Manchester United Rumours Archive October 23 2012

23 Oct 2012 21:52:13
I think we have learnt that the diamond requires pace. Something that, without our wide players, we don't have. I initially liked the diamond, but having my doubts now. Nani I thought was rubbish again, he is meant to have pace but he just slowed everything down and gave the ball away.

In fairness though, that would have been 3-0 with a proper defence. Whatever the boss says, there is no game that will suit Carrick playing at centre back.

Fresh!

Nani played well but he could play amazing and people such as you will still call for his head!

Walrus

What did Nani do that was good? If the basis of playing well is not doing anything glaringly bad then its a pretty saf state of affairs.

Fresh!

When nani came on i thought he was going to change it for us, but then he quickly slipped back into old habits after 5 mins. He is the single most frustrating player I have ever known.

Sanshine

Get a grip Fresh lad, the diamond wasn't the problem, it was the low tempo from the start. Without a high tempo we will struggle. Tempo has nothing to do with formation.

Sydney!

The only thing Nani done well was his little dink pass through to rvp who should of scored apart from that Nani just run into players and constantly lost the ball

Sydney

I usually agree with most of your posts but i tend to agree with Flesh.

I believe due to the signings of Kagawa and RVP we have tried to force the diamond formation - no doubt our attack is lethal at the minute - we are playing some nice stuff, with Rooney and RVP are on top form.
The problem with me lies with the defensive side to the diamond - Raf and Evra/Buttner are left exposed due to no protection as we do not have wingers and lets admit with wingers they both get exposed due to their attacking. Our defensive players are not good enough to adapt to the style of play we are currently playing - you need a great defence and strong midfield which we don't have and that is why when teams charge at us we cant counter it, too many times last night you saw rooney charging back to cover cleverley and Fletcher.

When we get our full defence back - Vidic, Smalling and Jones no doubt we will be a tighter unit but i like a traditional 442 with wingers but thats just me lol

Braga are a decent team - knocked the ball round well and scored two nice goals but Man Utd should be controlling these matches particularly at home from start to finish - i miss the days were i sit and watch are controlled solid victory - too many sloppy goals conceded this season and we cant keep giving teams head starts - do that on sunday and i'm sorry there will be no way back.

Giants14

Giants, we need a defensive midfielder at the base of the diamond so that the right-sided CB can help Rafael and the left-sided CB can help out Evra/Buttner. A defensive midfielder would join the defence whilst the CB doubled up with the fullback. Playing the diamond with Jones or another DM is what is missing.

Sydney!

How is Carrick getting in the team?..... he is the one constant every time we struggle. He was at fault for both goals...ball watching for the 1st one & he got skinned for the second one...Get rid ...NOW!!

Bullseye50

Sydney, you are probably right i dont think Fletcher, Carrick and Cleverley are strong enough for that position - are we waiting on jones returning to play there?

Even before this we were screaming for a DM, a Makelele, Essien type i think is needed- someone to break up the play and not advance over the half way line.

I was discussing the game last night with my mate he brought up a decent point - were is the voice in our team? At half time we saw Roy Keane on ITV discussing the problems united have had at the back - Who in our team is getting them going? I would hate to be a defender now if Keane was still captain, he wouldnt let that sort of play stand.
Evra is captain but ya never see him barking orders, Rooney has calmed down in recent years and doesnt seem to bring the same passion as he did when he had a nasty streak in him.
Other senior players are the same - Carrick? Rio?
At the sidelines you rarely see Fergie out barking orders which frustrates me when we are behind and he's sitting comfortably in a heated chair, i understand he's 70 and lets phelan do most of it not but even phelan sits with a dumbfounded look on his face.
They doesnt seem to be anyone at this moment in time who takes control of team like Keane used to do, any thoughts on this? or is it just me :)

Giants14

Giants, it's a valid point and I agree. Jones is too young to bark out orders at the moment and can you really bring someone in to bark out orders? I don't think you can, the players already here would be thinking who does he think he is. We need a leader but we do not have one. I would like to see Jones get a long stint as a defensive midfielder, but a sitting DM, not a b2b DM. He did a good job there for Blackburn and could do that with us with the right players around him. Once he is first choice and playing well he could then start barking out orders and making that captaincy his own in the future.

Sydney!

Cleverly seemed to be dishing out the orders last night...

Future captain material?

Sydney, yes it is all about tempo. But Cleverly and Kagawa aren't quick enough. Nani was abissmal when he came on, but it felt as though we were more dangerous as we had better width. We need to play with at least one winger in my opinion so a 4-2-3-1 is better with one winger to give width as I think we looked a bit one dimensional last night. And remember, 2 of the 3 goals were headers from good crosses - e.g. From wide positions!

Fresh!

I like how people are still going with the "Nani constantly lost the ball" rubbish. He gave away possession twice.

TK-Red

Fresh, but if we played with wingers they would have doubled up on them to deal with them like so many teams are doing nowadays. Instead we played a diamond and Nani and Cleverley would drift out and that is where we got the space from. If Cleverley started the game as a winger in a 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 Braga would have set their team up to deal with him and he probably wouldn't have had the space to get his crosses in. The beauty of having Cleverley in the diamond is that he can drift out from time to time and he can put in a good cross. Kagawa done the same for the first Hernandez goal. Silva, Nasri, Hazard and Mata do the same. They are not being deployed as wingers, but they will drop out there during games.

Sydney!

Sydney, if people double up on the wingers that leaves more spaces in the middle. Using more of the pitch and having people double mark people leaves space for others. When we are down one wing, it leaves space on the other side, that is why having a good passer of the ball is invaluable - this is why Scholes is still effective due to his ability to swap the ball.

Fresh!

"Kagawa isn't quick enough" what complete rubbish. Tylsley said this on commentary during the match, borderline offensive disregard for any fact checking, or basic awareness of the player's attributes. Kagawa is a very pacy player. The problem during the diamond phase of play was our tempo, and the defensive fragilities not allowing Rafael and Buttner to stretch the play. In narrow diamond like that you need the full-backs to open up the pitch, but Evans and Carrick were not organised enough to allow them this. We also did not press high enough for the system to fully succeed.

That said we still finished the first half 2-2, or would have if we hadn't had an onside goal wrongfully disallowed. The problems stem from a lack of organisation at the back, which hampers the diamond and slows the whole play down.

Agree Syd. Our defensive improvements are reliant on having a proper DM like Jones or even Ando. Ando did a good job in that role against Barca during pre season if anyone saw.

Dan

23 Oct 2012 21:39:40
Hernandez has done fantastic tonight :)

19-20 MUFC

23 Oct 2012 21:19:09
And thats for all the haters who all want to sell a striker who with the right service and can score a goal anytime!!

Sulei

23 Oct 2012 20:33:27
any1 see kagawa's movement for the disallowed goal even though he was onside this is what he does best , no point havin him play deep. i wud of had 2 defensive mids and two attacking mids rooney and kagawa !

sulei

23 Oct 2012 20:26:36
chica's movement is super , think he might pinch a couple and get us out the deep stuff tonight
jred

I have said this for a long time. What I like about him most is that he will stay up front and play off the shoulder of the defender, kinda like what Owen used to do years ago. It's far too annoying seeing our striker heading to the wings thus leaving nobody in the center.

melwing28

Yer it moves the defenders about and makes space for other players. Jred

23 Oct 2012 20:08:55
The diamond doesn't work for us! We don't have the players and why won't fergie give some young players a try! Fletcher is done Carrick is not a centre back he never will be just play wooten! Buttner has been atrocious so far!

Caolán.

You say give the kids a try then lambast Butner?
Poor start but we are getting better
The diamond wasn't the reason for the goals - the reason for the goals is on the bench....
Let's support the players who are playing
Pedroknight

Well said pedroknight, Fletcher is just making his way back to fitness, buttner needs our support not negativity. so many fickle fans

snakey

Buttner has been atraucious? he is an exciting youg player finding his feet in the premier lge, he has been nothing but exciting when on the ball, great buy by fergie.

23 Oct 2012 19:41:16
Rooney captain! Great to see

Caolán.

23 Oct 2012 13:40:18
i get the frustration with the perceived lack of chances for the younger players but if they are not considered ready then they are not ready. The coaches and manager see them every day. We see them in reserve games at a poor standard. Who is better placed to judge. Players need to be patient. Cleverley and welbeck both served time on loan showing that they can do it at a good level. Also i think the manager is trying not to play them too young and burning them out like owen, everton and arsenal. Whats better short term game and burnt out injury prone players or long term and world class players?

That is all true and well but when is it time to play them

pogba as an example has already played and scored in a top level serial A game..

players want to play not be told they will if they wait for giggs and scholes to reach an age where they can not walk ....

fergie of old would have given some of these lads the opportunity to shine... now unfortunately he does not.. and it will be the clubs loss as these gifted individuals will leave..

FULL STOp

Oxred

I agree with you oxred.

What happened to the manager who gave youth a chance? luke chadwick, david bellion, chris eagles etc etc all played first team games to test there ability. now were losing players even before they have been looked at properly in first team games ie pogba, morrison, fryers, kiko etc.

All these players are asking for is to be given an opportunity but as it stands they wont be given any game time and instead they get fustrated and end up leaving.

Can we realy blame them??

If i was pogba and i was looking at the weakest midfield in the top 6 of scholes, carrick, giggs etc and i was smashing the reserves to pieces i would be angry that i wasnt being given a chance. Same could be said about fryers looking at evra!

G.N.G

And wotton watching carrick tonight!

G.N.G