21 Nov 2023 08:42:31
The football is dire cos the tactics and game plan are dire, you can’t just single out individuals like Rashford and try to blame them for all is wrong at United. Rashford just seems to be the scapegoat in some minds on here currently, no one saying he is great but TBF he is better than most of the tripe we have and have even bought recently, so I would say Rashford is the least of united problems atm.

1.) 21 Nov 2023
21 Nov 2023 09:30:59
It's just his turn Rangers, we've done the other 10!

2.) 21 Nov 2023
21 Nov 2023 10:56:14
It’s not about winning, personnel or tactics. Its about effort!

3.) 21 Nov 2023
21 Nov 2023 11:06:17
We’ve seen multiple managers trying to implement different tactics and game plans over the past 10 years. Every single one has eventually fallen flat. The common denominator is the players. No single player is at fault, but there is an absolutely rotten player culture at the club where it’s obvious that they are unwilling to buy into any footballing approach that requires consistent effort.

It’s a toxic dressing room that drags everyone down to its level. And the players know that if they stop performing, the manager gets sacked and they get to stay.

4.) 21 Nov 2023
21 Nov 2023 11:42:01
Rangersred

You say it's the tactics and game plan, I say you're miles off.

However remarkably, we're 6th in the table and very much in the competing pack chasing Europe.
We're still well in the midst of a monster injury crisis that has made us defensively weak and certainly been the main contributing factor of the concession of 30 goals in all comps from 18 games - we also have a new keeper who hasn't really had any time to familiarise himself with the defensive setup what with all the upheaval.
We've had very little threat up front because - Rashford's missing the diligent work of Shaw, there has been next to nothing coming from the right, Antony's got worse, Pellistri hasn't stepped up, Garnacho hasn't stepped up, Martial is Martial, Amad has been out injured, and Hojlund has needed better from his teammates to deliver the goods that a striker of his stature should be showing. We've scored just 25 goals from those 18 games.
From 12 PL games we've scored 13 and conceded 16.

So we are conceding more than we score, yet in the PL table we're 6th.
There hasn't really been a single standout player this season in excellent form - not one, but we're still 6th.

So what exactly is it that has us 6th? It's not goals to game ratios, it's not stellar performances.

I say it's a combination of two things.
The first being that, aside from the 5 teams above us, our rivals for Europe qualification are also not firing on all cylinders - but none of them have had an injury crisis like ours and none of our players look particularly better than theirs.
The second factor, that does influence the first is game plans and tactics delivered by the boss.

I put it to you that, despite the mistakes that ten Hag has made, he is actually the main reason we are where we are in the table.

I'm sure you may disagree, but I would then ask you to explain concisely why exactly it is that we're 6th in the table?

5.) 21 Nov 2023
21 Nov 2023 11:57:03
We have not been good to watch but we simply do not have enough depth of talent to make up for the injuries. Shaw and Martinez were vital last year. Shaw was excellent when he had to fill in at CH. Rashford had a purple patch but once that ran out we struggled to score. Our midfield is largely makeshift now. Eriksen seems to lack the stamina, Casemiro's injured, at the tail end of his career, was not first choice and, in any event, seems to have faded, which may be partly as a result of the red cards he's been getting for things he got away with in La Liga, At forward we have a mistake in Antony, a mistake in Sancho, and a youngster who will take a bit of time, especially because the service to him is so bad. Despite all of the problems we're 6th. And then there's Mount, who has been just about okay, but to imagine he could make a substantial difference when all around hm there are problems mixed with short term fixes, loan players around. whom nothing can really be built. The manager cannot be faulted if we do not have a forward who can put the ball in the goal, which Garnacho, Hojlund and Rashford seem to be incapable of doing right now despite some very good chances.

6.) 21 Nov 2023
21 Nov 2023 12:34:56
Shawthing, I'd wager that Luke Shaw at CB has been a relative success compared to a few other options. I'd be happy to see him start there with Regulon at LB. I'd even say he would be right up there as a potential captain.

7.) 21 Nov 2023
21 Nov 2023 15:29:47
RangersRed yes you are right Rashford is the scapegoat simply because the minimum fans expect is a bit of effort. Strolling around the pitch sulking. These players have thrown 2 or 3 managers under the bus and now the same with Ten Hag. The majority are not fit to wear a United shirt and have had more than a fair chance. Out of the current squad I'd keep maybe 4 or 5 players them being Hojlund Garnacho Bruno Martinez and Shaw. The rest are past it or not up to it. You keep up your agenda with Ten Hag tho ??.

8.) 21 Nov 2023
21 Nov 2023 16:55:51
It’s very easy to explain why we are 6th and don’t need to be that concise but as you wish

I put it to you my learned friend you just have to cast your minces over who we actually played worst still we have only just managed to scrape by them, any half decent team as wiped the floor with us…. That’s why we are 6th but for how long that maybe is debatable because even Chelsea are getting it together now, in a matter of months! We on 19 months and nowhere near good enough, but what is even more damning is the buys/ loans
Antony, Mount, Arambat, none of them are injured and they can’t even make the team of the person who bought them, what does that say!

We got 1 striker who actually gets about a lot (so did Weghorst) but can’t score a goal in EPL, even by now with no service he should have manufactured a goal for himself at least. Atm he is nowhere near good enough to lead the line at united…

It’s not lack of effort that I keep hearing on here by the players it’s because they have not bought into ETH by any stretch, but that don’t matter because he will be gone very soon, there is not a cat in hells chance SJR gives him anymore money to spend, would you with his track record at buying/ loaning.

9.) 21 Nov 2023
21 Nov 2023 17:00:40
I'm curious when people refer to 'these' players when talking about them getting x managers sacked. We're talking about a 10-year period, so obviously the players are quite different, bar a few. So in terms of personal, we should be able to narrow it down to exactly the few players who are the problem, or we're referring more to an ever-changing collective of players with the mindset, or indifferent attitude towards effort etc, being the problem throughout, pointing more towards other non-playing staff who have allowed this culture to grow.

10.) 21 Nov 2023
21 Nov 2023 17:14:31
Rangerred. With a proper football director and scouting network it won't fall on the manager to find the players we need, which is unfortunately how it has been. Once again it comes back to Woodward's legacy, which every decent manager who has left the club has identified.

11.) 21 Nov 2023
21 Nov 2023 17:31:50
Rangers red you are without a doubt the most delusional blinkered individual I’ve seen on here since the last name change.

12.) 21 Nov 2023
21 Nov 2023 17:40:36
The manager has preferred options and pretty much every time we don’t sign them and sign the 2nd or 3rd or sometimes 4th option, over time that has left us with a rotten squad nowhere near good enough to challenge. Add to that the injuries and all the noise around the club and upheaval and you can understand why any manager will struggle.

13.) 21 Nov 2023
21 Nov 2023 18:31:30
Spenno

The latter part of your comment spanks the nail square - the culture that's been allowed to fester.

Like a school with a weak core of teachers, even the common demeanour of the pupils on it's own is all that's required to influence a new arrival.
It's exactly the same rot that's afflicted this club - an element of petulance and poor principles being refreshed anew under the stewardship of pathetically weak individuals.

It is obviously the fault of the Glazers, for whom nothing is important so long as the gradient favours their thirst for more coin.
They have shoehorned incompetent people into positions of power for years and the subsequent mess has created a perfect breeding ground for incredibly poor attitude.

I would say that the more authoritarian regimes of Van Gaal and Mourinho, exposed the porous spirits of certain individuals and evoked a somewhat clandestine culture amongst the younger players that has since evolved into something rather more malignant.

Ole simply hid away from dealing with that on any level and, tbf, that's probably more because he knew it would be an utterly thankless task that would have likely cost him his job sooner.

Ten Hag's had to be ruthless with his broom - Ronaldo, Iqbal, etc.
But that's just skimming the surface, he can't complete the goal of ridding the club of this culture unless heads roll from greater heights.

Like plenty have suggested, he might not be given that time, but no manager on the planet can get this done without support from above - hopefully SJR and his team will get it right.

14.) 21 Nov 2023
21 Nov 2023 17:42:22
Exactly Spenno, good examples are Cas And Varane, Cas virtually only a year and I don’t buy this his legs are gone, he just had enough of what he is being asked to do, Mount been here months and suddenly he in same malaise! There is hardly a player here that’s been here for the 10 years we been crap, so to blame the players is stupid immature talk, people on the band wagon on crucifying Rashford saying he not tracking back, maybe just maybe that’s what he been ask to do and how to play, any half decent coach like Jose, if someone did not do what he said off they come same with Pep, so I don’t think for a minute he not bothered or not fit enough, it’s what he being ask to do!

15.) 21 Nov 2023
21 Nov 2023 22:18:37
I doubt there is a single outfield player in the league who is told he doesn't need to track back if he doesn't fancy it. Maybe Messi used to get a free pass to do what he wanted back in the day, but those days are gone.

16.) 22 Nov 2023
22 Nov 2023 07:00:38
So in that case Spenno, why would any manager start a player who is disobeying every single thing he sets out then, would that not be severe poor management, if it was maybe one game he did not follow his instructions he would be taken off, but if virtually every game he was totally undermining the managers instructions he would not play! But he does every game

Unless of course because the severe shortage of goals in the team he is being told to stay far up as possible!

Either way it comes back to poor management whatever way you look at it.

17.) 22 Nov 2023
22 Nov 2023 10:39:02
I think disobeying is probably the wrong term. Devoid of energy / tactical awareness, maybe.