Manchester United Banter Archive September 07 2014

07 Sep 2014 22:54:49
All the people who are complaining about how Manchester United needed to spend big on world-class players and let players who didn't perform now are now complaining that we don't have any home grown players in our squad.

United need world-class players and England only have ten players who can be considered decent- Rooney, Sterling, Sturridge, Chamberlain, Barkley, Walcott, Cahill, Baines, Shaw and Wilshere

Rooney - Really? Not these days for me.

Lallana and a few others could easily be added

08 Sep 2014 06:37:20
Lol Lallana really?

I'd say sterling was our only top class player, shaw and Barkley have potential but the rest are just average compared to our rivals, our best cb is Cahill, compare him to hummels? Compare Sturridge to aguero? Walcott to robben? The harsh fact is that England just doesn't produce the quality that the other top nations do

Diego mate you are comparing each English player to players from different countries.

Basically you are comparing a team with selection restrictions to an all start team with no restrictions.

Diego
That's a fair view mate
CTR
Mte lLallana is much better than the likes of chamberlain and Barkley who I think has great potential but looks a headless chicken at times

08 Sep 2014 11:11:07
Lallana better than Chamberlain? No chance. Better than Barkley? Probably not, and Barkley has time on his side. You Liverpool fans really do cracking me up sometimes.

08 Sep 2014 11:43:17
Tell how u have come to this conclusion reet? One decent season?

Mumbai my argument was that England simply don't produce world class talent, how many English players are world class? None. So obviously I'm comparing them to other countries as that was what the argument was about

08 Sep 2014 12:36:24
CTR
My reason ended up I the thread down below
My mistake

08 Sep 2014 12:53:58
Lol the irony of u telling me to stop bring biased is laughable bud.

This is me being unbiased ctr
if I was being BIASED then I'd say rooney is ***** **** **** ***** ****
If I'm being unbiased ill say rooney *****

P.S THIS IS A JOKE
-TO ALL ROONEY LOVERS OUT THERE

Om a serious note even before he signed for us I considered lallana to be a very good player
Everybody is questioning him because of his price tag

PMT, I think you are suffering f you think Lallana could be added to the list.

08 Sep 2014 13:24:56
Are Liverpool fans for real? Lallana top class? Come on guys, pull your head out of your ar*e. I'm a United fan and dislike Liverpool greatly, but the only real quality player England has right now is Sterling. The rest of the squad is made up of just above average and average players, sprinkled with youngsters with very good potential like Shaw and Barkley.

Lallana is 26 and before last season no one gave a toss about him really. He is a decent player but let's not get carried away.

Fair enough Diego

08 Sep 2014 14:07:40
Exactly brendan! I didn't see Liverpool fans screaming for Lallana b4 he was linked then he is and BANG! We have Al and reet to name a few calling him worldclass! Wtf?

I have no problem admitting sterling is currently the best english player we have.

08 Sep 2014 14:32:48
CTR

I'd like you to point me to the place I have called Adam Lallana WORLD CLASS
There is a big difference between WORLD CLASS and VERY GOOD

08 Sep 2014 16:27:38
YNWAReet, he is not even very good, he is a solid good but nothing more. Behave yourself!

Brendan 81
Agree to disagree mste

CTR
You need.to stop misquoting people, your losing all viability from me.

08 Sep 2014 17:53:38
Al did YOU not state '' Lallana will start for england and play a key role?'' wot have I misquoted when bringing that up?

Reet apologies mate my post was in genera termsl pal not u specifically, although I do agree with Brendan.

AL I thought u was not gunna post here till the end of the season? Well that lasted 2 hours lol.

07 Sep 2014 09:37:46
Very true that every player has his sell by date. Experienced managers will see them every day in training and can spot the start of the downward spiral. In the earlier years of Fergie one of the most important rules was when you win don't be happy with your lot go out and improve. Try to buy something even better that what you already have. For some reason we stopped doing this. Every year we go the same old story of " I am happy with the squad and there is no value in the transfer market." Then what happens, all the other teams who were not happy with their squads go out and buy to improve and eventually they catch up. It's like F1. Just because you Win the constructors title you have to improve the car or you will be caught up and eventually passed. This is what has happened to us. Standing still is going backwards.

08 Sep 2014 06:22:50
I think it was clear in Fergie's last few years that he was thinking of how to get the best out of what he knew would be his final squad, he injected some promising youth and then left the platform for a new manager to come in and rebuild as we are seeing now.

07 Sep 2014 03:08:27
I'm reading Soccernomics. There's a section in chapter 2 about Brian Clough and Peter Taylor's transfer philosophy.

1. Be as eager to sell good players as buy them. It's important to sell at the right time. It's important to notice signs of deterioration in a winning side and get rid of the players responsible for it before possible buyers notice.
2. Older players are overrated. Bob Paisely reckoned players were burning out by 30. Wenger sold Viera, Henry, Overmars and Petit for decent money - none of them did as well subsequently.
3. Buy players with personal problems at a discount and then fix the problems. (Balotelli?)

In Ferguson's latter years I think we pretty much broke all these rules.

07 Sep 2014 10:38:46
Do you really think that is what he wanted to do or was he restricted by the fund available.

Menez satisfies rule no. 3 so well.Ridiculous talent.

Id have to say I agree with it bar No.3. With personal problems they may not be so easy to fix so its way to much of a gamble to say spend 16 million on a player who could become good or could seriously disrupt the harmony of the team.

No.2 in particular we have failed to do. Many people will notice the likes of Ferdinand, Evra, Giggs Scholes, ect. played well into there 30's even while they deteriorated they were still the best we had, most could see we needed reinvestment in players particularly players who could come right into the first team and replace one of those aging players. Unfortunately we failed to do so and this has just increased the rebuild size we have on our hands. Nevertheless we will persevere and come out on top like always.

07 Sep 2014 11:44:21
So now u have the inside secret when are we expected to see u in a dug out lol.

07 Sep 2014 12:14:54
Based on that there's a couple in the squad who should be worried.

07 Sep 2014 13:13:18
To be fair, pea, in those days, without the advance in training techniques, diets and general lifestyle choices made by players of that era, then 30 was seen as past it. I think these days, if a player looks after himself, then 30 isn't the be all and end all by any means.

And whilst they had success, Clough also finished his career getting relegated.

Those rules are a nice guide, but they're not the law. Fergie may have broken them, but he had done plenty in the previous 25 years for this club, and built up enough credit in the bank, to allow for some mistakes.

There seems to be a certain revisionism creeping in about Ferguson. I've even seen some people saying he deliberately ran the team down, in order to preserve his own legacy. Seriously?

People have very short memories on here. I'd dread to think where we'd be as a club, if he hadn't been at the helm all that time - probably finishing in or around the top 4 and winning the odd FA and League Cup, and as supporters we'd probably have grudgingly accepted that After all, we'd have known nothing else.

Fergie raised the bar and our expectations to ridiculous levels.

All 3 points are good benchmarks to work from, obviously there are exceptions to be made as with pretty much everything.

I agree toward the end too much sentimentality crept in and I do think he was handicapped in the market. That said he did mess up quite a few deals towards the end, maybe the owners didn't trust his judgement on what was required at the highest level, SAF delegated too much to inferior people as he lost a bit of focus, natural considering his age.

Maybe the owners should have adopted rule 1 for Ferguson, the title 2012-13 covered up a lot of cracks, others lost it rather than us winning it imo.

Cantona was a perfect example of Ferguson adopting #3.

CTR - I'm retiring from my job so am available anytime!

AC Milan was an exception to the 30s rule but largely because the style is different. Taylor believed the age rule is less applicable to passing teams than to running teams. And yes, modern training and fitness regimes, do have a tendency to prolong a players career, but an interesting question would be whether there are still younger players coming up who would be better than your established 30+ers - but you're not prepared to make the change.

Forwards tend to have shorter careers at the top than defenders. So yes, a Rooney or a Van Persie may be superseded before, say, a Terry or a Ferdinand. In this respect the Falcao loan with an option to buy was a sensible piece of business, with all other acquisitions being 26 or younger. Falcao may not make in in the EPL - as any stock analyst will tell you, past results is not necessarily an indication of future performance. I would not be surprised if the option is not taken.

I have been a staunch anti-Glazerite believing the debt set us back appallingly. And I'm sure one of the effects of it was that Ferguson was no longer free to manage his transfer policy in the way he had before. But ultimately I don't care who owns the club, only that we live up to our name. If the Glazers have restructured the club finances to enable us to compete, and understand that the business is inextricably linked to success on the field, the okay, I'll temper my lack of enthusiasm for them.

StevieK

I agree with fergie having done what no other manager can do but I have to agree with people that his last 5 years post Ronaldo were poor in terms of decisions on players.

People tend to forget that the core of class of 92 were all there before fergie arrived and in many ways he was blessed to inherit talent coming through the ranks never seen since then by any club.

His purchases over the last 5 years of his tenure and the lack of anything special from the academy has made the transition much harder and uglier than most would have imagined.

I agree that his choice of players in the last couple of years wasn't great apart from Rpv of course. But I also think he wasn't given the money we seeing spent now! Also have to disagree GCU that the class of 92 were already there. Firstly when Fergie arrived most of them would have been between 11 and 12 years old - hardly already there - and giggs a bit older and it's common knowledge how Fergie went to giggs house to speak to his to mum as he was a schoolboy at city at 13/14 then you have nurture them and monitor their progress and them have the guts to play them. United scouting network was a mess before he gutted the whole club and set up footy schools and scouts all over the country and more importantly here in the north west as we were missing out on local players . City's network of scouts in and around manchester was better than ours . Fergie changed all that hence the Neville's, butt, Scholes, giggs, brown etc. Might have made some poor signings but need to give credit where it's due .

08 Sep 2014 16:10:06
In 27 years SAF did make the odd mistake (inevitably).
But he finished a champion, Clough finished getting relegated. I can't believe that so many question and criticise SAF after all he did for this club. I remember some of the years before him and grew up with Liverpool's dominance so I just feel lucky that we got him and had him for so long. Great times.

08 Sep 2014 16:37:29
pancho,

Robin Pan Versie?

08 Sep 2014 17:13:34
GDS, was RVP not a good buy? I don't know whether you're suggesting that, or you missed Pancho's proviso in his opening line. I hope it was the latter, mate!

I agree will red . I like you Stevie K haven't got a clue what GDS2 is on about!

08 Sep 2014 20:04:37
Pancho,

In your post you called him RPV, just adding some (misguided and non understood) humour to proceedings.

It means Robin's Pink Van - I thought it was a good buy! Yeah sorry GDS2 I didn't even notice after you pointing it out! Don't have the luxury of a computer so type all my posts on my phone I'm always making mistakes because of it when typing . Silly bunt that I am!

08 Sep 2014 21:14:09
My bad, GDS. Hate when you question someone for not reading the post properly, then find you haven't read it accurately yourself! For shame :)

08 Sep 2014 21:47:01
At least everybody was nice to me even when they thought I was being a moron. Nice when we all play nice.