Manchester United Banter Archive May 07 2015

07 May 2015 22:05:21
Something I noticed when I watched some footage of Depay. He sometimes played wide right. I can see him or Adm playing either flank with a central forward come to think of it.

08 May 2015 01:06:33
I feel that if we carry on the 4-3-3 that LVG wants to play, ADM will play on the left of the midfield 3. Depay cutting in from the left will leave the space for ADM to be at his most effective. Add in a fully fit Luke Shaw and our left side will look unbelievably strong. Rooney to play as the central striker and in an ideal world, Bale to play on the right of Rooney. Maybe with either Herrera on the right of the midfield 3 with possibly Clyne bombing on from right back.

It leaves the question of where you fit in Mata. Personally I don't want him to leave, a great player and a nice guy but if that system is played, where would you play him?

A lot of names bandied around for Carricks position. I've always rated Carrick. He takes responsibility in the midfield. Dropping back to take the ball from the back four. This men's you don't get the 50 yard pings from Smalling etc that normally gives away possession. It let's the defenders worry about defending, not running to the centre circle and hoofing it.The problem with replacing Carrick is that while there are plenty of players who could do that job, not many are around that have his passing accuracy. Especially passing it forward. While Gundogan is a good player, I don't see him taking that responsibility. In my personal view, carvalho is the lad who can do that for us. Strootman is a very similar player to Carrick but his injuries have seen that deal die.

Of course Gundogan could play on the right of the 3 midfield too. As could Vidal, who I still rate as immense but I don't see both Vidal and Pogba leaving together after the great season Juve have had.

It's going to be an intriguing summer and I think the next couple of players signed will give us an idea of how LVG will have us playing.

08 May 2015 01:52:02
Good post, jamesmack, realistic. Some good points about Carrick. Not easy to find a player you can trust to play out of the back from that position. One type are the players who are very gifted on the ball, like Pirlo, Xavi, Gundogan, Verratti. They have a great touch, and are not afraid to shield under pressure, and they maintain composure in their passing decisions. But another type, given the physicality in the EPL would be players like Carvalho, Schneiderlin, Strootman, who may not be as dynamic on the ball, but who won't get stripped easily due to their size and strength. Hopefully we can get a player who can grow into the position over a few years while Carrick is still with us.

08 May 2015 03:57:23
Where do you fit Mata? Get rid of Di Maria and play Mata in the hole behind the striker where he works his magic.

08 May 2015 06:42:50
Jmb,

There is no real no.10 role in a 4-3-3. Just more advanced midfielders. The problem with Mata is not just his defensive work rate but his physicality too. At least ADM puts in the hard yards. We are all agreed that Mata does not have the pace to play out wide and he is being under utilised out there.
Don't get me wrong, if we can recoup 80% of what we paid for ADM, I think the club would seriously consider it. But it's not like we need the money is it? I would definitely give him another season, in the position that he played so well for Real Madrid last year.

08 May 2015 07:08:14
or we could worry about more than our first eleven considering the fact that we probably will be in the CL next year, and that we can't let any one injury derail our season. Just because mata doesn't feature in our "hopeful" eleven doesn't mean he should be sold.
We shouldn't look at the perfect 11,rather the perfect 15 or 16 and that should easily accomodate mata,ADM,Depay and hopefully another winger

{Ed025's Note - i think your right mate..

08 May 2015 07:40:56
Mata's work rate cannot be questioned. Second highest distance covered consistently in games. First is Herrera.

08 May 2015 08:32:28
Jamesmack,

Mata's work rate is twice that of Di Maria's and he even attempts to track back. Di Maria can't pass five yards and goes down at the drop of a pin. On top of that he doesn't even attempt to help out the defence. He may put in the yards but those are useless yards that lead to nowhere.

With say Carrick to mop up and Herrera to provide energy in CM then Mata could sit in front of them both and pick passes. Although I am still of the belief Felliani will be pivotal again in LVGs system next season.

08 May 2015 09:24:56
imightbesomeone,

Absolutely spot on, similar to a lot of posts I have written on here in the last few years, obviously not last year because without Champions League we did not need the massive squad. It is not about a first 11, it hasn't been for a number of years, it is about having a squad so that you can play one team on a Wednesday night away in Romania and then a different team on a Saturday afternoon in Swansea and win both games.

It is not really even 15 or 16, it is 20-25 players that you feel comfortable having on the pitch, there should be a big discussion about who the best 11 is but we should never really have a definitive answer to that unless we get to a cup final with a fully fit squad, as a different 11 should be suitable for different games. Fergie was a master at managing this and I imagine with his experience LVG will be decent at it too. Fingers crossed anyway.

08 May 2015 09:52:07
Covering the distance and making the distance covered count are two different tings.

07 May 2015 21:33:48
We just need to replace Carrick with someone younger (Gundogan? Pogba? Veratti?) and get another CB and Rightback and i think we'd have a really good team for the future.

with the likes of Herrera, Januzaj, Depay, Wilson and Pierra our attacking line up does look promising. and pacey, something we've lacked.

Just hope we can keep hold of De Gea and hopefully Shaw can get over his injuries.

07 May 2015 23:04:06
Jk92 just been reading up about gundogans injury it is according to certain reports called spondylolisthesis wich can become a deformaty of the spine surgery helps but could be a massive risk if as reported that is what he has

07 May 2015 19:29:02
So dortmund only sell one (big) player per window which I find ridiculous but hey some people believe it.

My question is which would you go for

Hummels or gundogan

Tough one for me but I'd go gundogan just because I think we require that sort of player more than a Cb at this moment.

07 May 2015 19:47:18
Hummels as we desperately need a good Cb and not sure if Gundogan is the same player as he was before injury.

07 May 2015 19:57:27
Gundogan for me. really like him and do have a small worry about Hummels pace!
Would then get the valencia CB instead

07 May 2015 20:00:17
Not seen much of Gundugon since his injury and always worry with getting stuck with another Hargreaves situation.

07 May 2015 20:57:21
Gundogan for me boss the midfield and then there's less pressure on the defence.I agree with brad like hummels the player but pace is a worry.We do need another CB though.If gundogan gets to anywhere near the level he ws at pre injury then we'd have a beast of a player.

07 May 2015 21:20:01
I'd go for Gundogan simply because I believe the central defenders we have will continue to improve. Smalling is already good enough, Jones and Rojo still have potential, and behind them I would not entirely dismiss McNair and Blackett. We desperately need midfielders, even if it's just so Nomifield feels redundant.

07 May 2015 22:36:38
Shawthing, I wouldn't like either of hummels or gundogan. But give me pogba and the name will disappear.

08 May 2015 01:39:31
Indeed, but he was not a hypothetical option.

Is the name predicated on personalities or performance?

08 May 2015 09:53:57
Hummels any day!

07 May 2015 16:59:48
If any of the edd's has time to answer it would be great. Now that depay is coming to United I just wanted to know what are your thoughts on him? Do any of you guys think he can become the next big thing ? (Hazard, Ronaldo, Robben)

{Ed002's Note - Try searching.}

07 May 2015 15:35:08
Over the moon with the signing of Depay, I think he has a lot of potential and could be a fantastic player for us on the future.

His signing though, made me think about who he is competing with for a position out wide. We have Di Maria, Young, Januzaj, Mata and Valencia who can all play on the wing. It particularly made me think about Juan Mata's future. There has been speculation about Di Maria leaving, Januzaj going on loan and whether Young will get a new deal but we currently have the best number 10 at the club playing wide right and it's not something I expect will continue long term. Mata is my favourite United player, really nice guy as well but if someone like Valencia came in with a 30m bid what would you want us to do?

Mata isn't a winger even though his best form this season has been on the right. He's never going to get a game in the no10 role as long as Rooney is there and LVG has taken to playing Fellaini in the most advanced midfield role over the last couple of months. Therefore what does everyone think will happen with Mata? Is it going to be another situation like he had a Chelsea where everyone knows he is a brilliant player but doesn't fit in? Will LVG try to accommodate him in the team?

I feel he's too good a player not to be played in his natural position and that if he was given a decent run in the side playing as a number 10 he'd link up fantastically well with Herrera as he already does but he'd be more involved in more dangerous areas.

07 May 2015 19:50:30
I think if we get a high 20s to 30 mill bid we will sell him and agree there seems to be an issue where he would play.

08 May 2015 02:11:15
Tough call on Mata. To fit him in centrally, at the moment, it would seem a midfield three of Carrick, Herrera, and Mata, with Young/Depay on the left and Di Maria right, and Rooney up top. Sounds nice in possession, but lightweight defensively in the MF. Perhaps the strengths would outweigh the negatives if we can become more dominant on both flanks.

08 May 2015 07:13:15
My sense is that LvG will play him centrally (no. 10) next season once he has the "balance" in the squad. He certainly likes Mata and the fact that he keeps the ball well and his close control is very good too.

Next Season, I fully expect Rooney up top with 2 fast wingers and a proper "6", "8" and "10" in midfield, the way LvG likes it. Herrera, Gundogan (if we sign him) will prob interchange for the No. 8 role with Carrick playing the 6, and a new signing in the summer coming in as a long term replacement with Mata playing the 10 and Fellaini interchanging with him.

{Ed025's Note - its not rugby you know japs.. :)

08 May 2015 07:56:06
True that ed ;) but where do you see Mata's future next season, more as a winger on the right side or a no. 10.

{Ed025's Note - i like mata japs, but with the inclusion of depay im not sure he will get a lot of game time mate unless ADM leaves..

09 May 2015 09:10:20
Cheers Mate :)

07 May 2015 14:47:20
Would a move for Nigel De Jong make sense as another midfield option.

I say this because getting a Carrick replacement will be tough, and also, Carrick hasn't really cut it in Europe.

Gundogan would be a very good buy, he could play alongside Herrera in a 2, or anywhere in a 3. But having De Jong would also give us a stronger option.

His stats are impressive, 88% pass completion, 3.6 interceptions per game, 2.2 tackles, 2.1 clearances.

De Jong would be extremely effective in big games where we need a strong presence in midfield, a ball winner. He is also good for keeping the ball as the stats show and also he is available for FREE. No £30 million investment needed, low risk, EPL experience.

As a none starting option I don't see any better. De Jong, Gundogan or Carrick for the deep role. Gundogan, Herrera or Fellaini for the more advanced role - as well as Mata or Januzaj.

07 May 2015 15:39:40
Carrick hasn't cut it in Europe hahahahahaha absolutely clueless

07 May 2015 15:44:51
Fresh De Jong does sound like a good option and will do a job for us.

My personal realistic choice would be Schneiderlin though.

07 May 2015 15:51:05
schneiderlin all day long

07 May 2015 16:12:49
Fresh, are we building utd or the new Dutch national team? :P

07 May 2015 17:34:48
Unfortunate coincidence he is Dutch haha.

And Carrick isn't amazing in Europe. Would he dominate against top teams? You're the clueless one if you think Carrick can compete with the likes of Xavi, Kroos, Schweinsteiger, Lahm etc.

{Ed025's Note - As an outsider fresh i have to say some of you dont seem to appreciate what carrick brings to the table, i think hes very good, and far better than blind or herrera..

07 May 2015 18:20:56
Carrick is fantastic, but not one of Europe's best. One of the EPLs best though.

07 May 2015 18:28:25
Fresh you are way off on Carrick mate and De Jong is nothing compared to Carrick and you must be on the sauce posting something like this.

07 May 2015 20:00:49
What is .2 of a tackle like? Where you almost get the ball but just miss it?

07 May 2015 20:01:38
I think Dejong could do s great job for us. share the load with Carrick. Would add some steel to the midfield and as he is free the money could be spent onother players.

07 May 2015 20:09:36
Carrick is the closest thing you will get to busquets. Who is considered to be the best holding midfielder in world football. With carrick as the main stay of our midfield from 2007 to 2013 we reached 3 finals and 2 semi finals in champs league. He isn't a dominant midfield type but the work he does and way in which he keeps the ball moving is priceless to united and has been for nearly 10 years. i'm afraid fresh you are clueless

{Ed025's Note - its not just fresh though vinny, i think we have probably seen the best of him now mate but for an outsider like me he has done a sterling job for many a year, but i feel he has never had the recognition his skill and loyalty has deserved..

07 May 2015 21:19:31
Clueless is the word of the week on here. I have never said Carrick is anything but excellent, but he would get found out in Europe with a lot of movement around. I don't really care what your opinion of me is, but at least I can disagree with you in a dignified manner.

08 May 2015 02:18:02
De Jong is more like a Makelele than Carrick in what he brings. A move for De Jong wouldn't excite the fans, but he is good at what he does. I could see him coming on in the 80th min when LVG wants to protect a lead.

08 May 2015 08:16:44
Zinadel

There are quite a few players in the league that can do what de Jong does. Nothing special but a physical presence. I can understand on a free and a squad player it might make some sense depending on the wages.

He is definitely not comparable to what carsick does as carsick pulls the strings siting where does and most things sort with him.

08 May 2015 11:34:30
@Fresh

Carrick has been found out against lot of movement around him? The only time I've seen that happen is when Barcelona faced us in those finals and that team with Xavi iniesta and messi ran rings round everyone. Carrick has held his own against the very best in Europe.

You also need to consider that he has had practically no partner in midfield for the last 5 years. He is a one man army there. Midfield is a team game and we've played the likes of Jones, Cleverley, Anderson beside him.

Our transformation into a regular European semi final team after Carrick's arrival is no coincidence.

08 May 2015 15:51:44
Zidaniel

agree that de jong would bring a physical presence and IMO we could do with that in the midfield, especially as we look like we are physically bullied by a number of teams this season. Personally would like raingolan as a better option ; tough tackling good distribution and can win back the ball. For years we have always had steel in midfield as well as flair everywhere else.

07 May 2015 15:24:23
Just a quick question for the Ed's or anyone else. How well do you think Depay will do next year and do you think he will start or just be a squad player during his first season?

07 May 2015 16:29:14
I think he'll be a hit!
With a pre season under his belt, he should be a 1st team regular! Highest goal scorer in the dutch league, why should he have a season for introduction to the EPL?

07 May 2015 16:45:01
I would think it all depends on the player if he hits the ground running or not in pre-season. I suspect he will play a big part next season. He has some of the things we have been missing in recent games, namely pace and directness.

07 May 2015 14:08:39
The liverpool page is a great read at present.

To those not bothered in going over there i can give you a gem.

Stickie: 'I do expect lallana to reach double figures next season (10_15 goals)'

:')

07 May 2015 15:22:13
that is not the most far out thing they've ever said. Lallana is a good player, definitely a 10 goals a season player

07 May 2015 14:56:05
He's scored 5 x goals for Liverpool so far in an injury-hit season.
Which is one more than £60m Angel Di Maria, and one more than Radamel Falcao (Harry the local loan shark does better deals than that).
Glass houses and stones springs to mind there.

07 May 2015 20:20:45
Also on the liverpool page depay has gone from being the next bale to not being fit to lace sterlings boots

07 May 2015 13:57:01
I'm pleased we have moved early for a winger, but isn't £25m-£30m (probably the top end), a hell of a lot of money for Depay, I mean last summer we would have probably got him for half that amount?

When you consider Arsenal didn't spent much more on Sanchez, it seems we just love spending 33% more than any other club would be willing to pay. If Barcelona wanted him I doubt he would have cost more than £18m.

07 May 2015 14:03:03
What, we have signed a player and your post about it is negative? I can't believe this for one minute!

Isn't the reported amount about £22m, sounds about right to me.

07 May 2015 14:09:46
who cares how much money its cost to buy depay he's a excellent young player who will be a good addition to the squad.price doesn't matter its not your money so who cares

07 May 2015 14:10:37
Can't you just be happy we have signed one of the best young talents in the world?

If we signed him last year it would have probably stunned his development. He needed another year in the Netherlands.

Yet again you have jumped to the worse case scenario and assumed that we have paid the higher end of a journalist guess at what we have paid. I've heard that we paid 22.5M for him and suspect that is closer to what we have paid. Either way how much we pay for a player is of little consequence to me as long as we get the right players in.

07 May 2015 14:13:20
The guy is going to be a top class player IMO. So whilst the money is a lot, I think it will be a sound long term investment for the club.

I bet Brenda is having kittens lol.

07 May 2015 14:18:18
The fee is believed to be £22m, Spurs were knocked back with a £17m bid last year. In January PSV said they'd only listen to offers for considerably more than that now, IMO £22m is steal when you take into account he's the top goal scorer in the league from the wing and is already established in the international set up. There's just no winning with you.

07 May 2015 14:17:30
Being reported as just over £20m, rising to just under £24m with addons.

07 May 2015 14:22:37
Oh Beast. you do crack me up.

A signing before the transfer window's even open. At least smile at the fact Liverpool didn't get him.

07 May 2015 14:25:24
£22 million for a young winger who has scored 21 in 28 games, a hatfull of assists, scored 3 at a World Cup and is seen as one of Holland's most influential internationals at this young age is a snip.

Hazard had only scored 36 in 147 for Lille when Chelsea bought him for £32 million.

Memphis has already achieved much more.

07 May 2015 14:25:42
Depay is no Jelavic or Alex Bruce , that's for sure :))

07 May 2015 14:28:16
beast- last year depay wasn't the best player in his league nor was he the top goal scorer for his club

who really cares how much we buy a player for? i couldn't care less how much is spent on the team as long as its the right players being signed.

07 May 2015 14:47:09
Yeah sod the money until the point it comes to " we know we needed a right back or another CB but because we spent so much on other players we couldn't strengthen there this year". Oh well, £30m on a player we could have signed for £15m last summer, who cares. Well you will when it means we can't strengthen properly because of it.

I actually said I am pleased we have signed a winger, but I would have expected to pay a lot less. Shaw, Herrera, ADM, Fellaini, Mata, now throw in Depay. Any other club would have saved at least £60m collectively on those players, probably enough to buy Bale.

So the consistent over spending actually does cost us, I just wish we had better negotiators as we could strengthen other areas of the team rather than lining other clubs/agents pockets.

07 May 2015 16:20:24
Beast you have literally no clue how negotiations went, nor do you know how much the signing has actually cost. You've twice stated £30m which quite frankly is a number you are picking out of thin air. You clearly have an agenda here to make this out to be overspending but you don't actually know how much he cost. I just really don't understand your mentality here.

07 May 2015 17:57:03
The BBC have said £25m-£30m. I would imagine that means £25m with an extra £5m dependent on performance/appearances etc.

We have to get our information from somewhere and as I am clearly not an executive of either club, a lawyer involved in the deal or any part of the deal (like 7 billion other people), we have to rely on the news!

How do you know anything that you haven't seen with your own eyes?

07 May 2015 18:09:00
We could have got him for 15million last season beast. So if reports are true and it's 22 million, it's only 7 million more, which isn't going to make much of a difference to our budget.

I wouldn't say we have spent over his price he is the hottest young prospect in Europe ATM what other 21 year old has had a better season?

And the area's you mention that needed attention first, we might already be in negotiations for. I'm happy for once we have started early makes a change

07 May 2015 19:09:45
Negative nellie is on the case again😅 we have secured a good signing in an area that needs improving and we will sign players for the other positions that need strengthening. The prices reported vary greatly. Beast you should send your cv into the club and go in as a trouble shooter tofix all that is wrong, but I think if you spend too much time there you would have everybody employed at the club reaching for the phone to call the Samaritans. try looking at the positives its good for the soul😅

07 May 2015 12:54:06
Few things regarding the Depay deal.
1. No mention of Januzaj moving other way on loan? Anyone know if this will happen?
2. Good to see business done early and quietly. Hope continues.
3. How do people see this effecting potential attacking signings this summer?

I think if another attacker(bale) signs it will surely mean the end for Di Maria. For whatever reason it has not worked for him and can't see him with Depay + another (bale) in same team. Personally would let him go to PSG as I think that is where he wanted to go in first place and Bale would be a better fit at this stage.
In other areas I hope Gundagon signs quickly too. For me this would still leave us wanting a cb and rb.
This wind leave us well equipped to challenge next year with potential line up
De Gea
New RB( clyne), new CB (hummels), smalling, shaw
Carrick, Gungadon, Herrera
Di Maria ( bale), Rooney/ RVP, Depay

Also good strength in Depth with
Jones, Rojo, Blind, Valencia, Young, Mata, Fellaini, RVP as competition for places

{Ed025's Note - mata and possibly fellaini...the rest are dutch elm mate..

07 May 2015 13:14:11
Still need a replacement dm for carrick

07 May 2015 13:14:58
I agree Tonebags.

I think Di Maria probably would make way for Bale, but who is going to get into a bidding war for him? And apparently PSG's interest has gone.

The wide positions is technically sorted now, Bale is a luxury but a luxury that we couldn't miss out on should he move for a good price.

Gundogan and Hummels I suspect will be United players soon in a double deal, I think it will be within the next 3 weeks. And lastly Clyne, good English right back who looks likely to sign soon for me.

All business could ideally be done before June 1st with a deal for say Bale taking a bit longer. Another striker would not be a bad move such as Benteke.

07 May 2015 13:19:09
Great signing IMO. The lad will fit in so well at the club. He has everything in his locker to be a top player for us.

:)

07 May 2015 13:26:10
To be honest, I'm not excited about Gundagon. It's obvious that replacing Carrick is the most important thing we need to do midfield wise, and Gundagon is more suited to Herrera's role. Depay is a good addition, and hopefully will give us more of a direct threat from the wing, but the next jobs are rb, cb, and cdm.

07 May 2015 14:05:46
i don't think we will move for bale now

07 May 2015 14:26:20
If he is available we will, we can't let him go to Chelsea and I am sure we would even move Di Maria on to accomadate him.

07 May 2015 15:03:56
I'm sorry to go on again guys but, and I'm going 'Belgium' again on this one, but tielemans of anderlecht is the perfect replacement for carrick? Young DM is ideal and still young enough to grow into the role and fit van gaals philosophy? Great things are expected of this guy! I know you all think I'm Belgian mad, or a secret agent/scout for Belgium or something but it just so happens there is some very talented players coming out of Belgium? A few years back I'd probably be speaking about spaniards and the the talent they had and still do? In England we do have some great talents but English teams don't want to lose them so put extortionate prices on them so that's why clubs go abroad? But on the other hand it's great to see some of the players that do come over! Watching Ronaldo week in week out was a absolute joy but watching Rio in his prime was just as pleasing! Sorry for the long post? Have good days lads!

{Ed002's Note - Not going to happen.

Tielemans has attracted interest from Chelsea, Atletico Madrid, Arsenal, Juventus, Napoli and Marseille. Chelsea have actively been speaking with his club very recently but would need to send him on loan for, I imagine, two years or more. Atletico have been speaking with Anderlecct and the player likes the idea of a move to Madrid. I am sure the deal can be finalised.}

07 May 2015 15:40:39
fresh
i don't think its quite as easy as that.
di maria was bought for big cash and i'm sure everyone at club will expect big things of him next season .
i would be very surprised to
a. see di maria leave this summer
b. for us to sign bale

07 May 2015 16:57:51
I love the signing of Depay.

I'd like to add Clyne,Benteke and Gundogan.

Then for CB, if it was down to me I'd go for Stones at Everton (he is going to be excellent) with Evans going in part exchange plus Adnan on loan for a year.

Scotbos (USA)

07 May 2015 18:39:54
I don't believe we will sign Gundogan

07 May 2015 12:18:00
just a point on the pele, maradona debate i was lucky enough to watch maradona a couple of times and first touch , balance ,control and vision wise i'm not sure its possible to be any better than what he was.
for sheer talent he was the most gifted footballer there has ever been imo

he also got fouled every time he got the ball, in the modern era where your not aloud to make a tackle he would of been unplayable

{Ed025's Note - i agree jred..

07 May 2015 12:28:51
If is was playing in a 5 a side team and I had to choose between Maradona and Messi it would be Maradona everytime. If Romario or even brazilian Ronaldo had the protection that Messi has today and stayed out of nightclubs, played in the same Barca team I think they could achieve the same that Messi has. Just my opinion.

07 May 2015 12:30:22
You need to watch Messi mate.

{Ed025's Note - hes good jmb...but if carlsberg done footballers..it would be maradona mate.. :)

07 May 2015 12:53:38
*cough* Georgie Best *cough*

{Ed025's Note - love it Mpez...

07 May 2015 12:57:44
I've watched Messi a lot jmb. I've also seen a lot of Maradona and others. I've seen Maradona win a world cup with a very average Argentina and where one man can make a team (he nearly one 2 but for a bit of bad luck and probably off his face). He also won what he could with a fairly average Napoli team in what was then the best league in Italy. I don't know for sure but I reckon most of Argentina would favour Maradona over Messi too. Both are great but given a choice between the 2 I'd rather watch Maradona play and I'd pay more money to watch him play than Messi.

07 May 2015 13:11:52
Maybe some of you should talk to older fans, a lot will tell you that Duncan Edwards was better than everyone!

07 May 2015 13:12:20
Supasub, but have you ever seen Georgie dribble, dribbles better than myself hanging over the toilet with this horrible hangover :(

07 May 2015 13:16:14
Well the best comment on here that I have ever seen is Pele wouldn't get a game for Hull.

This is one of the greats, if not the greatest. Bobby Charlton says he was the best and we would all say that Charlton would get into our team.

07 May 2015 13:27:27
I have Mpez and he could be included of course. And shano we will never know. We can only go off what people have said about Duncan Edwards. We could be here all week though couldn't we. Di Stefano, Garrincha, Zico, Best, Edwards, Cruyff, Chunky Ronaldo, skinny Ronaldo, Romario, Rivaldo, Plating, Gerd Muller, Gullit, Van Basten, Batistuta, Riquelme, Rivelino, Hugo Sanchez, Zidane, And that's just the attacking players that come into my head. I'm sure sure Lfc fans would add Gerrard to that list but I'm not so sure myself.

07 May 2015 13:30:10
Actually Fresh, Charlton says Duncan Edwards was the best.

07 May 2015 12:00:23
Ed002 I read a great post from you on the Liverpool page where you gave your opinion on br's signings and a summary of his YTD I would be interested in your opinion on lvgs ytd and signings. And also if you have any update on your previous post where you said we had interest as depay and gundogan stories have developed somewhat since your original post. Thanks in advance if you have the time or inclination to answer. Cheers. Ken

{Ed002's Note - I did it a few days ago - So, once more:
Blind - A lot of eyebrows were raised on the continent because although Blind is a good player he is very slow for the English game.
Powell - Just doesn't look like it'll work at Manchester United for me. As a vesatile squad player perhaps; as a first team regular no.
Luke Shaw - Season blighted by injury, but very significantly over-priced when purchased.
Rojo - Over-priced when purchased and came with baggage. Not a great season and might be gone in a year perhaps as the team continue to look to improve - but a decent player.
Herrera - A very good player who has done well but again, very over-priced.
Valdes - A good deal for both the player and the club - you may see a lot more of him next season.
Mata - Was never going to work with Mourinho at Chelsea and both soon realised that. Nice guy and a very good player. Manchester United need to make the most of him, which they are not doing. They need to work around his weaknesses.
Januzaj - A young talent of which much is expected. A loan to PSV next season and then a big decision looms for whoever is manager.
Falcao - Poor season, very significantly over-priced with loan fees and wages - a financial error of the largest magnitude I can recall.
Di Maria - Still struggling to get a decent run in the side, significantly over-priced when purchased. Again a very good player.}

07 May 2015 11:47:51
Hopefully a sign of things to come. Get out buisness done quickly. Great signing by the way is Depay

07 May 2015 12:02:24
Expect Clyne to be next :) I am quite curious to see how this boy will turn out. He looks like he could be something special but then again so did Nani. Might turn out to be a world beater hopefully.

07 May 2015 12:02:45
It's a damning indictment of my mental age, that my first reaction when I read the news was to ring up a Liverpool supporting friend who was 'certain' they would sign him to say nah nah, nah nah, nahh nahhh, before hanging up with no explanation.

{Ed025's Note - respect danny.. :)

07 May 2015 12:11:13
Danny,

I just did very similar and the response was

'Don't know much about him to be honest'.

If they had signed him he would be the best thing since sliced bread, love it!

07 May 2015 10:07:03
Ed's what happened to the post about Messi earlier?

{Ed025's Note - cant say i seen it jmb, have you tried the other united pages mate?, maybe another ed has put it on other posts or somewhere..

07 May 2015 10:23:36
I can't seem to find it mate. It was the one where I jokingly asked you if Ross Barkely was better than the Messiah.

07 May 2015 10:32:37
Yes he is :P

{Ed025's Note - you must be joking mdb, he played like carlton palmer this season mate.. :)

07 May 2015 12:10:41
i mentioned a certain footballer who got done for doing illegal substances and I think it may have been flagged JMB

{Ed025's Note - the site has to be careful anon due to legal issues mate..

07 May 2015 14:21:42
Yeah it was tongue in cheek, thought it may get flagged. No harm, now I know for future reference. Loving your current involvement btw ED.

07 May 2015 08:14:17
I don't get the Pele or Maradona thing Ed. The trouble is they played at a time when the standard was far inferior to what it is now, especially Pele.

If you put the current England team (as bad as they are), against the England of 1966, the current one would win by double figures. The game has advanced, science, physicality etc, Players like Pele and Maradona had the natural gift of course, but with the aid of sport science, higher standards of competition it's a different game. The fact that both Ronaldo & Messi make current players look like rank amateurs who drank a few pints before a game, shows me they are in a different league. Pele was like and adult against children, Messi & Ronaldo look like they are superhuman against adults.

It's the same with boxers, athletes etc. World records getting broken left right and centre because of the advancements in sport and the sheer effort that is needed to reach the top with so many people competing.

Pele was the best in his generation, but he probably wouldn't get a game in a PL team if he had a time machine. Maybe if he transported as a child and his raw ability could be harnessed, but a 25 year old Pele wouldn't get a game for Hull nowadays imo.

{Ed025's Note - i dont know how old you are beast, but im suspecting fairly young as i hear that a lot from people, the fact is we will never know mate. its a myth that the likes of pele and maradona were not fit, and if they were playing now they certainly would be. boxing experts think ali is the best boxer that ever lived, and myself im certain that mayweather should never be mentioned in the same breath as hagler, hearns, leonard or duran!, and as good as tiger woods is he will never be as good as nicklaus even with the superior equipment they have today..well thats my view..

07 May 2015 09:20:46
Pele wouldn't get a game for Hull!!
Now that is some statement Beast. I sort of get where you are coming from in general , but everything is not "better" now because players are faster and stronger.

If English teams and players , in particular , spent a bit more time on skill and technique rather than just athleticism we would be in a lot better place now in footballing terms.

Pele had a "gift" , and became an athlete to go with it. These days , its the other way around. We take athletes and try to turn tem into footballers.

Its not exclusive to this country of course , but you get my point.

I think its a lame argument to discredit sportsmen from a bygone era on grounds of sports science alone.
I think Ed my have hit the nail on the head when he suggested it might be an age thing!

Now who would you rather have Beast. Nakica Jelovic or Pele? I know what my answer would be.

All hypothetical of course. We will never know )

07 May 2015 09:59:27
If pele had the same training and developments we have today he would be up there with the best

07 May 2015 09:46:48
Just have to look at some of the tackles that Pele and Maradona had to receive and not including the ones they evaded. Messi would not have lasted 5 minutes. I also have my opinion on the medical help Messi has received. And those 4 boxers in that generation ed. can't see it being repeated. I could picture Mayweather amongst those 4 but probably hanging from Haglers mouth.

{Ed025's Note - what a division that was supasub!, the younger generation think footy and boxing was only invented 10 years ago mate.. :)

07 May 2015 09:50:09
Just to add to the boxers. I'm not sure who could have beaten Tyson in his prime before his trainer died. Devastating. Anyone on the receiving end of those hooks would even make me wince watching it.

{Ed025's Note - he was a monster supasub, awesome fighter, and like suarez did like a little taste of an opponent at times.. :)

07 May 2015 10:12:37
I don't know Beast I feel this is a very naive view. I've had the privilege to play against some former professionals as I've played a very high standard of football from the age of 16, most notably was Chris Waddle. Not exactly a world beater but at the age of 50, no one could get near him in the middle of the park. The only thing that's changed massively over the years for me is fitness, pace and some technique. the natural gift you mentioned previously only comes around once in a generation and to say Pele wouldn't get into a premier league club is one of the stupidest things i've ever heard.

07 May 2015 10:22:07
I have to say that I agree with the Beast to an extent. I think if you put Pele and Maradona at their peak against Messi and CR7 it would be very one sided. Not because of sheer abulity but simply because of the advancements in the sport have changed beyond belief.

It's like saying your old Nokia 3310 has the same capabilities as your iPhone or that an atomic bomb is just as devastating as a nuclear bomb. Both in theory are the same type of device but one has outgrown it's prior generation. Each of these things may have been a class above in their era but things change and things advance in all industries, be that materialistic items, technological equipment or humanoid traits.

In a few decades there will be new 'super players' who will surpass the feats of Messi and Ronaldo as well. Times change and the world changes with it. It's pretty academic really, it's just science.

07 May 2015 10:22:58
Ed & Betty - I don't think its anything to do with age, even if you were old enough to watch Pele in the flesh you won't be able to directly compare what you saw then to what you see now in my view. Memories are deceiving a lot of the time, it's ridiculously hard to weigh up all the evidence with such spans of time and the difference in overall standards.

I am not for one second demeaning what Pele achieved and how good he was compared to others of his generation. I am simply saying that the criteria of what makes somebody good and excellent has increased as time advances - it's an evolution/technology/scientific/competition thing surely.

It's all to do with our own perspective, but if you ask the question who is the best footballer that ever lived? And have no "for their time" attached to it, then Messi would run rings around Pele. It's not Pele's fault and arguably he would be better than Messi if he was born in 1990 and had the same opportunities, but he wasn't and that is why we are cleverer than cavemen (on the whole anyway)!

I'm in my mid-30's by the way. As you both say we will never really know for sure - but its good to debate and speculate. Betty - I would pick Jelavic. Seriously, I'd have Alex Bruce over Bobby Moore as well, which sounds ridiculous but I think the advancements in the game have been that great, competition and money has made it so. That's not to say watching football is any more enjoyable now of course. It was probably more entertaining watching boxing in the old days than it is today as well.

07 May 2015 10:25:41
Ronaldo hangers on on this page.
Fans should relinquish washing messi. He is the greatest to ever play the game. And there is no debate between ronaldo and messi. Messi in the biggest games uses his maximum ability and scores such incredible goals. Ronaldo is a potent goalscorer. Messi is just superior above and beyond. Genious

07 May 2015 10:27:15
Just want to add that it's a good point about the game changing you made below Ed25. Players of today wouldn't stand a chance in the 60's or 70's when it comes to the rules of the game and physical aspects. Maybe Pele or Maradona would have been even better had they not been allowed to be chopped down and roughed up so much, maybe they would have flourished in this non-contact sport we are moving towards.

I know Messi and Ronaldo wouldn't last 5 minutes if they went back in time to when men were men and football was a real mans game, so all things being equal its just too hard to compare.

{Ed025's Note - it is beast, unfortunately we will never know the answer mate, unless we can get that delorean from back to the future up and running.. :)

07 May 2015 10:42:59
Beast , so an we safely assume then that LvG is a better manager than Sir Alex?

You are right , memories can be deceiving. So can over simplifying an argument :)

Alex Bruce over Bobby Moore? I've heard it all now.
I suppose you would prefer Ashley Young over George Best too?

{Ed025's Note - the young also think they invented sex betty.. :)

07 May 2015 10:43:22
In the then Era of football hmmmm, tackling from behind is just one of the many things that has changed. Beast i think you should reconsider your stand. Messi and CR7 wouldn't be able to get on the ball back then! Kicks and elbows flying left and right.

{Ed025's Note - and that was just the warm up mdb!.. :)

07 May 2015 11:10:28
I suppose its like comparing apples and oranges.

Betty - LVG would be shocking if he was managing Newton Heath mate.

{Ed025's Note - i dont think hes that great managing the current squad to be honest beast.. :)

07 May 2015 11:22:40
Showing your studs used to be an art form.

{Ed025's Note - ahhh..the good old days..

07 May 2015 14:06:39
I think JMB and Beast might be the same person!!!!!