18 Aug 2013 20:09:34
Anybody think that Welbeck is a better partner for RVP than Rooney?
Personally, I think his penetration in behind the opposition's defence is really dangerous, more so than Rooney, who plays a completely different role. Although, we haven't seen Rooney play that forward role since the 09-10 season, so we don't really know what he's capable of in that role. Also, remember he scored high 20's in the league that season.
On the transfers front, I'd love to see Modric, fantastic player. Anderson looked useful when he came on; dynamic and always moving the ball. Agree with people that we could do with Coentrao/Baines; I'd be astounded if Evra could continue this form all season, plus either of those players could do a good job on the left side of a 4 man midfield.
Against Swansea, the defence looked as solid as I've seen it for a long time. Everything was dealt with by Rio and Vidic, also spotted Carrick dropping back a few times in between those two; interesting. Only time I can remember the defence being tested was when Jones got sucked in, and Routledge had a free run at Rio who lost his footing. The goal was Welbeck and Clev's fault. Also, does anybody think our defensive line is slightly deeper than under SAF? I think we look really solid here and it bodes well for European football I think.
Cheers.
Our defense was shocking! We were all over the place & struggled with Michu's movement.
Welbeck had a great game, let's not kid ourselves into thinking he's better than Rooney.
Dan
I love Rooney but we would never of bought rvp if he'd been the player he should of been over the last 3 years, now we've got rvp it's given Rooney a massive problem as Hernandez and Danny have both looked more dangerous with him than Rooney . I'd like to see a quality midfielder and winger then give Hernandez and Danny a good run in the side while Rooney is here then let him go next year once we know if we need another world class forward or the the 2 can step up to be world class
Dustbin
Welbeck has a good game and suddenly he is better than Rooney who is our 4th highest scorer. If Welbeck does it over a season then we can have the conversation.
On your assertion about Modric, he just isn't that good, when compared to Fabregas he is on a much lower level. Do we really want that much lower in standard?
Finally our defence did ok against Swansea but how much was because our central midfield was not wide open as it has been in recent years.
Wayne Rooney should play in central midfield, which is what we tried to do last season. He wants to be the main striker but he can be much more effective in an AMF role if he can get over himself. Fellaini would then be enough to play in there with Carrick and Rooney. If we buy a Modric/Ozil/Fabregas type it's hard too see where Rooney would fit in.
Where was Kagawa yesterday?
I played football with Ross Barkley when he was with the England Under 18s at the AMEX community stadium in Brighton the day before there game and the two clearly outstanding players were Ross Barkley and Larnell Cole, topossibly see them together is a really exciting prospect
OFor the last time, Ozil can't play in central midfield. FFS!
Dan
Wow one good game and now he's the best thing since sliced bread, I suppose you bang the drum for Nani too.
You do realise that he only score one, yes one goal last year! That's a shocking return, so how do you base your theory exactly?
Chico actually looks a lot better with RVP, I can't wait to have him back in the team and hope he gets a lot more games
Melwing28
I think we looked most dangerous when we had Welbeck, Wazza and RvP on at the same time. Welbeck's movement is great and he's a good runner but doesn't have the ability like Rooney to make a great first touch pass up field like he did for RvP to lead to his second goal, then his assist for Welbeck was perfectly weighted and timed I think some people overlooked that or took it for granted.
Ozwald
Personal opinion is that Welbeck is not currently good enough to be a first team player. I think it would do him the world of good to go out on loan for a season if I am honest.
I would like to see Kagawa played in his favoured position just behind RVP dependant on tactics or Hernandez up alongside RVP.
Rooney has blown it for me and although he is still a top player I would like him out of the club.
Not going to speculate as who I would like as I don't have an input at the club.
DaveH
United we stand?. rio and vidic were
Immense yesterday I don't know why you think otherwise
United we stand, the centre of our defence was solid. Everything that came into the box was dealt with.
Michu's movement? When were his chances? I can remember one occasion when Rio and Jones did not communicate Michu's
position, that's it.
Dan, Welbeck is streets behind Rooney, no question. I was merely suggesting that he could be more suited to the furthest forward role under Moyes' system. Rooney, however, is way ahead of him in terms of technical ability and capability to shape a game; would love to see him take a game by the scruff of its neck in a 2 man midfield, wishful thinking. Also, it's obvious that Ozil cannot play in central midfield, we'll still get people insisting he can though!
Red Man, same as I said to Dan, Welbeck is nowhere near Rooney. On Modric/Fabregas, we cannot have players who are not available.
That is a bit like saying I don't want Baines because Cole is better, or something of that sort? Our central midfield allowed Swansea to have the ball because we were not going to out play them and sat pretty deep when the team was defending, with Carrick dropping in sometimes as almost a third centre back, agree on that.
Melwing, that's ridiculous. I've liked Welbeck for a long time, but recognise his goal tally must improve if he is to make it as a United centre forward. However, what more do you want than 2 goals in one game so far? Is it inconceivable that he has improved over the break? Most people will agree Nani is deadly on his day, but can also have games like against Chelsea in the cup
last year; shocking.
Oz, would love to see that with Rooney being the more advanced player in a two man midfield, don't see it happening
any time soon though. Completely agree with everything you've said.
Original poster.
12.24
Rooney assisted two goals. He was dangerous kept the ball but you can see he wants out.
A lot of you being harsh on welbeck it is too early to say he's better than rooney but it could be he's breakthrough year this year his pace and clever running is a real asset to the front line adds more penetration. And gets defenders on the back foot. Stupid mistake for there goal though.
Browred
Original poster
Your observation is shocking and easily satisfied!
Yes he got two goals well done, but that doesn't change a player, it's called consistency. Would you seriously partner him in big games with RVP? Highly doubtful.
Chico is a far better choice than him and plays great with RVP.
Kagawa playing behind worked brilliantly last year and is far more technically better than Welbeck.
Even Moyes knows Welbeck is on borrowed time hence challenging him to proof his worth this year.
If he scores 10-15 goals this year then I'd consider keeping him.
Melwing28
I said a few months back (after the madrid game) that welbeck is not a utd striker and would be better (for him) played in an attacking midfield role where he can run in behind the defence, even when the ball does not come to him it still creates space, I would sell rooney and get a direct left winger as it would lead to more chances being created, and with rvp and chicarito up front, those chances will be converted.
i can not see anything that rooney brings to the team that kagawa wouldn't also, yes rooney pulled out a good pass for the goal but would kagawa not have seen the same pass? rooney's attitude was awful, and he was responsible for a lot of attacks breaking down either with poor control or passing (and running) backwards, killing any quick play. welbeck is not as good a player as rooney granted, but he puts in the effort and at least tries to move the ball forward.
i would like to see kagawa behind the striker with welbeck running into the box (maybe from the wing if needed/ swapping with kagawa so harder to pick up) with carrick anchoring the midfield and valencia and lw providing width, again stretching their defence.
I think some of you are forgetting about how am experience it is still pretty limited and it has been in different positions. Give the lad a break. He isn't a natural finisher but that comes with experience but he does have everything else to his game. He is big, quick, strong and rarely loses the ball. I'm sure the goalscoring is something that will come with time, even if he isn't the most prolific he gives our attack an d added edge!
Dan H
He actually loses the ball too much Dan H, hence the goal they scored started from Welbeck stupidly giving the ball away. Welbeck will come good, but it will take a while and this is a good start. I wouldn't expect this to be a regular occurrence for him. Rooney and RVP could be one of the best partnerships ever seen IMO and I'm not overhyping. They compliment eachother perfectly if Rooney was willing to play behind RVP as a 10. Combine Rooneys explosiveness, passing, vision and of course goals with RVPs hold up and link up play, finishing and just genuine class then they could dominate for years. Both are among the best in the world at what they do in the areas I talked about above. The problem is Rooney wants to be the main man. If RVP and Rooney played like they could together, our wingers started firing and we brought in someone for the 2 man midfield like Fab or Modric then we'd be even better than our 07/08 team IMO.
Dan