10 Dec 2013 09:40:22
For a change and god knows we need one, some observations on our standard of play.

I have noticed over the last few games that our centre back pairing rarely will bring the ball out to the point of screaming at the TV and instead hoof it upfield 40 yards even where there seems to be plenty of room to run forward with the ball where and I can't even see an opposition player on the TV screen. I am not sure if this is instructions from the manager or they just don't want the responsibility in case of losing the ball. Vidic has never been that way to start with and not the most confident on the ball.

The same applies for our midfielders as kagawa is the only one that is willing to take the ball and move forward. The rest tend to want to play a more stationary role and pass it backwards, sideways and little forward passes.

I also read what Pardow said about coming to OT and going for the win, but what utter nonsense as they set up with 9 or 10 players behind the ball and packed the midfield to stop us from playing. They had 2 goal scoring opportunities.

Given there is no treat from our Cb or midfielders to make darting runs forward, where the opposition players have to leave who ever they are marking and pick up the man with the ball, it makes it easy for them to pack the wings and cover our 2 main threats which are Rooney and RVP.

If I was an opposing manager, it is quite easy to defend against a team that does not offer any threat down the middle of the pitch and I know everything is coming down the wings or going long to the strikers.

I honestly can't remember the last time one of midfielders got an opposition goalie to save a shot, which is very unusual when you watch other Pl teams.

I would appreciate views as most top teams today have ball playing centre backs who bring the ball out and are very comfortable with the Idea.

Even when teams win the ball back they tend to play and pass out of defense to offense, where our guys tend to just kick it away and sit back and defend deep again as they come at us.

Whilst I rate vidic very highly, I am inclined to believe we may have to look at bringing in a CD who is comfortable bringing the ball out and has pace. On midfielders, there is nothing I can say that has not been said.

Traveling this afternoon and will miss the game tonight, hope we put in a good performance, but in reality only need a draw to win the group, so would not be surprised to see a few names on the team sheet that was not expected.

Need to be rested for Villa this weekend as that is a must win match for us given how things have gone the last few weeks.

1.) 10 Dec 2013
Anderson is our only midfielder capable of carrying any sort of threat, but he tends to over do it, therefore getting dispossessed or passing the ball straight to the opposition defenders.

And imo in a 4-2-3-1, there's less pressure on midfielders to press forward. They have more of a sit back and cover the fullbacks stance, with the wingers cutting inside and acting as virtual attacking midfielders at times, therefore creating an overload down the middle capable of giving the opposing team a horrible time, not allowing them a sniff of possession. and with the fullbacks pressing high, the wingers can be allow to move inside, interchanging and creating space for the full backs and themselves.

Therefore I believe we're better off playing rafael and Evra pushing forward supporting kagawa and januzaj, who drift inside, interchanging with Rooney and van Persie and creating space and opportunities.

The midfielders would have to be a bit more forward than usual, and the centre backs should pay a high line, suffocating the opposing team and bossing possession. But we need to have pace in our ranks to avoid counterattacks. So for now, I'd have one of Jones and Cleverley partner Fellaini, with with Evans the mainstay in the defense with either Smalling or Jones. Vidic and Ferdinand need to be pushed out because their presence is only hurting the team

2.) 10 Dec 2013
I agree although I don't think that it's just that the CB's aren't comfortable on the ball.

Both Vidic and Rio are lacking in pace, and whether or not is is a tactical decison by the managment or by the players themselves they are reluctant to puch forward for fear of leaving too much space for pacey attackers to exploit.

This is further compounded in that neither Carrick nor Fellani are the most mobile of players. They too seem fearful of leaving too much space especially when they have to compensate for Evra's forward play. The result is when the team breaks down the oppositions attack the CB's and CM's are so deep that we have almost 10 outfield players to try and beat in order to create goal scoring chances.

Most of the really good attacking teams press much higher up the pitch meaning they can attack the opposition goal much quicker when the ball is won. Bayern did this amazingly well last year in destroying Barcelona.

That for me is the key reason behind the lack of quality attacking play in our team not just this year but in the previous 1/2 seasons also.

I agree with needing the midfielders to have shots from range though. Even if it's just to win corners, or hope that the save falls kindly for one of our players. I remember Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez peppering the goal with shots from everywhere - that's before Nani, Scholes and the others.

3.) 10 Dec 2013
Shahram

I agree with most of your post except the Kagawa bit. This is probably why I am extremely disappointed with him. He is reluctant to run with the ball and is too often intent on chosing the safer option. He has his give and go's but only when there is someone on his wave length. He does not beat him man often and is easily pushed off the ball.

I am sure he will look much better with better technical players around him, but to be honest he does not look half the player he looked at Dortmund. While some of it is because of our sleep walking players, he will have to take some blame as well.

Deeps.

4.) 10 Dec 2013
Tactically we have 4 main problems.

First, like you said our defenders are not bringing the ball out of defence and are too ready to play it long. This is because (a) Vidic isn't a very good ball player, Rio doesn't have the legs, Jobes has been shifted to midfield and Smalling is a terrible passer. This leaves us with Evans as the only ball playing CB. If you bring in Gary, like we should have in the summer, this will help us in this area. But (b), the bigger problem, is that our CM are playing too deep. Our midfield is playing really close to the CBs and this means that they are not getting the space to bring the ball forward. To get the most from ball playing defenders you need a midfield who are wiling to push up and offer an outlet for a forward pass.

The second problem is that our midfielders simply aren't good enough. This has been done to death but you can see that players like RVP and Hernandez are frustrated that the ball isn't coming forward quick enough, and it is telling that we had the lowest number of forward passes in the league last weekend. We need players who can take the ball forward and pick out our forwards' runs. However, as you say, it is also obvious that teams will continue to play 3 in the centre to exploit our formation.

Third, we are far too one sided in most games. By playing players like Kagawa and Welbeck on the left we are focusing most of our play to the right hand side. These players are drifting from the left wing to centre, leaving us very predictable in attack and leaving Evra completely exposed in defence. The problem is that the alternatives, Nani and Young, are consistently poor. The other alternative is to keep playing Januzaj, but he is too young to play every week. The truth is that we need a top class left sided player.

Finally, our attacking play seems to be focused on making space down the wing, primarily the right wing, and the crossing the ball. The problem with this is that our wingers are failing to create anything with their crosses and our strikers are not the type of players who thrive on crosses into the box. Valencia has about 10 crosses in every game, and about one of these finds a United player. We need to find some penetration down the middle because teams know that if they keep our strikers shackled, they can deal with our wing play.

Ultimately, I honestly think that we need to move to 3 in the middle. The lopsided 4-4-2 isn't working and teams now know how to get a result against us.

5.) 10 Dec 2013
GCU, I agree with your post and it is clear to see for all of us how little threat we pose through the middle.
On the subject of our CB's staying back, this intself creats problems as they are often pushed back and once they hoof the ball up, then the opposition midfielders can come back straight at them only 10 yard from our goal area.
Our reluctanacy to come out of defence is also to do with the slowness of our CB's, they are scared to go forward in case they lose the ball, and with no pace, we will be caught out again.
A quick CB and two athletic midfielders will transform the team.

6.) 10 Dec 2013
Some good tactical analysis in these posts. is there anything positive about the way we are playing at the moment?

the only point I would question is from danny. why do you say januzaj is too young to play every week?

I appreciate he is still developing physically and we have to be careful not to overplay him, but I certainly think he looks good enough to be first choice for the first team and should be getting as many games as we think he can handle

7.) 10 Dec 2013
Andrew the lad is 18, and although his ability is not in question, I don't think that 18 year olds should have the pressure of being first choice on them. Players like Giggs, Scholes, Beckham and even Ronaldo were all used sparingly at his age because the manager knew that you have to allow a player learn and make mistakes before they are expected to perform every week.

Look at Michael Owen, played too much at a young age and was past his best at 25. It is great that Januzaj is getting games, but players like him and Zaha should be understudies to top quality experienced players who they can learn from.

8.) 10 Dec 2013
Danny - In the case of our defence, it's a case of the chicken or the egg. Is our defence being prevented from playing further up the pitch by our deep midfield or is our midfield sitting deep because our defence won't push up at the back and they don't want to leave a big gap in between? Personally I think that if we had a defender with pace and who can pass, he would then force our midfielders forward and we would see much better from a few of them.

9.) 10 Dec 2013
Danny, I agree its important not to over play young players and there are numerous examples where it has created problems later in their careers.

however, there are also players where its not been a problem such as Rooney and giggs.

januzaj is the best winger we have which is why he should be first choice. surely one game a week wouldn't be a problem physically or mentally?

also, he seems to have the right temperament to be able to handle the pressure and many young players are able just to enjoy playing and not worry about it.

whats more, I think the utd supporters are very supportive of young players. we dontvexpectvthe moon on a stick from them and I can't see there's any pressure on januzaj to be the saviour of Manchester utd.

I guess I just want to see the lad playing more because he's quality

10.) 10 Dec 2013
Danny, just to back up my point about giggs, he made 51 appearances in hisvsecond season, 46 in his third and 58 in his forth.

I don't have the stats for how many of those were full games but either way its still a lot of first team experience.

also, Rooney signed for us when he was 18 and he had already played 77 times for Everton. in his first two seasons at it he played 43 and 48 games respectively.

you also mention ronaldo. he came to OT when he was 18 and made 40 appearances in hisvfirst season, 50 in his second and 47 in his third.

Beckham was slightly different and only started making significant number of appearances when he was 20. the same is true of scholes.

januzaj certainly has the ability and it looks like he has the temperament as wee. like I say, I can't believe playing him once a week would do anything but benefit him and the team.

you talk about learning from top quality experienced professionals and I can't think of any better education than playing alongside rvp and Rooney against top opposition

11.) 10 Dec 2013
10 Dec 2013 17:26:56
Andrew Giggs was quite injury probe in his mid 20s from playing too much too young. An issue he only solved with yoga which has led to his longevity.

12.) 10 Dec 2013
Mr E, this is the number of games a season Giggs played, starting in 90/91 season at the age of 17:

2, 51, 46, 58, 40, 44, 37, 37, 41, 44, 45, 37, 41, 44, 45, 40, 59, 47, 44, 37, 44, 43, 47, 32, 38, 33, 32, 13 (so far this season).

Not really much of a dip in his mid twenties but a slight one I'll grant you.

Surely all professional footballers should practice Yoga given the obvious and extrordinary benefits Giggs has demonstrated.

13.) 10 Dec 2013
Andrew Giggs has give up an awful lot. He doesn't drink anymore, and basically spends the entire week keeping his body ready for the next game. What he can still do at 40 is remarkable, but he himself admits that he had to completely change every aspect of his life to prolong his career.

My point isn't that we shouldn't play Januzaj. He should play and be regular feature in the team. The difference between players like Giggs and Ronaldo, and Januzaj isn't just physical (although he is a very slight lad) it's about pressure and expectation. Giggs and Ronaldo were allowed develop knowing that others would step up if the didn't perform. Januzaj, on the other hand, would be forced into a position where the brunt of the creative pressure would be directly on his shoulders. We need a top class left sided player who can allow Januzaj to develop without the burden of expectation. The left side isn't even the lad's best position anyway.

14.) 10 Dec 2013
Giggs had persistent hamstring problems, the same as Owen, but Giggs took to yoga.

15.) 11 Dec 2013
Danny, perhaps then the only thing we see differently is the expectation placed on januzaj as a first choice player.

I reckon the expectation and pressure on him would be minimal. we all recognise he is in then team on merit but because he is so young, we understand he will make mistakes and is in no way the finished article.

I think most supporters would be just happy to see one of our young talents playing his natural game without placing any expectations on him.

I'm not sure where you see the perceived pressure on januzaj would come from if he played more 1st team football?

we have options if he needs a break but for now we should just trust him to get on with it and enjoy himself. he's in good form and utd look a better team with him in it. he certainly never looks fazed by anything as far as I can tell

perhaps we've debated this one to death and at the end of the day you would just play him a little less than I would.

what I'm sure we both agree on he's a very special talent and I'm sure we have some great moments from him to look forward to. in fact, we should be excited about a number of young players who are just about ready to start integrating into the first team squad.