Manchester United Rumours Archive October 21 2011

21 Oct 2011 13:09:17
Syd/Ed's, I am concerned and confused about this situation with Pogba? Have I missed something apart from the rubbish in the papers? I was very excited that we had another youngster coming through that was HIGHLY rated but now contract running down/new agent/old agent/arsenal sniffing about stories have got me worried? Can you just clarify what you know regarding the lad and more importantly if you think we will keep him?

Thanks,

Ports {Ed001's Note - sorry it took a while to reply, I was trying to do some digging, it does seem his current agent is the man behind the talk of a move. But, it is hard to be sure, it could easily be his agent-to-be setting up a deal while shifting the blame. It does seem there is truth in the talk though, either way, it appears he is looking for first team football, he is willing to leave to get it.}

Ok ED001 do you expect him to leave or sign a new contract? Whats most likely in your view? Cheers {Ed001's Note - right now, leaving looks most likely, purely because he is not getting games.}

Ed001 - Some media believe it's Gael Mahe (his current agent) who is trying to get him a move before his contract as Pogba's agent expires. This however contradicts what Ed002 has said who is pretty clued up on most things French. Pogba himself has said he is happy and is willing to go out on loan to the Championship, is says he's happy and why wouldn't he be being on the fringes of the first team? Personally I believe it could be a master plan to get himself an improved United deal and to try and force more first team games. He is currently on £1k-£1.5k a week and Welbeck is on £13k a week which would be difficult for Pogba to turn down, especially when he could have it doubled like Smalling did after just one year due to appearances.

Ed001, do you believe he would get more appearances at Marseille, a midfield occupied by Valbuena, Mbia, Diarra, Cheyrou, Gonzalez? Surely he knows more than anyone that he is a year away from becoming a United regular, hardly surprising with the lack of quality midfielders that we have.

Sydney! {Ed001's Note - I would have thought he would be better staying put, but players aren't usually very bright and agents in their ears makes it difficult to convince them at times. A lot will depend on who is interested in him. He needs games first and foremost or it is difficult to persuade him his future is at the club.}

Well if he's that good, and given the games coming up then surely he will get a chance.

Bloody agents, all want shooting!

Ed001 - He played against Leeds and he is due to play against Aldershot on Tuesday. What more could an 18 year old expect? Personally I cannot see him wanting to leave, I think it's got more to do with his current agent wanting a piece of the pie if he is sold.

Also he is under contract until June 2013, he will only leave if he is allowed to leave.

Sydney! {Ed001's Note - the agent is a big part of things Syd, they always are, but young players are under a lot of pressure to do things. He will have a lot of people telling him different things, and certain eminent football figures giving him advice which can turn the head of a young lad. It is not always about money, there are the examples of Rossi and Pique to consider, while there aren't a lot of recent youth successes for United to point to. You say how much can an 18 year old expect, well he can expect the club not to go out and spend big money on a player who could potentially block his way into the side in Jones. Especially such a young player, it must cast a shadow of doubt in his mind.}

Ed001 - I agree about the Agents and popular figures in the game being instrumental in young player's decision making, but Jones will not have any bearing on this, there is plenty of room for both players in the side. Jones can play RB, CB & DM. Pogba can play DM & CM, there is plenty of ways to accommodate both players. Pogba is training with the first team, he is getting games and he is in the CL squad. I genuinely believe it is just a contractual issue, I think he wants more first team opportunities and probably a decent wage and this mischief making is a bargaining tool to try and get him the best deal. I am not going to read too much into this right now, people start to jump on the bandwagon saying he wants to leave when there is little evidence of it, then two weeks later he signs a five year deal. Ed002 suspects he will sign a new deal and go out on loan, that sounds better to me mate. Fingers crossed ;)

Sydney! {Ed001's Note - I think that is the most likely scenario myself, but, like I said, there are the examples of Rossi and Pique that are being pointed out to him. I hope he stays myself, I much prefer seeing youth teamers filling a side than bought talent.}

Ed001 - But to be fair SAF was happy to sell Rossi and Pique as there was no room in the squad for them. They raised £11.6m and because they were produced by the club it was pure profit. That went towards buying Nani, Anderson, Hargreaves & Tevez on loan.

It's different with Pogba, SAF will do everything in his power to keep him and if he is under contract til 2013, then SAF has time on his side to convince him to stay. I would say he is favourite to stay for that very reason. He will play against Aldershot on Tuesday, then perhaps a place on the bench against Galati?

Sydney! {Ed001's Note - actually I take issue with your suggestion that either was produced by United, next you will be telling me Arsenal are responsible for producing Walcott and Oxlade-Chamberlain or Liverpool for producing Sterling! Both were brought to the club as gems from other youth systems, then given a quick polish and sold on. Time has shown that to be a mistake, both are better than the players that they could have replaced. But they are tiny errors, and for every one Fergie has got wrong, he has got a lot more right, you just have to hope he has this one correct as well. I certainly think Pogba will get his chance, he could easily replace Anderson in the side, he just has to make sure he performs when he does get an opportunity.}

Ed001 - I completely agree with what you said about producing talent. I have had many arguments with Arsenal fans about them saying they produced Walcott, yet we never produced Ronaldo. We never produced Ronny and they never produced Walcott. What I meant was they went through the academy and graduated therefore when they were sold it was 100% profit because they are worth nothing as intangible assets. On paper they are worth nothing, but players you buy have an asset value, albeit much lower than their fees.

If United sold Pogba in four years time for £30m, they would make that in profit, but if we sold Rooney for £30m we would make £30m in cash, but lose so much in asset value too. Does that make sense mate?

Sydney! {Ed001's Note - I knew what you meant, but I had to point it out or look like I was being inconsistent. I always pick up on it on the Arsenal site, couldn't then ignore it on a different site. Yes it does make sense, weird how accounts work.}

Ed001 - Although I agree with you that Rossi & Pique were not produced by our club, but where do you draw the line? Cleverley was brought in from Bradford academy at 12, I would class him as a product of our club, so where do we draw the line? What age?

Sydney! {Ed001's Note - 12 is certainly young enough to make major changes to a player's game, once they get past 14 or 15, and have had a number of years in somebody else's academy, they have to be considered a product of the club you get them from, in my opinion.}

I tend to agree to a degree, Cleverley joins United at 12, Giggs 13, Beckham 15, Evans 16. But all graduated via the United academy. Surely graduating via the academy is an important factor, as to Cesc joining Arsenal at 16 but going straight into the senior side without Arsenal being able to put any sort of stamp on him. Same with Ronaldo joining when just one year older than Jonny Evans, but Evans graduated, Ronny went straight into the senior squad. Pogba joined United at 16, same age as Evans, yet we class Evans as a product of United, but not Pogba? WHY? There is a thin line when we think about it Ed.

Sydney! {Ed001's Note - surely Beckham is more of a product of a club he spends his formative years at, than he is a United product? Same with Evans, I have never classed him as a United youth product, joining at 16 you are buying a player someone else has produced and then refining him. It doesn't matter if they join the academy or the first team, they are still produced elsewhere.}

Ed001 - But Beckham has always been described as a product of Manchester United, so I guess it comes down to opinion really. My opinion is very similar to yours, but couldn't Pogba be described as a product of Le Havre & Manchester United? If Sterling has a successful career at Liverpool, couldn't he be described as a product of QPR & Liverpool? Anyway I am off to bed now, take care mate.

Sydney! {Ed001's Note - I guess people will always describe them that way, most people don't even know that Beckham and Sterling were brought into the academy at a later age anyway. I suppose at the end of the day it makes little real difference. Night mate.}

Cant blame agent, when players like carrick is getting more game time i dont blame him for kicking up a fuss. he is 10 times better then carrick and carrick is getting more games then him anyone would be upset

Sydney!

In answer to your question why? IMO it makes a difference in peoples minds who the player supports etc. David Beckham may not have grown up in Manchester and come through as a child but he was a massive supporter so has Manchester United in his blood. This new agreement, I suspect, will see a massive drop in PL clubs developing their own players now anyway.

TK-Red

Selling our youth once again....we need a midfielder as the shower of s**t we have in the first team need showing the exit door. Selling him makes no sense at all

21 Oct 2011 01:30:04
Hey Ed, do you think United will pursue Barkley in the near future or wait for him to develop more?

YankSAW {Ed001's Note - more than likely get him in the summer, leaving him runs the risk of his development stalling like Rodwell's did.}

Thanks for your insight Ed, always a class act.

YankSAW {Ed001's Note - Barkley is their crown jewel, as a kid he looked better than Rooney did at the same ages, handled right and he will be a star, a huge star.}

Ed001 - Do you know if Chelsea's interest is real? If we get into a auction with them (or City), who is going to win? Any idea how much Everton are looking for? Thanks.

J Bones. {Ed001's Note - it's real, but Fergie has the edge in any deal with Everton due to his close relationship with Moyes. I expect the price to be at least 25m or Barkley to stay where he is.}

Thanks Ed001. Your comment on Rodwell's development stalling was interesting as we often send young players out to gain experience. Do you think Everton have 'mishandled' Rodwell or did he reach a peak and is not going to be the player everyone expected. If the former, isn't this a bad reflection on the abilities of Moyes, who some people mention as a successor to SAF?

J Bones. {Ed001's Note - there are two problems that stalled Rodwell's development, both connected. The first is that he suffered injury problems, that reduced his playing time and slowed his development. The second being the cause of those injuries was that he was training with the first team, training like a fully grown and formed adult. There were no allowances made for his age and the training at Everton is tough, as Moyes likes his players to be able to work hard. If you look at all the youngsters brought through at Everton, this is a repeating trend. James Vaughan, a top class youth striker, breaks into the side and suffers constant injuries and ends up not being the star everyone thought he would be. Victor Anichebe, looked like he was going to be a powerhouse striker, suffered injuries and never made any progress whatsoever. Until Moyes learns how to manage young players properly, I think he would be a disaster as manager of a side that expects to win trophies. Especially if he sticks to his terrible defensive-minded tactics, against Chelsea he took off a striker and brought on a midfielder when they were losing!}

Thanks Ed001.

True Ed both Vaughan and Anichebe looked very promising at one point.

Have we ended our interest in Rodwell? {Ed001's Note - no, he is still being considered.}

Sort of using this season as a review then? See how he does and if the injuries clear up?

Or just waiting for Everton to get a bit more skint?