Manchester United Banter Archive September 07 2013

 

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07 Sep 2013 20:52:15
What's the general opinion on our proposed £1b deal wiv Nike?
Am I exaggerating in thinking Glazers or not, we compete with all the sugerdaddies as well as kick ass commercially.

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Commercially, nobody can touch us when it comes to sponsorship.

Its just a shame that none of that £1B will end up on players.

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We are a lot richer than people think, seems malcom's pockets have a difficult zip system. Looks to have got Woodward wrapped round his big american old man finger as well

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I expect us to make a couple of signings in January, and a big signing in the summer.

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So you don't think Nike will want certain players?
< And that's not just another ronaldo post, I just feel think that amount of money twinned certain nike sponsored players etc.

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Nike would want a winning team with large fan base and global reach mate. it is the whole point of being associated with our brand. This theory of our sponsors pushing for players is not even realistic as they don't get involved.

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I don't think Nike really care all that much about player, they have several top athletes, and while having Ronaldo in their Flagship football sponsor would be great, I just don't think they would part with the extra $$ in order to get him signed.

Roger Federer, Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan. they're hardly lacking on sports celebs.

I also think that the difference between Ronaldo signing and him not signing in terms of shirt sales won't bring them in as much money as you think they will.

Most stores sell names on shirts by the letter, of which that money I believe is split between the Premier League (or whatever league the lettering is of) and the retailer.

so if you look just in terms of shirts, it'll be a case of a fan getting a shirt regardless, the only change would be the name on the back of the shirt, in which Nike won't benefit on.

yes more shirts may well sell, but if they need to lay say £30M down in order for that to happen then why would they do it? the returns will not generate £30M and once the dust has settled nobody will really care as much seeing as its the shock factor that sells the shirts.

Quite simply put, Nike don't benefit from players they benefit from coverage and results.

Also, although Ronaldo is the biggest footballer on their books and they would like him to play for their biggest club I seriously doubt the Nike bigwigs are contemplating the deal.

the ONLY way I can see any investment coming in for Ronaldo would be if we told Nike we want £1B + a contribution towards resigning Ronaldo - however I think the complications in what were to happen if he was to choose a different club or not leave Real may leave the deal in a bit of a mess.

I also think if we were to propose the Deal they would say no.

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So no one feels we will be massively competitive with all this backing? I know we are more capable than our trolls think, but. Could this not put us in a position to pay what is needed for future world stars? In the same way psg, real, Monaco etc.

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Not many of us trusts the ownership. Having the money does not mean they will spend it. As they say fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

As a fan when you feel like they are feeding you rubbish and keeping you in the dark is not a good way to win your trust.

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I would imagine that investing that level of money into anything they would want to know our ambition going forward, what are our plans to grow into markets where they can make the deal worthwhile. If I recall there was a 6 month exclusivity window for Nike and the club to discuss a deal before we could look around. I would speculate that there are other teams becoming more ambitious and growing on a world stage that may have caught Nike's eye, Bayern winning in Europe and strengthening again playing stylishly thrashing Barcelona in the process. If Nike look at both clubs which is the one with ambition? Yes we have a global fan base like no other however we don't have the magic on the pitch we once had when Nike started the original deal or in comparison with our 2008 team. Our transfer strategy this summer has hardly been exciting and encouraging the potential sponsors. Fellaini is a decent player but not a global name, plus if Moyes creates a hard working faceless efficient team who would buy into that, how many will buy a Fellaini shirt? Nike are nobody's fools and if I was looking at us at the moment I would be a little nervous at a long term commitment. They probably will commit but if they are to spend £1bn on kits would they be better paying say £1.6bn and owning the lot, then they could develop us as they wished and likely see the real quality of player Manchester United should expect. No it won't happen but there is not the lustre around us at the minute, the sparkle of greatness and that is what sells kits.

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Red Man, I said a few days ago that MU can now speak to other kit suppliers. MU and Nike have been negotiating since February. MU are the biggest brand by some distance. Nike will be very desperate to tie us down to a new deal and GM Motors have set the benchmark. There is no reason why Nike cannot work with both MU and BM, it isn't only MU that they deal with currently. I suspect a deal will be struck with Nike and that they will help to get Ronaldo to MU next summer if he hasn't signed a contract extension. Obviously they will not help directly, but I am sure they will increase his endorsement payments and he could be the new face of GM Motors. It's certainly not out of the question.

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Red Man, do you seriously think the Glazers would sell MU for £1.6bn? Not a chance my friend.

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It was figuratively speaking. So, it is ok for the Glazers to under offer for players and expect them to sign but then state there is no way the Glazers would accept a lower offer for the club as it wouldn't meet their valuation. {Ed044's Note - The owners are not making those decisions.}

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Red Man, the Glazers do not make offers for players. That's the CEO's job. Just like it was Gill's job and Kenyon's before that.

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Ronaldo new contract 90% done according to duncan castles.

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Mick, Ronaldo's contract has been agreed in principle for weeks, but he still hasn't signed it. Until then there will always be a slight hope, albeit minimal.

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Sydney

The Glazers would ultimately approve offers especially large ones. Don't tell me they don't approve our strategy and guide on how much is available.

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REDMAN
One of the Glazers is supposedly directly involved and all deals will have to go through him. Read that somewhere that he is consulted on a daily basis by woodward and DM.

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There would have to be some sort of ball park figure that Ed Woodward will need to work with Red Man I agree. Perhaps that amount is only altered in exceptional circumstances, IE a top player becoming available that plays in a position we need to strengthen? Don't get me wrong there will be restrictions, that is obvious, but I think the plan was to bring in two midfielders and a LB this summer. With Everton wanting a staggering £18m-£20m for Baines it was good business to move for Coentrao on loan. Shame we didn't do it earlier on in the window. Coentrao on loan, then buy Fellaini & Herrera, seems simple to me.

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Red Man there's is zero hope of the Glazers selling United they are sucking on the golden teat of football, would you ever sell up a money making machine that just keeps getting exponentially bigger

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Ed44

The point was not about the Glazers making offers but more to point out to Sydney that he sees it as ok for us as a club to put lower offers than people are valuing their players at but then baulked at the possibility that the Glazers would accept an offer of a lesser value for the club. If it is unlikely the Glazers would accept then why would Bibao.

{Ed044's Note - I can see why Ed02 stopped discussing finances on this page. It seems to me that there are a lot of people discussing a subject that they do not fully understand and throwing numbers that have no basis about. I am happy to let you get on with it as it looks like completely harmless nonsense.}

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Shahram, Joel and Avram are connected to the club more than the other family members, but even they like to stay in America and live their lavish lifestyles while Ed Woodward seals deals.

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"that he [Sydney] sees it as ok for us as a club to put lower offers than people are valuing their players at"

Utter nonsense. When have I EVER said that? I have clearly said that I am disappointed the club never paid for Herrera. Do you even read my posts Red Man?

Although you do realise that '''EVERY''' football club on this planet will put in lower offers than what people are valuing their players at. It's called negotiation.

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Sydney

I believe it is Joel and you don't need to be sitting at OT to approve spending on transfers. Nothing wrong with it as all owners of clubs have a major say on how much you can spend on a player.

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Sydney

I understand negotiation but as I posted yesterday supply and demand. If we want someone enough we have to pay and we didn't, whether that be owner restrictions or the CEO or both is the question. We needed quality and baulked at the price

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Red Man, I agree with you. We should have just paid it and got our creative midfielders sorted. A very good one at that.

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Shahram, I agree with most of that. However I do not think it's a case of how much to spend on a player. It's a case of how much to spend on that particular player. I don't think there is a ceiling, I think each player is individually valued and the club do not like to pay over the odds on that particular player. For example, I do not think Moyes could have went to £30m for Baines, I think the club valued him at £12m and didn't want to go too much above that. I think MU didn't want to go above €30m for Herrera, but would have spend £40m on Cesc if he was available. If you see what I mean? Of course there are restrictions, I am not blind. But I think there was sufficient funds to get Herrera, Fellaini and Coentrao on loan.

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27 mill for fellaini?

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07 Sep 2013 18:44:56
Ed, I don't mean to complain and I don't want to be band, but please look down the Manchester United Teams page and see how all of the posts are basically invisible - no one looks there and no one replies. We used to have brilliant debates about team selections where as now it is just more and more stupid banter with scousers and things. Please please please make the page how it used to be so it is more about football and the things we all like to talk about. {Ed044's Note - It seems that you are complaining mate. Teams have to go on the team pages. If any get posted elsewhere we have to delete them.}

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Fresh,

The eds have said multiple times than you can post teams just not in the layout they used to be in.

if you posted like this;

4-2-3-1; DDG - Rafael, Jones, Vidic, Jones - Fellaini, Carrick - Kagawa, Rooney, Nani - RVP.

Then you can clearly see who is playing where and it doesn't take up lots of space.

I'm sure there wouldn't be a problem with posting like this if you tried it.

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I am complaining, but I do really think the pages are being spoilt and there seems to be less debates.

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Fresh

I posted a team and formation this week on the banter page and nobody commented

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I agree Fresh! I used to love prediction the line-ups and everyone discussing their views on potential line-ups.

It also gives other supporters an understanding about the tactics we may be using.

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I do agree their used to be a lot of debate about the formations and it was great.

however, you can still have the same debates all you have to do is change the way you lay your team out.

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07 Sep 2013 18:17:49
Really hate international breaks, I don't think anyone is interested in them - not even the players half the time. Really looking forward to getting back to proper football and seeing what our boys can do! Come on United!

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But at least it gives or injured / unfit ayers an extra week to get back

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My friend, being Irish. In recent times I can't stand the international break. I try to play lots of golf when there's no United action. End up even more frustrated. lol

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I agree Patzi have lost all intrest in international football

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07 Sep 2013 16:13:57
Chris the REDman,

Bless you little fella, I look silly, hmmm, best you re read that text of yours the other day. I was actually welling up.

That's almost on a par with GDS2 calling me stupid with his crazy banter Police posts. Maybe you should re read yours to GDS2 and take that much needed break from the site you keep threatening.

You guys are the best in my eyes and nicely avoided Sydney! Pity Nani can no longer swerve around a player like that.

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That would be Nani with 3 Premier League medals? Silly, stupid, there's plenty more adjectives that would describe you. As you are so fond of asking questions, you never answered mine. Remember, the one about history and tradition, the one about your club being classless and lacking in any morals. Call us whatever names you want but we will never evoke repulsion in quite the way your club does.

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Lol bless him, work must be slow these days for him, people just dnt use taxi's like they used too

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AJH

I for one will be waiting to see who Marcellus and for that matter a lot of other plastic Chavski fans support once Roman is done playing with his toy. I believe they will root for the sky blue then? let's face it, one club with zero history can only be replaced by another.

Its just funny how the dippers/bitters/Chavs/Gooners kind of gang up like small time crooks and post on here at the beginning of the season. A few months down the line Business as Usual and they go back into hibernation. I can see Marcellus and LFC giving each other imaginary high fives, some unity there!

Deeps.

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You are obsessed with me and chris, it's sweet. Love you marcellius kiss kiss.

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, knows our page better than his own. Maybe it's a immature case of being nasty to the 1 u actually fancy. xxx

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Lol, deeps echoes many a post I've tried to tone down for publishing. Unfortunately, they NEVER make it thru!

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07 Sep 2013 13:52:50
Quick Question for Eds and regulars etc, - my mate (scouse) told me 2 very interesting things last night. Firstly - apparently when Fergie left he told Moyes that Kagawa was a special, special player and the future of the club, and secondly that Moyes told Kagawa before the community shield that he was going to use him very sparingly until after this international break.
I was just wondering if someone could verify if one or both of these things is true

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Kagawa was always going to start later than everyone else. Also with our tricky start it's been difficult to slot him in as he isn't yet match fit. Perhaps we will see him get 60 minutes in the Palace game. Then another hour in the West Brom game.

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It's easy to see that Kagawa is the future of the club along with others if we keep hold of him. Only 24 and has buckets more skill than most our other players at his age.

I haven't heard what you're mate told you Jaxer but it's certainly believable after the countless times SAF praises Shinji last year and said he'll improve massively this year once accustomed to the club and the EPL. Possible future number 7 shirt bearer if Rooney stays with the no.10.

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The problem is kagawa is better than the players around him (Rooney and rvp not included). He makes excellent runs and cleverly, carrick, Anderson, young, Valencia fail to pass him the ball or when he has the ball they fail to make the quick runs to allow him to play quick one twos or through balls. Just look at how slick the interplay was when he was at Dortmund.

He is so good that Dortmund did not miss goetze when he was out with a broken leg a couple of seasons ago. If moyes builds around kagawa, not only will he be a massive marketing tool, he will be a world beater.

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07 Sep 2013 13:33:13
I know it's a long way away but with Klopp rating Kagawa so highly do you think they would consider a swap plus cash deal for Reus or Gundogan next summer?

I love Kagawa but now fathead is staying I just feel he is wasted out on the left, Reus would be a better option there IMO.
Or a swap for Gundogan would also be a great move as Carrick isn't getting any younger.

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There will be big competition for Gundogan's signature next summer.

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I can't see dortmund letting Reus go, and if they do I imagine they'd want £40m+

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Kagawa is worth more than Gundogen

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Patzi, I don't agree, Gundogan has a certain something about him and over the last 2 season I have watched him time and time again and he never fails to stand out. his retention and use of possession are not his only abilities but his vision for a pass and ability to tackle make him, in my eyes an all round midfielder, and at the age of 22 he is only going to get better.
Now I am not saying he is better then Kagawa but we need an all round midfielder more so then we need a Creative type player.
I would love to have both in the squad as both would be excellent, but I feel if we had Gundogan here, He would be a key player for us.

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Fair enough jamax, but I watched Kagawa in a similar judgemental way when linked wiv united first. As I have Lewandowski, Gotze and Gundogen (Reus admired too). Out of the 4/5 he is my least favoured, I base my personal judgement on consistency as well as potential and age. No doubting his ability. But please wait for the Kagawa plant to flower before comparison, as I feel your research is a little 1 sided.

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Ouch, how could I forget Hummels and Subotic being of interest too!

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I have watched Kagawa a lot and I know of his ability when given the chance to show it, I believe gundogan would be more beneficial o have in our team than Kagawa is all I am saying, Maybe if we change our style the other would be true but playing a 4-4-2, 4-4-1-1, Kagawa doesn't have a stand out position, he isn't a striker, he hasn't get a game ahead of Rooney or Giggs and is not at his best out wide, its for these reasons why I think Gundogan would be of more value to the team than Kagawa

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07 Sep 2013 12:37:11
Sydney!

I know you're prone to making crazy predictions but you guys to win the league. Hmmmmmm

Is this going to be on a par to last seasons, we will beat Chelsea and City on the way to winning the FA Cup.

Also read the other day that you were outed for being a Chelsea fan?

Finally Syd, what are your predictions for the length of the new contract Bebe will be offered if Nani get's five years for playing like that.

Five years inside for impersonating a professional footballer would have been more apt. IMO ;-)

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Good banter, but didn't we stroll the league last year? Oh, but that doesn't count does it?

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Mate u really need to stop now, u are looking very silly!
Crazy predictions? Never bet against united to win the league, but I wouldn't bet against Chelsea exploding and mourinho being out before April.
Tell me how does Terry still get in your team alongside the ever mistake and slow Cahill, talk about a pair of CB's stealing a living for playing football, mind u of all the things Terry could and has stolen, a living as a football player is the best we could hope for.
p.s nice of him to bottle it last friday and allow Lukaku to take the flack for missing his pen, 2008 still in his mind u think?

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Drivel, we smashed the league last yr. And have Improved significantly in signing Fellaini, a player perfect for us. Valencia is already showing form of old, and Rooney looks in great shape (gashed head aside) and Kagawa shall show a more settled side of himself this season. Coentrao will provide us an alternative to Baines, rotating wiv the ever dangerous Evra.
With regards to Nani, only a Chelsea fan suggest offering no contract to a player who in their inal year. It's win win for united in his case, firstly it stops his leaving for pittance in January or nothing next summer. Secondly this new contract could prompt a 'new spring' in his step, and expose the Nani of old that is unplayable on his day. Unfortunately I expect Chelsea to be our closest rival, and unlike you, I offer true honest opinions of our rivals. But my respect for them gets tested when unlucky enough to come across people who let their jealousy cloud their judgement.

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LOL, Bebe cost us around £5m to date. Probably received half of that back in loan fees. Torres has cost you £80m to date. Luckily for you though, you are bankrolled by an oligarch so money is no object.

We all know where Chelsea would be without the one billion invested by Roman. Somewhere between division one or three.

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Chripy chirpy. Two wins at home against no bodies and defending with 11 against us have you boys thinking silly stuff.

Not worried about you boys, it will be a manchester thing this year with the north london club more of a concern.

Will be amusing if you don't even get a top 4 four finish, bring on another new manager I guess. Benitez might be available:)

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07 Sep 2013 10:30:11
Eds, am I banned from this site? I am an LFC supporter and always have been, I am respectful to all people and never offensive. I have sent in a few posts that were not offensive in any way, pure banter sprinkled with some humour. If no posts are allowed on here that highlight uniteds current state in the league and as a club, what's the point in having a 'banter' site. Surely the supporters are man enough to go with the banter . at least they always used to be?

.ps sent from my sick bed where I am being treated for war wounds from the crimea, or was it from two seasons ago, I can't remember?

{Ed044's Note - It looks to me like the Liverpool and Man Utd supporters are useless in contributing to any sensible banter and most posts get deleted very quickly when abusive responses are sent in.}

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Tel surely you are suffering from Vertigo?

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Fully understand ed, but there are some witty characters on here who can have their banter without being offensive. We should all remember that even though we are your staunchest adversaries, true LFC supporters will always respect the history and great achievements of Man United ( even if we do like to have a bit of playful banter at times ).
To all the united supporters, a simple message : 'Come on lads, show the Eds that we don't have to get offensive with each other, we can be respectful to each others achievements, yet still have a little banter with without anything EVER getting personal. When posts become offensive, we are all lowering our standards. let's have a bit of a laugh but keep it respectful eh, like real men! '

Fergie and Dalglish were huge competitors, and Kenny constantly took the p*** out of Fergie, but they both had huge personal respect for each other, and still do to this day.

Must go now, my stomachs playing up again with my old war wound, a Zulu spear in the ribs, but will have to stop laughing at poor Uniteds plight with Dithering Davey. I've tried sucking nine lemons a day but youve guessed it, I still can't take the smile off my face!

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Tel1949

Totally agree m8, one of my best m8's is and always has been a huge Liverpool fan, but in my defence iv never held that against him, although when I said that to him he did look a bit perplexed, apparently he's not been familiar with the word defence for over 20 years!lol

But you're quite right, true supporters can always have gr8 banter about the ups and downs of their clubs, it's only the minority that tend to spoil it, it's sometimes a good idea to laugh at yourself as well as others.

It's good to have a bit banter back and forth and I for one definitely enjoy it, so keep posting as 95% of supporters from both clubs have a gr8 sense of humour, pity about the 5% of persons.

Charla

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Tel, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't "dithering" Davey finish above Brendan last season?

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Tel, Kenny dog lead took the p*** out of your own team never mind Fergie! His questionable signings. Arguably put you back another 5 years. It's nice to see you retain a since of humour!
Chinese Whispers

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06 Sep 2013 17:55:05
Hey eds/everybody,
Just a quick question for ed044, Sydney or anybody else who might know, is there a possibility we could move for Herrera again in January? the reason I'm asking is he wouldn't be cup tied, gave an interview the other day in which he praised united I dunno how many times and also andy mitten of united we stand magazine said that moyes is very interested in Herrera and could move for him again?

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Dave, I do not believe we will mate. Bilbao will not budge on their asking price and if we were not prepared to pay £30.5m in the summer, then it's highly unlikely we will do in January. I do expect us to bring Coentrao in on loan though.

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Lets be honest I dnt think any1 knows Woodwards next move, not even him.

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I think we will move for Gundogan next summer and Coentrao in January.

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Sydney

It is the £30m glass ceiling that doesn't exist or we just stop bidding when we get to £30m. We won't even go slightly over it for Herrera from your post.

If Moyes identifies a player then Woodward should go and get him after all the "money is there" isn't it? We may not like a player or not think he is good enough but surely if Moyes wants Herrera that's what Woodward should do?

You never did answer the simple question on dividends yesterday or you tried to make it complex when a simple answer was needed

If we didn't spend big in the transfer market and profits went up notably and the Glazers decided to take dividends would the lack of spending increase or decrease the amount of dividend they could take? Increase or decrease which do you think?

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I'm not sure we need to mad on signings, unless the right player becomes available. I expect Coentrao to sign permanently in Jan. This would leave us significantly stronger. Fellaini is a great addition, and I recall getting abuse at start of last season on here when I made the 'sign him up' call, it didn't stop me and I returned with more admiration only to thrown to the wolves again after he butted Shawcross. But I do admit my favour drifted to Vidal and Veratti over the course of the season after watching them both on numerous occasions. Vidal being the EXACT missing cog IMO. But I now am more than happy to have the fro, and hope he does bully our opponents a bit. As I am a massive fan of the Robson and Keanes I witnessed growing up.
I honestly believe we have a very capable squad as it is, Coentrao is a more than capable alternative to Baines.

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Red Man, it's pretty simple really. MU valued Herrera at €30m hence the €30m bid. Athletic Bilbao wanted €36m and would not enter negotiations unless the €36m was met. It's not about not going above £30m for a player, it's about not paying over the odds for a particular player.

I answered your question regarding dividends yesterday. It was you who didn't reply.

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Red Man, for now the Glazers are not taking dividends. So like I said yesterday our summer spend had no bearing on future dividends. When our revenues rise allowing the cash flow to increase, the Glazers will no doubt start to take dividends. According to Andy Green, by 2016 our revenue will rise to above £500m. Surplus cash will rise to around £115m per a year. Now you can almost guarantee that dividends will be taken when there is that much cash available.

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Sydney

Up to now they haven't taken dividends but it could happen this financial year depending on results, looks like you don't want to answer the question do you? All hypothetically, so one word answer, increase or decrease?

On the £30m, you are telling me that our new manager has identified a prime target but we won't go to or over £30m to get him and yet there the money is there? Or is it?

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Or you could argue that we better have some of the best players in the world in our squad and be in line to win everything every year.

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Red Man, if there is a car that you really like and it retails at £29, 999. if there was only one left would you buy it for £35,000? MU value Herrera at €30m, Not €36m. I had hoped we would pay over the odds for a creative midfielder this summer so I am as disappointed as you are, but MU decided that £30.5m was too much for that particular player.

I cannot answer your question any clearer unless you want me to draw you a picture? The Glazers will take dividends IMO, but only when there is enough cash to do so.

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"On the £30m, you are telling me that our new manager has identified a prime target but we won't go to or over £30m to get him and yet there the money is there? Or is it?"

Red Man, well we know the €30m was there, hence the €30m bid.

Our manager identified Baines as our number one left back target, shall we have gone to £30m for him too?

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Sydney

It is a very straightforward question, so why draw a picture when one word is enough, but you obviously will not answer even hypothetically.

On Herrera, if the last remaining car is £35k and I want it, then supply and demand dictates the price, so if I want it enough I pay the price, did you do economics at school at all?

If Moyes wants him enough then the owners should support him and if that is the price and he is Moyes No1 choice then we should pay it, however the owners are not going to easily release that amount are they?

Dont believe me? read what the Mail said today, "Moyes, like Ferguson before him, maintains that the Glazers place no restrictions on United's budget. It is becoming an increasingly suspect soundbite"

Your defence, albeit subtle, of them is wearing thin, they have no excuses this last window and I have to doubt after this window whether we will see any big statement transfers in future until they are gone.

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Red Man, of course there are restrictions. All self sufficient clubs have restrictions. But that isn't the point. The club will do their own valuations on a player and they will bid that amount or less. When negotiations begin both clubs find a middle ground and a deal is usually agreed. Bilbao wouldn't negotiate. It was pay the clause or nothing. MU didn't believe Herrera was worth €36m so didn't pay it. However they offered €30m and wanted to sit down and negotiate. Bilbao refused. For the last time, I add hoped we would have paid the amount Bilbao wanted and I am disappointed we never, but the club clearly didn't value him at €36m.

I do not defend the Glazers at all. Not even subtly. I just prefer to stay impartial like Andy Green. Is he a defender of the Glazers?

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Sydney

It was an easy hypothetical question on dividends to answer but you refused and deflected a few times. Then you deflect again by talking about a third party. Impartial, seriously, it is obvious from every post where your leanings are, after all "the money is there" isn't it.

I am with what the Mail said, are you impartial on their comment as well?

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Red Man, the difference between you and I, is you let your judgement get clouded by your hatred of the Glazers. I don't, I can separate the two and look at things fairly.

You can be with the Daily Mail, I will be with SAF and Moyes and the FACT that we bid €30m for Herrera, therefore proves there is money and at the right price a player would have been signed.

I have said the Glazers are penny pinchers, this isn't anything new. We knew this before they bought the club. But there is money there. They just have a problem paying over the odds for some players.

You keep saying I am deflecting, but can I ask you how much in dividends the Glazers have taken in nine years? Like I said I expect them to take dividends 'WHEN' the cash flow increases. 'When' being the operative word.

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Thank you Sydney

Everything is very clear from your response

I judge based on actions, not hatred.

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For what's it worth, the glazers/woodward valuations are always much less than the selling clubs. So it is easy for them to justify not buying players. £28m for Fabregas? Why would barca sell him for that? If bilbao value their player at €36m then why would they sell. Him for €30m?
Time for people to see what glazers are doing. And time for them to realise that they can't go around shafting other clubs. Their tactics are clearly not working. And in the process, they are dragging the name of our club thru the mud. {Ed044's Note - The Glazers don't put values on players mate.}

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One comment I wish to add on the above posts is that Sydney is right that dividends have not been taken by glazers but they have taken cash out of the club (shares sold and not all cash going to club being one case and others openly known) {Ed044's Note - Rubbish mate. As the owners of the club, the shares are theirs to sell. If they sold all of the shares in the club then all of the money would go to them and none to the club.}

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Ed044 I concur you are correct as owners that is their right. My view was bore solely out of my belief that the money raised should have all gone to paying off the debt saddled on the club when the glazers took over and reduce interest/refinancing costs. Totally appreciate that from a business sense this is a no go for a whole host of reasons but had my red coloured blinkers on. {Ed044's Note - I am not really the right Ed to discuss this with but I do know that the debt is being managed, and there is no benefit to the owners to sell shares to pay off the debt.}

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Nomidfield, our second bid for Cesc was £34m. There is rumour that there was a third even higher bid (don't know if Ed044 can help with that?) So not sure where you got the £28m from? Secondly, it's the CEO's job to decide whether or not to pay what a selling club wants. That is his job.

Bookedredmole, As much as it pains me to say, whatever the Glazers raise when floating the club is their money, not the club's money. They are selling part of their asset. If they sold the other 90% of MU for say £1.8bn, then that would be their cash. Just like it was their cash when selling 10% of the club. {Ed044's Note - I can't help Sydney! you would need to ask another Ed.}

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Books, also £10m in dividends have been taken by the Glazers. The loans they took years ago of £1.66m each (total £10m) that was due to be paid back last year was taken as dividends.

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Ed044, thanks anyway, but 002 no longer communicates with the MU fans. Certainly not on the MU page where he would only answer MU related questions.

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Sydney last I had heard they hadn't paid the loans back so thanks for the info about how they cleared it, much appreciated.

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Sydney

You asked me above about when (when being the operative word as you put it) the Glazers had taken dividends and you didn't feel they would take them yet, until the cash flow increases. Then in a post further down you confirm they took £10m in dividends last year so not to pay back the loans.

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Book, I guess a Glazer defender would have kept that quiet, but like I have said to Red Man, I just like to remain fair.

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Red Man, the Glazers took £10m in loans six years ago, this isn't new news. Last year they were due to pay it back and instead put them down as dividends. So the money left the club six years ago, not last year. When I say start taking dividends, I mean taking them every year without fail. I see that happening a couple years from now.

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07 Sep 2013 06:03:28
6.) 06 Sep 2013 17:57:07
Gan/Ngiak,

It pains me to say this, as you normally speak sense, nevertheless. Can you please explain to me why it is "glory hunting" to be concerned by the lack of professionalism and ambition demonstrated in the transfer market this summer? Granted, I am past the point of caring about the summer's shortcomings now, but to label anybody who expresses a justifiable criticism a glory person is a one hell of a generalisation, built on the foundation of false assumption.

On the subject of "support and encourage" weren't you guilty of expressing your criticism at Giggs' continued preference in the starting lineup only several weeks ago?

Pot. Kettle. Black."""

dear sir
ngiak accepts your criticism
in response, both glory hunting and professionalism are mutually exclusive in ngiak's context
they are not describing each other
the post was in response to direct criticism of a new boss trying to resurrect good players and trying to start his career
ngiak believes we the fans are the key to a successful transition and
we the fans can destroy that too without good support
lets give them a chance
and as for giggs
again it's his opinion that he is way past his prime
ngiak is upset and unclear why giggs is preferred over the others who ngiak believes deserve a chance
like you clearly mention it's banter that everyone is allowed
you do mention that I criticize others and yet you have just done the same to ngiak and "generalized" ngiak too
well.
gan

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Eloquently put penguin, for the most part, I concede. I especially concur regarding your point on player resurrection, and share your concerns regarding Giggs.

I just feel fans have every right to be concerned at the moment, although imagine the closing of the transfer window will facilitate a transition from hysteria to unity.

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Giggs should be a back up player, for the back up players. lol

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07 Sep 2013 01:32:37
This isn't a rumour, but due to Woodwards incompetence, we're still in need of a top class midfielder. Don't get my wrong, Fellaini is a top player, but considering the links we've had with Fabregas, De Rossi, and Ozil and missed out on them all, we're still searching. If it was up to me, I would either try to tempt gundogan from Dortmund, or Hernanes from lazio. Both are real dictators of the game, and in my opinion would be great additions. What are your thoughts? Leave thoughts in replies cause I'm curious!

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I would add Vidal and khedria to that list to mate

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No doubt Ozil is a great player but he is useless to us due to playing the same type of role as Rooney and Kagawa, I for one don't expect Kagawa to play much as I don't think Moyes fancies him

I hope to god I'm wrong though

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Please God we are not going to spend the next 3 months listing all the midfielders we should sign in January. We've done it to death and based and what we have just seen, it's likely we will be disappointed

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I wouldn't be surprised to see just Coentrao sign in January.

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It's all ways difficult to buy players in January but Woodward and United have been made to look a bit daft so we may look to make a bit of a statement in Jan.
I lot may depend how we are doing

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I agree wiv Sydney and CTR, disagree wiv Pardoe. I expect only Coentrao signed, pending our performances and injuries. Kagawa will play most games too, and if Moyes 'doesn't fancy him' it'd just show him to be clueless (which he ain't). I think 3 games in is far too soon to write someone off.
I think Kags will prove integral to our retention of OUR title.

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I don't think we will sign Contrao or anyone for a matter of fact and will go through another very disappointing window. He will be cup tied and it is always difficult to bring in loan signings in the middle of the season and get much out of them especially when trying to get used to a new country, new league and a new team.

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Shahram, Coentrao wouldn't be cup-tied.

Also if the rumours of him needing to be consoled after missing out on the MU move, then I think he will be itching to leave.

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Shahram, Coentrao wouldn't be cup-tied if RM or ourselves go out.

Also if the rumours of him needing to be consoled after missing out on the MU move are correct, then I think he will be itching to leave.

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He is in there champions league squad and will end up playing some minutes, unless the rules have changed.

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07 Sep 2013 00:24:12
Did anyone see how Fellaini played tonight?

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I didn't see the match but have seen highlights. He played a lovely through ball in the build up to the 1st goal and had what was described by tv sport as an imperious performance. So it sounds as if he did pretty well! :)

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I watched the whole game and I don't know where that description came from. He did little to catch the eye. Witsel looked like the more controling influence in midfield.

Interestingly, the Belgian coach clearly doesn't seem to see him as a defensive midfielder. Witsel played deeper and controlled the game.

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He always puts in a good shift and did last night.

Hes a good solid midfielder and will give the presence we have lacked allowing carrick to concentrate on his long balls in which we are missing. With Carrick supplying them again and support from the wings its all good and plenty of supply for RVP, Roo and Welbeck.

People need to stop saying he's not as good as Fanregas and Ozil etc, he's not like them and was bought for a totally different role. We have Kagawa to be the creative midfielder so we are pretty much covered as we are with Clevs and Ando as back up so we are good!

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06 Sep 2013 20:38:15
Eds,

Just out of curiosity, why are the words "sly spurts" (but with the correct spelling) always edited into the words "a website"? {Ed007's Note - Because they stand for everything that is wrong in football. They fleece fans by manipulating the betting market through their headlines and encouraging people to bet they way they want you to bet. Just because it is on Sly doesn't mean it is true, they have 24 hours, 7 days a week of transmission to fill. Plus, do you go on Sly's website and post, or talk about, what is on our sites? Try it.}

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