Manchester United Banter Archive September 08 2013

 

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08 Sep 2013 21:26:12
Been reading around and a very interesting article regarding united and our Nike sponsorship.

Apparently they need 18 months to make a new kit and with our shirt sponsor changing next year, apparently Woodward needs to renew with Nike by the winter.

Any of the eds no where negotiations stand with this new deal with Nike many reports suggesting were are trying to get a 10 figure sum?

Also the artical goes on to question Woodward and saying he might loose the Nike deal.

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Woody is a complete clown when it comes to transfers but sponsorship deals he's the mutts nuts.

No way will he mess this up.

That's why he won't be booted as main geezer because of his track record with all big deals that he's done.

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Reports being leaked now via the media tie in with what the editor said at the time. We know we were heavily linked to Thiago at the time and it wasn't til a month after the story broke that BM signed him. Soon as they came in he signed for them. I think he was ready to sign for us, but Moyes decided not to sanction it, then joined BM. If true that is a diabolical decision by Moyes. Clearly SAF's plans for midfield were Strootman & Thiago. I can understand Moyes wanting his own players, but Fellaini & Thiago would have transformed our midfield completely and there would have been change to buy Coentrao. I hope Moyes learns from his dithering as we have missed the boat here.

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Sydney

There is no proof of any of this and just reporters writing stuff and not sure DM can be blamed for it.

What is a sure thing is that there is a lot of speculation in the press about us. There is a report that we tried to get Ardu Turan at the end of the transfer window, who is an excellent winger BTW and a openly states that he is a Liverpool fan and would like to play for them. If true then who was being sold may I ask as we already have too many.

We also supposedly had Gaitan last year signed and sealed according to the press, so I would be very careful making statements that are based on people saying stuff in a round table discussion on a website.

All these reports generally start with one journalist making a comment, which 99% of the time they can't substantiate and then other pundits pick up on it and it gets repeated and repeated again and again and suddenly becomes almost factual.

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It comes down to whether or not you trust the editor, I do.

That added to what is being released by media now cannot be a coincidence.

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Reports that moyes never thought thiago was physical enough for the epl.
So where does that leave kagawa

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Kagawa is no smaller than Pienaar and Osman. Perhaps he wanted a bigger lad next to Carrick?

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Has nothing to do trust. No one has gotten a thing right about us this summer and I take everything I read with a grain of salt.

Give it another 8 weeks and we will be reading about how we plan on buying a complete new squad if you add all the players we are linked with and reality is we will do very little in January.

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Out of interest, is there anyone here that wouldn't have been over the moon with Fellaini, Thiago & Coentrao on loan with a view to buy? If Moyes has made this blunder then I hope he learns from it. When a player of Thiago's quality is available and we are desperate for a player in that particular position then you must sign him. If we had signed Thiago, paid the Fellaini clause and gotten Coentrao on loan they would have cost a total of around £50m if you include all the costs.

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Don't know Sydney I think it was hoenigsteen or someone like him that thinks Coentrao isn't anygood, I know nothing about him myself

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Pardoe, RM paid €30m for him so he must be half decent. Certainly good enough to take on loan anyway. There are not very many top LB's around to be honest.

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08 Sep 2013 21:41:42
Interesting article today about how the Ronaldo deal was occupying most of our cash and all of our time until about two weeks before deadline day when it became apparent that the Bale deal was dragging on so long that Madrid wouldn't sell. Plans seem to suggest that we will move for him again in the summer - if we move for another midfielder and Coentrao in January then I think we will focus our attention on him again next summer.

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Depending on Madrid's season up to January I think we may go in for him then. We all know of the divide at Madrid between the Spanish and the rest of the squad and apparently Ozil was a bit of a favourite in both camps, take away Coentrao and how many friends does Ronaldo have there?

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Well Marcelo and Ramos are close friends of Ronaldo and they're Brazilian and Spanish respectively so I don't think that'd be a problem Anon.

I think if he doesn't sign a new contract within this season he is more or less definitely coming back to Man Utd. Unless he's just scaring RM into giving him a super mega deal, but now they have Bale (depending on how he does) they might now get so worried about Ronaldo's intentions.

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Maybe Madrid knew Ronaldo was likely to not sign a new contract, hence the overspend on Bale to appease fans and replace him?

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08 Sep 2013 19:12:25
Though I'd post after simmering down after the transfer window debacle. However since missing the Liverpool game due to me signing my life away by getting married a week ago today, I can't by help feel sorry for DM. The guy must have reached for a bottle of scotch late Monday night. I must admit though I like Fellainis attitude, he clearly wants to succeed at Utd. I think he will help us a lot at set pieces where pore defending has see us concede quite a few goals. Whilst attacking set pieces he will also be very useful. Although I hope RVP won't be taking corners as he is loss not being in the box. Would if be better to have Roonet take corners or be in the box and perhaps have Kagawa take corners? Apart from these three we don't really have any decent corner takers. Nani remains a possibility if he regains his confidence and form. But that's still(if). I'm looking forward to seeing how the team will look now and hopefully Giggs will become more of an assistant to Moyes and help the younger players in FA cup games and maybe Capital one cup games if we get a kinder draw than that of Liverpool.

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Congrats mate, but Moyes did turn down the chance to sign Thiago for €25m. So should we really be feeling sorry for him? Or does dithering Dave as he is known by, deserve everything he got?

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Congrats mate.

I just think Moyes wanted to pick out his own player, one that he had time to scout in his own detailed (slow) and structured way.

Fair play to him, we are stronger than last year - we held on to everyone and added Fellaini. Plus the youngens are another year older

I think it was clear Moyes wants to bring in another more creative centre mid, but he wants to blend a player into the squad.

Fergy's choices were Strootman and Thiago by the looks of it. A positive way to look at it is that Moyes is his own man, and wants his own players. He will have to stand or fall by those decisions, but I can't critisize him for that, yet!

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Cheers Syd. I meant about Woodward conducting him during the transfer window. After all as our manager he is entitled to his judgement and opinions but I'm sure he will be left feeling rather frustrated and perhaps angry towards an inept Woodward. Personally I would have signed Thiago and have tried to sign him very early during the transfer window. let's move on an enjoy this new season of football fingers crossed what will be herald the Moyes era

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08 Sep 2013 21:36:04
congratulations hatter . IMO Our spine is the strongest in the league,, I wouldn't swap ddg for any other keeper. rio and vidic for any other pair and rvp for any other striker and I believe that carrick and fellaini will be the most dominant midfield pairing in the league. so the 2 challanges for moyes will be to 1) generate flair. rejuvinate rooney kagawa and nani and bring all the undoubted potential out of janazui zaha hernandez and wellbeck and hope and pray that evra can regain his confidence which must be shattered. 2) to be brave and decisive with rotating his 1st 11. rio carrick vidic rvp must be rotated at the right time. the squad is strong in most areas.

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Syd, is that information you've heard recently because I swear you had a different opinion of Moyes and the way things have gone for him in the transfer window not that long ago?

If he could have signed Thiago but chose not to then I've certainly got to ask questions about my opinion of him because that is just plain bloody crazy! He was easily the best, most acquirable midfielder this past summer.

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Reports being leaked now via the media tie in with what the editor said at the time. We know we were heavily linked to Thiago at the time and it wasn't til a month after the story broke that BM signed him. Soon as they came in he signed for them. I think he was ready to sign for us, but Moyes decided not to sanction it, then joined BM. If true that is a diabolical decision by Moyes. Clearly SAF's plans for midfield were Strootman & Thiago. I can understand Moyes wanting his own players, but Fellaini & Thiago would have transformed our midfield completely and there would have been change to buy Coentrao. I hope Moyes learns from his dithering as we have missed the boat here.

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Dodgy, say we had messi lined up and Moyes decided to do his own analysis then we lost the player because Dave wasn't sure he could handle the premiership.

at least we could say Moyes was being his own man

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Andrew, that's a bit of a fatuous argument to be fair. Thiago is not Messi.

One is a young, developing player with potential, but still possibly a bit of a gamble.

The other is possibly the greatest player of his generation.

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Stevie, you're totally right but the point is how good does a player have to be before its a no brainer to sign him?

utd are crying out for a player like alcantara so I'm disappointed we didn't seize the opportunity to sign him.

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08 Sep 2013 17:46:02
EDs what are the rules about a player being allowed to play for another club after January if he has featured for his old club before January in the Champions League?

Does being on the bench before the transfer also make the player unavailable after January?


I am asking this since we are interested in Coentrao. {Ed044's Note - If he appears in play and both teams are in the next round he is not available.}

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Good question MB, and thanks for the info Ed!

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DB it doesn't look good if these are the rules.

Coentrao is almost certain to feature in at least 1 of 6 group stage games and Real Madrid are more or less certain to come out of their group into the next round.

Baines probably?

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Play Coentrao in the league and Evra in the cups, maybe the competition will spur Evra on to play better, seemed to work last year with Buttners arrival

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Anon it's seemed to have work so far this year with Moyes bidding for Baines. Evra has been playing the best football for the past 2-3 seasons, whether he can keep it up now the transfer window is closed will remain to be seen.

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08 Sep 2013 16:13:12
Read on a site the Glazers aren't happy with Woodward during the transfer window and want answers.
We could give you some. Fans been saying things and nobody listening.

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08 Sep 2013 15:19:20
I haven't seen much on here about SAFs autobiography due out soon. There is a lot of speculation about what he will cover however for example if he drags the Rooney situation up again will it give Moyes an even bigger headache at a time when he least needs it. The timing seems poor to me.

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I agree. But at least the truth will come out about things.

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Red Man

I fully expect Fergie to flare things up. I just hope the little amount of grey matter that Rooney has helps him take it easy and not throw a strop again. Fergie has done more for this club than any other individual arguably, but he is a bitter unforgiving human being.(in some cases)

Syd

I can count you loads of bio and autobiographies that represent facts that are far from the truth. I am not sure if we would EVER come to know about what happened.

Deeps.

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Deeps, I think we all know that SAF wanted to get Rooney out of the club this summer. Preferably abroad. But you are right, I doubt he would openly admit that at this stage, but actions speak louder than words and mentioning in a press conference that Rooney asked to leave says it all doesn't it! SAF wanted Nani out too and he has just signed a new deal, so perhaps Moyes wants Rooney to stay?

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Lol Syd, SAF's version of the truth

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There is, of course, the option for SAF to put things straight or not mention it at all.

We should remember that in the same way Moyes successfully sued Rooney there remains the possibility for Rooney to sue SAF which would be very difficult for all parties.

I feel the timing is not ideal unless it shows the events were as Rooney said and it was a misunderstanding. Some papers have reported United accept he didn't ask for a transfer this time.

The rumours are that he won't tackle the owners situation which is hardly surprising. We know what SAF did when Stam and Keane wrote things he did not like but is he really going to be allowed to spill the beans at such a vital time for the club and its new manager, who SAF recommended?

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Syd

I don't think this was SAF's idea halfway down the season. Remember the presser post the Madrid Q/F second leg? He looked determined quashing the rumours.

That "offline" meeting IMO was the decider I guess. There must have been something in that interaction that rubbed Fergie the wrong way. After that, yes he was intent on giving Wayne the boot. Once he recuperates from his hip surgery, he won't be too glad to see Wayne sticking around ;) . Especially the crowd reaction bit. I completely agree, Moyes is his own man and he wanted Rooney to say and that's what happened.

Deeps.

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AJH, fair point ;)

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Maybe SAF might come out and be honest about the glazers instead of saying they are best owners we could have hoped for

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Not while he is still involved and on the payroll ain't going to happen

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More interesting will be Keith Gillespie's book which is coming out which states that he used to be Fergie's bookie runner and he would go and put bets on for the boss

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Did he not come out with that story way back, KLOOT, when his gambling problems first came to light, or am I mixing him up with someone else?

Could have sworn I heard it years ago.

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08 Sep 2013 14:28:22
Coentrau passes to Fabregas, on to Thiago who crosses for Ronaldo and. the MUFC fans wake up to see Cleverley misplace a pass to Welbeck

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What's frustrating for me is hearing that SAF set up the Thiago deal months ago and when Moyes was asked to okay the deal to get it wrapped up, he says he is worried about whether he can handle the physicality of the EPL and decided to pull the plug. Now for me that is a woeful decision by the new manager and one that will cost us I'm sure.

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Well, well, well, it seems my source was right all along. the Glazers were expecting 3 signings, one of which was to indeed be a marquee signing. Reports coming out of Florida are stating that the Glazers are furious with woodentop and are demanding an explanation as to why they did not materialize. He WAS given a no ceiling budget, and were convinced that a BIG NAME signing WOULD be coming to OT, along with Fellaini AND Baines! Ronaldo being the preferred marquee. January could now be busy.

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Dear mr anniewithoutmakeup
ngiak is impressed with your Sydney-like extrapolation of heresay into your greatest prediction coming true
ngiak is truly amazed
gan

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The glazers can put whatever spin they want on this but the buck stops with them.woodward is there employee and in such a high profile position would surely be in daily contact with the beverley hillbillys.if the fans could see everything going tits up then it would of been blantently obvious to them early in the transfer window.all this bs about it will be put right in january is just that bs, any decent player we might be interested in will be cup tied either domestically or european.any big moves if any won't happen till the summer in my opinion.

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"19 Jun 2013 17:13:38
to all the hungry spendthrifts over here
there will be two additions coming very soon
theoretically by next week so ngiak hears
but some processes may take longer
gan"

careful Ngiak ;)

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Annie, just give it a rest. No matter how you twist it or turn it, you were wrong.

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08 Sep 2013 14:03:03
""There was the possibility of joining Manchester United, but I stayed at Real Madrid, and that's what matters, " Coentrao told reporters.

"It would have been bad if I had to stay despite having the chance to move to a better club, but that didn't happen as I already am at the best club in the world.

"I want to do better than I did last season, although I was at a very high level already. I want to show everyone that I deserve to be at Real Madrid."


Interesting comment by Coentrao, I guess he was not crying then when the deal fell through :)

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Are you serious Shahram? Do you always think players are telling the truth? They need to keep the fans onside. let's not forget he handed in a transfer request, that says it all.

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I know, I am just amused by the sequence of what the media reports.

First ancelloti comes out says he is not in the squad because he wants to leave, then ancelloti says he is staying after they had a clear the air discussion, Then they screw us on the loan, then he was supposedly crying and now this.

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It's crazy Shahram, every man and his dog knows Coentrao was itching to leave RM. Shame we couldn't have got it done earlier instead of wasting months on Baines.

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I have now seen Coentrao play twice in the last six months.

At Old Trafford he couldn't cope with Giggs (up to the sending off) and at Windsor Park on Friday night he couldn't handle Niall McGinn.

He is a good footballer when going forward but can't defend to save his life.

I sincerely hope I never see him play LB for United.

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Bear,

Based on two games? The guy plays for Real Madrid.

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Bear

At the last world cup he was probably the best all round left back. I think you might be jumping the gun here as he is pretty tough defender and I don't remember giggs giving him a hard time in CL and missed th NI game.

He did put a cross on the money for Ronaldo to score and not even from a dead ball situation but active play and quite a difficult angle.

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08 Sep 2013 14:00:37
Appears "The Equaliser" (Woodward) is saying he didn't expect to buy many players this last window, and that the January window is where we will be busiest.
For me he cocked it up and is trying to pull a rabbit out the hat

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Couldn't agree more Pardoe.

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Is that a rumour or did he really say that?

If true lol, god help us and he should just shut up as he is making himself look even a bigger fool/tool. No one does any major transfer business in January.

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According to a reporter on TV the next window is where he said we would do the biz

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Didnt expect many players?

That explains why we tried to sign 5 different layers on deadline day.

Woodward just trying to cover up. He should rather shut up and accept the blame.

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January window? Which of the best players in the world would forsake playing in the CL for the rest of the season?

Any January purchases are likely to be lesser players only further confirming what we have said many times. We have backed ourselves into an alley because of a shocking embarrassing summer window. Making jam tomorrow promises about January would be hollow. Maybe if Cointreau didn't play in the CL we might take him on loan but big buys are very unlikely indeed in January especially as it is World Cup year.

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Red Man, I would like to see us agree a deal for one or two players between now and the World Cup. Obviously they cannot officially sign until July 1st, but deals can be agreed beforehand. That would IMO be good business and it would spur on the players until the season's finished.

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08 Sep 2013 13:30:42
Apparently not making a marquee signing hasn't gone down too well with the Glazers.

I find this hard to believe.

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I have read a few different things for the past week or so about them being furious with Ed Woodward for not signing Ronaldo and looking for a few other players as well as they were expecting a big summer I think too help us stay top with such a huge change at the club. I would like to believe it but it is hard too as the owners have took us for one hell of a cr. py ride.

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LMAOF

I think it is good cop, bad cop stuff and all the papers picking up on the original story which was based on no evidence of it being true.

BTW it is interesting that Mr. Woodwork has not said a word. I am looking forward to DM press conference on Friday :)

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Well a marquee signing would have been good for the glazers as we are on the stock market, surely if he strengthened our team with big steller signings then our stock would go up and generate more money for them as well as more trophies?

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Anon

I hope you do realize the stock going up only matters if they are planning on diluting more and issuing more shares.

They have no ownership in the stock and will not benefit directly in stock prize movement and only get a bump in enterprise value that can only be realized if they sell or issue more shares, or borrow against it, I hope not.

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08 Sep 2013 13:27:08
Just came across this and thought I would share it with you, sorry for copy & paste:

Bale and Modric are teammates.
Kaka is at Milan.
Eto'o plays under Mourinho.
Mourinho at Chelsea.
Zidane and Ancelotti work together.
Rooney plays under Moyes.
Flamini at Arsenal.
Liverpool are at the top of the table.

Seems like we are going back in time!

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Everything on that list will stay at least continue for this season, except liverpool being on top :)

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08 Sep 2013 13:00:10
A few rumours doing the rounds today:
1. United want to get Rooney to sign a new deal which will keep him at the club 'well into his thirties'
2. Valencia is looking for a new deal but its being held up by Rooney talk
3. Moyes is trying to push through a revamp for the scouting system due to the poor transfer window.
4. Jones has come out and defended Moyes training methods ( anyone tell me what they are as there seems to be a lot of talk surrounding them lately)

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It appears it heavily weighted towards fitness as Phil Neville said in an interview before joining United "One thing you can be sure of there will not be a fitter team in the prem"

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The players we tried to sign did not require any SCOUTING.

The world knows how good Sneijder, Herrera, Fellaini, Baines, Coentrao are. They don't require SCOUTING.

Its just sheer incompetence in negotiating deals.

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08 Sep 2013 12:29:12
I think next summer could see a bit of a clear out. I think this season we couldn't move certain players out for the fees we wanted and I think moyes wanted to give everyone season to impress with a clean slate. Hence nani's new deal. Next summer should finally see giggs retiring along with Rio. Evra will most likely depart and probably one or both of nani and Anderson. Question marks remain over Rooneys future as well. Add to that macheda, bebe, petrucci, amos etc could be a lot on the way out.

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MrE, you need to have teams interested in the players first before you can sell them. There wasn't queues forming for any of them this summer. Whether they are overpriced by the club I do not know, but it seems odd that we failed to sell anyone other than Wootton.

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Sydney

That is because they are mostly poor to average and we price them too high and their wages are too high so the deals don't work for most teams.

MrE

I agree with your view and believe young or valencia will also be on the cut line.

All in all if the results don't go our way this year, I can see a minimum of 5 or 6 players some gone from the first team squad due to retirement and some due to realizing they are never going to come through. I just hope we sign more than 1 player next summer :)

I also do not believe keeping Rooney is a forgone conclusion and a lot of it depends on how he performs this year and the club either way will be prepared unlike this year.

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08 Sep 2013 13:47:00
Sydney by your own admission there was plenty of interest in nani, just not at a price acceptable to united. I think moyes wants to give chances, also some of those we try to sell will be at lower prices.

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Shahram, I agree they are overpriced.

MrE, I think Nani was the only one who got interest and to be fair it was a lot of interest as he was available for cheap. Well that was until early July when Moyes told the MU board to give Nani a new deal.

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Is it true that Bebe is on 30k euros per week and even when he is on loan United have to pay 24k of his salary? Mindboggling to say the least.

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Raph, when Bebe signed for MU he was put on a training salary like what Pogba, Januzaj etc etc get put on. It was for £90k a year. I can assure you that he hasn't been given a new deal since. Also when you consider Kuszczak, Diouf, Obertan were put on £16k a week, why would Bebe be put on £25k a week?

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Sydney thanx for the clarification. Read an article on the net which went deep into the subject and also pointed out that it cost us 610000euros per match he appeared in.

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Raph, they are simply dividing the amount he "apparently" cost by how many games he's played. People forget much of the £7.4m was based appearances which he never made.

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Saw the same article which stated bebe was on 25k per week and were still paying 20k per week during the loan

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08 Sep 2013 08:38:49
Hi guys, was just wondering what everyone's opinion is regardinging the amount of foreign players in our league. Obviously this has a huge influence on the quality of the England team but, any changes to the amount u field would surely have huge changes not only on how utd compete in Europe but also all English teams.

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Can't see it happening due to European law for starters and also every league would have to implement similar schemes. I can't see the glazers/abramovich/sheik mansour wanting their squads handicapped against other European teams should only England implement such rules.

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I think the primary problem is the price teams get quoted to buy English players. There are plenty of players in the Championship who could succeed at a higher level but, if you know you'll have to pay £10m and you could get two squad players from Europe for the same price, why would you take the gamble?

Players like Jordan Rhodes, Liam Bridcutt and Matt Phillips are definitely more capable than other players arriving in the Prem this summer. But, because they don't get a chance to move up and develop, they don't turn into the players they might do. This reduces the pool for England - players don't all develop at the same time, but now, if you want to succeed in the top flight, you usually have to be there before you're 20.

The best way to break that cycle would be to share the money out more evenly in the English game and then introduce a compulsory tribunal system to set fees.

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Just noise to be honest. It all starts with youth couching and at the moment england is far behind quite a few countries and the gap seems widening. They are obviously being coached differently when a average spanish youngster at 17 has a better first touch and passing than even a established english pl player.

Take a look at one of our players Welbeck who is now making all the news because of 2 goals against Moldovia.

Do you think he would even get into the Italy, French, Spain, German, Argentina, Brazil, Columbia, Holland, Portugal etc etc sides?

It is an issue when lampard and gerrard and carrick at 30 something are still being picked for the first 11.

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Couldnt u put in place a set number of non british players brought in 1 window, i.e u can sign 2 non brits a season so if united brought ronaldo and kagawa in the sunmer that's there quota took up for the year and the only signings from then on could be brits?
Very hard to implement thou {Ed044's Note - If you are going to do it then it would need to be England rather than Britain. It would very quickly drag down the quality of the club game whilst the only benefit would be an increased pot of English players to choose from for the National side.}

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Darklard

I agree with some of what you say on pricing and think they are also overhyped. Watched the under 21s the other night and will hughes and thought to myself what is the big deal especially when you watch some of the other under 21 players for other countries.

They is talk of 15 million pounds for him and I think you are nuts as a club to pay that kind of money as continental europe and south america will offer you cheaper and better players at that age at a fraction of the price.

The portuguese clubs have made a living in recent years by buying very cheap talent from South america and selling for a kings ransom.

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The fa and england in general have this problem when something goes wrong with the national team the premier league is one of the first to be blamed. We shouldn't be looking at what the problem is but why.
The truth is compared to other european players our english players don't stand a chance. Our youth players can't compete. Why would EPL teams go buy spanish player etc if we could get english player who are near there level and don't need to be acclimatised for a similiar price. The truth is we are bot good enough the system needs to be changed so that there is more stabillity and the staff and coaching methods need to be changed.
Instead of a system handicapping EPL teams so we are less able to compete in eurpe less than we are currently we should be looking to implement a benefit system where teams are rewarded for homegrown players playing a certain amount of minutes etc.

P.S. sorry about the spelling mistakes

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To be honest if ure son is looking like he could become a top footballer and he watches the prem, who do u want him aspiring to Ronaldo or Walcott? RVP or Carroll imo all this talk is just a cheap kop out from an FA stuck in there ways

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