08 Feb 2018 17:43:40
{Ed's Note - Shappy has posted a new article entitled, Players that would complete Manchester United's team
08 Feb 2018 18:14:45
Fantastic post mate.
08 Feb 2018 20:24:56
Agree with a lot of that . Still think Varane and maybe Justin Kluivert will be arriving in the summer though . Top post buddie đđ.
08 Feb 2018 21:05:45
I think Justin Kluivert might be a red herring. He prefers to play from the left, as does Sanchez, Martial and Rashford.
We have no need of someone for that role.
He has himself said that a move to us might not be in his best interests. With his footballing family he is more likely to make sensible choices for his career than those with no understanding of the world of football.
At the moment he is starting regularly for one of the top teams in his own country, playing regular European football at a club renown for developing young players.
He is only 18, he will stay in Amsterdam for another few years I expect, leaving when he's 21 to either a top side or a club that could be considered a stepping stone depending on how he develops over the next few years.
08 Feb 2018 21:11:07
Shappy Agree with almost everything. as you say there are no to many options for a RB. how do you rate Santiago Arias from PSV. I know that the Eridivisie it not as competitive as the Premier League, but he has prove that is capable to defend and he is not that bad when he goes forward, also he can cross which to be honest is something most of the RB have a problem with these days. He also said that he is with hunger for more and that he wants a chance in a top league. he is 26 which its not old, but also not young. any thoughts?
08 Feb 2018 21:25:57
Charlitos, I liked the look of him when he first moved to PSV and I thought a stint in the Netherlands would be a good stepping stone into European football for him. However, I think he may have stayed their too long and he hasn't really kicked on, he is solid, but is good at many things without being great and anything in particular. He would be a great signing for a Europa league team, or any team that might make the first knock out stage of the ECL, but not for anyone with title ambitions in a top league sadly.
08 Feb 2018 21:40:56
Great read Shappy, thank you!
For what it's worth here's my two-penneth.
If I was Jose I'd be looking at my summer recruitment and be thinking about how I could get the best out of Pogba.
For me I'd take a closer look across the City for an answer. I like the way Pep has one holding midfielder with two more progressive players just in front. He had Busquets, Iniesta and Xavi at Barcelona and he now has Fernandinho, De Bruyne and Silva at City. Getting control of the midfield is always vitally important in getting a stranglehold on the game and ultimately winning the match.
I'd be looking to predominantly play 4-3-3 next season, certainly in the big games anyway. I'd be looking to target another DCM to provide cover for and competition with Matic. Ideally a deep lying play maker that can control the tempo of the game and feed incisive passes forward into the midfield and forwards. Veratti would be the stellar choice but realistically I'm not sure how conceivable this would be. I've must confess I've not seen much of Jorginho but from what I've read he plays this type of role and he might be the more obtainable option. We were heavily linked with Eric Dier last summer and maybe he could be an option again depending on where Spurs finish in the league. In all honestly it would be very difficult to prise him away from Spurs.
To compete the trio I'd look to a more all rounder, box to box type player to play on the right. We've been linked with Vidal again and I think he could be a good option. Maybe his age and injury record could be a barrier but surely he's one worth considering. I know you've commented that MilinkoviÄ-SaviÄ is similar to Pogba but with a defensive midfielder behind them I think they could form a formidable midfield trio. By all accounts he's a physically imposing, technically gifted, hardworking and elegant footballer, an almost perfect blend of physicality, endeavour and guile.
It's the midfield area where I'd concentrate my efforts.
I agree we need cover and competition at full back. I really rate Valencia
(I know some don't), hopefully Fosu Mensah can return and get some game time, I think Lindelof and even Tuanzebe can also offer cover so maybe a right back isn't a priority. In terms of left back the jury is still out on Shaw and whilst I think Young has done an excellent job covering I think we need better if we're serious about challenging on all fronts. If I was Jose I'd make Shaw our principal left back until the end of the season to really see what he can do with a consistent run of games behind him. If he can maintain and improve on his current form then maybe we'd only need some cover in that area.
I think we're relatively well stocked at CB however we still lack that consistent presence and leader. All are injury prone which is concerning and if a top, top centre back became available (I'm thinking Alderweireld maybe even Hummels) then that should be given some serious consideration.
I get the impression that Jose preferred formation is still 4-2-3-1.
I think this is a mistake (especially in the big games) and maybe doesn't get the best out of one of our best players in Pogba. To make this formation really work I think we'd still need a top quality No 10. Lingard has come on leaps and bounds, his form has been terrific recently but I'm still not convinced by him at the highest level and I don't see him as a typical No 10 anyway. I see Sanchez more of a second striker than a No 10 if he was given that role (he'll predominately play from the left in my opinion) and where I think we need a deep lying play maker in a 4-3-3 I think we need a number 10 that can run the game for us in the final third and knit the midfield with the attack. I'm not sure we have this player at the moment. I hear Isco may become available in the summer and he would be worth with considering.
I have concerns about Pogba playing in a two (against the best teams) as the defensive side of his game is not up to scratch. He often vacates midfield, he doesn't spot danger and his positioning is poor. I think this would mean a change of role, especially in the big games and time on the training field. Jose would have to give him specific instructions on how he wants him to play and I don't get why you'd want to hamstring your most talented player! In this instance dare I say there may be a compelling argument to leave Pogba out in the big games for a more defensive minded and disciplined holding player, if Jose insists the way forward is 4-2-3-1.
In truth we probably need players in the squad to make both systems work as I have no problem with Pogba playing in a two against the lesser teams especially at Old Trafford.
In summary I think we have a really good squad and a few quality additions in the summer should see us challenging on all fronts next season.
08 Feb 2018 22:04:58
I'd steer clear of Meunier. He's awful defensively. I know that's the thing with modern day fullbacks, but I've watched him a number of times and he folds when players get at him.
09 Feb 2018 00:59:34
Shappy and Danny, thanks for your posts and writeup.
Indeed you both have good knowledge and sound views. When I read the above article/ post it was like reading from the newspaper weekly review - one that is professional and not that which is bias. đ
Ed thanks for posting that up. đ.
{Ed001's Note - we are very lucky to have such intelligent and articulate posters as Shaps and Danny, well articulate anyway ;-) it makes sense to put their posts up as an article where more people get to read them across the sites and through search engine traffic.}
09 Feb 2018 07:33:30
Compelling reading, clever writing - agree 666, line reading a newspaper. Thank you.
09 Feb 2018 08:31:55
Agree Ed001. Itâs like reading a featured article in a newspaper and yes lucky to have writers like Shappy and Danny. Also of course lucky to have Eds like yourselves who are all very patient and accommodating. Thanks guys đđ.
09 Feb 2018 08:22:59
Great stuff guys. Morning read on the way to work!
09 Feb 2018 11:44:49
Cheers guys for all the nice messages. I agree with Ed001. Articulate, maybe, intelligent, never. Lol.
Danny, I think your reply deserves a longer riposte.
I donât think we could play Pogba in the same way that City play Silva and De Bruyne. They are very intelligent players whoâs reading of the game and off the ball movement make playing with only one holding midfielder possible. Pogbaâs main area of weakness is his defensive reading of the game and his off the ball work rate. He is slow to see the problem and slower to react. The way Silva and De Bruyne work off the ball the close down passing lanes and press the space allows them to win the ball back before the play gets anywhere near Fernandinho. Plus Cityâs defence play a high line meaning Fernandinho is almost situated between the two centre backs giving a three man shield in front of the goal. The only place you can get at City is in the wide areas, but with pace in both full back positions how long you have to pick out a pass once your in that space is limited, plus both centre backs drop back quickly as well as Fernandinho covering any runs from midfield.
I donât think formation matters all that much if Iâm honest. If we play 433 with Pogba as one of the midfield three or 4231 with Pogba in the No.10 role then what has changed?
Where Pogba stands when not on the ball, that is all.
He shouldnât be standing around when not on the ball he should be covering passing lanes, pressing a player or moving to make himself available for a pass to either relieve pressure or to help build an attack. So formation isnât anywhere near as important as which players are on the pitch and what your tactics are on the day.
Personally against City I would play 343 with the wide forwards pulling wide to stretch them at the back, have our wing-backs man mark their full backs and have the centre of the pitch packed shutting off all space in the middle, our three centre backs should all play within the width of the 18 yard box. Make sure our wing-backs donât commit and stand up their wide players and make them have to cross into a crowded box where you would back our defenders to out jump any City player and win the ball. When we get the ball we would need to spring forward quickly, long diagonal balls out to our wide forwards then play early balls into the middle before City have chance to settle. Get our centre forward to make a run to the near post with the opposite wide player making the run to the back post. One midfielder bursting forward toward the centre of the goal. If the move breaks down you have three centre backs one midfielder and both full backs to cover. Sit tight and deep and hit quickly and directly at their only weak area.
I donât think we need to sign a box to box player such as Milinkovic-Savic, we have Pogba who is our record signing playing that role very well. Herrera can play that role well, we also have McTominay and TFM coming through who could play as more defensive box to box players.
I really rate Valencia and feel since Sir Alexâs retirement he is one of only a few players who doesnât deserve any criticism. However, he will be 33 by the start of next season and we have seen this year he is starting to slow down. If we are going to attempt to win the league next season we canât afford to carry players. City are raising the bar and we need to meet that challenge. I think we need a player capable of being his long term replacement, Meunier would be great as an attacking option, Tete would be a solid more capable defensive option. I see both Blind and Darmian seeking new pastures next season, and with Young turning 34 next season we will at the very least need cover for both full back positions, ideally we need players who can challenge our current full backs. Jonny Castro (simply known as Jonny) over at Celta Vigo is another option that should be considered, primarily playing at left back but equally comfortable at right back, he could be a two birds one stone option. That would leave potentially leave a few more openings for players such as Lindelof, TFM and Tuanzebe to cover at right back.
Either way for me it is a midfielder who can control games and full back positions that need addressing in the summer, then possibly replacing any key players who might leave.
{Ed004's Note - It'll be an interesting summer but I think we will see atleast 4 signings. I think it is a cert that at least 2 cm's and a lb will sign. Additionally, from what Ed002 has said Jose is not very confident with all our cb options and he still wants another attacker. A lot of players futures here are a risk such as Darmian, Jones/Smalling/Rojo, Blind, Fellaini, Mata, Ibrahimovic etc. I reckon an attacking lb (Ideally either Sandro, Ghoulam, or Tierney in that order) should be looked at because it appears Sanchez will play on the left and he loves to cut inside. Additionally, Jose seems to like having one more defensive fullback which is perfect for Mensah and would help Valencia (wouldn't have to cover as much ground offensively). If this is the case I can see why Bale is still a target. He is perfectly capable of playing out wide or drifting inside. A front 3 of Bale, Lukaku and Sanchez is very formidable and we would be able to rest and rotate them all (considering that 2 of the 3 are now 29) with Rashford, Martial, Lingard and maybe even Chong next season.
Now onto the main area of concern, the midfield. Hopefully, Jose, like a few of us posters, sees Pogbas best position as part of a midfield 3. The main 4 main links seem to be Weigl, Jorginho, Milinkovic Savic and Seri. I have seen very little of Jorginho so I'm not sure if I'm right in saying that him and Weigl seem to be the Matic cover/eventual replacement option and that would leave either preferably Milinkovic Savic or Seri as the box to box option (Vidal could also be a cheap short term option but I would only be for that if a younger players were signed in other positions such as cb, lb and cdm etc). Either way it's going to be a crazy summer with the shorter window and world cup hopefully we get our deals sorted out early. If we do look at a cb Umtitti seems a steal at his current release clause and Upamecano looks a top prospect as well, both mentioned in the Sharkopod and both very good options but if they were to sign I'd expect a cheaper midfield acquisition than Milinkovic Savic}
09 Feb 2018 13:21:38
Man I love all the response and posts. Great reading Allanâs ED004 too. đđ. Champions.
09 Feb 2018 14:09:11
Shappy
We might have to agree to disagree on Pogba mate. I really rate him, he's one of the most talented midfielders in the world and I think we're lucky to have him.
Sorry I didn't mean play him the way City play De Bruyne and Silva I meant more in terms of shape playing a three man midfield. In retrospect City and Barcelona were bad examples.
It's hard to put Pogba in a box and nail down exactly what type of player he is in some respects. He's almost unique. I see him as a physical, powerful runner capable of breaking quickly from deep and running ahead of the ball. He's a brilliant passer and his switching of the play is reminiscent of Scholes at times. He's a good dribbler, strong on the ball, he's also a good crosser. He can shoot, tackle and is decent in the air. I totally agree his defensive side of the game needs work. He's not great positionally at times, he doesn't sense danger and can often let players run off him and he doesn't track runners particularly well. I just don't see him as a No 10 where you often have to play in little pockets of space on the half turn. He's much better coming from deep in my opinion and I think he's just best deployed to the left of a midfield 3.
I agree that we need a midfielder to control games and the full back areas need addressing. I think we're pretty much on the same page though mate.
Anyway you better get back to your studies wouldn't want all this football talk turning your brain into candy floss. If there half as good as some of your posts you should have no problem getting a First. No pressure!
Ed 4 - great post.
{Ed004's Note - I think it's vitally important we get the midfield sorted before next season. Agree completely with your assessment on Pogba. The only midfielder in world football I'd consider over him would be KDB. It'll be interesting to see how Jose goes about fixing it. Will he get a number 10 and have Pogba sitting deep and not being tasked with bombing forward as much, will he get a deep lying playmaker to replace Matic or will he get someone like Modric to play alongside Matic and Pogba. Ideally, we would be looking to phase out Matic (Ideally someone like Weigl) and signing someone to partner Pogba in the box to box role. I think Jose teams will always be different than Peps. I can see us building a strong, fast and technical side more interested in direct football than keeping a tonne of possession and working away at teams until they finally collapse.}
09 Feb 2018 15:13:09
Completely agree Ed 4!
Interesting comments in Jose press conference regarding Pogba this afternoon. Reading between the lines I think he expects Pogba to be as diligent in his defensive duties as his attacking.
I think Pogba is a unique player.
Of course he can play anywhere across the midfield or at No 10 but I think he's got the potential to be the worlds best and maybe he just needs that platform and tweak in position to show it. It will be fascinating to see how his career and relationship with Jose develops at Utd over time!
{Ed004's Note - He didn't really give much away with his comments. At the end of the day everyone in the team has to put defensive work and commitment in. His comments on Shaw yet again were encouraging}
09 Feb 2018 16:49:55
Danny, I think we are on the same page about many things. I agree Pogba is a special talent and he has the potential to be the best in the world. I don't consider us lucky to have him, I consider him lucky to play for us. No one is bigger than the club in my opinion.
I think people get confused with Pogba. People see his as a more technically gifted and attack minded Patrick Viera, where as I see him as a slightly less technically gifted Zinedine Zidane.
Viera was excellent at using his size to his advantage, and he could boss central midfield. But he was excellent at reading the game and performing his defensive duties. He had a desire to do the dirty work and put tackles in and do the off the ball running as well as having the ability to read the game. He rarely switched off.
All these things are what Pogba struggles with and because of the comparison to Viera people think Paul isn't playing as well as he could.
I see him as an attacking midfielder who is blessed with size and strength like Zidane was. Zidane was perfectly capable of putting a defensive shift in, he had the physicality, he just lacked the drive to work defensively, instead he focused his efforts going forward. Just as well really as it allowed him to become one of the greatest of all time. Pogba doesn't know how to defend and he switches off too often, he hasn't got the defensive drive. He is a technically gifted player who happens to be over 6ft and powerfully built.
Ask yourself this, if Pogba was 5ft 8in, would anyone expect him to be making tackles and doing the defensive side of the game? No, yet as Makelele and Kante have proven you don't need to be 6ft to be a defensive midfield colossus.
I think Pogba gets unfairly criticized because to look at him you expect one thing and yet his skill set suggest he play another.
Pogba is good at running with the ball, and for that reason starting him deeper makes sense, yet when you start him deeper and he does break forward he leaves a huge gapping hole behind him for the opposition to waltz through if they can win the ball back.
At Juventus this was solved somewhat by playing three at the back, one of the centre backs would push up into midfield when Pogba pushed forward thus plugging the gap. If you want to play him like that the you will need to have a player ready to do the same. Be it by playing three at the back, or by having a left back who'll sit deeper and tuck in when Pogba moves forward. Or a defensive No.10 who'll drop in behind Pogba when he breaks forward.
Ed004, We could well see 3 or 4 come in or maybe more. I think midfield and full back will be top of the list. Other positions will likely depend on who else leaves.
I would steer clear of Bale and Vidal. Both have serious injury concerns. Also Vidal has some off the field issues that once upon a time you would accept as he was so good on the pitch, yet now his talents are waning and he gets on the pitch less and less often those issues become harder to ignore.
09 Feb 2018 18:24:05
Shappy - I agree with all that mate.
