Manchester United Rumours Archive April 12 2012

12 Apr 2012 22:26:24
Now there is a little thing that bugs me with people on this site and it's the use of the term "world class" and "squad players" i think these terms get thrown around far too much and can be misleading and degrading to some very good players. So i thought i'd try and explain what i feel is world class and why i don't like the term "squad players".

World class is a term that get thrown around far too much and hung around the neck of every promising player who has a good game, i think it's rediculas. I feel that the term needs to be split up into three catagories.

1, World class, a player who is the best in the world in their position and role, a player who will have a big effect on 99% of all games they play in and has 3 4 or 5 attributes that set them apart from their contemporaries and are the finished artical. Players like Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, Vidic and Schweinsteiger could be classed as world class players.

2, potentially world class, any player under 23 who hasn't shown their ability for more than 3 years at least in a top flight league. So Hazard and Eriksen would be in this section as they haven't finished developing and haven't shown their ability over a sustained period in a top league(although there can be little doubt that they will be world class in a few years time).

3, world class attribute, this should be used when a player has huge ability in one aspect of their game but not the all round game to be a world class player. eg Hernandez has world class finishing ability but lacks in other departments.

So with this info then we can see that there are only a dozen or so actual world class player about atm with loads who would fall into on of the other catagories.

So this leads us on to the other term i dislike "squad players", i feel this term is stupid and derogitory as all players whether in the first team or not are squad players and that people seem to think that if your not World class then your a squad player when in fact its the competitions from other players in the squad that pushes the few to excel and become better players. So signing these so called Squad players has an impact on players in the first team thus making them better players and adding to the collective of talent and improves the team. Valencia is a better player because of the competition with Nani for his place in the team where as Evra has no real competition so his performaces have dropped. Signing a decent but not world class LB could push Evra to perform better to keep his place thus improving our team without changing personel on the pitch.

So i do hope this will put an end to these silly comments of "he's world class" or "he's just a squad player" and people can think open mindedly about what each player could bring to the team as a collective rather than individually as "world class" players.

Shappy

Are those set in stone definitions?

I'll ammend my footballers cliche handbook if they are?

Obviously not thats just my opinion. I just feel that some players are said to be world class when really they have done nothing to prove it. Gotze and Eriksen are teenagers who have the potential to be amoung the best in the world some day but that day isn't now, right now they are very good players but not world class yet. If every player who was described as world class really was then there are hundreds of world class player out there, Anderson was called world class before we signed him, how would you say thats worked out? I just feel that a player should prove themselves bofore they can be called world class. As for the Squad player arguement i just feel its an anti team mentality statement.

Shappy

I would define word class as the effect a player has on his team, in both big and small games. ie. for United we have Vidic and Rooney. City have Kompany and Yaya. Arsenal have Van Persie, etc. I feel world class is a state of mind more than anything.

Percy

Good assessment shappy. So where would u put Valencia, young, nani, and most of our cm bc they are not 'world class' most of them are in their 30s. We are heavily linked with gaiten who in my opinion is a good player but hasn't got 'world class' potential and at 24 I don't see any more improvements in his game. Hope to god this is a smoke screen and we get hazard/Rodriguez, Lucas moura, Martinez. These players are already in the very good bracket and have the potential to be 'world class'

Percy mate i'd have to disagree with you on that. By that reasoning every team has one or two world class players. Tim Cahill for Everton Ricky Lambert for Southampton ect ect. A world class player should be what it says on the tin and be comparable to anyone in the world not just be the best player in their team.

Atm you'd have to say Barca are the best team in the world so to be world class you need to be able to get into their first team and make it better or at least sustain the quality of it. So Martinez in place of Busquets would improve the team so he is world class but M'Vila probably wouldn't so he just falls short of world class. Obviously the issue here would be for players who wouldn't have a role in Barca's team as their position in that team doesn't excist so in that case you need to say do are they inferior to anyone in the world who plays the same role as them? If yes than there not quite world class the other player is. Its not straight forward but I think a.world class player would go into a world eleven and make.it better or at least be equal to anyone else who could be in his position.

Shappy

"World class, a player who is the best in the world in their position and role" - your definition falls flat there. By this very definition there can only be 11 world class players on the planet. I do agree with you that the term "world class" gets thrown about too easily though.
Invisible Stuey

I don't mean like that, I mean when say United (a big team) go down to ten men in a final, against Barcelona (another big team), the ones who step up would be Rooney and Vidic. In a similar manner to Roy Keane. Maybe that's just a world class mentality and is just another world class attribute.

Percy

Hey Shappy,

I really get where you are going with this and I agree with you, in most parts.

I too think the term "world class" is thrown out there to often regarding young and up coming players.

It was a great read. Cheers man.

Well said

12 Apr 2012 18:02:52
Anyone who believes that we have signed Gaitan for something like 45 million euros plus a couple of players are mental. If we included even Bebe and Macheda who probably aren't going to make it here, we'd be looking at a deal in excess of 50 million euros for a player who, at the end of the day, hasn't set the world alight.

I think we can hope for better players certainly, hopefully this reported deal is true in one respect, we have sufficient money levels to spend on players. Fingers crossed for Martinez and Hazard. Even if Hazard did leave for Madrid, we could use him to bring back Ronaldo in a few years time.

£60 million on quality is something that i think we can all, and should all hope for.

RedDevil19

I read it earlier as a package of 45 million, 22 million in cash and 2 players out of bebe, macheda and petrucci, but none of those would equal 23 million so i think its definitely dodgy.

The report is that the deal is for £22million/25million Euros and 2 players. I still hope its not true.

TK-Red

The cash alone would certainly be sufficient.

RedDevil19

It said his buy out clause is 45 not that the deal was worth 45 I think something was lost in translation.

Shappy

Would anyone really want him? I for one think there is better. Munian to start.

Nozzla

I really wont be happy with the signing of Gaitan. Not that impressed with him. Hazard or Erikson over him.

Gar

The fact is all of you have to look deeper than whether they've personally impressed you.. You have to analyse players closely to see their strengths, what they could bring to the team and most importantly if they would fit in. Their attitude and work rate will be a huge aspect when moving to MUFC too. You can't just assume that any player will carry on playing the way they do for their club, after moving.

Also the bit about Ronaldo returning in a few years if Hazard was to move to us, then onto Real. Ronaldo will be 30, i highly doubt his legs will be as quick as they are now, that sort of player usually looses their physical ability faster than say, a centre back or a densive midfielder for example and will be less effective on that area of the pitch.

Ozwald

I find it unlikely in the extreme that we would let Petrucci go in this part exchange and if we did frankly I would be disgusted until at least he has had a chance to show us if he can make it. Petrucci wont be going anywhere unless he has had a chance and doesnt make it

Red Man

12 Apr 2012 16:35:35
Slightly off the subject of football, does anybody have any decent tips for the Grand National on Saturday?

{Ed007's Note - Have a look here:

www.footballrumoursbets.co.uk

Cheers Bond {Ed007's Note - No probs.}

My friends uncle used to own alfa beat (33/1). After he won kerry national in ireland the first time barry geragthy said he thought he could be national horse. The shark hanlon will defo have him ready too

GALWAY RED ^^^
(So u know who to blame :-))

12 Apr 2012 15:00:36
Manchester United first-team coach Rene Meulensteen has hailed Lille star Eden Hazard as a "special talent" as the club weigh up a bid for the Belgium international.

United are known to be interested in Hazard, 21, and Sir Alex Ferguson paid a visit to France last month to watch him in action in a 2-1 defeat to Lyon.

"The manager wanted to see Hazard," Meulensteen told Voetbal International. "That shows that he thinks he's an interesting player. We've spoken a lot about him.

"It's important for a club to keep refreshing the squad. Hazard is a special talent, but concluding these things always takes a while. For example, we were tracking David De Gea for a long time before we signed him.

"Ferguson wants to know the player's character, and because of that he makes personal trips to watch them. Hazard is the main man at Lille and so Ferguson wanted to see if that had had an influence on him."

Should they decide to make a bid, they will most likely face competition from a host of Premier League sides, while Bayern Munich have also been linked.

Thought I'd share this with ye.

Breeno

Anyone else think it's Rene Meulensteen's job to throw names out there as smoke screens, then we go for someone else?

Or does he just talk too much generally ; )

Gav

I think it is tactics here.

SAF knows he will only be able to sign Eden if the player himself pushes to come to Old Trafford.
That's why he showed the boy he cares and went over personally, as what I believe the first manager of any club.

Now Meulensteen wants to remind Hazard what he can have here.

Might be a smokescreen though, or turned into one, should we not be able to sign him.

Jonny8

Good point Jonny8, but I think everyone's first thought was 'is it a smokescreen?'

J Bones.

I think that we will go for him this summer and also martinez i dont think saf want modric anymore cause hes already 26 or 27

Has he not given similar interviews RE: Eriksen and Steklenburg (before DDG came)?

He gave a similar interview about Sneijder and we know we would have signed him if he wanted to come (i.e. if he was willing to accept 150k a week), so it could mean we are interested, but it would be a perfect smokescreen for signing any other Lille player.

12 Apr 2012 13:39:59
Was thinking with Adam Johnson looking likely to leave City, would United be worth putting a bid in for him? Would be very good as our other winger, way better then park and quicker and trickier then giggs, plus he has a good shot. Plays really wide but can easliy drift in. The more i think about it, the more id love him here. What do you guys think? And if any of you Eds are United fans throw us your opinion to? ;)

If i remember correctly when he was at middlesbrough we were waiting till the summer to sign him free he had been shown around ot aswell
then city came in and bought him in jan with 6months on contract

City would never sell to us, he will probably end up at Liverpool or Newcastle.

Anon

Good player.will never happen though.

This wouldn't happen let alone why would you want it to?
for starters he is a City player, so they wouldn't sell to us. Secondly he is someone who gets injured frequently not to mention cannot last a full 90mins. He also cannot break into the starting 11 at City.
Again, why would he be considered?

melwing28

It does not matter who man united bid for man city will bid higher just so we cant have them, we need a player that will play for Manchester united cause there Manchester united not for money.

12 Apr 2012 12:27:00
This is from a portuguese paper, sorry for the cut and paste ;

Manchester United have verbally agreed to sign Benfica's Nicolas Gaitan for £22million plus two young forward players in a swap deal.

Portuguese newspaper O Jogo claims the club are ready to take Gaitan in the summer and send the Lisbon club a couple of their cast-offs with the names of Kiko Macheda, Bebe and Davide Petrucci thrown into the article.
It is claimed that United's Portuguese scout Toninho Cruz has sent back ten reports on the Argentine midfielder while Sir Alex Ferguson has also seen him in the flesh at least twice this season, in the two clashes between the clubs.
Portuguese super agent Jorge Mendes brokered the deal alongside David Gill and the total value of the transfer is said to be worth the 45million euro release clause of the player.
Mendes helped United seal the £7.4million transfer of Bebe from Guimaraes two years ago and it would be no surprise to see him go as a makeweight in the deal, although he is currently on loan to Besiktas who have an option to sign him for £2million.
The report says that the deal will not be officially announced until the end of the season.

45 million euros, he ain't worth that!

Please dont sign this guy, have watched him a bit this season and trust me this guy is very over rated.Big time gamble for that money and at united we dont have that sort of money to throw away unlike our noisy neighbours.

I love the fact that most people think gaitan is crap well he not he is almost on verge of world class with the right coach aka Gregor behind him he one of the most techniquel wingers on the planet he better than nani and young already they rate home better than di Maria so he cnt be tht bad so shush up about him if he comes thn get behind him an u will see his magic like most of the critics on this site they watch him 2-3 times over course of a 60 game season and judge him on that pathetic

I agree that he is over rated and he aint worth that much of money and i prefer hazard but i'd still be happy if we sign him becasue we need a left footed left wing and i think hazard will leave in a couple of years if we sign him just like what ronaldo did

I would hate Petrucci to be sacrified for another winger.
he might just be the last hope for our central midfield from the reserves alongside Tunnicliffe.
I'd loose faith in Fergie should he again choose to sign wingers and whatever else, and leave our central midfield as it is, minus the potential of Morrisson & Pogba & potentially Petrucci!

Jonny8

What a waste of money this signing will be. I don't see what everyone sees in this guy, to me very overrated. Gaiten will add nothing to the bunch we have, much prefer rodriguez round the same price and 4 years younger. I agree shappy we need a good assistant but who, someone with new tactics, new system maybe beilsa from Bilbao? I don't agree with the players we have aren't good enough. Yes we got to three finals and lost two and won one on penaltys. The team is in decline, with the pl being so poor we are going to stumble to the title. So investment is needed no Excuses.

Abs

Lets wait and see coz there are other players whose rumours of joining man utd were like this and succeeded, like de gea and others did not like wesley sneidjer. What remains is for the fans to wait and hope for the best from mndez as he is involved nani and ronaldo deals

This is so unlikely to happen as fergie rates macheda and likens him to ruud van nistelrooy pettruci is the reserves skipper and united brought him in at 15 and gave his dad a job at carrington and benfica would be mad to take him on board

Can't believe we would consider including Petrucci.
He is a class act and if he can stay fit will be a top player.

I'm not convinced we're even after Gaitan tbh.

Think this is all smoke and mirrors.

I find it very hard to believe that saf would let petrucci and macheda leave unless it was on loan.that and 45million euros for gaitan is a joke.hes no better then what we have.what we need is hazard not gaitan.

12 Apr 2012 10:55:00
United Say that arnt interested in Strootman, But they are keeping an eye on Eiriksen.

It's Rene talking a load of b****cks again probably, remember he also said that Stekelenburg was our number one target...

rpc

12 Apr 2012 01:59:14
Supposedly united are banking on spurs signing hazard to free modric to move to united.im not liking this at all.im praying unitrd sign hazard hes a type player we need.i like modric but wud prefer the younger and cheaper version kovacic.on the chelsea forum it says 2 clubs are in advanced talks for him?could we be one of them?

I don't think negotiations work like that, there will be others interested in Hazard so us standing off of him to Spurs can sign him doesn't ring true. I'd rather have Hazard and Kovacic, Modric will be seriously overpriced.

RedDevil19