Manchester United Banter Archive July 07 2014

07 Jul 2014 22:34:58
Just out of curiosity, does anyone think fellani could turn into a CB? i'm not suggesting we dnt sign another CB but maybe worth a punt there? Otherwise we would take a massive loss on a transfer out of the club?

07 Jul 2014 23:30:29
May as well roll out the red carpet to the penalty spot,mate

His tackling just isn't up to it.
If it was it, wouldn't be a bad idea at all.

Certainly not. All he has is aerial ability. and even then its just winning the ball, not clearing it. His passing isn't up to scratch, he lacks pace to track back and is incredibly lazy.


Bloody hell why did we buy him?

08 Jul 2014 00:11:20
In don't think we'll see any more signings until van gaal has had some time with the squad.

08 Jul 2014 10:53:00
He'd have to turn into a footballer first

Yep good idea if u want us to end games with 10 men

I don't think many of you have much football knowledge, no offence. Just because someone is good at 'tackling' does not mean they will be a good defender, I've played my entire life at centre back and from people who have dropped back from various other positions have said it's definitely the hardest position to play. You have to be aware of what's happening around you 100% of the time, I don't think Fellani is mentally up to the job of being a centre back at a mid table club let alone the highest level.

Anon I don't think you have much football knowledge if your implying Fellaini is good at tackling?? There is many reasons why he will never be a cb and the fact he cannot tackle is just 1 of them.

Im not his biggest fan but i'd give him a few chances this coming season, everyone deserves a decent chance to prove themselves at a new club but if he produces the level of performances as he did for us last year then i'd just bench him and use him as nothing more than an impact player playing were he did for everton and then ship him off somewhere next year.

08 Jul 2014 13:02:49
Are you available Anon?

I agree with Bilko
lol

07 Jul 2014 19:55:37
Just curious to see how many people want Fellaini sold in this transfer window? The general consensus on this site seems to be that he doesn't deserve to be in the United team but he hasn't really had a fair crack? A disjointed season with injury under Moyes when nobody on the team played very well. I see him get slated by everyone on her and yes he can seem cumbersome and give away fouls but he can also dominate games and offer something that none of our other midfielders can. Thoughts? Do you think he should stay at United?

I thought he would look better and do better, but he is too slow and doesn't offer much more than a physical presence. I think he should be sold as he doesn't offer enough in midfield - and we have far better players for the hole.

I was upbeat about him last summer but I was wrong.

He has never dominated games, he has bullied a few defences but dominating games implies that he is controlling the midfield. His best position is at the top of a three man midfield, but he is limited there as he proved over the last month with Belgium. At his best he is a battering ram to lump balls up front in the hope of getting knock downs and lay offs to players who can actually create. He's an average passer, poor tackler, slow in possession and an even slower runner, he can't shoot, and has stupid hair.

In fairness he does offer something different, but it isn't really something that a top class teams wants in an attacking midfielder. The only thing keeping him at the club is that nobody else is dumb enough to pay anything close to what we did.

I think he deserves a season under a manager that knows what he wants and how to get the best out of players.

If he steps up to the mark and can prove to be a good member in the squad then great if not then sell him on.
I feel the criticism he tends to get isn't totally fair. Its not his fault moyes dithered around and then gave the green light for us to panic buy for a price that would of been cheaper only a few weeks before. Therefore meaning he had an unrealistic task of justifying the price paid for him. Had he of come in to a settled squad with a solid manager to show what he can do and offer something different then i'm sure he would of looked a half decent purchase

I have no real care either way. He won't play but could be useful to rotate with in Carling Cup games.

He was awful last season and awful in the World Cup and I can't see him not being awful next season if he stays

Fellaini had one effective position and that was off the main forward where he could use his chest control and heading ability to cause problems. This was highlighted last year before we signed him. Unless LvG wants to step back to play like Everton then he will be surplus. He can go for me and I don't see any real footballing teams rushing to sign him and I fear we will take a big loss on him. We have too many adequate rather than top players and they also block any hope for youngsters, Fellaini was a poor signing and a symbol of what was wrong last season. Take what we can.

Danny - I would agree that he might be best at the top of a 3 man midfield, something we can't really offer him at United. I would say he has dominated games however, not necessarily by dictating play with passing but by imposing himself on other players, winning the ball back, driving forward, etc. When Everton beat us 1-0 two seasons ago he absolutely bullied our players. I think he deserves at least one full season under Van Gaal before he's cast away. Although I guess reports claiming Van Gall already doesn't fancy him?

It's a double edged sword. If we sell him now we'll look foolish for losing 10-15m on a player in less than 12 months. If we wait his value might drop even further.

Simply not good enough. sad for him but he is not of thw calibre united should have

I can't see anyone paying anywhere near what we paid and I'd be surprised of there was much interest after the indifferent year he's had. Personally, I think he'd be most effective as a Plan B from the bench for those times we need to be direct.

He absolutely bullied us 2 seasons ago? that wouldn't of been hard with the midfield we've had

Hope we sell him. Defensively, he fouls constantly. Offensively, too slow, and even his passes rumble along the turf, no zip in them.

Redseven - the benefit of selling him now as well as cash could be the message it sends internally. No matter how much we pay we won't tolerate second rate play. Saying that we knew what we were getting when we bought him and it just smacked of desperation, he looked quicker at Everton though!

LVG needs to be ruthless due to the size of our squad and the amount we are paying in wages for fringe players, especially without Europe and youth coming through. We need 6+ players to be moved on.

The only way we could get 27m of any currency back is we sell him to a Russian side; and they pay in Rubles

27m Rubles is about 500k GBP. We don't have to tell anyone do we?

The Beast -

It's entirely unfair to suggest that Fellaini is mediocre and more so to suggest that he has in some way done something wrong. He is a very good footballer if a club plays a certain way. Unfortunately for him that's not the Manchester United way.

As you rightly say; it's clear that the club made a mistake in signing him. I think it's best they just hold their hands up and admit to it. The new manager coming in may deflect some of the criticism as it could be argued that he just isn't a LVG player - but ultimately the club done goofed and everybody sees it.

Like all suspect players undervalued he won't necessarily get the run of games to hit form. I think he is better and a little more dynamic than chest control. I was noticing a little improvement in his attacking positioning. but in a midfield two I'd be worried we'd concede too many fouls. even if he hasn't fouled his clumsy look has a ref thinking so.

I'd like to see him stay and see how he performs in a mid three. could be useful when we do come up against physical teams, at corners and being back post when the balls flying in. give him chance as a squaddie

When Moyes had him at everton he used him as a no. 10 or AM and in fairness he won then some games. Yet when we signed him he was the answer to our defensive midfield problems! Why? Well he was hardly getting in ahead of Rooney! We are not everton and Moyes seemed to fail to realise that he may do well in a particular system but none we would ever use! Unless we still had the brilliant tactician that is David Moyes! It was a total waste of 27m and if we can, we should try and recoup as much of that as possible!

07 Jul 2014 13:50:30
Ed is there a reason that none of myposts asking about interest in Patrick Rberts from Fulham pass the edit?

{Ed002's Note - It was 10 days ago - I have no idea.}

07 Jul 2014 17:29:21
I never really expected Vidal to sign for us in all honesty. It looks likely now that our future signings will be William Carvalho, Stefan De Vrij and Thomas Vermaelen. The summer is still a long one so if these three are tied up pretty quickly I could see us dragging out the remainder of the transfer window looking for a winger.

My fingers are still crossed for Vidal however!

Thoughts?

Even if we was to sign the 3 players you mentioned i'd still count the transfer window as a success then in January we could go for strootman

And next years window look at 2 wingers and possibly a st

07 Jul 2014 17:22:57
RIP Alfredo Di Stefano. A true great of this beautiful game. He knew how to play it.

07 Jul 2014 17:12:22
R.I.P Alfredo di Stefano. Now, this man was a player. He is amongst my earliest memories of football, scoring in five consecutive European Cup finals 1956-60. If he was playing today, he would be worth as much as Messi, Ronaldo and Neymar combined. A great man and an amazing footballer. He will be sorely missed.

07 Jul 2014 15:04:46
Would just like to add to the captaincy debate a little further down the page. Do people think the captain should be playing week in week out, or is their presence at training and in the dressing room enough?

The way I see it is that a Captain has to be an extension of the manager on the field, he has to know the system, the tactics but he also has to have the respect of the players and he must be able to motivate the players in a similar way to the manager.

RVP, imo is the only person who fits that bill in our current squad. I would love to see it be RVP with Evans or Jones as the VC.

I think it'll be RVP with Rooney as VC.

I don't see how it really matters to us though, simply because for example Bebe is captain, as long as he can motivate and translate the managers instructions to the players then everyone should be happy with it.

If he were to just do nothing, or appear to just do nothing then I would understand the problem.

Week in week out for sure. I'd give it to De Gea - a humble guy, always in the team and I think players further back can see more.

Captain has to be a first team regular. If fit and playing well, they need to play.

Needs to be playing imo

I can't see any player playing week in week out so its more motivational, having a captain with presence about him is vital.

I'm not in favour of goalkeepers being captain personally.

I would bet a months wage our captain will not be ddg

07 Jul 2014 16:10:05
Never really subscribed to the idea of a goalkeeper as captain, how are they supposed to talk to the referees regularly? I think Rooney will get it

Yeah I certainly think he needs to be a first team starter as well. For me it comes down to Evans if he can stay fit (getting really forgotten about lately, exactly the type of intelligent CB than van Gaal likes, but that's another conversation!) and de Gea. We saw how last season he began to really command his area and his maturity is pretty obvious. difficult to get orders around the pitch though when keeper are captains.

We don't know the players well enough and what they are like in the changing room.

Mata has a brain and I imagine people will listen when he talks, but he seem to insular to be captain. RVP oozes confidence and will be an echo for LVG, DDG is 100% going to play every game for a long time but is young. Rooney isn't assured to start and he hasn't covered himself in glory over recent years with the desire to leave and fitness etc. Jones, Evans, Smalling - will they be playing or even with the club in 12 months time? We have a serious lack of experience and class so it has to be either RVP or DDG imo. But who knows who the players look up to in the changing room.

I'd like to think they are all so professional a captain is only needed for the coin toss, so the point should be moot.

RVP struggles to motivate himself; let alone the rest of the team. He's also injury prone.

I think the next captain should be English. If Jones had progressed as we had all hoped I'd say he was the best candidate but as it is I'd say Rooney then Jones once Rooney retires.

RVP is too petulant when things don't go his way, he won't be the ideal choice to be the captain for sure. Class player, but captain, no thanks!

Deeps.

I personally believe a captain needs to be able to motivate players even bollock them if necessary RVP does't appear to be like that and LVG doesn't agree with me, nevermind he cannot be right in all things
I think Keane was perfect as captain and has been missed

07 Jul 2014 19:01:41
If vidal signs he would be my choice as captain. otherwise RVP is the best choice for me.

I think we all agree what a captain should be - the problem is that nobody seems viable in our team for that role. Sign Vidal or Hummels. problem solved.

I agree i'd make vidal captain. Now all we got to do is sign the bugger.

I c agree also that a captain needs to be the guy on the pitch that is an extension of the manager.

And its for this reason I can't see it been rooney. Fergie said rooney was difficult when it came to implementing tactics. Hence why he opted for welbs vs real.

07 Jul 2014 20:58:42
Blatantly be Rooney or RvP. Just depends how LVG sees Rooney when he turns up, it'll more than likely be him.

Regardless of the past he's vocal, knows the squad well and has a high work rate with tracking back and helping the team defend.

Agree sign vidal give him the number 7 shirt and captaincy and then we have our new robbo captain marvel.

07 Jul 2014 13:41:13
Quite a fan of the new home kit, although not sure about the strange buttoned collar. An improvement on last season though. Still a long way to go to beat the 08/09 kit.

I really like the design, the button part is slightly strange but could grow on me. The let down is the sponsor logo!

Better than I expected. The more I see the more I like it. Reminds me of some the old 80s kits we used to wear. I didn't see the buttons though. It's a shame they didn't reveal it with Vidal wearing it ;) wishful thinking

07 Jul 2014 09:44:17
A newspaper reporting that LvG will play a 343 next season. We currently have Smalling, Evans, Jones & Keane as CB options. We are heavily linked to both Vermaelen & Hummels. If we were to sign both Vermaelen & Hummels then I imagine Jones will play right, Hummels central and Vermaelen left. Smalling/Keane and Evans being back-up for right and left respectively. What I like about this formation is a) the freedom Shaw/Evra and Valencia/Rafael will get to get forward and b) Hummels would be allowed to step into the midfield pushing Herrera and hopefully Vidal further forward. Obviously if the 343 is implemented well it is solid defensively and when defending set pieces and freekicks we will have plenty of defensive bodies to defend them. Another benefit is it will pack the midfield with bodies. Something we have missed for years now. Teams have been able to cut through us like a hot knife through butter. This formation will also allow Rooney, Van Persie and Mata to play together. With Van Persie upfront and Mata and Rooney just behind him. This will also give Rooney licence to get forward too much like Robben and Sneijder do for Holland. I guess we will know a bit more when we watch preseason. But I am more than happy with this idea as long as we can get Hummels and Vidal.

07 Jul 2014 10:13:03
it's basically 523 which I don't like the idea of at all.

We're sacrificing a midfielder for a defender.

hope it is just paper talk.

Also if LvG can turn the likes of Kuyt and Blind into wingbacks, can you imagine what he could do with Valencia?

I'm not sure a 3-4-3 is the best way to go for us next season, it won't get the best out of all our top players (Mata, Rooney & RvP) imo. Unless it was adapted where Mata played central almost as a false nine dropping deeper allowing Rooney & RvP to drift in more, essentially making it a 3-4-1-2 as such.

I'd much prefer a 4-2-1-3 with both Vidal (if signed) and Herrera deepest of the midfield full of energy that allows Mata to play as a number ten and a fluid, interchanging front three of Rooney, RvP & Januzaj.

Believe, I think you are spot on. Any 3-4-3 formation would need to be tweeked to be more 3-4-1-2, and I like your idea of 4-2-1-3, though I think the team might be lacking a bit of pace.

If someone like DiMaria or Sanchez is signed, I imagine Rooney might be the one to be benched, or maybe sharing a position with Januzaj

It is possible. It would enable us to play Rooney and Mata in their best positions.

But the problem I am seeing is that where does a winger like Di Maria fit in who we are allegedly in for? In place of Rooney up front?

Fresh, depends. Holland play Van Persie with a quick Robben next to him with Sneijder just behind. LvG wanted Robben/Mueller/Sanchez/Di Maria so perhaps they would have partnered RvP with Rooney or Mata playing the Sneijder role.

That is what I would of thought. I'd of though Sanchez would be perfect for that, a better fit that Di Maria in fact. Sanchez and RVP up front with Mata or Rooney behind would be top draw. Shaw and Valencia providing some width and a hard working Herrera and Vidal in the middle.

One thing LVG will do is use a formation to suit the playing staff he has, we will probably be slow starting the season as the players get into the system.
He is always slow starting with a new team

I have posted a team on the teams page relating to this thread. Have a look and comment back on here.

Pardoe, I agree. I think around Christmas time we will be seeing the better performances. Luckily for us we have decent fixtures for the first few months and with there being no UCL, players will remain fresh and injuries shouldn't be an issue.

Fresh, Di Maria played a lot of last season central. It could work, but I agree that Sanchez would probably be the better option.

Can't see van Gaal playing three at the back with us. He switched to this at the WC because of the players he had at his disposal. With us three at the back would be a disaster because all our defenders are injury prone, and we only have three cbs. Even if we added another two cbs it would be a massive risk.

Ultimately van Gaal's hand was forced to play this way at the WC because of an injury to his key midfield player. At United he will be able to build a team around his preferred formation, and that has always been 4-3-3.

07 Jul 2014 09:24:05
Can anyone on here add any light to how a club bids for a player. I keep reading stories that clubs are "preparing a bid". What actually goes into this. I understand that its more than just offering money and a payment plan but what else is there to prepare?

Im not being ignorant, just intrigued

IMO and I could be very wrong here. I think MU are making sure Vidal wants the move before we make an effort to sign him. The last thing the club will want is us going all out to get him and then him come out in public and say he doesn't want to join us. That would be a massive blow to the club's reputation. So maybe we are making sure Vidal wants the move 100% before making contact with Juventus.

I think the moment we start negotiating with Juventus is the moment we have agreed personal terms with Vidal via his representatives. If we do not make contact with Juventus, then I think that's down to us not being able to agree personal terms with Vidal.

Is that not "Tapping Up" though. I thought the correct process is contact club, and get approval to talk to the player. I think Ed Woodward leant the hard way after the Fabregas debacle last year.

It's only tapping up if MU speak directly to the player.

It is more than likely that we will be in chats with his representatives. They will act as a go between. To avoid embarrassment the bid will only go in once personal terms have been agreed.

Tapping up is a very fluid and loose thing lol

06 Jul 2014 18:39:39
edds,
doug costa or bernard from shaktar I think would be good additions to assist herrera in midfield for next season? cheers!