}

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06 Oct 2013 09:13:05
The first seeds of recovery have been sown, moyes finally started januaz. Two goals was an excellent return. I know the majority of the team needs replacing but maybe at last moyes has started to see the team he wants emerging. There is a long way to go and major changes are needed. Left back needs sorting - maybe fabio needs a run. Midfield needs sorting and centre defence too. If moyes can bring zaha through as well we might have the creative wingers we need. Not perfect but a rebuilding job is needed, we all know that but it has to start somewhere and results might suffer but we'll get there.

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You know the majority of the team needs replacing (god help us)!

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Their is the small problem that has turned into a big problem in the last two years we new the players were getting older this was a problem three years ago but we were still winning now the players are old and we only have a few young players

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06 Oct 2013 08:48:18
So many people destroying moyes

He has just shown if your good enough you will play like januzaj has!

I know we aren't playing great but can you blame vidics calamity defending on moyes! that error gave them a goal it was vidics fault!

Personally i'm obviously not happy about way we are playing but we are getting there that performance after 25 minutes was better than others this season regardless the team we played

Can I just say de gea is no doubt going to be world no 1 soon

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And the every next game you see giggs playing above kagawa /zaha.
how about that?

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06 Oct 2013 07:57:53
So so glad we won that match. I've been saying for ages that I hope adnan gets his chance and wow did he take it! A very van Persie like volley and a neat finish. Can't help but continue to worry. Sunderland were very solid and exposed us in our weak areas a lot of the match, and from what I saw that seemed to be down the left wing a hell of a lot. Patrice evra looks to be playing as he did the city title winning season, way too high up and not tracking back. By doing that he screwed vidic over a good few times and inevitably Sunderland took advantage of that and scored. Still, an impressive and inspiring comeback but evra giving every reason why moyes was right in seeking a left back in my opinion. i'm sure we will beat Southampton though, adnan and Rooney seemed to link up really well.

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06 Oct 2013 04:44:52
Make no qualms about it 20m is what we would pay for adnan if he was with another team, under a 3/4 year contract. So give the lad what he wants wage wise as we fmdont have to oay a transfer fee for this remarkable talent.

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20m is cheap mate for this boy. we just spend 27.5 for a guy who looks like he has ankle weights when running.

I just hope they manage him well and don't burn him out with too many games. He is still growing and other teams will mark him and give a rough time.

Good thing seems like we are going to get it done and sign him to a long term contract. There are guys on this team earning 50k to 90k a month that don't deserve it and we should pay the boy what is fair regardless of age.

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My point exactly. I know we have a wage structure in place which allows for wage rises at set milestones, but this lad is something special and deserves to be on the cleverly/welbeck(could probably be given more then these too even)wage bracket straight up.

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If this stubborn people has any positive brain than ego. pogba would have still been here and dominated the midfield the way he is doing at juventus.

be prepared to see januzaj run down his contract as well. {Ed002's Note - No - he was always going to leave.}

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06 Oct 2013 20:18:21
Ed02, you are beating your head against a brick wall here, no matter how many times you have said Pogba was leaving regardless of money or playing time, there are people on here who believe they know better. For them it's easier to blame SAF or the owners than it is to blame the player and his greedy representatives.

Can I ask if there is any update on Januzaj? Do you still believe he will sign? Thanks. {Ed002's Note - Nothing new Syd.}

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06 Oct 2013 02:05:00
Well after watching the match I think Sunderland today were a very good opponent and januzaj was the clear difference. I think if Sunderland were playing like that when Di Canio was in charge he wouldn't have gotten the sack. I think teams recently have seen our weakness, and that is the lack of technical ability (obviously) in the middle of the park and therefore put our midfield two under a lot of pressure. Even Carrick whose range of passing and reading of the game, if constantly put under pressure is not technically good enough to take on two players who are hounding him every time he's on the ball.
Now I don't think Fellaini is going to be the answer either, even though he is a very good player, I don't think he's going to partner Carrick as much as I had first thought. I think he's going to be more of a replacement for Carrick as he gets older, and will play instead of him IMO.
I do think all in all a good result today, and Rvps miss at the end just summed up the run we are going through- the abilitys there, we're just not firing on all cylinders just yet. But I do think we will get there, and come the end of the season we will be competing for the top spot.
On to the anti moyes brigade- do you really want to make all your judgements this early? You will be left very red faced if moyes turns all this around. So just stop your whining and moaning, support the team or hold your judgements till the end of the season, it's getting boring.

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Jase, you make some good points but you also contradict yourself. You are saying that Moyes should be given time, but only if a manager has come in and tried to change things for the better. So far we have played around 18 games under Moyes and I can't really say that we have looked commanding in any of them. He had two months to strengthen our squad but chose not to bid for thiago, ozil. Also he didn't get the left back we needed so desperately. He has since made some utterly ridiculous team selections and tactics, come out and said that we might get more thrashings like the one we got at city. And to cap it all, only bought fellaini. Is this a man u want as our manager?
I won't bore you any further, but I live partly in Portugal, my neighbour is van gaal, much respected manager and now coach of Holland. He is not scared of saying what's on his mind, and while chatting when Moyes was appointed, he was totally surprised. Not because he dislikes moyes. He is very knowledgeble about the English game and he expressed doubts on moyes's style of football and didn't think this will suit United or the modern style being adopted buy all the major clubs. More recently, he has had doubts over the way rvp is being trained and played.
So, we're not just knocking Moyes for the sake of it, I've been saying for ages to play the kids, change the style to a modern high pressing football, but apart from januzaj, have you seen any change or improvement in our style of football? Let's face it, anyone can see that januzaj is a class act, so let's not give Moyes the credit for that one. Zaha and one or two of the u21 need to be incorporated before we can start giving Moyes credit.
One final word, kagawa, player of the year twice in Germany, one of the best footballing minds in the world, can't get a game playing in our team, does that make sense to you?

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05 Oct 2013 22:19:20
Southampton will beat us next game.?
We had to rely on 1 player today an 18 year old making his debut. For all you Rooney lovers is till think he's overrated and will leave untd on a free. Van persie will go back to arsenal as moyes really has lost dressing roo with his recent comments to the press.
!MOYES HAS TO GO!!!!

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We don't want vpersie back. lol

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Goch,

You are beginning to really get on my nerves, the worst type of supporter, the type of supporter I would used to have to call 'no name' but now just call a troll. What do you add to the site posting like that every week. It's boring.

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Here here GDS2.

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Been coming on your site a few times recently wondering what you think is going on at united, from an outsider viewing in, my point of view is that:

We are 6-7 games in calm down, moyes was given a 6 year contract for a reason, they knew it would take time, he has fergie upstairs for advise. (Weather he takes it or not is another story) you have januzaj coming though who seems a top talent. Like I've said on another post, I think a clear out is needed for united but I also think moyes is the right man for the job, he was at Everton, a club that was battling for 5-7 year on year, now at united where 2nd place is frowned upon so it's going to be hard for him and it might not work out for moyes or united. But most of your fellow fans are getting behind him, and like wenger has said for arsenal fans are important, very important.

Just over 30 games left. The title race hasn't even started yet.

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Goch

You cannot ask people to take your view points seriously, when you can't even mention UNITED properly in your posts. Or are you too busy trying to show all of us the negatives that surround us. (The ones that we already know). Change the record son.

Deeps.

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