Manchester United Rumours Archive September 07 2012

07 Sep 2012 16:08:00
Seriously, Percy, you're the only fan who doesn't see the problem Nani is. It's pretty clear that United agreed to sell Nani to Zenit and it was his wage demands that stopped the deal, so clearly United and 99% of fans can see it, except you.

G.A.G.U.S

I think the only problem with Nani is Valencia's form at the back end of last season. It has pretty much guaranteed his place on the right, the same position that Nani is most effective. Although Nani started his career on the left, it's not his most comfortable position anymore.

TK-Red

As I have always said, just watch Wayne Rooney every time Nani does a little dance on the ball before losing it and when he puts in an awful cross (he does this about 9 times out of 10) - he can't stand playing with Nani!!

When your strikers look angered by the guys who are meant to supply them with the ball, you know something is up!

MDJ

MDJ is right and its also a point that has been raised on here before
jred

Rooney is in no position to talk. He is hardly perfect on the pitch himself.

TK-Red

MDJ,
Yeah i would agree with you a little there but i also remember how van Nistlerooy used to get wound up playing with Ronaldo which turned into a falling out, which ended up with Ruud being sold and Ronaldo turning into the best player in the world! Im not saying Nani is anywhere near that but he still has time to improve!

Andy B

"...mdj is right..." ?, is he really?? "9 times out of 10" ?, more likely 9 times out ten that utter b******* is spouted (I should know :))- check your stats !

Also don't forget that Nani brings an awful lot more to the game than a traditional winger.

Mike

PS I like both Nani and Toni I think they both add a lot and give SAF great options

Nani has been given plenty of time and plenty of opportunities and he is getting worse! If his form dosent improve then imo he has to go before his value drops.
G.N.G

It's like Rooney has said enough is enough. If Nani is going to play like he is in the playground, then so am I!

He doesn't run for the ball anymore when Nani has it and he is giving it away just as much as Nani.

Nani is useless - Ryan Babel esque.

Rooney is past it at 26/27. Already on the decline as a footballer when he should be getting to his peak. Another Joe Cole. Shame, but why do you think we signed RVP when our Midfield looks so blatantly weak. Fergie has known that Rooney has been living off his reputation for the past 18 months at least and couldn't pass up on RVP as there is little value in a Def Mid in the market at the moment and Rooney is a liability.

Time for them both to go whilst we can still get some money from some silly Oligarchs or Royal Families.

Sween

Agreed GNG. I honestly think Nani has regressed since his the season before last where he was good. Give him a chance until January and then if he doesn't step up he has to go.

Rooney is far from past it. He has been carrying both us and england for the last 2/3 years and it has taken its toll on him. Bringing rvp means he wont have so much expectation on his shoulders and this will mean he can get back to creating goals like he did for ronaldo (aswell as scoring a few hopefully)
G.N.G

WOOOOOAAAAAH! Right! Bash Nani as much as you like. We all have different views but to compare him to...............Ryan Babel....too far mate, too far.

TK-Red

I remember Rooney getting p***ed off with Ronaldo alot for the same things mentioned above, doesn't mean he wanted him sold though.
if not a starter then surely he is a very strong squad player at the very least and can change a game.
It's not uncommon for SAF to entertain offers for players to give them a wake up call.
Supasub

Babel had all this hype about him when he signed for the Scousers and then he never delivered, they paid £11Mil+ for him I think and just constantly stuttered, the occasional great goal or run that pays off and then rubbish again. Just because Nani plays for us I'm not going to shy away from the comparison. What has Nani ever done, he frustrates all his team mates and the vast majority of fans? We paid even more for Nani and he has done even less in my opinion.

They both level up on the "MARDY" meter as well.

Sween

G.N.G - I hope Rooney picks up his form from the Ronnie days, but I just can't see it happening. He is going to get even less game time now RVP is here so it will take longer for him to gain his fitness and management seem to be running out of patience with his mediocre performances.

What has Rooney ever done in an England shirt - carrying England for 2/3 years? Probably explains why both England and (more worryingly) Utd are getting a bit boring and predictable to watch and play against. I think we need a mass overhaul of our attacking play, hopefully that's what Kagawa and RVP were all about.

Sween

^^ top goal scorer in 2010 wc qualification.

I really don't understand this witch hunt for nani, his stats are very impressive in terms of goals & assists over the last few years, I know he can be frustrating but genuinely, how many out and out wingers are better, who you would prefer to have in our squad.

IMO..bale, Di Maria, ribery..maybe robben, or rodriguez, moura etc who come with a big risk & bigger transfer fee.

Gpot7

It's not Rooneys fault Utd are predictable and sometimes boring!! It's the slow and sluggish midfield ! To say Rooney hasn't showed good form since Ronnie left is daft ! Our midfield as been sadly lacking since Ronnie left!

fozzy58

Am I the only one getting infuriated by this Sween berk?!?! I'm sorry mate, but to describe Rooney as "on the decline as a footballer" is little more the stupidity. And how the hell do u know that "Fergie has known that Rooney has been living off his reputation" is beyond me. Utter rubbish!! Every player goes on and off the boil, Rooney is our driving force and given a bit of practice, his and RVP will be a world class pairing.

Arron

Nani is trash and I never want to see his face again. End Off.

Pritpal

Who ever thinks nani is a good player should change what sport that they follow because nani is so bad,a poor mans ronaldo simple as.Three or four good games a season and thats it and then some utd fans think he is a world beater.Cop on.

Arron - Sorry If the truth hurts. I'm a passionate Utd supporter but Rooney hasn't justified the hype he gets. He is by some accounts the 4th best paid footballer on the planet and I can name 50+ players that have made more of a contribution to their team, using just basic Stats, which don't matter really to most people that know what they are talking about. But if you look past the goals and assists, playing for Utd at home ie an automatic + for most players, I just think we need to move on from the Rooney is Utd talk, he is now not as important since the RVP signing. It seems the key people are singing from my hymn sheet. He is being phased out for a sale next summer.

Sween

06 Sep 2012 23:15:40
I had to laugh at Rooney's comments today that he'd like to play in midfield when he's older.

He is a world class striker but will only ever be a decent midfielder, he showed this with his spell as a midfielder for us last season. If he was to play in midfield he'd have to play as the furthest forward in a midfield three. Kagawa was bought to play in the hole, as he has better vision awearness and ability to find people with a pass then Rooney has. And it's these vital qualities that are needed to play in midfield. Personally i think if Rooney is to drop back from the forward line later in his career he'd have a easier and more successful time becoming a full back.

Shappy

Shappys more confused than Scooby Doo!!!!!

Shappy dont be daft.
rooney could drop back and play in midfield, his first touch, passing, football brain and work rate would get him by fine.
i would day he would be as good as carrick or clevs to be honest.
jred

You was doin well till u mentioned him playin fullback!
Trebbs99

You havin' an actual laugh?! Rooney a full back?! LOL

He's got all the qualities to be a midfielder, good passing and his movement is good. We all know he has a fantastic footballing brain, also he's the only other player that can hit those perfectly accurate long balls up and across the pitch like Scholes can. Not to mention the fact he's stronger which is always a bonus. I've thought it would happen, spoke about it with my mates ages ago and now that he says he enjoys it, i'm sure it'll happen.

Ozwald

I'll say.
Rooney at fullback?
Have you lost your mind Shappy?
So, when Rooney loses his pace you'd stick him at fullback? So he can get skinned by tricky wingers all day?

Personally, i think Rooney would do a decent MF job. He's strong enough, can hold the ball well and has excellent vision and a can play great passes around the field.
My only concern is his temprament, but ability wise he definitely has the skills to do a good job.

Rooney has shyte first touch which will always make him loose the ball and give it back to opposition, in recent times he has gone worse

work on it Rooney!!

*Reddy

I think Rooney would be our best midfielder after Scholes if he played there. He played well there last season and that was as a striker just filing in for injuries. He is the only one in the squad with the vision and creativity capable of filling Scholes' place Cleverley has poor vision, technique, creativity and passing (relatively compared to Rooney) and seem to think if he runs around like a headless chicken passing sideways all the time that he can make up for it. Rooney for CM asap unless we buy a creative CM soon.

Dan

Last season he played with his head down too much and when he dropped deep he tried the hollywood pass too often, his first touch was too heavy and he lost the ball more often than he won it. The reason I feel he would be more suited to full back than midfield is he said he wanted to move back when he lost his explosiveness not his pace, he is a strong qiuck lad but.lacks the height to play a CB and lacks the touch and vision to play in CM. His pace and power along with his passing and tackling ability would be more suited to a full back position than midfield imo.

Shappy

I mostly agree with Shappy. He isn't CM material.

Bear in mind his age, so when do you guys think he should move back? Not now while he's at his peak as a striker, and not forgetting as a striker he guarantes 20+ a season. He wouldn't bag as many in midfield.

As Shappy said his first touch has dropped, he tries too many Hollywood balls ala Gerrard rather than Scholes.

he just isn't a midfielder. A lot of strikers seem to think they can drop back later in their career and it never works. You have to move back as a younger player like Scholes did so you have time to grow into the role.

Mort

Shappy
u must be joking do you honestly see rooney playing full back.

i would say when playing well rooney has every attribute to play CM.
jred

Rooney would gest destroyed in Midfield against any quality opposition. He has played upfront all of his career, it is something that comes natural to him now, the positions of defenders, angles of body, finding space, timing of runs, reading of the midfield runners etc. To then drop into Midfield will take him years to get to grips with it, he will be running arounnd like a headless chicken, not positioning himself properly and will pile more pressure on our already weak midfield as they would have to cover for him.

I personally tried this in my career thinking that my footballing brain and technique would suite midfield having played upfront and got fed up of not getting the ball enough - had moments of quality, but didn't track properly, tried things I shouldn't, switched off at key times, still marauded forward too often and forgot my defensive responsibilities at key times.

I am obviously not comparing myself to Rooney, but if you look at it relatively I was playing against far less talented players and he would be playing against the best of the best in their positions, who have been doing it all their lives - and frankly Rooney isn't the sharpest tool in the box. There is a reason why the best midfielders of recent times are all supremely intelligent players, football wise. Xavi, Iniesta, Scholes, Pirlo, Lampard, Gerrard, Modric, Fabregas, YaYa, Silva, Mata, Schweinsteiger, Sneijder - the list goes on and could you honestly see Rooney being half as effective as these guys.

Don't get me wrong, he would look class in certain games when he is left to his own devices, given time and no defensive responsibility, lower prem teams, but as soon as he is up agains the best players in midfield he will be shown up. 100% guaranteed.

Anyone that thinks he can slot into a central midfield position for a team like Utd need to take a reality check, it's just looking at some of his attributes and thinking they will work, but football at this standard is 90% mind and the rest physical.

If anybody can give some modern day examples of where this has happened I would be impressed, because I am struggling. A star striker converting to a star midfielder?!

Sween

I said that Rooney would be the longterm successor to Scholes years ago on here and had my head bitten off for it, I seem to remember another regular poster being in the same position. Rooney will develop into a Paul Scholes player: he will find space, have the vision for the long of short ball, push to the edge of the box with a LETHAL shot and generally direct the pace of the game. He is not ready at the moment (I would agree with Shappy on this), but he will become this player and grow into the roll very quickly as he matures further.

Better still, Rooney will be a nightmare for players oin the middle when he is on song. He will get at them, break up play and generally make himself a nuisance.

Let's remember, Rooney wasn;t saying 'I'm done up front,. I'm going to play there now', he said 'in the future'. Let's remember, Scholes was a gnger fox in the box before he was a maestro of the midfield.

MDJ

Sween
you must be having a laugh, just out of interest is there any other position you could play other than up front ,cos then we could maybe work out what would be best for rooney.

One more thing i dont see one post that says rooney could be a worldclass CM like yaya or schweinsteiger but simply that he could play there .

could he be as good as schweinsteiger yaya , no.
could he be as good as carrick clevs IMO yes
jred

Great point MDJ! Scholes use to be a striker but got pushed about to easy in his junior days and so he then became a midfielder. Dont agree at all Sween Rooney himself says he tries to play like Scholes and I can see it in him. Rooney is one of our sharpest players when on form and he is up there with our most intelligent attacking players in: Scholes, Giggs, RVP and yes Hernandez is a very smart player! I would say Scholes (maybe RVP but i dont know his game as well yet) is the only smarter players in attacking terms than Rooney and he is only 26. IMO he has all the tools to be a top CM which he has developed over his time with the ginger prince at united. Putting Lampard and Gerard in the comparison is pointless because Rooney would not be box to box he would be in the mould of Scholes and Xavi, Fabregas. I do get your point typically for strikers but Rooney is not a typical striker he is the only striker in the world that I know of who would have all the tools to be a cm and I look forward to him proving people wrong!

Dan

So scholes was a striker in his youth and gradually droped bk so ppl against rooney playing midfield are a bit shortsighted, rooney would adapt and i think he will be one of the most important players for united and their future success, kyhughes87

Rooney's first touch is downright atrocious at times. His close passing is decent and his long passing is good but he lacks intelligence and vision to be able to play as a deep lying playmaker or pace setter ( a la scholes/ pirlo/ alonso ) but his workrate and strength and tackling would allow him to be a decent box to box mid. But seriously we would be losing a worldclass striker to the expense of a decent midfieder, that would be dumb.
Mick

I agree with Shappy (apart from the fullback comment, lol) - Rooney is not a natural CM in my eyes. Doesn't play enough 'percentage football' and would be wasted tracking back. For me he's a natural no. 10 where he can both create and score goals

Gav

Mick I honestly don't know where you get that from I thought Rooney has great vision. His first touch is good when he is on form and with a string of games behind him but granted sometimes it is bad.

Scholes was around 14 when he dropped back and didn't get into the United 1st team until he was 21, so he 7 years to learn the job and he had top class players such as Robson and Ince to learn from.

Rooney's 26-27 and you expect him to drop back? Who's going to learn from?

What's the point in pulling Rooney back into Midfield if it is just because he is better than Carrick? I don't even think he would be for the reasons I mentioned earlier. People forgot how injury prone Rooney is as well, he doesn't tackle properly and it takes years to get the positional sense sorted. He takes a month to get back to fitness after injury or suspension, and that is playing as a forward, he needs to be even fitter for midfield. No chance in hell of it happening with a positive outcome.

Our standards are already dropping across the board and our competition is getting stronger. Do you honestly think we have the time to gamble on Rooney eventually being capable of doing a decent job in midfield? I haven't been impressed with him for a couple of years in his current role, his tap ins and pens are masking a lot of poor performances. I think there are only a handful of games he has been world class in and then they were against lesser teams. I know there are going to be those of you that think he is world class and has been a key player for us since Ronnie left, but I disagree, most other decent forwards would score a lot playing upfront for Utd, it is drummed into the players to feed Rooney, so he gets the ball a hell of a lot and the majority of time it is wasted. I think after Nani he gives the ball away the most out of any top teams players (without pressure as forwards inevitably have more pressure on them).

How often do we see Rooney mentioned in the same breath as Cristiano or Messi now, that debate died a death a long time ago, which just shows how overrated he has been. Rooney is nothing more than a good player for a great team.

I hope I'm wrong, but I rarely am!

Sween {Ed007's Note - You were wrong yesterday gggrrrrrrr!}

It has nothing to do with Carrick i'm sure no one is saying Rooney should play a holding role that would be pure lunacy! Its Scholes who needs replacing. Does anyone hoestly believe that Cleverley has the ability to replace Scholes? Not in a million years for me. Rooney is the only one who has the vision and range of passing to do it unless we bring someone else in. Yes he is a world class striker but so is RVP and Kagawa did incredibly at Dortmund as a number 10 in the hole so IMO Rooney will not be missed as much as people think. I think this may have been SAFs plan all along. Add to that the fact we are still interested in another striker (confirmed talks with Damiao last week) then it would further seem that SAF is thinking about pushing Rooney further back as the playmaker.

Dan

Ed 007 - Utd did everything they could to get rid of Nani to Russia as I said they would. Just because Nani is even greedier than I thought doesn't make me totally wrong. We did what we could before the Russki market closed. Nani just sums up what's wrong with the game at the minute - too much cash and ego for average players.

Half wrong - he'll be gone in January! haha

Sween {Ed007's Note - I was referring to your blasphemous comments about a certain wee ginger headed MF that is playing at Wigan just now.}

Ed 007 - Oh right, you really think McCarthy is good enough for Utd, seriously?

Dan - Jred said that he would do a better job than Carrick or Clevs, that's why I referred to the comparison.

Anyway, there is no way it will happen, Rooney is nowhere near capable of being disciplined enough for a CM role, behind the striker yes, but replacing Scholes never in a million years.

Sween {Ed007's Note - I honestly do Sween, he would inject some much needed aggression, energy and urgency into the team and his experience for his age is definitely in his favour.}

I must have missed something with him then Ed, although I have only watched him a dozen or so times for the full 90 and he isn't exactly playing with world beaters. Looking forward to next Saturday and I'll keep my eyes on him. We definitely do lack energy and agression at the minute - but I think Fletcher will provide that when he returns though and Jones obviously - still just squad players unfortunately, we need a bit of quality on the ball as well. Enough of this sideways passing.

Sween {Ed007's Note - I'm not going to say keep an eye on him and come back next weekend, that's just a kiss of death on him lol I have watched him since he was 15 Sween at Hamilton Accies, I was gutted that Celtic didn't sign him but that was more to do with the politics of him choosing to represent Eire and his treatment at grounds than money etc. When he does leave Wigan it will be to a top team I just hope that it is to Utd. I could go on if you want :-)
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