Manchester United Banter Archive October 07 2013

07 Oct 2013 21:26:35
So the Belgium coach has said fallaini will be available for both of Belgium's games

He only has a funky wrist, I didn't realise you used your hands to play football ;)

Delayed his op untill after the internationals

Or delayed until MU can bring in another midfielder in January? We can only hope ;)

His wrist injury is far more serious than you think.

Can you imagine sorting that fro out with one hand, it would be like suicide.

07 Oct 2013 19:18:57
Hello lads.

So our only midfield buy of the summer is out until december. so now we are same as last year.

Now who is waiting for paul scholes to come out of retirement?again.

Or we shall see giggs over and over again? I m sure even after this kagawa will not be used at center midfield.

And in january, we have already been told that its very difficult to buy. god knows what will happen.

Scholes couldn't be registered until January anyway (I believe) so that's very unlikely.

Don't get your hopes up rodio17.

We won't sign anyone in January, we'll be told it's too difficult or that our targets are cup-tied and we'll limp along this season with the flawed squad we have.

I do agree though with not spending for the sake of it in January. Instead, we should've tied up 3-4 new signings in the summer, when everyone else gets their business done.

It is very difficult to sign players in January for many reasons already stated and especially overseas players in a world cup year. If we sign anyone, it might Coentrao and someone domestic but non of rivals would be willing to sell, so can't see much happening and better off not to panic buy and wait till after the world cup.

Dembele would be a good buy but doubt spurs would sell to us and Levy would screw us on the deal.

Fellaini is apparently fit for Belgium this week.

07 Oct 2013 16:52:55
Januzaj now included in the champions league squad

07 Oct 2013 16:29:21
One player I've been impressed by is Hernandez. He is a hard worker and rarely complaints about the lack of chances he's getting in the team. When he came to United, even though he scored a lot of goals in the 1st season but his passing was dismal for a top level player. But since then you can see in his game that he has worked so hard on this.
He holds the ball well and can make passes now. In the 2nd season he passed the ball usually back or sideways but it was improvement on his former self. Now if you look at him now he actually passes the ball forward and contributes to the attack. He's still no finished product but I have confidence that He'll keep improving. If only cleverly could learn from him. Cleverly has got the engine but just doesn't seem to improve his passing.
I wonder sometimes if chica was in the Barca team how well they could have used his pace and positioning.

Raph - I agree he has worked on his passing and touch, which have both improved massively. However he has lost that yard of pace that made him special and he is so frustrating getting a web site all the time. He also rarely seems to get on the end of great balls in the box, he is always that few inches away from connecting with a last ditch slide or leap.

I think his time has gone and he will always be an average squad player for us or a great by for Newcastle/Sunderland.

07 Oct 2013 13:19:29
Gents,

I've had a few discussions with you from time to time about Cleverley and you'll know I don't rate him, I don't see him in a Utd team or an England team.

My problem which I think quite a few of you have too is simply that he was hyped up to be something a lot more than a squad player so now it's difficult to accept him as just that, a squad player.

Quite possibly he would flourish and actually benefit from a move to a lesser team as it's almost hampering his career at Utd.

Also with Moyes I can see where a lot of you are coming from, he makes me think of the times that England have employed the likes of Graham Taylor and Steve McClaren.

Neither did anything to justify the position in a huge job, in playing style or experience of winning stuff, both failed miserably.

Not to say Moyes will but the more I see him with you the more it looks a crazy decision. I think any other top six team fans would be gutted if he was appointed our clubs manager. That's not to say it won't work but I actually thought you may have persuaded someone like the guy at Bayern Munich to take the helm until you got the right man.

He had that team playing some special football and winning too.

Good luck for the season guys.

I dnt think your far wrong stoner

Makes a change to get a sensible post from a supporter of another club. But, although cleverley for me isn't good enough to be a regular starter, I am more than happy to have him and his attitude in our squad. Also, I hope Moyes works out and he'll have my 100% backing, but only time will tell. Was it the best idea to let SAF pick his successor rather than decide as a club? Who knows, it didn't work with Sir Matt but I hope it does this time. I just hope he settles on a better system than 442 and finds a way of bringing the joy back to watching United again.

07 Oct 2013 11:33:59
I did log in ed, think it had logged out again as I kept getting disturbed while typing it, sorry.

{Ed002's Note - Obviously we are not going to repost it.}

No one can leave their views with it on the other page ed, that was a waste of time if no one can reply.

07 Oct 2013 11:14:50
I know its been mentioned already but I think the relationship between Rooney and RvP isn't the best.

They seem to be competing against each other rather than working with each other. They seem reluctant to pass to each other and if one is greedy and takes a shot when the other is in a better position then they stare daggers at each other.

I also can't remember seeing them celebrate a goal together this season.

I get the impression that Rooney feels RvP has taken some of his thunder, and that RvP being a hard working professional is unhappy with Rooneys behaviour and attitude.

This brings me to our other problem, how do you fit two strikers into a team with out leaving yourself exposed through the middle.

I think old Brendan has worked out a system over at Liverpool for fitting both Suarez and Sturridge into the team. His 3412 system makes the most of his strikers and his teams lack of quality wide players. When Coutinho returns it will also allow him to play in his best position. As much as it pains me to say it he has worked out a way of making the most of his players.

I don't think that system would be best for us but we could do something similar. That way we could get the best out of our two top class strikers.

I wouldn't move away from having a back four though just yet due to the lack of experiance we have. If you are to play with two strikers then the defence will have to push up high up the pitch to close up the gap between the midfield and the forward line. That means there would be no place for either Rio or Vidic as they lack the pace required to get back. I would play two of Smalling Jones and Evans, with Rafael and Evra or Buttner as full backs.

I'd then play a three man midfield with Fellaini playing as the deepest and he would drop back into the centre of defence when under pressure with the other two centre backs would move out toward the full back positions to cover the wider areas if the full backs are too far forward. So we would then effectively have a back three when defending but would have a an extra midfielder when on the front foot.

Next to Fellaini in midfield i'd have Carrick and Cleverley atm, but come next summer i'd like to see a couple of more forward thinking high energy midfielders who can drive forward and defend. We could get Ander Herrera in January with his buy out clause, then in the summer we maybe able to get Gundogan as Dortmund have Sahin and the young lads in Bittencort and Lietner who can play that position. So Gundogan I think could be achieveable if we don't upset Dortmund by penny pinching.

We could then have Kagawa or Januzaj playing in the hole behind Rooney and RvP.

It would take some serious investment but it would make us a very solid team with lots of creativity. But we would need a new CB a LB and two top class midfielders. I'd like to see Mangala as the CB as his combination of pace and power with good passing mark him out as a great option at the back, he is also versitile and can play in midfield or at LB so he ticks all the boxes. But he will cost over 20m possibly 25m+ as Porto are know for demamding too dollar for their players.

At LB Coentrao is the obvious option but seeing how much he might cost then maybe the less expensive but full of potential Alberto Moreno would be a better option.

In midfield we need top class players, Gundogan and Ander Herrera would be top of my list but would cost over 60m for the pair. But Koke, Clasie, Maher, Kroos are good options as well.

Shappy in an ideal world we get a transfer window next summer and add the following players:

Draxler
Koke
Lars Bender
Coentrao

We will be in good shape for long time if we could pull this off. we would have Janusaj and Draxler on the wings and the midfield would be sorted.

Shappy's posts are always the most lucid and well-thought on here and a joy to read. Appreciate the potential players we could bring in but for the time being we need to concentrate on those players in the current squad.

The point about 'having' to player 2 up front is exceptionally valid though.

This is where I despair a little for the obviously un-rated Kagawa though. let's face it before Saturday evenings emergence of Januzaj (and yes I appreciate he should have 'emerged' last season!) we were looking like a team playing 442 without an effective winger in the squad!

As Shappy says Rogers has recognised a similar lack of out and out winger talent at Liverpool and indeed maybe across Europe hence altered his style accordingly.

Moyes could do the same thing though by playing a 4-3-1-2 with Kagawa in the hole behind RVP and Rooney. In a match situation this will naturally default one would hope into becoming a more fluid and interchangeable front 3 anyway. Especially given Rooney's ability / want to always come looking for the ball.

In Rooney and RVP we have two of the best strikers in Europe who can play the '9 and a half' role, i.e. either as the out and out striker or as the supporting striker. RVP isn't really seen as anything other than the No. 9 role but such a smart player can play anywhere in an advanced position.

Adopting a 3 pronged attack allows a more stable 3 man midfield with as Shappy suggests Fellaini protecting the back 4, Carrick being the playmaker in essence and Cleverley being the runner.

Moyes has already clocked Young ain't United class though its worrying that he thinks Nani is and Zaha hasn't been given a chance yet.

But he also clearly doesn't rate Kagawa either so perhaps Rooney in the hole with Welbeck or Little Pea upfront?

What i'm hoping we haven't bought Fellaini is the second attacking role. If you're 1 nil down and its throw the kitchen sink at them for the last ten mins fair enough but its as a Defensive Mid where Fellaini's good physicality and rather than lack of craft can be good to best effect.

Shappy

we can always play a 433 with Rooney, Janusaj, RVP as the front 3 and 3 midfielders behind them and no wingers.

We have looked the best when we have played 3 midfielders and are not disjointed in terms of the space between the strikers and midfielder.

I remember a post match interview last season where both were gleaming and claiming how they enjoyed playing together and both considered themselves as number 9.5's which worked well togethe.

Not ssaying something doesn't seem quite right at the moment but you'd think something would've had to have sparked the situatio.

Or it ccould just be coincidental that they seem to have spent the last 6-9 months taking it in turns to be in or out of form?

07 Oct 2013 01:33:03
Why is everyone taking like we should have beaten Sunderland 5-0, they put up an extremely good fight against us yesterday and clearly had something to prove there fans, after the Di Canio fiasco.

Sunderland happen to be bottom of the table at this moment IN OCTOBER, just as we are 9th at this moment. What I'm trying to say is the league standing at this time of year bears no relevance at all, as we all know in football things change fast. We are 6 points behind arsenal at the top, and only 4 behind chelsea in 3rd, and only 3 points behind city. So our worst start in over two decades, put into context doesn't look so bad, especially given that we have had a rediculously hard fixture list, a real lack of transfers (blame who you like for that), and the obvious turbulence caused by the completely unexpected change in managers.

Finally, I agree with everyone who is saying give Zaha a chance, he looks a very good prospect, and our midfield is desperate for some creativity. Also why has Evans not had much game time he is so calm on the ball, and we are desperate for a bit of stability in defence, and rio cannot play as many games as he used to.

Morning jase. You are right as most of the teams are losing points. But you also asked a lot of valid questions about Evans zaha Kagawa not playing, and that is why a lot of fans are frustrated.
Also, our style has been rubbish so far. I didn't expect an easy ride against Sunderland, there again, they have a good of minus 11 so they have been conceding a lot. We made hard work of it.
our game is slow and predictable.

Jase I completely agree, the negativity on here is shocking, having someone at the helm for 26 years is a very long time, people can't just expect the new man to come in and perform miracles, whoever it could have been. Moyes has to be given at least a full season and a summer to be able to build his own squad. i'm not saying he has'nt made mistakes since he's been here but what do people expect, I think he's starting to learn from his mistakes e.g not having ashley young near the squad and giving game time to adnan and hopefully he'll see his mistake in not giving kagawa a chance in his natural position. I appreciate the attacking, free flowing football has'nt been evident yet but please give it time and judge when Moyes has had time to put his own stamp on the squad, not after a handfull of games.

Afternoon Guys. Nomidfield, I can see where your coming from, however last season the pace of our game was not much quicker, and our attacking fluidity left a lot to be desired. The only discernible difference I can see so far is that our defense was more solid with Evans in it, and also RVP was on top form. However this year Rooney looks fitter, more committed, and generally back on form, so its swings and roundabouts really.
Wiggy I hope your right about ashley young being dropped and Adnan getting a chance ahead of him, but at the end of the day it is a squad game, and everyone needs a chance to prove what they can (or cant) do. But yes he needs more of a chance to put his stamp on the squad for sure.