Manchester United Rumours Archive July 20 2012

20 Jul 2012 22:34:31
Why don't we play hard ball with San paulo and tell them to take our offer or walk away. I work in banking and I can tell you there is NO money in Spain or Italy and there won't be for a few years. Also man city and Chelsea are in serious difficulties with FFP. And UEFA are going to implement these rules a lot more than people think. Madrid Barcelona and the 2 Milans have no money so united should say there's our offer take it or leave it.

The FFP will only put fear into City and Chelsea if they use a big stick to back up the rules, ie elimination from CL...and that won't happen for fear of the relevent clubs challenging UEFA in the courts. IMO.

J - Stand

I agree, but the only thing is that their director (I think, could be the manager) has said that they'd rather keep the player rather than having a few extra quid in the bank, although I do think what they are asking for for an unproven player is extortionate, as is what I think we'll be willing to pay.

Jake F

Sao Paulo don't need to sell, so if we say we'll walk away then they'd say ok.

RedDevil19

If we want the best we have to come to terms and pay the money otherwise just like,

Ozil
Nasri
Silva
Villa

ETC

can't be moaning about asking prices just pay up! if it's going to win you trophys it's worth it.

City pai 35 million for a striker who scored them the winning goal to take the title.

MUFC1990

Sao Paulo are currently looking for a new sponsor - so letting their best player go before securing one is a big risk...

T0MB0Z

Yes you are indeed a banker ! Maybe you can throw in your call centre headset to sweeten the deal :)

It's all about July 31st. After that they lose 10% of Lucas's contract. The Sao paolo board will try and get every last dollar/euro/pound out of the buyer before that day. If it goes into August then he's not moving. KG

Irregardless of whether you're a banker or not you'll know Spain and Italy have no money....why didn't you put Greece in that!? Anyway, Real and Barca won't spend big as they can't be bank rolled by their governments anymore ha! United are trying to get big names to increase the off field revenues to clear the Glazer debt.

If we are hagling over a couple of mil, sell bebe get him off the payroll, and bring in the talent!

20 Jul 2012 18:37:45
coventry have signed Reece Brown on a season long loan

20 Jul 2012 18:03:40
so fergy has confirmed that united have made a bid for rvp.

no mention of lucas tho
jred

This is a strange one and it's confusing a few journalists at the moment. They cannot figure out if the manager did this because he is trying to keep the attention away from other deals, because he is confident he has got his man or because he wants to be seen as being overly active in the market. Definitely a bewildering one this one.

It's almost like the player has said he will agree in principle and the manager is going to show that the club can compete with City. What do you think jred?

Sydney!

We will defiantly be signing Rvp. I think it will take 23 million or 16 and berba. Anybody who says we hope this guy goes to city isn't watching the same premier league as me. Awesome forward and would score a hatful alongside Rooney .
Parkie

No, we won't sign RVP, Fergie is using him as a smokescreen for Lucas Moura, yes we have had a bid rejected from arsenal, but he will not return with a second, we can't afford to keep buying players at 20m who are 29 and injury prone, he will have bid 10m and Arsenal will have laughed at it, and that is that. I believe there is something going on with Moura though, and we are close to agreeing a deal with Sao Paolo for him, if he isn't a united player within a week then I don't believe we will get him, but RVP is Juventus bound IMO.

Jake F

I would say that we are shifting our gaze from Lucas in an attempt to make it easier to sign Lucas away from the media lime light. I certainly don't see us paying too much for van Persie.

But also, why would be comment on Lucas? He's hardly going to come out and list all of our targets is he?

RedDevil19

Syd
I haven't got a clue take away age and price and just look at it from a football sense and I would have to wonder were his going to play.
I do think we need a top class striker but were does that leave Kagawa .
Was there maybe some clues from Wednesday and fergy is going to look to play that kind of formation
Could be more to it but if I'm
Honest its not one I saw coming
Jred

Fergie only confirmed what Arsenal already leaked. He did say he would prefer to conduct his business away from the media lights so any other deals in the pipe line may still be very much on.

Sounds to me a bit like a bluff, may be wrong just a hunch. I wouldn't be surprised if we have put in a cheeky low bid but I would be surprised if he ended up at OT

Gav

20 Jul 2012 17:20:15
Sao Paulo demanding £50M for Lucas Moura? For a 19years old player £50M is way too much I guess Fergies gonna break a bank or find an alternative. I honestly don't want to spend that kind I money instead buy a couple of quality signings

*Reddy

Where does this £50m come from. Sao Paulo President says their striker wont be sold for no less than that amount. He also stated that a bit more will land Lucas Moura. I think £34m just over 40m Euros will clinch it.
Why? Because more than half of the committee thinks the last bid is more than enough! The player wants to leave and lastly there is no other club going to come in with a larger bid, especially, once he plays for Brazil against GB or even later in the London Olympics and shows his skills!

It was the daily fail... The chairman said he had a valuation of 50 million but he was willing to go lower

fearny

Yup its some made up BS by daily fail and reports from sources in brazil have told that sao paulo wants atleast 33 or 34 m pounds for lucas a bit more than man utd 2nd bid of 29.8 m pounds

He said neymar was worth 50 mil and Lucas was only player behind him...

The paper said that they regard Lucas as the second most expensive player in Brazil after Neymar who they think is worth 50m. He then went on to say Utd bid 27M and a bit more money will seal it......But its in the mail so it means nothing!

20 Jul 2012 16:18:43
Away kit has officially be unveiled on the site.

Just ordered it myself. I seen a lot of comments and it seems as though not many of our fans like this kit... They say it's too much like the England shirt?

I'm a fan of this shirt. I actually prefer this one than the home one to be honest!

This one is definitely better than the last 2 years third kit that was white. But I do like it. I think nike usually do a solid job when it comes to our kits.

Daniel

20 Jul 2012 15:00:24
Why is it the end for Nani if we sign Moura? Moura has openly said that he wants to play in a more central position, like a CAM or a CF.

Jake F

I agree i hope nani stays he would come back to haunt us if we did

weststandupper

I completely agree, on his day he is one of the best in his position, he just needs to improve his consistency.

Jake F

Unless he is asking to match Rooney as top earner - just give him what he want, he will prove he is worth it in the next few years

20 Jul 2012 14:03:24
I dont get people saying Moura isnt worth it he has already got the talent of Ronaldo and Messi at taking players on and going alone but he hasnt got the passing and teamwork side of his game as he is a quite a selfish player if he can improve that side of his game he will be the player of his generation with the likes of thorgan hazard, James Rodriguez and Neymar

He is worth it, I just cant see him joining us.

Rubbish...he is nowhere near the quality / talent of Ronaldo and Messi or even Neymar.

Simmo

Simmo have you seen him and did i say he had the talent i said hes on there level at taking players on which just means hes got rapid feet sily pace and amazing skill he isnt as good at passing or finishing and he is selfish

The guy is just a Brazilian theo walcott

Ronaldo was not the player he is today when he joined us. He was raw potential and had a lot of development to undergo. He was also a bargain at 12.5m even being a young prospect. It took him 2 years before we really started to see a world class player dont forget.

There are a lot of videos on youtube on moura, especially this summer. I would try and find the ones that arent trying to hype him as much, and try to show the general contributions that he makes to games. The guy does have real ability, and appears able to consistenly beat 3-4 players, even against the stronger opposition (allbeit at a lower level.) I think the fact he has been capped so many times in a brazil team containing numerous high quality attackers confirms the brazilian's rate him very highly.

I would say 30m is about right for the player in todays market, taking into account the club will want a bit of a premium for a big talent. Beyond that is rather greedy and we can only hope sao paulo have the sense to realise it.

redbark

Only clips on Youtube which is where everybody else seems to be judging him.
Your words were i quote "he has already got the talent of Ronaldo and Messi" when he hasn't. He is nowhere near Ronaldo or Messi in anyway shape or form.

Simmo

Simmo u make me laugh he said at taking players on and u miss quote him to try and make your point it's funny u made me laugh then

Dio

Yes he seriously is in the aspect of the game of taking players on which is what i said dont quote me if your going to cut it short... Lucas Moura is of that quality while doing that but like i said he lacks in other parts of his game theres more than one aspect to a footballer than taking them on

Dio

Ok my friend...would you honestly say that this 19 yr old kid is better at taking people on than Ronaldo or Messi?
I certainly don't think so....he's probably looked at Youtube and got all excited.

Simmo

I think anybody that has only seen him on youtube is in no position to say how talented he is at all. I have seen him for Brazil three times, and although talented have been underwhelmed to be honest but that doesnt give me the right to say how good he is, you need to watch a player several times and mor eimportantly for club rather than just country, that is why scouts exist ;) But giving my 3 game opinion he is super talented in terms of abilty but also has no tactical knowledge or team work instilled and currently is a head down and beat the player type. Im sure he can be moulded into a fantastic player but wow £30m is a hell of a lot of money if it is true, but then of course Utd Scouts will have watched him several times to have decided how good he potentially is and not sat at a pc on youtube either
Invisible STuey

Simmo, u seem to have me confused with the original poster. Not the same person.

Redbark

- Youtube is obviously not going to allow you to judge a player, but you can get an idea of the players ability level. Watching some of the more consistent videos, iv seen enough to tell me that at least the raw potential is there. The question I suppose ultimately, is what makes one player turn out like a Quaresma, and one player turn out like a Ronaldo? These two were neck and neck to replace figo on portugals right wing when they were around 18, - even after ronaldo had joined Man United btw, with quaresma appearing to have every bit the technical ability that ronaldo had. Strangely though one has gone on to break all kinds of records, while the other now turns out at bestikas. I suppose thats often the case with young players and its hard to discern who will come out a star. The thing is, 30m is still not 60m, and thats both the discount and the risk u get when your after one of the worlds best young players, - as apose to one of the worlds best players. They may end up playing for bestikas, or they may double in value. In honesty though, how else are Man United going to get players of the very highest level nowadays. Its not easy to buy them without sensational sums of money. Either u have to be very lucky with a youth product, or you need to sign someone probably in the region of 20-30m, and hope they develop to their full potential.

If u want to get at least a half decent idea from youtube I would ignore most of whats there from 2011. The more recent games in the last 6 months is where moura's reputation has started to grow, in which time he seems to have become physically tougher and has grown too. Quite a few bids for him in january were around 10m, and 3 or 4 bids for him since then in this transfer window have doubled to 20m and upwards, so the opinions in the market seem to reflect an improvement in this time. If u have a look at some of the 2012 videos that show a lot of his dribbles throughout games, and not just some 12 year old's idea of what looks cool, i think its possible to see the dribbling threat is quite consistent, and often results in goals or attempts on goals. Hard to see completely because no one has put together the "minutes" videos that shows all the players touches in games, but there are some that show a more continued look at moura.

redbark

Simmo no I dnt think he is as gd as those two there properly 2 of the best this world has ever seen he has potential but properly will not bypass or be on there level I did agree with Wat u said but ur miss quote made me laugh ever though of working for the daily mail lol

Dio

20 Jul 2012 13:06:35
Ed know anything about Lucas Moura or a new bid being submitted? Still think we should hold out at 41mill euros and buy him. {Ed002's Note - As previously stated: The feeling from someone in Brazil is that he thinks that Manchester United will probably not make any further offer for Lucas Moura as they feel they have already bid to the best value of the player. He cannot be certain there will be no higher bids but he can be certain that if there are then the club would be paying over the odds for the player.

Furthermore, the Ribeiro discussions in Colorado which he was involved with surrounded a part ownership deal that would see the player move to Italy for two years at some point and then a full buy out of his rights resulting in either a sale or perhaps a move to the part owning club. It was considered to be impractical.}

Totally agree with you, we should get the next bid in now and get the deal done, after he's been on t.v tonight against great britain other teams will come in and outbid us, and we all know who {man s***y}, especially if van persie opts for utd instead of them. come on fergie get ur cheque book out or we lose a very special player of the future.

Is the GBR v Brazil game on english broadcasted TV? Would like to watch Moura, instead of relying on grainy youtube videos, to see if he is worth the effort?

Sambo {Ed002's Note - If he gets a cameo - I doubt he will start.}

Cameo will do, just want to see what he is like rather than listen to people getting excited by the price tag! Also watching Neymar is always enjoyable

Sambo

Brazil coach gave the team out a couple of days ago lucas wasnt in the starting11.
jred

20 Jul 2012 11:51:47
With the director of Sao palio regrading
moura saying "united would have to put up a little more"

Surley one more bid with another 5-8 million added would seal the deal!

If we were way of there valuation surly they would have said we havnt matched anywhere near there price wanted.

Weather fergie swallows his pride and bids again, which I think he will just like he did with kagawa.

I expect this deal to be wrapt up before Olympics, cause if excells in that it's only going to put his price up

MUFC1990

He

£5-8 million? Thank God you are not our negotiator!

GDS

Yeah added on 2 the original bid of 29 million

So between 34-38 million

Clearly you can't read.

MUFC1990

I think he can read mate, he's just saying an extra £5-8 million is quite alot

Fans like you will easily bankrupt the club

NoName

Well we were going to pay 35 for hazard. What's an extra 3 for moura?

Cause 3 million is going to backcrupt us!

You want the best u pay the money, but hey I'll be happy with marquee signing instead of world class!

MUFC1990

I think if Lucas goes ahead and drops the part in his contract that sees him end up with 20% of any transfer fee then obviously we wouldn't need to bid any higher as Sao Paulo would receive the sum they're looking for. I heard a bit about that but not sure if it's developed any further..

Ozwald

20 Jul 2012 11:45:55
To me it looks as though there are 5 deals on the go, probably 1 or 2 of which will actually happen:

Van Persie - Apparently we have bid for him, but I would think that we would be the last club that Wenger would sell too. He may be forced to sell to us in the end, but nevertheless, I'd rather us pursue other targets as I don't see how we would have a balanced side and fit Kagawa also into the starting 11. This would obviously mean the end for Berbatov, if it is not the end for Berbatov already.

Baines - From what I know the deal is still on going, its just Kenwright messing us around with the transfer fee. All personal terms have allegidly been agreed. We want him for between £10-£12 million but Everton at present are holding out for £15-£18 million. As Sydney says, the money is vital for Everton so they can't play hardball for too much longer. If Everton do hold out, then we will move for someone cheaper like Izaguirre.

Lucas Moura - By all accounts, it looks as though Sao Paulo are taking the piss. We keep upping bids and they keep saying a little more. It looks as though they will hold out for around 40 Million Euros. I think we do really want Moura and we may sacrifice Baines so that we can afford Moura and perhaps a central midfielder. The down side with Moura is that it is a huge risk for the fee and we will probably lose Nani which is a big down side as regardless of his criticism, he is still a great player for us.

Sahin - I'm not saying this story has lefs, but I very much hope that there is some truth in it. He is just what we need, deep lying, good in the tackle and can pick any pass. He and Kagawa would be excellent at keeping the ball, picking the passes, add Carrick/Cleverly/Scholes to that and we have an excellent selection of midfielders. We could possibly buy him out right, but a loan move doesn't sound too bad at all if we could get a fixed fee to buy at the end of it. This way there is no risk involved as buying him would be a bit risky due to his injury problems. We wouldn't want another Hargreaves. If he could stay fit during the loan, then we would be confident in our minds that he would stay fit if we bought him.

Witsel - This is the other deal that we are looking at I think. He is a big strong powerful lad, like Toure by many accounts. But he doesn't have the passing range of Sahin. He would still be a very effective buy, he and Sahin would both be around the £20 million mark, however a loan for Sahin sounds even better as I have said.

Out of those 5, a maximum of two would come in. Obviously Moura and van Persie are attractive proposals, but they don't fit the necessities of the squad. For me, I would try to get Sahin on a loan deal with a buy option and then also sign Baines for no more than £12 million. This may even leave us with the money to still buy Lucas Moura (but hopefully not at the expense of Nani).

A summer of Kagawa, Powell, Sahin (Loan) and Baines doesn't sound half bad for combined initial fee's of approximatly £25 - £30 million.

RedDevil19

I agree that if we want to tidy ourselves up, its the central midfield that needs sorting out. Our older players have great distribution, but when out of possession, they get cut through easily. The lack of pace, agility and closing down ability has made us prone to counter attacks, aswell as players of high quality, who's turning and first touch creates space.

Teams that play a possession game, still have players who are very agile and able to move back into position if the other side counters/is attacking in numbers. If we want to move towards being a side that controls possession, we will still have to be robust physically in central midfield ourselves. Busquets is a good example. Great passing ability and has the agility/speed necessary to fill his midfield duties.

The transfer strategy of signing moura and van persie is an alternative. Feel as though the risk could be worth it though. Attacking wise, it could allow us to move way past our present potential and close to, or possibly past the sides that seem to be pulling away from us. We would have to gamble that kagawa and cleverly can provide that increased energy in midfield + possibly anderson if he cares to get fit. Then carrick and scholes can be used when we are against less threatening sides, or when we have 5 man midfields.

'redbark!

Nice post red devil 19

ddd

20 Jul 2012 10:38:26
A few Sahin to Utd rumours floating about this morning. Would love this to be true!

20 Jul 2012 10:31:08
Manchester United football club have made an official bid for Robin Van Persie

Mr

Heard some of these rumours. Is there any place/source that confirms this apart from the "fergie's friend says" rumours going round right now?

To be honest I cant see man city allowing us to get hold of van persie, - even if he prefers a move to man u.

Judging by their interest in arsenal players in the past, and van persies ability, they would probably be intent on outbidding us every time we made a move. I doubt we will go beyond 25m. Arsenal will sell to the highest bidder, so that doesnt leave us in a great position.

Unless man city have a change of heart i dont see this one happening. Van persie would have to call for a "man u or nothing" deal. Comon van persie!

'redbark!

'rebark!... Firstly we won't pay above 18m or so for a player his age, and if RVP's heart is set on a move to us then it won't be a highest bidder case, as Arsenal can accept city's bid, but that doesn't mean he will agree terms on a contract with them, so we could get him for cheaper than city providing that he actually doe want to join us rather than them.
I don't think we will sign him, mainly because he has a bad injury record, and his price tag for a player of his age is far too much, even with his exceptional talent.

Jake F

20 Jul 2012 10:28:00
is it true that an official bid was made for RVP

20 Jul 2012 10:17:25
on the BBC website -

Man Unite, Man City and Juventus have lodged bids for Robin Van Persie!

20 Jul 2012 09:30:33
Manchester United target Sahin as frustrations grow over Lucas Moura pursuit


The Old Trafford club are keeping tabs on the Real Madrid man, who would be available for around 25.5 million this summer after an injury-hit season with the Spanish champions

I am sorry.... 25.5m for a player that does not play in first 11 and has had injury concerns for the past season...

can not see it.

Real Madrid paid 10 million Euros for him in the summer of 2011.

He played a total of 10 games for them the whole of last season. I know he was injuried for a lot of the season......but is he suddenly worth 25.5 million......think that could be daylight robbery.......

20 Jul 2012 09:02:16
Arsenal being linked with llorente this morning. Fergie should sign him and Martinez fom Bilbao to strengthen the spine of the team. Younger than van Persie and the all important resale crap the glazers want these days. What do you reckon?

We wouldn't be able to sell Llorente on as we would want him through his prime years and nobody wants to pay good money for a 30+ year old.

1redarmy

Llorente is 27, RVP is 28 (almost 29) and RVP is probably 5 times the better player.

20 Jul 2012 01:52:16
hope we dont sign RVP,class player but he is injury prone and 28 nearly 29.it would be a waste about 25-30mill and demanding huge wages,were as we could spend that on lewandowski who would be great with kagawa,or spend the money on a CDM..

20 Jul 2012 00:54:38
In response to those who say Nani will go if Moura comes in - why? For all his inconsistency, he's still capable of winning games on his own sometimes.

If someone has to go, I'd have Young out instead - wasn't that fussed about him coming in the first place, and a decent squad player at best. Slightly more consistent than Nani (but not by much), but can't hit the heights that Nani can on his day.

Nani, Kagawa and Moura running at defences from all angles and at pace, with Toni in the mix too...I'm almost feeling slightly aroused :)

StevieK

Thats' just bloody stupid.

Nani can't operate on the left

I am not Ashley Youngs biggest fan but we are lacking a player that can operate on the left. Kagawa can do but he is liekly to be playing behind Rooney

Nani can't operate on the left?
Really?
He plays most of his games for us on the left and two seasons ago he was player of the year for us.
Last year he got a good return of goals and assists.
In what way can't Nani operate on the left?

I must be going to the wrong games. I have only ever seen him have one decent game on the left. Hence, why he now only plays if Valencia is absent on the right. "He did not get player of the year on the left wing!

19 Jul 2012 22:26:38
Ed002; I read a couple of days ago about out interest in Witsel. Do you know how far this has gone and if the interest is very recent? Have we just recently made an enquiry or...?

Thanks,

rpc {Ed002's Note - Interested clubs will be told that any deal needs to be completed soon as there is a problem replacing players. I think Manchester United will take a look at him again.}

Would love to see Witsel at the club
B