Manchester United Banter Archive October 08 2012

08 Oct 2012 22:33:18
Nobber from the Arselol site who chirped up about Wilshere been better than Cleverley, you do realise he's just missed 1 of the most if not most important year of his progress?

And wilshere is a massive bag head!

Wilshere is better then Cleverley. I'm a huge fan of Toms but Wilshere is top, top class.

Red Joe

He is better than Cleverley at the moment, he's a terrific player and before his injury he showed that (against Barca etc). Cleverley has come on a lot this season already and if he continues he'll be at a similar sort of level, having only done it for 10 games or so so far it's hard to disagree with Nobber without being bias.

rpc

I'd bite anyone's hand off for Wilshire. He is an exceptional player.

J Bones.

08 Oct 2012 22:06:37
Not a rumour as such, more like a 'scouting suggestion' that United keep tabs on the young french winger at Leicester, Anthony Knockaert.

He's the lad who scored those two great goals at Huddersfield the other week, but I'm not having a knee jerk 'MOTD fever' reaction in saying we ought to be monitoring him.

Apparently he's been a stand out performer for france at under 20 level and is now in their under 21 side, and questions are being asked in the french media and throughout French football in general as to how the bigger French clubs let him get away.

With the seeming interest in young Ince it would appear that we may be in the market for a young up and coming winger (cum creative attacking midfielder) so it might be sensible to have a close look at this french lad too?

Red Rob

Never spell 'come' as 'cum'

08 Oct 2012 18:45:13
I know I come om here and give a bit of stick now and then but I've just read on my page that one of you lot said Cleverly was better than Wilshere, please please please do not even think it let alone write it, also said the chump meant that cross to go in....I may have been born at night but it wasn't last night ffs.
Stoner

There is no chance that Cleverly is better than Wilshere. Not only is Wilshere class Cleverly is incredibly average and alot of the united lads know that. It shows how poor his passing is when you actually look at how far the ball was away from Rvp.


Clg

Or your both talking sheep dip. They are both good players and will from the core of Englands midfield at the next world cup once we can discard fatty frank and big head stevie me.

How about let both of them get on with it and comapre at the end of the season.

Your lucky Wilshire is English though, means he's less likely to run away to a big club to win trophies.

He has a pass success rate of about 95% so far this season, i'd say he's a very good passer. I agree Wilshere is the better player but you need to take into account his injury, Ramsey hasn't been the same since his injury. It might well be the case with Wilshere before you start crowing.

Shappy

Hate to agree but Jack is better

Dio

08 Oct 2012 20:05:26
It's not a case of crowing or comparing at the end of the season, Jack we know will take time to come back properly, Cleverly is just not in the same league and will never be. You would make a straight swap in a heart beat and you know it. It just show's what a lack of midfielders Utd and England have if I'm truly honest. Look I know it hacks you off but you genuinely have the worst midfield going at the mo. You talk about the 2nd half at Spuds, they let you do that. Seriously come on now.
Stoner

You lot are actually so deluded Cazorla is head and tails better than Kagawa yet you lot try an say their both good players Wilshere is definitely better than Cleverly yet you lot try say their both good players... no both our players are better. As for the England comment Cleverly is only playing for England because he plays for one of the best teams in the country i can name you five English midfielders that are a lot better and Wilshere isn't even in the list.


Clg

Btw Wilshere is two years younger.


Clg

Lol! What have you been smoking Stoner? We're rubbish we are, yawn.. That'll be us challenginging for the title and cups again this year will it!? Nice shiny stadium, shame your team doesn't want to play in it anymore...

DodgyBanter

No you know your talking sheep dip. You know deep down if you win Jack all again and he is anywhere near as good as you think then City will be in for him.

Both quality players, but the difference is Cleverley works hard to be the player he is whereas Wilshere is naturally gifted. Wilshere isn't great at attacking and isn't great at defending either, but like Modric he sort of bosses the midfield with his passing and link-up play. I am looking forward to seeing Cleverley and Wilshere link-up for England, that's if Wilshere ever recovers from his injury.

Sydney!

Lol how funny is it that one of our young english CM have a very good game and now gooner fans are so worried there pride and joy jack might not be the only young english talent in the prem they feel the need to come on our page a slate him, very funny indeed, why dont u just grow up and except they are both good players and will hopefully grow into very good players together.....or do you think it might be because they sense another big transfer to utd in a couple of seasons......just a thought
Chris the REDman

Go on then clg name them....

Jaxer {Ed004's Note - For certain reasons I can not post that. I do not think you meant it in an offensive way so I will just give you a warning and heads up not to post it again. Other ed's might find it banable}

Wilshere will not stay at Arsenal for ever. He is still very good pals with both RvP and Nasri unlike the true Gooner Frimpong who wanted to murder them both. I see Jack looking for pastures new in a couple of years, if he ever recovers that is.

Sydney!

Cleverley is good but i think wilshere as the edge.

08 Oct 2012 20:49:29
Hey Dodgy,
Most of you know you're gonna win naff all again this year, you're in denial mate, Sidney even thinks you're gonna be 15 points ahead of us this year, You wanna buy all and sundry in January to save your bacon. Aint gonna happen. And shiny new stadium and we dont play football in it, ha ha ha, could be worse I guess we could be playing in the theatre of relics.... Oh and dont be so harsh on Mike Phelan, I def saw him move the other day.
Stoner

08 Oct 2012 20:59:51
Redman,
If you call that a good game then you are having a laugh, where is his range of passing, where is his finishing, where is his 1st touch, I'm english, Cleverly playing for you has nowt to do with it, I can admit Rooney is class when he feels like it, but I genuinely don't rate Cleverly, injury or not he doesn't look good and afraid he reminds me of Spearing. You have had some top midfielders, he aint gonna be one. Simple as that.
Stoner

Sydney Wilshere isnt good at attacking or defending?.. thats where this one stops most of you are full crap just accept the truth even Ramsey is better than Cleverly he showed that for team GB


Clg

08 Oct 2012 21:23:53
Sydney.
Jack and the Frim are best mates, wont be long before the frim is eating Cleverly for breakfast. In fact I bet right now you swap your whole midfield for ours. Grow a set and admit it mate. Clg was also spot on Ramsey is way better than Cleverly, dont even think we needed to bring jack into it. Talking of injuries, do you think Smalling and Jones will always be as injury prone, did they come through your youth team or did you buy them?
Stoner

Clg, I'm sorry, how many goals has Wilshere got for Arsenal in his 60 odd games? 3 or 4 is it? Like I said not great at attacking.

Sydney!

Lol stoner every question u asked was silly,
u ask where is passing was? 90+% that gd enough? where is his first touch? well the pass rate shows u he has a very gd first touch, u ask where his finishing was? he scored!
u sure u watched utd? me thinks u just woke up this morning thought to yourself, we are having a gd start of the season, looked at the table see u were below everton and wba still and decided to pop off at us, were not your rivals anymore my friend, i think there is a spurs,everton and liverpool page on this site, why dnt u go over and try to wind up your REAL rivals ure going to need all the help u can get getting 4th lol. Adebouyor,toure,nasri,fabregas,Rvp,song and counting :)
Chris the REDman
P.s i will welcome wilshire with open arms when he gets fit and leaves for us.

Stoner, would I swap a midfield quartet of Cleverley, Kagawa, Rooney & Carrick for Wilshere, Cazorla, Arteta & Diaby? I would have to say no my friend. If we replace Carrick with someone like Vidal then we will have the best midfield in the land. You still have a decent midfield mind, that's Arsenal I am talking about not your beloved Liverpool.

Sydney!

Yeh we brought smalling and jones much like u brought, fabregas,song,nasri,jenkinson,walcott etc, every1 buys players, i dnt blame u for not knowing that u support arsenal after all

Haha I come on here to find Arsenal fans chirping up as if they still matter.

APC

Stoner do you support Arsenal or Liverpool, your always sucking Liverpool fans D***s and going on about Liverpool, but then you like to boast about Wilshere, oh my. Wilshere and Cleverley are both talented yes Wilshere is naturally talented but Cleverley is a hard worker, both good. It's really immature to say things like "oh yeah Wilshere is better that Cleverley."

Go back to your beloved Liverpool page please.

-JakeW

We agree that Wilshere has better skills than cleverly. But we are happy with cleverly and he has yet to fullfill his potential. I would no way swap wilshere for cleverly but having said that I would like have wilshere in our team because everyone knows he is a top quality player and so as cleverly.
Remember Roy recently state that cleverly has the ability to play total football style.

08 Oct 2012 17:15:55
Good game yesterday but 1 thing I am assured now is that DDG is a flapper of the highest order. Still cant believe we missed out on Sketelenburg when he wanted to come to OT so badly. But hope that DDG improves.
I am still surprised that SAF did not buy a defender in summer. Smalling and Jones were far from recovery and Vidic was still in doubt. Going into the season with just 2 CB who can be injured any time is somewhat foolish. If you guys think that it was just a matter of a few games before they were back, then I can assure you that these will be the games that'll have a huge impact on the title at the end of the season. This is obviously taking toll on Rio, Evans and Rafael as well who have been playing continuously for some time now and that hampers their performance in some games. It is a matter of time before one of them gets injured and we'll have to play with Carrick in the defence which would be very problematic.

SHAITAN

We now have a 2 week break when hopefully Smalling will recover and Jones will be 2 weeks nearer. We also have youngsters who need to be given a chance.

As for DDG, I see your point. He is young an learning but as I have said previously, not sure having a goalkeeper who is learning is a great idea. And... £17M!

Stekelenberg is average

Smalling is ready, but the manager wanted him to steer clear of an England call-up so left him out of the Newcastle game to give him more time.

Sydney!

We play you guys in a few weeks at old Trafford, so will see who does better. Besides another season or 2 with no trophies and your entire midfield will probably have gone elsewhere. I would not mind us taking Cazorla :)

Shahram

08 Oct 2012 15:24:09
Iv'e always had a lot of time for Allan Pardew ,however after yesterdays tantrum when he highlighted RVP's nudge on Cabaye i'm afraid iv'e lost all respect for the man especially as his players were culpable of some very late challenges off the ball .The late tackle on Cleverley by Tiote was especially nasty and could have resulted in a serious injury.His outburst smacks purely of sour grapes due to his side losing the game.
Raffa

He was as bigger girl's blouse as Tiote. I worried for our payers a 1 point - thought the ref was not great in missing a few things yesterday. Pardewdob needs to tell his players to stop bleating and whining to the ref every 2 minutes.

AJH

08 Oct 2012 14:17:04
Vidal, Moutinho, Isco, Hummels. i'd call that a success story in the making.

Ryan tunicliffe, davide petrucci, jessie lingard, michael keane, would call that a nigtmare!

aaallj5

We need to start playing the diamond in the U21's too. Then we will have ready made replacements for certain positions.

----------Johnstone----------
------Keane------Woots------
Vermijl-----Tunners-----Blacks
----Petrucci-------Lingard----
------------Powell------------
------Keane------Angelo------
------------------------------

Sydney!

We don't need Moutinho. Vidal and someone like Ozil/Gotze/Rodrigeuz etc is a success story in the making.

Fresh!

08 Oct 2012 11:58:51
A week in football is a long time, last week Evra and Ferdinand were finished, this week proves they still have something to offer the club.
Last week Sir Alex was tactically inept, this week he's proved he can change the system to win away against a tough opposition.
Last week the club was in a downward spiral, a spent force, this week we are a breath of fresh air, back in the mix.
Where are the doubters and the Liverpool fans? A week in football is indeed a long time.
Flyhalf Mitch.

Yes there are many fickle fans on this site, but I am not one of them. Evra still needs replacing and will be replaced once Buttner is deemed ready. Ferdinand has shown that he can still play and I for one have never doubted him, but he does need replacing soon either this summer or next. I do believe he may go to America when he is ready to leave. One thing that I am sure of and that is that the manager never came up with this diamond formation. Something tells me someone close to him has given him some advice and he has finally taken it. Who's advice is anyone's guess? Carlos Queiros? Blanc? Mourinho? Pep? Or did he have a chat with someone closer to home like Joyce who I am told is very clued up? I don't know who has been advising him, but this isn't the manager's idea. Great manager, but an average tactician.

Sydney!

Ao, do you think that now we are te best team in the world!?

Nick86

All I was stating was that reading posts from one week to the next a lot of "fans" from both United and Blair, lfc, have been proved wrong and Sir Alex needs to be given some credit if not all for decisions made. The buck stops with him for wins/losses, he may not be the best coach in the world but he has proved time and time again he has been best manager in the world.
It takes more than a great tacticion to manage our club, and his man management has been a template for up and coming managers to emulate.
I imagine it's not easy to take advice from young coaches to change systems, but if he has then kudos to him for that too. Albeit not quick enough for some.
As for do i think we are now the best team in the world now? No....... but we are the best club in the world imo, and thanks to S.A.F.
Flyhalf Mitch.

I am not taking anything away from our great manager, just stating that he isn't the best tactician and stubbornness is his Achilles heel. I agree that many change their opinions on a game to game basis, that is where the fickleness amongst football fans comes in. A goal by Evra does not erase the past 2.5 seasons of poor defensive displays.

Sydney!

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Let's see the usual suspects turn in a consistent run of performances before claiming all is rosy.

RED_SKY

Syd has a point, as does the original poster. A few weeks ago, people said we were doomed, now others are saying we are brilliant, neither is true. We are in transition, we still have a couple need replacing, injuries aren't helping.

Syd is also right about tactics (twice in 1 post!) Despite his brilliance, tactics do not appear to be the Manager's greatest strength to put it mildly. Barcelona games anyone?

AJH

08 Oct 2012 10:11:03
Hummels £28,000,000
Wanyama £10,000,000
Neymar £60,000,000

Those will be next summers transfers and we'll line up like this:

--------------De Gea
Rafael---Hummels---Smalling---Buttner
----Cleverly--Wanyama--Kagawa
-----Rooney----RVP-----Neymar

Looks quite good doesn't it.

Scrap neymar and get isco, quality player and probably save us £50 million!

aaallj5

I would rather spend 60m on

Lewandowski 25m
vidal 25m

we'd save ourselves 10m

Although Neymar is a good player I wouldn't spend £50m+ for him. He has an appalling attitude and he is very lightweight. I am not convinced Hummels is available and I do not think he is ready to leave Dortmund. Wanyama is of course possible, but the other two are highly unlikely to happen. Neymar will not move to Manchester full-stop.

Sydney!

08 Oct 2012 11:33:14
More reaslitic is:

____________De Gea
Rafael___Smalling___Vidic___Buttner
___Cleverly__Wanyama__Kagawa
__Rooney_____RVP____Rodriguez

We won't buy a first choice centre back, Hangelaand rumour is interesting though, he could just be in the squad for insurance. That midfield looks excellent, got the midfield enforcer with the more technical players. And the front 3 looks good, however, I'd rather have Gotze but thats just personal preference. Whatever happens, if we sign a Rodriguez or a Gotze then Nani leaves. We don't need him anyway. Young and Valencia are good enough to have for wingers when we play with them. From the managers comments, we will be playing 4-3-3 / Diamond more and more often so two wingers is enough + Welbeck.

Fresh!

08 Oct 2012 11:40:37
In fact, if we were to spend £50 million + on someone (that wasn't Ronaldo / Messi) i'd only spend it all on Falcao. A front 3 of Falcao, Rooney and RVP would be unreal. However it won't happen - just saying though haha. Lewandowski might happen though, he is of course another option.

Fresh!

-----------------De Gea
Rafael---Smalling---Vidic---Buttner
Anderson---Wanayama---Kagawa
Rooney----------RVP--------Isco/Gotze


I don't see the need to buy someone in defence. It very unfortunate to have injury to 3 amazing defenders but knowing Saf(he knows there is enough cover) and as it is once Smalling is back, I think we can start looking rock solid. We would have Jones(replacing vidic in 1 or 2 years time), Rio, Evans, Wootton, Keane as cover.

Box to box midfielder/DM--Ideal option would be Wanayama, 21. He is fantasic, full of energy, tackles better then anyone, big and very strong, scores, have good passing ability short or long and has very good attitude(very important as united Player) unlike m'vila. We would be getting ideal replacement of Keano! When he leaves for African cup( kenya might not stay till final) Jones can fill his place in mid.

Isco or Gotze, sell Nani. Both talented, young and amazing dribbler, they both can hold and pass the ball. Strong leg and upper body strength. Looking the fact tht we bid for Lucas and Hazard, I would say they are better if not on same level as Hazard.

If Ando doesn't perform, Eriksen can be perfect replacement for Scholes! could play in 442 formation in centre of mid with Wanayama and would play amazing in our diamond midfield. Eriksen has to be in our midfield.



Red Samurai

08 Oct 2012 08:20:19
Read Gan's post further down the page and I liked what he had said (In little he said that the best person to take from Dortmund right now would be the manager/coach)

I like what you did there gan and he would be a great successor of Fergie, I watch my fair few of Dortmund games as I love their style of play, they are always playing fast and good. Even though yesterday they nearly lost to Hannover96!

What I want to know is, after the Dortmund vs City game Fergie suddenly starting making us play like that, finally playing a 4-3-3 has show that we don't need world class midfielders to win games, we just needed more support in there(We should get a midfielder next summer though.) Maybe Fergie is building and adapting the squad for the next manager, Jose Mouriniho is out of the picture IMO, Pep Guardiola and Jürgen Klopp are two managers who use this playing style, so maybe one of these two will take over? I don't know.

It just seems weird that Fergie buys Kagawa (Dortmund's best player), we get linked with all of their players, he watches many of their games and he is now using their style of play, we are still far from mastering it though.

Would any of you like to see us get 1 of these two managers? And would you like us to master this style of play?

-JakeW

Jorgen Klopp would be excellent, great manager with great vision and a great tactical brain. The one thing that puts me of with guardiola is that he has only won with Barcelona, probably the greatest club side ever.
Klopp has developed a Dortmund side from scratch using the youth he had and creating a team that understands everyones strengths and weaknesses. Also Klopp has felt disappointment and knows how the game can suddenly change. The guy was relegated and then got the dortmund job, taking them to back to back titles.
I wouldn't complain about either one but Klopp for me.

aaallj5

08 Oct 2012 07:32:33
Keep the same formation as today, but interchange Hernandez and Wellbeck, and even Kagawa if you want Valencia out right. You can rotate Anderson and Fletcher with Carrick and Clev, and you have scholes to control games where things arent going smoothly. So happy to see us drop the reliance on wingers as it doesn't suit our current CM or strikers. Watching defenders try to keep track of where Rooney, RVP, Welbeck, Kagawa and Clev, with the FBs providing width. Quite enjoyable. This wasn't a complete performance as after the 15th minute we seemed to switch back into first gear, but it was a glimpse at what's possible when a fit Rooney is played along with RVP, Kagawa, Clev and another attacking minded player. -KG

I wouldn't change too much, I would play Rafael/Valencia & Evra/Buttner as attacking fullbacks to add the width. I would persist with Welbeck as he does a great job in every department, but scoring. That will come soon enough. I would definitely add Lewandowski to the team next summer, like Welbeck he does a lot of work off the ball, however he is a great goalscorer too. I would swap Carrick with a defensive midfielder so that the fullbacks would have a license to get forward more often. Not sure which defensive midfielder, but many teams are looking at this Wanyama lad.

---------------DDG---------------
--------Small---------Vidic--------
Valencia-----Wanyama-----Buttner
------Cleverley------Kagawa------
--------------Rooney-------------
-------Lewand------V.Persie-------
----------------------------------

Sydney!

08 Oct 2012 00:49:30
Did the scousers have a game aswell ? U can usually rely on blur et al to keep u informed but maybe I missed something - perhaps theyve turned another corner and got stuck up their own ar*e - I'm thinkin theyre well used to it by now

N.I. Devil

07 Oct 2012 23:59:51
Much much more improved performance from the lads today ! For the first time in a long time I was excited for the game after seeing the team line up. Pleased to see DDG start he is definetely our no 1. Obviously still a little vulnerable at crosses but once we have a settled back 4 should be fine. Thought back 4 were brilliant evra looked focused and eager to impress and he deserves the praise he is getting. Rafael is getting better and better one of our players of the season so far. Evans scored a brilliant header and looked assured. And Rio much more improved from last week. However when smalling returns I expect him to drop to the bench. Now midfield was really where we was 100 times more improved ! Carrick is so underrated imo ! He had cabaye covered all day long and as we all know cabaye is a very accomplished international player. A player which we were very interested in ! His intercepting and passing was first class very impressed. And we now have options in that role with fletcher/scholes and imo phil jones when he returns from injury. Also would like to see strootman come in the summer. However a player I like the look of is sven bender of dortmund. Young, german, and has played with kagawa before ! My ideal would of course be vidal or khedira who are heads and shoulders above the rest. Thought cleverley was magnificient ! Great tempo, drive and passing was crisp. His defence is very underrated and with more games and confidence under his belt I think he will be particularly key to us this year. I was disappointed when kagawa got substituted thought he looked impressive. Personally would have played him instead of welbeck and would have had Anderson in midfield as I think his driving runs and energy would have put the newcastle midfield under increasing pressure and I would like to see him start. Wayne Rooney. Where to start ?! Utterly worldclass. Magnificient. Controlled the game. His vision, touch and all round game was heads and shoulders above any other player on the pitch ! If you look at our rivals they all have influential playmakers. City have silva, chelsea have mata (oscar and hazard!) And arsenal have cazorla whose fantastic. Although these other players are perhaps technically better, wayne is physically stronger both in attack and defence. Also we have kagawa, nani, young, cleverley who can all create ! If we get the tactics right and the defence sorted the amount of attacking options around the pitch are scary ! So play wayne in the whole. It gives him the freedom the move around and spray the passes scholes-esque. RVP's hold up play was fantastic and I can really see an understanding developing between him and rooney ! Very excited for what is to come. He is the sort of player that takes that half chance which only 2 or 3 world class players in the world can put away. He is the sorta player that will score from those impossible angles and score something from nothing. So all the people who are still sceptical of him just watch. When we are desperate later on in the season and need that vital goal he is the sort of player to step him. He's done it for years at arsenal. He will do it at united. Going on to welbeck..thought he was energetic but that's about it I'm afraid. Energetic is good,but running round aimlessly isn't always praisable. Would much rather have seen hernandez play who I believe will be key and will chip in with some vital goals. Really excited for young to come back actually as I believe this 4-3-3 formation suits him brilliantly. Also people, we have so many players to comeback from injury ! The squad is not fully fit. If we can click then I honestly believe we will be devastating. Even dare I say..dortmund-esque ! We are only 2-3 players off being a european force. Be patient things will slot into place if fergie plays the right tactics and the desire and drive is their to reclaim what was so cruelly snatched from us.

Park 3 lung