Manchester United Banter Archive January 09 2013

 

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09 Jan 2013 22:59:48
It appears that Zaha is destined to join us. I hardly watch Championship football so was wondering is he good enough? Interested to hear everyone's thoughts.

Cheers,

Rudderpost.

Believable1 Unbelievable1

I really rate him needs some fine tuning but definitely a very talented player, i work with a palace fan who told me altho he can be frustrating at times but when on form hes the best winger in the top two divisions which is a bold statement. for me its a good move coz we desperately need someone with flair who wants to beat a fullback, im getting tired of our wingers.

marlow

Agree2 Disagree2

Imo he has huge potential but he'll never be a world beater.

I'm happy to see him join, gives us another option out wide however it probably rules out Gaitan and Rodriguez.

Great english root to the squad now though; Jones, smalling, carrick, tunners, powell, amos, m.keane, young, welbeck, rooney, w.keane. and now Zaha and possibly Baines.

so yeah, expect Nani type performances for a year or so then you'll see a fairly decent young english forward appear on the scene.

now that i think about it infact, if the lad works on his finishing and ends up with real scoring ability we could be seeing ourselves signing up a poor mans Henry.

The Moon.

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I think he is a very good prospect that could shock a few people.... He has a great physique for a winger and silly pace and a decent end product he just needs to be refined to cut down the tricks and get a better end product but he can definitely beat a man.

Agree1 Disagree3

He reminds me of a young Nani, very fast, strong and knows when to use certain skills, unlike Nani you don't get as frustrated with Zaha.

Could be a class winger for us in years to come.

-JakeW

Agree2 Disagree4

Hes nani but worse

Agree6 Disagree1

Jake, your comment was Louis Walsh-esque.

He reminds me of a young Nani :)

StevieK

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09 Jan 2013 22:45:01
This is mainly targeted at RED_SKY. You earlier said that you would rather spend money elsewhere than bring back Ronaldo. Well, how can you justify this argument? Brendan imo made some excellent arguments saying that we could improve all the areas that we need to and still afford Ronaldo. Lampard would be added experience which we will need when Giggs and Scholes retire. Cole is a brilliant replacement for Evra (even though he is a bit of a moron). Strootman could come in this January and the sales of Evra, Nani and potentially Welbeck would go a long way to paying for Ronaldo - Nike may also help.

Its quite plausible and I really hope that is happens.

Fresh!

Believable2 Unbelievable9

Come on Fresh, much as everyone would like ot see Atonaldo back, the amount of money involved seems better spent elsewhere strengthening the team. Lampard and Cole would merely be sticking plasters. We have a few serious requirements that need fairly urgent attention which means the cost to get Ronaldo back seems too high

AJH

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What people don't take into consideration is that this is Fergie's team and not ours. We can all say they are sticking plasters and that the money can be spent better elsewhere but if he wants Ronaldo then he will go and get him as long as Ronaldo wants to leave and he gets the Glazers backing which for either Ronaldo or Messi i think he would even at a huge price as either would be a licence to print money and over 5 years would pay us back 3 fold at least. Fergie may think it is worth getting a Strootman or similar with the money from Nani's sale, Lampard on a free for a year and either cole or Evra for another year if it means bringing arguably the best player he has ever had back to the club they both love. Then the following summer he has Ronaldo plus a good budget for the left back/Lampard replacement we need. I'm not saying it is going to happen but it IS a real possibility no matter what the 'experts' on here think.

Personally i would take strootman/wanyama along with Lampard if it meant Ronaldo coming back as that team alone would win the league and be very close in the champions league. I'd also leave Cole well alone and give Evra/Fabio/Buttner another year. Then next summer get 2 world class players who would join Ronaldo, Rooney, Van Persie etc at a team capable of beating the very best around europe/world.

Brendan

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I'm not sure that is how SAF would see it to be honest AJH. SAF really understands the value of experience, that is something that Lampard and Cole have in abundance. They are both quality players - Lampard would be a bit part player but Cole would be a regular. It certainly makes for an interesting debate anyway!

Fresh!

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Fresh!

I don't consider signing Frank Lampard to be a good move whatsoever. It would mean no Strootman, or whoever else we've been linked with.....they'd then join a different team with no chance of us going for them again.

In other words, we'd have 3 over-the-hill midfielders, one who's going to retire again at the end of this season due to his illness still having a vice-like grip on him....then Carrick and Cleverly. Oh yeah, Anderson who we are lucky to see 5-10 times a season.

Appalling midfield options for a team supposedly capable of winning the champs league.

PS - Stop dreaming about Ronaldo, Zaha is our new winger. Yep, I'm not happy about that, either.
RED_SKY

Agree6 Disagree4

Why would it mean that we don't sign Strootman? We are capable of signing more than one midfielder.

I'm with Brendan on this one.

Fresh!

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Fresh!

I'll tell you why mate. If we did sign Lampard, it'd be the first CM player SAF has signed in (how many years?! 5-6, even more?)

No way would he sign two. The man has some kind of weird point to prove, IMO. He feels that he has to stick his guns and we will NEVER sign two central midfielders as long as the old folks are still ticking away.

So if you want Lampard, wave goodbye to Strootman et al. Not happening. For a start, Strootman would end up going to Milan or someone - so if we wanted him after that, he'd be £25million or more. No way he stays at PSV for another season, if we don't get him NOW or in the summer, he's gone.

Same goes for any other targets. SAF just has this stagnant approach to his central midfield - he refuses to play youngsters and refuses to beleive that his 'old guard' have aged. He's stuck in a time-warp, wrapped up in sentiment and this is why our CM has not progressed in the slightest in the past few years. SAF won't allow it to.

RED_SKY

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Fresh, apparently we're not capable of signing a midfielder.
CDR

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I agree with red sky regarding the midfield but Fergie would still be only buying 1 midfielder in Strootman and we'd be swapping Scholes' experience for Lampard on a free. Not a major overhaul of a position that really has baffled me over the past few years but a bit of change. I think scholes will re-retire, if we win the league i think giggs will join him and fletcher i also think is finished unfortunately. Thats 3 players we have used in the centre gone so even fergie will realise he needs at least two and the experience of Lampard and youth of Strootman wouldnt be the worst thing that could happen.

Brendan

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Brendan

Lamps and Strootman, I wouldn't complain about.

But I just see SAF giving a press conference with Lampard, calling him the man to change our midfield up a bit. And I don't the thought of an aging Chelsea castoff, being the face to freshen things up.

Can he still do a job? Yes. Can he do the job for 4-5yrs? Probably not. Can Strootman? 5-10yrs, more like.

I just don't see SAF buying 2 new CM's. Cannot see it at all.

RED_SKY

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Not in the recent past no but i really think he doesnt have much choice if the 3 i mentioned all call it a day. If they don't all end their careers in the summer then you may be right. Hard to read fergie though when it comes to buying/selling.

Brendan

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We'll see who is right and who is wrong shortly.

Fresh!

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As always, I hope I'm wrong!

RED_SKY

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I agree with RED_SKY's comment's, only one CM will be signed IMO. We have other positions to address too. So I'd also prefer a Strootman or a Bender who will improve over time rather than an ex-rival stop gap measure.

Gav

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As Chelsea players go, I have never hated Lampard. His ego hasnt seemed on Terry or Cole's level, great player, just disliked his club.

Id have no problem cheering for Frank (Cole, different story). But we're supposed to be looking to future, yeah?

We bring 38yr old Scholes back from retirement, and Fletcher comes back from career-ending illness (alas, not the same player, not Daz's fault). We get rid of our future CM lynchpin (Pogba) and bring in 34yr old Lampard, who Chelsea don't need anymore.

That, to me, would not be 'looking to the future'!

RED_SKY

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09 Jan 2013 22:37:08
So with SNEIJDER gone to galatas and fergie dismissing lamps and cole, who else are we going to get? I'm really asking those who's dads friends taxi drivers dog is in the know!

Jay-c

Believable3 Unbelievable3

09 Jan 2013 22:28:05
If Sneijder rejects the move to Galatasaray, SAF could pick him up for as little as £5m, briding the gap in net wage between the tax system in turkey and the UK

Believable0 Unbelievable5

09 Jan 2013 22:27:47
Surely at the reported 10 million euro
Sneijder is worth a punt. I'm not sayin he's a must have but would certainly add some quality. Any thoughts?

Believable6 Unbelievable3

10m would be worth it, but his wages would not.

Red Joe

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09 Jan 2013 22:26:19
got a bad feeling about game on sunday, we are leaking goals, and can't always expect rvp to pull us out all the time. We are in danger of being classed as a 1 man team, our luck is going to run out sometime and i think it could very well be on sunday
jaycee

Believable3 Unbelievable13

Robin Van Persie scored 30 % of our goals. All other top 10 goal scores of the top leagues have over 40 % of their team's goals, bar Ronaldo ( 38 % ).

If anything, we are the complete opposite of one man team.

Mick

Agree7 Disagree0

Nice! You should know all about that Suarez FC

aaallj5

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Have some faith jaycee, we've beaten Chelski, City and pretty much all the BIG teams.Fergie knows what he's doing.Theres a formula to Utd/Pool games, it goes like this 1xGerrard goal, 1xRed Card, 1xpenalty and 1xmad ref decision but I think it'll be 3-1 Utd.Keep the faith brother, In Fergie we Trust.
RedKen

Agree4 Disagree0

09 Jan 2013 22:25:50
What sort of player do you guys think SAF needs to recruit personally feel as though a defender is needed and a midfield enforcer what are your views?

Believable2 Unbelievable2

I honestly don't understand the clamour for another defender.

We have three of the brightest young central defending talents in the country, in Evans, Smalling and Jones. we also have Vidic to provide the experience for another couple of years, assuming Rio might be leaving. Maybe when Vidic leaves, we might need a ready-made, experienced replacement. By that time, all of the above three will be much more experienced and we'll hopefully have Michael Keane coming through

At right back, we have Rafael who looks like a very good player in the making, with one of Smalling or Jones covering as more defensively minded options, and young Daehli coming through.

At left back, we are probably weakest, though I still have high hopes for Fabio as our first choice left back, after Evra leaves, with Buttner covering, depending on whether or not he makes the grade after some more playing time.

All in all, a good, young promising defence. The only addition that would maybe improve it, IMO, would be Baines at left back to allow Fabio two or three years to progress without having to flog him to death, but if it doesn't happen, I still think we'll be alright.

StevieK

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OK, so I may have been hasty Stevie. I agree we have more than enough options in defence....apart form left back.

AJH

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09 Jan 2013 22:18:31
Isn't about time we all got a grip!! Ronaldo is not coming back, our best player is Robin and we will keep Wayne, no signings in the window we will go with what we have.

Red Daz.

Believable8 Unbelievable2

There you go ruining my jan :-( lol! Now we will all have to go back to discussing pogba
Chris the REDman

Agree7 Disagree0

09 Jan 2013 22:03:11
Can someone tell me please why we are talking so much about Zaha, is it just a case that people are looking for us to sign someone or what is it.From what Ive seen of Zaha, he's quick, skillful, never really finishes his runs, doesnt score too often and really I think 'we already have one of them' he's called Nani.
However looking at Thomas Ince he seems to be scoring a whole lot more and progressing into a more finished article, I think with a bit of Fergie magic he could be pretty damn good. He will be cheaper and is available too.I know he didnt make it at pool but hes come a long way since then and I think he is the man we shud be going after. Opinions?

Believable5 Unbelievable1

Zaha is so overhyped it's unreal. He's fast but has no real passing ability, shooting ability or vision. I don't think he'll make it at utd as I think it would be years before he could improve enough to play for us. Saying that, what do I know, I might have been unlucky and only watched the games he was cr-p in, maybe only watched him 5/6 times.
I think some fans on here hear a rumour of us getting linked to someone and that makes them think that player is better than anything we've already got, it's wierd.

Snakey

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09 Jan 2013 21:18:17
who would swap rooney for say wilshere and maybe vermalen okay vermalen hasent been the best of defenders in the past year but could find a bit of form beside vidic and wilshere speaks for itself

Believable0 Unbelievable13

I wouldn't even do it for Wilshire and Vermaelen together never mind just one of them.

AvidDevil

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No name, don't agree at all.

Ince going to Liverpool.

A

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09 Jan 2013 19:54:17
Good luck to Petrucci and Wooton at Peterborough, they are both in need of some more competitive games... should be able to get plenty if game time and start to show if they can make it. Hoping Petrucci can kick on.

DodgyBanter

Believable5 Unbelievable0

09 Jan 2013 19:41:07
Oops think that went early.

Ronny played with maritimo then went straight into sportings first team then ours in his first 2 years.

Pogba played head and shoulders above all youth players and reserve players for 3 years and everyone following him could see that. The difference isn't how many games they played at all it's just as I have stated SAF is fine playin younger signings where as our youth products are to play their way through the system irrelevant of how good they are? How does that work? Surely someone brought through utd would be the one as you said would have earned the right to play.

If we still had pogba and we bought powell who would you say had the right to play?

Powell is not a pogba replacement anyway they two together would have made an amazing pair IMO.

Powell has played for Crewe for 2 years yet he isn't walking into the team is he? So that's your arguement out the window as first team football makes no difference unless it's at the same level utd are already playing at.

I still maintain that SAF handled it badly. It could well have only been down to the agent but SAF actions gave him and his agent nothing but more of a reason to leave.

So again how had Ronaldo at 18 earned the right to guaranteed starts for our first team? Still unanswered I see!

Oh and it's well publicised that we knew nothing of note about ronny and when we enquired Wenger was already ahead so SAF moved quickly to get it sewn up.

Jono

Believable11 Unbelievable4

And you would want to keep a player looking for any excuse to leave?
Chris the REDman

Agree1 Disagree0

We signed Ronaldo from a team playing in their countries top league, a country which is very competitive I might add and a country which some of the top players in Europe started their career in.

His first season he started 14 games for us and made 14 sub appearances. So he wasn't guaranteed a starting spot each week was he, the following season he started 25 and made 8 sub appearances, natural progression.

How can a player who graduates from youth football in 2010-2011 season expect guaranteed game time in the 2011-2012 season?

He was great in youth football, as was Tunnicliffe, Keane, Lingard, Cole, Morrison, yes Pogba was our starman but if you really followed him a closely as you say, he was not head and shoulders ahead of players come reserve football. You cannot compare youth football to senior football as I keep explaining.

As for Powell, he is going to managed correctly, he has played senior football but in league 2, again a massive jump up in standard, so how can you expect him to go right into the team week in, week out?

You have to manage players development correctly, they have to show the correct attitude and then they will go on to have long successful careers, SAF said and Owen admitted, Liverpool ruined Owen by over playing him at a young age and he burnt out.

So name me the last 18-19 yr old CM SAF signed and throw straight into the team in CM? Ronaldo was attacking winger who could be given a chance to make mistakes without being punished but CM is a position that requires patience and discipline so they need to be managed into that position gradually.

So because by the time SAF enquired about Ronaldo, Wenger already had, this means we weren't watching him, seeing how he was progressing? All that means is Wenger picked up the phone first!

Ports

Agree4 Disagree3

Chris

You don't ask for things to stay if your really wanting to go do you? He was asking for certain thing so therefore was willing to stay.

Ports

Right so Ronny graduated to sportings team a year earlier than pogba and when pogba was mustering a full 5 games for us Ronny gets 28 at the same age, that proves my point.

SAF is willing to throw signed youngsters in at the deep end but not guys with us that we develop. Look at the examples. Powell at 18 has a couple of games under his belt yet our best young reservist in Petrucci has only just been put out to loan at the championship?

Petrucci will need to prove himself like pogba was going to have to yet Powell has had as many games as pogba while he is younger and had not proved or in your words earned any place ahead of Petrucci or the likes.

Pogba was also looking for assurances for this season, a year many on here had earmarked as hie real breakthrough year had he still been here so I fail to see your point as that's 2 years after last competing in youth football and the same age as Neymar etc.

Pogba was stand out in both youth and reserves mate. Many on here were talking and commenting on how well he was doing and how many thought he was ready for the step up as he was coasting in the reserves to no major gain as a player. It's like a player of Owens ability being made to play at youth level when in reality he was ready for the step up. He only burnt out through his body being injury prone. Many players have played from that age and been fine, pogba was not one for picking up niggling hamstring injuries or the likes so won't suffer the same fate IMO.

Physically he was ready, mentally he was ready but SAF didn't want to offer what was needed to keep him IMO so he has gone.

We can hardly remember the last CMer he bought never mind a young one especially as th CM has been covered by mainly Scholes, Kane and Carrick for almost 20 years. Since Scholes we have not produced a top CMer at all so again pogba would have been the one to break that mould.

Jono

Agree4 Disagree3

Jono - We had an agreement with Sporting to take him a year after we signed him but after lots of clubs stepped up interest we agreed with Sporting to take him a year early.... Fergie knew lots about Ronaldo.

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Ports, just to let you know - when you said 'myself and, I suggest StevieK' in an earlier post on this subject - you got it 100% right mate :)

StevieK

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SteveK

Did you think Ronny had earned his right to the game time he recieved as soon as he arrived?

Or would you say it was down to the talent he possessed instead?

Jono

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Ports

Name me the last centre fielder Fergie bought (excluding Carrick) that has turned out as a success.

His track record with being able to spot them and buying them has been poor. He has missed the boat on this for 5 years and would have thought after the CL embarrassment he would have made it his top priority but still chasing wingers.

Shahram

Agree1 Disagree1

Jono, I don't know what goes on in the manager's head, but it seems to work more times than not.

I'll be honest - I knew nothing about Ronaldo until the friendly against them, but I'm pretty sure that when we signed him, he wasn't laying down conditions before he'd even arrived.

If Pogba goes on to be a world great, good luck to him, and maybe as he gets older, he'll mature a little. But not too many have left United at a young age and gone on to achieve great things.

I still think even if Fergie had bent over backwards and persuaded him to stay (against all my natural instincts on young players getting special treatment), that something else would have come up at a later date.

StevieK

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SteveK

I agree tht it would be cheeky of an 18/19 year old making playing demands coming from another club but in response to yours and ports point of having to earn the right to play for us pogba had been here three years and was asking for games. Ronny at the same age was bought and was chucked straight in.

It proves my point of the guys that are here are made to prove themselves on loans etc yet ronny, Powell, raffa, fabio all purchased young and get more games!

Now either that's due to the manager not trusting our own training or he prefers other teams training methods to get the Younger players to the level we need quicker.

Either way IMO ronny hadn't earned the right to play 28 games at 18 any more than pogba did to ask for some game time so that was down to the managers preference.

Jono

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09 Jan 2013 19:30:01
Thats why Barca and Citeh wanted Evans and not Agger in the summer. Or was it the other way round?

-------------

No name scousers,

Agger was available in the summer because if I remember righty he was shortly out of contract and was touting himself around to go to another club. Don't you think if barca really wanted him he might have actually gone there instead of choosing to stay at a mid table premier league club.

Evans has always had long term contracts at united and is by no means available for transfer so why would he be linked. Do we judge players ability on what clubs the press link them to or how well they play and how they affect their teams results and league position?

GDS

Believable6 Unbelievable6

Well actually Gds, you are wrong. Barca did enquire after Agger as did Citeh (ask ed002) and i also don't really think it matters to Barca or Citeh if you have a long contract or not. Clearly they werent interested in Evans.

The Irish Rover

Agree6 Disagree3

We sold pique because evans was a better prospect if I remember.
Chris the REDman

Agree7 Disagree3

No we sold Pique as he was homesick. We also had Shawcross just before who we sold as it was thought Pique was a better prospect before he decided to leave.

Welsh Dragon

Agree3 Disagree1

And then tried to buy him back last year
jaycee

Agree2 Disagree1

I think its quite simple. Evans is an academy graduate, he's manchester united through and through. Going to Real or Barcelona would not interest him. As for Agger, playing for a midtable premier league club, I got nothing to say.

Mick

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Agger has never touted himself round even when Barcelona and city wanted him he always said he wants to stay at Liverpool

Agree4 Disagree0

09 Jan 2013 19:25:35
We seem to be letting a lot of players leave on loan or sold - I'm just hoping that this means signings.....
But nothing appears to be happening or are we just good at keeping thing quiet?
Pedroknight

Believable2 Unbelievable1

Everyone leaving on loans is not getting games that are meaningful and not really part of the first team, so it has no impact on our squad.

Obviously there must be enough cover in the U21 and U18 that the club feels they can do this. I also believe some of these players will not be coming back as they might not be deemed not good enough and is part of an eventual sale strategy.

Shahram

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09 Jan 2013 18:05:20
Has everyone seen the video of Pep Guardiola seemingly refusing to shake Ronaldo's hand at the Ballon D'Or? If all is as it seems then I'm disappointed in Guardiola, I thought he had more class than that.

TK-Red

Believable10 Unbelievable2

Yea i saw that and it didnt look good. Not the man i thought he was if it is as it looks.

Brendan

Agree4 Disagree0

Really? The constant theatrics of his players during his reign didn't teach you anything?

Agree2 Disagree1

Ronaldo bumped into him and tapped him and said "sorry" watch the video carefully.

-JakeW

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09 Jan 2013 21:32:46
I mean god forbid that SAF did anything to make himself look classless hey.....you guys.

Stoner

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You been smoking something stoner? Think your in the wrong page... Try bantering with Everton ;)

DodgyBanter

Agree2 Disagree4

09 Jan 2013 16:32:43
Reading alot of rumours it seems something like this may happen in the next 2 windows

Zaha
Strootman
Rodriguez
Lewandolski
In

Schholes and giggs retired
Nani and welbeck sold
Couple of loans in Jan

Believable6 Unbelievable2

Drop dolski for baines an were set

marlow

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09 Jan 2013 16:10:06
Anyone noticed how when we play other top teams it is always termed "rivalry". There is no match in EPL that draws so much as a Manchester United against any top club.
PeeBoaiy

Believable8 Unbelievable7

09 Jan 2013 21:30:34
And you think it's rivalry...seriously mate.

Stoner

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No you are correct Stoner its us against lower teams

Pardoe

Agree3 Disagree1

I remember Arsenal used to be rivals a long time ago.

StevieK

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09 Jan 2013 15:51:27
Anyone else prefer too see kagawa start in his favoured position and have rooney on the bench. Rooney has been one of my favourite players in recent years but i don't think we will ever get the best out of kagawa if we don't start him more often in his favoured position, plus i would prefer a fully fit kagawa instead of non-fully fit rooney

James

Believable10 Unbelievable6

Completely dissagree, apart from RVP this season Wayne rooney has carried Man United alot of the time since the departure of Ronaldo. When he's fit and healthy there arn't many better players around. Just look at Rooneys performance in the win against City, that's what he's capable of. Kagawa isn't in Rooney's class. If he gets anywhere near Rooney then i'll be a happy man.
Rooney all day for me, class player!

Simmo

Agree11 Disagree12

I also believe Rooney will play this weekend. It's a fact he always performs in the big game for us and there is something extra in it against Liverpool for him.

Ussoldier77

Agree7 Disagree1

Not quite yet but in the future yes. From what I have seen of kagawa his ball control passing and link up play is better than Rooneys however he will need time to settle into the epl. When he has I think he would be better in that position than Rooney.
Nathan

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09 Jan 2013 14:49:37
Forget Zaha.. Spend the money on snjieder which will give us a better chance in the champions league and domestically. This will inevitably improve the youngsters as well the extra revenue from success will pay for the transfer.

Karni

Believable8 Unbelievable10

Congratulations, you've found another way to spell his name...


AJH

Agree9 Disagree0

Who?

GDS

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09 Jan 2013 14:10:31
With all those posting about Rooneys' possible transfer. Is this whole 'injury' saga, to do with having time of for the grievance of his sister in law?

Andy S

Believable7 Unbelievable1

I became a father for the first time last year an can not bear to hear about these poor kids it puts me on the verge of tears .......... I know they will never read this but my heart goes out to wazza his beautiful missus an all the family an friends going trough this hard time wit them...... I will pray for you all

CAIN

Agree6 Disagree0

When I first heard the news of his sister in law passing I thought that this could be behind the mystery injury as well. A lot of people on here like to assume that he will be sold or he has fallen out with Fergie. In all honesty this must be a huge mental burden to play with and could have ultimately affected his form. People think because they get paid huge amounts that they are immune to things that affect us all. Let's give him time to mourn and see if he comes back the player he was before.

Darren-Bermuda

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09 Jan 2013 18:01:33
Does no-one else remeber Rooney saying he wanted to retire at united a couple of weeks ago??

Agree2 Disagree0

Massively agree, we all would've had some lengthy time off given these circumstances. Regardless of wage, job or expectations. Plus we all know how Rooney plays when there's a dark cloud hanging above him. Especially something of this magnitude. He's not getting sold and there's no spat between him and Fergie.

Andy S

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Couldnt have put ut better myself Darren here here

Brendan

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I don't think him being out had anything to do with his sister in law, since his wife was vacationing in Barbados a week before that and was all over the tabloid papers.

In terminal cases that take a long time whilst it is expected, things happen when most unexpected and quite quickly. My father passed away from Cancer and whilst we where at first only given 2 years, it eventually happened four and half years. You have lot's of false alarms and when it actually happened, it was so short and abrupt and things unfortunately degenerated in a matter of 48 hours.

Shahram

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09 Jan 2013 13:50:22
Hi guys, posted a while back about the possibility of Ronaldo returning this summer and how it could be a real possibility. Now we keep hearing all these rumours of Cole and Lampard coming in the summer on free transfers and IF true in my eyes this could be part of the Ronaldo return. Everyone knows that we need a left back, at least 2 cm's and probably a replacement for Nani. Now if Fergie decides he wants Cole/Lampard then he has filled 2 of those needs for a season or 2 in his eyes, maybe not in other peoples but we arent the manager. Selling Nani would pay for the other cm we need and then we would have the summer transfer kitty to pay for Ronaldo. Personally i don't want Lampard and i don't think much of Cole. But if Fergie really wants Ronaldo maybe this is his best way of getting him while also helping other areas until at least summer 2014 when we would have funds to replace Lampard with a world class young cm. Love to know if anyone else has thought this or not and look forward to your thoughts.

Brendan

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Good logic Brendan. We'll be seeing the ends of Scholes & Giggs at the end of the season I think. Perhaps Evra also. So Lampard & Cole will add experience and more quality to the club. If we then spend £18 million this January on Strootman we will be able to recoup that from the sale of Nani in the summer. The summer budget I am sure will probably be around £80 million, so that would cover the fee for Ronaldo. If Ronaldo is available then we will head the queue, if we are serious about it then we will get him.

Fresh!

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I'd rather we moved on and didn't break our backs trying to bring back a player who wanted to leave.

Having Ronaldo back wouldn't solve our other problems - it'd be yet another paper-over-the-cracks situation. Let ROnny bang in 30 a season while our CM gets over-run and we concede 2 a game at the back.

Move on. Ronaldo did.

There's plenty of talented wingers/attackers out there who'd cost half of ROnny's amount - giving us the cash to strengthen elsewhere....and by strengthen, I mean STRENGTHEN - not bring in aging castoffs from our rivals.

RED_SKY

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I thought something would have to give, should we buy Ronaldo.
First on the list is Rooney, he would fetch the highest fee, and might even be of interest to Real, next Vidic and Nani.
Wasn't necessarily happy with either constellation.

This would be the only outcome acceptable, should really look at those 2 blue legends.

I'd certainly be pleased with a summer of Ronaldo, Lampard, Cole and a proper DM, even if it meant Nani gone and nothing else.

Jonny8

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Nice theory Brendan, i personally wouldn't mind Lampard, as long as we got another younger midfielder like Bender/ Strootman/ Wanyama as well. And if we got Ronaldo back... we'd be unstoppable.

But Cole just doesn't make any sense to me. He's older then Evra!

Red Joe

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Red Sky, Ronaldo isnt any old winger, along with Messi we are talking about THE best 2 players in the world. Yes he left as where he grew up Real Madrid are THE team. However i believe he may have realised that the grass isnt always greener even if it is your boyhood club and that what he had with us was what he really wants after all. I may be wrong and if i am fair enough. Lampard would only be here a year or so if he came as we would get someone younger summer 2014 i'd say.

Red Joe, i agree with the Cole comment but on a free is he a better option right now than Evra who we would get a few million for? Difficult one really but maybe financially it would be best even if he isnt the nicest person.

Brendan

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I know hes Ronaldo and yes, he has clearly retained a love for MUFC but I just don't see the point in blowing our entire budget on one player, I'd rather it be used on other areas.

I just can't bear the thought of Cole in the red shirt....

RED_SKY

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Cole won't get anywhere near our shirt mate!! Fergie knows a bad'un when he see it
Chris the REDman

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With Cole i hope you are right, Lampard i could live with for a year if it meant a Ronaldo return.

Brendan

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09 Jan 2013 13:10:10
We could beat Liverpool 5-0 on Sunday. No penalties, no red cards, no yellow cards. But it will still be Howard Webb's fault according to the deluded scousers.

G.A.G.U.S

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The thing is, you couldn't beat us 5 - 0

IrelandRED

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No GAGUS, you could not beat us 5-0, and its okay about howard webb, hes very fair, and a good ref,
ps, what squad number has saf given webb anyway mate, lol............lfc

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Says a lot about the obsession that it's two Liverpool fans who reply. The excuses are in already.

G.A.G.U.S

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Where in my post did I use an excuse? IrelandRED

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09 Jan 2013 12:06:37
Dortmund coach Jurgen Klopp has revealed the club plans to offer Lewandowski an improved contract to try and convince him to stay.

"We will offer Robert a good contract but we have to see what the player wants, " said Klopp.

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I personally think that he will stay at Dortmund.

Fresh!

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09 Jan 2013 11:47:28
Cleverley is voted star man in the FA cup game against West Ham on manutd.com, gaining 63% of the vote. Nice one Tom ! Time for KLOOT to start eating some humble pie and stop all of his brand drivel nonsense !
PerthDave

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09 Jan 2013 12:59:42
Wow...63% of the votes...geez all this time I was wrong.

Remind me again, you are the Perthdave who says young Tom will be world class because apparently no one on this page has said that and the same one who just signs off Perth on the Liverpool page.

Stoner

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The day RFT eats humble pie is the day Father Christmas flies down my chimney on a sleigh being drawn by 12 flying pigs. That said, there weren't many more performances to choose from at West Ham; our best performers were off the bench.

TK-Red

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Yeh gd luck with that 1 lol
Chris the REDman

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The problem is people do not realise this is a squad game. They also do not realise that squad players can develop between 21-25 into important players. United have always had squad players that fans moaned about in their early 20's, players like JOS, Evans, Fletcher etc and they have become important team members. If the manager binned every player that the fans didn't want we would have a squad of 12. Players like Welbeck, Cleverley, Evans, Hernandez etc are very important players as they do not mind being squad players and they can all do a job when called upon. Cleverley may not turn into a Scholes replica, it don't think he will. But he will be a very important player for our club once he has had time to develop. We should not stand still whilst the players are developing, we should of course carry on strengthening the first team, but players who are developing shouldn't be shown the door or binned. We cannot have a 25 man squad of world-class players.

Sydney!

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It is a squad game Syd and that's the problem. In our squad we currently have a grand total of 2 recognised central midfield players that are fit enough to play every week and are under the age of 38. Cleverly is one of these two players and is, therefore, not a squad player, he is one of our key midfield players.

I have no problem with Cleverly being a squad player, he certainly adds an option to the team and has started to make steps toward living up to the name he tried to make for himself last year. However, unless we actually buy some top quality midfielders Cleverly will remain a key first-team player and will be subject to criticism for not being good enough to hold such an important position for a huge club. It would be inaccurate to call Cleverly a squad player because that implies that we have a solid group of midfielders who are competeing for starting births rather than a rag-tag of injury stricken and past it players.

Danny Pughnited

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Top post Syd, that's how I see Cleverly's role too. Evans & Fletcher are good examples of players it would have been very bad to get rid of, even though they didn't always look like superstars in early years. We don't have to pay big transfer fees for guys like these, they generally accept reasonable wages because of their affinity to the club and are happy to be squad players. Worth their weight in gold IMO and the reason our 'squad' is at least on a par with City's.

Gav

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10 Jan 2013 04:48:45
Stoner - Yes to the first question, no to the second. I rate Cleverley very highly. I think he has excellent technique together with drive and energy. He is not the finished article but he is progressing well and I'm glad he's in our squad rather than anyone else's. He is one of the first names on the teamsheet for me. The reason is that his inclusion indicates that we will play a high tempo game and that's what I want to see. I also think he is potentially world class and if I am alone on this site in thinking that, so be it, I don't give a stuff. You'll hear my opinions anyway. Come back to me in 3 years and we'll see.
I am not "Perth" who may have appeared on the Liverpool page. I'm not that interested in what Liverpool fans think and have never been on the Liverpool page.
PerthDave

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09 Jan 2013 11:36:15
I know people are against the idea of us getting Lampard for free in the summer, but I don't think it would be a bad bit of business. With Scholes likely to retire after this season, and hopefully Giggs following suit, we could do with the experience in midfield. I believe signing Lampard and Strootman would really improve our midfield, and give us enough options, even if Carrick gets injured.

El Diablo

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Agreed but what happens if we sign Lamps and Scholes and Giggs don't retire then there will be no Stroot or anyone like him

Pardoe

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With Scholes likely to retire after this season, and hopefully Giggs following suit, ??? Have you forgotten how many times Giggsy has proved himself and given the kind of loyal service for 2 decades you will never see again?? he is a legend at this club and rightly so, you muppet!

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People against the idea of signing him have a limited grasp of football. Advances in hwo players train mean a player can play on for far longer than they could have 10 years ago...andLampard has never relied on his pace anyway. He is still banging in goals at Chelsea and while Giggs may not retire Scholes will and bringing in a midfilder on a one year deal with Lampards experience is a shewd move if it goes ahead - he won't play every game but his experience will be vital in bringing players such as Cleverly and Anderson along

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IMO Scholes is certain to retire in the summer where as Giggs, as shown against West Ham, still has a role to play even though it may be a minor one. He also has plenty to offer behind the scenes. Scholes' problem is that he plays in such a vital position, a position where you can't afford to carry a player who's legs have gone where as Giggs can still be effective in a wider position or behind a striker especially when we are chasing a game and he is given space by the opposition as they sit deep.

TK-Red

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So how long do you think he should continue no name? Until he is 50?

GDS

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And that's why they would be better off to retire while they are still classed as legends. I don't know if you have watched any of our games when they have started this year no name, but we lack creativity, drive and that killer ball. It is clear to almost everyone that they are past it, no matter how good they have been.

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I agree that Giggs could have a role to play as a sub, contributing 20 minutes here and there, but Scholes just isn't the same player anymore. He hasn't the pace the keep up with the top midfielders and slows the game down when we are losing by making reckless tackles.

El Diablo

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Silly post GDS mate. Its that type of comment that gets everyone's knickers in a twist about Giggs and Scholes.

Come on, you're better than that :)

StevieK

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I remember couple of months back some of you guys were saying Giggs should leave and Scholes can contribute a little. But now they are claiming it the other way.. Is it because of the 1 pass against West Ham?
I believe SAF is still keeping them for some reason. Don't ask me what it could be b'cos like everyone I've no idea. He manages to play them and still lead the league by 7 points. So I think we should give him credit for that and at the least believe in our manager and our players...

AJ

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I like the fact that the no-name poster above has the brass neck to call someone else no-name

Puzzled

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I think he is keeping them because they are consummate professionals who know how to win and how to behave and a great influence on everybody else. Whether they should play together / as much is a different matter...

AJH

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'AJ'

Can you back up your claim that anyone on this thread has said Giggs should go and Scholes should stay and is now saying the reverse? I don't think you'll find anyone has changed their minds. Giggs has always had a role to play, more so than Scholes IMO.

TK-Red

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Stevie,

Thanks for saying I am better than that. My post was more being flippant to the no name who called people muppets for suggesting giggs may retire soon. I'm not sure how long people think he should go on for, because I actually think fergie will still be playing him at 50 if he was still here then!

I know giggs is a legend and I am not calling for him to retire, he still can add something as a sub as he has proved, but surely retiring has to be on his mind sooner than later?

GDS

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Not thos particular thread TK, but it was the general consensus amongst a lot of people after the first few games of the season, when Giggs had a few bad performances.

StevieK

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AJ mate, good posts but AJ is bloody confusing don't you think?

AJH

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That may be true StevieK but I've not seen many people do a complete 180 with their opinions. From what I can see, the people who thought Giggs was garbage still think he's garbage. So long as SAF stops playing them together then they should both have a role to play between now and the summer.....in theory.

TK-Red

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Totally agree TK - wouldn't surprise me if one or both came up with a few season-hanging moments before the end of the season.

StevieK

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I think it's as simple as we've seen Giggs come on the LW or in a more advanced role recently. Where he's proved he can still do a job on a cameo basis. The problem arises when he starts games in CM next to Carrick. He simply does not have the legs or energy to play in a 2man midfield any longer IMO. So long as he's used sparingly in a more attacking role I see no problem with him contributing. Would still think he'd be wise to retire in the summer though and force the manager into finally replacing him with a younger model!

Gav

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GDS - I know you were only being flippant mate. Unfortunately some on here don't need much of an excuse to rally behind remarks like that when it comes to Giggs and Scholes.

Like others have said, I still think, in a tight game when we're needing a goal, we could do worse than bring on Giggs on the left, to try and unlock tired defences in the last 20 minutes.

Scholes is handy to bring on when we're looking to close a game out, as he can still control the passing in the middle, albeit probably not against the very top teams. That said he has looked less comfortable of late and he has probably hit more stray passes this season, than all his previous seasons at the club put together

Both, I would say, are probably invaluable to have around the club and the younger players.

Scholesy probably knows his powers have waned, and he has never struck me as the kind of guy who would outstay his welcome - I think he knows when to go, and it will probably be at the end of this season.

To be honest, I think Giggs could do another year, in a role similar to now - 20 minute cameos here and there, and maybe looking after the youngsters in a league cup game. The guy is in good nick, and he still has magic in his boots.

StevieK

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09 Jan 2013 11:33:24
Apparently Arsene Wenger has been told David Villa is going nowhere

I remember back when we we expecting to sign him in 2010 when he was 28 almost 29 before he went on to choose Barcelona in a £30 million pound deal. I'm so glad we never got him, he has not been prolific for Barca at all and considering we got RVP for £24 million and has just turned 29 has already proved in half the season that he is the player of the season and the buy of the year....

I just hope we get another great signing in midfield this window, someone that will grab the game by the scruff taking pressure of our developing defence and provide great forward play for Roo, RVP and Co.

Reddevilfan

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He may be buy of the year, but he is certainly not player of the year yet hate to say it but Saurez has at least equalled RVP!

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09 Jan 2013 14:17:04
Wouldn't Michu go down as buy of the year for £2 million?!

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Saurez? Can't be that good, never heard of him?

DodgyBanter

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09 Jan 2013 11:04:41
And mate, you're starting a dangerous precedent if you think the club should 'cater for his needs'. It risks upsetting the morale and team ethic of the club if you go down that road.

Maybe for a George Best or a Cantona, but certainly not for some kid who had barely played a game for the first team.

StevieK

I agree that there could be a risk of upsetting the apple cart as such OR you could say it shows we value massively promising players and reward them so.

pogba was head and shoulders above any other youth or reserve player, he was ahead of Gibson and iIMO would have made even bigger an impact in the first team than Clevs has. On top of that he would have made a better impact in the middle than Giggs or Rafa did so why would a player like that not be worth catering for?

IMO in a couple of years he will be on a par with or better that Martinez is now who cost 40m euros. So who else in our youth or reserves could you say that about?

Its all fine saying well we are not being held to ransom by this player or that player but we gave in to Rooney who many could say deserved it but we are not talking Rooney size money or a guarantee of starting every week with Pogba.

If all he wanted was similar to what he is getting at Juve (playing I mean) we should have been able to guarantee that with no problems at all. Something like 15-20 games so far. for an out and out CMer to play in our weakest area that should be no issue, where I think the issue has come from is again the managers stubborness especially with players already at us.

Because he is so involved with contracts and money for players, transfers etc his stubborness has led to many players not coming for that extra 1mil here (Ronaldinho) 1m there (Robben) out of principle yet he is fine to sanction 7.4m for an unseen Bebe as a few 'friends' will see some of that cash.

Do you think when Ronny first came we said right your 18 so here is 1500 a week like was offered to Fryers because thats what others at that age were at? Or did we see talent and because of that he started at a far higher rate with scope to renew sooner?

It comes back to the problem SAF seems to have with academy players asking for more money. I posted before about the problems Brown, O'Shea, Welbeck have had as the manager is far tighter on releasing wages to the home grown talent compared to purchased players of similar or even younger age.

With Pogba the money was supposedly agreed and to me it seems as though we matched Juves offer. SAF was fine doing that but when the asking of playing time came about he wouldn't budge and so basically his mentality changed from ok we will meet your demands to no way take it or leave it.

Pogba clearly thought himself good enough, many on here myself included thought he was ready and I am sure SAF thought he was close to ready but through the stubborness of not getting it all his own way he put up the blockers and we missed out.

If SAF had agreed to the game time we would never have even heard about it. Its only due to that rejection added to the previous money haggling that the deal couldn't be agreed on IMO.

Good business choice though, as now we will spend tens of millions more on replacements and wages for other players..........well maybe.

Jono

Believable13 Unbelievable8

Pogba and his agent were looking abroad before last season even kicked off Jono mate. The editor cannot be any clearer with this. He didn't leave for lack of playing time, there were other reasons and SAF never stood a chance. Pogba was our best youth product by far and I am gutted he never stayed, but he was never going to stay. Like the editor said, he was always going to leave.

Sydney!

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''Guys your not in the know any more than the next guy. If SAF said we have offered the best contract ever to a player does that mean we take it as gospel he is telling the truth? I certainly wouldn't.''

Why should we take it gospel that Pogba only wanted guaranteed game time? Because he said so? His agent said so?

Why should he be GUARANTEED game time? Are players now above earning the right to wear the shirt through training week in, week out, spending an extra hour on the training field when others go in?

Half a season in senior football at reserve level and he wanted guarantee game time in the first team?

How could we guarantee him game time when at the time we were after Sneijder and Modric? Cleverley coming back, Carrick still with an important role to play, Anderson potentially at the time going to be ready for game time!

Maybe Jono you are used to having things handed to you on a plate rather than working for it which is why you will defend the player, myself and I would suggest Stevie K would prefer players to EARN the right to play for the club. To understand what being a Man Utd player is all about, to understand that if you put in performances, the money will find you.

Hernandez came in on £20,000 a week, a Mexican international who was 22/23, he wasn't guaranteed regular game time, still isn't but he worked hard got his rewards and the following season got his pay rise but still not guaranteed game time but shows his worth when giving the opportunity and now makes life difficult for SAF to leave him out!

Or is Pogba so good he is above all that?

Ports

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Syd

I have no doubt his agent was looking abroad with only a year left he wouldn't be doing his job properly if he wasn't but that doesn't mean we stood no chance in retaining Pogba. If that were the case we would have had news stating he was off to juve in jan as fact not after his contract was up.

I don't believe what SAF says 90% of the time so I'm not just taking an editors view as gospel as I doubt he would be partial to exactly what went on.


Either way mate I still believe SAF went about it all in the wrong way and damaged any chance we did have with his actions. I think we could have kept him if we catered to most of his or his agents demands.

Jono

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Ports

I'm not taking Pogbas word as gospel as my arguement says IMO we matched the money but I think it was SAF and his actions that dented any chance we did have. Pogba was with us for a few years and developed himself into the top player of his generation both in our league and for France so what else could he do? The only next logical step was for him to want first team football.

Loans were of no use, reserves no use and everyone could see we were massively short in the middle. Even as the season progressed flecth was out, clevs out and a youngster was wanting to play. He would have IMO if he was signed up so SAF deliberately left him out because he had not signed.

So how had pogba not done enough to warrant a shout at playing? He had done everything asked of him outwith signing the new deal.

Asking for some guarantees regarding to playin time for all we know could have been him asking to play all the cup games we don't know so you can hardly sit there lambasting him for wanting everything on a plate when he had put in the work to be considered for the first team he just ha not signed the deal leading to him getting frozen out and us damaging our chances of keeping him which was all down to SAF choice.

He thought he ha done enough to warrant praise and promotion to the first team when he was trying to get him to sign but when he supposedly asked for some game time he gets frozen out and almost punished for not towing the SAF line. Do you think that's ok?

Jono

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Jono, I will take what the editor says as gospel seems he has good friends who know the people that was representing Pogba.

He was looking elsewhere before the season even kicked off. He was offered to PSG, Marseille (Who the Ed has very good contacts at) and another club around September 2011 time. SAF never stood a chance.

It's a discussion we have had so many times and the only one with sources close to Pogba is the editor, so that is what I will listen to. Pogba will of course say he went for playing time, they all say that. But the truth of the matter is he was angling for a move before the season took off.

Sydney!

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Myself and I would suggest Stevie K would prefer players to EARN the right to play for the club.

Ports

Do you think Ronaldo did enough to EARN the right to play for us?

Oh wait a second all he did was continually skin Neville in one game and that was enouh to convince us to spend 12m on him.

Talent can show through at any age whether it be 18, 20, 25 or whatever so if we have a talented 19 year old that wants to play we just say no you have only spent 3 years here you have not earned it yet you don't have the right to play for us?

No i didnt bloody well think so!

If he was coming from another team and demanding a starting berth that would be cheeky IMO but he had been here for three years and wanted to play.

You obviously don't want to think of the club or SAF as having failed and would rather blame Pogba. Fair enough thats your choice but I look at it all instead and the situation reeks just as much of a stubborn Scot than a greedy Frenchman, never mind the agents.

You may well be right and he demanded the right to play every game and then I would agree thats an unrealistic demand but I think when he pressed SAF to play him SAF retaliated by saying take it or leave it and IMO thats not the way way to deal with it.

Jono

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Syd

I'm not arguing why he left but I'm more pointing out how badly SAF handled it. I do think we had a chance and all SAF's actions did was to dent our chances and push him away.

If SAF didn't believe he had any chance of keeping him he would have been nowhere near the team. The fact he was in to start with then out as he still hadn't signed then back in as an almost last throw of the dice leads to the idea that he would stay if he was told the right things.

The ed may well be 100% correct in what he is saying and the marseille connection has been mentioned many a time but I will still have my opinion that we didn't help ourselves and had it been handled better we would still have him.

Just my opinion.

Jono

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Here's the difference Jono, Ronaldo played 25 games for Sporting's first team the season before we signed him, senior football. Do you believe we just played them in a friendly and that was our first experience of him? I very much doubt it, he would of been scouted many times before signing him and by the way, we signed him for £12 Million, he became the Worlds Best Player and we sold him for £80 Million, that to me would suggest SAF has an eye for a player and could see Ronaldo had the talent, desire, attitude, physical frame to be successful in the Premier League.

Pogba played youth football in 2011, in 2011-2012 he made his senior debut in September and second senior game in October, between this he was playing senior football at reserve level, come January he wouldn't sign a contract a contract which we were offering him which would suggest we wanted to keep him, so in the space of being promoted from Youth at the end of 2010-2011 season to to Janauary in the 2011-2012 season, lets say May to January, 9 months, Pogba had done enough at senior football to warrant games in our first team? Now, not sure whether you're aware but from Youth Football to Reserve Football there is a big step up, speed, physically, emotionally, technically. From Reserve Football to Senior First Team Football there is a greater step up, especially the level that Man Utd play at. Pogba was being introduced to the Senior First Team gradually, he made 2 Premier League appearances and a European appearance by the end of the season, not bad for a lad in his first season on Senior Football. The fact SAF did not send him out on loan would suggest that SAF thought highly of him and wanted him at the club training with the best players.

Pogba was influenced by an agent who was looking out for HIS best interests, not for what was best for Pogba's career.

You say we need millions to replace him now?

Powell!

Ports

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Jono I disagree

I'm with Ports, all our players have to earn their 1) playing time, and 2) salary. Why should Pogba be any different? If we paid him a wage or gave into demands based on what he could develop into in the future then every promising youngster would start throwing the same demands.

I think SAF had a good idea Pogba was leaving in the summer of 2011 and am in no doubt that he would have been given more chances if he was staying. The manager came out and said he was a 1st teamer and gave him some game time in CM at a younger age than he generally likes to.

I honestly believe the manager thought there was a very slim outside chance he would stay and that's why at one stage he gave him the odd chance on the pitch and came out with the statement about being a '1st team player'. The match that comes to mind was when he came on as a sub and the home crowd cheered loud every touch he had. I'm confident this was SAF's last throw of the dice to keep him here. Let's be honest, if the manager didn't have very high expectations for him he would never have been given those chances.

If he'd have signed the (IMO fair) contract offered to him then started to develop into the player we thought he was capable of being - he would have been offered a new contract after 12-24 months as is the norm. And his new salary would have reflected his development as a player. Surely that's how it should work?

I agree with Syd, Pogba's agent and whoever else was advising him made it very hard if not impossible for us to keep the player IMO.

Gav
(sorry for long reply, got carried away lol)

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Gav

I'm not denying the agent will have done his part to line his pockets I've never said that was not the case what I'm saying is after 3 years here a talent as obvious as pogbas in our weakest area was only given some chance to persuade him to stay.

Pogbas request for game time would have been as he seen right through the ploy of play him and the taste will wet the appetite so he can sign for 5 years and we can loan him for 2-3 so he can develop when he is clearly ready for top level first team games. He didn't leave for a diddly team he left and has played 3x the amount of games for Juve than he did for us in 6 months and in a midfield that far exceeds ours for talent.

The only fact is he left but I think had SAF handled it differently and catered to his requests a bit then we could have had him and Powell with Carrick in a three man CM this season.

Tell me do you think powell has earned the right to play more games for Utd than pogba did seen as he has bee with us a whole 6 months compared to pogbas three years?

Also pogba was highlighted as the best to come through our ranks for years so treating him a little differently would be exactly like giving into Rooney but playing hard ball with welbeck, sound familiar?

IMO SAF didn't like how his ideas for pogbas development were not accepted by the player and although the money was reportedly similar to juves they could easily say yeah we will play you where as SAF would have to agree to the same for him to stay. He didn't and he is gone but SAF choice to freeze him out and train with the youths proved his stubbornness and how peeved off he was that he wasn't just lying down and signing.

Jono

Jono

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I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on how it went down. It's all guess work afterall. I honestly believe we did as much as should have been necessary for Pogba to sign.

One thing I fully agree with is the prospect of Pogba in our midfield this season alongside Carrick. And then in the future alongside Powell. Gutted we'll never see that!

One difference is, I do think Pogba's talent was appreciated as he was apparently offered the highest wage ever to a youth player. He was also given gametime before others in his age group. I also believe SAF recognised his ability so he would not have spent 2-3 years on loan. At most 6-12 months in an EPL team but pretty much straight into our squad IMO.

He should have played more games last season clearly in terms of his ability, but because it seemed inevitable he was looking for a way out of the club, it was difficult to reward him by putting him in the shop window. All guesswork on my part obviously.

With regards Powell, you can't just compare the amount of game time given to 2 totally different players to great effect IMO. They had a totally different football upbringing - Powell has over a season's experience of playing men's football for a start. Also, the coaches and SAF will keep a close eye on certain attributes in training etc. and make their judgement from that. It's the manager's job to know when each individual is ready.

With regards Rooney, you must admit his salary reflects the fact he was one of Europe's top prospects/players at the time he signed it? He doesn't earn an outrageous wage given his position in our squad. The contract we offered Pogba was IMO more than reflective of his talent (by being higher than that offered to our other youngsters, see Fryers as an example) as well as his age and place in our squad (young squad player with little experience).

So I believe Pogba would have been on a fair wage - somewhere between our other youngsters and the established squad players - and I believe he would have had game time. I also think had he impressed he would have been rewarded with a pay rise within 24 months. And that just seems fair to me.

Gav

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09 Jan 2013 10:30:14
Why would Real buy Torres? It's as logical as us buying Chamakh or Barcelona buying Carrol.

On another note how funny would it be to see Andy Carrol in a Barcelona shirt, trying to fit in into the pass and move system.

Mick


---------------------------------------------------

Brilliant mate! Absolutely loved it. But then again isen't Assaidi the "new" Messi and Downing good nuff to play for Real Madrid :)

Deeps...

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Liverpool fans are so silly its guetting cute ^^

Mick

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09 Jan 2013 09:28:14
All of these proposed loan moves out of the club would imply that we are possibly looking to strengthen two players in January. We have already let players like King, Bebe & Brady leave and now we may be letting Wooton & Petrucci go to Peterborough, Powell to Leicester and also Welbeck to Reading.

The potential loaning out of Welbeck must mean that we are close to signing Zaha as Welbeck can cover up top and the wings, as can Zaha. I wouldn't imagine that we would let Welbeck leave on loan in January unless we had a repalcement lined up. Similar to this is Powell. Letting Petrucci, Powell & Tunnicliffe go out on loan may imply that we are the club in talks with Strootman. All of those guys are cover and we won't want to be short.

So perhaps Zaha & Strootman to come in by Feb 1st?


Fresh!

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Would be happy with that,

Sydney!

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Its quite possible I think - everything being so quiet is a very good sign I think. Maybe Spurs dropping out the race implies that Zaha has made up his mind on coming here? We do need something happening this window though to ease the expenditure in the summer.

Fresh!

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I genuinely couldn't give a monkeys about any other position other than CM. as long as we get a CMer in now we have a very good chance of sticking it out in the league.

Europe? Well there's always next year!

Jono

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09 Jan 2013 09:19:36
Liverpool supporter here. Quick question: I know you are obv. miles ahead of where we want to be and dislike us intensely etc. etc. but with all the taunting and childlike drivel from both sets of fans: This is the best game of the league! There isn´t a single game i fear / look forward to like this one! It´s always pretty evened out - you won last time, there was that man called Dirk Kuyt before that...it´s always anyone´s guess who will win but if you are really honest. Are we the toughest fixture for you? We may be 8th and inconsistent as hell but I always think this game is special and unpredictable. Anyway, may the better team win on sunday.

Believable11 Unbelievable1

A couple of seasons ago you were in our top 2/3 hardest games but now I'd just rank you as any other team that we should comfortably beat without a problem


Anon

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It is the most emotional game for us id say! Its very easy to et caught up in the fixture!
Chris the REDman

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If the better team wins Sunday then its only the score line we need worry about.
United like you say are miles ahead of Liverpool and only lots of luck will prevent them from getting a hiding.

My response also answers your question....NO.

Devil Dust.

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I completely agree with you, the Liverpool game is that one game where no matter how well you guys are or are not playing I worry about the result.

They're always cracking games though, lets hope if their is a handshake then it all goes accordingly to plan as well.

Best game in world football imo.

The Moon.

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You are not the toughest fixture, Chelsea & City are tougher opponents by far, but there is more rivalry between our two clubs.

Sometimes the best teams do not win, Norwich beat us earlier on in the season for example, but I have no doubt the best team will win this weekend, I think we will score 3 or 4 if Rooney plays.

Sydney!

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It might be the best but its isn't the toughest. City and Chelsea are light years agead of you at this moment in time.

Also with city being our local rivals and now main challengers for the title they have become our biggest rivals and biggest game I am afraid.

GDS

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There is a beauty to this fixture but I'm sorry to say its not my highlight of this season spurs an city for me an its being city for the past couple of years but there will always be a tension around this game an not only for the fans involved but football as a community ....... It's still important that we beat you but your not the Titan we used to wrestle wit

CAIN

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No, we are by no means titans! Although I have to disagree with one thing: You haven´t been giving us hidings in the past. In actual fact, the last 5 head to head encounters have been 1 draw and two wins each. Not lessening your acchievements by any means but it has not been as easy in the past 2 years than some are saying it has. Clearly City, Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal are more to worry about but this fixture will always be special to me. Anyway, nice to have proper, civilised banter. Wish things weren´t so ugly between us so often tbh. My prediction this time: 2-2 ;-)

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I will disagree in a way as this is about the only fixture Liverpool really play their best, your team dislikes us that much and you just get up for the other games in the same way

Pardoe

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Yes we have City and Chelsea as our main rivals, but this fixture is still the one I spend the fortnight before talking about day in, day out.

I get goosebumps just thinking about it, and it never ceases to stir the soul when the two teams walk out.

Not the biggest game in relation to the league, but still the biggest game.

StevieK

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09 Jan 2013 07:52:03
Really can't understand SAF's youth policy. If it is believed that Brady is heading towards old trafford exit with King already gone to Blackburn. I thought brady could make it to the first team, but SAF has different views. What I have seen in pre-season that he was a decent versatile player, playing in midfield as well as fullback. Could be a handful. I think he is at par with Welbeck. But the later has given many chances but he proved very little. He could have played in home matches with minnows. But that didn't happen. Let me say, we have youth policy but not like Barcelona. Selling good youth players to other teams without making them play doesn't serve the purpose. Showcross a big example. I really think after brady that there is no future for promising youth at old trafford. Its a shame.

Red Devil

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I would agree with Red Devil.. I also like Brady and given that we are short on the left side, a decent young lefty shouldn't be let go. Of course, if we have a quality left-side signing lined up then its a different matter altogether but not hearing anything on that. Benoit

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I know what you mean, but there are loads going out on loan to pick up quality time on the pitch. Loans generally precede decision on first team inclusion. I think we have a fair few that will get valuable experience and some will make it some wont. SAF and his team are in best position to judge and we also don't know what the transfer plans are. Recently lots of high quality youngsters that have inevitably led to a fe being moved on.

Kuala

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Brady has already been sold. Never going to make it at United as a left winger. He certainly wasn't going to be our back-up left back ;)

King was always going to depart, not good enough either.

Sydney!

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Do you see the youth players play and train regularly? I think SAF has a better idea of who will make it and who wont, whether it be because of talent or because of attitude. People on here keep slating our youth policy but our youth players are a long way off what we all want to be first team quality. The same people calling for youth to be played would be very quick to slate the youth when they werent up to scratch a la Welbeck who, lets face it, is a lot better than Brady. A lot of the same fans would be saying we are being too stingy not paying for proven talent.
Not meaning to offend Red Devil but other than Shawcross which youth players have we let go in the past that you would want in the first team? Pogba maybe but he didnt want to persevere here and in my mind had the wrong attitude, we offered him the highest wages ever for a youth player.

Snakey

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Its possible we might have a buy back clause, you know. Or it is simply that the coaching system thought he was nowhere near good enough.

Mick

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Based on one player who you admit yourself you only saw play in pre season you think we don't have a good youth policy anymore. I think fergie who will have seen him play many times and watched him train probably has a better idea than you.

We were right to let shawcross go at the time because we had players better than him and he wasn't going to get a chance. Them players are still better than him. Piqué asked to leave and if fergie had known that earlier we would have kept shawcross, that has been well publicised.

GDS

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09 Jan 2013 07:48:47
I live very close to the Peterborough area so the weeks I can not be making it up to OT I will be going to watch Peterborough hopefully some good performances from the lads Wooton and Petrucci! Is this loan deal 100% or a rumour?

Tommy.

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Sorry to hear that Tommy chin up hopefully you will find somewhere else to live soon.

P.s All the best mate !

Devil Dust.

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Thanks devil dust;) I know, it's awful! But I'm hoping to see some good action from the pair!

Tommy.

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09 Jan 2013 07:02:13
When I was at school in the seventies I used to play the we were Champions of England in 67 and Europe in 68, we are in transition, we are growing, coming back, will take over. Games against Liverpool were our cup final, I remember being at OT when Ted MacDougal scored in the early seventies, the 77 cup final and those semi finals at the end of the seventies.

Well we must be playing Liverpool this weekend because of all the schoolboy taunts from Liverpool fans about their cup final on Sunday. Sometimes I avoid the site around this time because of the children, all doing what I did as a child, funny how we have role reversal, yet we must learn from what happened to them after 1990.

Red Man

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Yeah. I remember those days and I was there when ted MacDougall did Liverpool in.
I think times have changed though. Football is big business and I don't think you'll see United doing a Liverpool. When saf decides to retire, the club will get the right man in and we will carry on.
They tell us that all the pressure is on us to win, bring it on. I would rather have the pressure to win the league than to be dossing around in mid table with nothing to play for.
NoMidfield

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09 Jan 2013 11:21:06
If you were remember those years I guess you remember dossing about in the old 2nd Division in the mid 70's too. Guess Liverpool weren't there with you either.

Stoner

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09 Jan 2013 04:24:03
KLOOT are you RFT? Was it you and IRISH ROVER who used to always argue with each other before this site was split into team sections?
Just asking? Was about 2004?
Chris the REDman

-----------

Chris,

Kloot has never owned up to being RFT and has failed to comment when asked on numerous occasions this question, but I would put my house on 'yes'.

GDS

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He did kind of let it out of the bag when he said he had caused previous resentment from many on here with his must be from Manchester to support us comment.

He did that as RFT if I remember rightly.

Jono

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09 Jan 2013 04:11:18
You couldn't swap Evans for a Mars bar

Puzzled

--------------

Puzzled,

He is better than every one of your central defenders, has been our most consistent defender for the last 13 months and is looking better by the week.

I am unsure what you get out of posting such drivel about united players, does it make you feel better about how dreadful Liverpool actually are? Or are you still in transition so you are a united hater then a Liverpool supporter for now?

GDS

Believable13 Unbelievable0

Couldnt swap Coates for a herpes infection

snakey

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Better than agger? Really? You don't watch much football do you.

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Thats why Barca and Citeh wanted Evans and not Agger in the summer. Or was it the other way round?

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09 Jan 2013 03:45:14
"For all their brilliance, Howard Webb, not Robin van Persie or Luis Suarez, will determine the outcome this Sunday. Save perhaps for the man in the middle, there is unlikely to be much between the two.

"As has more often than not proven the case, Manchester United will summon up the grit and desire to, thru, sheer graft, match the visitors' skill, finesse and grace.

"Manchester United may not possess the mercurial movement and passing of their Merseyside giants, but they have an ace of their own: their fight and battling skills. And Alex Ferguson knows it.
So steel, blood and guts... that will be the recurring themes at Carrington and match day.
I would bill the match fight vs finesse, graft vs grace, brawn vs brains."

A Neutral

Believable2 Unbelievable13

What are you smoking? give me some

?

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Laughable. So the pass from giggs to rvp, the fantastic control and superb finish against west ham was all 'grit'?
Grow up !
NoMidfield

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A Neutral - I would agree that the game will be tight, after all it is Liverpool's cup final and a win or draw for them will see their fans saying they have had a successful season, even if they miss out on Europe all together.
In your attempt at sarcasm you have highlighted the difference between the teams exactly, yes we have flair players etc, but you don't win anything without some hard graft, grit and determination. That is why we recovered from 2-0 against Villa to win whereas Liverpool just rolled over and lost at home, the same reason why we score so many late goals, like Saturday.
So I will take your comments as a compliment and a very good explanation of why we are successful and Liverpool are just a mid table team.

Yougottalaugh

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Why are you using inverted commas - are you quoteing someone?

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09 Jan 2013 02:04:53
How anyone can say Giggs is past is is beyond me! The pass for RVP against west ham was unreal...moments of magic win matches and he is worth keeping on as a player/coach next season. Although I would much prefer younger prospects getting game time, his input could be useful when not relied upon.

Tetrahydro

Believable10 Unbelievable8

Too many young ones on this site mate, that think life ends at 30!

And that a manager in his early 70s must obviously be a gibbering, dribbling fool!

I'm going to speak to the Eds about the blatant ageism on display here :)

StevieK

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Unsure how it can be beyond you. He is slow and cannot play centre midfield anymore, last season we lost almost every game he started.

The pass for the Rvp goal was class and he is a legend but if you have seen him play the last 2 years you must be able to work out why people think he is past it.

GDS

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His best days are gone...but some of the comments on here have been poor and disrespectful.

AJH

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I agree with GDS and AJH.
If he doesn't quit soon he is in danger of jeopardising his legendry status at the club. Some players don't know when to stop i just hope Giggs doesn't become one of those players because he has been a fantastic professional at the club and is a legend but please Giggsy stop at the end of the season.

Simmo

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A broken clock is right twice a day.

One great pass doesnt erase numerous embarassing recent performances.
RED_SKY

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IMO he has already past the point where many in ten, twenty or thirty years talk about remembering Giggs and say he stayed just that bit too long.

Any longer and I agree he will be borderlining most remembering him for that more than the years of brilliance which would be a terrible shame.

Jono

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09 Jan 2013 00:53:54
Exciting to see some potential stars get some minutes. Fabio - QPR
Henriquez - Wigan
M.Keane - Leicester City
Giverin - Royal Antwerp
Bebe - Ave Rio
I hope these loans go through it'll be worth staying up to watch the football league show.
Wootton & Petrucci - Peterborough
Powell - Leicester City
Brown - Bristol City

TJ

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TJ, I think it was you who suggested that Welbeck & Cleverley may go out on loan this January around a fortnight ago. I shot you down saying it will not happen, but Welbeck may well go out on loan. So I apologise if it happens.

Sydney!

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08 Jan 2013 12:51:46
Question for Ed002

Can you update us on mufc's current debt and finiancial situation, are we looking better off due to cl and better sponsors or has nothing much changed!

Eagerly awaiting your response

Big V {Ed002's Note - I am on the road righ now - remind me next week.}

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08 Jan 2013 23:53:56
With people saying Felliaini would be gettable at around £22 million I would just like to say I would hate for him to join us and think Cabaye would go for about the same price along with Moutinho and then cheaper players like Strootman and Lars Bender who I would prefer to Felliaini.

Believable14 Unbelievable2