12 Sep 2012 21:53:11
Thinking about a way of improving our midfield. I know Fabregas is unlikely but we should definitely give it a try.
What may suit both clubs is if we buy Fabregas but that his contract has a buy back clause, Barca have done this with Romeu. He wants to play first team but obviously Xavi is in his way and will be for 3 or so years until he gets into his mid 30s and is unable to play regularly at which point barca could activate his buy back clause and take him back. It would also suit us because Cleverley should improve (though I still feel he wont be good enough) and so should our even more promising academy players like Daehli to take that place. Obviously Barca would like to keep him and I'm not sure if Fabregas would want to play for us but it would make sense for both clubs if he really pushes for a move.
Thoughts/bashing?
Dan
Let's improve a player for 3 or so years, stump Cleverlys experience, then sell the player back to his original club a better alround player and be back to square 1. What aload of rubbish. If you get a player in you do not want to basically loan them for x years and stump other players potential. Don't get me wrong I would love Fabragas but for a good 5-6 years. Not 2-3 years.
Redchad
Its all about value so the transfer price would be taken into account by such a deal. I still dont think Cleverley is going to be anywhere near good enough to take Scholes' place there are plenty of better Mids around who are much younger than him. Name a top 4 side whos midfield is not better than ours:
City - Yaya, Silva
Chelsea - Lampard, Ramires, Mikel
Arsenal - Diaby, Wilshere, Cazorla
I would even say that Parker and Dembele are as good or better than Carrick and Cleverley. This is not to mention european clubs. Cleverley would still get game time because it would only be him and Fabregas for that position next season and Fabregas wouldn't play every match. Say 3-4 years if he signs a 5 year contractm, we now have a great strike force and defence (when all are fit) and IMO Cleverley is a very weak link in our midfield.
Dan
Completely misses the point that Cesc really wants to live in Spain, and who can blame him for making a lifestyle choice.
Dan, I completely disagree. Cleverley is a breath of fresh air in the midfield. Always wanting the ball, always finding space, great passer of the ball and always playing at a high tempo. A midfield of Carrick, Cleverley & Kagawa is better than Arsenal's midfield, as good as Chelsea's. Better than Spurs' midfield and only City's is better on paper. If we had signed someone like Witsel in the summer Witsel, Cleverley & Kagawa would have matched any midfield. Cleverley isn't the issue, Kagawa and Cleverley both play at a high tempo, but Carrick doesn't play that way. Carrick is the problem IMO for that very reason. Cleverley and Kags are running around and causing the opposition problems whereas Carrick holds onto the ball for too long and ruins our tempo. Like Berbatov he is a good player, but not suited to our new style of play.
Sydney!
Fair play syd, I don't always agree with your points but this time you are spot on! I've thought for a long time carrick is a very good player but too slow. Alex song would have been a good addition but hey ho we will do what we can until January.
IMO scholes offers alot still and will probably start against Wigan
Q
I just don't see the quality with Cleverley, good he is always on the move but he always passes sideways for the easy ball. Players at united keep praising him and Cleverley keeps seeking out praise but for me it is to mask his shortcomings. Kagawa, Van Persie etc have lavished praise on Scholes without metioning Cleveley because they know that someone of Scholes' quality retiring is going to cost us a lot (as shown against Southampton). As soon as Cleverley came off and Scholes came in then the game was completely different. I really dont think Carrick and Cleverley will be better than Wilshere and Cazorla Syd, there was a reason why SAF was so intersted in Wilshere for the past two seasons he is the only English player who has enough ability (technically) to be as good as Scholes and Cazorla is a class act. Kagawa is a top player i am really glad we got him but IMO in the PL he is not able to play deeper than between the lines because he is getting pushed off the ball a lot. Hopefully with time he should improve not getting knocked o the ball and out muscled but its no guarentee. A football brain, vision and natural technical ability is not something that can be taught as easily as tactics and unlike Wilshere, Mcceughran, Ward-Prowse, Barkley and even Powell Cleverley doesn't have these assets. He has a good ability to get in good positions but against top sides it wont work and even against tenacious and well organised sides like Southampton and Ukraine as shown in the matches then it wont work. Why would SAF have brought Powell, keen to make him a centre mid and already in the first team if he had complete faith in Cleverley?
You have to think about it as well in that we prize our club on our academy players becoming first team players. If players aren't breaking through to the first team then no one is going to want to join the academy because there is no hope. I think if we buy another CM in January or the summer then that will show how much faith SAF really has in Cleverley.
Btw I think different of Welbeck, he has great natural/technical ability and you can see with future great players that they have that little extra space in their head when they are attacking just to pass the ball forwards. Clevs doesn't have that either IMO but Welbeck will be top quality.
Dan
Dan, he bought Powell to replace Pogba in the squad. The manager clearly has faith in Cleverley and rightly so as he will be a very good player for us for years to come. The fact we never signed a top midfielder shows exactly how the manager feels about Cleverley and I fully agree with him. I have been watching Cleverley since he was 15 and he has always stood out as a technically gifted player. He has started the season being extra careful and hasn't taken too many risks as yet, probably due to fear of getting injured. I have no doubt this time next season Cleverley will be our number one midfielder and a midfield built around him. You clearly haven't seen enough of Cleverley to pass a fair judgment. I will be interested to see your opinion in a year's time mate.
Sydney!
I will be happy to give my opinion even if i am wrong and i'm not saying he isn't a good player just not got the attributes to be a great player. Do you see him being able to reach the level of Silva, Wilshere, Oscar, Cazorla, Cabaye, Nasri, Diaby, Ramirez, Dembele? Because they are who we will be competing against for a good few years and all are more gifted than Cleverley and more gifted. I think Daehli, Powell, Januzaj and Pereira could reach their level and maybe surpass them but I can't see that sort of ability in Cleverley. Good point with Powell taking Pogbas spot but Pogba has a more defensive side of his game than Powell and Powell Couldn't replace Carrick like Pogba could. i have seen Cleverley for Wigan and when he was playing last season. Injury proneness not included I still dont think he is good enough and I think a lot of his chances are given due to manchester uniteds principle of playing academy players. I think he could become a squad player but nothing more. I am in favour of keeping him but am just saying if we are sincerely wanting to win the PL and CL we need to bring in a top class playmaker in the mould of Scholes and as such we should be doing all that is humanly possible to bring in Fabregas in January. If we did that then our team would be complete for a long long time.
Dan
Syd
if clevs is our number one midefielder in 12 month and our midfield is built around him where will that leave our midfield?
is that not building him up just a bit, if we are going to build our midfield around a player i would hope it was a very special player.
this time next year do you think clevs will be in the top 10 CM in the world
jred
Dan
you could add schweinstiger martinez xavi inesta mata silva vidal yaya ozil the list goes on, if clevs is our best CM in 12 months time then he will have to improve an awful lot or our best CM will not be as good as our rivals.
jred
Jred, what I mean is we will buy a midfielder to play alongside him, not a player to replace him.
I am not building Clevz up to be anything, just confident he will replace Scholes when he retires next summer.
Sydney!
Give Clevs a chance, he's had limited 1st team experience due to injuries thus far. He keeps the ball well and the goals will come if he keeps getting into those positions like he did for England the other night. He's not Keano or Scholes because he's a new breed of modern footballer (tackling is not allowed now).
Syd
i see what your saying and I also agree i do think he will replace scholes but if im honest im not sure his going to be good enough against the very best in europe.
what do you think his best position is
jred
Dan, Cesc is just not going to happen. Wilshere is no further ahead than Cleverley and none of your other examples play in Cleverley's position bar Cabaye. If Cleverley was at Arsenal we would all be treating him like Wilshere now, cow in the field and all that. Nasri, Oscar, Cazorla, Silva are more advanced than Cleverley and would sit in front of them and Ramires, Dembele & Diaby are player you'd expect to see next to Cleverley. Cabaye is currently a better player than Cleverley, but is also a few years older. I cannot remember watching a 22/23 year old Cabaye and thinking we must sign him. Cleverley needs a season before he is judged. 15 competitive games for club and country in two season's isn't enough.
Sydney!
Agreed Jred yeah I was thinking just the PL. Clevs might become a good player but as a united player you need to be a world beater and he is definitely no world beater like POTENTIALLY Wilshere, Barkley, Powell and Mceughran (if he grows a bit). Keep him in the squad by all means but he is not top class material and should DEFINITELY not have a team built around him! If Saf wants to wait for Powell/Daehli to mature I understand but I think all this posturing over Clevs taking over Scholes is just academy marketing and lets be honest players don't improve without confidence and first team chances so until there is someone to take Scholes' mantle from him they will continue to build him up.
Dan
Problem is very few players are going to be as talented as the class of 92.
I think the reason for SAF going abroad to get Daehli, Januzaj, Pereira etc is to find youngsters who are as talented as Scholes and Giggs (and the other team members of 99).
Dan
thats my point , i think most people would agree clevs is going to be a good player but is he going to be good enough to play for a top European team in CM. I think madrid barce and munich are the best 3 team in europe at the moment ,would clevs get in to there team or hold his own against them , im not sure.
We need to improve the midfield IMO , is clevs the man to help us make the step up to munich etc standard.
clevs and kagawa are the same age i think 1 has the potential to be a real star im not sure about the other.
I think there is only one way to find out and that is to give him a chance, thats what i think fergy has decided to do this year and i hope he does well and makes the grade
jred
Jred, Yaya, Vidal & Martinez would play alongside Cleverley. Oezil, Mata, Silva & Iniesta would play ahead of Cleverley. Xavi and Schweinsteiger would play in Cleverley's position and both are better players than him. But Schweiny has had SEVEN full years in BM midfield, Xavi has had 13 seasons in Barcelona's midfield. Cleverley needs time.
Did you know that Barcelona fans didn't rate Xavi at all in his early 20's. But he turned into a quality player and the style he plays is closest to how to describe Clevz. I am not saying he is close to Xavi's class, just that the way he plays is similar to Cleverley. Cleverley wouldn't look out of place in La Liga, he is as technically good as most Spanish players.
Sydney!
Xavi didn't become first choice at Barcelona until he was 25/26 and we didn't see the best of Xavi until 2009 when he was 29 years old.
Patience is a virtue ;)
Sydney!
Syd
we have had this crack before barce fans rated xavi he was considered spains top prospect for a while ,the issues the fans had with him was broken promises from the board over big name signings and xavi got it in the next at first.
you say clevs will be our star cm next year but would that be good enough against yaya martinez oezil silva etc will he be good enought to boss midfields containing players of that calibre.
we need to improve our CM if we want to be the best in europe , i think clevs will be an improvement on what we have got but im not sure if his the man to take us to the level of barce munich etc,
you do no probs footballs about opinions
jred
Syd they are different players but Clevs has played number 10 as well as alongside Carrick so he until this season he has typically played ahead of the midfield. Beginning of the season before last Clevs was more of in a diamond with Ando as the DM and fair play it worked well. This was not a Xavi-esque role he is now playing for us at. I know Wilshere has been injured but you really cant say that Cleverley is as good as Wilshere that would be mental Wilshere is Englands Best player with Rooney! They are the only two with that creative spark of genius to make something happen out of nothing. In the end if we keep Cleverley (which I hope we do) then he should be a squad player/backup player to Scholes or a new signing like Fabregas because without Scholes on the bench we would not be challenging for the title in the PL or Europe.
These next few years are some of the most important ever for us! If our standards drop and we under perform then with FFP we could be stuck in a spiral of decline and FFP would make it very difficult to get out of that.
Dan
Xavi didn't become first choice at Barcelona until he was 25/26
sydney
im sorry pal but i think you have been misinformed about xavi.
he was a top young player and an established player for barce when he was 19.
by the time he was 21 he had played 101 games for barce by the age of 26 he had played 323 games.
jred
Jred, you cannot say because City, Barcelona, RM etc have better midfielders than Cleverley that they will beat us. It doesn't work that way as Fletcher has proven on many occasions for us. It's a team game, not about individuals. Schweinsteiger and Xavi were once not immediate first choice for their clubs, but they are now after years of progression and trust from their managers.
I wouldn't say Cleverley will be a star, surely 'star' is subjective? Cleverley will be a very good player for us and he will win midfield battles and lose some. Keane and Scholes never won every midfield battle. People forget that we used to lose games to other teams and win 3.2 against some, back then though that was stuff of champions, if we win 3.2 against Southampton now it's because we are a poor team.
Sydney!
Dan, I don't see Cleverley as a number 10 mate. I also do not think Wilshere is much further along than Cleverley is right now. Wilshere is naturally gifted whereas Cleverley works hard to be the player he is, but there isn't much between them at all. If Wilshere played for us and Cleverley played for Arsenal everyone would want Cleverley.
Can you explain what you mean about the FFP please? Thanks bud.
Sydney!
Jred, I never said he didn't play a load of games for Barcelona, I said he wasn't an immediate first choice selection for the first team. Edmilson, Van Bommel & Deco made up the midfield trio.
I am talking about when Xavi was classed as immediate first choice for Barcelona. The time when they decided that Xavi is the first choice for his position. That wasn't until he was 25/26. There is a difference.
Sydney!
To have over 300 performances before he was 25 starting at 19 shows that he had over 50 games a season Sydney. Scholes only became no.1 at 21 years old and Cleverley cant do it now as a 23 year old being only in competition with Scholes at 37. Either way there is a much bigger talent and development gap between Xavi and Cleverley than you are making out there to be.
I have to say Xavi was a lot further ahead than Cleverley with the amount of games he was trusted with at a young age. Trying to compare Xavi and Cleverley is like comparing Djemba Djemba to Scholes IMO. Scholes broke into the first team at 20, needed no loan spells and was a first team regular at 21 IIRC. Correct me if i'm wrong.
Dan
Syd
in 2002 he played 52 games
in 2003 he played 44 games
2004 he played 49 games
how can you play that amount off games and not be first choice?
in that time xavi played 149 games
van bommel 102
Deco didnt even join barce until xavi was 25 and who the hell is edmilson?
jred
Dan, I am not comparing Xavi to Cleverley, I made it clear that I said Xavi is a far better player. What I am saying is Xavi wasn't first choice for Barcelona until he was 25/26. Meaning lets see how Cleverley is at 25/26.
Jred, what are you talking about. Was Nicky Butt first choice for United? No Keane and Scholes were, yet in the same time period Butt played 387 games for United. What you are showing me is irrelevant to my point.
Xavi went from a regular player to a first choice player when he was 25/26 years old.
Sydney!
Regarding FFP it means we can't have one season of heavy spending to rebuild the squad if we have a bad season because anything moving away from break even/profit towards a loss will be subject to sanctions. Even if city have massive losses then as long as they are moving towards break even then they will be let off with warnings and harshley worded letters (as the liverpool owner puts it). I think this season is the most important season in my lifetime regarding the future of the club. If city and Chelsea finish above us then prize money will reduce, sponsorship deals will be harder to find and players will be harder to get hence the downwards spiral. This is why we are trying to tie up a hell of a lot of sponsorship deals now (DHL, GM and working on a massive new Nike shirt deal) so that if we do drop off in the next few years then the sponsorship deals should keep our revenue and buying power up. A lot hinges on the next season and whoever wins the league will have a lot of commercial momentum going forwards and a big advantage over their competitors. Of course as united we will always, commercially be up there with anyone but by winning the league then you have no idea how much of an impact it would have on city because it would question their longevity to sponsors and cutting their income from tv rights by 30m will cost them massively because their wage bill is already matching their revenue. If I could get a look at their accounts it would be possible to see how much they are banking on attaining a certain amount of tv revenue to meet the FFP requirements.
This is also the reason we are keen to implement our own FFP in the PL sooner and with tougher sanctions because it represents a chance to blunt city's spending sooner and that would have the spiraling down effect i mentioned earlier.
e.g.
1. sanctions of docked pl points = lower position in the PL = less prize money = less spending power
2. CL ban = Top players forcing a move away for European football
3. Withholding prize money = less buying power
Restricting money may also compound their FFP problems and cause them to sell more players to break even etc so you can see how it would work. We are trying to use this as a weapon.
I think the proposed PL FFP rules lead by David Gill and the Liverpool owners requre the support of 16 PL clubs. For a start I can see City, Chelsea and QPR not supporting them so it is very marginal into whether they get approved.
To summarize, we could screw city over on FFP if we can deny them TV rights money which is divided up depending on your end position in the league. TV rights is the biggest revenue stream even more so for city.
Dan
Syd
i think we have got of track you said
" I have no doubt this time next season Cleverley will be our number one midfielder and a midfield built around him."
i have simply quested if that midfield would be good enough against the very top teams.
i dont think his good enough to build a midfield around you do no probs , i hope your right.
my own thoughts are we have been crying out for a worldclass cm for a few year , i think it would be the missing link and really improve us unfortunately i dont think clevs is that man , hope im wrong
jred
Dan, Manchester United are the best placed club in the Europe for the FFP rulings. Based on last years accounts alone we have a FFP break-even result of +£53m. No one other than Arsenal are even close to that. This calculation isn't including our Chevrolet deal or the DHL training kit sponsor which will add £20m a season to the revenue from 2012/13-2013/14 and £35m a year after that.
United are one of the few clubs that could go out and spend a fortune in one window.
Sydney!
Syd
your wrong end off
if xavi wasnt first choice in 2002/03/04 who was
how do you play 52 games in a season and not be first choice.
if your so clued up on the subject can you explain your "edmilson , van bommel deco comment"
as deco didnt even join the club until xavi was 25 the age at which you say xavi became first choice
same goes for van bommel who only ever played a total of about 30 games for barce
and edmilson played more at cb than cm
jred
Dan, I think you are a little confused about prize money and sponsorships. We will always outdo Chelsea and City in terms of sponsorship deals whether we are winning the league or not. We have just secured a £45m a year GM deal at £45m a year, Chelsea have struggled to get a £15m deal with Samsung. City need to get their friends to sponsor them otherwise they wouldn't secure a sponsorship deal half as large as the one they got with Etihad.
The difference between finishing 1st and 3rd in the EPL in prize money is £1.6m. We were out of the UCL at a group stage and we still pocketed £36.4m from Europe. The winners only got £59.9m. United are in very good shape and we will continue to be the richest club on the planet.
Sydney!
Jred, the same reason Nicky Butt averaged 40 games per a season in the same ten years as Scholes and Keane were at the club. Was Nicky Butt first choice Jred? I am not saying Xavi wasn't a top quality player at 22/23/24. I am not saying that he never played regularly. All I am saying is he became 'undoubtedly' first choice for his position during the 2006/07 season. Meaning he never had a rival for his position as he was 'undoubtedly' first choice. That his name was one of the first on the teamsheet.
Why are you finding that hard to grasp?
Sydney!
Yes but Syd your champs league pay out is dependent on your league position I think and i am sure that it is not just a 1.6m pound difference I will find out shortly exactly what the difference in payout is. I have already stated that we have advantages in sponsorship but we are pushing those now because in a couple of years then it may not be possible if we are not doing well on the pitch. David Gill has said this himself. I think this has been shown with SAF buying RVP and no matter the likelyhood of it happening he would be more than willing to spend a fortune bringing Fabregas or Ronaldo to OT. The most important thing is success in the next few seasons because that is the best way to stall city's long term plans as well as sustain our own. I'm not saying we will be poor but the amount we would stand to lose compared to what we could gain is massive! We are looking for a 40m + a year deal with Nike after they gave the French national team 35m a year and negotiations aren't easy when your long term future is being questioned.
Also, a mate told me that the Etihad sponsorship was under review and likely to be banned because it is a family member involved and new guidelines will stop this, Ed do you know if that's true?
Dan {Ed002's Note - They cannot stop the sponsorship but, as I explained, UEFA are looking to introduce a sponsorship cap - a figure which would be the maximum taken in to account for the purposes of FFP. There is no agreement of a figure yet and it would need ratification.}
I'd be happy to build a team around a CM involving Cleverly ONLY if we buy a quality partner for him - someone who is strong, can tackle but play a good pass too. Khedeira is a good example but I'm not sure we've got a chance of getting him. A partner like this would allow Cleverly the freedom to look forwards more often and I agree with Syd in as much as - I think Clevs is a promising ball-playing CM who with greater confidence and experience will start to play more progressive balls (rather than sideways/backwards). I rate Cleverly but doubt he will quite reach 'world class' status, however, alongside a top quality holding midfielder we could have a 'world class' CM partnership (if that makes sense lol)
Gav
Jred xavi recently revealed that he had an offer from manchester united in his early years he said he was considering as he couldn't get a first team start because guardiola was ahead off him I'm sure you will find it somewhere on the net if you look
K210
Gav, it makes perfect sense. As long as the central midfield compliment each other well, they could be a stronger unit than three individuals who are better on paper.
Sydney!
It does Gav but a club like ours should always be pushing towards two world class CMs IMO e.g Scholes and Keane. I'm a little confused myself on Carrick in whether I think we should use him or not. Top player in a rare mold of Pirlo but doesn't fit in with our fast flowing style (I agree with Sydney on that). Again a usefull squad member but not someone I would like to see in our starting 11. Personally I think M'vila is the perfect fit for us but for some reason SAF doesn't. I have also watched clips of Lucas Evangelista who we supposedly have first dibs on but he will have to do a year at Antwerp before we could bring him in. Tunners as well is an option and possibly why SAF doesn't want to splash out now. I do have a feeling that Cleverleys season will have a big impact on the clubs summer spending.
Dan
Syd because you never said that you said
"Xavi didn't become first choice at Barcelona until he was 25/26"
which is untrue
xavi tore his knee ligaments when he was 25 and missed nearly all the season he was nearly 27 when he declared he felt "back to full fitness and i feel like a footballer again"
he was one of the first names on the teamsheet and was made vice captain when he was 23.
how can a player play 52 games in a season and not be first choice.
well the only way is to decide that first choice means he hasnt got a rival .
i could argue on but its pointless cos you will never accept you might be wrong.
just out of interest in 2002 whe xavi played 52 games what was barce first choice midfield?
jred
Gav
yer i would agree with that
jred
Surely the market should determine sponsorship values otherwise the Etihad will just match the capped value every time even though in the market they couldn't reach a figure that we could? Ed? {Ed002's Note - No, you misunderstand. If a cap is brought in it does not stop clubs getting as much sponsorship as they can - it simply caps the amount that can be used for the FFP calculations. For example, if there is a 70M euro cap and Club X has 100M euro income from sponsorship, then 30M euro of income will not be allowable for the purposes of calculation.}
Dan, clubs who either win the UCL or finish higher in the top four do get a higher pool share of the UCL money. But prize money in the EPL is £800k a place.
1st - £20m
2nd - £19.2m
3rd - £18.4m
4th - £17.6m
Sydney!
Jred, Cocu, Edmilson, Guardiola, Deco, Xaxi, Van Bommel, Marquez were all part of Barcelona's midfield for years. Xavi was a mainstay in and around the team as he was a product of La Masia, but his position was always under threat and always needed to play well to get played.
All I am saying is it wasn't till he was around 25/26 that no one rivaled him for his position. He was first name on the teamsheet every game. The penny dropped so to speak, perhaps this was when he started being accepted by all of the Barcelona fans and he started to inherit the "world-class" title.
Sydney!
Ok Syd granted it looks like you were right on the PL prize money front but I stand by saying that becoming champions of the league can mean the difference of tens of millions in revenue. I dont know exactly how its done but in 2008 Cl winning season we got 85m from CL prize money because we won the PL as well. When Chelsea won the CL this summer they only got 48m in prize money because they lower in the PL (im not sure if it is based on this year or last year). You get a different % of the available CL prize money depending on your league finish. I don't know exactly how its done but nearly 40m extra is a lot of money and it could not have happened without winning the league. This is why SAF has said that the league is his main priority as well as getting out of the group stages of the CL. In 2014 then the difference in prize money will also grow as the TV rights pool grows.
Ed perhaps you know roughly how the CL money is distributed as a result of a teams position in the PL?
Dan {Ed002's Note - Chelsea made more than 48M in CL money last season.}
Guess I shouldn't believe the telegraph then Ed? {Ed002's Note - I have no idea what you are reading but you are misunderstanding something.}
It says $73.1m prize money all over the internet.....
Dan, Chelsea earned £59.9m give or take a few quid. You are right that winning the league gives you a larger pool share of the UCL money. I have already said that in a previous post. But 10's of millions difference is a little extreme. The pool share is around £30m and 40% of it will go to the title winners, 30% to the runners up, 20% to the 3rd placed side and 10% to the 4th placed side.
Sydney!
Dan, so the pool share is £12m for the League Champions, £9m runners up, £6m for 3rd placed, £3m for 4th placed.
So not quite 10's of millions my friend. As long as United can get past the group stages and finish in the top four the club will continue to be a money making machine.
Sydney!
Cocu played a bit but not as many as xavi
edmilson played 71 games in 4 years many off them as cb.
guardiola left the club when xavi was 21.
van bommel was at barce for 1 season.
marquez was a CB who sometimes played in a defensive midfield role.
deco was a top player .
xavi was a first choice player before he was 25 he was def first choice cm before any of them players , he improved and made a step up when he was about 27 as did barce.
i dont know why you have such an issue with that
jred
Jred, that is what I was getting at. It wasn't til 25/26 that Xavi was appreciated 100% by his fans. Then it wasn't til he was around 28/29 that he got star status so to speak.
Sydney!
OK Syd but united earned 85m so it is a tens of millions difference according to what i have read.
Dan
Dan, in 2010/11 United earned £46m in the UCL in prize money. Add £12m to that for the pool share and that is what we made (£58m).
Sydney!
My bad, we earned £46m in 2010/11.
Sydney!