Manchester United Rumours Archive December 12 2012

12 Dec 2012 20:55:00
Ed 002,
Do you see SAF brining in reinforcements in the January transfer window, and if yes, what kind of player do you think he will go for? Thanks!

TomBomb {Ed002's Note - I suspect a midfield player will arrive.}

Strootman comes to mind for me.

-JakeW

Maybe if nani leaves, then James Rodrigues comes to mind. T45

Ed002, are you basing that assumption on us biding for Witsel in the summer or have you heard something that you may want to share?

Sydney! {Ed002's Note - I answered the question Syd.}

12 Dec 2012 15:15:34
a website reporting Vidic to return against Sunderland.

Can't wait if it's true, let's hope he finds some form to help us through the Christmas period

Covey

Yes utterly true my friend man mountain is back

Covey
Sir Alex said that himself
DJ

He was not that good before his long injury. I am not sure he will be as good as many expect.

There will be a lot of disappointed United fans.

12 Dec 2012 15:00:43
Would anyone take Arteta from Arsenal on the cheap? I feel he is so under-rated. Could be a good option as he isn't in the Spain setup and still has a few good seasons in him yet.

ALDUtd

Do we really want Arsenals average players?

-JakeW

12 Dec 2012 12:50:50
There has been a lot of talk on this site about what the current United team are lacking. Having watched him closely for the last year I think that James McCarthy is the man we need to finally replace Roy Keane. While people often highlight Keane's skills on the pitch what is often ignored is the centrality of Keane's dog walking prowess to his on field dominance. Simply put: since Keane's departure we have lacked a player with the ability to walk a dog regularly and to the limits of the dog's endurance.

McCarthy has all the attributes needed to walk a dog properly. Raised in the harsh wilds of Scotland he has been hardened to walk a dog in any conditions; hail, rain, snow or shine a McCarthy will be walked. He has the stamina, grit and determination required to walk a dog at the top level. Big dogs, small dogs, cross-breeds, there is no dog McCarthy wouldn't walk. We need a lead-er on the pitch, a man who can bark orders, who can take the ruff and tumble, and won't paws before diving into the tackle. We need James McCarthy.

Danny Pughnited

Isn't one of the editors on here his agent?

Are the eds allowed to post on here using other people's names lol we know it's you Bond!

Danny you just have to get me some of that stuff you have been taking.
JR-Red

Fantastic analogoy. I dip my hat to you sir.

He can play.

I heard that one reason Wanyama went to Celtic was so that he could learn how to properly walk a dog in the any terrain: Through the rough Glasgow streets, or all the way up the Cairngorms, this is why he gets my vote, it shows a willingness to learn and adapt

Jaxer

£20m on James McCarthy or £12m-£15m on Strootman or Lars Bender? I know what I'd prefer.

Sydney! {Ed007's Note - You could sell Cleverley for £8/10 million and put it towards McCarthy's fee, his wages would probably be cheaper as well and you would have a more reliable player.}

Wait are we talking about a player or a dog?

;)

-JakeW

£20m for McCarthy is a joke Ed007, I rate him as a decent player albeit he goes missing against us, £10m yes, £20m no chance. I would prefer to keep Cleverley and I am sure the manager would too.

Sydney! {Ed007's Note - I liked Cleverley but now that he is 23 he really is very, very average. Just like Welbeck, if he wasn't a Utd player would you want the club to go out and sign him? People get blinkered because they came through the youth set-up, I wouldn't have either of them near Utd's first team, maybe the manager doesn't have many options just now.}

Cleverley's age is irrelevant Ed, he had two season long injury's and he is in the middle of his first season as a United and England player. He will improve a lot over the next couple of seasons just like McCarthy improved with EPL experience. If Cleverley was available for £8m I would certainly want the club to sign him.

Sydney! {Ed007's Note - How is his age irrelevant Syd, if that's the case then why not move for Lampard? It seems to be an important factor when Scholes and Giggs are getting picked ahead of him and everyone is moaning, plus players in the same age group have played treble the amount of games he has, at 23 he should be playing every week if he is fit.
You are saying Cleverley will improve over the next couple of seasons, I'd say Man Utd can't afford to give him that time, and what if he gets another injury, by your own admission Cleverley has his injury problems, give him until he is 26 to see if he has improved?
If Utd go out and buy two CMs I would bet my last £ that it would be Cleverley that would be benched, if he is fit enough to make the bench.
If Utd were to sell him, what do you think the asking price would be and what level of club would be interested? I would be shocked if it was a big-hitting CL team. If Utd could get £15-20 million by selling both Cleverley and Welbeck they would be sold, as long as replacements were lined up. Look at Wilshire at Arsenal, 3 years younger than Cleverley, been out for a season with an injury and is a better player by a country mile.}

I agree with the ed I think cleverly is average and basically not good enough to be a starter in our midfield I fail to see what he adds to the team! maybe syd could enlighten me?

Jamal

Surely cleverly is at least a good squad player unless someone else comes through soon.

Supasub

Age is irrelevant as he is still inexperienced in the EPL. We will have a better idea of what Cleverley can offer a year from now. Wilshere irrespective of age has two years experience in the EPL. As for his 'injury problems' they were both down to bad tackles that could have injured anyone. He does not suffer with persistent muscle strains and tears like Anderson for example.

I am all for buying a couple central midfielder because if Cleverley is good enough he will earn his place in the side. I do not think he should be given it without earning it. At the very worst he will make a very good squad player. I am not saying Cleverley is the answer to our midfield or that we shouldn't improve the midfield because of him, all I am saying is he is a very useful player and when he gets the sufficient experience we will see the best of him. Lets be fair Ed, he hasn't done anything wrong this season other than being a little too careful. With more appearances he will gain more confidence and he will take more chances. He is clearly lacking experience and that is why I think he needs to be given a year before written off, however we should still strengthen in the meantime.

Sydney!

Let's be honest, Cleverly wouldn't leave the house if there was a light drizzle. If you want a player capable of walking a dog at the top level, McCarthy is the only option.

Seriously though if McCarthy was playing for a bigger team people would be fawning over him. We're talking about a 22 year old with nearly 200 PL games under his belt, so I don't see how 15-20m is an obscene amount. The lad has improved every year, is a model professional and is at the point where he is going to make the move to a top club sooner rather than later. He is exactly the type of player United should be going for, and if he goes elsewhere I think we will have made a huge mistake.

Danny Pughnited

I guess there is a reason why no top club have paid £15m-£20m for McCarthy. I think he is a good player, but there are better and cheaper options out there. I would prefer a Roy Keane as opposed to a Darren Fletcher and I think McCarthy is more of a Darren Fletcher than a Roy Keane. IMO he should stand out much more in a poor Wigan side than he actually does. Against us he has been non-existent.

Sydney!

Well lets be fair then, does cleverly ever stand out in what I think is an average midfield!

Cleverly played along side McCarthy whilst on season loan at Wigan, seem to remember Cleverly was the better player. Agree with Sidney lets give him a seasons experience under the guildance of SAF
Acker

I've always said Cleverley is an average player and no more than a squad player. But at united you need a youth product as an advert for the club and incentive for the players coming through. Cleverley and Welbeck are the best we have until Wilson, Keane etc come through. That's why they wont be sold until there is a young player capable of taking there place with Powell and Henriquez brought for that reason IMO. Powell will be a lot better than Cleverley and Henriquez will be a lot better than Welbeck. I've been saying Cleverley and Welbewck are pretty average for months Ed but most fans don't want to listen because they are academy products and people like to just blindly pretend they will somehow become great players with mindless loyalty.

Dan

I agree since roy keane has left we have lacked that kind of player in the midfield mcarthy of wigan is a great player would love him at man utd but the game has progressed since the 90s and we cant keep looking at the past saying look at keane or ronaldo or van der sar etc we have to move forward forget about the past and focus on moving the club forward and adapting with the game and i would take mcarthy but not to replace keane

THE HEMMINATOR

Dan, lets be careful here mate. William Keane has had two bad injuries and he turns 20 in a couple weeks. He is still yet to have his couple of loans and before you know it he will be 22/23 and people saying if he was any good he would be in the United 1st team. Cleverley has had two seasons out with injury and to be fair he has played about the same amount of football as Wootton who is 21. I am not saying Cleverley will make it as a regular or that he will replace Scholes, just that he is Young and inexperienced and needs to be given time. At the very least he will be an excellent squad player.

Sydney!

I don't get that hate towards Cleverley and Welbeck. If they played for Arsenal everyone would rave about them.

They're are great talents. You don't have to be a regular at their age, especially not at a club like United. People are spoilt with talents like Rooney or Fabregas who can play at the highest level at a very young age but that is not how all young player develop.

Last season everyone loved Welbeck and Cleverley at the start of last season. Cleverley got injured and Welbeck has a bad season so far when he is primarily used on the wings. Hernandez was rubbish last season and everyone wanted to get rid of him..... and now look at him.

Both have the potential to be regulars for United and already showed enough promise in their games for us. It's proper rubbish that they have to be regulars now. And if Cleverley is not good enough for United then McCarthy definitely isn' good enough either.

I know Syd but he was in the first team plans this season before his injury and is naturally a more talented player than Welbeck. I think next season we will see Keane/ replace Welbeck and if not then it will be the season after. SAF said he had no plans to send him on loan and that shows how highly he rates him as Giggs and Scholes never went on loan. Either way I dont see Welbeck as a future regular especially out wide.
Powell is supremely talented and if he develops as planned then Clevs doesn't have a chance in cementing a long term regular place.
Sorry mate but I dont buy this "inexperienced" saying. Like Ed said he is 23 had an injury last season but has had a good few years playing first team mens football in the championship and the PL with Watford, Wigan and us. I'm sure we have had this convo before on here about Clevs. He hasn't even shown a glimpse of even becoming worthy of taking over Scholes. at 24 years old Scholes and co won the treble....

Dan

Will Keane will certainly go out on loans and I have heard the manager say as much. Cleverley played a handful of games for Wigan in the EPL and he was exceptional at Watford scoring 11 goals in 33 games. The he got a bad injury and it put him back a season. This is Cleverley's first proper season as a United and England player, give him time. In regards to Welbeck he was very highly rated as a youngster just like Wilson and Keane are. The difference is you didn't watch Cleverley and Welbeck as youth products, I DID.

You are making the rather silly assumption that because Cleverley isn't a fully fledged United player at 23 that he is never going to be. It's nothing to do with age, it's to do with experience and development.

Sydney!

I watched Cleverley as a 19 year old. The assumption is not really silly when you compare it to all the other top mids around. Wilshere, Xavi, Iniesta, Scholes, Giggs and many more. None had loan spells, all were in the first team as teenagers playing regularly such was their ability. Cleverley is not as talented technically and doesn't have the natural apptitude for the game that any of them have hence the continued loan moves to try and bring him up to that level. He is still not there and the apptitude that Scholes, Xavi, Pirlo etc have is god given not developed over loan spells. Experience helps but wont get him to that level. Welbeck was highly rated but not as highly as W Keane. I get massively frustrated watching Welbeck play especially.

Dan

13 Dec 2012 09:02:10
Sorry dan but syd is right here. It simply doesn't work that way. David Beckham went on loan to Preston, Jonny Evans went on loans to Antwerp and Sunderland as did Pique, Rossi, Fabio. Powell, Petrucci, both Keanes and Tunnicliffe will all go out on loan at some stage. Players do not go out on loan because they are not good enough, it is so they can gain much needed experience instead of rotting in the reserves. Wilshere went out on loan and would have went out on a second season long loan had Samir Nasri and Cesc Fabregas not been injured. Being a Palace fan I can remember watching Cleverly at Watford and thinking he will be a star. I do believe he got player of the season and if it wasn't for a bad injury he would have got into the United squad the season after that. Injury has prevented him from breaking into the United squad, not talent. -MB-

Dan, trust me age has nothing to do with it. Many players develop around 23/24/25 and it isn't until they have had a run of games that the penny drops for them. It's unfair to write off Cleverley without giving him a run in the side.

As for loans is this the same Pirlo that was loaned out twice to Reggina and Brescia between the ages of 19-22. The same Wilshere that went out on loan to Bolton and was going to return there the season after if it wasn't for Cesc's injury? Like MB has mentioned all of the above will go out on loan, including Blackett, Daehli, Januzaj etc. Loan moves are important for a player's development.

Sydney!