Manchester United Rumours Archive July 31 2012

 

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31 Jul 2012 23:00:45
Got a feeling that United have a already agreed a fee for Lucas. After tomorrow Lucas will recieve 30% of the transfer fee and with Sao Paulo already playing hard with the transfer fee i can't imagine United would let this happen. This could be De Gea all over be anounced after the Olympics hopefully.

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I thought this as well but Sao Paolo have offered him a new contract.

Red Joe

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Possible, we'll only know when the club announce it. But will also need Modric or Moutinho and if poss RVP. Then we can call ourselves a top team again.
Hope Glazers will give Fergie the money, success at the club generates more money, so that should appeal to them !!

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Manchester utd will never sign lucas!!

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31 Jul 2012 22:07:47
Does anyone know which club is truly leading the race to sign RvP ? ive read a few reports saying that United were favorites but lately ive also read that juventus are favorites.. anyone know if its true ? {Ed007's Note - I'd go with the Juventus link for now.}

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BBC sport claims juventus have cooled interest. Which I think would make us favorites

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I've heard from inside sources that real madrid will be putting there offer through which rvp will be excepting

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31 Jul 2012 22:48:20
So Salvio has gone to Benfica. This means Gaitan is more freed up for a move. Could see an offer being made soon..

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Gaitan is a united player allready trust me g red

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31 Jul 2012 21:46:17
This is a rumours site, not an economics lesson, Jesus can we just start posting rumours again.

Parkie

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Shame that you think this is merely an economics story. Brutal truth is if the Glazers get this wrong, you won't be talking about what big players we will be buying this year or next. They plan to take half the funds raised to put in their personal bank accounts. Bigger story than any rumour.

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Please tell us one then.

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Anyone who owns anything (from a business perspective) would expect to have return on their money. The Glazers have hardly taken anything out over the last few years (I'm fairly sure they've taken nothing). I don't particularly like them but sweet jesus, they're entitled a cut of the profits of a club that they've doubled the commercial revenue of. They don't support United, no more than Usmanov supports Arsenal, but no one complains about his dividend, or any other chairman for that matter. Why on earth would they have bought the most successful and profitable media-sport team in the world and expect no return on it? The reason they diversified is because they saw more money in us than in their failing malls in America, right? If they see money in us they'll make sure we remain profitable, generally that means us winning by any means necessary. They are ruthless, and although they don't feel the need to explain everything to us fans (so our feelings don't get hurt, and that), they have the clubs best interests at heart because they want a return on their money. In terms of owners, apart from having a fan owned club, I believe they've been fantastic. And we had the option to be a fan owned club when we were a plc and we obviously (be it individually, rather than collectively) decided against it; meaning you could have brought shares if you wanted to, but you didn't did you?

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Amen to that, lets concentrate on the football, the finances will be what they will be. We will not have any influence over it

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31 Jul 2012 20:28:32
Do you think we will keep the big screens up at OT?

1redarmy

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31 Jul 2012 20:45:33
Manchester United's controversial flotation in New York continues to provoke an angry reaction from supporters after it emerged that senior employees at Old Trafford stand to benefit from a share scheme worth up to $320m (£204m).

A highly lucrative "2012 Equity Incentive Award Plan", as it is described in the Initial Public Offering (IPO) prospectus released on Monday, has raised questions among some United fans as to whether Sir Alex Ferguson, the manager, and David Gill, the chief executive, will stand to personally profit from the Glazers' decision to list the club on the New York stock exchange.

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also saw this in another article.

Michael Moritz, a Cardiff-born Silicon Valley investor who is also a Manchester United fan and critic of the Glazers, said: "The anti-takeover provisions further protect the Glazers. It is the financial equivalent of armed robbers leaving the scene of a crime and throwing nails on the road to stop pursuers.A pound of potatoes will be a better investment than the purchase of shares in Manchester United's stock offering. The only people who will be better off with this offering are the Glazers"

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I saw the thing about the employee share stake too: "Sixteen million shares worth $288m will form an equity plan, the purpose of which is to attract, retain and motivate selected employees … through the granting of share-based and cash-based compensation awards". I'm not certain whether its a good thing or not. On the one hand, some of these shares could, I suppose, go to players and signing targets in order to attract them or keep them at the club. That's a normal way for a big company to reward key employees. That might make it easier for us to attract talent. On the other hand I suppose a part of these share awards will go to Gill and SAF, which would really tie them in to the Glazers and might mean they care a little less about the performance of the team on the pitch as long as the financial results continued to meet targets.

OLE4EVRA

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Remember - "He who pays the piper, calls the tune"

The 'Double Glazers" are businessmen, so don't surprised if they try to make profit. I dare say if they were making a loss no many would chip in to help them.

LIVE & LET LIVE

Ps. If there were to be beneficiaries at a high level..... Bloody good luck to them.

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This whole dirty issue leaves a bad taste in the mouth shame SAF will be remembered in the same way as the Glazer clan

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31 Jul 2012 20:37:12
I still can't help but feel that we have a chance of Modric. SAF is still a huge fan and Modric wants to leave Spurs, he has kicked up enough fuss about it. If Madrid have moved on to Witsel and they manage to sign him then Spurs have an unhappy player on their hands and no suitors for him. This may mean that we could get him for closer to our £25 million evaluation of him which would be incredibly good business for us. He is still the man to replace Scholes in my mind and still should be our number target still I feel.

RedDevil19

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Agree he should be our number 1 target but we will still never get him for 25m. 35m maybe but even that is debatable. I would pay the 35m but because i think he would be worth it, but then again I do not know the financial situation of the club....

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RD19

I agree he should be 1st choice if there is any chance at all. Though I doubt there is TBH : (

I certainly dont see Levy entertaining any bids below £30m (at least) but I think he's worth around that. He may not have 'resale value' but that's only really important if we're looking to sell him on, which we wouldnt be. At 26 who's to say he couldn't play at the top til he's in his mid thirties? As Scholes and Pirlo have managed in the same position. He could take over Scholes' role for the next 8 years (barring injury) quite realistically

Let's hope theres a slim chance

Gav

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31 Jul 2012 20:33:58
A couple of points about events.

The sponsorship, suddenly almost out of nowhere a new shirt sponsor arrives. There has been no rumour to my knowledge about us putting it out to tender. Six weeks into a deal with Chevrolet suddenly they are so close we do a shirt deal. Was it grabbed quickly to bring good news for the IPO which is suddenly confirmed the next day. It is worth noting it is an American company doing the sponsorship would this help with a share sale in the US? and it was all done very quickly.

The IPO. originally the Glazers were not taking any money then suddenly they are. It would be only speculation but the alleged family rift over the manchester franchise debt situation may suddenly have been calmed by this changed position.

In both cases it appears to have been done quickly and taking a step back it has to be said there appears an element of desperation in the situation.

Red Man

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Either desperation or striking whilst the iron is hot, or a mixture of both. I agree things did seem to change quickly and the sponsorship deal certainly seemed to play a part. It's a real let down that all the proceeds are not going to pay the known debt, as we were promised initially

Let's just hope there is enough money in the bank for a couple more transfers as well as a willingness to spend it. Not sure if that will have been changed by yesterday's news in any way though

Gav

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Red Man

They're under no obligation to put the shirt sponsorship deal "out to tender". They would be perfectly entitled to invite selected bidders and handle the matter privately for something like that.

DarkLard08

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Darklard

They are under no obligation to put it out to tender but use some logic if we created competition do you not think we might have got a better deal?

Have we rushed into a deal when we could have got better?

Red Man

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31 Jul 2012 19:43:33
Amazing watch. I think its been posted here once before already but even if it is, worth a watch again.
Devil for Life

That's Why I Love Manchester United!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VosPdk0WZ1A

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Football, bloody hell!

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31 Jul 2012 19:54:03
can someone tell me what selling shares will actually do for the buyer? like if they bought a share of the club for the 16 or 20 dollars what would they get from it? and what would it mean?

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Nothing, they only way they benefit is if the share price rises, they have no voting rights, no say in how the club is run, total control is still down to the Glazers

Langers

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My understanding is that the category A shares that are on offer will give the holder 1/10th of the voting rights of an ordinary share....so effectively no influence at all.
Also no dividends are due to these category A shares, so no financial gain annually either.
An increase in share price is the only way that a category A shareholder might gain financially.
I'm open to correction on that.

RedMonkey

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I am buying shares ... I am a Manchester United fan like my father and grandfather. Im American born and they are from Manchester and we have always supported the club. This is a present for them. I will have no say, no dividend and I know the money will go to the Glazers. Maybe a little will pay off the debt, but I know in my heart the Glazers will continue the club to ensure its profitable and successful. Yes I would like the club to buy the best players when they are available, but I rather have the club in the hands of United fans. Tampa Bay Buccs have collapsed due to the purchase of Manchester United. We sold 9 star players (its like selling Rio, Roy Keane, Ashley Young, Vidic and the like). The Glazers know that this is a business and it has to survive in order for them to benefit. Maybe one day things will change for the Red Devils just like the Buccs. Good luck to Manchester United, SAF and the team for the new season from Neal in Sarasota Fl

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31 Jul 2012 19:52:29
It seems to have escaped peoples attention but with viable reasons but good luck to Amos at Hull, I think he will flourish and prove his worth.
sparky

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31 Jul 2012 17:56:45
Any truth on this Berbatov to QPR rumours?

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Sparky has Denied reports!
According to TV reports
- Newton Heath

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31 Jul 2012 17:33:44
I might be well off here but wouldn't a deal for Moura need to be done today? His % of contract ownership goes up I. August 1st doesn't it? I'm probably wrong but that's the impression I've been given. Anyone got a better idea than me?
Matt

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Some of us have a feeling that the deal may have been done, just waiting for the Olympics to end which could be a while with Brazil faves.

1redarmy

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I was about to post something similar, on the 1st of August the % he owns goes up from 20% to 30% potentially adding 4/5m to any fee in order to make sure Sao Paulo still get the amount they want. He could give up his percentage to push though a deal but that will be must for any deal.to happen now it would seem.

Shappy

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I had that thought too. Thought it was interesting that his parents flew into England today.
Matt

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I like the optimism 1redarmy; but chelski have announced oscar, so why would united not announce moura? It cannot be 'taking pressure of the lad' as football is driven by media now and it would be perfect for the club to announce the next best thing from the best team around is coming. I dont think moura will come; hoping that saf has a couple up his sleeve though

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I have a feeling a deal has not been done judging by the fact Sao Paulo are wanting to offer him a new contract. I do believe though that he will reduce his % of the transfer to push a move through if a fee can be agreed that way.

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31 Jul 2012 17:10:08
I've just seen a report that Yann M'Villa is close to moving to zenit st petersburg for a value of around £10M, I really like the look of this player as he would add that bit of steel to our midfield which we have missed since Hargreaves got injured and with Fletcher out for the near future, £10M for a player of this quality and still young at 22 this is good value for money. He is a good CDM and distributes the ball well. I thought Javi Martinez would be a high target for us with his availability to play at CB (covering Rio & Vidic until Jones realises his potential) & CDM but Bilbao want £25M and I think Fergie wants to spend that on his other targets.

On to other targets, I hope we get Lucas Moura as I think he is a big talent, and can play anywhere in midfield or support the striker, which may be a similar role to Kagawa but I really don't want to see Lucas move to another team and we regret this in the future when he becomes a top player and I honestly believe we can do with having Lucas & Kagawa in a squad which is going to lose Giggs & Scholes at the end of the season. Come on Fergie stump up the money and get this young Sumba star to OT..

RVP - I think £25M is quite high for a player with 12 months on his contract and at the age of 28 nearly 29 would not be value for money given the circumstance.. I know he has had injury problems but he has proved a quality player in the past two seasons and deserves to leave the Emirates with there empty Trophy cabinet... I would offer £15-17M with add-on's if we win Champions league etc.

Baines - I like Baines but is unsure why we are being held to ransom by Everton, SAF offer the £12M and if they won't accept it move on to another target... There is still a few years left in Patrice so we don't have to be held to ransom for a player which might not be guaranteed a weekly spot in the first team...

£69M for the above 4 players seems like money well spent and strengthens the areas where we had issues with...

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Javi Martinez would cost more like £35million and Yann M'Villa will have major baggage and awful attitude.

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Agree martinez will not go for 25 million if he was he would be our number 1 target without a doubt !!

sparkyred

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Held to ransom over Baines? Are you thick? Everton are the ones being held to ransom. £12m for the best and most consistent LB in England is a disgrace. Of course Everton aren't gonna accept that. It's like some foreign team bidding £10m for Rooney. Just cause Everton are "poor" or can't compete financially with the likes of the "bigger" teams doesn't mean United can take advantage by submitting an offer that's so small. So give your head a wobble.

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31 Jul 2012 16:17:18
Did we ever find out about the other 200 odd mil "paid off" by the Glazers? Was it simply paid off?!

Whistler.

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31 Jul 2012 10:11:11
Ed002, do you think this IPO is the only one they are planning? It's just 10% of the club and they were willing to go to £35% so do you think this is just one of a possible few IPO's? Perhaps they will revisit the Singapore or Hong Kong idea later.

Also in your opinion do you think it's best for the club if the banks underwrite this IPO. Thanks.

Sydney! {Ed002's Note - No. As previously explained it is all to do with getting over 2B GPB value. Nothing else.}

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Perhaps if they get a good valuation they will float another 20% or so of shares. I hope so. I'm not a Glazer hater they have done great things for the club, but, no one can deny the debt payments are prohibitive. With FFP ncoming in then reducing the debt payments should actually give us more financial fire power than Chelsea and City.

Dan

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Surely people only drive up the value of a business/company/brand with a view to a future sale?

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There is some truth in this editorial reponse but it misses the point. What drives value is nothing to do with the IPO. That simply drives visibilty and liquidity. Value is driven by financial results. The quickest way to uplift the enterprize valuation is to win a lot, and to reduce debt.

Future market strategy will also be driven by similar considerations and if and when market cap value increases.

Also it is usual for the investment banks to underwrite such issues and the fee for this deal will come off the top.

If the deal gets away (and the transaction parties are presumably fairly certain from the look of it) then this will be a good deal all-round.

My assessment has always been that this whole exercise is anyway a pthfinder to establish value for a disposal of the entire stake. We shall see.

JS Bach

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Ed002; Do you think by gaining the valuation of over £2bn this could potentially lead to them selling then?

By institutional investors, do you mean Qataris or someone alike?

Thanks,

rpc {Ed002's Note - It could lead to the sale of a further 25%. And I don't mean the Qataris when referring to institutional investors.}

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Ed002, if the IPO is successful and the banks overwrite it, do you think they will float more of the club in future to pay down more of the debt? Thanks.

Sydney! {Ed002's Note - It gives them that option to float more - but it would be on a case-by-case basis what they do with their money. It would say in teh IPO when it happens.}

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30 Jul 2012 20:33:03
hi ed002, if your about is there any more info on witsel? With real madrid now apparently involved, do you still think utd will act on their interest. thanks tom17 {Ed002's Note - The issue with Witsel is the valuation still. It will drag out.}

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Benfica are asking £31 million for Witsel. That's why United are not going for him.

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31 Jul 2012 15:51:03
A fanzine footy mag is mentioning Chicharito.
Sahin & Chicharito switching clubs on loan for a season.

Could be a good move. He'd learn a different way of playing, tactics & so on. He'd get some games from the bench I'm sure.

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Berbatove leaves, Hernandez goes out on loan. So Rooney and Wellbeck as our only recognised forwards. I'm not counting Macheda as i expect him to leave.

Mad Hatter

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Can't see that happening. Especially when SAF has come out today and said he expects big things from Chicha now he is well refreshed.

RedDevil19

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No way should he be switched for the season after a big rest his fully fit and ready too take the first spot bk from welbeck 25 or more goals this season

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31 Jul 2012 12:29:49
G..l.com is claming that Juventus top target is Stefan Jovetic & they are looking to generate funds by selling Reto Ziegler and Felipe Melo before making a firm bid for him. Wondering if they have financial muscle for buying both Jovetic & RVP. As many papers suggesting that they will be bidding 20 mil for RV with 195 K a week after tax salary on offer. Could that mean United have the realistic chance to sign RVP.

Rey619

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Its a Mysterio Rey ; )

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31 Jul 2012 12:25:44
Just moving away from the vermine that are the Glazers. Just wanted to raise a discussion about Lucas Moura. Apparently he is being offered a new deal at Sao Paulo. Considering he has said that he will decide his future after the Olympics, I imagine that this means he has two offers on the table - 1 from Sao Paulo and 1 from us. That seems to make the most sense to me otherwise what decision does he have to make? Its unlikely that Inter are going after him anymore after being close to Ayew, Chelsea are not interested and Madrid can't afford him. The question is, does anyone know of a deal being agreed between ourselves and Sao Paulo as that seems quite likely...

RedDevil19

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31 Jul 2012 10:10:18
Real madrid back in for Lucas moura
Superdecs

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There's no truth in that at all. Sao Paulo are trying to 'revive' Man Utd's interest seeing as it's the 31st of July...

James.

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Bet it turns out that they sign Moura and we land Modric.

Although i'd love someone as exciting as Lucas we already have Kagawa to look forward to. A CM in the form of Modric is essential though..

Ozwald

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31 Jul 2012 00:11:51
A source of mine who is a players agent at MUFC says that you guys are ready to drop interest in moura an challenge RM for modric. I'm a BWFC fan by the way.
OC09

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This would make sense should the rumours that Real Madrid have joined the chase for Lucas Moura be true.

I for one though don't think United will be signing anybody else this summer.

United mess about when it comes to transfers these days. They "um and ah" about the price tags on the players they want or the wages the player wants for joining United and this is why we miss out on real good talent. This time last year it was all about Sneijder & Sanchez. This year I think it's going to be all about Van Persie and Lucas Moura... who I expect us to miss out on again.

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