26 Feb 2014 21:23:21
Eds (specially Ed002),

I know this sounds cynical, but do you know / at what point do you think the board would/will start considering changing the manager? Personally I think DM will stay until at least November barring an absolute meltdown the rest of the season.

Also, any ideas on what his vision of the team is? At the moment its tough to figure out which direction and what tactics he wants to implement with the team. His signings suggest one thing, but the setup for most matches suggest something different.

Thanks for the site!

{Ed002's Note - He inherited a team that needs extensive rework and he should have the opportunity to do that over then next two to three windows.}

1.) 27 Feb 2014
Quite agree Ed no one expected the players to be quite as abject as they are

2.) 27 Feb 2014
Ed002

Are the supposed targets set in stone?

{Ed002's Note - Of course not.}

3.) 27 Feb 2014
Ed002, with all due respect why should he be given 2 seasons like you said, what in his career has he done that the fans should give him such leeway, at your own club chelsea would this be the case, the answer is no, your fans didn't give AVB, this luxury and he had a CV moyes would kill for, it just makes me laf when fans of other sacking clubs advise us to stay with this dross and he deserves the chance when they quite clearly would not stand for it at their own club, and quite right too.

{Ed002's Note - What's it got to do with Chelsea?}

4.) 27 Feb 2014
I completely agree with ed, moyes took over a team on the slide that needs rebuilt. Average cm, average wingers, average back 4. I said last year it was Fergys best achievement winning the league with this squad and everything I have seen this year backs it up.
The transition from fergy was always going to be difficult and all the talk of a smooth transition was rubbish, I don't believe you can replace a manager of Fergys ability and influence smoothly this year was always going to be tough.

As the regulars will know I wasn't impressed with the appointment of moyes, I didn't buy in to the he plays 4-2-3-1 and a similar style as Dortmund.
At Everton he played defensive football, 4-4-1-1 with the emphasis on wing play and hard work, not a lot has changed.
Players like kagawa where always going to struggle
Like it or not United have appointed moyes on a long term contract with the job of rebuilding the club. I don't believe he will be judged on this season as this season was always going to be difficult but I do believe he will be given a significant amount of money and at least another season to complete the job he was set

5.) 27 Feb 2014
27 Feb 2014 09:26:42
Moyes completing the job? problem is he does not know what his job is. it clearly wasnt to turn us into a laughing stock in a matter of months. he can have more money but elite players will not join in the summer because he clearly will not make them better players and offer a vision of the future challenging for major honours. how can he when he has never won anything in his managerial career. we are stuck with him I agree, but I have a sneaky feeling we may slide further down before the season ends(its possible) and may even finish 8th or 9th. I agree the players are letting us down badly but Moyes gets paid a lot of money to manage our great club and if we are saying the only answer is to throw loads of money at last years champions then we should have brought in a manager with a pedigree befitting our great club. I don't think moyes will turn it round with 200 million and I doubt he is capable of getting us top 4 no matter how many t.windows he has. nice guy but a little fish in a big pond. body language worrying and that transfers onto the pitch

6.) 27 Feb 2014
The point is he isn't getting the best out of the current players, so why would he get the best out of the new players? If players are uninspired by the manager, then the manager is fighting a losing battle. Whether the players are on the slide is irrelevant. They can all still play much better than they have been, so why aren't they playing better? Moyes didn't lose the dressing room, he never had it in the first place.

7.) 27 Feb 2014
Syd
A lot where prob all ready leaving .
Ferdy vidic evra.
Some simply aren't good enough young, cleverly etc.
And then our 2 best players from last year Carrick Rvp have both been injured.

I think this season was always going to be difficult which ever manager was taking over . Arsenal and liverpool have benefited from a settled squad and have been improving over the last 2 year . City and Chelsea while changing there manager have better players than us .

There is an argument that top players shouldn't need to be inspired, they should give there all for the club that pays there wages.

I have said many times this isn't a top team average back 4, average cm, average wingers. Ferguson was the greatest or one the best ever managers there has been who had brought a stability that no other team in Europe have enjoyed.
It was always going be difficult for who ever took over I'm amazed that people expected any different .

8.) 27 Feb 2014
A lot of the complaints I am reading on this site are exactly the same I read last year.
The difference is this year people are blaming moyes, last year they blamed the players as no one would dare question fergy.
We could be playing better but I'm not convinced we would of been top 4 even if we where as the scouse, arsenal, city and Chelsea have been able to field better players .
Take rvp and Rooney out the team and it doesn't look a top 4 team to me .

9.) 27 Feb 2014
The squad needed building last season and the season before, but under SAF we still managed to finish on the same number of points as City or more. Under Moyes with the same squad (in fact better) we are 7th and we have been disgraceful. Where would we be now under SAF? We would be up there with the others for sure. Doubt we would have won the league, but we would have been there or thereabouts at this stage of the season. I am not directly blaming Moyes, it's not his fault the players do not want to play under him. This mistake is down to the owners for employing Moyes. I don't think this squad ever wanted Moyes to replace SAF and its now becoming more and more apparent. When Vidic, Ferdinand and Evra leave we will know more, but unless you are purposely turning a blind eye to what's happening, it's pretty obvious to most. We need reinforcements, but that isn't the main problem here. The main problem is the players aren't happy and that is why we are playing so poorly this season.

10.) 27 Feb 2014
Jred, I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying, we certainly need squad improvements and some of the players are not good enough to be first teamers, but this exact same squad can play better and the reason they are not IMO, is mentally. I do not believe the players have dealt with the change of manager properly. Too much change, too quickly and they look nervous without the great man. I think we will improve with signings, but I think Moyes is the wrong man to take us forward long-term. IMO SAF should have retired sooner to make sure a better and more high profile manager was able to replace him. I think it's all been handled amateurishly.

11.) 27 Feb 2014
Syd is right on this one.

The key question is not whether the squad is one of the best in Europe or even the league. The key question is: do people think David Moyes is getting the best out of the players he has?

SAF's main strength was that he could get players to perform at their best. This season Moyes has struggled to get any players to perform at their best, even Rooney is playing below his best, albeit better than last season. With such a massive drop in form throughout the squad you have to ask why that is the case. Moyes needs to shoulder part of the responsibility for this, and the majority of responsibility for his inability to make strides to turn things around.

I think Moyes is here for the long-run. I doubt he could have performed much worse so far and he's still here and fully backed by the owners. Next season he won't get the sack either. He has performed so abysmally this year that he can only improve next season. So even if we are merely competing for a top 4 position the club can claim that he is making progress.

12.) 27 Feb 2014
Syd
Ferguson was THE best manager ever, is moyes as good? No
Will moyes or any other manager get as much out of a group off players as fergy could? No
Last year lots of teams where poor and underperformed, I actually think United over performed, this year the standard has been much better. City Chelsea arsenal and liverpool have imo played better football than we did last year, city and Chelsea have better players.
Arsenal got more points in the second half of last season than United and have continued to this season.
Even with fergy due to injuries to Carrick and Rvp I don't think we would be top 3 this year.

Can this group of players play better? Yes
After having a manager of Fergys ability and stability leave the club was it likely that this team would not play as well?Yes.
This year was always going to be difficult I am amazed people are surprised.
The team needs rebuilt and it can't be done over night.
Moyes needed to get his own team in as soon as possible, he has to put his own stamp on the team as soon as possible and if that means some pain for long term gain then so be it.this has to be moyes team and the sooner the better.

I wouldn't of appointed moyes but imo it is to early to judge because the task of replacing fergy and building the team is massive and is why moyes was given a 6 year contract. I would imagine that the people in the know realise this and I think moyes will be given time.

I do wonder if things would of been different if moyes had of got the players he wanted in the summer and injuries had been better.
Will moyes turn it round? I don't know but if we start to give managers a few month to build a team or expect instant success it will be the beginning of the end .

13.) 27 Feb 2014
Danny, exactly my thinking. However I think there will need to be a massive improvement when the spend big bucks this summer, if there is still no change then I think he will be sacked by November. But like you said, it would be hard not to improve.

14.) 27 Feb 2014
Replacing fergy was huge, he was more than a manager he was united.
I'm not surprised the new manager has struggled . I don't think the club will be that surprised I think like ed has said the club realize the squad needs rebuilt .
I also think they realize how big and difficult this is going to . I think fergy could see this coming and that's what was behind the whole ' you need to get behind the manager " speech.

Because of all of that I think it's to early to judge, I'm not a moyes fan I said that at the time, I said he will have to prove himself but when you take in to account all the above I think he will need more than the 7 months Sydney and Danny have given him or the 7 minutes others did.

Danny Sydney may be right, but for me it's to early to judge I expect the club and fergy feel the same

15.) 27 Feb 2014
Jred, Jose wasn't my choice to be manager as he wasn't a long-term solution, but he would have done a much better job than Moyes has done due to his status and the fact he is a proven winner. He would have had the players geed up and they would be playing their hearts out for him. He would have been an instant inspiration to the players and that is what the players are missing. They are not convinced by Moyes and this is the outcome. We do need better players, but I have a feeling we need another manager more. I really hope I'm wrong and Moyes is a success, but if you cannot inspire the players, what hope do you have?

16.) 27 Feb 2014
Jred, no one expected us to be an instant success after SAF stepped down, City were always going to be difficult to top this season, but no one expected this to happen. No one could have forecast this. It's been a complete disaster and I wonder if Meulensteen would have done a worst job? I don't think he would have. What we needed when SAF stepped down was subtle changes, someone like Moyes replacing Phelan, working under SAF for a season to eventually takeover. The players would have been able to get used to Moyes and the club could have seen if it was going to work. We would have kept the same coaching staff and scouting staff. Targets could have been worked on by both Moyes and SAF. Subtlety could have worked. If we were going to bring in a manager, change the coaching staff, scouting staff and tactics, then it should have been a proven manager that the players would have looked up to and respected. I think it was handled poorly and MU only have themselves to blame. It's not like SAF didn't have time to prepare for this.

17.) 27 Feb 2014
I find it interesting that some say give Moyes until November/Christmas because what are we going to do then? If we sacked him then all the money will have been spent and we would have to find an interim manager, next season would be a potential write off as well as this. That would put us in the realms of Liverpool 1990. What I can't see is how he will suddenly change and inspire a group of top players, if and it is an if top players come in they could be as unimpressed as the present bunch seem to be. Is Moyes going to change his philosophy over summer? If the answer is no then we need to make a decision at the end of the season.

18.) 27 Feb 2014
Syd
Fergy wanted out not a number 2 .
No top manager will take a number 2 job why would they .Moyes needs to build a moyes team it is hard to accept but the fergy era is over.
This is what happens when a club lose a manager like fergy .
Fergy leaving was always going to be difficult, would Jose, guardiola got more out this team? We will never know

I argued for Jose over and over again, big enough personality etc was my key argument.
I said back in October we wouldn't make top 4 I still think we will finish 5.
I never expected our next manager to just walk in to the job and be great as following fergy was always going to be hard, again I and others argued this smooth transition talk was rubbish.
I think the club will be well aware of this, I think they and fergy understand the size of the job and as I said in my OP I agree with the ed on this

Red man Sydney I stand by all my above posts I think it is to early to judge and there is FAR FAR more to our current form than the players don't like the manager or its solely down to the manager.

I have always said this will be a difficult season I wouldn't of had moyes as manager as I don't like his style of football but IMO it is to early to judge him as I think it is a bigger job taking over from fergy and improving this squad than one season.

Only time will if moyes can be successful but I will judge him on next season.
I hope we as a club don't go down the instant success or sack the manager route .
Fergy picked moyes I hope the great man was right

19.) 27 Feb 2014
Syd, my own opinion is that Rene is a coach, not a manager. A very good coach, but a coach nonetheless.

I know he's not been blessed with good fortune in his fledgling managerial career, but he just doesn't strike me as a leader of men.

Personally, I don't think we'd be any better off than we are now.

ps. Jose wasn't an option, no matter how many times his name is brought up!

20.) 27 Feb 2014
That was my post not sure what happened thought I was logged in

21.) 27 Feb 2014
Jred, I am not talking about SAF retiring, of course that was always going to happen, but it should have been planned better and if that meant retiring a year or two earlier then that should have happened.

StevieK, Jose was an example I was using. I was also using Rene as an example. Neither would I have chosen to be manager. IMO there is no difference in us going for someone like Pulis. He's done no worse than Moyes in his career.

I will of course stand by Moyes and hope he proves the majority of MU fans wrong, but my gut says he's not the man for the job.

22.) 27 Feb 2014
Sydney
I think when ever he retired it was going to be an issue.
Look what happened when he announced his retirement last time.

23.) 27 Feb 2014
That is very true. We struggled mentally then too didn't we. Hopefully this is a bedding in season and with a clear out in the summer and a lot of new faces, things will change. I just hope we get the players we want as one thing I do trust Moyes with is wanting the best players. I think us looking at Vidal, Shaw and Mata proves that.

24.) 27 Feb 2014
Oh please, Syd. Are you seriously telling me that you'd just as much enjoy watching Stoke under Pulis, as Everton under Moyes?