Manchester United Rumours Archive August 24 2012
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24 Aug 2012 22:13:47
Does a loan buy count as a signing? Just thinking of fergie's little smirk
Yellowcar
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Exactly what I was thinking, hmmm
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Yes it counts as a signing. You should be happy with our signings and squad.
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I dont think it does because he will be gone next year so he isnt signed
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24 Aug 2012 21:55:06
Considering he is injured, and SAF was grinning when he said no more signings will be made this summer, could this possibly mean that we have already agreed a fee for Herrera, he just needs his medical, and personal terms, which could be sorted out in January? which is when their current season ends, much like the Lucas Moura transfer to PSG.
Jake F
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24 Aug 2012 21:29:24
Hector Herrera will stay at his club until January, there's an agreement with Man Utd for them to buy him
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24 Aug 2012 19:17:12
In an amazing show of solidarity and as thanks for the support we gave them. Lots of the Fulham supporters will be wearing Green and Gold at tomorrows game. It is a great gesture but it makes me a little sad that supporters from other clubs are more aware of the CANCER that is the Glazers than some of the muppets who have attached themselves to our club and only look at short term success and do not look at the long term damage that is being created. Fergie is gone in 2 years time how old will the squad be by then?. Saying all that lets get behind the boys tomorrow as they are all wearing the shirt and whatever I think of certain players or owners I will always support the shirt. I AM KLOOT
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The Glazers can only be a good thing for united, they invested to make money, thats the only thing they're interested in, and the only way they can do that is by winning trophies. Yes they have given us a lot of debt, but we can pay it off, we are the richest and biggest club in the world, just goes to show when you're 700m in debt, and we are now only 300-400m. I personally dont like them, but the only way they can get what they want is to give us what we want... trophies. This is also proved by the overhaul of players signed this summer.
Jake F
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Totally agree KLOOT, It is very worrying after SAF leaves but I am pretty sure he will have a few tricks up his sleeve, maybe he has a successor already after him? Who knows.. I am sticking by my prediction, Pep Guardiola left Barcelona because Sir Alex asked him to look after the club after he left.
-JakeW
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I AM KLOOT - what about what comes after the Glazers? When they have taken all they can get out of us, and sell us for as much as they can get, what comes next? Whats to stop another company doing the same thing?
The Glazers are businessmen, they saw an opportunity, took it and will make a s**tload of money out of us.
But whats to stop it happening again, and again, and again. Now is the time for all supporters to come together and put a plan in place for the future.
People throughout history fought against oppressors, but when they finally got the oppressors out what happened? They had nobody to fight against but themselves because they had no idea how to manage themselves. Will we know how to manage ourselves when the time comes? I hope so!
J Bones.
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Ah the aul G&G brigade dusting off their scarfs from 2010/11. Fail to see how wearing a different coloured scarf will convince the Glazers to move on myself....each to their own I guess.
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Our old team???? what are you on about Klooty boy. We have Giggs Scholes Carrick Vidic Rio and Evra as the only members of our squad over 30? and out of them Vidic Carrick and Evra are only just over 30 and have a season or two left in them. Rio Scholes and Giggs will play a lesser part this year and will all leave next year. In two years time only Fletcher and RVP out of the rest of our current squad will be over 30. We'll have DDG, Lindegaard, Amos, Rafael, Fabio, Smalling, Jones, Evans, Buttner, Blackett, M.Keane, Cleverley, Anderson, Tunnercliffe, Petrucci, Powell, Valencia, Young, Nani, Lingard, Cole, Kagawa, Welbeck, Rooney, Hernandez, Henriquez and W.Keane will all be under 30. Thats 27 players and thats if we don't sign anyone else in the next two years. I think aslong as we get the right manager then we'll be fine. I'm much more worried about whether we'll have the right coaching staff/management team than whether we'll have the right players.
Shappy
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The Glazers will move on and we will still be here... Like death and taxes that's a certainty.
Bring on a Barca like ownership deal or at the worst a rich sugar daddy who likes to throw his money around (Abramovich anyone?!). But please no more Yanks or ball tossing Micheal Knightons!
Red Snapper
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MAN UTD will always be big business to the biggest investors.They are a good investment because of the fans,who spend good money on tickets, jerseys and all the other memorabilia ,it does'nt matter who owns the club, the glazers or the next owners we will probably hate aswell i love MAN UTD because of the football always have and that will never change, no matter who is the owner,UTD will always be winning titles because of the great history , BELIEVE
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You will have to stop being nasty to the poor old glazer family kloot,they have been nothing but good for us and you will upset there loyal chocolate starfish lickers on here.
johndenton
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No football club are a good investment compared to regular businesses. Someone once said "if you want to make a small fortune in football, you better start off with a big one". The return on investment for football clubs is way below anything a normal investor would look for. The Glazers will make their money when they sell. The only hope for united is that the next owners don't buy using debt to fund the acquisition.
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My only concern right now is that we find a better number 2 than Mike Phelan.
Then in 2 years we get the right man to replace Fergie
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I support the club an I support football I know sweet FA about the glazers..... Tats where I stand
CAIN
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Kloot the squad would be 2 years older mate :) , I love you doom an gloom all time it actually makes me laugh glad all united fans ain't like you an they are happy to support a great club an btw why do u have to always always say the club will be this an that I didn't no you could see the future which looks bright for us an u concern your self about matters that one is out of your reach 2 u have zero say an insight an 3 y dnt u try an focus on football which is y u soport the greatest team in history an just leave the rest to faith
Dio
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Change the record for pitys sake
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24 Aug 2012 16:47:56
apparently herrera was due to sign this week but the injury he picked up at the olympics meant he would have failed the medical. Instead the transfer is on hold until january whilst he recovers his fitness. So that explains fergies little grin. Mort
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24 Aug 2012 16:30:12
Heard that Buttner can play CM. Maybe thats why SAf has declared no more signings.
diego
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24 Aug 2012 16:10:02
Haven't any of you thought that SAF has said no more coming in or out, to stop the papers making up stupid rumors like Kaka? 7 Days my fellow United supporters, 7 days.
-JakeW
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And y would he give a rubbish what papers make up?
Give a logic pls
Rodio17
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I don't think he concerns himself too much with that. I am sure that over the years he has realised that it simply comes with the territory.
He does however seem to like spinning them in circles, so who knows...
MDJ
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24 Aug 2012 15:34:35
So Bayern and now City have both apparently pulled out of the Martinez transfer. Surely with the money that would of gone towards Hazard or Moura we could sort out a deal for him? I reckon we could knock the price down a little bit, around 38 Million Euros I fancy. He'd instantly improve the squad, even more than RVP has.
RedDevil19
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Martinez was a greater priority than RVP for sure. And for Moura for that matter.
Halesini
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I get the impression that if Bayern and City aren't interested, the price being quoted is most likely astronomical.
MDJ
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It's not that simple.. He might have a buyout clause but once that is met.. There is a 43% tax aswell which brings it closer 60million euro mark.. You could try to get round this by the player playin his buyout clause but once a cheque was cashed into Martinez account the tax man would be taking a huge amount of it.. So its not as straight forward for Martinez or he would already be at another club by now'
JonnyBlackBoots {Ed002's Note - I think you need to read up a bit about who the transfer money goes to.}
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I know who the transfer money goes to, I'm saying to try to get past the huge amount of income tax and VAT, if the deal is done between the player and the club and he pays his buy out clause it would be a way around this. I've been told now though that there is some law in FIFA Article and that part 17.2 comes into action which states that the buyout clause must be paid by the player and his new club together and there is no obligation on the new club and respective player to pay taxation money.
JonnyBlackBoots
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I thought the issue with a transfer for Martinez was that Bilbao wanted him to buy his contract out as not to lose face with the fans?
Ultimately Martinez can't leave Bilbao unless they receive a certain amount of money, but with them only being able to field Basque players they are reluctant to sell.
Ed002 has the player expressed any particular club he would want to play for or does he want to keep the fans on side
?
Thanks
Adz {Ed002's Note - He can't buy his contract out. Martinez wants to move to Bayern Munich and will likely do so.}
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24 Aug 2012 15:10:46
We currently have 25 players over the age of 21 in the squad so unless players leave we do not have any space for another player. The club need to move players on, it's proving difficult. There are players like Bebe, Kiko, Anderson, Berbatov & Nani who can leave, but there needs to be interest and an acceptable offer made for them. You cannot shift players if no one wants them or are willing to pay what they are worth. You cannot expect us to sign anyone else without selling a few first. I get the feeling whether we sign someone like Witsel depends on whether or not we can sell Nani. Then again if anyone seen the manager's press conference they will see that he was grinning somewhat cheekily when he said there will be no more signings. We'll see, but I think there will still be some more movement yet with ins and outs.
Sydney!
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Now thats what i call a logical thinking.. Well said syd
Rodio17
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Nani out - Rodriguez in
Berbatov out - Martinez in
Yes I know there not the same positions before anyone points out the obvious! They's be my dream signings from a squad perspective now but cant see it happening.
Halesini
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Well if we hadn't played silly buggers with Berba he would be off both clearing a spot and taking a hefty sum off the wages.
Jono
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Sydney, do you really think Nani or Anderson are likely to be sold?
As I've said before I think that SAF would prefer to hold onto them this season, and the only way I can see either of them being sold now is if we get an improbably high offer for them.
Don't get them wrong, much though I like them, especially Ando, I'm not blind to their failure to kick on and deliver on their early potential on a consistent basis.Still though, I don't see anyway offering 15-20m+ for Ando or 25-30m+ for Nani, and I don't see SAF selling them for less. Not yet anyway.
On a side note, I'm not sure Bebe's going either. From the snatches of preseason I saw, he looked like he might be ready to get some chances.
Thorne
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24 Aug 2012 14:28:00
''I won't believe it until he is pictured next to Sir Alex holding the United shirt'' is a phrase used quite a lot on here. Well similarly, I am not going to believe there is no more signings until the window shuts.
APC
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24 Aug 2012 14:06:33
Has Fergie said no more signings? I can't find it anywhere on the site! Haha bloody hell you would think the world had ended.
Maybe Fergie knows what he is doing? I would have loved a new midfielder but we haven't got one. Remember Fergie said at the van Persie press conference there would be no more signings, we have signed 2 players in a week since then!
If we don't get a midfielder then we don't and we move on with a very strong squad, lets just hope he hasn't made a mistake.
Anyway, big game tomorrow, bored of the negative posts on here they do my head in.
Can't wait to get down to Old Trafford tomorrow, take me home, united road, to the place that I belong!
GDS
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Still seems very odd that they appear not to have dealt with the one thing that everyone seems to agree on: the need for a CM. Why's that? Not willing to pay the money? Confidence in young players coming through? Who knows?
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We know for sure there is interest in Witsel and i'm sure in a lot of other players like Herrera as well. Mind games again.
Dan
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I couldn't agree more. Support the club!
MDJ
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Thats wrong, he said exclusively to MUTV that he would make one more signing if that certain player became available, we just have to assume that player was not available
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24 Aug 2012 12:34:56
SAF has confirmed that there will be no more players coming in this summer. Henriquez is our last buy in this window.
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24 Aug 2012 09:39:44
i read a post yesterday that had been put on a couple of days a go that said barca dominated/bossed the midfield in the 2 cl games we lost to them over the last few seasons, then we were bossed in the middle by man city last season. So a period of about 3/5 seasons, but we still havent brought anyone of note to help strengthen the middle a player with bite,power presence, then i ask myself why? value in the market, not the answer. No one suitable for the position, nope not the answer. I just cant figure out why fergie hasnt brought a player that will battle away in midfield and add a bit of steale we all as fans know players that would help us and we all as fans know of players that are for sale and so must fergie.
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Maybe he is so stubborn because he would have to admit his mistakes or make public that there was NO money available or that he was personally renumerated based on the money he "didnt" spend.
Or maybe all of the above. Guess what, looks like he is going to do the same again and end up trophyless at the end of this season too.
It is highly probably
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Maybe he sees Carrick as his play breaker and will move Rooney further back to midfield to be the ''creator'' so to speak? Fergie tried this last year and with RVP, little Pea, Wellbeck etc, up front should cover itself ? Can United really justify another 25mill with Carrick and Anderson still there.... not to mention Cleverly, Giggs and Scholesy
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Pogba was the long term solution and we all know how that panned out......i reckon this time next year he will be an absolute monster of a player!
i blame fergie i really do....the lad just wanted a chance / playing time....he felt he was ready for the challenge, and having the likes of a right back and an over the hill ryan giggs start in the middle against blackburn or whoever it was must have been the final straw for him.......
if we had of had him in our first team this year i would have been more than happy
Such a shame it really is
Robbo
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I guess were looking for the next paul scholes and roy kean and so far we can't find one.so we can get roy out of retirement. its very hard to think or even to say. with united midfielder let forget about winning champions league for now.even to win back premier league.i think chelsea shows they want this more than anybody.so its chelsea and mancity this year. unless miracle happen to united.we start the league the way we finished with injuries,now its central defence jones,smalling,evans and injury prone Ferdinand. next month would be midfielder to and anderson,we have darren has already been sidelined i don't know till when? FS i was looking forward for this season but i lost my hope. hope sir alex and players will prove me wrong.just hope
ferdcoast
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Exactly mate. For 3 years, he's been telling he's fully aware of our CM problems.
Last season he was forced to get Scholesy out of retirement as a stop-gap. We got embarassed by far inferior teams, such as Basle, mainly due to our paper-thin, lacklustre CM.
Yet we've still not signed anyone there. STILL. Something weird must be going on behind the scenes, there is no reason that SAF would say they are looking at that area.......and not sign anyone for a third year.
The players are out there. SAF has shown an interest in some of them. So why have we not signed any of them?
Budget blown on RVP? I think so.
RED_SKY
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So Sir Alex has said we are not buying anyone else. It has got to the stage wit our midfield that I actually think fergie does not know what to do with it. We got the creativity in Kagawa but none of our midfielders named above are strong enough or mobile enough to play like a trditional CM. He must not see it, but it will be the difference between success or not. Great goalkeeper and defense, fantastic forwards and one big hole in the middle for the 5th season running. I'm depressed!
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Barca dominated us in midfield with WHO as their Roy Keane type midfielder? No one because they do not need one because they do not give the ball away too often and they track back if they do. We need players who are comfortable on the ball, can make space, can retain possession and can cover back. That is why we bought Kagawa, RVP, Powell and wanted Moura. If we can retain possession higher up the field and have players to close down possession and space then why would we need a Roy Keane? Although Roy Keane was a hell of a lot more than just a ball winner.
JR-Red
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Jr-red BARCA JUST SIGNED SONG SO THEY NOW A SO CALLED ROY KEANE unfortunately we are not and dont think we will ever be as good at ball retention as Barca. And we play in a far more physically demanding league than barca do. We need to build a team to our strengths not our weakneses. That is why we keep getting dominated for Example city have toure. everton fellaini. chelsea essien/mikel. Arse did have song.newcastle tiote/cabaye and there are even teams such as stoke who have a big player in the middle in huddlestone who is an underated player oh and fulham dembele.so who will we turn to SCHOLES this is not the solution. Im pulling my hair out in frustration.
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People are panicking too much. Its true that the lack of a new midfielder is disappointing, but in fairness between anderson and cleverly we now have the 2 midfielders that started last season (in blistering fashion by the way) back, after injury filled seasons.
Man utd play with one tempo dictating midfielder, and one high energy type. Thats a tactical template designed to our formation. Its not a random thing where the midfielders just happen to have those styles. A lot of people have been wandering about cleverly and whether he can replace scholes. I dont think those people have realised that Clevery's role is not meant to be like scholes's. Cleverly is in fact a direct replacement for darren fletcher, and his game is indeed very similar. The fact that he plays "safe" passes, is not due to a "lacking" on his part, - its because its his function in the team and its a role required by the formation.
Bear that in mind and you might be able to appreciate the situation differently. Theres the passing midfielder role which isnt too badly filled. In scholes, carrick and anderson we do have some depth there. And theres the more functional or economic midfielder, in which we have a very good player in clevery. Its this role that i wander about in terms of squad depth though. I get the feeling that ferguson must think either darren fletcher, or turncliff(?) are ready to come in and cover. I dont think the club would have hesitated to spend 8-10m on a back up player here, the way we just have with this chilean striker and the new left back, - so, i think its likely fergie believes he already has a solution. We will have to wait and find out i suppose.
All in all, I would say im dissapointed we didnt sign a world class midfielder for around 30m, but not that we have missed out on players at the 15 to 20m level. I dont think a player like that would really improve us as much as people imagine. You have to think sometimes about what our own players would be worth, if they played for some of the feeder clubs around europe. How much would a player like cleverly be worth if he played for tottenham, or newcastle? Players like tiote are worth in excess of 20m nowadays. Worse yet he could play for benfica, or porto and be worth 30m.
For me had we signed someone like modric, that would have seriously upgraded the midfield, but can u really blame ferguson, gill, or even the vampirical glazers, for not purchasing someone like that? They all have 40m plus price tags on them. People have been going on about players like moutinho. Have any of you ever watched the "minutes" videos of him on youtube? - the ones that show all the players touches in a game? Iv watched 7 or 8 on this guy, and i can tell you he is another michael carrick. Very good passer, but very poor mobility. He isnt worth more than the 15m level carrick has been at throughout his Man United career. I guarantee you if u watch these videos on him, youll notice it. - This is a player who is being auctioned at 30m anyway.
Anyway, my 2 cents, - we arent in as bad shape as is thought. We should sit back, and either let someone develop in midfield, or make a move when a worthwhile oppertunity opens. I take encouragement from the van persie transfer. An illustration that the owners will, despite their shortcomings, spend around 25m if a high quality player becomes available at decent value. Thats enough to get a good quality midfielder if someone cracks and finally realizes they need to sell their players at a reasonable price before the player lets their contract run down. Until then i think we will be more stable than people realise unless we suffer another injury crisis.
'redbark
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The problem is that everyone keeps talking about Yaya, (he is a one off monster), Fellaini, (he dominated us as attacking midfielder, he hasnt stood out as DM, we dont need him as an AM), Martinez, (not interested in Utd at the minute). Other DM's for top clubs include, Mikel (rubbish and turned us down anyway), Barry (never rated him, just English), De Jong (not for long, past it), Cabaye, (just like Carrick, Scholes, even Anderson, just had a great season, but isnt much better than what we have if at all), Huddlestone, Sandro, Parker, (all not good enough), Song (Barcelona), Lucas, Spearing, Adam, (just put those in for a laugh!). The italians arent interested and really it's just de Rossi that would be good enough, but he hardly is a giant. The best one I can think of is Tiote, but he is African and Ferguson doesnt like that with the Internationals. Basically there is limited options from major teams, German League, French and Dutch are all massive gambles aside from Schweinsteiger, but again he is more like what we have just an upgrade, hardly a monster like Yaya. I just think Fergie is trying to do as JR-Red said and win games with the ball and hope for a bit of luck when we come up against teams that can outplay us or outbeast us in the midfield. The players arent there to go man to man so it's down to tactics and we are too old school now unfortunately, still works against most teams, but we will always being tossing a coin against our main challengers I think, until the youth develop over the next couple of years.
Sween
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Sween what a stupid post who wants to rely on luck and tactics that work against most teams.
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I'm not saying we should I'm saying that because there isnt the value there and Fergie is clearly not a tactical wizzard (in this day and age) it is a case of having to. Look at what happened against City last season, we were meant to be going to outdo them tactically and we didnt even manage a shot on target. Fergie is a great man-manager and a quality analyst but I think he has always lacked the ability to implement the tactics he wants the players to carry out/doesnt specify enough. He has been the greatest manager that ever lived, but times have moved on now and the game is far more studios than what it was 10 years ago, look at all the young educated managers coming through, they dont have his experience of man-management skills yet but I think they are already a step above on the tactical side. It's not a critiscm it is just a fact in my opinion. It's like asking a 70 year old to operate a computer as quick as a 30 year old, it just doesnt happen - and most 70 year olds stick to what they know and trust, same across all occupations and general attitude to life.
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24 Aug 2012 09:32:44
Everton in for Oviedo... Could this mean Baines is still a possibility?! Surely not for us now we've signed this Dutch guy?
DodgyBanter
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There will be no Baines, perhaps Moyes wants cover for him and may want to sue Baines on the left hand side of midfield.
RedDevil19
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