Manchester United Banter Archive May 08 2014

08 May 2014 20:56:08
Hi what do u guys think about lack of Utd players in england squad. I mean we use 2 have so many players from utd players representing england but I gues now only rooney and may be jones( hope he is fit) is certain to go to brazil . Excpt tht I gues welbeck wil go but things would have been had jay rodrigz been fit.so what do u guys think is d reasn for lack of contribution frm utd twrds england national team.

08 May 2014 21:28:33
smalling will go rooney welbeck, jones if fit, carrick probably that's over 20% of the squad, perhaps that's why they won't get outta the group! cleverly & young will probably be spending the summer house hunting but not in Manchester, liverpool or London maybe in rochdale, bristol or Scunthorpe ;o)

With the exception of rooney the rest are fringe players.

Welbeck has looked good each time he played for England

Welbeck is pants and will be gone in 2 years to a mid table team.

GCU, welbeck has all the attributes to be a top player' apart from feet to ball ;)

Welbeck has never looked out of place for England. Has always done well. And he is good back up for us. Will never get 30 goals but if he was upfront all season would get 15 easy maybe 20. I will take that.

08 May 2014 19:34:21
I love Januzaj's comments about wanting to emulate Ronaldo, work hard like he did, work in the gym and copy what he does. Van Gaal I think will make him into some player.

He is a great talent, hopefully he will surpass Ronaldo. This remain to be seen.
The question is how loyal he is to the club?

He has said that he wants to play for us forever, that's the best thing that he could say.

Such a mature player for such a young boy, picks the right option 9 times out of 10, can't see him ever scoring the goals ronaldo does but I think he could be a future ballon d'or winner for sure. LVG will turn him into a superstar.

08 May 2014 17:33:38
Hi Guys

I think that the new plans to put B sides into the lower leagues is a good one.I think the youngsters will come on quicker by playing competitive football rather than play in the under 21's and under 18's league.It might mean that we don't have to send so many players out on loan.The only issue there might be is if it effects the players in the first team squad of 25.What I mean by that if players like Wilson and Powell are in the 25 can they still play for the B side.
Eds or anyone can you shed any light on this.

{Ed002's Note - It is far from being finalised right now.}

It's good for the big clubs.

JK92

The plan is far from a good one. It is receiving a lot of criticism and practically all lower league clubs believe it shows disrespect for them, and turns the lower leagues into a glorified version of the reserves, and they will not be able to keep up with the mega clubs.

It's quite clear the FA is showing a huge favoritism to the big clubs, and if I was a Peterborough fan ( or similar ) I would be pretty outraged.

I think b league will be great, will also get more people who support the big teams watching the lower leagues matches which will mean more money for the teams around them, I f0r one would love to see a lil utd b team tearing up league 2 haha

Its good for us and other prem clubs but for clubs of the lower leagues its not a good thing, the one thing that separates English football in terms of professional football is the competitive nature and professionalism of our lower leagues and with this new rule that could and will all change.
Even thou it is great for our club I am very against the idea.

It does not help because this only works if clubs put english players in there team all clubs obsessed with buying average foriegners if you buy the best all well and good so youngsters can learn brilliant there should be a limit off 4 foriegners in your team so more english players more youngsters that would be ace premier league the best don't think so look at other leagues loads from there own country

A radical overhaul of football is needed as the FA need to do more to improve the number of quality players available for England. But this is not the way to do it.
All this will do is ruin the lower leagues which is what makes football in this country so great.
Instead the FA and premier league need to look at foreign quotas and loan rules etc. to encourage the development of young English players.
The FA also needs to make drastic changes to youth football, the skills and mindset that is taught. There is lot that can be done before the framework of football in England is ripped up.

What about conference teams who will be further away from reaching the premier league or higher divisions? Hardly looking after grassroots.

A question on the B teams, what is to stop a wealthy premier club buying 11 Spanish players and playing them? Could the FA stop the B team doing that? How would that help English football?
Have the FA done anything to get more coaches into the game?
If we know the game is short of UEFA coaches why don't United run a coaching school pay for coaches and flood the local area to improve local kids? An investment in the future.

08 May 2014 20:32:56
Hi Ed02

I realise that its far from finalised I just think in principle its a good idea.I also think it would be a good money spinner for lower league sides but I take the point there is a long way to go.

{Ed002's Note - It would be crippling for lower league clubs. None will want it.}

I couldn't care about the lower league clubs, why would I, I support utd first then England so getting first team action for up and coming youth players in league 2 is good for utd or any big team and more importantly good for England, Spain and Germany have all the b teams and look at there set of players most there young players went threw the b teams, why should we hold our team back by staying loyal to a nothing league, league 1 and down are just pointless to me so let the b teams run wild

Reply to red man have you not read what the b team is? only allowed 3 none English players in the team, so 22 players in the team will be English

Red devil

No I haven't read the detail but in principle wonder how that can be enforced under European law and restriction of trade? Hence my question about young Spanish players.

The italians did it the eureopeuan cup was 3 foriegners why not we live in england youngsters is the way to go so clubs aren't going bust I don't want a b team but somebody has to stand up to prem league most clubs out off top 5 wouldlike an average foriegner instead off giving youngsters a chance

Southampton did not have a b team they took the plunge and put english youngsters in there team look at newcastle all french chelsea arsenal why premierleague say they don't care aboat england just money and champions league so i'm from shrewsbury and iff we missed out on promotion because chelsea b got promoted I would be pissed off because they can't c the future off young english players all brendan rodgers rubbish aboat english coaches how many get jobs from lower leagues not many so have some balls prem league say there's to many foriegners

08 May 2014 15:42:41
Do people reckon we'll still try get William Carvalho now the management has changed? He's got that aggressive, passionate tackling that we've missed since Keane. Has anyone seen the recent video of him slide tackling two players at the same time then getting up and running up the pitch after winning the ball? We need that type of player.

I think we will go for Shaw, Carvalho, Reus & a CB. That's just my opinion though. LB, LW & CM has been a problem for us for a while now and with Vidic and Ferdinand leaving, we now need an experienced CB. So if we go with the players we are most linked to for these positions, it's Shaw, Reus, Carvalho & Garay.

I think we need another CM on top of that Sydney, don't you? I know you have repeatedly put Mata and Rooney in midfield 3's but I can't help but think one of them should be taken out in favour of say, Kroos. Would be much more solid.

I think those are/should be the targets too Syd, personally I think we should try our hardest to get Kroos as well though. Ideally we need two new CMs. Carrick has gone down hill dramatically and the rest aren't good enough.

Although it's thought LvG would probably dip into the Bundesliga for players so you cannot rule out Kroos, Hummels & Reus.

With just William Carvalho our problems still would not be solved. We would not have the passing range that we need.

Fresh, I don't mean to open up a can of old worms, but what happens to Rooney if we buy Kroos or Fabregas? Where does he fit in? That's why I think if we fail to get a Kroos type player this summer, Rooney will move deeper. I think he was going to move deeper next season anyway, that's just my opinion though.

I think he fits with PSG, rather than as an ineffective midfielder here.

Danny, Ibra has been courting Rooney for sometime now, begging him to join him at PSG. He would fit nicely just behind Ibra. With the Rooney cash it would enable us to buy a Cesc or Kroos to replace him. If MU do still want Cavani despite RvP staying, could a swap deal be agreed between the two clubs? Rarely happens, but I doubt many on here would object to such a swap. We would need to offer cash too of course.

I think your forgetting it's a 'squad' rather than a 1st xi syd? Rooney/mata/RVP etc etc will be rotated?

Would love to see Rooney's face when he's sat on the bench. Never going to happen Boca. It is a squad game, but you do not have players like RvP, Mata or Rooney sat on a bench. You are better off selling one of them and buying a WC player for another position.

Fresh
Have a look where bergkamp played for ajax.
Part of a midfield 3 with out the ball, the number 10 role with it that's where rooney will play imo
Dont get caught up in formations van gaal will play a fluid formation but he will have a deep cm playmaker like kross a cm and a number 10 in the middle of the park to make up the 3.
2 wide men and a striker. But the formation will be fluid

I can see Rooney going.

Fresh
Eventually he will . Imo after giving him a very good 5 year contract I would be surprised if he does this summer.
Syd
psg would have to change there whole system to play rooney of ibra, that's why cavani is playing out wide.

There really are some odd suggestions when it comes to rooney

One of the oddest suggestions is that Rooney can play in the Bergkamp role. A player who is severely lacking in technical ability and positional awareness will now be able to switch between two positions?

My opinion is that Rooney is not a van Gaal type player and will be gone sooner rather than later. He is a manager who demands that all players learn to adapt to his philosophy. Rooney is a player who Fergie argues finds it very difficult to adapt his game. Add massive wages to the mix, and I'd wager that we are far more likely to see Mata in a van Gaal midfield than Rooney.

Why do people think Rooney can just drop in deeper at the CM role for us? He's far to slow on the ball, his first touch is terrible, he's not quick and sharp enough for the quick 1 touch football we should be playing. Yes he can ping a 50 yard ball, but only when he's got all the time in the world. If we can't get a top cm like Kroos or someone of that ilk is even rather have Cabaye anyday playing cm than dropping Rooney in there! Time to cash in! If PSG want him then snap they're hand off!

Danny
We will see next year

I think rooney will do well under van gaal
I will also be amazed if he moves to psg they change there formation and he plays of ibra.

As for the bergkamp role, rooney has played it several times pal .
No point going over it all again pal let's just wait and see whos right next season.

I understand people's belief that Rooney will leave. I don't necessarily disagree but I don't believe it will be this season.
The reason for anyone to match or get near the contract we are offering, no club will offer us a decent transfer fee. I don't see us selling him on the cheap. It's not a World Cup year and whilst he may have worries about game time under van gaal I don't see him pushing for a move himself just yet. Why would he need or want to. He will wait I believe till at least January.

I can see him leaving in future maybe most likely next summer.

Jred, how do you for Mata in there as well then? You could easily make a case for Januzaj starting most games as well as new signings like Reus.

Van Gaal plays a very fluid 4-2-3-1 4-3-3 with a Mata in behind the striker two Reus like widemen a Rvp type striker two midfielders like carvalho and Kroos one to link the play the other to allow him and the mata type player to push forward it makes teams sit deep and the wingers usally have enough pace to cover two very quick fullback for example shaw rafael the centre back partnship he likes is strong knows each other and play nearly 70 percent of the seasons games rooney would not fit in as he drops to deep and van gaal likes his stiker to stay up top and run behind lines example rvp

Paddy
I agree
Fresh
I have said many times before I think buying mata was a strange decision given the players we have.

Januzaj is still young I don't think he will be a regular starter next year but probably the year after could be one of the first names on the team sheet, as a wide player
In 3 years I think he will play some sort of 10 role I actual think he will take over from rooney.

I would be amazed if rooney played as cm next year . If anybody has seen or gets the chance to watch ajax or barce under lvg you will c why.
There are certain traits his side will have but a formation will be difficult to nail down.
I still think he will surprise and upset a few

"A system depends on the players you have. I played 4-3-3 with Ajax, 2-3-2-3 with Barcelona and a 4-4-2 with AZ. I'm flexible. The philosophy stays the same though. I don't think that you can adapt it to every possible situation. You need the right mindset, and it depends on how the players see the coach and vice versa. The coach is the focal point of the team but you need to have an open mind, and so do all the players. Everyone needs to work together to achieve a common goal." Van Gaal

"I would be amazed if rooney played as cm next year"

"Have a look where bergkamp played for ajax. Part of a midfield three with out the ball, the number 10 role with it that's where rooney will play imo"

Without going into a big debate, what is the difference between the two positions?

Syd
Its a massive difference .
Forget formations because the teams will be fluid. A 4 3 3 will be a striker wide players 3 midfielders with different roles and different positions on the pitch and 4 defenders.
But the cb could be part of the midfield 3 at times the wide men will be part of it and the full backs will be part of it at times.
If he goes for his preferred 4-3-3 and he may not as you can see in my post above the 4-3-3 is only good for doing the team sheet.

In theory he will play a deep cm play maker a cm player and a 10. But the position they take up on the pitch will vary . I would be amazed if he plays 3 cm players fir example .

Its not about formations its all about tactics .
Or that's how it was at ajax and barce.

On rooney lvg will either get the very best out of him or there will be a major falling out there will be no middle ground imo

Jred, I disagree, I think there will be one defensive midfielder (Carvalho type) and he will cover two more advanced central midfielders. Van Persie as the main striker with probably Adnan and possibly Reus either side. This is more of a 2323 which is a variation of the 433.

I am aware of the LvG quote, I posted it on the teams page a few days ago. But I watched a LvG interview a couple days ago where he said that he will play the 433 when he takes his new job. He said that in December 2013.

Sydney.
He plays with a deep lying play maker not a defensive cm like carvalho.
Strootman with the Dutch.
Pep and xavi at Barcelona.
He turned schwiney in to the role at Munich .
Again you are getting to caught up in formations imo .
Honest question how much did you see of his Ajax and Barcelona teams because they didn't play like people Are describing them.
.

Whether it's Carvalho, Strootman, Kroos or whoever, my point is I think Mata and Rooney will play ahead of the number 6 in a 2323 formation. At least that's how it would look on paper. Tactics change, formations change and like you said it will be fluid, but I think Mata and Rooney will play ahead of the number 6. So essentially Rooney being one of two attacking midfielders.

Sydney
I'm not sure what your point is because that's the first time up have mentioned Mata.
I though your point was that rooney would play cm or play of ibra at psg or that van gall would play a defensive cm.

In fact I'm sure you said if we buy kroos Rooney doesn't fit in as opposed to Rooney will play in front of kroos

We're talking about where we believe Rooney would play under LvG.

I believe he will play in the more advanced 2 in a 2323.

I have made it clear in my formations on the teams page.

Syd
2-3-2-3. 4-3-3. 4-2-3-1: its all the same thing that's just for the team sheet its all about the tactics .
Imo rooney will be given the job of supporting the striker and linking the midfield and attack, more or less the 10 role as opposed to playing as a CM

Jred, I agree with that. I know the tactics are complex. The only thing I disagree with is I do not think Rooney will be the number ten so to speak. I think Mata and Rooney will be alongside each other as opposed to Rooney being the more advanced of the two. I think Rooney will be deeper next season than he is used to playing.

Syd
I think rooney will play a similar role to what he has in the past .
He will be tasked with supporting the striker and dropping deep and making the numbers up in cm.
Lvg has nearly always had a player who does this.
It a role that isn't appreciated on this site hence all the rooney plays to deep, he's not disciplined enough or tactically aware to play the 10 role.

Syd
Also it is probably the most effective way of getting rvp, mata and rooney in to the team but I think there will be many variations.
Look at holland rvp has played a few times wide left under lvg.

"Look at holland rvp has played a few times wide left under lvg."

Interesting point, something I was going to mention earlier regarding our Cavani discussion from the other day. Cavani interest is still there apparently, so is this a signing the club want to make regardless of who leaves or who's manager? Could this be SAF urging the club to sign Cavani?

Don't get me wrong Jred, like I have said I think Rooney is best in the number ten position. Like I have said hundreds of times, but I don't think he will be as advanced next season as we have seen him this season. He will still link midfield to Van Persie, as will Mata IMO. I think we will have a De Jong type sitting deep with two advanced attacking midfielders (Mata & Rooney) ahead of him. For me it keeps all three players happy and playing together and both Mata and Rooney get to play centrally. I know it will change game by game and even during games, but I think typically we will see Rooney and Mata ahead of a deep sitting midfielder whoever that may be.

Its possible, if it works may be a different matter.
Im not sure how mata fits in to lvg to be honest he just doesn't do enough of the ball imo.
Should be an interesting summer

"Fits in to a lvg TEAM "
Not the man himself

I think with Jose's teams he expects Hazard and co to run up and down the pitch supporting the fullback when defending and attacking. This is not Mata's game. But LvG seems to have small areas on the pitch which is certain player's areas. Mata is not going to run up and down the pitch like Jose wanted, but Mata could do what LvG would want and work hard in a particular part of the pitch.

To be fair I think Jose doesn't like flair players and only likes hardworkers. This will benefit the team when defending, but the team suffers offensively and it's boring to watch. After spending a huge amount of cash last summer and even this summer when he finally gets a top notch striker, I fully expect to see the Chelsea bus more often. It's how he wins his trophies. Boring football, but he does win trophies.

LvG likes players to work hard, but he doesn't sacrifice flair and flair players at the expense of entertaining football. I expect Mata to play a massive part next season.

Albeit it hasn't won Jose any trophies this season :)

After spending well over £100m this season he ought to have done better than he has done. I think Chelsea will be stronger next season, but Jose will not find it easy at Chelsea this time round. He's already falling out with players.

Im not so sure, he only works when he has the ball .
He is as gary nevile said a lazy 10 only interested when he has the ball.im really not sure where your getting he is a lvg type to be honest .
I think he is a classic modern 10 at his best playing of a striker but gives you nothing with out the ball, can u imagine him playing cm?
Ive very rarely seen lvg team play with that type to be honest .
Even kagawa can be busy in there but mata i'm not so sure

Its a bit like rivaldo at barcelona who was a much better player than mata. Lvg wouldn't play him in the middle told him he would have to play on the wing. Rivaldo didn't want to play on the wing so lvg put barcelonas biggest star and best player on the bench for best part of the season.
One of the reasons he got the sack van gaal even tried to sell him .
Rivaldo was european footballer of year at the time

I didn't say he's a LvG type, personally I think Mata is a luxury player, but I have no doubt he will use him next season. I don't think he will be used at a winger therefore will not have to do any tracking back. I think he will work alongside Rooney.

U still track back and work hard in that position .

Sure, even Van Persie will work hard off the ball. I can see Mata working hard off the ball, but I don't see him being a back-up to a fullback.

I think I'm going to open a bottle of JD. It would be rude not to :)

Syd
the point is lvg won't pick players on reputation or how much they cost or how much they are on if he doesn't think rvp mata and rooney fit in the starting 11 one will be on the bench.
I think next summer 1 of them will leave

Jred, I couldn't agree more. I am looking forward to it, this bloke has a plan which is something we have been missing all season. He can handle the media, he can handle arrogant players and he is a proven winner. Players will respect the man. I'm looking forward to the summer and next season. I think after us being so low this season, it can only improve for us. Two years of LvG, hopefully his knowledge will rub off on Giggs and he will keep the same philosophy going and we will be set for years. Warren Joyce will be implementing the same style of play at youth level so the players can be moulded into playing a certain way as seniors. I'm looking forward to it.

08 May 2014 11:26:35
Nani is earning 4.94m a year and he is expected to be sold for 5m this year. Fascinating! If we had sold him for more than 60K last year, we would've been in the money, of course that's without even taking into account of interest rate!

Cannot believe we gave him a new deal just to sell him for £5 million. You sometimes wonder about the thought process that go on at the top.

True but that thought process involved Moyes.

Nani new deal - No
Fellaini £27m - Hell No
Rooney £300k pw new deal - ok as appreciate we were backed into a corner but a braver manager maybe would have sold him
Mata £37m - overpriced maybe but a world class talent so no probs at all with that one.

United have often appeared to be an international brand run like a corner shop. Nani great example of that. Woeful player. Woeful decision.

The Nani new deal, the fee for Fellaini and the 300k for Rooney really annoys me. A stronger manager would of said you accept the deal of you leave, its a joke that he gets paid that.

We should have sold Nani 3 seasons ago. Since then he's cost us around £12m and his value has dipped by £10m+. Same goes for Anderson (although he was never really worth £10m to begin with).

Expect they'll both move on for around £12m this summer.

08 May 2014 09:51:50
If these rumours about Varane looking like he is heading to Chelsea are true then in my view we HAVE to make an attempt ourselves. He is an excellent defender but doesn't play enough at Madrid and would think that he is the very best option for us.

Varane would be an ideal CB. Suspect he'll always be heading to Chelski though if Mourinho in for him. Mourinho already snapped another great young CB talent in Kurt Zouma too. Doh!

08 May 2014 06:10:11
I seriously hope that media reports that Will Keane could follow Pogba to juventus on a free are spurious. It would be criminal to see another youth player leave for nothing when they are showing a lot of promise.

Hopefully one if the more informed contributors to the site will be able to set the record straight.

This is just my opinion but since Will Keane picked up his unfortunate injury he's struggled to get back to the huge promise he was showing, even before Wilsons debut he was always going to come into the 1st team before Keane and the fact is I can't see room for both of them in the 1st team squad, I think Keane is 21 now, his injury has set him back much like petruccis did and I can't see him getting 1st team opportunities in front of Wilson.

Wilson has overtaken him now. I am not too fussed about it. I have known about his reluctance to sign a new deal for a couple of months now.

And what about Henriquez? I think he could surprise a few of u!

To be honest, I don't think he has a future here anyway. As Syd says, Wilson has overtaken him. However, is there any news on the progress of Angelo Henriquez? At one point tipped as the next big thing.