Manchester United Banter Archive November 09 2017

09 Nov 2017 20:43:50
Watershed moments in the last 31 years, SAF arriving, Cantona, Cantona kicking the fan, Ole scoring, the Racehorse, the Glazers, SAF retiring, appointing Moyes. These are recent defining moments. There is a potential defining moment this summer.

Some are pro some are anti Jose, some may be sat thinking the sun will suddenly come out and fantasy football starts if Jose leaves, yet those thoughts are missing the real defining moment.

If Jose opts to leave for PSG this summer, it says that he doesn't see Manchester United as being as ambitious as the French club, that the owners and executives don't have the same ambition to win the Champions League, the World club cup. The thing is he likely sees what some of us have said for about 5 years that our club is not as ambitious as City. Whilst we laughed at their relegations, the tables turned when we both changed owners.

Now this summer could be the moment when City's planning comes to fruition, THE moment they have more ambition, more opportunities to win than us, because we lost focus on winning prizes whilst we funded a debt laden take over, to enable the owners improve the value of their asset, where we focussed on income not incoming trophies. It's potentially THAT moment. A top manager leaving like that would be a first for us, who else opted to leave bar Busby and SAF and allowing City to go ahead is another first. Yes, they had moments in the 60's and 70's but this is potentially the moment when their planning comes to fruition. It is potentially that big a watershed and Woodward and the owners needs to be accountable, Jose leaving through choice is that big.

09 Nov 2017 21:06:11
Not really Red Man. I'm sure Man Utd can shrug off a brat like Mourinho without much concern. More important is who is appointed next. A good start would be someone who actually wants to be in Manchester managing Manchester United.

09 Nov 2017 21:13:37
Red Man, I take the point but we are never going to complete financially with PSG and nor should we try. We have spent a lot of money so far and I am sure we will continue to do so, the issue is Jose seems to just want to buy more players whilst other Managers also improve the players they have. I think you are being over dramatic, SAF left an ageing squad and Moyes and LVG didn't really make much progress fixing it.

I think Jose is past his best and so struggling to understand how to catchy City, he probably sees the billions at PSG and an opportunity to cement his reputation. If he leaves I think it says more about him than it does about our club.

09 Nov 2017 21:25:13
Two things. Jose is doing a good job and building a squad. Secondly, if he leaves there will be a queue a mile long to be the next Utd manager.

09 Nov 2017 21:25:15
Jose will only ever care about his own success and reputation. It's always about personal achievements with him. But we always knew this about him. This isn't new news. I think he's in a great position. He'll flirt with the PSG job and either get it or get a massive new MU contract. Win win for him.

09 Nov 2017 21:54:40
Over the last 4 year United have spent 147, 166,144 and 175 mil a total of 632 million over the last 4 year . And people question the club's ambition?
2 clubs in world football spent more than United this summer .
Last summer only city spent more a extra 25 mill although we also got ibra on a free .
Since Jose has come to the club only city have spent more .

Have the club really not backed Jose?

09 Nov 2017 21:58:54
Denial, denial that it is anything other than the manager, Jose is the issue goes the deflecting argument. There is a malaise running through the club, which is visible to anyone who wishes to see it, changing managers won’t change it. A new manager might mask our issues briefly but the brutal situation is that the club have a feel of yesterday’s club, reliant on history. It’s going to take more than a manager to sort this out, it needs a board who have a plan and ambition.

09 Nov 2017 23:17:24
Jred we did spend that money but that doesn't mean anything cause we didn't spend it wisely. Most of the squad are on big money but that's all they care about is the pay cheque.
All that money spent and no full backs. We often play Ashley young on the wing before martial or rashford cause we don't have any wingers.

09 Nov 2017 23:48:48
It's not denial? It's fact Jose has been fully backed look a t the numbers.
You can write huge post about backing the manager but we are the second biggest spenders in the world since Jose took over?

We have spent more money broke more transfer records than we did in the last 15 year of fergy.

Fergy never broke world transfer records or paid huge swages .


Redman
The club is one of the biggest spenders and wage payers in Europe we are the one of the 2 big spenders in Europe.

We have the feel of a yesterday club reliant on history?
In our history we have never spent more or paid higher wages than we do now .

Leahy
We didn't spend it wisely? That the managers choice but the club has still spent it and paid the wages .

We have no full backs? Or we have no full backs that you rate?

We often play young on the right before the 50 mil martial and massively rated Rasford . Poor united .
Can you imagine if we had to make do with the over rated sterling or crap salah from Chelsea.


Poor United huge spends huge wages but poor us .
Denial denial?

09 Nov 2017 23:52:30
Look at the numbers since fergy left have the club really not backed the managers.

Denial denial it's all Jose fault that we are 2nd in the league and top of our CL group .

Can you imagine how fans of other teams think of the above post.

10 Nov 2017 00:55:19
Denial you were the one that bought up about all the money we spent.

10 Nov 2017 01:44:51
It is getting embarrassing. Fans are going into melt down for no aparent reason, international break has only just started! 😭.

10 Nov 2017 03:44:51
Redman only person denying stuff is you, as jred pointed out Jose has outspent everyone bar city and remember had atletico not been banned he would have outspent them as well but even with griezmann we still would have used the same strategies as we did against Liverpool in big games.

It's funny you want board who have spent 250mn+ in 2years to show ambition but have no qualms accepting the manager showing no ambition on pitch while spending that amount on the team.

10 Nov 2017 04:30:25
Sorry Tony but which player has Pep improved. He has only gone in and bought an entire new first team while we are crying out what Jose has bought in. developing players and still competing is a thing of the past i am afraid and only the clubs who have the money will compete for top honours.

10 Nov 2017 05:21:12
Shan these are Sterling's stats this season 13 apps 10 goals and 2 assists. If that isn't improvement then I don't know what is.

10 Nov 2017 06:38:53
Thats ok CSM. I understand your hatred towards Jose. Please allow me a conversation with Tony. And just to answer that, have you seen Rash and Martial stats? And on Sterling he hasn't improved rather just gone to what he was at Liverpool. Pep got everyone that he wanted and we didn't get a winger that we so desperately wanted because woodward screwed up. If i were the manager i would baulk because there is no winger in the squad that i can work upon.

{Ed001's Note - he was nowhere near that level at Liverpool.}

10 Nov 2017 06:59:26
People are focussing on money as the example of ambition, without looking at net spend, yet I am talking about a plan, the club’s plan. The club’s plan was more of the same in appointing Moyes, another Scottish down to Earth Manager, then LvG who would have wanted to imprint a particular style of football which demanded Pep follow him. How is that a plan?

Our facilities are behind City’s, what have we been planning for years? What improvements to the ground? What have we planned for attracting youth, local youth while City have set plans out and set their academy up?

My club doesn’t seem to have a plan, they seem antiquated in their thinking and now we are seeing City emerge as part of their plan we just seem to do more of the same. Maybe City won’t win the league but they are growing in stature whilst we acquiesce. See it if you want, but if Jose leaves through choice in summer I would argue he can see it and if the board do not have the same ambition as the manager then we are in trouble.

10 Nov 2017 07:14:38
Shan. Sterling, Stones, Walker, even Delph. Perhaps he hasn't improved them but he has them playing to their potential. Stones now looks a class player and for his club Sterling has been excellent. Walker seems to have taken a step up and Delph is doing well at wing back.

Jose seems to have a my way or highway style and last year spent a lot of time criticising players publicly, he should just concentrate on getting the best out of them.

10 Nov 2017 07:32:24
Shan as ed001 said, he scored 9 goals and had 5 assists in his best liverpool season in 33 games in epl, this season he has played 9 games and has 7 goals and 2 assists but i am the one hating stuff apparently.

10 Nov 2017 08:07:28
I think pep has improved a few players, sterling the obvious one, stones has been better this season, Fernandinho for me looks miles better and although de bruyne was always good, this season pep played him deeper and he excelled.

10 Nov 2017 08:35:36
Redman the club's plan?

They appointed Jose recognised as one of the biggest and best managers in the world .
They have then give him a fortune to spend .
We are second in the league to possibly the best team in Europe at the moment .

Really what's your problem.

10 Nov 2017 11:09:44
Red Man, you regularly mention a plan. Can you honestly say, from the performances on the pitch, and the way that we play, that José has a plan? I'm genuinely interested, because I really can't see one. "Denial, denial that it is anything other than the manager". Of course the reverse could also be true, that you see no fault in our current manager whatsoever. I really think you work for his PR department :)

10 Nov 2017 19:08:06
Nou

I think Jose is making us hard to beat but needs to add the sparkle. He moved Rooney out beautifully smoothly something previous managers failed to do. Jose is used to undertaking a short term turn around director role rather than a long term planner but first principal was winning in his first season, which he achieved. Fantasists apart, that should buy him well beyond November.

It’s the CEO’s job to long term plan, he, Woodward should have leveraged the knowledge from LvG and Jose to plan. If Jose can build the basics then maybe he can start planning longer term, however it appears he can’t see the higher levels plans.

09 Nov 2017 17:40:55
{Ed's Note - we have posted a new article entitled, Premier League Transfer Window Assessment Revisited

09 Nov 2017 17:59:14
Good fair review there ed.
Great read.

{Ed001's Note - thank you mate, glad you enjoyed.}

09 Nov 2017 14:52:12
After so many years, 3 different managers, hundreds of millions of pounds spent, we have only one decent crosser of the ball. And who is that? freaking Ashley young who rarely makes the team. It feels like groping my phone and hammering in the wall.
We need out and out wingers and full backs first.

09 Nov 2017 19:48:52
And he gets played left wing back 😂.

09 Nov 2017 10:10:20
Still frustated after the Chelsea game. I have been reading a lot of posts saying football is just a game.
Yes! it is. Comparing it to the problems we see around, it is nothing. But you can't deny that it has been a massive part of our life. Seeing our team win and play gives joy to our life.
Having said that, I feel like locking myself in a room for hours when we loose in humiliating manner. Yes the score was tight, but the way we played was abysmal. I really wish that we go for win in every game we play. Not just a win but stylish one. I could have understood our gameplay if we had nicked a win with our defensive approach. But our counterattack is useless. I was annoyed with our attackers for the whole night. Leicester playing defensive played wonderful counter attacking football. Even such attacking could have erased little bit of pain but we were plain boring with our front three having no idea where and when to play.
I can't see us winning the title especially, with city playing with such swag. Say that I am impatient but Jose really needs to step up and do something and make this team eager to fight and win every game.

09 Nov 2017 11:33:25
We have stepped up our game to a point - we would be top of the table if this was last season and that's with all our injuries and recent lack lustre performances (cant quite remember wxactly where we were this time last season bt i'm sure it wasnt first or second) .

But city have stepped up and had a start to a season that previously hasn't been achieved.

09 Nov 2017 12:08:40
If we continue our game style, I am sure we will be long way from the top and it won't matter how much you think we have stepped up from last season. It is not only improving upon oneself but beating others.

09 Nov 2017 12:18:02
Newcastle, Brighton and Watford next - needs to be 9 points. A brave man would think twice before putting money on that treble at the moment and that tells me all I need to know about progress (lack of) .

We had a very easy start to the season fixture wise. We need to lift it a gear to maintain CL hopes next season and a couple of gears to compete with City for the title. We have shown we are capable, just need to see some consistency and a bit more attacking intent.

09 Nov 2017 07:17:26
Press reports mount this morning suggesting the Board are concerned that Jose will jump ship at the end of the year to PSG as he cannot compete with Pep and City. The key point here is that it sounds very believable, this is just the sort of stunt you could see Jose pulling.

Someone referenced Woodward being the problem and if Jose does walk away then you have to question the recruitment strategy. Moyes, a man who had never won a trophy and had almost no European experience. LVG, a man clearly well past his best. And now Jose, already picking up his toys apparently and ready to throw them out of the pram.

Of course it could all be nonsense but Jose's public pronouncements and general demeanour are not encouraging. After 2 trophies last year and some solid signings we are already better placed than last year. Does nobody have any patience any more? Perhaps a couple of solid wins will change everything but I can see him jumping ship at the end of the year which will be very disappointing, whatever you think of him, as well as being hugely disrespectful to our club.

09 Nov 2017 07:29:48
As ed002 said, a lot is going on at the moment.

Who knows what to believe AJH. I just hope, whatever it is, for the sake of the club that they manage to sort out their differences. There is clearly something going on that the fans are not privy to.

If Jose wants backing, you give it to him. By the sounds of it, Jose did not get all his targets. Maybe he is looking at city now thinking if he had got full backing then the gap would be less or not there at all. Either way, none of this is any good for the club and to be honest no other club should be passing the lips of Jose other than United.

If he really wanted to go, I'd say thanks a lot and best of luck in Paris.

09 Nov 2017 10:06:11
I see it as the manager wants to win, but the executive vice chairman is happy with top 4.

09 Nov 2017 10:20:32
I'm just fine with that AJH. Like you said; it's obvious his heart isn't in it at Utd so better for everyone if he moves on.

Hopefully we can get to the end of the season without too much animosity and B. S. Then perhaps at the fourth attempt the board can appoint the right manager to suit Manchester Utd. I think that manager will get a lot of patience from the fans if he trys to bring through youth and play the kind of football that we want.

To keep myself happy until the end of the season I'm just going to lower my expectations and desire for entertainment. i. e. I will expect zero entertainment and so if a game does flicker into something slightly interesting then that will be a bonus.

It's terrible to be writing off our current manager so early in his tenure and just waiting for him to go but Mourinho brings this on himself. Yeah, we won two trophies last season but it all just feels a bit hollow 'cos the guy's such a person.

09 Nov 2017 10:57:39
We demand loyalty from our players and coaches yet show none in return.

A run of bad performances or results and we're all up in arms wanting another signing or the manger replacing for somebody that will play more attractive football (whatever that means) .

Footballers and coaches are professional's not fans, it's naive to think any of them play/ coach Utd purely for the love of the Club. They do what's best for their careers.

If Jose wants to go to PSG in the summer then so be it. A lot of posters would gladly send him packing now!

I for one would be very disappointed. I think he's done/ doing a fantastic job. He's won us two major trophies, got us back into Europe, made some very good signings, reinstated a resilience and winning mentality and we currently sit 2nd in the league, all within the space of 18 months. People have short memories and quickly forget the dross served up by Moyes and LGV! Let's not forget that even during Fergi's final few seasons the football wasn't exactly thrilling.

I don't care if Jose loves Utd, it's arrogant to suggest it's his dream job, I just want him to give his best whilst he's here and try to win things.

Let's be honest if we don't finish in the top 4 he'll probably get the chop anyway.

09 Nov 2017 11:38:30
I like Mourinho, but if he does leave, due to him not feeling like he is being backed as much as city are backing Pep, then i think we should try and get Pochettino.

09 Nov 2017 16:27:26
That's fair enough Danny, but are you having any fun?

09 Nov 2017 18:15:56
There aren't many managers in Europe who have been given more cash than Jose.
There is only the athletic ban that stopped us signing griezmann .

We also spent 40 mil on a cb that can't get in the squad.