Manchester United Banter

28 Nov 2025 10:51:22
Congratulations to the GW12 winner of the FOOTBALL RUMOURS FPL league:

RTFP

27 Nov 2025 23:31:19
I don't know why people are so anti Zirkzee. He has never had a proper run in the team to build his confidence. He has never really played in a settled team either.

I think he is a decent player and that like.

28 Nov 2025 02:11:59
I like Zirkzee, I understand that he hasn't played much this season and lacks match sharpness. My concern isn't his work ethic, but where does he actually fit in.

Last season I thought that he had started to develop a good understanding with Dorgu and Heaven down the left handside. Until Heaven got injured, shortly followed by Zirkzee aswell.

He is a grafter aswell, but I feel that he lacks the overhaul quality to be a success at Utd.

Is the environment at Utd the right one for players to develop?

Players need to be mentality ready to fight, to succeed, to withstand the pressure and burdens that being a Utd player is, especially when the club has underachieved for so long, with the weight of expectation weighing down on their shoulders.

28 Nov 2025 03:16:23
Yes, he is a quality player Salford, I don't think there is a doubt about that.
My issue with him post Everton was that he had an opportunity to stake a claim for a starting position irrespective of whether Sesko or others are available and he let himself down.
Would be interested to see how productive he is after a few more games.

28 Nov 2025 06:23:50
I'm not Anti-Zirkzee, I was a big fan of the signing when we got him. Quality young player, bargain price, and a different type of striker to what we had.

Unfortunately, the landscape has changed since he signed, we have a different manager who has different footballing ideas. Maybe if we sign Semenyo and played Zirkzee as a false 9 with Semenyo and Mbeumo playing episode of him with the intention of bombing past him, along with both wingbacks playing very high and wide to keep the width then it could work. But you'd also need two more naturally defensive midfielders more similar to Casemiro than Bruno to give it balance and avoid being exposed with both wingbacks that high.

Realistically to set the team up to get the best out of Zirkzee would require us to sign another 3 or 4 players with specific skill sets as well as dropping both Bruno and Cunha from the team. Which doesn't seem likely to me.

Under Amorim he's played best as one of the wide 10 rather than as the central striker.

As a striker he's very niche in how he plays and needs the team set up a very specific way to get the best out of him. I'm also not sure he's fully adapted to the EPL, I think some games are just too transitional for him and he's not particularly effective in those games. Germany is a very transitional league, and he looks okay for Bayern, the one team that had more control in games, but he needed the move to Italy before he flourished. Incidentally Serie A is one of the slowest and least transitional leagues in Europe. He has that Berbatov-like languid style, where he isn't necessarily slow/lazy, but he looks lackadaisical in how he plays.

I still think he's a very good player, just one that's maybe not suited to this league or this manager.

28 Nov 2025 09:47:27
He has an overly languid style reminiscent of Berbatov. Berba got away with it because he scored a lot of goals, if you're not delivering goals then it's easy to pick up criticism when you seem to amble about.

28 Nov 2025 13:27:33
Berba was a striker, who could score and create.

Zirkzee doesn’t know what he is tbh. Especially in our system. I feel like he might work well in a front 2 where he’s an outlet to hold the ball up, and wait for the other striker to make the run. Even as a number 10, he really isn’t particularly creative. He’s more of a facilitator than someone who can make something happen. I just think it was a bizarre signing, and more bizarre that we kept him and loaned Hojlund.

I don’t mind his style of play and he could do well at another club with the right strike partner, but for us he is dead weight.

28 Nov 2025 14:01:34
Too slow for the EPL, frequently has a poor first touch, his lay offs and short passes are often wayward, and he's not a great striker. Decent squad player at best who would do better in the right league, but we would have done better keeping McTominay, who actually has an eye for goal, and playing him further up the field rather than in the McTom role.

even more so with Cunha and Mbuemo in the squad, Having said that Zirkzee will probably get another chance this weekend and I hope he proves me wrong. I know he's been injured but there wasn't much about his performances last year to fill one with any confidence.

28 Nov 2025 20:30:28
Berbatov was an entirely different class and level.

28 Nov 2025 21:07:44
Danny I think zirkzee is just a case of wrong man in the wrong place.
I like some of his playing style but its not in keeping with what is needed from our cf.

29 Nov 2025 07:04:20
Agree Ken
He isn’t a goal scorer, or a centre forward or pacey. Good support striker if playing two up front with him just off. Goes back to the question, what was the plan when the club went out buying? Not just him. We have only one striker, how has it come to this? Incompetence.

29 Nov 2025 09:39:40
Theres a reason why he's been allover europe at the age of 24. He’s dross, a liability and shouldn’t ever had had the chance to put this shirt on.

27 Nov 2025 11:05:21
I will continue to back Amorim, but his game management against Everton was beyond poor.

Six defensive minded players against 10-men is inexcusable. I can't and won't defend that. I hope Wilcox and co have a strong word in his ear - and we should never again have Dalot and Shaw playing together on the left! Ever! And don't get me started on Dorgu. He needs a prolonger peridot in the under-21s to gain some form as his is dire right now.

Yoro and Shaw had way too much possession. Passing was slow and ponderous, crossing was poor and the finishing non-existent. I come back to my previous comparison which is a great chef needs good ingredients. We don't have enough for Amorim to cook an omelette. Mainoo is not one of them and should be sold.

However, Everton was a blessing in disguise. We saw how poor our midfield and wing-back options are. We also lack a back up plan to Sesko (please let Zirkzee go) who I believe would have made a huge difference against Everton.

We remain at least 2 maybe 3 transfer windows away from being a competitive squad. Amorim has to remain in charge during that period. But, to expect top four this season when your centre midfield and wing back options are as bad as ours is laughable.

Keep the faith. and have a great Christmas Eds and all.

27 Nov 2025 12:08:26
What did you expect him to do?

Did you look at the bench?


At the start of the second half he took off Mazraoui and brought on Mount. That's an attacking substitution.

On 58 minutes he took off Casemiro and brought on Mainoo, again a more attacking substitution.

The other sub he made was to take off Dorgu who was having a poor game and replacing him with Dalot. A fairly like for like situation, although you could argue that Dorgu is typically better going forward than Dalot.

The unused options on the bench were Bayindir, Martinez, Malacia, Ugarte, Heaven and Shea Lacey.

A goalkeeper, three defenders, a defensive midfielder and a kid who hasn't made his debut yet.

The only option you could have an argument for is giving Lacey a chance, all the others are defensive options.

While to be fair chasing the game against a physical side like Everton is probably not the time to throw on a young lad like Lacey, who while talented, is fairly lightweight and could easily have got bullied in that game.

So what exactly did you expect him to do differently?

We had key forward players out injured, while the likes of Zirkzee and Mount were either making their first start or being eased back in after injury.

Also we had 25 shots on goal, we had more than enough chances to win that game but we either lacked quality when finishing or Pickford pulled out a great save.

It happens, despite the less than great performance, we'd probably have won that game 6 times out of ten and drawn 3 times given the balance of play. We just had the one time were we lost it.

27 Nov 2025 12:54:06
Shappy,

RA could have brought on Mainoo and Mount for Casemeiro and Dorgu at halg timr and played 4 at the back, with maz and Shaw being RB and LB.

Bruno could have played further up, in a number 10 or even alongside Zirkzee. Throwing Lacey on wouldn't have hurt either. Utd had nothing to lose. only 3 points!

27 Nov 2025 13:09:05
There were plenty of options Shappy - even though for the record I am defending him overall.

Taking a defender off and even giving Shea Lacey a chance would have been an upgrade on the 11 on the pitch.

27 Nov 2025 13:22:37
I would have started Bruno in Cunha's spot and started Mainoo alongside Casemiro. The Dorgu/Amad ploy on the left seemed really odd, especially when Amad and Mbuemo have been building an excellent partnership. The Zirkzee selection didn't work because Zirkzee isn't good enough. So not starting him at all probably would have worked better and bringing in Mount on the left instead.

It wasn't the subs that didn't work it was the starting line up. As Shappy points out there really were no options on the bench which does not augur well for AfCon. Before the self inflicted red card Everton looked the more dangerous team. Despite everything, in the end the loss was attributable to poor finishing 24 shots v 2 indicated total domination.

27 Nov 2025 13:43:27
My post was dumped on Match posts. Amorim did not act quickly enough after the sending off. He kept the same set up when he should have reacted and become more aggressive. Dorgu was terrible. Put Heaven at left CB push Shaw forward but he didn’t. What’s the point of putting Lacey on the bench if he isn’t under consideration?
People don’t like it but their goal came from Bruno being very weak indeed. He is not a CM.
Watch the balls being rolled to players so slowly the receiver had to wait for it to arrive.

Not good enough.
How can we have such little depth, such little option having spent so much? How have we only one CF? No midfield? It’s a disgrace quite honestly and it isn’t all on Amorim. Once we had 4 CF now one and a kid who seems to have taken a step back.
Years ago on here we had a poster “No midfield”, it hasn’t changed and it’s frankly a major embarrassment. Now we have no central midfield, no Striker options, no wing backs. Shambles. Utter shambles.

27 Nov 2025 14:54:08
I would argue we not even got a decent striker when Sesko is fit!
Come on Shappy get real don’t try hide behind the bench, it’s ridiculous, he got zero in game management skills, with the sending off any decent manager would have reacted but ours stayed exactly same game plan, slow ponderous walking football, the only decent combination we had is Amad and Mbuemo, so he changes that, we got ready made better forward false 9 call it what you will in Bruno and probably our best finisher does he push him forward…nope Dorgu who been awful since day one should have been sacrificed soon as the sending off, flat back 4 Mainoo on next to Cass Bruno forward or even if he likes the back 3 so much take of Dorgu and Mazzouri 1 Cb the other 2 who were spare all night cover left and Right put Mainoo and Mount on with Cass that midfield 3 would easily take control of the game, jeez these are all internationals that could have controlled the game and fed Mbuemo, Amad, Bruno, what does our boring as hell naive coach do nothing just as usual like for like substitutions then got audacity to say players don’t follow his instructions….

i wonder why, it’s negative boring football, yes we need more players but if Cass, Mount, Mainoo in midfield and Mbuemo, Amad Bruno up front can’t out score and play Everton we have a more serious problem.

27 Nov 2025 15:41:10
Ah he’s back, we lost.

27 Nov 2025 19:08:41
It’s also an indictment on the club/management that the bench is as lightweight/poor as it is.

27 Nov 2025 19:08:55
Lacey was on the bench as an option, but that doesn't mean throw him to the dogs. I'd imagine the plan was to get him used to being with the first team and maybe give him 10 minutes if the game is safe.

But you can't be throwing him in there when you're a goal down and the opposition are playing rough to keep it that way.

That just isn't the right way to introduce a youngster.

As for those people bemoaning not going to a back four, get over it. Football isn't just 4-4-bloody 2. Every time you complain about the formation you are just highlighting your own ignorance. You're making a damn fool of yourself.

As for not taking Casemiro off sooner? Have you seen our record with and without him this season?

Also only a manager who has zero trust in his system/players makes changes 20 minutes into a game due to something that has happened to the opposition.

Let's be honest do you really think the sending off seriously affected how Everton were going to play? Keep men behind the ball, two banks of four. That was always their plan both before and after the sending off.

We were going to have to break them down regardless.

In the end our managers tactics, and in game management enabled us to have 24 shots and limited Everton to 2.

That's about all you can ask of your manager. The problem doesn't lie with him. It lies with the players who conceded when they really shouldn't have, and because they couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo.

Our problem was a lack of quality in forward areas, and there were no other options available to the manager. Suck it up. Until we get a stronger squad we will continue to struggle when missing a couple of key players, particularly in forward areas.

{Ed001's Note - why is it not the way to introduce a youngster? It is the exact right time, when they are under pressure to perform and they actually learn something from the experience. All this bollox about only bringing youngsters on when it is safe is why they fail. They need to play when it matters or they gain nothing.}

27 Nov 2025 20:08:00
What I find really telling about the defences of Amorim’s rigidity is that they talk about substitutions and game management as if the system/formation doesn’t exist.

He brought on Mount and Manioo, therefore he took a more attacking approach.

Yes, but within the same system that kept 3 central defenders on against 10 men when we were a goal behind.

As others have said, the obvious tactical change was to go to a back 4. Adding an extra midfielder to help us move the ball around quicker in the final third, or adding an actual striker. Yeah, the only striker on the bench was a young lad, but he might have actually caused their defenders some problems.

The glaring point is that Amorim’s system was working in this specific game. Everton were comfortable. Even being a man down. They just needed to stay compact and defend against crosses. Anyone watching could see that something different was needed, but Amorim kept the same system despite it clearly not working. That’s the point. Not that he didn’t try to make attacking changes. That these changes made zero difference because Everton were able to defend against the system without breaking a sweat.

28 Nov 2025 03:18:32
Bang on Ed.
We can dissect the Everton game until the cows come home, but not throwing Lacey in against 10men when we needed a goal or two was a bad decision. I suspect Lacey would have given more than others on the day!

28 Nov 2025 05:43:44
Youngsters learn more in these games then putting them on for a run out when 5-0 up, not that we will ever be 5-0 up… stop all this trying to defend RA joke, admit it he made a real mess of that game, stop defending the indefensible, you done it with Ole you done it with Ten….

28 Nov 2025 11:29:29
Ed001
Lacey isn’t 15 or 16, he is 18. At that age you think you can score the World Cup winning goal. Arsenal play Dowman at 15 yet we can’t give Lacey 18 time. If we were in a relegation battle I could understand it but what a filip for the kid put on and told go and get us or create a goal.

{Ed001's Note - even if you are in a relegation battle, it is those moments of pressure that shape diamonds. That is why lower league clubs on the verge of going out of business if they drop down can play kids and those kids do well. I hate this overly protective way of dealing with kids, it does not help them at all. Quite the opposite.}

26 Nov 2025 21:54:37
We are actually living in a world where arnie slot could lose his job before Amorim… that would honestly have been inconceivable a few months back, but as time goes by it’s starting to look like a real possibility. Absolutely mad but it really wouldn’t surprise me, they have been awful! “Footballs a funny old game” never was a truer word said!

26 Nov 2025 22:35:09
It's not could, it's will. Slot will be sacked before Amorim. Sir Jim was very clear that Amorim will see out this season at least. There is little chance Slot will be employed at Christmas at this rate.

26 Nov 2025 22:38:25
Bit like the chuckle brothers one as bad as the other at the minute only thing I'd say is slot is probably worse considering he is working with some of the best players in the league.

26 Nov 2025 23:34:33
Just one of those things at the moment, Liverpool for obvious reasons have higher expectations and standards than us at the moment.

That combined with the fact we have tried sacking managers over and over again means we are more inclined to stick with a failing manager and hope he comes good.

Lets just hope they picked the right guy, i have my doubts.

26 Nov 2025 23:43:34
I think the difference is this.
United's problems are player related, as in, they are not mentally strong enough, nor have the burning hunger and desire to succeed at a club like united or Liverpool, Amorim has these attributes in abundance and will see his tenure through and beyond as he weeds out the weak and builds a coherent team that churns out results.


Liverpool's problems are manager related. Slot has lost his dressing room and because he missed a beat releasing players like VVD and Salah during the summer, their player power is greater than Slots amongst the squad. He is destined to fail, we are watching what united were the last few years.

27 Nov 2025 07:11:52
You think that the players are really backing Amorin then or they just going through the motions the latter is my view
I seem to remember you wanting to have Zirkee as our striker this year! Problem is RA bought one in Sesko who is not great either, to go along with Dorgu who is useless.


RA was as much to blame for debacle against Everton as the players were.
Both managers are on par with each other, both should be on Rachel’s Benefits street.

27 Nov 2025 08:39:32
Je Suis (Maze login #77),
Yes I do believe that most of the players are playing for Amorim. There are some that are clearly falling away, and I suspect in a few more weeks, we will start to know which ones will be pushed out the door.

Yes I wanted Zirkzee to feed Cunha and Mbeumo, I think that would work very well.
But we didn't play those 3 did we, we played the ever useless Amad because Cunha is injured.
I'm not really sure the relevance of that point in your response though, but your usually posts are more often than not without substance.

27 Nov 2025 10:55:59
I see both sides, but the Everton defeat is squarely on RA’s shoulders. I think he got his team selection wrong, didn’t react to the red card, and his substitutions were baffling.

27 Nov 2025 15:05:21
Ever useless Amad, he seemed to me the only one actually having a go and been that way all season, in fact he played RWB reasonably well even though I said all along this position don’t suit him, plus he built a good relationship with Mbuemo what does our useless manager do…he breaks that up….
Zirkee would be useless in EPL if he was even feeding Kane and Halaand… he is 6 foot of weakness, too slow too weak misplaces so many passes and got no idea or ever got up to the speed of the EPL
RA was at fault terribly in this game and to then come out and say he needs to talk players through the game, tells me after a year then his coaching is useless too.
Terrible manager full stop….

I have not heard one professional past or present who don’t think RA really messed that game up…. it won’t go on much longer, the noises that the club backs him is just that Noise, not a cat in hells chance they mean it…. sooner he gone the better…. he clearly just wants robots to do it one way and not deviate… if you don’t your gone if you have any flair or take gambles your gone… he wants robots to play a system that is clearly not working after a whole year of coaching, that says more about the coaching then anything else, if you like certain players or not most are internationals and much better than what they are serving up under this manager…….

27 Nov 2025 18:01:09
We have been getting better under Amorim than any other manager we have had post Fergie. He is actually ridding the club of all the dross that the previous managers had assembled.
I called for the entire squad to be ripped to pieces at the start and get rid of half the players still on the teamsheet because they would keep doing what was served up against Everton and Forest and Spurs. Mentally weak, no desire, no hunger. They need to go, and hopefully January is now accelerating that process for most of them.

Zirkzee needs game time, however after his showing against Everton, he proved he does not have the desire or hunger to cement a place when provided an opportunity, so for me, he can also go.

27 Nov 2025 18:03:40
Watch the game again and only watch Amad, you will see what I see. He is turning into Bruno, trying to do it all himself, throwing his arms in the air, but he isn't even half the players Bruno is, he can also go to be honest.

Someone who throws their arms in the air instead of chasing down and getting the ball back is too weak for united.

28 Nov 2025 05:47:09
Not quite correct, we won more and come 2nd under Jose
We come 2nd under Ole
Even Van Gaal won a cup and finished higher
Now we win nothing play terrible slow football lowly league position too
If this is getting better I really don’t want to see what getting worse is like.


We moved on our assets for next to nothing
We can only play one way after a year of coaching!

28 Nov 2025 15:33:34
You just don't see it because you choose not to. It gives you a position to be negative and you are only here when we lose. Did you go on holiday when we won? Or were you planning your next login.
Pathetic.

29 Nov 2025 05:35:37
Take a look I was here after every win too, problem is you think every poster including me is Maze so your distorted by your affections for Maze you and GDS are both the same in fact it’s so extreme it’s concerning. bit like your love of Amorim and Zirkee.

25 Nov 2025 19:17:17
The most frustrating thinking l saw, was the lack of attacking to get to end line and cross in behind the defence Amad tried a few times and did put in lots of crosses but the were all in front of their defenders from 20 yards out making it easy for their defenders to come and attack. Pickford made 2 very good saves.

I agree, we should have upped the tempo from the 1st minute, at home, chance to go fourth, where is the passionate drive. We should have changed the seems up when they went to 10 men. 2 at the back marking their CF, fill the midfield and press with a high tempo and aggression. Very disappointed to say the least.